AskMe Noise

August 13, 2008 10:25 AM

Stop breaking the rules! Do not post a comment if you don't have an answer or are helping to look for one. That the asker is breaking the rules isn't an excuse.

It's not like it's new people who don't know the rules either. The question is full of longtime posters who I recognize and respect.

I don't keep tabs on all questions that this happens in, but I remember this one off the top of my head.

Sometimes we get a question that seems out of place at first, but redeems itself through clarification of the asker or answers from us. If we make a habit of shitting up threads we find unworthy (and let's face it, selling pens is obviously unworthy), then that can drag these questions that are "on the edge" down. It also creates more work for the mods.

I get the urge to post snarks and jokes to AskMe sometimes too, but that's not what it's for.

posted by ODiV to Etiquette/Policy at 10:25 AM (219 comments total)

Yeah wow, I went to lunch for an hour and that thread filled up with lulz. Bleah.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:26 AM on August 13, 2008

Well ODiV,
I kinda think you are comparing two different things here. The pen question was tantamount to spam and it's a fun (I feel at least) little tradition around here to throw a little lightswitch rave in the thread until the mods arrive to delete it, because it's clearly going to be deleted. I think your other example, while it was deleted for being chatfilter, is one where people should have either answered the question or ignored it or flagged it. So can I be half with you?
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:36 AM on August 13, 2008 [9 favorites]

You can take the lulz from my cold dead hands.
posted by Stynxno at 10:39 AM on August 13, 2008 [11 favorites]

Poop!
posted by mds35 at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2008

It's not like the thread requires cleanup because there ARE no useful answers in a spam thread. It just gets deleted and the user gets banned. If no one said ANYTHING in the thread, it would still be the same amount of work for the mods. Why not let us have a bit of fun until they get to it?
posted by desjardins at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2008

I would like a million dollars. Would you like to give it to me?

Would you like to play a game?

George W. Bush: Great President, or THE GREATEST President?

W0rd?
posted by blue_beetle at 10:49 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Stop oppressing me with your thread fascism, man.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:49 AM on August 13, 2008

Oh give me a break!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Yeah wow, I went to lunch for an hour and that thread filled up with lulz

No more lunchtime for you!

Why not let us have a bit of fun until they get to it?

Because that's encouraging that sort of behavior, which isn't a good idea.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:51 AM on August 13, 2008

It just gets deleted and the user gets banned.

I think they're using the playskool hammer on this one, cause the user is still around. I loved that hammer. With the little rack of wooden thingies you could pound down? And of course it was good for a little whack on the heads of nearby kids too. And maybe an adult knee or two.
posted by cashman at 10:53 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Are you the same Brandon Blatcher who got kicked off of Facebook?! You're like a legend man.
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 10:55 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

Sorry. I don't have an answer to this question.
posted by ddaavviidd at 10:57 AM on August 13, 2008

Y'know ODiV, you're right. I flagged it, then made a jokey non-answer, then immediately felt like a knob for having done so. Consider me wearing a virtual hair shirt.
posted by cog_nate at 10:59 AM on August 13, 2008

Please don't be knobs. Being a knob is fun, I know, but please don't.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:04 AM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]

that thread filled up with lulz


So what? Seriously, unsnarkily, so what? It's just going to get nuked.
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:08 AM on August 13, 2008 [3 favorites]

A pre-deleted spam post is liminal. It's very existence is to be celebrated.

It's like hearing distant drums across the savanna.
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2008 [14 favorites]

Is this where I go to complain about stuff?

The cups of yogurt in the grocery store have gotten smaller and now I'm hungry before lunch.
posted by electroboy at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

On the plus side, this Meta ensures that I'll always know where to go for custom wood pens.
posted by jamaro at 11:12 AM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]

When lulz are outlawed only outlaws will lulz.

This is an interesting opportunity to look at MeFi's infamous self-policing. Better done in-thread via lulz, via the flagging system, or here in MeTa? In my opinion, the lulz seemed rather ineffectual; the pen-maker's wife obviously did not catch on to her gaffe after quite a few lulzy 'answers'. Which isn't to say, of course, that lulz in general are a lame site policing tactic, only that they were poorly executed in this particular instance. Public shaming, properly lulzed, is quite effective.
posted by carsonb at 11:13 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

I would like to hear from a mod why lulz-ifying an unequivocally doomed thread is "knob"ish.
posted by everichon at 11:18 AM on August 13, 2008

Public shaming, properly lulzed, is quite effective.

Agreed.

And your mother dresses you funny. Nyah.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:18 AM on August 13, 2008

Are you the same Brandon Blatcher who got kicked off of Facebook?! You're like a legend man.
I'm pretty sure that's not his real name.
posted by Floydd at 11:23 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

Who's dressed?
posted by carsonb at 11:24 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Public shaming, properly lulzed, is quite effective.

Personally I don't like the idea of AskMe turning into 4chan whenever anyone breaks the guidelines. We're better than that, people.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:27 AM on August 13, 2008

HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS
posted by burnmp3s at 11:27 AM on August 13, 2008 [17 favorites]

We're better than that, people.

I would like to better than that, but have not done the right asanas yet. Or something.
posted by everichon at 11:30 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

Look, this is one of those things where we all know it's not allowed and that we shouldn't do it, but we're gonna do it anyway. It's pretty much the same as how people will start whispering in class during a test as soon as the teacher walks out for some reason. They know it's not allowed, they know punishment will be minimal if any at all, and they know they have an excuse to have some stupid fun for a minute in a situation that otherwise is tremendously boring. This obviously does not excuse the behavior, but in the end it's just one of those unavoidable facts of life. You'll be happier if you think of them as being "young at heart" rather than "immature" and just move along. At least, I hope that would make you happier.
posted by shmegegge at 11:42 AM on August 13, 2008

Meh. I enjoy snark, and snarking, lulz, and lulzing in the right cicrumstance. I see no problem with the 1st thread linked. If you do, well, that's one opinion, and while I certainly understand your feelings about it, I just don't happen to agree.

I, for one, am not going to ignore a similar thread because it's the "rational" thing to do. If I'm in a silly mood and feel like (IMO) harmlessly lulzing, I am certainly going to do it. It's not like the post itself was a honest, serious question.

Of course, those are my feelings currently, and I am open to reevaluating my position should someone provide a compelling point regarding this. I guess I just don't see the harm in having a little fun in this current environment, and I don't really see this as the beginning of a slippery slope into snarklulz madness either, so... Meh....
posted by Debaser626 at 11:50 AM on August 13, 2008

Meh.

Ughhh.

EUGHHHHHH.

AAAAAAaaaaaaa!!
posted by katillathehun at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2008

Not to further lower the tone, but i totally read the question as saying 'custom made penis' and nearly blew an o-ring laughing. Incidentally, had i got in early enough, i would have flagged and then lulz'd, in the order named.
posted by Jofus at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2008

Personally I don't like the idea of AskMe turning into 4chan whenever anyone breaks the guidelines.

I saw no mention of mudkips.

I fall in the it's tradition camp. I don't see that it hurts when it's clear that the post is doomed--although I do see the danger of burying an otherwise useful post if the snark appears to early.

It was more fun when there were pictures. /offamahlawn
posted by elfgirl at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2008

"Is this where I go to complain about stuff?

The cups of yogurt in the grocery store have gotten smaller and now I'm hungry before lunch."

Ewww, yogurt. I'd say you're lucky they're getting smaller.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:02 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

I have a plugin that reads me every ask question in the voice of Morgan Freeman. His even-handed delivery keeps me from posting jokey answers when the thread is obviously deserving of the lulz.

Plus, it's hilarious when it's a relationship question.
posted by drezdn at 12:03 PM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

I totally agree with your point.

