I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by facial hair

September 18, 2009 10:14 AM

Why does MetaFilter hate hipsters?

And is the term "douchebag" really an appropriate epithet to be throwing around indiscriminately?

Do hipsters actually exist? It just seems the term works as an all-purpose bugbear or straw man so people can pour out a bunch of vitriol... and use the word "douchebag."

I mean, I know there are actual "hipsters" with facial hair, skinny jeans and fixies, but are they worth yammering about on MetaFilter?

posted by KokuRyu to Etiquette/Policy at 10:14 AM (288 comments total)

I think if you substitute the word "yuppy" for "hipster," you'll have a much clearer understanding of the situation.
posted by one_bean at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

Self loathing.
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2009 [37 favorites]

As a hipster, I can only assume that they are jealous.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2009 [9 favorites]

When will you hipsters learn to link to whatever it is you're referring to in your MetaTalk posts?
posted by amro at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2009

they know what they did.
posted by boo_radley at 10:17 AM on September 18, 2009 [52 favorites]

I realized some time earlier this year that I'm a yuppie hipster. I had an OBE from the shock, and when I returned to my body I found I had special extra sensory powers.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:17 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Man will only be free when the last hipster is strangled to death by the entrails of the last douchebag.
posted by voltairemodern at 10:17 AM on September 18, 2009 [10 favorites]

It ain't just MetaFilter.
posted by yhbc at 10:18 AM on September 18, 2009

I am actually fine with the term "douchebag" as an epithet because everyone hates douchebags; they throw off the pH in your vagina.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:19 AM on September 18, 2009 [51 favorites]

I think that the main source of ire against hipsters is the same resentment that people feel toward whichever ostensibly shallow, pretentious, and overprivileged group of young people that the media seems to be paying too much attention to at any given point in time.

Better that than ragging on someone just because they're overweight, living in a trailer, or from a red state, sez me.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:19 AM on September 18, 2009 [15 favorites]

I sort of just hate everyone. I guess it's unfortunate the hipsters get caught in that net.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:20 AM on September 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

Douchebag is fine as an insult, IMO. Its only purpose is to fix what ain't broke and make you feel bad if you don't; it's an unnecessary and harmful thing.

I Live in the Mission and I derisively call anyone a hipster if they 1) locked their bike to a parking meter in such a way that it impedes foot traffic; 2) take up sidewalk space in front of my favorite neighborhood breakfast place waiting for a table; 3) got their name on the list of said breakfast place before I did.
posted by rtha at 10:24 AM on September 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

I guess hipsters just aren't a problem in the small, wholesome backwater where I live. It's just guys with big Dodge Ram trucks that are the problem.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:27 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

IANAH(OAD) But I assume the poster feels that not all hipsters are douchebags and not all douchebags are hipsters so the phrase hipster-douchebag is actually more specific than either alone.

I am a hater, but I try to let it slide when people here tell me to suck it.
posted by ecurtz at 10:28 AM on September 18, 2009

Bcause they have Ram power?
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:28 AM on September 18, 2009

MetaFilter hates hipster douchebags because hipster douchebags only clean you ironically.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:32 AM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

.
posted by fixedgear at 10:33 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Don't even get me started about hipsters. I had them once, and couldn't even sit. The doctor had to grind them off. Out-patient surgery, but still.
posted by found missing at 10:34 AM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

It's mostly self loathing, which is a powerful thing, particularly when coupled with a defense mechanism often developed in high school by the 90% of all teenagers who are not part of what they consider the "in" crowd: if "they" like it, then it isn't cool. Cool stuff is only cool when I am the only person who has ever heard of it. It is wrenching to watch the rank and file suddenly discover cool stuff only you ever heard of before and the natural response is to announce that all those others are not cool at all and neither is their stuff.

Yuppies are not hipsters. Yuppies are loathsome beings from the past who may still be trotting around in suits with big shoulders; we should be ever vigilant in case they come back en masse.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:34 AM on September 18, 2009 [6 favorites]

they hated me first!
posted by the aloha at 10:35 AM on September 18, 2009

I mean, I know there are actual "hipsters" with facial hair, skinny jeans and fixies, but are they worth yammering about on MetaFilter?

Trick question?
posted by carsonb at 10:36 AM on September 18, 2009

Why does MetaFilter hate hipsters?

It's self-loathing and trendy. Indeed, one must hate hipsters in order to be a true hipster.

And is the term "douchebag" really an appropriate epithet to be throwing around indiscriminately?

It would be inappropriate to be discriminatory in throwing it around.

Do hipsters actually exist?

Yes.

I mean, I know there are actual "hipsters" with facial hair, skinny jeans and fixies, but are they worth yammering about on MetaFilter?

Yammering? Only a hipster would use that word. I hereby call you out, hipster.
posted by The World Famous at 10:38 AM on September 18, 2009

I know more about this than you can possibly imagine.
posted by The Whelk at 10:42 AM on September 18, 2009 [15 favorites]

And I thought I was going to have a boring Friday at work.
posted by desjardins at 10:43 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I am actually fine with the term "douchebag" as an epithet because everyone hates douchebags; they throw off the pH in your vagina.

Yeah, I agree.

I always thought this hipster hate was an extension of all that hippy hate we go through from time to time. We don't like to see people having fun in ways that we don't or can't have fun. It's also why we hate some celebrities.
posted by muddgirl at 10:44 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

We hate hipsters for the same reason people have been hating other people since the dawn of time. They're having more sex than us!
posted by ND¢ at 10:44 AM on September 18, 2009 [5 favorites]

Because the Hipster-Douchebag ticket split the liberal vote in 2000 & again in 2004.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:44 AM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

I thought the hipster was created specifically to be hated.
posted by ODiV at 10:44 AM on September 18, 2009

Why does MetaFilter hate hipsters?

Because the hot hipster girl wearing American Apparel and showing up at my place not only didn't cringe at seeing my XBOX360, but was delighted to let me know that she played Fallout 3 too and have I downloaded the DLCs and she knows these too-cool bars that make all their drinks fresh and play the soundtrack from the Muppets Movie and you don't even have to wait in line because she grabs your hand leads you past the bouncer and there's no drunk frat or sorority assholes running around or too cool, gelled club kids and you think hey I'm kind of enjoying this, it is kind of quirky and you look over and she's making out with the guy from The Drums.
posted by geoff. at 10:46 AM on September 18, 2009 [33 favorites]

And I thought I was going to have a boring Friday at work.

Looks like I got your dose of "boring Friday at work" on top of my own. Merciful Jesus on Rollerskates... such a long day.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:47 AM on September 18, 2009

(You forgot the plate of beans tag.)
posted by i_cola at 10:47 AM on September 18, 2009

Wait, "douchebag" is an epithet? This explains why I lost my job!
posted by DU at 10:49 AM on September 18, 2009

It makes people feel good to make fun of other people, it seems...
posted by Pantengliopoli at 10:50 AM on September 18, 2009

Yuppies are not hipsters.

I don't think it was meant to be that kind of metaphor. More like "you know the people who hated 'yuppies' as a stereotype fed to them out of their teevee but hadn't actually met any real humans who met that definition? those people hate 'hipsters' now."
posted by DU at 10:52 AM on September 18, 2009

It's due to the way they pack their cheeks full of seeds and . . . what, hipsters?

Never mind then.
posted by metagnathous at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Mostly this is why.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2009

Douchebag is fine as an insult, IMO. Its only purpose is to fix what ain't broke and make you feel bad if you don't; it's an unnecessary and harmful thing.

Seconded. Although, I've started to mix it up a bit by finding similar products; "douchenozzle" is one I may start using (same product, just a different part of it) and "cockbib.*"


* This was an actual, 100% real product someone tried to market for a while; it was an actual tiny bib you wore around your penis to keep your scrotum from getting wet during blow jobs. The site seems to be down, which says volumes about how well this idea went over, I think.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2009

I'm pretty sure, at this point, that there is no such thing as an actual hipster. It's a vague derogatory term that has little or no connection to the real world. It's the liberal equivalent of the racial joke -- a largely imaginary group that it's okay to scorn, with the purpose of feeling better about oneself.

"At least", they think, "I'm not like them. I'm obviously superior. "

Never mind that they aren't like "them" either.
posted by Malor at 10:57 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm completely unsurprised that the cockbib site went down.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:01 AM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

I recently called my friend's 14 year-old daughter a hipster. She rolled her eyes and said "I'm not a hipster. I'm a scene kid."

More confused now.
posted by futureisunwritten at 11:02 AM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Oddly enough, hipsters are very fond of the word "douchebag," and use it often.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:03 AM on September 18, 2009

Can I get a grammarian to diagram this sentence: "I hate hipster douchebags." Specifically, what parts of speech are "hipster" and "douchebags"? Adjective and noun? Noun and noun?
posted by DU at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2009

For me at least there is a difference between (male) hipsters and douchebags. From the neck down you might not be able to always tell them apart, but a hipster will have more hair on his head, probably including some on his face in some ridiculous configuration, and will be wearing some big blue blockers or retro sunglasses; a douchebag will have a cleaner hairstyle obviously recently cut, and with some gel to make it sit just right, maybe a 5 o'clock shadow, and be wearing Raybans or some other futuro stupid shades.

These distinctions are important to me.
posted by ericost at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

douche*anything* is a good insult. It's the insult that keeps on giving. douchcanoe, anyone?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2009 [5 favorites]

BTW -- a douchebag, by definition, is anybody wearing a bluetooth earpiece. So, in all actuality, very few hipsters are actually douchebags.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:09 AM on September 18, 2009 [10 favorites]

There's a guy at my work who perpetually has his cuffs unbuttoned and sleeves semi-pushed up (arms akimbo, naturally), plus he's always wearing sunglasses on top of his head even when he's been inside for hours. That guy is a douchebag. But he's probably not under 40, let alone under 30, so he's not a hipster. Hipster != douchebag, QED.
posted by DU at 11:12 AM on September 18, 2009

Hipsters ate my dingo.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:14 AM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Adjective noun, DU.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:17 AM on September 18, 2009

Haven't we covered this pretty recently? I think we've covered this pretty recently. But maybe it got cleaned up. There were some funny posts on the blue that generated some blowback, so some guy posted a thinly veiled question on AskMe about hipster hate in response. Can't find that particular post anymore, though, else I'd link it here. Because this was covered extensively.
posted by empyrean at 11:17 AM on September 18, 2009

I'll see your douchecanoe and raise you douchecattle (for when they're traveling in herds).
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:17 AM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

there's no drunk frat or sorority assholes running around or too cool, gelled club kids

I would like to see a West Side Story-style hipsters vs. guidos dancefight.

Actually, I wouldn't.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:20 AM on September 18, 2009

Haven't we covered this pretty recently?

The sequence is: Steampunk, AskMe callout, Palin, fixie, racist call out, The Proper Use of Faves, hipster, repeat.
posted by DU at 11:25 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Okay, so I'm kind of coming through the hipster fog and seeing things clearly for the first time. I guess you could call me a hipster. I've driven a beat up old Volvo more or less as a fashion statement since I was 17, my first favorite band was Belle and Sebastian, I had bangs and wore a lot of plaid for a while last year, my friends are artists and activists, and everyone asks me if my boyfriends are gay.

At the same time, I have a special place in my black little heart devoted to hating people whose personal style, music taste, and sense of humor very much resemble my own.

The reason?

They're rich motherfuckers who get whatever they want. They didn't develop their quirky interests because the struggle of trying to fit in in high school eventually proved fruitless; they just did whatever they wanted and everyone liked them anyway because their parents had a pool or they invited people on ski trips to Aspen or they could afford to share their weed. And now they're living in two-bedrooms in Williamsburg or Chelsea and working unpaid internships in the arts because they're on trust funds and they don't have to beg people dumber than them for brainless, shit-paying jobs just to make rent and, you know what, just fuck them all.
posted by oinopaponton at 11:30 AM on September 18, 2009 [22 favorites]

The sequence is: Steampunk, AskMe callout, Palin, fixie, racist call out, The Proper Use of Faves, hipster, repeat.

Yeah, let's move on to the steampunk, then. I've always wanted one of those keyboards with the antique brass typewriter treatment. Maybe a leather wrist rest. I wonder if there's enough USB juice to power a little mini steam whistle boiler on the side? Superfluous but satisfying.
posted by empyrean at 11:32 AM on September 18, 2009

Hipsters are to Douchebags what Brooklyn is to the Jersey Shore.

Also, I remain in the 1% of hipsters who will own up to that fact, though I still feel kind of dirty about it.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:35 AM on September 18, 2009 [5 favorites]

You can always clean yourself.
posted by gman at 11:37 AM on September 18, 2009

Some of my best friends are hipsters.
posted by Dumsnill at 11:39 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Why would anyone dislike Lord Buckley?
posted by TedW at 11:45 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's more complicated than it seems: Hipsters cannot self-identify. The phrase "I am a hipster" is akin to "This sentence is false." It's inherently self-contradictory.

