Further China-like Censorship November 11, 2009 9:27 AM   Subscribe

Don't Believe In Sex Before Marriage? Don't Bother Saying it in a Comment, It'll Be Deleted

The admins (and possibly the comment-flagging readers?) here apparently continue their insistence on censoring viewpoints based on content.

About a week ago, there was one not-so-young lady who was asking for tips on how to have her first kiss etc. In my answer, I encouraged her to remember that anything she gives away to a passing stranger is a gift she can never give to a life partner, although I don't remember the exact wording.

The admins deleted it (or maybe it was lost in the database?). So I sent a question about this to the admins through the contact form. It was not answered after 2 days. So I sent a personal email to the owner. He asked what was the problem and said that contact form entries are usually answered within a few minutes. I explained to him, and there was no further response from him in 2 days.

I'm not saying that this website "should" respect freedom of speech in a different way, of course it's the owner's site and he can do whatever he wants as long as its legal, and I'm not saying his way of running the ship is illegal. I'm just pointing out what goes on here. Typical of the illiberal state of affairs in reactionary left wing contemporary circles.
posted by peter_meta_kbd to Etiquette/Policy at 9:27 AM (123 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite

Flame out... eject eject eject
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:31 AM on November 11, 2009 [10 favorites]


Ask Metafilter has an inherent policy: if it isn't responsive to the question, and if it challenges the actual initial scenario of the question, it doesn't belong there.

I.e., if a woman is going to have an abortion and wants advice as to safe providers in her city, a response challenging the abortion itself doesn't belong in that thread, and will be deleted.

That's not because the admins censor viewpoints they disagree with; it's because admins delete any responses that don't answer the question.

Your response didn't answer the question. It challenged the initial scenario of the question. Thus, it was deleted.

(I ain't an admin.)
posted by WCityMike at 9:31 AM on November 11, 2009 [33 favorites]


I've always wanted to be a member of an illiberal reactionary left wing contemporary circle.

I "should" thank you, Metafilter.
posted by Vectorcon Systems at 9:32 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


Typical of the illiberal state of affairs in reactionary left wing contemporary circles.

oh just fuck off.
posted by pinky at 9:34 AM on November 11, 2009 [66 favorites]


Well, I'm sorry, but... we don't open for the "no sex oaths" until 9am.
posted by mullacc at 9:36 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Everyone needs a hug. However, each hug you give is one less hug for your life partner.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [104 favorites]


I don't recall getting any message from you via the contact form and I answer most of the mail. You seem to not like it here and take great offense at what are just the day to day operations of a website that has human moderators. AskMe is more heavily moderated than the rest of the site. If I recall your comment it has something to do with congratulating the women asking the question for being a virgin and hit a tone that was problematic in the context of the thread. Sorry to not give you more feedback. You might want to try the contact form again before writing a ranty MetaTalk post.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [17 favorites]


reactionary left wing

How the fuck does that work?
posted by mr_roboto at 9:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


No one cares what you believe.

Sorry, Snowflake.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:38 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


Your response did not answer the question; therefore, it was deleted. You are not the first person nor will you be the last to have answers deleted for not answering the question but rather offering up an irrelevant opinion. You need to stop posting and lurk more, as it is clear you do not understand MetaFilter's protocols.

Also, saying "Chinalike Censorship" is dumb as fuck and you are overreacting like an enormous man-sized baby. Isn't the idea of a baby as big as a full-grown dude ridiculous? It is. It is a ridiculous idea. And yet, here we have it: a comically oversized baby.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:38 AM on November 11, 2009 [85 favorites]


This reminds me of how China runs their metafilter.
posted by Pants! at 9:38 AM on November 11, 2009 [15 favorites]


Typical of the illiberal state of affairs in reactionary left wing contemporary circles.

I come to Metafilter partly because I can depend on it to be relatively free of preachy bulllshit from the religious right. It's got enough ill-informed horseshit from the reality-based community to deal with that the low-hanging fruit of fundies can be spotted easily and destroyed. Blame your Christian community for poisoning the dialogue before you come here to complain.
posted by docpops at 9:39 AM on November 11, 2009 [25 favorites]


It was this askme thread.

Your exact phrasing was:

you're a lucky girl to still be a virgin. don't waste it on a fling or something that you think is easy, that's my only advice. be patient and be open to something serious if it appears, but if not, don't give such a gift to a stranger because then you can't give it to your life partner.