But I think that linking to two questions deleted for breaking guidelines is not really a great way to illustrate it.
posted by desuetude at 12:06 PM on August 13, 2008

i drink my milkshake and then i drink your milkshake. sfw.
posted by poppo at 12:07 PM on August 13, 2008

I would like to hear from a mod why lulz-ifying an unequivocally doomed thread is "knob"ish.

Because, first of all, doomed thread or not it's against the guidelines to go lulz-ifying in AskMe. Check the FAQ; the bit about "...unless the askme is totally bonkers in which case, fuck it, GO NUTS!!!" was not omitted by accident.

And because, secondly, people are sometimes wrong about whether or not a thread is unequivocally doomed. And one person wrong, early, can sell the wrong idea well enough that the wrong snowballs into not just one jerky comment but a dozen or a hundred.

And the general cultural acceptance of HA HA DOOMED THREAD comments in apparently genuinely doomed threads can end up leaking out into borderline things, making the scenario in the above paragraph more likely. And it does happen, and it sucks.

So was the pen thread doomed? Yes. Even, yes, unequivocally, in this case. I don't think anybody can be accused of jumping the gun on that one in their lulzifying. So then, they were perfectly right in the analysis of the thread which led to them acting like knobs.

Start a Metatalk if you must. Flag. Send us an email. Giggle about it in IRC or IM or mefimail, whatever. None of those involve explicitly chucking aside the AskMe guidelines. That's pretty straightforward stuff.

We're not going to hang anybody for giggling in a doomed askme thread, but it's still acting like a knob when you know better.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:07 PM on August 13, 2008 [9 favorites]

* hangs head, kicks invisible pebble *

Ah well, I guess I now have a use for the Moleskine my sister bought me last year. I will hide my lulz under a bushel in the moleskine.
posted by everichon at 12:14 PM on August 13, 2008

It's like mob justice. It feels good, and it works most of the time, but it makes a real mess if the mob is wrong.
posted by smackfu at 12:17 PM on August 13, 2008

One useful aspect to this thread is that I can keep track of which users are juvenile assholes who think the guidelines on the site are for other people, and which users actually pay attention to what the moderators say.
posted by scrump at 12:19 PM on August 13, 2008

Great. Now not only do I regret participating in the AskMe thread, but also using the word "knob" in front of cortex.

I'm going drinking.
posted by cog_nate at 12:22 PM on August 13, 2008

Tell you what, we'll do a Trans-Atlantic Mild Swear Word Swap. You can have knob. We'll have douchebag.
posted by Jofus at 12:25 PM on August 13, 2008

What, we can't be knobs now? Fine, pass me a fuckin' crumpet.
posted by Mister_A at 12:27 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Scrump, but what about the users who like pineapple on their pizza, shouldn't they be tracked too?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:27 PM on August 13, 2008

You guys want douchebag? I hate that one, it's all yours.

-The Yanks.
posted by Mister_A at 12:27 PM on August 13, 2008

Ah well, I guess I now have a use for the Moleskine my sister bought me last year. I will hide my lulz under a bushel in the moleskine.

Should be perfect, just ask Evan Wright (author of Generation Kill)
posted by shinynewnick at 12:28 PM on August 13, 2008

longtime posters who I recognize and respect.

There's your problem right there.
posted by Dave Faris at 12:35 PM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

Does it help that I was overcome with remorse following my initial comment?

Seriously, I began picturing a retired couple, sort of new to this internet thing, just trying to promote their business in a way they didn't realize wasn't OK.
posted by amro at 12:38 PM on August 13, 2008

One useful aspect to this thread is that I can keep track of which users are juvenile assholes who think the guidelines on the site are for other people, and which users actually pay attention to what the moderators say.
posted by scrump at 3:19 PM on August 13 [+] [!]

Well, I am certainly going to consider what Cortex said in terms of doing a windding in any doomed threads, although I still think there is a time and a place (note me not being in the pen thread), but I have to tell you scrump, I think you got your hall-monitor belt cinched way too tight there amigo.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:44 PM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]

One useful aspect to this thread is that I can keep track of which users are juvenile assholes who think the guidelines on the site are for other people, and which users actually pay attention to what the moderators say.

I refuse to believe someone could possibly be that square.
posted by The Straightener at 12:44 PM on August 13, 2008 [7 favorites]

wingding dammit, a wingding.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:45 PM on August 13, 2008

There's no way they can compete with the likes of Pen Island.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:51 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

d'oh!
posted by porn in the woods at 12:52 PM on August 13, 2008

Well, I flagged this askme, and didn't lulz, so I guess I've learned my lesson.

(is there something in the water today?)
posted by rtha at 1:02 PM on August 13, 2008

but what about the users who like pineapple on their pizza, shouldn't they be tracked too?

Tracked down and given prizes for having truly awesome taste in pizza? Why, yes, that would be a very good idea.

I've been told by my elders that the Pizza Pizza opposite Toronto's erstwhile Rochdale College used to feature all kinds of fruit on its pizza, including not just pineapple, but tangerines and maraschino cherries. I'm sure these menu choices had nothing to do with the vast amounts of non-Italian herbs consumed by Rochdale students.
posted by maudlin at 1:11 PM on August 13, 2008

True or false: What is the difference between lulz and lolz? lolz are funny.
posted by knave at 1:15 PM on August 13, 2008

Stickler...
posted by tybeet at 1:17 PM on August 13, 2008

Tell you what, we'll do a Trans-Atlantic Mild Swear Word Swap. You can have knob. We'll have douchebag.

Ooh. Deal. We'll even throw in 'butthurt'.

(is there something in the water today?)

Gah!
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:21 PM on August 13, 2008

I hope you know that this will go down on your Permanent Record
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:23 PM on August 13, 2008 [6 favorites]

I've been told by my elders that the Pizza Pizza opposite Toronto's erstwhile Rochdale College used to feature all kinds of fruit on its pizza, including not just pineapple, but tangerines and maraschino cherries.

That's just wrong.
posted by Pax at 1:25 PM on August 13, 2008

If you don't like pineapple on your pizza, you don't deserve to live.
posted by Stynxno at 1:38 PM on August 13, 2008

Pineapple as a rule is an abomination.
posted by chiababe at 1:41 PM on August 13, 2008

Pony request! New Metafilter subsite torchesandpitchforks.metafilter.com ( or knob.mefi... or lulz.mefi...) where we get to snark on threads on any other subsite. When a thread is linked from t&p a little link back to the t&p snarkfest shows up just under the tags in the original thread.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:42 PM on August 13, 2008 [7 favorites]

I eyeballkid.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:43 PM on August 13, 2008

I used to be a member of the "I know it's wrong, but it's oh so fun!" camp.

Then I got called out in a deletion reason.

I'm not going to be doing that anymore.
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:47 PM on August 13, 2008

I dunno, cortex. I'd rather the guidelines never feel pedantic than have tidy doomed threads. I'll leave them alone from now on, but accusations of knob-ism are probably uncalled for.
posted by cowbellemoo at 1:51 PM on August 13, 2008

Pineapple as a rule is an abomination.

It is a perfect food. When combined with pizza, you get perfection^2. You can't beat perfection^2.
posted by Stynxno at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2008

accusations of knob-ism are probably uncalled for.

I find it pretty knobbish for what it's worth only because of Cortex's Second Reason

people are sometimes wrong about whether or not a thread is unequivocally doomed. And one person wrong, early, can sell the wrong idea well enough that the wrong snowballs into not just one jerky comment but a dozen or a hundred.

Cleaning those up sucks and I always feel bad for someone who phrased their question in a way that was flawed by easily clean-uppable by us but got overrun by joyous snarking. It's a lot harder to save a thread that's been yukked in, if saving it is what we decide to try to do.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:03 PM on August 13, 2008

Metafilter: overrun by joyous snarking.

Reminds me of Snoopy and Woodstock doing their little dance on top of the remains of a Popsicle Golden Gate Bridge.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:06 PM on August 13, 2008

True or false: What is the difference between lulz and lolz?