No true hipster would ever admit to being one. The corollary is that anyone claiming to be a hipster is actually a douchebag. Not all douchebags will claim to be hipsters, thus adding to the confusion.
posted by mullingitover at 11:48 AM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

> .

Your username is "fixedgear". You're not getting off that easy, boy.
posted by ardgedee at 11:53 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I am over 45, so all of this is totally incomprehensible to me and thus thoroughly irrelevant. Now get offa my damn lawn, the lot of you.
posted by briank at 11:54 AM on September 18, 2009

Metafilter doesn't hate hipsters...

...ok Metafilter does. But look at the bright side: somedays we hate republicans, racists, nazis, people from the EU, people from the US, Acorn, people who don't understand acorn, people who don't like science, creationists, cristians, catholics, atheists, anti-semites, people who don't like gays, emos, punks, people who wish they were punks, posers, skateboarders, people who have televisions, people who improperly spell, people who improperly punctuate, kids, people with babies, people without babie, douchebags, steampunks, furries, people who own real dolls, people who are socialists, people who like George Bush, people who like Sarah Palin, Red States, people who think there is a differene between red states and blue states {gasp for air}.

We also hate people who wear che gavura shirts who don't know who he was, we also hate people who misspelled his name.

We hate people who ride fixies - even though we told you how to make one. We hate people from new york. We hate people from Boston. We hate people from San Francisco. We hate people who aren't from new york. We hate people who aren't from Boston. We hate people who aren't from San Francisco...

We hate people who don't like NPR. We hate people who don't read. We hate people who self link. We hate people who hate. We hate people who make huge lists of all the groups we hate and don't provide links to specific instances.

Really though - we're all about tollerance.


Tollerance and a hard shell - cause sooner or later we will hate a group you identify with
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:54 AM on September 18, 2009 [11 favorites]

I don't think I could ever be accused of being a hipster (unless the definition changes to mean "pudgy, middle-aged, federal employee") but what ever group I happen to possibly be a part of, when that group is vilified, I always assume they are talking about someone else.
posted by The Deej at 11:55 AM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Anyway, every social tribe and market demographic has its haters and worst-case stereotypes. Hipsters are the most prominent target currently, but they're not the only target, and the public's ire will shift elsewhere eventually.
posted by ardgedee at 11:55 AM on September 18, 2009

Back in Vietnam a band of hipsters captured MetaFilter and tortured it.

Now it's back. For revenge.
posted by qvantamon at 11:57 AM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Metafilter hates hypocrisy, and hipster-dom is an ironic form of hypocrisy.

There's a special place in hell for people that exclaim, "Look at me! I don't care if you look at me or not! Isn't that crazy? I want you to look at me and marvel at the fact that I don't care if you look at me or not. Look, dammit! Loooook. I'm actively, deliberately not caring that you're looking or not! Loooook! Look at how I'm rejecting you! I need you to recognize that I'm not needy! Loooook!"
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:59 AM on September 18, 2009 [24 favorites]

Things metafilter hates:
Hipsters
Microsoft
Dan Brown
Republicans
SUVs
WalMart
Christians
McDonalds
Suburbanites
Jocks
Texas (except Austin)
Advertising
Dane Cook
Steampunk
Micheal Bay
Autotune

...what'd I miss?
posted by rocket88 at 12:03 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

People love complaining about other people, and hipsters are a safe, easy target.
posted by orme at 12:04 PM on September 18, 2009

scientology
posted by qvantamon at 12:04 PM on September 18, 2009

...what'd I miss?
Thomas Kinkade, Painter of Light
Declawing cats
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:06 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

We hate people who ride fixies - even though we told you how to make one.

I think this is a pretty good summation of metafilter as a whole really
posted by Think_Long at 12:09 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

we hate steampunk? Damn, we're a bunch of assholes.
posted by Think_Long at 12:10 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wow, a favorites-why-for? thread and a hipster thread are on the same MeTa front page. It's Metatalk Greatest Hits Friday! Let's do a Twitter-hate thread next, followed by another spousing thread. That was a fun one.
posted by EatTheWeak at 12:11 PM on September 18, 2009

A few more:

Creed
Coldplay
Starbucks
Abercrombie & Fitch
posted by smackfu at 12:11 PM on September 18, 2009

Back in Vietnam a band of hipsters captured MetaFilter and tortured it.

You can tell they were hipsters because they all had Asian girlfriends.
posted by qvantamon at 12:14 PM on September 18, 2009 [11 favorites]

People love complaining about other people, and hipsters are a safe, easy target.

This is pretty much it. If you hate, say, longhaired people and say it a lot out loud sooner or later it will come up that one of your best friends actually has long hair and you have to confront the fact that either you hate your friend or you really don't hate long-haired people after all.

Sometimes it's nice, I'm told, to get a good hate-on for someone when you're angry and frustrated and can't yell at your family, co-workers, neighbors, pets or the television. So people make up a sort of moving-target hated class to get frustrated at and the facts shift to suit the frustration. Hipsters are alternatingly rich or poor, cool or uncool, getting laid a lot or ascetic, well-dressed or ridiculous, etc. Few people will actually claim to be hipsters so you're rarely confronted with the awkward "hey man, that hurts my feelings" comeback.

I used to really also dislike the term douchebag, but for some reason I hate it less lately. I still see it as a vaguely anti-lady perjorative, but have realzed that most other people don't see it that way so I may have to just lump it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:20 PM on September 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

No true hipster...

Ahhh, yes. The No True Hipster Fallacy.
posted by god hates math at 12:25 PM on September 18, 2009

I used to think "douche" was anti-lady (because douche goes in the vagina, and vaginas are dirty, so douches are dirty, etc. etc.).

But honestly, it's a great word and douche's are horrible things that no one uses any more, and the whole douching phenomenon was anti-feminist, so using douchebag as an insult just seems natural...

I suppose we could replace them with "enema-bags" if we wanted to be more gender-neutral.
posted by muddgirl at 12:25 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Hi I'm a hipster!

I don't really know why people hate us, but frankly I wish they'd cut it out. It tickles!

Another other questions?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:28 PM on September 18, 2009

Oh in case you want to know what a Hipster is here is a handy definition!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:30 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

When I worked as a moderator for the website of the tween TV channel "The N", all the twelve-year-olds would bicker endlessly about whether the guys in Good Charlotte were posers, and about how it's really spelled "poseur" (only a poseur spells it "poser"). And then they'd accuse each other of being posers, and so on. It really got under my skin after a while, because I realized that this is basically the same pointless conversation that's going on everywhere in the adult world.

The truth is, we all want to be unique, and we all want to be authentic, but there are too many of us, and too few existing niches, and we're constantly exposed to too many other people who want to try the same things we're trying to ever really carve out our own the way we'd like to. It's a veritable funhouse hall-of-mirrors, and honestly the surest way to orient yourself in that situation is to shut your eyes and just feel your way along. Every time you open your eyes, you're surrounded by distorted versions of yourself, doing the same things you're doing. You can either fume about it, or you can just close your eyes again and go back to doing what you've gotta do.

MetaFilter's susceptibility to the hipster fallacy is one of my least favorite things about this place. On one hand, MetaFilter seems to genuinely want to be a very special place for special people who do special things. But at the same time, RAHR YOU ARE NOT A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, JUST IN CASE YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN! You are not original, you are not funny, you are not interesting, you are not welcome. POSER!!
posted by hermitosis at 12:31 PM on September 18, 2009 [26 favorites]

That's a great post but Good Charlotte are huge posers bro.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:33 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Way back in around 2003 or so, I thought "hipster" meant people that liked indie rock music and used it in the context of arguments about music (I used to bother with that) to refer people that would shit on metal (the music) for the simple fact that it was metal. Since then, it's become really unclear what it means, so I stay away from it in non-sarcastic contexts. Also, "indie-rock-snob-looking" people now listen to metal. I guess because Mastodon has beards?

Anyway, Jessamyn has a good point. Perhaps we should start hating Star-Bellied Sneeches instead. Goddamn Star-Bellied jerks listening to Arcade Fire while riding some special kind of bike.
posted by ignignokt at 12:37 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

GRATUITOUS HATE-ONS ARE FUN AND LIKE SNEEZING I CAN DO THEM AT WORK WHY DO YOU PEOPLE HATE MY FUN IT'S LIKE CAN I DO ANYTHING?
posted by everichon at 12:54 PM on September 18, 2009

Oh sweet jesus I hate ""douchebag" because Mr. Llama says it and thusly I am now a forty year old woman who refers to people as "douchebags."

Not. Cool.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:57 PM on September 18, 2009

The [cockbib] site seems to be down, which says volumes about how well this idea went over, I think.

I've heard the Cockbib site goes down all the time!

Domainysterical?
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

GRATUITOUS HATE-ONS ARE FUN AND LIKE SNEEZING

You know, I've heard that a sneeze is supposed to be like one-thirteenth of an orgasm, which always made me wonder .... do you like get a free orgasm with every thirteenth sneeze? I'm also imagining a little song should play, like when you collect 100 coins in Super Mario Brothers.

DO-DA-DA-DO-DA-DO-DOOOOO!
posted by Afroblanco at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Autotune

Unless it's applied to the news. We love it then.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:59 PM on September 18, 2009

Do hipsters actually exist?

You live in Victoria and you have to ask this?
posted by klanawa at 1:00 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Hipsters are modern day dandies. Who likes a dandy?
posted by Arbac at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2009

Hermitosis:

That job sounds like one of the torments of the damned.
posted by The Whelk at 1:03 PM on September 18, 2009

Hipsters are modern day dandies. Who likes a dandy?

Oscar Wilde?
posted by Afroblanco at 1:03 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Charles Baudelaire?
posted by The Whelk at 1:05 PM on September 18, 2009

Because we're no longer twelve years old and we know some real live gay people, so "fag" no longer cuts it as an all-purpose tribalistic Othering insult.
posted by Greg Nog at 1:05 PM on September 18, 2009 [5 favorites]

A Quaintrelle?
posted by The Whelk at 1:06 PM on September 18, 2009

So, this one time, I'm in a CVS with my wife, and a friend of ours, who is a hipster. We're going to rent a movie, so we're looking to buy some chips and salsa to eat while we watch the movie. We're looking at the selection of tortilla chips, when hipster girl grabs a bag and says "these look authentic."

It's the fucking CVS, there are no more or less "authentic" tortilla chips to be had in the store. They're all precisely the same, but for whatever reason, these set off some sort of "authentic" switch in her brain, and thus they were the appropriate chip to get.

While this isn't why I hate hipsters(and I don't hate this girl), I do find this fascinating. It's like the concept of authenticity has become so strongly associated with certain features(i.e. is dirty) that it's lost all connection to the actual property of being authentic, or the reasons why a person would prefer an authentic thing to an inauthentic thing.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:08 PM on September 18, 2009 [21 favorites]

I hate hipsters because I miss being one. I'm too old now. Alas.
posted by dersins at 1:10 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Santitas chips say "Authentica Estilo Mexicano" on them. Maybe aimed at hipsters.
posted by smackfu at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2009

Oscar Wilde

Also persecuted and misunderstood in his time.

"While at Magdalen College, Wilde became particularly well known for his role in the aesthetic and decadent movements. He began wearing his hair long and openly scorning so-called "manly" sports, and began decorating his rooms with peacock feathers, lilies, sunflowers, blue china and other objets d'art.

Legends persist that his behaviour cost him a dunking in the River Cherwell in addition to having his rooms (which still survive as student accommodation at his old college) trashed, but the cult spread among certain segments of society to such an extent that languishing attitudes, "too-too" costumes and aestheticism generally became a recognised pose."

Hmm.
posted by empyrean at 1:14 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Even casual riders of the 4/5/6 or N/Q/R/W are able to tell when the train stops at 14th Street without being able to read or hear.
posted by oaf at 1:17 PM on September 18, 2009

I saw:
Coldplay
Starbucks

And read:
Coldplay
Sucks

The end.
posted by Night_owl at 1:18 PM on September 18, 2009

Don't men generally like vaginas? This being the case, "douchebag" (and especially "douchenozzle") ought to be terms of endearment. Now, "enema bag" seems really insulting, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

For the record I think all these terms are kinda lame, but when in Rome, you often catch yourself doing as the Romans do.
posted by Maximian at 1:20 PM on September 18, 2009

You know most of my friends are hipsters but what bugs me about hipsters is that whole stupid neuveau pauvre thing. I am from a long line of old impecunity myself, and seeing these pretentious twats acting like they have been broke their whole lives just chafes, it really does. They think you can just lack money and it is as simple as that, but they just don't understand.
posted by idiopath at 1:22 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

My theory, such as it is, is that hipsterhate derives from the fact that hipsters take things seriously that people find silly (e.g. collecting garish ties, kickball or 1960s children's cartoons) or things that people feel challenge them morally (e.g. veganism, bicycling or urban gardening).* So they're a conflation of nerds and activists, both of which being classes of people that have drawn ire for thousands of years.