Which as an answer to a question about taking the first steps into dating was pretty much out of nowhere and picked up flags quickly. If you can't keep an answer in the same neighborhood as the question, do not bother to answer in the first place. Specious bullshit about China doesn't come into it.

As far as the contact form, I'm not sure what's up there—I just looked through every piece of mail I've gotten from it since the 5th, and there's nothing from you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:39 AM on November 11, 2009 [40 favorites]


Oh, I think I see the problem....the Promise Keepers meeting is down the hall and to the left. Sorry for the confusion.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 9:40 AM on November 11, 2009 [7 favorites]


mr_roboto, I often hear "reactionary left wing" from the same folks that think Hitler was a socialist because his party was called the "National Socialists".
posted by the dief at 9:40 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


oh just fuck off.

this.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:43 AM on November 11, 2009 [3 favorites]


As far as the contact form, I'm not sure what's up there

The short answer? He's full of shit.
posted by god hates math at 9:43 AM on November 11, 2009


(Would it KILL you all to hear an opinion you don't agree with once in awhile? )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:43 AM on November 11, 2009 [19 favorites]


I'll have you know that I am am a liberal reactionary. And you sir, are a poopypants.
posted by Babblesort at 9:44 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


Don't Believe In Sex Before Marriage? Don't Bother Saying it in a Comment, It'll Be Deleted

I know you're not going to believe this, but people do it all the time, so it's pretty clear that sex before marriage does exist. It feels great, too.
posted by daniel_charms at 9:44 AM on November 11, 2009 [10 favorites]


mr_roboto, I often hear "reactionary left wing" from the same folks that think Hitler was a socialist because his party was called the "National Socialists".

Yeah, but what is it supposed to mean? That this is the element of the left that wants to return to the ante status quo? What would that even mean in the context of American politics? A pro-segregationist left? The part of the left that wishes the sexual revolution never happened? I'm guessing he just doesn't know what the word "reactionary" means.

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:44 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


You seem to be in Metatalk fairly frequently, considering your posting history, questioning the wisdom of the moderators. I have had a couple of responses deleted in the past, and all of them fairly reasonably. The one time it was deleted and I felt it was unjustified, I reposted it and with the caveat "Hey mods, the first time I posted this response I gave no context and it sounded really sarcastic and snarky, but I actually meant it in earnest. Here it is again." and it stood.

I'm wondering if maybe this site is the right place for you if you have so much beef with the moderation policies.
posted by orville sash at 9:44 AM on November 11, 2009


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:45 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


Just, by the way, as a case study of this principle: there was an Ask Mefi thread where the posted mentioned that they'd just fallen into rather delirious love and they were wondering why this motivated them to do things like write poetry.

I posted a message saying something to the effect of "I don't have much to answer your question, but: awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! I'm so happy for you! Congratulations!"

It was deleted.

Why was it deleted?

I didn't answer the question.

Why didn't I gripe at the moderators?

I realized that I didn't answer the question. (Yeah, it didn't harm the OP by saying that – but it also presumably opened the possibility of the thread filling up with non-answering similar "awww" reactions, which would have had a poor effect on the usefulness of the thread to the person asking the question.)
posted by WCityMike at 9:45 AM on November 11, 2009 [6 favorites]


StAliaOfTheBunnies- fuck right off. It's not that we disagree. He didn't answer the fucking question.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 9:45 AM on November 11, 2009 [41 favorites]


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.

AskMe ain't for airing our opinions. It's for answering the questions as asked.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:46 AM on November 11, 2009 [32 favorites]


(Not particularly directed at the deletion, I agree with answers needing to be answers...simply pointing out that some of us all day long hear and see opinions WE don't agree with and manage to survive and even thrive. Docpops, I'm looking at you.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:46 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


(My comment was more directed at the people having a fit about the opinion, not necessarily at the deletion, which I am meh about.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:47 AM on November 11, 2009


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.

If this is a joke, it is an annoying one.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:47 AM on November 11, 2009 [51 favorites]


Sorry about the double answers, I'm having posting problems here....system seems buggy today.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:48 AM on November 11, 2009


Would it KILL you all to hear an opinion you don't agree with once in awhile?
Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.

I like to hear and see different opinions, but I also like AskMe to answer the question or STFU.
posted by Paid In Full at 9:48 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


It's great you guys haven't had your baby yet, you still have time to abort that sucker before she becomes a right-winged internet trolling son-of-a-bitch! I don't have any real advice except that you should be looking at stairs that are at least three stories high.