Lolz are Present Continuous. Lulz are just Perfect.
posted by hydatius at 2:09 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Why is the poster of that question not banned?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:13 PM on August 13, 2008

Why is the poster of that question not banned?

Because it wasn't vicious scamming, ie posting links and phone numbers to call people at. Maybe just an honest mistake. Then again, maybe the mods forgot to ban it, or maybe I'd just be way too lenient when it comes to the banhammer.
posted by jmd82 at 2:34 PM on August 13, 2008

Those who besmirch the name of the noble Pineapple will have to answer to Ananas.
posted by CKmtl at 2:34 PM on August 13, 2008

Why is the poster of that question not banned?

Hanlon's Razor sometimes guides us toward staying Old Steelhead in favor of just putting someone on extremely thin ice. It was just so damned weird that it's not clear what was going on there, but it sure wasn't shaped like normal drive-by spamming.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:45 PM on August 13, 2008

I hope you know that this will go down on your Permanent Record

Oh yeah well don't get so distressed.

Did I happen to mention that I'm impressed?

You can all just kiss off into the air.
posted by GuyZero at 2:47 PM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

When I view source I can see them <stare>
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:57 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

They're hurting MetaFilter, but I don't mind.
They're hurting MetaFilter. They do it all the time.
posted by team lowkey at 3:01 PM on August 13, 2008

Beaten too it by many, and guilty of having fun in the pen thread and others, but you seriously need to provide much better examples. I know a doomed thread when I see one. Anybody wanna buy any used bike parts?
posted by fixedgear at 3:03 PM on August 13, 2008

it's a fun (I feel at least) little tradition around here to throw a little lightswitch rave in the thread until the mods arrive to delete it

The Cheat is grounded!
posted by adamdschneider at 3:09 PM on August 13, 2008

One useful aspect to this thread is that I can keep track of which users are juvenile assholes who think the guidelines on the site are for other people, and which users actually pay attention to what the moderators say.

See, now I'm worried that people will notice that I didn't lulz in the AskMe thread and assume that it's because I'm not a juvenile asshole and actually pay attention to what the moderators say. Not true. I was just busy.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:16 PM on August 13, 2008 [3 favorites]

you misunderstand the contrapositive.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:25 PM on August 13, 2008

No, he suspects, not unreasonably in my experience, that other people misunderstand the contrapositive.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:32 PM on August 13, 2008

Rochdale, eh? That brings back memories.


Very, very hazy memories.
posted by timeistight at 3:34 PM on August 13, 2008

you misunderstand the contrapositive

Damn. I generally try to accentuate the contrapositive. Eliminate all over the negative. Latch on to the alternative. Don't get caught messing with Mister In-Between in public. It's my code.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:34 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

No, he suspects, not unreasonably in my experience, that other people misunderstand the contrapositive.

Seriously. Even with typical active use, I think there's like an 8% per annum preganancy rate.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:44 PM on August 13, 2008 [6 favorites]

I think there's like an 8% per annum preganancy rate.

i swear to GOD I removed this thread from my activity.....
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Seriously, I began picturing a retired couple, sort of new to this internet thing, just trying to promote their business in a way they didn't realize wasn't OK.

And maybe the husband was just crazy about his custom pens, so the wife decided to see if any MeFi users wanted free custom-made pens to keep him busy? She never did say anything about payment, did she?

Not that I'm seriously defending the thread...
posted by fogster at 3:58 PM on August 13, 2008

Turning pens on a lathe might be the awesomest. You can buy a special lathe for small stuff and you can buy the pen blanks and guts. The blanks come in all different wood and composite materials.

My boy has a bigger lathe and it's all kindsa fun. Chisels and calipers and RPMs and all that.

Maybe the retired gent has an apron and prescription-ground safety glasses. He wears the apron partially so his red tie doesn't get caught in the works and throttle him. He turns a couple pens in the morning and they have lunch. Tuna/chicken/egg salad on toast.

By now, everybody they know has a custom-made pen. There's a pile of them on the workbench too. Three more in the junk drawer. Their niece (to whom they offered yet another pen), suggested that they maybe could sell 'em on the internet. See now, that would also be fun for her too, because she could do the website while he turned out the pens.
posted by stubby phillips at 4:12 PM on August 13, 2008 [6 favorites]

Reads stubby phillips (Canuckistans call them Robertsons, go figure) message, sheds one single tear...
posted by fixedgear at 4:17 PM on August 13, 2008

Now reread it, but replace "pen" with "penis".

It still works, don'tcha think? Plus the website would be more edgy.
posted by stubby phillips at 4:21 PM on August 13, 2008

fixedgear: Wha? Robertson are squares, Phillips are crosses.
posted by CKmtl at 4:26 PM on August 13, 2008

I knew that guy in the AskMe thread was wrong! You are right, Robertson had it first but Phillips took off, sorta like Beta vs. VHS.
posted by fixedgear at 4:31 PM on August 13, 2008

If I had 5 bux, my sock puppet would be the Dread Pirate Robertson
posted by stubby phillips at 4:41 PM on August 13, 2008

Pineapple as a rule is an abomination

I love pineapple on my pizza and I get my pizzas without cheese. I usually get looked at like there's something wrong with me, but fuck it, it's good as shit. A little tomato sauce, spinach, basil, tomato and pineapple equals perfection.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 4:41 PM on August 13, 2008

Seriously. Even with typical active use, I think there's like an 8% per annum preganancy rate.

It goes down to 2% if you never write the word "antibiotic."
posted by grapefruitmoon at 4:48 PM on August 13, 2008

I was not wrong! Well, OK, I guess Robertson didn't invent the better screw first, but Robertsons are way better than Philips screws anytime! You stick it on the screwdriver and it stays there! Robertson rules!
posted by GuyZero at 4:58 PM on August 13, 2008

And you did not just compare the Robertson screw to BetaMax! You better watch your back in Rona buddy!
posted by GuyZero at 4:59 PM on August 13, 2008

I get my pizzas circular toasted bread product without cheese.

I'm sure that's what you meant.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:11 PM on August 13, 2008

Sorry, GuyZero. What I mean to say was Blu-Ray...
posted by fixedgear at 5:35 PM on August 13, 2008

Guy, they have these things called magnets now.

[NOTveryPHILLIPS-IST]
posted by stubby phillips at 5:55 PM on August 13, 2008

Pineapple on pizza, yes, it is glorious. But do we have a Canadian bacon / no Canadian bacon schism? (I'm choosing to ignore MaryDellamorte, because there's something wrong with her.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2008

Pineapple on pizza, yes, it is glorious.

you must be from the west coast and ignorant about pizza. otherwise, I will sharpen my icepick for an impromptu lobotomy.
posted by jonmc at 6:24 PM on August 13, 2008

I am not from the West Coast, am not ignorant about pizza, and lived in Queens for years and years so pffft to you and your icepick. I'm with Marcella Hazan: "Pizza is made for improvisation and brooks no dogmas about its toppings." -- Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking (Knopf, 2001).
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:30 PM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]

Well, I'm old school. Sausage, pepperoni, bacon and extra cheese, with lots of garlic and oregano. and I believe that if you can't fold it and eat it while walking down the street, it ain't pizza. But nver the twain shall meet...
posted by jonmc at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Pancetta and pineapple pizza, if only for the alliteration.
posted by BrotherCaine at 6:38 PM on August 13, 2008

That pen business is so cute to me for some reason. It made my day brighter knowing that's been out there since 1985. And now they have a site!!! Cross-like pens. Warm fuzzies, Jean.
posted by sweetkid at 6:40 PM on August 13, 2008

Pancetta and pineapple pizza, if only for the alliteration.

no peppers? Puh-leeze!
posted by jonmc at 6:41 PM on August 13, 2008

Sausage and onions you fucking waterheads. Goddamn sausage and onions, Jesus wept. And I'm not even half a ginzo like Jon. The fuck?
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:19 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

actually, my dear wino, I will admit to a fondness for clam pizza, but that my be an exception to the old-school rule.
posted by jonmc at 7:24 PM on August 13, 2008

We call it sausage and pepps (it includes onions, too) but it goes on a roll. A real roll, not some fucking hot dog bun.