Oh, and irony as a life-stance is something that belonged to generation x, not the current crop of hated-on youth.


*Note: I'm not a vegan, I don't own a bike, I'm no gardener of any sort, I do not wear ties, garish or otherwise and I don't really care much about 1960s children's cartoons but I do like kickball, especially the drunken, becostumed kind).
posted by Kattullus at 1:24 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

> It's like the concept of authenticity has become so strongly associated with certain features(i.e. is dirty) that it's lost all connection to the actual property of being authentic, or the reasons why a person would prefer an authentic thing to an inauthentic thing.

See also rockism. And also the use of "gourmet" to mean "implicitly better than commodity alternatives" or "does not contain factory-made alternatives of certain key products, eg, HFCS rather than cane sugar".

Although at this point, with two or three generations of Americans having been raised on factory-farmed and manufactured food, the mass-produced product, with according compromises and alterations, available in Sassy José's Little Cantina And Bar And Grill (850 locations and growing!), is the authentic product and the totopos offered by some modest little restaurant somewhere seem unsatisfying.
posted by ardgedee at 1:25 PM on September 18, 2009

I used to really also dislike the term douchebag, but for some reason I hate it less lately. I still see it as a vaguely anti-lady perjorative, but have realzed that most other people don't see it that way so I may have to just lump it.
posted by jessamyn at 12:20 PM

I used to think "douche" was anti-lady (because douche goes in the vagina, and vaginas are dirty, so douches are dirty, etc. etc.).
posted by muddgirl at 12:25 PM

I believe it actually was intended as a vaguely anti-lady thing for the reasons mudgirl suggests. The current "it's a pointless product that was designed to make us feel dirty" origin is a sort of reclamation.

Sometimes it's nice, I'm told, to get a good hate-on for someone when you're angry and frustrated and can't yell at your family, co-workers, neighbors, pets or the television. So people make up a sort of moving-target hated class to get frustrated at and the facts shift to suit the frustration.

Somewhere I have a book that's a collection of "words in other languages that don't have direct English translations but probably should because DAMN they'd be useful." One of these is a word which basically describes the act of swearing at the road because you can't vent your frustrations on anyone else, and you've got to get a hate-on for something, and the street can't fight back, so....I believe the word was "majie", and I forget what language, but the book described how in this particular country people would often storm out of their house and stare at the pavement and cuss a blue streak because JESUS they had to vent...

Maybe instead of hipsters, let's all hate that one stretch of I-95 that stretches from NYC to about New Haven because it has THE WORST TRAFFIC IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:25 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Concerning "douchebag": perfectly serviceable insult. nice two-syllable punch, involves body parts and fluids, which is always a plus. It's part of the insult lexicon now, like "asshole" or "shithead," and, like these terms, "douchebag" is also so played out that there's nothing creative or original about its use anymore, and there hasn't been for some time. If you've gotta burn someone, I prefer the unexpected insult. Why doesn't anyone ever call anyone else a "catheter tube," for instance? Discuss.

Concerning hipsters: Isn't it just a silly little fashion trend, like the thousands that have come before it and the thousands that shall follow it? I don't get the level of passion they seem to inspire, both for and against. Getting angry about or energetically identifying with ironic t-shirts, trucker hats and messenger bags seems as goofy as expending similar amounts of energy on hammer pants, fade haircuts and shoulder-pad jackets. It's just young people being young, which they will continue to do until they are old, and a new set of young people picks up some new thread of silly fashion. Settle down already and let it pass. In the meantime, some of the music is really fucking good.

People want to belong. It's the most natural reaction I can imagine to a confusing, uncaring world. People like grouping into tribes and always will. Part of this involves dressing in similar ways. I've met this one kid on the west side of Olympia a couple times who looks like he's going as a hipster for Halloween. I never see him w/o a trucker hat, blocky glasses, a messenger bag, an ironic t-shirt and skinny jeans. He's got the mullet and the mustache and his iPod contains nothing but ironic cover songs and remixes. The only booze I've seen him drink is PBR. It's silly, but so was the shit I did and identified w/ at his age. Like everyone who has ever lived, he's just, on some level, afraid of being alone and in search of his own identity and place to belong. For now, it's the whole trucker hat thing. Later, he'll be a little older, get a haircut and try something else.
posted by EatTheWeak at 1:26 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Bulgaroktonos: It's the fucking CVS, there are no more or less "authentic" tortilla chips to be had in the store. They're all precisely the same, but for whatever reason, these set off some sort of "authentic" switch in her brain, and thus they were the appropriate chip to get.

If there's anything I dislike about current youth culture it's the obsession with "authenticity." I really dislike the term and it is, as far as I can tell, pretty much meaningless. I mean, some kind of "authenticity meter" on which one could measure different level of authenticity is ridiculous.

Anyway... that's my two minutes of hate out of the way.
posted by Kattullus at 1:27 PM on September 18, 2009

Don't men generally like vaginas?

Maybe one of the functions of a vagina. Not all of the men who are fans of that one function of a vagina are equally as in to the other functions.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:28 PM on September 18, 2009

Do hipsters actually exist?

Yes. I have worked in Williamsburg, Brooklyn for years. They exist, and like any inbred population, have developed strange characteristics.
posted by R. Mutt at 1:29 PM on September 18, 2009

❅ ← I am actually a special snowflake. Hate me if you must!
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:33 PM on September 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

What you are is too damn reasonable by half. Ever heard of too much of a good thing? It must be tiring to be so reasonable all the time. Damn Vulcan.

Also I believe debating the morality of the term douchebag is pretty silly. While there are definitely derogatory terms that are morally wrong to use, and sure douchebag may or may not be one of them, I think if it is in the range of morally wrong derogatory terms, that it is so close to the line that if that is the worst thing you do all day that you are still going to heaven.
posted by ND¢ at 1:44 PM on September 18, 2009

"Why does MetaFilter hate hipsters? "

There's a hotdog place where I live that charges $10 for a hotdog and then adds an automatic 18% tip on top of that. It's where the hipsters hang out to eat hipster food for hipster prices.

That's why I hate hipsters. They fucked with my hotdog. Your hotdog. America's hotdog, shat on by hipsters.

My wife and I actually went down there once, took a look inside, and then walked away laughing. Even though I hate hipsters they're still much fun to gawk at.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:49 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

You live in Victoria and you have to ask this?

I dunno. I never see them around here that much. I saw a guy on the bus on the bus on his way home from Camosun (Interurban Campus no less) along with a bunch kids who were in some sort of "tourism management" course. He was wearing some sort of porkpie hat, a tweed jacket, skinny jeans and oxfords, and he had bushy facial hair. I thought he was just doing it to look older. He was also reading "Chess Theory" in a very obvious, look-at-the-cover-of-my-book way.

So I guess I encountered a hipster.

Honestly, the vibe around here is yoga. Yoga mat this, yoga mat that. I think it's awesome because a) none of the young women I went to uni with back in the early 90s wore tight-fitting yoga clothing and b) none of the women I went to uni with back in the early 90s actually exercised.

But I don't see many hipsters on a day-to-day basis, probably because I'm too old.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:52 PM on September 18, 2009

R. Mutt: "Do hipsters actually exist?

Yes. I have worked in Williamsburg, Brooklyn for years. They exist, and like any inbred population, have developed strange characteristics."

So, now that you've pissed on them, are you going to grace them with your signature?

We've covered that hipsters don't self-identify. You work in Wburg, reference Duchamp, and deride hipsters. Do you see where I'm going here?

And, since self-identifying as a hipster disqualifies you from hipsterdom, I'll go ahead and say that I'm a hipster.
posted by defenestration at 2:00 PM on September 18, 2009

I associate the rise of the term "Hipster" with the rise of the internet, and the ubiquity of information that came with it. Before the internet, it took some effort (especially if you didn't leave near any major metropolitan areas) to get in to any kind of subculture. Then the internet shows up, and you can read about This Heat on Wikipedia and then download their entire discography, and you can read Pitchfork and be part of the local scene all over the country, any fuckhole from nowhere special can suddenly be appropriating YOUR subculture.

Then the O.G. indie punk hipster kids started calling all the youngins with Napster "hipsters," and they in turn started using it to question each other's legitimacy, and it blossomed into what we have today: a long irrelevant Metafilter thread.
posted by orville sash at 2:06 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

"I hate hipster douchebags." Specifically, what parts of speech are "hipster" and "douchebags"? Adjective and noun? Noun and noun?

Noun adjunct and noun.
posted by Iridic at 2:10 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

And, since self-identifying as a hipster disqualifies you from hipsterdom, I'll go ahead and say that I'm a hipster.

Ahh, defensestration, but that is a common misconception. While hipster-loathing and vigorous non-self-identification are sufficient to qualify as a hipster, they are not necessary conditions.

Indeed, the logic runs like this. "Whatever is 'cool' must not be cool, if enough people recognize it as such, unless it's something I really really like, and then I must defend it as cool against those reactionaries who would dismiss it out of hand, but on general principle, I will dismiss things thought by the masses to be "cool" out of hand. Hipsters are 'cool,' and thus I must hate them. And I cannot, under any circumstance, be one myself."

But there's another door, you see, to a higher level of hipsterdom which sees this logic and says, "Hating hipsters is 'cool,' therefor I won't subscribe to the hate and will rather proudly self-identify as an act of contrarianism to all those fucking hipsters who refuse to self-identify."

There's probably another logical door to another level beyond that, but I'm not a cool enough hipster and so I don't know what it is.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:10 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

hating hipsters is something that only hipsters do.
posted by empath at 2:12 PM on September 18, 2009

I think orville slash has it. 'Hipster' is the post-internet version of the 'scene kid' insult—a term that was often used in DIY music scenes; similarly, it was not used to self-identify. "You're so scene," etc. It was usually leveled at people who were 'trying to hard' by people who were trying to hard.
posted by defenestration at 2:17 PM on September 18, 2009

Douchebag is an excellent insult, I think. Douching is bad for you, so a whle bag of douches is even worse.

Also, hipsters fucking suck with their ironic everything. I LIKE WATCHING GOLDEN GIRLS OK THERE'S NO IRONY INVOLVED JUST LET ME HAVE SOMETHING I CAN ENJOY FOR ITSELF AND STOP WITH THE NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK WE ALL KNOW IT'S BAD BUT WE PRETEND TO LIKE IT AN--

Oh fuck it. Pass me a PBR and a Merle Haggard CD.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:18 PM on September 18, 2009

I was just joking around, Navelgazer. I'm with you on this—I think.
posted by defenestration at 2:18 PM on September 18, 2009

trying too hard. EDIT feature, plz?
posted by defenestration at 2:19 PM on September 18, 2009

Most hipsters are young urban professionals, thus yuppies. Not all yuppies are hipsters.

Also, that 14-year-old "scene kid" should be ruthlessly interrogated as to the "scene" she belongs to, as "scene kid" is a pejorative among hipsters.
posted by klangklangston at 2:19 PM on September 18, 2009

> refer people that would shit on metal (the music) for the simple fact that it was metal

Man, I know the type. I've always heard them called "emos". Which I guess is like "goth" without the eye-liner? I never met anyone who called themselves emo either, so it seems to be cut from the same cloth.

People that reject any kind of rock harder than the pixies and make a point of letting you know do bug me, though. It's the music equivalent of "is that something I'd have to have a television to understand? I DON'T EVEN OWN ONE!"

To be honest though, all this is stuff I worried about way more when I was in my 20s and seems a little baffling to me now. I suspect all the hipster-hate is just younger people on my lawn, or older people bitter about their misspent youth but sure they were much more genuinely alternative back then.
posted by cj_ at 2:23 PM on September 18, 2009

trying too hard. EDIT feature, plz?

sorry buddy, you made tha typo twice - that makes you a douchebag, I think
posted by Think_Long at 2:24 PM on September 18, 2009

I LIKE WATCHING GOLDEN GIRLS OK THERE'S NO IRONY INVOLVED JUST LET ME HAVE SOMETHING I CAN ENJOY FOR ITSELF AND STOP WITH THE NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK WE ALL KNOW IT'S BAD BUT WE PRETEND TO LIKE IT AN--

Could it be the animosity expressed toward the so called "hipster" is in fact the tension between geeky passionate love of things and the woeful "hip" seen-it-all 'tude often found in youth? It's fashionable to have odd obsessions and obscure interests, but it is not fashionable to be passionate. Nerd meets Activist meets Fashion-Plate. "Geek Chic" was always an impossible combination, it's never chic to be in love with something. Chic runs cool.
posted by The Whelk at 2:25 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Just want to say that I admitted to being a hipster before any of you second-run fuckers did.

am i uncool yet
posted by naju at 2:28 PM on September 18, 2009

sorry buddy, you made tha typo twice - that makes you a douchebag, I think

Awesome.
posted by gman at 2:29 PM on September 18, 2009

Can we hate on typo trolls some more? I fucking hate typo trolls.
posted by Artw at 2:30 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Oh and this:

> plus he's always wearing sunglasses on top of his head even when he's been inside for hours. That guy is a douchebag.