If I posted that "liberal" answer to one of the many questions asked by expectant mothers, it would be deleted just as fast as your "conservative" answer.
posted by Loto at 9:48 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


Haven't we been through something like this before with you? Along the same lines?

Ah, yes. Your very first MeTa callout.

You seem to be one of those people who occasionally crop up on the Internet: you confuse something that you consider to be self-evidently true with societal norms, and immediately assume that any attempt to correct said delusion with "censorship".

You're not being censored. You are being held to precisely the same standard as any other member of the community. The community is not going to change to meet your standards, period, end stop.

You have a choice here: you can either get on board with what MetaFilter actually is, you can continue bitching about things that are never going to change, or you can leave. I'd suggest either 1 or 3, myself, because it's clear the moderators aren't going to put up with much more of 2.
posted by scrump at 9:49 AM on November 11, 2009 [29 favorites]


you seem buggy today.
posted by gman at 9:49 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


At the risk of being unwillingly hoisted on someone else's rudely erected petard, I though I would point out that this line from the original question...

Truthfully, I've been tempted to even hire an escort, just so I can practice and gain some skills, but...something about that just seems off, so I've been holding back.

may have been confusing.
posted by jefficator at 9:49 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.

As the mods stated, this wasn't an issue of disagreement: dude didn't answer the question. This would have happened if someone had popped into a thread asking "What church should I pick to have for my wedding?" and answered, "Good on you for starting your marriage in a house of God!" Or, answering "What's your best lentil stew recipe?" with "Congratulations on being a vegetarian!"

Would it kill you to not willfully misinterpret objective moderation as liberal finger wagging?
posted by zoomorphic at 9:50 AM on November 11, 2009 [24 favorites]


Sorry about the dickish double answers, I'm having posting problems here....system seems buggy today.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:48 PM on November 11 [+] [!]

FTFY
posted by ClanvidHorse at 9:50 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Not sure what's up with the weird lag on comments appearing that a couple folks have reported, but we're looking into it. For now, don't bother resubmitting a comment if it doesn't immediately appear; give it a few minutes first.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:53 AM on November 11, 2009


I'll contact the ship's owner about it.
posted by gman at 9:54 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Hello, this thread is addressing two different things:

a) a post in ask me that did not answer the question. Okay, deleted, whatever.

b) the fact that the deletion contained an unpopular opinion, which folks such as docpops enjoyed riffing on.

I'm addressing B. You can go out and premaritally screw like bunnies if you wish but there are people in the world with differing opinions and they are just as entitled to theirs, so the rudeness about it is uncalled for.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:54 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


(Would it KILL you all to hear an opinion you don't agree with once in awhile? )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:43 AM on November 11


Do you really want MeFites answering your questions using left-wing atheist reponses? Or, for instance, in your anime question, someone saying "anime is for children"? Because I would have totally said that if there weren't, you know, rules against that sort of answer.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:54 AM on November 11, 2009 [7 favorites]


I personally would not have cared if you said "anime is for children." You are entitled to your opinion, and I always wear my big girl pants online and can handle it. ;-)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:55 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


Docpops, I'm looking at you.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:46 AM on November 11 [+] [!]


Can you stand up so I can see you?
posted by docpops at 9:56 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


You can go out and premaritally screw like bunnies if you wish but there are people in the world with differing opinions and they are just as entitled to theirs, so the rudeness about it is uncalled for.

Tell us about how bunnies screw.
posted by gman at 9:56 AM on November 11, 2009 [6 favorites]


St. Alia, you are trying to prop up a strawman, per usual, to find a way to shoehorn your dogmatic religious beliefs into the discussion. They don't really belong here. Let it go.
posted by orville sash at 9:57 AM on November 11, 2009 [25 favorites]


WHY HAVEN'T MY COMMENTS SHOWN UP, WHY ARE YOU CENSORING MY PRECIOUS SNOWFLAKES?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:57 AM on November 11, 2009 [10 favorites]


I think it's possible, peter_meta_kbd, that your answer might have stayed if you had taken more time to justify your position; to make it about the poster instead of about you. For example, several posters in the "How do I get my brother out of the Marines?" question explained why the OP should instead encourage his brother to stay in the Marines, and I imagine those viewpoints were very helpful to hear. But I bet anyone who had just dropped in and said "omg don't let him quit kthnx bai" would've found the answer deleted. You have to write your answer with providing help to the OP in mind; bombs tend to be deleted more often because they aren't helpful.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:57 AM on November 11, 2009 [7 favorites]


Can you stand up so I can see you?