Pizza does not include pineapple, which is a fine fruit all by itself. Pizza has sauce, cheese and basil. Full stop.
posted by fixedgear at 7:24 PM on August 13, 2008

Can we at least agree that whoever first sliced up and put pepperoni on a pizza (and then somehow managed to convince so many people that it was a normal and even acceptable thing to do) should be hunted down and shot?
posted by yhbc at 7:28 PM on August 13, 2008

The perfectly delicious meeting of hot and cool, dry and juicy, tender and crunchy, sweet and spicy and sticky and smooth.

Pineapple on pizza: practically pornographic.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:35 PM on August 13, 2008

No. Pepperoni pizza is a fine slice, although by no means the best.
posted by jonmc at 7:36 PM on August 13, 2008

actually, my dear wino, I will admit to a fondness for clam pizza

clam pizza is dope, I had a mussel and fennel pizza that was amazing.


I think a pizza can be whatever the person ordering wants it to be, within the limits of human capacity. I've rocked many an odd pizza in my time. I'm just saying sausage and onions is the solution to the pizza question. The onions all sweet and pungent, the sausage crumbled with a little oregano, some proper sauce and cheese, Mother Mary, I'm hungry right now and I've already yelled at the one decent pizza place within walking distance today. It's hard to be me sometimes.

On preview:

Really Commish?

Pepperoni is plenty good, if often the only dressed up slice in the window after a long day. Pepperoni did you wrong somewhere?

Sorry if I don't respond, I'm off to get a slice now.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:41 PM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

Once a week, my boss orders us a sausage pie from this place. This (along with the fact that he bought me a liter of jameson for Xmas) is one reason that, despite the fact that he's a grumpy bastard, he is still a good boss.
posted by jonmc at 7:46 PM on August 13, 2008

No, no, no. Pepperoni adds nothing but salt and grease to a slice of pizza. If you want meat, use sausage (crumbled, not sliced) which adds both texture and flavor. If you want salt, use hot pepper instead. There's already plenty of cheese on there to deliver the salt.
posted by yhbc at 7:46 PM on August 13, 2008

Plus, the sheer ubiquitousness of pepperoni is annoying. Why did that salty little meat stick become the de facto pizza topping?!?

I bet there were some payoffs involved, and maybe a hit or two.
posted by yhbc at 7:48 PM on August 13, 2008

and I know pizza. That slice is from Lombardi's, the best in NYC.
posted by jonmc at 7:50 PM on August 13, 2008

We call it sausage and pepps (it includes onions, too) but it goes on a roll. A real roll, not some fucking hot dog bun.

Oh, I'm also super down with a sausage and peppers, fixedgear, no fear, I roll on a street fair with at least enough cash for two of them, without question.

Now I'm really going, maybe the pizza dudes won't remember I shouted "Does anyone work here?" after standing around for five minutes while they watched tv today. If I don't post to Mefi in the next 24 hours tell everyone I loved them.

pps. Fair enough commish.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:52 PM on August 13, 2008

I don't know. The taco pizza -- with the tomato sauce, cheese, and ground beef cooked on, then cold lettuce, tomato, salsa, more cheese, and sour cream on top -- is awesome.

For the first half hour. Then it fucking sucks.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:57 PM on August 13, 2008

However, I am currently recovering from a minor bout of food poisoning from my weekend salami, black olive, and shrimp pizza, so who am I to say.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:59 PM on August 13, 2008

...whoever first sliced up and put pepperoni on a pizza... should be hunted down and shot...

DON'T FEED THE TROLL


any delightful peps
posted by popechunk at 8:05 PM on August 13, 2008

Now I'm hungry, dammit.

Discretion in your digression, please.

Extra cheese is a thing of evil.
posted by elfgirl at 8:29 PM on August 13, 2008

We had a triple extra cheese dare pizza in college called the Star Trek V special.

I don't know what the hell that was about.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:26 PM on August 13, 2008

Also, don't be dissing west coast pizza. The worst pizza I ever had was on the east coast at Rutgers University. It was broccoli and motherfucking velveeta, 15 years later and I'm still feeling the hate and disgust.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:29 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Also, am I the only one here whose favorite pizza topping is sliced tomato? It seems redundant but it's so ridiculously delicious.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:19 PM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Pizzicato used to make this great fucking "Mediterranean" pie that was like a pesto and hummus base and a bunch of good stuff on top. I can't remember the details—it's been a few years since they stopped making it—but that pizza was the fucking bomb.

It wouldn't last five minutes in an old-fashioned pizza-measuring contest, of course, but fuck that noise. It was great goddam eats.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:27 PM on August 13, 2008

I spent the whole day riding rollercoasters and I'm still sad I missed this thread.
posted by Kwine at 11:48 PM on August 13, 2008

No, no, no. Pepperoni adds nothing but salt and grease to a slice of pizza.

And your point is?

crunchy crispy greasy!
posted by lysdexic at 12:08 AM on August 14, 2008

A pizza is not worthy of eating unless you replace the cheese with Vegemite.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:10 AM on August 14, 2008

In some seriousness, tho, is there an easy way to kill all the comments, give the poopers a multi-hour timeout, and just have the deleted post and deletion reason left?
posted by lysdexic at 12:15 AM on August 14, 2008

Now I'm all hungry and I'm still up so I have to make an emergency pizza. And the sauce went bad, so I'm using ketchup. Ketchup!
posted by lysdexic at 12:19 AM on August 14, 2008

Dude, you're lysdexic about spelling. You don't get to be lysdexic about food.

You're going to Hell, son.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:44 AM on August 14, 2008

That the asker is breaking the rules isn't an excuse.

Wrong
posted by caddis at 2:02 AM on August 14, 2008

You want an unforgettable pizza? Linguisa and phillips bits.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:30 AM on August 14, 2008

That the asker is breaking the rules isn't an excuse.

Wrong

Errrrrrrrrr... per the guidelines and two of the mods, actually, it really isn't an excuse.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:55 AM on August 14, 2008

You don't get to be lysdexic about food.

Oh, how I wish it were true - the definition of a learning disability is that it pervades most if not all aspects of your life.

root%> man ep

NAME

ep - emergency pizza

SYNOPSIS

ep -b[ase]=basetype [-s[auce]] | [-c[eese] | -t[oppings]=topping1,topping2,...topping9]

DESCRIPTION

Emergency pizza is a program intended to recharge the system operations unit until it can be safely put into sleep mode, or until it can be connected to a reliable power source. This program is extremely flexible, almost to the point of danger, so proceed with caution.

OPTIONS

-b[ase] This option is required. Basetype can be any kind of fully cooked flatbread (tortilla, premade pizza crust, etc.) or even regular bread, provided it is no thicker than 3/4". Uncooked base will result in the return of a soggy mess.

-s[auce] is optional, but recommended for safety reasons, as it tends to keep the cheese from burning to an inedible lump of coal. If the sauce type is cheese based, the -c option may be omitted. Good results using the -c option without the -s option have been obtained with thick regular bread (see -b option above for restrictions).

-c[heese] assumes shredded mozzarella. The next version will accommodate perversions such as cheddar, monterey jack, and asadero. This option is required if the -s option is not used.

-t[oppings] are optional, type unlimited, amounts assumed to be 15-20 pieces. The upper limit is 9 distinct toppings. If more are required, see sw(3).

CONFIGURATION FILES

None.

SEE ALSO

ov(1), fire(2), sw(3), dominoes(3)
posted by lysdexic at 5:15 AM on August 14, 2008 [6 favorites]

get off my lawn!
posted by krautland at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2008

You don't get to be lysdexic about food.