This is all it takes to qualify as a douchebag these days? Man, you guys are judgmental. Seems like a perfectly convenient place to keep your sunglasses. To me a douchebag is defined by their behavior rather than any particular fashion cues. Are you perhaps conflating "preppy" or "fratboy"? There's some crossover there, but the two terms aren't interchangeable. Acting like a douche makes you a douchebag. You can't start attributing behavior to people based on what they wear until you start getting into popped-collar/spray-on tan territory, in which case better safe than sorry.

I can't believe I am even discussing this, I should go outside or something.
posted by cj_ at 2:38 PM on September 18, 2009

sorry buddy, you made tha typo twice - that makes you a douchebag, I think
posted by Think_Long at 2:24 PM on September 18 [+] [!]

wait, can I call myself a douchebag too? this stuff is hard
posted by Think_Long at 2:39 PM on September 18, 2009

I'm a douchebag.
posted by naju at 2:40 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

naju, I got you beat.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:41 PM on September 18, 2009

Haha. 2004, nice!
posted by naju at 2:42 PM on September 18, 2009

Iowa is one of the states with the smallest number of hipsters per capita.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:43 PM on September 18, 2009

Noted on metafilter in 2004. The ad was from 2002--and I have the newsprint to prove it. I'm that hip.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:45 PM on September 18, 2009

You know what really burns my coffee when it comes to the hip-sters? The way that they're always freighting their aesthetic preferences with moral significance.

Not so much the fact that they do it, mind. Just the way in which they go about it.
posted by Your Disapproving Father at 2:45 PM on September 18, 2009

For those who are uncomfortable with the term "douchebag", may I suggest douchezak?
posted by TedW at 2:46 PM on September 18, 2009

Here's a bit of irony (which you'll enjoy, metaironically, if you're a 'hipster'):

The very people who deride 'hipsters' for their supposed superficiality tend to identify said 'hipsters' (and lump them into a homogenized group) through superficial means—fashion, grooming habits, material goods, etc.
posted by defenestration at 3:19 PM on September 18, 2009

I teach a lot of hipsters in a small, wholesome backwater. I don't hate them as a group, but they can be incredibly shallow and surprisingly materialistic poseurs (did I use that right?). Further, they tend to be very dismissive of everything to which they assign insufficient coolness. Me included, maybe. Probably.

And I don't think Mefi hates them either. Indeed, I think that this is one of their strongholds, where their strength in numbers allows or encourages them to be very vocal and dismissive in their arbitrage of what counts as cool, or worthy, or not.
posted by Rumple at 3:28 PM on September 18, 2009

Wait. This "hipster" thing has always confused me, but I thought I finally had it figured out. I was in Williamsburg last week, but it was very rainy, and there were not many people out and about. In fact, the only people I saw were burly men wearing hardhats and orange vests. They yelled at me and called me sexy and beautiful, but I thought they were being ironic (as I said, raining heavily, I was pretty bedraggled). So, are y'all saying that "hipster" is not synonymous with "construction worker"? I am confused again.
posted by little e at 3:30 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't hate them as a group, but they can be incredibly shallow and surprisingly materialistic poseurs

but really, isn't that just what everyone thinks of young people? (I count myself as a young person)
posted by Think_Long at 3:33 PM on September 18, 2009

I don't hate hipsters at all.

When prepared correctly, I find them quite delicious actually. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I should probably stock up the shed for the coming winter.

Speaking of, and apropos of absolutely nothing, who's up for a meetup?
posted by quin at 3:36 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

dirtynumbangelboy: Douchebag is an excellent insult, I think. Douching is bad for you, so a whle bag of douches is even worse.

I do not think it means what you think it means.

This is a douche bag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Combination_enema_and_douche_syringe.jpg
posted by ericost at 3:42 PM on September 18, 2009

but really, isn't that just what everyone thinks of young people? (I count myself as a young person)

No, no, not at all - speaking for myself. A lot the students are amazing, sincere, even profound.
posted by Rumple at 3:46 PM on September 18, 2009

Some people have a disdain of hipsters because they are the post-modernism of cool.

Everyone had one or more kinds of crowds with which they were happy to hang, each with its own set of music, fashion, and little bits of flavor. You were a skateboarder, you were a burner, a goth, a peppy preppy kid, whatever, it was what you were drawn to for the people and all of the culture that went with it. For some, the style was effortless, and that is the far end of the spectrum which we call cool.

Then along came the hipsters, and they cannot merely enjoy a thing, or even analyze a thing to figure out why they like it. No, they have to deconstruct it, become ironically aware of it and their own participation, then have a dialectic about their relationship with it. Do I drink Pabst Blue Ribbon because it is cheap, or because blue collar workers once drank it, or is it part of my ongoing performance as a hopeful part of my peer group? Look, I am "dancing." I am "at a concert." I will document myself with my iPhone as being "at this concert." Isn't it hilarious, that I am at this concert? This corduroy blazer I got at the Salvation Army, from which my bony wrists protrude, isn't it authentic?

Hipsters act like anthropologists in gorilla suits, a little tipsy on fermented bananas and having a high time with the native fauna; oh, how they will tell their friends back at University about the things they did. Nothing can be done without circumscribing quotes and leaden self-consciousness.

It isn't merely that they represent the death of cool, poisoned by layers of self-reference, it's that they make everyone else around them feel fake, too. People hate hipsters for the same reason the heroes of all of the Body Snatcher movies smash in the pulpy, vegetable heads of the pod people — because it might be contagious.
posted by adipocere at 3:48 PM on September 18, 2009 [33 favorites]

Oh, come on. Everyone hates hipsters. Especially because of the way they show off your bum crack every time you bend over.
posted by dg at 4:07 PM on September 18, 2009

Little douche cup
You don't know what I got
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:13 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I don't fucking know. I spent a year in Williamsburg, and the last 5 in the East Village. I don't even notice hipsters anymore. It's just, like, the thing now, so everybody's into it to some degree -- some are just more tricked-out than others.

From my perspective, between hipsterism and mainstream culture, hipsterism is kind of the lesser of two evils. At least the hipsters are really into the stuff they like.

I do think it's worthwhile to occaisionally go uptown or to the meatpacking district and come face-to-face with actual douchebag culture. If you spend all your time in the Hipster Triangle it's easy to forget that really, there are worse things out there than hipsters.
posted by Afroblanco at 4:18 PM on September 18, 2009

true;

hipsters > guidos

(not guido-ist)
posted by empath at 4:23 PM on September 18, 2009

The truth is, we all want to be unique, and we all want to be authentic,

Not me!
posted by Sparx at 4:38 PM on September 18, 2009

Are Animal Collective hipsters? Because if they are, I'm awfully grateful to them for this song, which reminds me how much I love my family. How about TV on the Radio? Because if they are, I'd like to thank them for this song, which made me less bitter during the later years of the Bush administration.

If they aren't hipsters, then I suppose I'm just grateful to a whole bunch of young people who care about and try to make meaningful, moving music.
posted by ferdydurke at 4:38 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm always thinking of myself as gothish, and people I knoware always refuting it, because I'm not caked with black makeup on a daily basis, and I'm blonde and such. BUT! If you consider whether I am a hipster, the likely conclusion you will reach is that I am too goth (and fat, which reinforces the goth conclusion) to be a hipster. I find this comforting. Probably I'm just post-goth, ironically goth, and therefore a hipster. Either way.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:14 PM on September 18, 2009

What ever happened to emo? Wasn't that a thing before hipsters? Are they still a thing?

I'm so out of touch.
posted by empath at 5:24 PM on September 18, 2009

and who the fuck is Brangelina?
posted by gman at 5:27 PM on September 18, 2009

Also, that 14-year-old "scene kid" should be ruthlessly interrogated as to the "scene" she belongs to, as "scene kid" is a pejorative among hipsters.

But she's fourteen, which is the right age to reclaim "scene kid" as the new cool.
posted by Bookhouse at 5:38 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Do hipsters get jobs in marketing?
posted by bad grammar at 5:39 PM on September 18, 2009

We've covered that hipsters don't self-identify. You work in Wburg, reference Duchamp, and deride hipsters. Do you see where I'm going here?

Yes. But they tend to to suspect (wrongly) that I am a cop.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:52 PM on September 18, 2009

The very people who deride 'hipsters' for their supposed superficiality tend to identify said 'hipsters' (and lump them into a homogenized group) through superficial means—fashion, grooming habits, material goods, etc.

Like the army, you mean? Everyone wears a uniform. Rednecks, rappers, white trash, lawyers, hipsters, punks, etc. Some armies are vast and some consist of one lonely soul.

It's called "self-identification."
posted by klanawa at 6:04 PM on September 18, 2009

Doh! Preview.
posted by klanawa at 6:04 PM on September 18, 2009

I love hipsters!

Hipsters are a kind of really delicious BLT, right?
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:18 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Now, "enema bag" seems really insulting, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

Assbag works though. I'm too lazy to see if anyone has suggested that though.
posted by kellyblah at 6:28 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Horsebag.
posted by shammack at 6:30 PM on September 18, 2009

klanawa, I can sort of see that what you wrote was related to what I wrote, but I'm not quite sure how. Could you elucidate?

My point is that people can wear a style of dress, grow a certain type of facial hair, and buy certain products, but that doesn't have to define who they are. To assume such a thing is a shallow and superficial act. An act that 'hipsters' are often accused of themselves.

A lot of people criticize perceived 'hipsters' for their superficiality and obsession with appearances and overvaluation of the material things they possess and consume. It is as if they have a mental bingo board and dab-dab-dab as they see tell-tale signs of hipsterdom—mind you, these signs constantly change, both because of the assumed trend-hopping nature of 'hipsters' and the fact that people who hate on 'hipsters' continuously bend the criteria to suit their judgmental needs—and when they've got amassed enough they yell "bingo!" and rub a troll doll's belly.

When such a person sneers at this 'hipster'—who has been identified through superficial observation and surface contact, because really, who would want to actually interact with a 'hipster'—they are being hypocritical. This is ironic, and, since 'hipsters' love irony, they are just making them stronger! Fixed gears? No way. This bike's sprocket is a goddamn ouroboros.
posted by defenestration at 6:49 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm one of the feminists-reclaiming-douchebag-as-feminist-pejorative but it's definitely a reclaim. I'm also on the "cockbib" tip.

"Assclam" is a favorite, too.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:10 PM on September 18, 2009

Everyone is so phony, like ya know?
posted by nola at 7:11 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

In this thread I have seen claims that hipsters are overly concerned with authenticity, lacking in respect for authenticity, that they like things only because they are cool, that they only like things ironically, that they are the newcomers who only pretend to like something, that they are the original fans that resent the newcomers when something sees larger exposure. Clearly hipsters are a cypher, the social Id onto which we project everything we personally do not like about the scene.
posted by idiopath at 7:17 PM on September 18, 2009 [9 favorites]

defenestration: And, since self-identifying as a hipster disqualifies you from hipsterdom, I'll go ahead and say that I'm a hipster.

Russell's paradox rears its ugly head again. Axiomatic set theory can take care of this.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:18 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Because it is right, and fitting.
posted by orthogonality at 7:27 PM on September 18, 2009

Also: they're richer, more successful, younger and frequently better looking than I am.
posted by Marnie at 7:29 PM on September 18, 2009

People want to belong. It's the most natural reaction I can imagine to a confusing, uncaring world. People like grouping into tribes and always will. Part of this involves dressing in similar ways.

This is true, and it make me feel bad, because I often hate -- well, hate is too strong a word for it -- get irritated by people who are trying REALLY HARD to belong. I don't have any special loathing for hipsters. I loath them, but only as much as I loath those party girls I see every night, the ones in the short skirts and glittery tops who look like they're auditioning for "Rock of Love"; Only as much as I loath the gangstas who are rapping really loudly on the subway; Only as much as the "bad girls" with the angry/sexy expressions and the combat boots...

I want to say, "Oh, why don't you just knock it off for a while?"

I cringe when I see ANYONE who has a "persona," because the only time I ever have one is on Halloween or when I'm acting in a play. When I see someone who looks like a walking cliche, I always want to say, "You're not fooling anyone. Just take off the mask. No matter how hard you try, I know you still get constipated, worry about losing your job and cry at the movies. Your 'coolness' and 'attitude' will not erase the fact that you're a regular, old human animal."

