Sports- WTF July 9, 2010 7:01 AM Subscribe
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
And I'm specifically not talking about the Cleveland specific things in this thread. I don't get it. If it doesn't interest you don't post.
Newsflash people have different interests.
Comments like this for example. Yeah I flagged and moved on but I just want to know why this is considered reasonable behavior by some.
And I'm specifically not talking about the Cleveland specific things in this thread. I don't get it. If it doesn't interest you don't post.
Newsflash people have different interests.
Comments like this for example. Yeah I flagged and moved on but I just want to know why this is considered reasonable behavior by some.
This isn't specifically about that comment though - it is an ongoing thing in the community and I don't get it. Why is this something kosher to piss on?
posted by JPD at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by JPD at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2010
It's because, even on Metafilter, nerds and jocks are archetypal enemies, like the cobra and the mongoose.
I look forward to a day where we all can live together in harmony.
But until then, sports fans can eat a bowl of dick.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [29 favorites]
I look forward to a day where we all can live together in harmony.
But until then, sports fans can eat a bowl of dick.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [29 favorites]
Happens in Contemporary Art threads too!
posted by R. Mutt at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by R. Mutt at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
In this instance, I think it's less of a "sports" thing as it is the underlying "Americans always have their own shit all over MetaFilter, and I don't like it" thing that has been discussed recently, as well. It's ironic that at the top of every page right now is an invitation to watch a World Cup match with a MeFite, and no one seems to be complaining about that.
posted by yhbc at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by yhbc at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2010
Yeah, and when you link to an offending comment it makes it more difficult for the mods to do a clean up.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by cjorgensen at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2010
Contemporary art threads make me feel like the Insane Clown Posse: "Fucking contemporary art! how does it work?"
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
Never bitch about a comment w/o posting it (in its entirety) in the MetaTalk thread, because they usually get buhleted. This has happened to me like 3 times (I've made a comment that got buhleted) and then I got smack talked on my for a whole thread by people who never read the initial comment.
So, for posterity:
[regarding thread in-fighting about people saying your favorite team is a corporation]
"You two (and everyone like you) can eat a bowl of dick. Fucking sports fans. I hate 'em."
For the record, I generally agree that if you're not interested, to not post. However, in this thread specifically, we've got a debate about the American Elephant in the Room---which is that the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket and some dude who is good at playing a game gets a bazillion dollars and a 1 hour tv special, while schools close and record numbers of teachers are laid off and libraries are closed and assistance funds are cut. So it's not necessarily just a lack of interest, it's a sincere disconnect between the fans and the not-fans, those of us who are not-fans (or not frothing, over the top fans, anyway) sincerely can't understand why the fans feel, act, and spend the way they do.
Not, I guess, that it's our place to understand, but I daresay it's ok for us to care, especially if we think it's bad for society.
I grew up in Morgantown, WV == The Home of the Mountaineers!!!!! And I never have half a flip about them, nor considered them a source of WV pride, because, well, there were never more than like 5 players on the team who were actually from WV. We might as well be the Ohio and Florida Nearly All-Stars. (Which is still true today, although I do enjoy watching the games a little more these days.)
posted by TomMelee at 7:11 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
So, for posterity:
[regarding thread in-fighting about people saying your favorite team is a corporation]
"You two (and everyone like you) can eat a bowl of dick. Fucking sports fans. I hate 'em."
For the record, I generally agree that if you're not interested, to not post. However, in this thread specifically, we've got a debate about the American Elephant in the Room---which is that the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket and some dude who is good at playing a game gets a bazillion dollars and a 1 hour tv special, while schools close and record numbers of teachers are laid off and libraries are closed and assistance funds are cut. So it's not necessarily just a lack of interest, it's a sincere disconnect between the fans and the not-fans, those of us who are not-fans (or not frothing, over the top fans, anyway) sincerely can't understand why the fans feel, act, and spend the way they do.
Not, I guess, that it's our place to understand, but I daresay it's ok for us to care, especially if we think it's bad for society.