But if you are, just remember to keep carp off your menu.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:37 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Square pizza with crispy shreds of potato, wrapped in paper and eaten walking around.
posted by Pax at 5:53 AM on August 14, 2008

Oh man, don't get me thinking about the crappiness of the pizza at Rutgers, BrotherCaine. The Fat Cat sandwich culture around there has migrated over to pizzas, so all the pizza places have got it into their minds that the dumber the topping, the better (for the uninitiated, a Fat Cat is a local sandwich you can get pretty much anywhere in town, stuffed with chicken fingers, mozzarella sticks, french fries, and pretty much every other greasy fried food you might find at a burger shack). The worst offender is Jerusalem Pizza in Highland Park. I had a slice there with toppings: french fries and penne.
posted by painquale at 6:12 AM on August 14, 2008

Philly's pizza scene is garbage for the most part, we had a Lombardi's outpost for a minute that was a reasonable facsimile of the original but it closed up shop, probably because your average Philadelphian wouldn't know what a good slice of pizza looks like if it bit them on the dick. The one contribution we've made, which is definitely unorthodox but I feel deserves to be reasoned with by the serious pizza connoisseur, is the tomato pie style pizza where the sauce goes over the cheese. I know, you're like, that's fucking insane! I was skeptical myself, but it works. It looks like this, and is totally delicious. That bad boy is from Pica's in Upper Dirty, they moved their shop there from West Philly in the '50s, which was good for my grandparents who had a competing pizzeria making this same style of pizza on the next block over. My mom used to make pies like that, using my grandmother's recipe, but it's a seriously labor intensive process and it's probably been 10 years since the last time she did, which is a real shame.

There's another place in the Northeast called Tony's Tomato Pies that makes a killer pizza like this, it's a real hole in the wall joint on Frankford Avenue but is worth going out of the way for its special ambiance; lots of bad neck tattoos and missing teeth, if you're lucky a domestic dispute might spill out onto a neighboring lawn while you walk to your car.
posted by The Straightener at 6:38 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

I agree, Philly is no pizza heaven, but anything beats Washington, DC (except for jumbo slice, only to be consumed after 2 am and after drinking 100 beers).

I do not believe your reverse pizza tales and do not care to go to Upper Dirty, Straightener.
posted by Pax at 6:41 AM on August 14, 2008

No love for St. Louis-style?

No? Good. It's vile.
posted by cog_nate at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

I do not believe your reverse pizza tales and do not care to go to Upper Dirty, Straightener.

I'm tellin' ya, man, that's a box full of win right there, you've got to suspend disbelief. I wasn't even allowed to eat at Pica's until two years ago, there was like a family curse and shit, like if you ate the competition it was a mortal sin even though my grandmother's been dead for twenty years and the pizzeria closed in the mid-'70s. So, believe me, I went in full of doubt and a lingering fear that zombie grandmom would claw her way out of the ground and beat me with the wooden spoon (she was buried with it in the pocket of her favorite apron) but after a couple slices I had no doubt that this was a force to be reckoned with.
posted by The Straightener at 6:54 AM on August 14, 2008 [3 favorites]

Listen, some things are meant to be enjoyed in a pure and simple form. Pizza is one of those things. It is not meant to be combined with weird stuff like pineapple, although I do love pineapple. Some things just don't go together, like river-rafting and needlepoint.
posted by Mister_A at 6:56 AM on August 14, 2008

Hey now, for Philly pizza, Francoluigi's (13th and Tasker) does a good job on the basic pies, and they also have yummy white pies with broccoli rabe and stuff. Also, don't forget Gianfranco's Pizza Rustica (South Philly and Old City). Finally, the place next to the Khyber (Margherita? Something like that) ain't bad, if it's still there.

But yeah, Philly pizza scene isn't that amazing overall.
posted by Mister_A at 7:01 AM on August 14, 2008

I'm tellin' ya, man, that's a box full of win right there, you've got to suspend disbelief.

Ok...Upper Darby, here I come.
posted by Pax at 7:08 AM on August 14, 2008

No love for St. Louis-style?

No? Good. It's vile.

You're a God damned philistine, that's what you are.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:38 AM on August 14, 2008

Arguing about WHO makes the best pizza: Fine by me.
Arguing about WHAT makes the best pizza: Less so.

Arguing that any topping is essential, or prohibited, or for plebeians, or what have you, is generally not a productive conversation. This is probably the most important thing I've learned in my first year in Chicago. Here, the conversation about how Chicago hot dogs are the only "real" hot dog is pretty much my cue to exit the room. I think it's great that the people of Chicago like to dump a whole bunch of crap on their hot dogs and force you to eat it sideways. It's spectacular that this is the identity these folks have created for themselves.

But listen: If I want to put just ketchup, mustard, onions, and relish on my dog, that's my business and mine alone. If I want to throw it into a cup of ice and dump espresso all over it, you should provide me what I need with a smile, not with a dick punch. Trying to force me, even politely, into putting a whole slice of tomato, a pickle, and celery salt into my dog is just wrong.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:47 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Sometimes I feel like a traitor to my city, because I despise deep dish pizza. That shit is hideous.

I do not believe in crunchy pizza crusts. That's just Wrong.

Lastly, should pizza be cut up into little squares or slices? I don't care either but am amazed at the number of people who do.
posted by nooneyouknow at 7:56 AM on August 14, 2008

Let's keep the discussion to pizza, please. This thread may not stay open long enough to cover hot dogs as well.
posted by yhbc at 8:21 AM on August 14, 2008

SpiffyRob, while I appreciate your sentiment, you are completely wrong. There is empirical evidence that pineapple should never go on pizza. View this pie chart and repent!
posted by Mister_A at 8:42 AM on August 14, 2008

Hey now, for Philly pizza, Francoluigi's (13th and Tasker) does a good job on the basic pies, and they also have yummy white pies with broccoli rabe and stuff. Also, don't forget Gianfranco's Pizza Rustica (South Philly and Old City). Finally, the place next to the Khyber (Margherita? Something like that) ain't bad, if it's still there.

Francoluigi's is my delivery-pizza, but for a Soufilly evening out, it's all about Marra's. With eggplant and prosciutto. Slice is a nice addition to my neighborhood with their super-thin crusts, but they're pretty overpriced.

Mister_A, that joint is still there (for pre- or aprés-Khyber hunger) but Soho on Market Street is better pizza, I think, if you can fight your way through the hordes of annoying people on Second Street. While in in Old City, I also prefer Gianfranco, though. (Who also took over the old Michael's Pizza joint on 11th and Locust and another spot way down on South Broad.)

Straightener, what's your take on the infamous Tacconelli's?
posted by desuetude at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2008

But do we have a Canadian bacon / no Canadian bacon schism? (I'm choosing to ignore MaryDellamorte, because there's something wrong with her.)

Surrender her pronto, or we'll level Toronto.
posted by ersatz at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2008

This thread may not stay open long enough to cover hot dogs as well.

How about hot dog pizza?
posted by cog_nate at 8:49 AM on August 14, 2008

I've honestly never been through the Tacconelli's routine, the whole thing is just too involved for me, but I'll second Marra's as the best traditional Soufilly pizza experience.
posted by The Straightener at 8:58 AM on August 14, 2008

Tomato pies! We get 'em for the BCP Century, we've been serving them for years and it sorta became our trademark for after the ride food.

Taconelli's is over-rated (IMHO).

Maybe I'll have a MeFi meet-up at my house and we can make pizza, it's simple and just as good as what you can buy, though I don't have a wood-burning oven.
posted by fixedgear at 9:01 AM on August 14, 2008

I apologize for the momentary derail. I have no desire to start a hot dog discussion, I simply brought it up to illustrate my point.

Back to pizza. Glaring scientific evidence (as provided by Mister_A) and general sense of good taste aside, I can't mount a reasonable argument for keeping any topping off of a pizza. I would never let any fruit touch my slice, and the list of veggies is short and stinky, but I would never begrudge another for their preferences.