I AM standing. (Not the first time I've heard that comment as a short woman, alas.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:58 AM on November 11, 2009


My common-law wife and I are heading into our twenty-third year of sinful cohabitation.

In your eye, reactionary right-wing douchebags who typically get divorced seven years after they promise before man and God to take care of one another through to the end of days!

Also, the sex is way better when you're living in a state of continual carnal sin.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:59 AM on November 11, 2009 [13 favorites]


I personally would not have cared if you said "anime is for children." You are entitled to your opinion, and I always wear my big girl pants online and can handle it. ;-)

damn woman please you flag me so much i look like the UN
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:59 AM on November 11, 2009 [116 favorites]


b) the fact that the deletion contained an unpopular opinion, which folks such as docpops enjoyed riffing on.

I'm addressing B.


You're pretty enthusiastically injecting B into a conversation that wasn't really about it, for no apparent reason. I'm not sure why you're choosing to do so here and now; this thread is already on pretty questionable ground without an unrelated fight being started.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:00 AM on November 11, 2009 [25 favorites]


Wow, it's been a while since we had a good flameout. The pressure had been building. If screaming and venting in this thread prevents people from hitting their spouses or kids, then I'm all for it.
posted by Melismata at 10:01 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


FFF as far as I'm concerned, you're hitched, dude.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:01 AM on November 11, 2009


China-like censorship would involve having the server reset inexplicably any future time you clicked a link to return to the question, with no identified agency who you had any hope of interacting with to debate or question the decision, nor any prospect of an explanation or indeed any discernible logic to the forbidden content.
I've said before that I much prefer arguing with people I have substantive disagreements with and would happily thrash out all sorts of controversial topics that don't make the cut here, but as has been pointed out, AskMe's not the place for that. So tough shit.
posted by Abiezer at 10:02 AM on November 11, 2009 [3 favorites]


A question for the mods out of curiosity (and you've probably answered this before, but...): What takes precedence? Your opinion or the volume of flagging? Ideally the two correlate, but what if they don't?
posted by jefficator at 10:02 AM on November 11, 2009


I Agree, The Mods Are Idiot Morones.
posted by Damn That Television at 10:03 AM on November 11, 2009


I actually was killed by hearing an opinion that I didn't agree with and now I am an angry vengeful ghost and you can't maaaaaaaake meeeeeee follooooooow the rulesssssssssssss!
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:04 AM on November 11, 2009 [18 favorites]


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally?

Would it kill you to have an opinion based on real-life physical facts instead of an opinion based on woo-woo faith that is demonstrably harmful to real people?
posted by five fresh fish at 10:04 AM on November 11, 2009 [22 favorites]


for no apparent reason. I'm not sure why you're choosing to do so here and now

Docpop's post, since you asked.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:04 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Oh hey, peter_meta_kbd, accusing Metafilter Mods of censorship is just so...out there. It's like you called them pizza shaped polka dotted martians from pluto, who eat Venusians, it just makes no sense.

and yes, every time I hear a different opinion from my own, baby jesus cries. WHY DO YOU WANT TO MAKE BABY JESUS CRY?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:06 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


A question for the mods out of curiosity (and you've probably answered this before, but...): What takes precedence? Your opinion or the volume of flagging? Ideally the two correlate, but what if they don't?

There's no formal precedence rule. We account for both, and when they seem to be in conflict we talk about it amongst ourselves and try to come up with a plan for how to monitor and evaluate the situation—often times the answer is "let's just watch it for a bit".

Tricky cases or cases where our personal judgement conflicts with popular opinion tend to come up in email or metatalk, which then becomes part of that conversation.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:06 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Docpop's post, since you asked.

You have mefimail and are free to have a conversation with him as you are so inclined. Staking a claim in a metatalk thread so you can have that conversation with him in public is not necessary. You know this. Please drop it and stop making this thread about your opinion about docpops' opinion.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:07 AM on November 11, 2009 [7 favorites]


The contact form believes in sex before marriage.
posted by fire&wings at 10:08 AM on November 11, 2009 [8 favorites]


For what it's worth, and I almost hate to say it because I'm bored and enjoying this, but all this discussion of the merit of the opinion the guy posted is reallly obscuring the plain fact that it was deleted for not being in any way an answer to the question, and the more we focus on the substance of his comment and not on the fact that it just objectively broke the guidelines, it just sorts of fuels his self-righteousness.