I grew up in Morgantown, WV == The Home of the Mountaineers!!!!! And I never have half a flip about them, nor considered them a source of WV pride, because, well, there were never more than like 5 players on the team who were actually from WV. We might as well be the Ohio and Florida Nearly All-Stars. (Which is still true today, although I do enjoy watching the games a little more these days.)
posted by TomMelee at 7:11 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Removed a couple things (short version: "Non-sports fans, shut the fuck up"; "oh yeah, well eat a bag of dicks!") and left a note. Not to dismiss the discussion of how sports themselves are handled on mefi—I hear you that you're trying to speak to a more general phenomenon—but this specifically felt like more an example of people letting themselves get into an escalating slap fight than anything sports specific.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:13 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:13 AM on July 9, 2010
Because this site is overrun with unattractive, out of shape nerds and they hate being reminded that there are athletic or beautiful people in the world that are more rich or popular than they are.
am I doing this right?
posted by toomuchpete at 7:13 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
am I doing this right?
posted by toomuchpete at 7:13 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
Because some people are still bitter about all those Swirlies™ they received in high school.
posted by bondcliff at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Because some people are still bitter about all those Swirlies™ they received in high school.
posted by bondcliff at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
cortex, it was "bowl"; not "bag". These distinctions are important.
posted by yhbc at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
Out of interest, is a bowl of dick like cock au vin?
posted by MuffinMan at 7:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by MuffinMan at 7:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
So, for posterity...
Then you should also record what it was in response to:
Then you should also record what it was in response to:
Dear Non-Sports Fans,posted by pracowity at 7:16 AM on July 9, 2010
Shut the fuck up.
Sincerely,
Me
People revel in their ignorance about sports. It's remarkable.
posted by smackfu at 7:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 7:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Removed a couple things (short version: "Non-sports fans, shut the fuck up"; "oh yeah, well eat a bag of dicks!")
FWIW, the initial comment was that sports fan shouldn't care about sports, which is what caused the retort, which is what caused the "I hate sports so I'm going to post in a thread about sports about how much I hate them and sports fans".
posted by inigo2 at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010
FWIW, the initial comment was that sports fan shouldn't care about sports, which is what caused the retort, which is what caused the "I hate sports so I'm going to post in a thread about sports about how much I hate them and sports fans".
posted by inigo2 at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010
Because this site is overrun with unattractive, out of shape nerds and they hate being reminded that there are athletic or beautiful people in the world that are more rich or popular than they are.
For the record: I was a varsity athlete in high school. It's much more fun being a nerd. :)
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
For the record: I was a varsity athlete in high school. It's much more fun being a nerd. :)
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
How many bowls of dick are in a bucket of cocks?
posted by pracowity at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
TomMelee: "the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket and some dude who is good at playing a game gets a bazillion dollars and a 1 hour tv special, while schools close and record numbers of teachers are laid off and libraries are closed and assistance funds are cut."
Every time someone says "You shouldn't care about this thing because there are more important things to care about", I want to strangle a baby whale. Seriously, guys. I can care about sports and world hunger at the same fucking time. I'm that talented.
yhbc: "cortex, it was "bowl"; not "bag". These distinctions are important."
Everyone knows that dicks don't fit into bowls very well. Bags or buckets, please.
posted by Plutor at 7:18 AM on July 9, 2010 [12 favorites]
Every time someone says "You shouldn't care about this thing because there are more important things to care about", I want to strangle a baby whale. Seriously, guys. I can care about sports and world hunger at the same fucking time. I'm that talented.
yhbc: "cortex, it was "bowl"; not "bag". These distinctions are important."
Everyone knows that dicks don't fit into bowls very well. Bags or buckets, please.
posted by Plutor at 7:18 AM on July 9, 2010 [12 favorites]
Then you should also record what it was in response to:
As I just commented, then YOU should record what THAT was in response to:
Dear Sports Fans,
Your favorite "team" is a corporation, and does not care about you. Its employees are not aware that you exist as an individual. Please consider focusing your energies elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Me
posted by inigo2 at 7:18 AM on July 9, 2010
As I just commented, then YOU should record what THAT was in response to:
Dear Sports Fans,
Your favorite "team" is a corporation, and does not care about you. Its employees are not aware that you exist as an individual. Please consider focusing your energies elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Me
posted by inigo2 at 7:18 AM on July 9, 2010
Why is this something kosher to piss on?
I'd piss on gefilte fish, but only to make it taste better.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:19 AM on July 9, 2010
I'd piss on gefilte fish, but only to make it taste better.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:19 AM on July 9, 2010
This is why I love minor league baseball. There are never more than a few hundred people at the small stadium games near me. I love watching live baseball. But having also been to both Fenway and Yankee Stadium...