Next question: 'roni goes on top of the cheese, or between sauce and cheese?

Side question: Which toppings are actually better if they're put on after the pizza is fired?
posted by SpiffyRob at 9:22 AM on August 14, 2008

Topped with Spinach, Egg Plant, Cauliflower, Ginger, Garlic, Green Onions, Cilantro, Lamb, Tandoori Chicken & Prawns.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2008

Toppings better post fire:
Spinach, Basil, Arugula, Oregano (fresh). Rosemary is iffy. Basically anything that would burn on top of the cheese, but be too watery under the cheese. Fresh tomatoes occasionally fall into this category depending on pizza type and cooking duration.

The way around this is to pre-saute and/or crush said ingredients and then put them under the cheese blanket.

Better to put the pepperoni under the cheese than burn it to a crisp, but any pizza whose pepperoni is being burnt is constructed badly or is being cooked at the wrong temperature.

Also, I don't get deep dish pizza. Mind you, I'll eat it, but it might as well be on an english muffin or foccaccia slab. It's not really pizza in my book. Pizza crust has developed glutens.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:33 AM on August 14, 2008

So to clarify my above statement, pepperoni on top of cheese always.

Oh, and jalapenos are best transecting the cheese layer, not on top, not below.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:36 AM on August 14, 2008

Topped with Spinach, Egg Plant, Cauliflower, Ginger, Garlic, Green Onions, Cilantro, Lamb, Tandoori Chicken & Prawns.

Jesus that sounds good. Do they deliver to Connecticut?
posted by Kinbote at 9:37 AM on August 14, 2008

Pizza
posted by fixedgear at 9:47 AM on August 14, 2008

Indian pizza. It is delicious.
posted by rtha at 9:51 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Maybe I'll have a MeFi meet-up at my house and we can make pizza, it's simple and just as good as what you can buy, though I don't have a wood-burning oven.

Fabulous idea. Sign me up.

Got a grill? (Or is that too fancy foodie "I read it in the NYTimes" for we Philadelphians?)
posted by desuetude at 10:08 AM on August 14, 2008

Personally, I've never liked pepperoni under the cheese, but I think it has the potential to be better than on top.

The trick lies in making sure that your cheese layer is thin and stringy enough for you to be able to assess the pepperoni situation that lies beneath, and also not overdoing it on the amount of pepperoni. The main gripe I have with under-the-cheese is that it can (and does) get unwieldy in a hurry if these guidelines aren't followed.

That said, I actually enjoy when a pizza is fired just so, and the roni has a bit of browning on the edges without drawing out too much moisture or otherwise singeing the pie.
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2008

Oh yes, a little bit of crispy on the 'roni is indeed heavenly.
posted by Mister_A at 10:47 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Of course we have a grill, but I'm a cowboy charcoal guy.
posted by fixedgear at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2008

So what do Mefites think of white pizza (my personal favorite)--pizza with pesto or a white garlic sauce instead of tomato sauce?

I've had them topped a number of different ways, mostly roasted garlic and basil, but by the gods are they yummy. (Best done as thin crust--IMO, YMMV.)
posted by elfgirl at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2008

Toppings need to go on TOP, especially pepperoni, so its edges get all crispy. Pepperoni adds nothing to pizza if it's not crispy salty on top.

Deep dish pizza is a casserole. As far as cassoroles go, I've had worse, but who eats cassaroles if they don't have to?

My favorite pizza while I was delivering pizza was ranch dressing + pesto sauce (or tomato sauce), mozzerella, mushrooms, onions, & shrimp- cooked til crispy.

Lately it's sausage, mushrooms, anchovies, and green onions (put on after). It has to be good sausage, though.

I'm 36. It's taken me this long to accept that pineapple and ham pizza eaters are not, in fact, lesser beings. They might have a big flaw, but then, don't we all?

Also, if I contemplate ham and pineapple pizza not as an entre but as a weird focaccia or hors d'oeurve it bothers me less.
posted by small_ruminant at 11:17 AM on August 14, 2008

Of course we have a grill, but I'm a cowboy charcoal guy.

Oh, me too. (Note: not a guy.) Doesn't charcoal-grilled pizza sound wonderful?
posted by desuetude at 11:23 AM on August 14, 2008

So what do Mefites think of white pizza (my personal favorite)--pizza with pesto or a white garlic sauce instead of tomato sauce?

We love it.
posted by Pax at 11:41 AM on August 14, 2008

White pizza with spinach and roasted garlic? No, wait, broccoli rabe and garlic. We usually use pesto as a base layer, and then chopped tomatoes or cherry/grape tomatoes cut in half in lieu of sauce.

We have made pizza on the grill, and it was great. First we took some rosemary and skewered some shrimp and grilled them up. Then we topped the pizza with them.

This is killing me, BTW.
posted by fixedgear at 12:35 PM on August 14, 2008

fixedgear: "This is killing me, BTW."

What an strikingly nonchalant attitude towards your impending demise. You will be missed, and I can only hope to display as much courage and stoicism when my time comes. Might I suggest, though, that perhaps you try an alternative pizza topping, if in fact the shrimp are killing you? It does appear that many people get very defensive about their preferred pizza preparation, but I fear you're taking your zeal a little too far if you are willing to die for it.
posted by team lowkey at 12:48 PM on August 14, 2008

I see your chopped tomatoes and I raise you chopped tomatoes, simmered with a splash of wine. I have so very very much basil growing in my yard in South Philly. Whatever to do?! I have rosemary too, but not as much rosemary as basil. I guess I'll make lots and lots of pesto. Ay me.
posted by desuetude at 12:49 PM on August 14, 2008

I have so very very much basil growing in my yard in South Philly.

I'd love to know your secret. I've never managed to get a basil plant to do more than hold on at about four or five inches tall.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:51 PM on August 14, 2008

It's the lack of shrimp that is killing me. Or this discussion, which is making me hungry.
posted by fixedgear at 12:54 PM on August 14, 2008

Fixedgear, you can get this bee-you-tee-ful wood-fired oven for just under 10K.

middleclasstool, I grow the basil (practically shrubs now) in the same containers as my tomatoes -- they're good companion plants. I use five-gallon paint drums with holes drilled 'round the sides & a couple inches of gravel in the bottom, so the soil gets really good drainage, which keeps the basil extra happy. (Weekly doses of tomato fertilizer don't hurt, I bet.)
posted by desuetude at 1:02 PM on August 14, 2008

...checks penny jar, sobs quietly...

My mom says the secret to basil is to keep pinching the tops so they don't get too leggy. Don't let them flower or go to seed and they will get really bushy.
posted by fixedgear at 1:12 PM on August 14, 2008

Now I gotta keep track of who doesn't like pineapple on their pizza, because those people are bad and wrong and should be avoided at all costs, because they hate America.

Pineapple on pizza is made of awesome.

I mean, I can overlook the juvenile thread-pooping behavior and even wear my hall-monitor pants on my head, but THIS IS PINEAPPLE ON PIZZA JESUS CHRIST WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU FUCKING KNOBS
posted by scrump at 1:28 PM on August 14, 2008

The secret to basil is don't live in Arkansas.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:34 PM on August 14, 2008

Fine words coming from a MINT KILLER.

You know, there are starving children in India who don't have mint juleps.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:37 PM on August 14, 2008

My mom says the secret to basil is to keep pinching the tops so they don't get too leggy. Don't let them flower or go to seed and they will get really bushy

True, though all that "pinching the tops" talk makes it sounds like work. We just call it "picking basil for the pesto or caprese." I now can't imagine a week without a variation on either or both, so I don't know how anyone lets their basil grow undisturbed long enough to flower.
posted by desuetude at 1:40 PM on August 14, 2008

You know, there are starving children in India who don't have mint juleps.