Having said that, I love the idea of my virginity being a gift to someone, like it should come with a little card that says "We hope you've enjoyed this hymen!" And by "love" I mean "am sort of amused and sickened by".
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 10:09 AM on November 11, 2009 [23 favorites]


Alia,

It's no secret that I'm fairly, rabidly, unsettled by religious fundamentalists of any stripe. Take your big girl pants out a bit if that's giving you indigestion.

My comment was wholly within bounds given the tone that was set by the poster. He started this in motion from a vantage point of religious ideology and came here to air it out some more.
posted by docpops at 10:10 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


God, I love me some Mondo Meta delete-filter.
posted by scrump at 10:11 AM on November 11, 2009


Tell us about how bunnies screw.

She is their saint, so who better to know?
posted by msalt at 10:12 AM on November 11, 2009


I heard there's a witch burnin' in here? I brought marshmallows. Is that wrong?
posted by FunkyHelix at 10:14 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


My system: I retain my virginity for every specific variation of sex act possible. So while, at current count, I have 'gifted' my virginity 5,438 times, I still have innumerable virginities to give. Though I am saving gift #157,892 for marriage. Whoever that special someone is in a for a real treat, lemme tell ya!
posted by barrett caulk at 10:16 AM on November 11, 2009 [21 favorites]


I came in to bitch about the initial-capping going on in this thread. Stop encouraging it, Damn That Television.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:17 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Also, I am auctioning virginity #100,000 on ebay as a fundraiser for victims of China-like Censorship. Dig deep, fellow Mefites . . .
posted by barrett caulk at 10:18 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


I don't understand why peter_meta_kbd is still active here. Not in the "why hasn't he been banned" sense, but more in the "why in the hell are you hanging around a place that seems to piss you off all the time" sense.

I have a hard time seeing what you are trying to accomplish with this thread. My advice would be to deactivate your account and go the fuck away.
posted by marxchivist at 10:19 AM on November 11, 2009 [3 favorites]


anime
posted by Damn That Television at 10:19 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


And have you ever tried to tie a bow around your virginity? Because I can tell you, it's really embarrassing to have to explain to the ER doc exactly how THAT got in there.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 10:19 AM on November 11, 2009 [11 favorites]


Hang on, when did "China-like censorship" replace "Fascist PC Nazis?" Are there people who see the "Obama=Nazi" nutjob signs & think "well, if i say that, I'll look crazy like them?" Or is it just the latest troll? This is the second time I've seen that in a Metatalk post in the past week or two.

(It reads as similarly hysterical or trollish to me. Not something that says "I'm saying this in good faith.")
posted by Pronoiac at 10:20 AM on November 11, 2009


I read somewhere that 80-90% of people have sex before marriage.

So you have to believe in sex before marriage the same way you have to believe in right-handedness.

Now, the real point is that you don't believe that people should have sex before marriage. Which, if you think about it, is a terrible answer to the question, "How do I get a date?" It's a non-sequitor.

It's like, "How do I make coffee?" "You shouldn't serve coffee to your dog."

"What is the volume of a sphere?" "Spheres shouldn't be used to approximate a human head."

And so on.
posted by muddgirl at 10:20 AM on November 11, 2009 [38 favorites]


No more worry about losing your virginity. With this product, you can have your first night back anytime.
posted by gman at 10:20 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


YOUTUBE IS CENSOR!
RESIST CBS/NBC/BBC/NAZI TAKEOVER
STOP OBAMA/BUSH FROM TAKING ARE ANIME
posted by Damn That Television at 10:21 AM on November 11, 2009 [8 favorites]


Man, I really need a sock puppet.
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:21 AM on November 11, 2009


Typical of the illiberal state of affairs in reactionary left wing contemporary circles.

This is so great. Soooo great. I'm glowing right now. My life got better. It's a good day to be alive. There is a hop in my step and sun where once there was clouds. Did I just get a raise at work? Steaks for lunch, heroin for dinner! Sorry hoppitamoppita, you just got knocked off the pedestal.
posted by Kwine at 10:21 AM on November 11, 2009 [11 favorites]


Your exact phrasing was:

"you're a lucky girl to still be a virgin. don't waste it on a fling or something that you think is easy, that's my only advice. be patient and be open to something serious if it appears, but if not, don't give such a gift to a stranger because then you can't give it to your life partner.
:

To be honest, I think "don't lose your virginity to a stranger" is a fair answer to a question where someone asks for advice on developing their love life and is considering hiring an escort.