I am totally snobbish and intolerant about this, and I make no excuses. It's a flaw, and I try to hide it most of the time. I'm just describing a feeling I get as honestly as I can.

I have all the same needs and fears as people who want to belong: I have low self-esteem, I often feel lost, I feel alone, I feel like sinking into something, I need direction... But for whatever reason, I never have the desire to be part of a trend. It just seems like too much work -- having to keep up all the time.
posted by grumblebee at 7:45 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Do hipsters get jobs in marketing?

Hipsters get jobs in banking these days. Especially with all the banker hate these days, working in finance is the ultimate ironic appropriation. One of my friends is a complete PBR-swilling APC and flannel wearing Joy Division listening hipster out of working hours. Come to think of it, he even wore hipster-framed glasses to work a couple times.
posted by pravit at 7:58 PM on September 18, 2009

Only as much as the "bad girls" with the angry/sexy expressions and the combat boots...

Wait. No, no. Wait. I like those. What...? Does this mean...? That I...? No, it. It. It can't be!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:59 PM on September 18, 2009

grumblebee: "You're not fooling anyone. Just take off the mask. No matter how hard you try, I know you still get constipated, worry about losing your job and cry at the movies. Your 'coolness' and 'attitude' will not erase the fact that you're a regular, old human animal."

Being human is pretending, these people happen to be doing a different kind of pretending than you are. Big deal. The ones to really feel pity for are the ones that are incapable of adapting socially or having a persona, because they pretty much never end up having friends and live lonely miserable, and often violent, lives. You have a persona too. It just happens to be a common enough persona that you never get called on it. Being human and interacting with other humans requires trying pretty fucking hard. They are unusual not for the trying, but for the relative rarity of what they are trying to be.
posted by idiopath at 8:03 PM on September 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Being human is pretending, these people happen to be doing a different kind of pretending than you are. Big deal.

I agree. My prejudice is small-minded.

You have a persona too.

It depends on how you define "persona." If you mean someone who has identifiable traits and mannerisms, then yes I do. I guess. That's for others to say.

But I think of a persona as something consciously constructed: "I want to look more like those guys from 'Men in Black.'" or "I want to look like a liberal" or whatever. I don't have that sort of persona in that sense. I may be UNconsciously striving for some sort of "look," but unconscious is not conscious.

I am not better than people who are going for a particular look or attitude. It's just something I do. What look would I go for?

In reality, I am a shy, somewhat-intellectual guy. I'm pretty sure that I act like a shy, somewhat-intellectual guy, though I don't know if I dress like one. I just wear what's in my closet -- mostly jeans and button-down shirts. Before I got married, I wore -- I don't know -- anything. Then my wife pruned my wardrobe, bought me some new clothes, and I wore them because it made her happy. When I buy new clothes, I just try to match whatever is already in my closet.

I'm not aware of any particular poses or attitudes I put on. I guess if I'm having a bad day, I try to cover it and be nice to people, even if I feel cranky. Is that a persona?

I act basically the same way in public as I do in private, except when I'm with someone I'm comfortable with, I'm more talkative and more silly/jokey. But I'm not putting on a "serious" persona when I'm in public, and I'm not putting on a playful one when I'm with friends. I'm just acting the way I feel like acting.

If you're saying that everyone has a persona, then the word "persona" gets pretty diluted. What does it even mean?
posted by grumblebee at 8:17 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Did people give up on cobag for colostomy bag? It's fun to say.

Though at first it confused me, because I thought it had something to do with codependence. You know: Sad Sack. Cobag. Poo box. Wizzle packet.
posted by fleacircus at 8:18 PM on September 18, 2009

grumblebee: "I'm not aware of any particular poses or attitudes I put on."

The way I see it, what leads someone to be gangsta or a party girl is identical to what leads them to have the same religion their parents have, and speak the same language, and like the same kind of food, and like the kind of music that their friends like, and find the latest fashions attractive. We are social animals, this arises through a never stopping process of invention and imitation.

I am definitely down with snarking about the superficiality, machismo, and casual misogyny of gangsta culture, or the self destructive attention seeking of the party girl. But the fact that they are putting on a certain face paint and putting a particular set of feathers in their hair and stomping their feet "just so" only because other people are doing it? Well no duh, of course, and so do you.
posted by idiopath at 8:30 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I claim to hate hipsters because they're shallow, materialistic, gentrifying, poisoning everything around them with toxic doses of irony, etc. etc.

But the real reason I hate hipsters is that I'm old and fat and ugly and those young hipster women don't wanna have sex with me anymore.

I HATE HIPSTERS!
posted by jason's_planet at 8:33 PM on September 18, 2009

But the real reason I hate hipsters is that I'm old and fat and ugly and those young hipster women don't wanna have sex with me anymore.

Finally, honesty.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:41 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't want to sound like I strongly disagree with what you're saying, idiopath, because I don't. But it sounds to me like you're saying that they only reason one wears a certain shade of lipstick is to emulate other people. I do think that's one reason to do it -- maybe the most common reason -- but it's not the only reason. You might wear the lipstick because you saw it in a store and got a kick out of its color.

MAYBE you liked its color because, subconsciously, you associate it with some people you subconsciously want to imitate. But maybe you just like that color.

There are some people who look seem to dress the way they want to -- just to give themselves a kick or to feel comfortable. Some of these people DO look vaguely like followers of this trend or that; some of them don't.

But if I see Alice -- a person who generally dresses hipster-ish but seems to do so just because she genuinely likes the styles -- suddenly wear something non-hipsterish, it's not a surprise, because the main thing about Alice is that she looks comfortable in whatever she wears, like she owns it rather than it owns her.

On the other hand, there are some people who really seem to be "going for a look." They are not bad people, and there's nothing wrong with going for a look. (When you see these people on an "off day," it looks like the made a mistake.) But -- despite my attempts not to judge people -- I have a much more negative reaction to those people than to the Alices of the world.
posted by grumblebee at 8:42 PM on September 18, 2009

>> It's like the concept of authenticity has become so strongly associated with certain features(i.e. is dirty) that it's lost all connection to the actual property of being authentic, or the reasons why a person would prefer an authentic thing to an inauthentic thing.

>See also rockism.

I love this subject!

Faking It with Yuval Taylor episode of The Sound of Young America podcast starring Mr. Jesse Thorn (America's Radio Sweetheart)

& Y. Taylor's book
posted by morganw at 8:43 PM on September 18, 2009

Strangely, just a few hours ago I was trying to explain what metafilter is, and why i would go to a metafilter meetup, and in my (not-very-good) attempt to explain, I characterized you all as nerdish hipsters and/or hip nerds.

I should have added "self-loathing" I guess.
posted by NikitaNikita at 8:45 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm reading this thread as I smoke a tobacco pipe. Does that qualify?
posted by The Gooch at 8:48 PM on September 18, 2009

There's nothing unique or interesting about hipsters.
posted by clockzero at 8:59 PM on September 18, 2009

grumblebee: "she genuinely likes the styles"

Yes, it is possible to genuinely like that which your culture creates.

And it is possible to dissimulate what you actually like.

But would you call everyone who eats food containing hot peppers a poseur? Without exception, your first experience of something like this is going to be pain. People choose to push this boundary and acquire a tolerance or an acquired taste, for social and aesthetic and practical reasons. Or even simple curiosity.

I find it perplexing that people take the time to criticize phoniness in fashion and culture when fashion and culture breed in phoniness, and would never evolve without the lifeblood of phoniness that leads to social innovation and the future possibility of genuinely liking something. Perhaps this would be an example of the sausage metaphor, where most people like it just fine but a rare few can stomach witnessing the process that actually produces it.
posted by idiopath at 9:00 PM on September 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

I became aware of the term "hipster" when I started reading the back issues of Filler in 2001, a few months before suck.com closed down. In these three columns from 1997, Heather Havrilesky makes fun of what she calls "urban hipsters".

Before then, I had liked the idea of belonging to a subculture (mostly musical), but too lazy to take the steps; I liked the idea of being into punk or metal or ska or industrial, but I didn't want to spend the money to actually buy the records.

But when I came to Montreal I took a dislike to the "Branchés", our version of hipsters; the people who paid way to much for an apartment on the Plateau; the people who liked "Un crabe dans la tête" and all those stupid 90s movies with David La Haye; the people who drank microbrews and not Molson or Labatt like everyone else (I was kind of stupid back then, eh); the people who were featured in the "Actuel" section of La Presse.

I, obviously, wasn't one of those people. I didn't shop in thrift stores: I wore Big Bills (the equivalent of Dickie's) and steel-toed boots. And construction hats. I drank Labatt 50 and Laurentide. I was a crazy motherfucker from a small northern town.

And then I read The Rebel Sell.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:02 PM on September 18, 2009

But would you call everyone who eats food containing hot peppers a poseur? Without exception, your first experience of something like this is going to be pain.

No, I would call anyone who PRETENDS to like hot peppers when they don't a poseur. If someone says "this is really painful now, but I hear it's worth going through the pain for the later pleasure," then he's not a poseur.
posted by grumblebee at 9:06 PM on September 18, 2009

He sounds more like a high school date rapist, actually.
posted by ODiV at 9:09 PM on September 18, 2009

grumblebee: "If someone says "this is really painful now, but I hear it's worth going through the pain for the later pleasure," then he's not a poseur."

How many of those people who are uncomfortably wearing some subculture's trappings tell you explicitly "this is who I really am and who I always have been"? Some of them could be convinced that some temporary awkwardness is worth it for the experience of really being that in the future.

By standards of obvious awkwardness, most teenagers don't actually have any real sexuality, despite being innately more horny than any other kind of human being ever.
posted by idiopath at 9:13 PM on September 18, 2009

most teenagers don't actually have any real sexuality, despite being innately more horny than any other kind of human being ever.

Huh? How can you be horny unless without "sexuality." What is "real" sexuality.

I do agree that most teenagers aren't sexy. At least not to me.
posted by grumblebee at 9:23 PM on September 18, 2009

Some of them could be convinced that some temporary awkwardness is worth it for the experience of really being that in the future.

Isn't this what I said:

If someone says "this is really painful now, but I hear it's worth going through the pain for the later pleasure," then he's not a poseur.
posted by grumblebee at 9:25 PM on September 18, 2009

idiopath: "You know most of my friends are hipsters but what bugs me about hipsters is that whole stupid neuveau pauvre thing. I am from a long line of old impecunity myself, and seeing these pretentious twats acting like they have been broke their whole lives just chafes, it really does. They think you can just lack money and it is as simple as that, but they just don't understand."

You'll never live like common people
Never do whatever common people do
Never fail like common people
Never watch your life slide out of view
and you dance and drink and screw
because there's nothing else to do
posted by subbes at 9:27 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I guess the root of this pet peeve I have is that I would like a world that is a bit more friendly to awkwardness and play and experimentation. It is easy to be blinded to the fact that the dominant fashion is as constructed and artificial as any of the fringe ones, and it seems arrogant to call other fashions pretense and pretend that yours is not even a fashion.
posted by idiopath at 9:29 PM on September 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

See also rockism

Crying about rockism is the new whining about political correctness.
posted by rodgerd at 9:55 PM on September 18, 2009

Dancing about rockism is like whining about architecture.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:08 AM on September 19, 2009 [4 favorites]

Rockism really used to piss me off when I was young enough that most of the guys I knew where Beavis and Butthead style rockist bigots. They can't usually call everyone else fags any more, but the attitude is still there. Nowadays rockism seems mostly kind of cute, if a bit annoying.
posted by idiopath at 12:16 AM on September 19, 2009

But the real reason I hate hipsters is that I'm old and fat and ugly and those young hipster women don't wanna have sex with me anymore.
Finally, honesty.
I can do better than that - young hipster women never did want to have sex with me and, failing some kind of miracle, never will.
posted by dg at 12:33 AM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

Dear hipsters,

It appears that "skinny jeans" have had deleterious effects on the pants fashion of society at large. My voluptuous ass does not look good in these pants. Sometimes said ass gets cold and I would like to put fashionable pants on it. Please make bellbottoms be back in style, because although it is an acceptable vendor of professional attire, buying jeans at Ann Taylor makes me feel old.

Sincerely,
little e

PS Otherwise we're cool. Even if we weren't cool, I have a very limited supply of hatred, which I need to save for when I am in Georgetown or Clarendon. So we would still be cool.
posted by little e at 4:23 AM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

flannel wearing Joy Division listening hipster out of working hours

I'm sorry. I can't allow someone who isn't old enough to remember 120 Minutes to listen to Joy Division. I don't care if that makes me a hipster doucheswaggler.
posted by crataegus at 4:41 AM on September 19, 2009

I've always felt hipsters were emo kids minus the sincerity.

As for the rage...I don't know. I like most hipster fashions just because I don't know anybody around here who dresses like that. At least there's some quality to the aesthetic, as opposed to hippie "fashion", which I absolutely loathe.