That's because Coca-Cola bought all their water. Don't blame me for your soil and geography problems.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:55 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

So what do Mefites think of white pizza (my personal favorite)--pizza with pesto or a white garlic sauce instead of tomato sauce?

Damn good, though my favorite is sausage. And ham pizza is excellent; it's a staple in Buenos Aires, where they make the best pizza in the world. The best pizza in the U.S. is in New Haven (I am a Pepe's partisan). After New Haven, definitely NYC, and if you want to know where to get it, ask jonmc, 'cause he knows.

Pineapple? No.
posted by languagehat at 2:30 PM on August 14, 2008

Two-boots pizza, basement level of grand central station, ask for the Newman. Sopressata, sweet Italian sausage, ricotta and mozzarella cheese.

Make sure your cardiologist is on speed dial. 3 slices could kill a marathoner.
posted by jenkinsEar at 2:52 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Pineapple? No.

Well, that does it. Now we can never be friends.
posted by scrump at 2:56 PM on August 14, 2008

Some things just don't go together, like river-rafting and needlepoint.

I'm not sure about that.

I mean, they said the same thing about rollercoasters and chess.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:09 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

The tandoor site references DIY wood fired pizza/bread ovens.
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:15 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

The first pizza delivery occurred in 1889 when an Italian restaurant owner was asked to create a special dish for the guest of honor, Queen Margherita Terea Giovanni. He wanted to include the colors of the Italian flag in his dish to honor the queen, so he added tomatoes (red), mozzarella cheese (white), and basil (green) to focaccia bread. The restaurant owner named this meal the Margherita Pizza, using part of the guest of honor's name along with part of the name of his restaurant – Pietro II Pizzaiolo.

But, did dinosaurs eat pizza?
posted by netbros at 3:36 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Pepperoni & Pineapple is how it goes down in my house. (From Upper Crust, if there are any Bostonian pizza snobs lurking around in here.)

Living in Iceland there was a place that offered a "Reykjavík" special pizza: pineapple, pepperoni, black olives, and cream cheese. Way more delicious than it had any right to be.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:55 PM on August 14, 2008

maudlin writes "I've been told by my elders that the Pizza Pizza opposite Toronto's erstwhile Rochdale College used to feature all kinds of fruit on its pizza, including not just pineapple, but tangerines and maraschino cherries. I'm sure these menu choices had nothing to do with the vast amounts of non-Italian herbs consumed by Rochdale students."

I've always wanted to open a pizza place. Not so much because I yearn to own a low profit business but just so I could make weird ass pizza like this on request and then put them on the menu. Like in Cook's wizardry series where the witch orders a Feta, Onion, Anchovy and garlic pizza.

fixedgear writes "Reads stubby phillips (Canuckistans call them Robertsons, go figure)"

Stubby refers to the length of the handle/tang; we have stubby Robertsons too.

UbuRoivas writes "A pizza is not worthy of eating unless you replace the cheese with Vegemite."

See above, the UbuRoivas would have a prominent billing.

Pax writes "except for jumbo slice, only to be consumed after 2 am and after drinking 100 beers"

How do you eat anything after consuming a 100 beer? Oh wait, American beer. Carry on.
posted by Mitheral at 4:24 PM on August 14, 2008

I believe it is time to link to the best pizza site on the internet. Pizzeria reviews are near the bottom. I am dying to try Johnny's and will have to make a road trip out there sometime.
posted by painquale at 4:25 PM on August 14, 2008

Ooh, ooh, Mitheral, can I get a smoked pork and cheddar with blackberry-habenero bbq sauce pizza named after me?
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:30 PM on August 14, 2008

And be sure not to miss his Google Map of the best pizzerias in the world!
posted by painquale at 4:31 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

I've always wanted to open a pizza place. Not so much because I yearn to own a low profit business ...

Flour, water and yeast + heat = gelt. Low profit?
posted by fixedgear at 4:38 PM on August 14, 2008

So what do Mefites think of white pizza (my personal favorite)--pizza with pesto or a white garlic sauce instead of tomato sauce?

Best pizza I've had recently was this:
FIG PROSCIUTTO White pizza with Figs gorgonzola and prosciutto

May sound gross, but it was absolutely delicious, from a local joint. The great thing about them is that they use high quality sliced mozeralla , not that shredded generic crap.

You know, there are starving children in India who don't have mint juleps.

Sorry, needed it for my cereal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on August 14, 2008 [2 favorites]

And be sure not to miss his Google Map of the best pizzerias in the world!

Interesting—he says Modern Apizza is the best in New Haven, and I just had that recommended to me by a NH native. If I get back to the city and manage to resist the siren call of Pepe's, I'll have to try it.
posted by languagehat at 5:24 PM on August 14, 2008

Like in Cook's wizardry series where the witch orders a Feta, Onion, Anchovy and garlic pizza.

This doesn't sound so much 'weird' to me as it does 'delicious, and when are you delivering it to me?'

FIG PROSCIUTTO White pizza with Figs gorgonzola and prosciutto

May sound gross heavenly

FTFY.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 5:26 PM on August 14, 2008

FIG PROSCIUTTO White pizza with Figs gorgonzola and prosciutto

Sounds insanely good, so good that we may have to make this. Salt, sweet, funky bleu...
posted by fixedgear at 5:48 PM on August 14, 2008

And be sure not to miss his Google Map of the best pizzerias in the world!

Where "world" typically means "United States".

To give the guy credit, though, he's clearly spent at least a day in each of London, Naples and some godforsaken corner of New Zealand's North Island, so it would be churlish of me to think that he's talking out of his arse.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:51 PM on August 14, 2008

Salt, sweet, funky bleu

Blue. Blue cheese. Or fromage bleu. 'Bleu cheese' is a nonsense.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:24 PM on August 14, 2008

So are there any good pizzerias in Boston? Any good hot dog places?
posted by Crabby Appleton at 6:37 PM on August 14, 2008

Alright, bilingual country-dweller, fixedgear didn't say "bleu cheese," he just said bleu. Sure, specifying Bleu D'Auvergne or Roquefort would've been a nice clarification, but he didn't make a nonsense.

Sheesh. Sacrebleu!
posted by desuetude at 6:43 PM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Again with the hot dogs?

Actually, however, no. Massachusetts does not do either pizza or hot dogs well at all. Go to Connecticut or New York.

And I say that as a resident Masshole!
posted by yhbc at 6:44 PM on August 14, 2008

I like a traditional East coast slice. It's good. Simple.

But I also like pineapple. There's just something about all the different acids from the sauce, cheese and pineapple.

East coast has given us a lot of great food. The waffle cone, the hot dog, pizza. But only a masochist disses West coast food, pizza or no. Look, man. We have Indian pizza. Do you have any idea how good Indian pizza is? I can't believe it's taken this long for those two tastes to get together. If I ever get my hands on a time machine I'm going to go back in time and make sure India invades Italy. We have Mexican pizza - which is good, but basically a tostada. We even have Californian pizza, piled high with things like a smokey BBQ chicken pizza with BBQ sauce, or mountains of fresh veggies, steamed artichoke hearts. Yeah, you want your greasy plain cheese slice? Ok, we can do that. Chicago or New York, but you really should try the BBQ chicken. It's like the best of all the bar foods all together... on a pizza.

They're all so fucking delicious my mouth is already watering uncontrollably just thinking about them.

And I know you East coasters like some hotdogs, too. You wanna know where to get the best dog in the states? The best hot dog - not a sausage, a braut or a hotlink. A hot dog. It isn't in Coney. The fuck I say? No, I'm telling you. The best hotdog is in LA, and it isn't Pinks, and it sure as hell isn't a Dodgerdog. First, go drinking. Hit up a couple of dive bars. Little Pedros, or Al's maybe. Then after midnight or two AM or so, cruise around under the bridges of the 10 or 110 looking for the nice Latino lady with the shiny hot dog cart. There should be a small line. No line at all is a bad sign, and too long of a line is even worse. Waiting just the right amount is part of the experience, and - this is one of the only time you'll find nearly all classes of native Angelenos actually mingling together outside of their cars, freeways and drive-through everyhing. Mr. Stockbroker with the shiny shoes is bumming a cig off the esse in knee-length white shirt and baggy jean shorts, while a drag queen and a biker thumbwrestle over a doobie. Just don't mingle enough to actually meet someone or exchange more than first names.