Whether or not I agree with saving virginity for marriage is irrelevant; it IS a valid answer, which was given snark-free and with courtesy.
posted by bunnycup at 10:22 AM on November 11, 2009 [12 favorites]


Look, unless your local police/ senator/ representative came to your goddamn door and shook you down, stop it with the totalitarian equivalencies.

Praising a girl's virginity is weird and creepy in pretty much any non-parental conversation regardless of your well meaning intentions.
posted by boo_radley at 10:23 AM on November 11, 2009 [20 favorites]


I think the thing to remember is that you don't have to give the heathens any advice at all. Just ignore their stupid relationship-filter questions and be happy that you are living right.

I also don't know what the hell peter_meta_kbd is doing around here still.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:23 AM on November 11, 2009

I read somewhere that 80-90% of people have sex before marriage.
Figuring out which 10-20% of you isn't going to get laid tonight is a hassle.
posted by scrump at 10:24 AM on November 11, 2009


Is it really necessary to be this hostile? I'm as atheist as the next person, but once you've clarified the issue, why continue engaging in malicious discourse at their levels? You know they're strawmanning, so why even bother?
posted by Phire at 10:24 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally?

This is my final post. I am literally about to die from seeing someone's stupid unsolicited opinion. Stupid fatal website.
posted by Skot at 10:25 AM on November 11, 2009 [18 favorites]


I think the thing to remember is that you don't have to give the heathens any advice at all. Just ignore their stupid relationship-filter questions and be happy that you are living right

Ignoring the loaded words there, I do think it's fair to share the ways, for example, that I screwed my life up and advise others to avoid the particular landmines. And if I can learn from the mistakes of others instead of painfully making my own, that's a good thing, too.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:25 AM on November 11, 2009


I also don't know what the hell peter_meta_kbd is doing around here still.

Do many people actually have significant working knowledge of a other members to maintain opinions like this? I confess I have to click people's usernames all the time to remember them.

I would hate to see people's mental database on me.
posted by jefficator at 10:26 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


fair answer to a question where someone asks for advice on developing their love life and is considering hiring an escort

I got the impression that the girl doesn't really know that "male escort" is a euphemism, and just wanted a date to the symphony (which I believe they will do for you). I could be naive here.

Also, pete pretty much said in this post that he was referring to all sex before marriage, not just sex with an escort.
posted by muddgirl at 10:27 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


You can go out and premaritally screw like bunnies if you wish
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies


So, you're like the patron saint of screwing like bunnies?
posted by Burhanistan at 10:27 AM on November 11, 2009 [8 favorites]


The contact form believes in sex before marriage.

This.
posted by caveat at 10:29 AM on November 11, 2009


Everyone needs a hug. However, each hug you give is one less hug for your life partner.

Sweet counter-argument. This makes me really glad that hugs aren't actually a limited resource, something to be mined. I wonder what a hug mine would be like....
posted by aniola at 10:29 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


80-90%? I haven't even met 80-90% of my spouses.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:29 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


Oh, it's the deleted comments/censorship guy again. Let's see if this hits four hundred comments likes his last one did, shall we?
posted by cgomez at 10:30 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


In my answer, I encouraged her to remember that anything she gives away to a passing stranger is a gift she can never give to a life partner

You seem to be mistaking sex for some sort of precious commodity that's in limited supply. But we all own the means of production, see, so it's actually both cheap and plentiful.

When can we start talking about pie? Apple is the best kind of pie, and if you don't think so, you're wrong.
posted by killdevil at 10:31 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


jessamyn in her comment above didn't claim that my answer didn't answer the question: she said it was culled because it "hit a tone that was problematic in the context of the thread." thanks for responding, by the way, i was beginning to wonder whether my memory could be trusted.

i have to assume that jessamyn was following the will of the flaggers, because she has always struck me as being only mildly phased by controversial propositions. maybe the comment form mail got lost, i can understand that. next time i will send email to the comment form twice.

thanks for the feedback. sorry i don't have the original comment (if it's still there somewhere feel free to post it) - next time i suppose i should copy it before submitting it.
posted by peter_meta_kbd at 10:33 AM on November 11, 2009


Would it kill y'all to have to see an opinion you don't agree with occasionally? Sheesh.