I like the skinny jeans okay but I hate the big fucking sunglasses.

People. Please stop it with the big fucking sunglasses.
posted by thisperon at 4:54 AM on September 19, 2009

Rockism really used to piss me off when I was young enough that most of the guys I knew where Beavis and Butthead style rockist bigots.

I think I really just don't understand this term. I've seen this framed (on Slate, for certain, and probably elsewhere as well) as "rockism" v. something called -- dear God, I can't believe I'm going to type this -- okay -- "poptism" (!), and that, that, that right there is where I check out of this whole debate altogether. If someone considers him/herself a poptimist, whatever in the holy name of God that means, that person is a hipster. Yes. There. I've said it. I think that person might be some kind of weird, peppy robot. I don't know. I'm pretty sure I've never met a poptimist, as I can only picture a constantly smiling girl with bright orange hair and glittery skin drinking some steaming smart drink and bouncing around to a techno version of the theme to "Sesame Street" in 1993, or possibly 2078, and I only ever met people like that when I was a teenager and read Mondo 2000. And by "met" I mean "saw heavily touched-up pictures of." I mean, really, what do these terms even mean?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:29 AM on September 19, 2009

I'm really late to the hate party and all, but I have to say that the Metafilter hipster hate is pretty fucking tired. I hate rich people and hypocrites and trust fund babies as much as the next person, but as someone who lives in Brooklyn and see hipster-ness every time I step outside my door, I'm pretty shocked that this site has so conveniently equated the first category with the latter.

If you can take Brooklyn as ground zero in Hipsterland (elbowing out Portland, San Francisco, and Austin), and my neighborhood of Greenpoint (north of Williamsburg) as a decent deck of observation, then here's my armchair evaluation:

Hipsters buy organically and make up the vast majority of Michael Pollanites who joined the local CSAs, judging by the people who pick up their produce every Saturday at the park. They ride bikes and push for more bike lanes. They make up, literally, 100% of the volunteer force at the local animal shelter. Maybe 2% of them have trust funds? Hell if I know, as I've never met someone here who doesn't work for rent and food. Lots of them, however, work in galleries, tattoo parlors, soup kitchens, vintage stores, as graphic designers, music producers, writers, and other careers that don't cram people into cubicles, but lots of them work 9-5 as Johnny Suitman or whatever. They voted for Obama. Like most people with taste buds, they only drink PBR when they're trying to save money. They're liberal and funny and watch baby animals on YouTube. They like music, and swap recommendations, and generally don't try out-obscure their friends because it's lame and clichéd and few people actively try to make their friends feel bad. They listen to NPR and watch Mad Men and The Wire. They recycle, have funny theme parties and worry about the economy.

I can't imagine anyone who'd align with such privileged, poseur values. Anyways, back to posting on Metafilter.
posted by zoomorphic at 6:30 AM on September 19, 2009 [57 favorites]

Forget hipsters, where do you stand on the Mods vs. Rockers, huh?
posted by signal at 6:46 AM on September 19, 2009

Hipsters turn into yuppies, but they aren't yet.
posted by gjc at 7:05 AM on September 19, 2009

It is easy to be blinded to the fact that the dominant fashion is as constructed and artificial as any of the fringe ones...

I don't think grumblebee is arguing that the "dominant" fashion isn't constructed, but there's a another choice besides adopting the pose and habits of a subculture or slavishly following the latest popular mainstream trends, and it's really pretty simple: wear what you like, listen to what you like, do what you like. I'm not going to pretend that the perfect shade of red lipstick I'm swooning over at the department store make-up counter doesn't have millions of dollars worth of marketing and trend-spotting behind it, but that's not why I'm buying it. I've been wearing red lipstick all my life, and that looks like a particularly awesome shade. Score! Yes maybe I'm blissfully unaware that the evil fashion machine is manipulating me, or maybe I just choose to ignore it, but that's kind of my point. It's futile to try and dissect my motives. Maybe I had a favorite aunt that wore that shade. Maybe I saw an old 1940's movie and a favorite actress wore that shade. I can tell you what I'm not thinking though - I'm not thinking "Vogue said this was THE lipstick for fall," or "everybody at that dive bar I go to on Saturday night wears this shade." And here's the other thing - if it is a trendy shade, I'm not going to refuse to buy it just to prove I'm not a cog in the fashion machine.

Also, I like Coldplay. There, I said it.
posted by Evangeline at 7:17 AM on September 19, 2009 [2 favorites]

where do you stand on the Mods vs. Rockers, huh?

this is mod territory so i just try to keep my head down
ready ready teddy!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:42 AM on September 19, 2009

kittens for breakfast: "rockism" v. something called ... "poptism""

Rockism is a dismissal of all that is not hard rock. To see what I like that rockists dislike so much, see my recent noise FPP. Pop is the rockist's favorite thing to hate, but not the only thing they hate.
posted by idiopath at 7:57 AM on September 19, 2009

I feel like I should elaborate: it is not that rockists only like rock, but the fact that they dismiss everyone else's music as not being authentic, not being manly enough, or whatever. They will talk about music as if rock is the only kind of music that exists. And they, at least at one time, made up the majority of music critics.
posted by idiopath at 8:18 AM on September 19, 2009

In fairness, though, idiopath, I think a lot of people who generally gravitate toward pop music would also not be fans of noise. (I kinda dig it in small doses.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:19 AM on September 19, 2009

People. Please stop it with the big fucking sunglasses.

But they're so functional- being big makes them extra good at their job of being sunglasses. Working hard, good at their job- they're like the anti-hipster.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:33 AM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

kittens for breakfast: not being a fan is fine. I am talking about that arrogant attitude that denies all other kinds of music any legitimate right to exist. They talk like a bunch of fascists ready to implement their final solution to all non-rock musics. It may have originated in hyperbole, but it is ignorant, obnoxious, and not funny any more.
posted by idiopath at 8:49 AM on September 19, 2009

it's never chic to be in love with something

This.
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:10 AM on September 19, 2009

Further proof that the earpiece makes the douchebag, there is apparently now a blog dedicated to bluetooth douchebags.

(a notion that I wholeheartedly concur with)
posted by Afroblanco at 10:37 AM on September 19, 2009

YES! Hipster hate is sillier than hipsterhood, I don't feel comfortable judging Juggalos and that people-at-Wal-Mart blog is just icky. I was starting to worry that this would be the summer where I stopped Othering and Judging people! Thank god for Bluetooth Douchebags - this blog is a much needed dose of Feeling Superior.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:09 AM on September 19, 2009

But she's fourteen, which is the right age to reclaim "scene kid" as the new cool.

As the older sibling of a 14-year-old girl, I can attest that Kids These Days are self-describing as "scene" without any idea that the term has ever been used pejoratively. However, my impression from her is that "scene" kids listen to pop-punk and wear wristbands and look something like this guy - all of which suggests a slightly different subculture from the Belle and Sebastian/rides a fixie/lives in Portland set.
posted by naoko at 11:15 AM on September 19, 2009

The World Famous: "And is the term "douchebag" really an appropriate epithet to be throwing around indiscriminately?"

It would be inappropriate to be discriminatory in throwing it around.

I'm pretty damn discriminatory in my use of insults - I differentiate between those that deserve an insult (by my own indecipherable metrics) and those that do not. I tend only to apply the thrown insult to the former. On MetaFilter, however, I tend to try and avoid insults altogether. Operative word being 'try'.
posted by Dysk at 11:49 AM on September 19, 2009

My 14-year-old daughter is sitting right here. She describes the guy in naoko's link as "punk," (which kills me). This is what she calls "scene, trending towards raver."
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:11 PM on September 19, 2009

The Whelk: "it's never chic to be in love with something"

My defense of fashion and hipsterdom in this thread are not self defense. I have had a number of friends who were hipsters because I happened to have a longstanding and very vocal love (and passion) for some things that became briefly hip.

I am as unfashionable as any other overweight Linux nerd who would rather sit at home and browse the internet than go to your party. But I do feel a need to stand up for my past friends who did mean something to me back when what I happened to be into was briefly cool. It may not be chic to be in love with something, but chic people are really fascinated by folks who still have the ability to find something worth loving.

I got to be a token cool kid for a few years, so I get upset when I see people gratuitously picking on the cool kids.
posted by idiopath at 12:25 PM on September 19, 2009

I can't imagine anyone who'd align with such privileged, poseur values. Anyways, back to posting on Metafilter.

I was at Chipotle with an old friend and saw a gaggle of hipsters on their non-fixie bicycles (obviously there has been some significant genetic drift from Hipsterus Williamsburgus). I pointed to them and exclaimed, "How did hipsters get this far out of the art district?" And he goes "What hipsters?" And thinking I was blind, I looked at him and said, "All those hipsters at the stop light?" "Oh, those kids are hipsters?" And then I came to a realization that perhaps, only I can see hipsters and it is because I am one of them.

More broadly I would say that hipster is pretty much the dominant youth aesthetic, at least comparable to grunge and hippies. If that is the case I feel as if I kind of hit it in the Newport Folk Festival years and am still surprised that people are just now getting into it. My biggest fear is that a Woodstock type festival will emerge out of Coachella or SXSW and it'll have maybe one good band like Arcade Fire and the rest will be Lady Gaga and the like and kids in the future will ask me what it was like to see "Poker Face" live and I'll just sigh and tell them that in my day, only Ivy League kids got to play on Facebook.
posted by geoff. at 12:27 PM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

This is what she calls "scene, trending towards raver."

That linked person is a Mefite, right? So, is she a hipster? Because she seems comfortable enough here.
posted by pracowity at 12:58 PM on September 19, 2009

That linked person is a Mefite, right? So, is she a hipster? Because she seems comfortable enough here.

She also seems to be modeling those clothes...I can't imagine she, like, goes to the drugstore like that. Although that would be awesome, and she would have my eternal admiration.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:15 PM on September 19, 2009

Hey, just, you know, for the record, I'm not judging her, or anything. Genuine enthusiasm, for just about anything, be it funky clothing or fixed-gear bicycles or knitting, is the most attractive quality I can think of, in friends or a partner. I think that's what the whelk was alluding to earlier--cool people hate enthusiasm, therefore real (dare I say, authentic) hipsters will always be objects of popular derision. But then there's a very noticeable hipsterism-as-fashion-statement trend among the cool kids going on at the same time. Very confusing.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:28 PM on September 19, 2009

Juliet Banana proudly calls herself a hipster, and does a remarkable job of not getting defensive about the amount of hipster hate here.
posted by idiopath at 1:28 PM on September 19, 2009

Juliet Banana is a classy lady.

(P.S how goes the Halloween costume?)
posted by The Whelk at 1:35 PM on September 19, 2009

I met JB at the last Chicago meetup and she is cool as shit. She, too, likes making fun of hipsters in a good natured manner.

How 'bout we just don't hate on anybody? Yaay? zoomorphic wins the thread.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:44 PM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

Hello hello, this is Juliet Banana, the girl wearing every eye-raping color of the rainbow in MrMoonPie's link up there.

That linked person is a Mefite, right? -pracowity

That was actually the outfit I wore to the Chicago meetup! That quote in the link is from Mefi's own Windigo.

She also seems to be modeling those clothes...I can't imagine she, like, goes to the drugstore like that. -kittens for breakfast

I take photos of my everyday outfits. I really do dress like that. I admit, I'll be sure to photograph my outfit if I'm dressed up for a party and I might skip a day where I'm sick and wearing an Alexey Pajitnov t-shirt and boxers on the couch, but yeah, I do a lot of shopping for authentic tortilla chips at the drug store in outfits like that.

Juliet Banana proudly calls herself a hipster, and does a remarkable job of not getting defensive about the amount of hipster hate here. -idiopath

I admit, I do call myself a hipster mostly because it seems completely silly to wear big unfashionable/fashionable glasses frames (which I really do need to see) and weird clothes (which I really do feel most comfortable wearing) and ride a vintage bicycle (which I really do use to get around) and listen to obscure breakcore noise music (which I really do enjoy dancing to) and go to underground parties (with people and friends I actually enjoy the company of) and then say BUT I'M NOT A HIPSTER!

I mean, I admitted I drank Pabst Blue Ribbon in the 10th Anniversary Podcast. If anyone's expecting me to cry over getting called out as a hipster, they're sadly mistaken.

I phrased it like this to a Mefite-friend:

"Sure, it has a lot of negative connotations, but I always thought the FUCK HIPSTERS attitude being spouted from the lips of art students in ripped up paint splattered jeans was simply more posturing."

I can't be upset by the hipster hate because it's so silly. Really. One of my top tags on Metafilter is "hipsterhatebait." A lot of it seems misguided; "I FUCKING HATE THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTERESTS AND ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THEM AND LEAVE THE HOUSE AND DO THINGS!"