It really is sports Fans that I hate.
posted by R. Mutt at 7:20 AM on July 9, 2010
It really is sports Fans that I hate.
posted by R. Mutt at 7:20 AM on July 9, 2010
For the record: I was a varsity athlete in high school.
I ran track, was a sprinter (100m, 220m and 400m relay (starting or finishing) and long jumper. Did up till high school before girls and angst distracted me.
posted by new brand day at 7:21 AM on July 9, 2010
I ran track, was a sprinter (100m, 220m and 400m relay (starting or finishing) and long jumper. Did up till high school before girls and angst distracted me.
posted by new brand day at 7:21 AM on July 9, 2010
FIAMO is the rule of thumb, but I can sympathize with the anti-sporters, so here's my explanation.
Pro sports are the modern-day bread and circuses of ancient Rome. Whereas games are meant to be played, they symbolize a sedentary culture that merely consumes them as passive entertainment from stadium bleachers or a living room couch. They distract from the pressing issues facing society by artificially inventing new, inconsequential conflicts. On a large scale, like the World Cup, they fuel the flame of jingoism by pitting one group against another arbitrarily in the name of "national pride."
There are benefits to pro sports as well, but you asked for the negative parts. So there ya go. I like the original philosophy behind the Olympics, where disputing nations go to "war" on the athletic field instead of the battlefield, but that's not exactly the climate today. Instead we have a massive corporate empire built on the advertising dollars of potato chip and beer companies.
I'd still rather read an FPP about the Cavaliers than about, say, Lindsay Lohan.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 7:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Pro sports are the modern-day bread and circuses of ancient Rome. Whereas games are meant to be played, they symbolize a sedentary culture that merely consumes them as passive entertainment from stadium bleachers or a living room couch. They distract from the pressing issues facing society by artificially inventing new, inconsequential conflicts. On a large scale, like the World Cup, they fuel the flame of jingoism by pitting one group against another arbitrarily in the name of "national pride."
There are benefits to pro sports as well, but you asked for the negative parts. So there ya go. I like the original philosophy behind the Olympics, where disputing nations go to "war" on the athletic field instead of the battlefield, but that's not exactly the climate today. Instead we have a massive corporate empire built on the advertising dollars of potato chip and beer companies.
I'd still rather read an FPP about the Cavaliers than about, say, Lindsay Lohan.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 7:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Did up till high school before girls and angst distracted me.
Yeah, the angst'll do it every time.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010
Yeah, the angst'll do it every time.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010
But think of how terrible it is for ME! I am a contemporary artist who likes professional sports! The AGONY! All my threads are crapped on! (just being silly, here, btw)
posted by Slothrop at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Slothrop at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some of the objections arise from the more civic-minded people. You may not have picked up on this, but we're being told, constantly, that some new bond issue to raise money for Stadium X will, like, totally rejuvenate the city and produce a zillion jobs and money will float down from the sky into the rain barrels of our budgets if we just grant them these tax breaks and such and can attract this team into moving here.
And then the stadium gets built and we don't hear much about the job creation anymore. You can send some emails to some people about how well the projections went and hear back nothing. I do get neat new traffic jams in exciting and unexpected locations. Next, we hear about another budgetary shortfall and it looks like we need to close some more schools. It's an opportunity for the kids to make more friends and, seriously, screw the teachers, they take off the whole damn summer. Meanwhile, I want to pick up my medications and have to endure someone gibbering incoherently at me about someone named "Lebron," who, after I went home and looked him up, is states away from me.
Then ourLocal Traveling Sports Team Franchise decides to move, anyway, and I think about all of the loyalty we bought with the blind fanaticism and guess that the exchange rate on that must have sucked.
posted by adipocere at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [25 favorites]
And then the stadium gets built and we don't hear much about the job creation anymore. You can send some emails to some people about how well the projections went and hear back nothing. I do get neat new traffic jams in exciting and unexpected locations. Next, we hear about another budgetary shortfall and it looks like we need to close some more schools. It's an opportunity for the kids to make more friends and, seriously, screw the teachers, they take off the whole damn summer. Meanwhile, I want to pick up my medications and have to endure someone gibbering incoherently at me about someone named "Lebron," who, after I went home and looked him up, is states away from me.
Then our
posted by adipocere at 7:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [25 favorites]
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
We just went over Free Will vs. Determinism the other day.
posted by ODiV at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
We just went over Free Will vs. Determinism the other day.
posted by ODiV at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
It happens in lots of threads, about lots of things, and it lots of sucks.