You get yourself two or three bacon-wrapped quarter-pounder kosher dogs (yes, bacon-wrapped kosher dogs) fix 'em up whatever way you want. Usually you get a choice of chili, chese, onions, kraut, yellow or spicy mustard, relish, pickles or ketchup. I implore you, get the grilled onions. Slap a pickle spear on there, some spicy mustard. Wash it down with cans of soda. Tell me with a straight face that wasn't the best fucking hot dog you've ever had.


Anyway. I like pizza. I like hotdogs. But I'd chuck both of 'em in the bin for a real Mission burrito. Having roamed SF for a while now I now fully understand there are burritos, and then there are Mission burritos. The burrito in general is a fine thing, but even in SF apparently you can only get Mission burritos in the Mission. I don't know if the gravity is different there or what but the burritos are just more... burrito-like. See, there are burritos and there are MISSION BURRITOS, giant, earthquake-starting, heart-attack causing zepplins of spicy fats and starches.

Any good burrito is something more than beans, rice and cheese loosely wrapped in a soggy, steam-heated flour tortilla. And a wet burrito you eat with a knife and fork is a sad mutant best relegated to vaguely Mexican-American restaurants with generic names like "La Casa" where the rice is a weird orange, and the beans served on flat plates move like soup - yet there's no real sopa on the menu and menudo is outlawed.

Anyway, a Mission burrito isn't actually Mexican food. It's Californian food. It was invented here. A proper Mission burrito is a finely engineered architectural construct designed to be picked and eaten, even with just one hand, even though it's bigger and heavier than the average foot-long sub or poorboy, large enough that even a professional pie-hole stuffer like me can barely finish it, and almost always save about half for later. It's worker's food, eaten standing up or on the move, leaving a free hand for a soda, horchata - or a beer.

The Mission burrito has to integrate and balance a number of difficult food-engineering tasks. A proper super-burrito is about 1-2 pounds of rice, beans, grilled, diced meat and/or veggies, cheese, pico de gallo, guacamole, sour cream and more, layered in a precise order for the ingredients to work with each other. It has to be layered, not mixed and jumbled, so you can nibble on one side for some plain rice and beans, then back to the other side for a little more spicy grilled meat, so the burrito changes a little with every bite. The balance of liquids has to be just right, or else the burrito collapses and falls apart - or provokes too much thirst - and that balance of liquids has to stay balanced even after the left over end of the burrito is wrapped in the remaining foil and put away for later. You should be able to come back to that burrito and find that the tortilla isn't a soggy mess, but the burrito is still succulent and tasty - if not even better as all the layers congealed and set up together. And the filling to tortilla ratio has to be just right. Too much filling and the burrito explodes. Too little filling and the tortilla overwhelms the burrito like one of those doughy little fake frozen burritos, leaving you feeling cheated. When it's just right, the tortilla is tucked and folded along one of the long faces of the burrito to give it just enough structural strength without becoming a doughy wad of tortilla, and as long as you pick it up and gnaw on it upright on one end like you're supposed to, it'll never spill a drop or waste a single crumb of it's burrito-ness.

Still want a slice of pizza or a hot dog? :) I'll take the burrito, thanks.
posted by loquacious at 6:47 PM on August 14, 2008 [7 favorites]

Just out of curiosity, I just looked up Mission Burrito on wikipedia. (San Francisco burrito? Heh.) I swear I didn't read that before writing my burrito diatribe. Structural integrity, indeed.
posted by loquacious at 6:56 PM on August 14, 2008

I was afraid of that. Thanks, yhbc.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 7:35 PM on August 14, 2008

Without question, one cannot even understand a burrito until one eats one in the mission. The east coast/west coast thing is a red herring anyway. Put whatever the fuck you want on your pizza, including pineapple (fucking weirdos) I'll love you anyway. Now I want something wrapped in bacon.

ps, is there anything mefi does better than a proper full on derail? And if so, perhaps there is a lesson there?
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:12 PM on August 14, 2008

East coast/West coast, not that important. However, NYC does have a high concentration of coal fired ovens and people who know how to use them. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of really crappy NYC pizza places bringing the average back down.

Crabby Appleton, I don't know MA, but maybe try Angela's in Saugus, MA and report back to us. Although, I'm irrationally mistrustful of a place that spells Kalamata with a C.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:22 PM on August 14, 2008

Now I want a burrito, goddammit. Thanks a lot, loquacious. And some Indian pizza.
posted by rtha at 9:59 PM on August 14, 2008

If y'all are ever in Mid-MO come on by Shakespeare's Pizza, the best pizza in Missouri.
We make our own dough, sauce, and prep all the ingredients on site. We are also the largest purveyors of Jameson in the state.

My current favorite pizza...basil, tomatos and pepperjack cheese underneath the provolone, then red onion, pepperoni, sausage (we have our own sausage made for us in the Hill in STL, a famous italian enclave) and some jalapenos and pineapple for flavor.

I grew up near St. Louis, and i hate both STL style pizza and Provel Cheese soooo much it hurts. That crap is even less palatable to me than American cheese and that's saying something.
posted by schyler523 at 10:33 PM on August 14, 2008

The problem with Zante's is they're over in Bernal Heights and can't get a pizza to the city center to save their fucking lives. I'm in Union Square; is there anyplace nearby I can get an indian pizza?
posted by ryanrs at 11:35 PM on August 14, 2008

LH is dead-on about Pepe's. Their clam pizza is the stuff of legends.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:57 AM on August 15, 2008

I love it when loquacious lives up to his handle.

I can't get excited about burritos. They're a staple food. (And by burritos I mean Mission style burritos because I was an adult before I figured out there were other kinds. Frozen ones don't count, obviously.) More importantly, one generally gets one's own burrito, so personal preferences have few social implications.

Because pizza is hanging-out-with-friends food, what one likes or doesn't like on it is a matter for negotiation. Hanging out with lovers of pineapple and ham pizza.... well, your whole dining experience is at stake. This is serious business.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:41 AM on August 15, 2008

Small_ruminant, that's why I buy mine by the slice. Not because I have no friends, really.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:52 PM on August 15, 2008

anything beats Washington, DC (except for jumbo slice, only to be consumed after 2 am and after drinking 100 beers).

Not only true for Jumbo Slice (my once-favorite going-out dress has an indelible Jumbo Slice grease stain on it), but also for DC's other pizza institution, Armand's, which is delightful post-bar but otherwise a little weird. Something about it is just off. However, should one need a good-enough pizza in DC, I should note that recently I am somewhat taken with New Citipizza on H Street - decent stuff, and ordering through bullet-proof glass just adds to the charm.

Meanwhile, I can't believe no one in here has bashed Chicago-style deep dish, so let me be the first: that shit is just wrong.
posted by naoko at 6:53 AM on August 17, 2008

Sometimes I feel like a traitor to my city, because I despise deep dish pizza. That shit is hideous.

I do not believe in crunchy pizza crusts. That's just Wrong.

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Also, I don't get deep dish pizza. Mind you, I'll eat it, but it might as well be on an english muffin or foccaccia slab. It's not really pizza in my book. Pizza crust has developed glutens.

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Deep dish pizza is a casserole. As far as cassoroles go, I've had worse, but who eats cassaroles if they don't have to?

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It looks like it's honor has been undefending a bit, so no worries.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:22 AM on August 17, 2008

who eats cassaroles if they don't have to?

I love me some Joy Of Cooking casserole. Grew up on it.
posted by scrump at 11:12 AM on August 18, 2008