I'm living the life I love. When I throw a crazy themed party, it's because no one has ever done it before and I think it would be fun, not because I want to be so quirky. When I go to a show, it's not because I want my photo taken by party photographers, it's because I want to see the DJ. When I get dressed in the morning, I want to make myself smile in the mirror, not impress anyone with how well I fit in.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:59 PM on September 19, 2009 [57 favorites]

> I want to say, "Oh, why don't you just knock it off for a while?"

because it makes us happy? costumes>uniforms.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:07 PM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

> "bad girls" with the angry/sexy expressions and the combat boots...

not that I have any personal investment whatever in this discussion. *cough*
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:09 PM on September 19, 2009

Juliet Banana is WAY cool omg. Don't get beaten down, girl. They jealous.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:17 PM on September 19, 2009

Hello? Halloween costume ideas? This is what this thread is about, now.


It depends if you wanna look AMAZING and go out in public in GLITTER and shit or if you wanna be *funny*. Like if JB was going for *funny*, she should totally just wear a flannel shirt over a faded t-shirt, mom jeans, dime-store snakers, and a name tag saying "HELLO MY NAME IS : The Ghost Of Grunge".
posted by The Whelk at 3:36 PM on September 19, 2009

What annoys me about hipsters is that I am perpetually out of fashion, but like right after I finally give up on wearing something and throw it out, it becomes cool again.
posted by empath at 3:38 PM on September 19, 2009

I'm going to an early-nineties themed Halloween party. It's a perfect storm of unfashionable irony nobody could enjoy engaging in. I guess I'll have to be Courtney Love or something.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:51 PM on September 19, 2009

Whelk, you can never just fit in and talk about Halloween costumes in the designated threads, can you? You just want to stand out and be sooooo wacky and individual. What are you, some kind of hipster?

My boyfriend and I have a few couple-costume ideas brewing (ARTIE THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD and LITTLE PETE!!!*) that require him being able to figure out our roommate's sewing machine, so as a back up I'm planning a solo-costume.

I think I might go as my middle name and dress up like a cupcake.** Dress with a poofy, petticoated bottom as the cupcake paper, and a pink feather boa wrapped around my shoulders as the frosted top of the cupcake. I'm trying to figure out how one crafts a giant fake cherry and then attaches it to a headband.

*Oddly enough, this costume does involve dressing pretty much like The Ghost of Grunge, seeing as The Adventures of Pete and Pete aired in the early nineties.

**I get Memail every time I mention this and while I enjoy hearing from y'all, yes, my real legal middle name really is legally Cupcake. Really.
posted by Juliet Banana at 4:23 PM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

"I'm trying to figure out how one crafts a giant fake cherry and then attaches it to a headband."

Craft foam ball+brass coat hanger stem; spray paint red.

You can also use one of those foam dodge balls (usually gray polyurethane foam), spray paint red, hollow out part of the inside and make it a hat (attach black or red chin strap on inside).
posted by klangklangston at 4:54 PM on September 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

A pink or yellow 60s-ish party dress covered in sprinkles or thematic allusions thereof (sparkles, dots, ACTUAL CANDY, etc), baby-doll makeup, sparkly sparkly shoes, and a white parasol with a red "cherry" pop-pop on top. Maybe a ribbon round your neck or stick those cupcake decorations ("Happy Birthday!") all up in your hair like pins.

You also need a bright pink purse full of candy to give out. Maybe some pepper-mint patterned stockings. The more fruit or candy related pins you can stick on the better. I know you can find cheap berry-fruit-candy shaped earrings on the INTERNET, plus they'd be totally cute in everyday wear.

Call yourself Strawberry Shortpants.

No idea what I'm going to wear. I can fall back on dressing like Fry, but ehhhhhh.
posted by The Whelk at 5:23 PM on September 19, 2009

I'm going to an early-nineties themed Halloween party. It's a perfect storm of unfashionable irony nobody could enjoy engaging in. I guess I'll have to be Courtney Love or something.

Blossom.

Big, big hats.
posted by The Whelk at 5:24 PM on September 19, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm going to an early-nineties themed Halloween party.

I'm attending no such party, but I could: my wife and I are planning on being Daria and Cornholio this year.
posted by Bookhouse at 5:35 PM on September 19, 2009

Being that I have short blonde hair, and would love to buy a Daniel Jonston tee, my next question is: is Dead Kurt Cobain too edgy?
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:41 PM on September 19, 2009

Zombie Kurt Cobain just fine.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:55 PM on September 19, 2009

I went as dead Sid Vicious once, in college. "Sid" became my nickname after that.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:57 PM on September 19, 2009

See now, I just wanted to pile on about hipsters. Seems to me they're dressed for Halloween everyday.
posted by valentinepig at 8:05 PM on September 19, 2009

hipsters > guidos

Not true.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:07 AM on September 20, 2009

The Whelk: Halloween costume ideas?

My downstairs neighbor is a special effects makeup artist so I really need to come up with a good idea but I haven't thought of anything good yet (last year I went as a gangland hitjob victim, which is the origin of my profile pic photo).
posted by Kattullus at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2009

I don't know Juliet Banana, but I did check out her flickr page, and she comes across as a super fun, open, genuine person who genuinely loves life** and who I would probably enjoy hanging around with***. The last thing I would have said is "what a hipster". Maybe I am in the minority here and hence lookin' down on the wrong people, but to me hipsters are attended by a certain "insincere sincerity" which is like the exact opposite of youth. I mean, hipsters to me are likle ignorant beatniks: they hold the same books in the cafe, but the beatniks actually read them.

So, Ms. Banana, if I have ever hated on a hipster here and you felt your shoulder pads sag, I am sorry. You were collateral damage in the Culture Wars.

** if her parents named her "Cupcake" then she may have had a bit of a running start on teh fun.

*** as a monkey hangs around with a banana
posted by Rumple at 9:39 AM on September 20, 2009

I'm actually a bit torn my costume this year. I want something that compliments my face, but I have no idea who/what I look like. Mental blind spot.

Before And After Ablution.

I'm learning toward BGS crewman on shore leave, but I think I'd haveta be thinner to pull it off.
posted by The Whelk at 9:41 AM on September 20, 2009

Whelk, you're going to hate me so much for this, but if your hair is still black you'd make a good Elvis. It gives you a good excuse to take enough uppers and downers to kill a donkey and convince one of your friends to dress as Nixon!

Also, the hair's wrong, but everyone with a goatee should be Aphex Twin* from Windowlicker**. My friend did this one year and I helped him create the umbrella. Seriously, fly me to NYC, I'll bring my fabric paint and foam brushes, we'll get drunk on botanically infused cocktails and make an umbrella.

*or rather, his mask-wearing stand in, if we want to get all technical

**there is extremely NSFW language about a second into this and jiggly butts later on
posted by Juliet Banana at 11:57 AM on September 20, 2009

A great Aphex Twin costume requires an entourage of terrifying children, however (video probably not awesome for work or anywhere at all).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2009

The problem with dressing like Elvis is that, if you leave out rhinestones, I already dress like Elvis. Plus having a friend be Nixon would just collapse reality around me until, like that Buffy episode, we all just become our masks.
posted by The Whelk at 12:53 PM on September 20, 2009

"Once, the idiots were just the fools gawping in through the windows. Now they've entered the building. You can hear them everywhere. They use the word "cool". It is their favourite word. The idiot does not think about what it is saying. Thinking is rubbish. And rubbish isn't cool. Stuff & shit is cool. The idiots are self-regarding consumer slaves, oblivious to the paradox of their uniform individuality. They sculpt their hair to casual perfection, they wear their waistbands below their balls, they babble into hand-held twit machines about that cool email of the woman being bummed by a wolf. Their cool friend made it. He's an idiot too. Welcome to the age of stupidity.
Hail to the rise of the idiots…"
posted by turgid dahlia at 1:34 PM on September 20, 2009

Once, the idiots were just the fools gawping in through the windows. Now they've entered the building.

But isn't that better than when they were standing on your lawn?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:37 PM on September 20, 2009 [1 favorite]

Whelk, are you cool with shaving? I KNOW you must own a suit (otherwise you are king of talking the dapper talk yet walking to slovenly walk); add a pair of lensless geekster glasses and you could do a decent Ira Glass. You would pull more middle class liberals than the Obama election, homes.
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:44 PM on September 20, 2009

My moustache grows wonky in exactly the same way as the guy from District 9 so does anybody know how I'd pull off a convincing prawn hand for halloween?
posted by minifigs at 3:07 PM on September 20, 2009

Juliet is wicked cool! And she was so bright and shiny that when we went to the Museum of Contemporary Art here in Chicago and walked down the hallway exhibit that consists of lighting that turns everybody/thing black and white...SHE WAS STILL BRIGHT AND SHINY!

She made the color spectrum her bitch, basically.

Also, for Halloween my boyfriend is going as Bob Ross....and I'm going as a Happy Little Tree.
posted by Windigo at 4:36 PM on September 20, 2009 [1 favorite]

Oh, that's awesome. When you hinted about your awesome couple-costume on Facebook and refused to tell I knew it must be good, but that is better than I could have ever expected.

Can Mark carry a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross painting a painting of Bob Ross?
posted by Juliet Banana at 5:22 PM on September 20, 2009 [1 favorite]

I have this jacket. It is my favorite thing ever that isn't a linen 3-piece suit. I also have some classic dark blue Levis and some fuck-you boots. I was thinking of getting some goggles, a red t-shirt with a logo on it (in yellow) some off-yellow gloves, and a combination leather belt-flask kit.

I'd be Jack, the 2nd tier Superhero.
posted by The Whelk at 6:23 PM on September 20, 2009

UNAIRED INTERVIEW WITH JACK FOR WQXP RADIO, "IT'S A BIRD, IT'S A PLANE" WITH LYNDA LARABEE.

LYNDA: I'm here tonight with one of Queen's most well known local Superhero, Jack, from Astoria New York. Jack has been supering the Astoria area for over two years now, and he's agreed to come on and talk about his experiences, welcome to the Show Jack.

JACK: Happy to be here Lynda ! (laughs).

LYNDA: Let's start with the basics, why Jack? Why not another name like Spider-Man or Superman Or the Dark Knight or something like that?

JACK: Well, I-ugh didn't think I should hide. About anything. I didn't wanna set myself up as something so grand and aha-ha-like really overblown or something like that. I'm Jack youknow, I didn't wanna hide or be tragic or anything like that.

LYNDA: and your costume:

JACK: Just my dad's jacket and some boots and things I got at Amry-Navy, oh! except for the shirt, of course, you know with the Bomb on it-cause I'm da bomb-laughs-yeah I got that at Reja's Printing, over on Steinway, they'll do you up right, Reja's a good guy.

LYNDA: And what are your super-powers?

JACK: Cut to the point do you? I uh- I can fly, of course, I'm kinda fast, I'm like ..stronger than I should be? A bit, and I can take pain better and I heal pretty fast. Like, yeah don't shoot me point blank or nuthing

LYNDA: (laughs)

JACK: But I'm pretty strong and resilient, like more than most. That's why they call it super, I guess,(laughs). Uhh- I don't really, like do full time the Supering thing. Like, we don't have a lot of crime here in Astoria. It's a nice neighborhood, a good place to live, and you know I don't got to go out every night and like "stalk the streets in search of vile villainy" or anything like that.

LYNDA: You don't go out every night?

JACK: Uh no. I'd say I go out every other night, or second, at least twice a week, I'd say.

LYNDA: A lot of the local police and fire departments have expressed concern over the role of Supers in the local government. They call it "vigilantism" What do you think of that?

JACK: Well Lynda I really think I'm a part of the police department. I didn't mean it like that, wait, more like an unpaid arm, you know, a community response. I don't ask to be paid or be praised or anything, and I don't think I'm above the-the fine men on the Force or people who have committed their lives to working-no, I'm just helping, when I can. And like I said, not full time (laughs)

LYNDA: I'm told you keep a "day job", so to speak. Can you talk about that?

JACK: I tend bar. Over at Mikey's. It's right there in the open, I even wear the shirt to work -haha- everyone knows I'm the Super one so, uh they always know I'll fill them up quickly.

LYNDA: Like with the costume and the name.

JACK: Yes I guess, I just want everything I know out in the open, with no kinds of dramatic secrets of nuthin-that's not we run at Mikey's.

LYNDA: Is Mikey's a particular kind of bar?

JACK: It's a neighborhood bar, you know, an Irish place on the corner, and you could call it a "gay bar" but I don't really think you'd call it that cause we don't have naked guys or dance music or 20 dollar cocktails. It's just a nice neighborhood place where people can be themselves and relax and have a beer. Cause I don't like those kinds of rules or something, that like being gay or workin' in a gay bar makes you different or a werido.