Thread about things that you find trivial: fine.
Commenting in thread about things you find trivial: fine.
Relieving yourself in thread about thing you find trivial: unifine.
Relieving yourself in thread about ANYTHING: unfine.
It isn't the subject - it's the shitting.
posted by dirtdirt at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Thread about things that you find trivial: fine.
Commenting in thread about things you find trivial: fine.
Relieving yourself in thread about thing you find trivial: unifine.
Relieving yourself in thread about ANYTHING: unfine.
It isn't the subject - it's the shitting.
posted by dirtdirt at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
How many bowls of dick are in a bucket of cocks?
Good luck getting an accurate answer on this. I find that the measures are always overstated.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Good luck getting an accurate answer on this. I find that the measures are always overstated.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Fascinating. My workplace filter blocks content associated with the word "comic".
Bonus: no comic sans.
... will I even be able to preview this comment??
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010
Bonus: no comic sans.
... will I even be able to preview this comment??
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2010
Happens in Contemporary Art threads too!
Happens in every single thread, really. Even a thread about shopping bag exchange, we get self-important a-holes telling us that we're ruining the planet. Every single thread has its quota of haters and naysayers. The only reason why AskMe is free of it is because it gets deleted. For every opinion on Metafilter, there is an equal and opposite asshole to tell you how much you suck.
posted by crunchland at 7:25 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Happens in every single thread, really. Even a thread about shopping bag exchange, we get self-important a-holes telling us that we're ruining the planet. Every single thread has its quota of haters and naysayers. The only reason why AskMe is free of it is because it gets deleted. For every opinion on Metafilter, there is an equal and opposite asshole to tell you how much you suck.
posted by crunchland at 7:25 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Bitching about publically funded arenas /=/ pissing in a sports thread because you don't like sports. In this thread it would be a massive derail and that would be the issue - but for example in the LeBron thread I think the Cleveland-centric discussion is totally legit.
I mean we all know the public funding is scam.
posted by JPD at 7:25 AM on July 9, 2010
I mean we all know the public funding is scam.
posted by JPD at 7:25 AM on July 9, 2010
Plutor-
For distinction, I don't give a care what anybody cares about. As I told someone yesterday, I said "I don't care if you spend all your spare cash on icy-pops, it's your life." You can simultaneously care about a whole lot of things, absolutely.
What people bother to tune into isn't the stories about shit that actually matters, what so ever---its dumping cash, attention, media, brands---whatever, into something as trivial as what MegaCorporation what MegaPlayer is going to play for.
I realize that the $100M LeBron's getting to do whatever would never, under any circumstance ever go to, say, a rural medicine project. I get that. Doesn't mean that I don't think it SHOULD go there.
Yesterday, OJ Mayo and Randy Moss delivered groceries to 600 families in their hometown--food that they paid the lions share of, and then they delivered it to them themselves. Give those dudes an hour long special, imo.
posted by TomMelee at 7:26 AM on July 9, 2010
For distinction, I don't give a care what anybody cares about. As I told someone yesterday, I said "I don't care if you spend all your spare cash on icy-pops, it's your life." You can simultaneously care about a whole lot of things, absolutely.
What people bother to tune into isn't the stories about shit that actually matters, what so ever---its dumping cash, attention, media, brands---whatever, into something as trivial as what MegaCorporation what MegaPlayer is going to play for.
I realize that the $100M LeBron's getting to do whatever would never, under any circumstance ever go to, say, a rural medicine project. I get that. Doesn't mean that I don't think it SHOULD go there.
Yesterday, OJ Mayo and Randy Moss delivered groceries to 600 families in their hometown--food that they paid the lions share of, and then they delivered it to them themselves. Give those dudes an hour long special, imo.
posted by TomMelee at 7:26 AM on July 9, 2010
Let's be clear, it's suck a bag of dicks.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
we're being told, constantly, that some new bond issue to raise money for Stadium X will, like, totally rejuvenate the city and produce a zillion jobs and money will float down from the sky into the rain barrels of our budgets if we just grant them these tax breaks and such and can attract this team into moving here.