Oh fuck off, Connie.

^ A thousand times over.
posted by special-k at 10:33 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


peter_meta_kbd, perhaps your Q&A itch would be better scratched by joining this site. I think it might be a little more satisfying for you; as far as I can tell, censorship never happens over there.
posted by heyho at 10:34 AM on November 11, 2009


St. Alia: (My comment was more directed at the people having a fit about the opinion, not necessarily at the deletion, which I am meh about.)

In defense of St. Alia (I thought I'd never write those words), from the first eight comments in this thread:

Flame out... eject eject eject
oh just fuck off.
No one cares what you believe.


This is pretty unfriendly stuff (and on Remembrance Day of all days) and, more to the point, pure Grade Eight school ground argumentation. Maybe it's just evidence of the kind of uncontainable frustration and loathing that the religious right have inspired in so many of us ... but it's hardly the BEST of anything ... except perhaps bile.
posted by philip-random at 10:34 AM on November 11, 2009 [28 favorites]


If I am not failing, I am not trying. If I am not being deleted occasionally, I am not AskMe-ing. Most of my deletions are not snark either. I think that people view issues differently so when I answer something that gets deleted I am often confused as I think it directly answers the question in my crazy thought process sort of way. What ever. I move on.

I did not think hostile posters answer was that far off, but I am even more confused by his hostility. I am also confused that not having sex before marriage is always a religious thing. Is it religious too when you don't have sex after marriage? There are lots of those out there.

I guess what I am trying to say is this who thread is a gift to everyone.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:34 AM on November 11, 2009


I think the issue is that, while you tried to answer the question, you did so without explaining fully several key underlying assumptions you have that are NOT universal to the point of not needing to explain them in such context.

Had you fully explained your underlying assumptions, then shown how they related in such a way as to make your attempt at an answer an actual answer to the question in the way it was posed, this answer might have stood. Instead, you posted an answer that, without dealing with those assumptions, seemed very out of left field and therefore, made your attempt at answering NOT an answer to the question as it was posed.

(can you tell I've been grading a lot of undergraduate argumentative essays recently?)
posted by strixus at 10:35 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


I heard there's a witch burnin' in here? I brought marshmallows. Is that wrong?

Only if you didn't bring chocolate and graham crackers.
posted by special-k at 10:35 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


throw my body in a trash can and throw the trash can off the empire state building into a pool of lava and cheer when my shit existence comes to an end, rofl
posted by Damn That Television at 10:35 AM on November 11, 2009


For cry-eye, that answer wasn't just off-topic, it was unbelievably presumptuous toward the OP. She didn't say one damned thing about wanting sex or having sex. She just asked about dating and maybe kissing. And this schmoe's response is basically, "OMGNOOOOOOOO, don't be a whory slutty slutperson, passing your vagina around as if vagina-passing were your profession!"

If you're so rah-rah about the wonderfulness of premarital celibacy, why do you assume that even the mere mention of wanting to go on dates automatically means that this woman's precious maidenhead is in dire jeopardy? What, young people can't be trusted to socialize with people of the gender they're attracted to without sex happening? Why don't you just wall all the girls up in a convent until some appropriately glassy-eyed suitor shows up with the right resume and bride-price already?

And by the way, if I had gone into that thread and said "The best way to get dates is VOTE FOR NADER, LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE AND HEMP," that answer would have been deleted also.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [28 favorites]


so the rudeness about it is uncalled for.

"Typical of the illiberal state of affairs in reactionary left wing contemporary circles."

I believe your premise is flawed St.AotB, the rudeness was evident in the original comment and what you are seeing is a reaction to it.
posted by quin at 10:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [10 favorites]


Praising a girl's virginity is weird and creepy in pretty much any non-parental conversation regardless of your well meaning intentions.