LYNDA: But by working there, you are asking questions about your personal life. Several members of the LGBSA have asked you to-

JACK: I'm not gonna answer that (laughs) and they can say whatever they like, if you wanna know more you'll got to get me know me better. But, you can't hate people for hidin' things and you shouldn't have to hide nuthin. I'm not hiding anything, I'm just don't like being like told I have to. Look, you can't hate someone for loving, you know, you can't do that. I would never hate anyone for lovin' anyone

LYNDA: I see, moving on ... A lot of people ask about your necklace the-

JACK: The acorn yah! Look! I got it put in gold, take a look there. It was when I first realized I was Super, about 2 years ago. Some girl was getting' robbed in front of me and-mind you I was drinking that night-but I just freaked out, I got fucked up and I just screamed and ...picked up an acron and threw it at him.

LYNDA: Yes of course-

JACK: And BAM! It shot right through his neg like a shot, like a bullet, and he got off her and like started to ..limp away! Ahaha.

LYNDA: And that's when you first realized you-

JACK: Was Super, yea. It took a while to sink in, but then I started to like, break doors and glasses and hey! Maybe I'm SUPER OR SHIT and haha yeah I went down to the Brooklyn Office to get tested and then, there it was, me, Superhero. (laughs)

LYNDA: Do you feel this obligation is warranted, for all the good it does? I mean, You're not Reed Richards, you could settle into normal society. Isn't it stressful at times?

JACK: I do what I want do you. I don't have any more rights or obligations than any other person,- - - I just have more ability to work with it, to ..do something. That's all, it's all obligatory, I could stop tomorrow. I'm not gonna, but ahaha- I could stop tomorrow.
posted by The Whelk at 8:16 PM on September 20, 2009 [2 favorites]

i got mugged in astoria because i don't know jack
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 PM on September 20, 2009 [1 favorite]

He was probably sleeping it off that night.
posted by The Whelk at 7:42 AM on September 21, 2009

PLEASE STOP JULIET BANANA
posted by ludwig_van at 9:54 AM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't usually dress up for halloween because I have the sartorial creativity of a lump of granite, and the body of an unemployed manual laborer basement dwelling Linux nerd.

Perhaps I will dress up as the agoraphobic curmudgeon using his computer at home because he is afraid to interact with you face to face.

I am thinking this involves not shaving, not wearing pants, and having bloodshot eyes and a bad haircut.

I think I have my costume pretty much ready.
posted by idiopath at 10:01 AM on September 21, 2009

"I FUCKING HATE THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTERESTS AND ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THEM AND LEAVE THE HOUSE AND DO THINGS!"

No. I hate it that these things are now apparently attached to fashion.

I hate any trend that seems to increase judgments based on fashion, and this one bugs particularly because it's run over some things related to my identity. It drives me bonkers that I apparently might be seen as more artsy or geeky if I just sported a few different signals.

Part of that is that I'm considerably less interested in the signals than I am in the actual stuff. I have enough musical and technical interests to keep me occupied through more than one or two human lifetimes, and that's to say nothing of other stuff I enjoy, and spending time figuring out how to make a look work for me takes away from that. I do it sometimes because I recognize it has certain returns, but I don't like it much.

However, the bigger part is that I resent what often seems like a shallow judgment. When I'm around people I recognize as hipsters, I tend to feel less visible. Like something about my appearance isn't convincing anybody that I have a certain kind of cultural credibility. This isn't unique to the hipsters, I've certainly felt it elsewhere, and I recognize that everybody uses heuristics (and that they will almost all eventually lead you astray). But the thing is, this particular subculture is supposed to be extra-conscious about issues of substance vs style and it's supposed to have at its heart some of the things I'm actually most interested in and passionate about.
posted by weston at 11:28 AM on September 21, 2009 [3 favorites]

weston: "this particular subculture is supposed to be extra-conscious about issues of substance vs style"

Maybe you were thinking of country and western? Or punk?

If you don't like fashion, don't follow it. The people who are shallow enough to only care about fashion will ignore you, which helps you select the people who may actually be compatible friends.

The way you talk about hipsters sounds more like a boogeyman upon which you project social insecurities than any person I have ever met, and I recently moved from Olympia to Portland, two of the biggest hipster capitals of this country.
posted by idiopath at 11:47 AM on September 21, 2009

I mean, I'm the lamest apologist for hipsters ever. I poke gentle fun as much as anyone, and I very rarely self-identify (not because of the whole HIPSTERS WON'T ADMIT THEY ARE HIPSTERS thing but because labels are stupid and one word can never possibly sum up all that I am). I'm sure there are hipsters out there who deserve to be hated, and I'm not going to sit in this thread defending them forever. Hipsters are all special snowflakes too, kids, and the "scene" is in most cases just a group of friends in a certain place at a certain time who like certain things, not a faction of some shadowy scenester cabal.

But I have to jump in to reply to Weston and say yeah, idiopath is spot on that no one is making you feel socially insecure and like you don't have a certain kind of cultural credibility; you're the one making you feel that way. Cosmopolitan Magazine doesn't make the anorexic girl feel fat; her fucked up self image does.

Just the regarding musical and technical interests you mentioned, this Thursday I'm doing to Dorkbot, a local circuit bending DIY workshop where an acquaintance is going to show me and close friends and total strangers how he made his MIDI control from an Xbox controller. I can tell you right now, most of the people there are going to be in t-shirts and jeans and sneakers (the Metafilter uniform, perhaps). They're not going to be checking for clubmasters and sherbet sneaks and whatever cliche y'all picked up off Hipster Runoff's Alt Bingo Sheets at the door. No one is going to talk shit about anyone's appearance, and no one's going to get shunned because they didn't get the memo that OMG WAYFARERS ARE SO OUT DUDE WHERE DID YOU GET THOSE, URBAN OUTFITTERS? PSSSSSH.

It's going to be interesting people sharing things they're interested in, and it just kills me that people would miss out on something so vital to community and culture because they're judging the people involved by thinking they would even bother judging them.

Hipsters looking down on mainstreamers is about as common as gay people snarking about breeders or goths complaining about normies. It's generally only done by immature people who have nothing better to do. If you don't feel comfortable and confident,, you might want to take a look inside rather than blame it on people who happen to like certain things and, sometimes, dress a certain way.

Sigh. So, Weston, what are you gonna be for Halloween?
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:13 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wait, Wayfarers are out already? Goddammit.
posted by minifigs at 12:23 PM on September 21, 2009

I wouldn't say they're so much "out" as just not "in." I still wear the two pairs I got relensed in my prescription, because who cares.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:36 PM on September 21, 2009

Juliet Banana: one word can never possibly sum up all that I am

True, one needs a number for that.
posted by Kattullus at 12:37 PM on September 21, 2009

True, one needs a number for that.

NATURAL 20, MOTHERFUCKERS
posted by Greg Nog at 1:00 PM on September 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

Greg Nog: "NATURAL 20, MOTHERFUCKERS"

Seeing as I am generally critical of all I see, and objectively speaking, a failure in my life so far, I can only surmise that I must be a natural 1.
posted by idiopath at 1:02 PM on September 21, 2009

I uploaded a photo of bacon yesterday. Just trying to keep up.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:02 PM on September 21, 2009 [2 favorites]

Wait, Wayfarers are out already? Goddammit.

Wayfarers are always okay, if not cutting edge. They're the blue blazer of sunglasses.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:39 PM on September 21, 2009

Just the regarding musical and technical interests you mentioned, this Thursday I'm doing to Dorkbot, a local circuit bending DIY workshop where an acquaintance is going to show me and close friends and total strangers how he made his MIDI control from an Xbox controller.

Dorkbotters in the hooouse, yeah.

(Over here, it's Wednesday, & it involves SRL, chocolate, & a light-up umbrella.)
posted by Pronoiac at 3:01 PM on September 21, 2009

Chocolate? We have pizza and beer. Are you sure your Dorkbot group isn't a front for a ladies' social that discusses Oprah's latest Book Club Pick?

Totally kidding, and secretly jealous.
posted by Juliet Banana at 3:27 PM on September 21, 2009

Hee!

It's a social club with fire!
posted by Pronoiac at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2009

Wayfarers are out. My busted knock-offs that I've repaired with electrical tape are in like medicine.
posted by klangklangston at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2009

Wait, so you're saying you don't like Jack, the blue collar 2nd tier superhero? Cause I just GOT new boots.
posted by The Whelk at 6:48 PM on September 21, 2009

If you don't like fashion, don't follow it. The people who are shallow enough to only care about fashion will ignore you, which helps you select the people who may actually be compatible friends.

This is pretty much the way I operate. I still find the fashion bar annoying.

I mean, seriously: is the idea that fashion should communicate passion about certain things really credible in itself?

But I have to jump in to reply to Weston and say yeah, idiopath is spot on that no one is making you feel socially insecure and like you don't have a certain kind of cultural credibility; you're the one making you feel that way. Cosmopolitan Magazine doesn't make the anorexic girl feel fat; her fucked up self image does.

This isn't particularly strong argument for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it seems pretty likely media portrayals do contribute to insecurity. But the one I have the biggest problem with is the apparent assertion that even if the kind of judgments I'm talking about are going on, the real problem here is internal to me or anybody else who doesn't like the way that feels. Pretty much lets the subculture off the hook, doesn't it? I'd prefer to hear that I'm misinterpreting behavior and those judgments just aren't going on, though I'd be skeptical.

...Dorkbot, a local circuit bending DIY workshop where an acquaintance is going to show me and close friends and total strangers how he made his MIDI control from an Xbox controller. I can tell you right now, most of the people there are going to be in t-shirts and jeans and sneakers.. They're not going to be checking for clubmasters and sherbet sneaks...

And I go to some technical and music gatherings that fit that description... in fact, I tend to go back to those, because they're the ones where people are there not because it reinforces their identity as cool and vibrant people (though it probably does) but because they're just into this stuff and they want to talk to and hang out with other people who are.

Sigh. So, Weston, what are you gonna be for Halloween?

Maybe this will be the year I pull off dressing as centripetal force.
posted by weston at 8:16 PM on September 21, 2009

I mean, seriously: is the idea that fashion should communicate passion about certain things really credible in itself?

Yes.

Humans use creativity to communicate ideas. Painting, sculpting, cooking, programming, writing, dancing, film making, acting, singing, playing an instrument; these are all ways to show the world some inner spark, some idea, that goes on inside of you. How is fashion any different of an art form?
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:03 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

Juliet Banana: "how is fashion any different of an art form?"

I think what intimidates many of us nerds about fashion is that we are bad at it and there is actually no way not to be doing it.

My flute playing is terrible. So I don't mess with a flute if anyone is listening. My fashion sense is terrible but there is no way to opt out and also leave the house.

Not that hating some poorly defined group that is theoretically judging us helps that situation any, of course.
posted by idiopath at 10:32 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]

Dear Miss Banana,

Would you do me, please? I am not actually going to a costume party, but just for fun I would like your expert opinion on what I should theoretically go as.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:43 PM on September 21, 2009

I'm actually old enough to have been involved in a few scenes, and I think that on average, in terms of judgementalness, hipsters=ravers=emo=goths.

All of them are much more 'let your freak flag fly' than your average hip-hop club/college night/suburban bar kind of crowd, I think. All those scenes have their own little quirks and shibboleths, but nobody is going to sneer at you for being out of fashion. In general, they're mostly just a few years away from being the weird kid in high school that everyone made fun of, anyway.
posted by empath at 10:45 PM on September 21, 2009

TOMORROW , or such, is the EQUINOX, when I am HONOR BOUND to talk to MORTALS. So, so go ahead, mefimail me for phone details, but if you are IN NYC and around Manhattan around 1-7, I am DUTY BOUND to hang out, it is simply in in my blood.
posted by The Whelk at 10:48 PM on September 21, 2009

I think part of the antipathy might be that any scenester only makes sense in the context of their particular scene. And most of the people bitching about hipsters (or ravers or emo kids or whatever the next trendy thing is going to be) have never actually gone out and partied with them and so Just Don't Get It.
posted by empath at 10:55 PM on September 21, 2009

So which glasses are in style? I need new ones and I want cool fashionable glasses. The problem is that I am most uncool and unfashionable myself. I look like the pic in my profile except 15 years older with less hairspray.
posted by little e at 10:56 PM on September 21, 2009

these obviously.

(i'm kidding don't wear those)
posted by empath at 11:30 PM on September 21, 2009

heheh, I would like to send a pair of those off to one of those re-lensing places to see what they'd say.
posted by little e at 11:34 PM on September 21, 2009

Meatbomb, you should go as your profile pic. It is the scariest thing I have ever seen.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:10 AM on September 22, 2009

I only wish I had the balls to dress up like Juliet Banana and Ambrosia Voyeur do. Seriously, you two are awesome.
posted by IndigoRain at 3:08 PM on October 7, 2009