The problem is, this isn't a thread about a team moving, or a stadium being built, or anything like that. I agree with all your points -- I find the arguments to build new stadiums typically complete bull. But that thread is just about Lebron James, and where he goes to play basketball, and there are some comments that highlight the fact that it does financially benefit the city where he plays.
posted by inigo2 at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
The problem is, this isn't a thread about a team moving, or a stadium being built, or anything like that. I agree with all your points -- I find the arguments to build new stadiums typically complete bull. But that thread is just about Lebron James, and where he goes to play basketball, and there are some comments that highlight the fact that it does financially benefit the city where he plays.
posted by inigo2 at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I come here for discussions and debate about weird art, feminism, crafting, oddball cultural phenomena, goofy trends etc, etc. In the US, professional sports news and discussion permeates our meat-headed culture from top to bottom; Metafilter is one of the places I come to get away from all of that.
I'm sick of their rioting, drunken screaming at the TV and their insinuation that disinterest in millionaires' physical abilities somehow makes you less of a man. I hate the functional illiteracy, the bullying, the sexism, the conformity, the anti-intellectualism that typifies the average sports fan. Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth. Jock normals can suck it.
posted by Scoo at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
I'm sick of their rioting, drunken screaming at the TV and their insinuation that disinterest in millionaires' physical abilities somehow makes you less of a man. I hate the functional illiteracy, the bullying, the sexism, the conformity, the anti-intellectualism that typifies the average sports fan. Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth. Jock normals can suck it.
posted by Scoo at 7:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
For every opinion on Metafilter, there is an equal and opposite asshole to tell you how much you suck.
NO U
posted by shakespeherian at 7:28 AM on July 9, 2010
NO U
posted by shakespeherian at 7:28 AM on July 9, 2010
I wonder how many rabid anti-sports fans are geeky over some movie or movie series that involves garish spending on things useless for solving society's ills and whose principals are paid ludicrous amounts, considering teachers, blah, blah, blah. Plus place themselves at no physical risk whatsoever. People who do things at a high level that contribute to significant revenue enhancement are going to be compensated accordingly. Facts are facts. It's no less ludicrous that someone has a huge house in the hamptons because they invented the toilet duck: if it reaps rewards, they deserve it.
Also, you may think it's dumb to throw away money on something as arcane as mere human physical competition, but --sorry-- your thin veneer of civilization has to pay taxes to the millions of years of evolutionary processes that cause people to want to celebrate tribalism and physical ability and superior athleticism: survival skills watered down into modern sports though they are.
Highly-paid athletes; artists; musicians; actors; jugglers; racers; filmmakers: if you admire any of them you have to admire all of them. They all let us glimpse doing something essentially useless very well and allow us to revel in (and argue about!) the results.
posted by umberto at 7:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [16 favorites]
Also, you may think it's dumb to throw away money on something as arcane as mere human physical competition, but --sorry-- your thin veneer of civilization has to pay taxes to the millions of years of evolutionary processes that cause people to want to celebrate tribalism and physical ability and superior athleticism: survival skills watered down into modern sports though they are.
Highly-paid athletes; artists; musicians; actors; jugglers; racers; filmmakers: if you admire any of them you have to admire all of them. They all let us glimpse doing something essentially useless very well and allow us to revel in (and argue about!) the results.
posted by umberto at 7:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [16 favorites]
I come here for discussions and debate about weird art, feminism, crafting, oddball cultural phenomena, goofy trends etc, etc. so do all of us. Some of us also like sports.
Jock normals can suck it I'm watching the world cup finals on Sunday with my best friend the former all-state wrestler turned sculptor/ceramicist and his trans-gendered roommate. Things aren't always how you think they are.
posted by JPD at 7:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
Jock normals can suck it I'm watching the world cup finals on Sunday with my best friend the former all-state wrestler turned sculptor/ceramicist and his trans-gendered roommate. Things aren't always how you think they are.
posted by JPD at 7:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
My favorite is the "I don't own a TV" posts in every thread related to a TV show.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
I hate the functional illiteracy, the bullying, the sexism, the conformity, the anti-intellectualism that typifies the average sports fan. Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth. Jock normals can suck it.
I bet you also hate broad generalizations, eh?
posted by Mister_A at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I bet you also hate broad generalizations, eh?
posted by Mister_A at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I bet you also hate broad generalizations, eh?
Sure, I like dames in general, who doesn't?
posted by new brand day at 7:34 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
Sure, I like dames in general, who doesn't?
posted by new brand day at 7:34 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
I hate the functional illiteracy, the bullying, the sexism, the conformity, the anti-intellectualism that typifies the average sports fan.