It's weird and creepy in parental conversations too, if your kids are older than about 12.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [14 favorites]


You can go out and premaritally screw like bunnies

Go on. Tell me more.
posted by special-k at 10:37 AM on November 11, 2009 [3 favorites]


This is what we should be telling teenagers, especially teenage women, about Penis-in-Vagina sex if we want them to avoid it:

It's much less fun than mutual masturbation, until you get a lot of practice at it. YMMV of course.
posted by muddgirl at 10:38 AM on November 11, 2009 [4 favorites]


Oh! The Chatfilter Deletion of Ouch guy! I was trying to remember that thread the other day because Kirth pointed out what a stellar band name that would be.
Mods, if you ever start a Meta Band, can you name it that? Or at least have it be one of the songs?
posted by 8dot3 at 10:39 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


My only comment here is that I hope this wasn't the day that the mods decided to take that top secret cruise that they are trying to keep to themselves...
posted by wheelieman at 10:40 AM on November 11, 2009


Heh, someone actually came to Metatalk to complain about his "women are property and the state of their vaginas defines their value" post being deleted? And despite this ugly opinion of a gender he doesn't even exhibit, he's complaining about being oppressed? Without any thought as to how his original statement might impact on the community? God bless you peter_meta_kbd, I can't imagine the disconnect going on between your world and reality that you think this is just an issue about it being an alternate point of view to the mainstream opinion here.
posted by saturnine at 10:41 AM on November 11, 2009 [48 favorites]


Metafilter: You can go out and premaritally screw like bunnies.
posted by special-k at 10:43 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


Seriously, though. You people are a licentious bunch of hellbound heathens.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:44 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


jessamyn in her comment above didn't claim that my answer didn't answer the question: she said it was culled because it "hit a tone that was problematic in the context of the thread."

Um..."this hits a tone that was problematic in the context of the thread" MEANS "this didn't answer the question."

The thread, contextually, is answers to a question. Your comment did not answer the question. Therefore, it hit a different tone, which made it problematic.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:45 AM on November 11, 2009


don't give such a gift to a stranger because then you can't give it to your life partner.

Are you kidding? I share this gift with all my mefi spouses.
posted by special-k at 10:45 AM on November 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


peter_meta_kbd: I know how you feel, but by now I am used to being SILENCED ALL MY LIFE.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2009


Ok I lied.. it was next Wednesday. As an aside has anyone written a greasemonkey script that automatically makes the etiquette/policy questions disappear yet? MeMail me if so. Thanks!
posted by wheelieman at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2009

Seriously, though. You people are a licentious bunch of hellbound heathens.
Well, we try harder than the other guys.
posted by scrump at 10:47 AM on November 11, 2009 [6 favorites]


peter_meta_kbd, if MeFi makes you so angry - and judging by your profile and MeTa history, it appears that it does - why in the sam hill do you keep coming back? I really, truly don't understand this.
posted by katillathehun at 10:47 AM on November 11, 2009 [2 favorites]


Don't Believe In Sex Before Marriage? Don't Bother Saying it in a Comment, It'll Be Deleted

Your language indicates that you don't understand the purpose of Ask Metafilter. On Ask Metafilter, the responses are called answers. You do not comment on the question, you answer it. You comment on posts on Metafilter's main page, also known as the blue.

Therefore your answer was deleted.

It is perfectly reasonable to believe in no sex before marriage and to indicate that to others in comments on posts related to such things or in, *gasp* derails. But you must answer the question in AskMe. Had the poster asked "should I have sex with X" your answer would have been entirely appropriate. Instead, her question was, "how do I get a first date?" You failed to tell her how to get a first date. Therefore your answer was deleted.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:48 AM on November 11, 2009 [5 favorites]


it IS a valid answer, which was given snark-free and with courtesy

Starting a comment with "you're a lucky girl to still be a virgin," colors the rest of the advice a deep shade of creepy. There's a huge difference between implying "Your virginity is valuable, don't waste it on a fling" and "You are valuable, don't engage in risky behavior like hiring an escort."
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:50 AM on November 11, 2009 [12 favorites]


I would hate to see people's mental database on me.

Pretty much you're just that one guy with his real name in his handle.
posted by Caduceus at 10:50 AM on November 11, 2009


Anyway, I'm not feeling like this is going anywhere good so far, so I'm gonna go ahead and close this monster down. I hate to kill some good faith slivers of discussion in here, but this isn't seeming like a useful thread in which to have them in any case.

peter, I'd really recommend you put some time into figuring out what it is you want out of mefi and what you're willing to do to try and get it, because you seem to be pretty consistently unhappy with how the site works and have done an exceptionally poor job of dealing with that when you've tried to address it in public, and I don't feel at this point like that's any of that is showing signs of improving.

If you need to talk to us some more about this, drop us a line. Maybe toss off a quick mefimail to confirm the contact form email go through if you haven't heard back from us or something.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:55 AM on November 11, 2009 [10 favorites]


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