Wow. That's a nice broad brush you have there.
posted by smackfu at 7:34 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wow. That's a nice broad brush you have there.
posted by smackfu at 7:34 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
You and your friends are the exception to the rule. Enjoy the game.
posted by Scoo at 7:35 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Scoo at 7:35 AM on July 9, 2010
It really is sports Fans that I hate.
Ah, so you've been to an Eagles or Flyers game?
posted by Pax at 7:38 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ah, so you've been to an Eagles or Flyers game?
posted by Pax at 7:38 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
You and your friends are the exception to the rule.
no see that's the thing we aren't. It is as broad a population of people who like sports as people who like contemporary art. There are terrible people who are sports fans, there are terrible people in the art scene.
posted by JPD at 7:40 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
no see that's the thing we aren't. It is as broad a population of people who like sports as people who like contemporary art. There are terrible people who are sports fans, there are terrible people in the art scene.
posted by JPD at 7:40 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Yeah yeah, I'm painting with a broad brush. I'm also painting photo-realistically.
posted by Scoo at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Scoo at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010
all topics are fair game
more Tour de France threads, please!
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
more Tour de France threads, please!
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
You know umberto, your comment pisses me off way more than it should because I feel like it's directed at me---but I know it's not, because I'm not a rabid anti-sports fan. I probably don't give a flip about your favorite sport, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy sport.
And, for what it's worth--no, I live the dream man. I don't idolize anyone for the money they make, I idolize people who change the world. Sounds cheesy, but it's true. I couldn't care less about most of pop culture----I probably also think your favorite movie sucks. I like movies, but I don't spend $65 on a movie ticket (that might get me a shit seat at a stadium.)
I do, however, work in a field where I get to spend my days working with people who are generally well abandoned by humanity, and I just feel like JESUS CHRIST if 1 of every rabid sports fan or rabid anything fan spend 10 minutes a year giving a shit about humanity, or maybe gave away the cost of 1 jersey or something, each year, how much difference it would make to real people. Real people with real problems.
Now, having diatribed---I absolutely support your sports fandom. I'm on board. I may not appreciate it, necessarily, but I support it. It's fun, you work hard for your money, spend it how you want. I enjoy a good tailgate, I like to watch a game with friends on TV. For sure. I get how the payment mechanisms work.
Of course, I also think that janitors should be paid more than mid-level executives.
Some of us, you know---just jaded angry fucks who sometimes have to pay attention to stuff that most people have put themselves into a position to be able to comfortably ignore.
posted by TomMelee at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010
And, for what it's worth--no, I live the dream man. I don't idolize anyone for the money they make, I idolize people who change the world. Sounds cheesy, but it's true. I couldn't care less about most of pop culture----I probably also think your favorite movie sucks. I like movies, but I don't spend $65 on a movie ticket (that might get me a shit seat at a stadium.)
I do, however, work in a field where I get to spend my days working with people who are generally well abandoned by humanity, and I just feel like JESUS CHRIST if 1 of every rabid sports fan or rabid anything fan spend 10 minutes a year giving a shit about humanity, or maybe gave away the cost of 1 jersey or something, each year, how much difference it would make to real people. Real people with real problems.
Now, having diatribed---I absolutely support your sports fandom. I'm on board. I may not appreciate it, necessarily, but I support it. It's fun, you work hard for your money, spend it how you want. I enjoy a good tailgate, I like to watch a game with friends on TV. For sure. I get how the payment mechanisms work.
Of course, I also think that janitors should be paid more than mid-level executives.
Some of us, you know---just jaded angry fucks who sometimes have to pay attention to stuff that most people have put themselves into a position to be able to comfortably ignore.
posted by TomMelee at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2010
Stop trying to censor others here--all topics are fair game.
I think that Leicester Stovell guy is his dad. Don't you all see? They have the same head shape!
posted by anniecat at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2010
I think that Leicester Stovell guy is his dad. Don't you all see? They have the same head shape!
posted by anniecat at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2010
How many bowls of dick are in a bucket of cocks?
$20 worth, SAIT.
posted by nomisxid at 7:44 AM on July 9, 2010
$20 worth, SAIT.
posted by nomisxid at 7:44 AM on July 9, 2010
Why must people continually talk about sports? And then get pissy when someone complains?
I think, for many of us, MeFi is a haven from inane sports talk (Hence a separate SportsFilter). Of course, it's a haven for many of us for many things that it's not really a haven from (right-wing opinions, religion, pseudoscience, and many many more).
It's also that the Internet has changed the nature of conversation. Nowadays, you are usually joining a conversation already in progress, and with more than just one person. It's not as easy to say, "Can we change the subject?" You can look for other conversations to join, but you can't join a conversation until you know what it's about. That's what I mean by "in progress." There are a lot of initial posts out there: on MeFi, facebook, twitter, etc. And because they're not exclusive conversations between you and your close friends, who know what you like and don't, it's harder to avoid "OMG TOPIC YOU HATE DISCUSSION IN HERE!" I can't count how many times I've read some junk or other (junk to me, maybe not to you) about LeBron James, or the World Cup. And while you can avoid participating in the further discussion after reading the initial premise and deciding it does not interest you, you can't avoid those initial threads of conversation—not unless you want to give up on conversation in general (even temporarily).
And precisely because we're creatures of conversation, there is naturally some pushback. What would have been a casual pushback in terms of "Can we change the subject?" instead builds and builds. Instead of replying to every fb status, every tweet with a gentle "Can we talk about something else" (which you might argue would be *more* obnoxious), it's kept inside where pressure builds. Lacking another outlet, it often explodes into (what seems in the local conversation) an unwarranted outburst.
Interestingly enough, as the pushback builds across multiple platforms, the same effect takes hold. People get sick of people who are sick of the World Cup, for example (and that includes people who enjoy the World Cup and people who could care less). So there's a certain feedback effect, and these things come and go in waves.
posted by Eideteker at 7:50 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think, for many of us, MeFi is a haven from inane sports talk (Hence a separate SportsFilter). Of course, it's a haven for many of us for many things that it's not really a haven from (right-wing opinions, religion, pseudoscience, and many many more).
It's also that the Internet has changed the nature of conversation. Nowadays, you are usually joining a conversation already in progress, and with more than just one person. It's not as easy to say, "Can we change the subject?" You can look for other conversations to join, but you can't join a conversation until you know what it's about. That's what I mean by "in progress." There are a lot of initial posts out there: on MeFi, facebook, twitter, etc. And because they're not exclusive conversations between you and your close friends, who know what you like and don't, it's harder to avoid "OMG TOPIC YOU HATE DISCUSSION IN HERE!" I can't count how many times I've read some junk or other (junk to me, maybe not to you) about LeBron James, or the World Cup. And while you can avoid participating in the further discussion after reading the initial premise and deciding it does not interest you, you can't avoid those initial threads of conversation—not unless you want to give up on conversation in general (even temporarily).
And precisely because we're creatures of conversation, there is naturally some pushback. What would have been a casual pushback in terms of "Can we change the subject?" instead builds and builds. Instead of replying to every fb status, every tweet with a gentle "Can we talk about something else" (which you might argue would be *more* obnoxious), it's kept inside where pressure builds. Lacking another outlet, it often explodes into (what seems in the local conversation) an unwarranted outburst.
Interestingly enough, as the pushback builds across multiple platforms, the same effect takes hold. People get sick of people who are sick of the World Cup, for example (and that includes people who enjoy the World Cup and people who could care less). So there's a certain feedback effect, and these things come and go in waves.
posted by Eideteker at 7:50 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Sure, I like dames in general, who doesn't?
Dames with great gams especially.
posted by Mister_A at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2010
Dames with great gams especially.
posted by Mister_A at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2010
It's going to be interesting, given the derail, to see how this MeTa ends up being a recipe exchange.
Oh, and how is it a relatively intelligent group of adults is ever surprised at what other people will find important?
posted by Mooski at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2010
Oh, and how is it a relatively intelligent group of adults is ever surprised at what other people will find important?
posted by Mooski at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2010
Lacking another outlet, it often explodes into (what seems in the local conversation) an unwarranted outburst.
Oh c'mon, that's bullshit. Show some self-control people.
posted by smackfu at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh c'mon, that's bullshit. Show some self-control people.
posted by smackfu at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hey, I'm not that much of a sports fan: I like sucky teams so it doesn't pay to get invested. I just wonder why I never hear any of this sort of anger and bile and --forgive me-- socially aware oneupsmanship directed at Star Wars, or Harry Potter, or....there was a whole James Bond thread the other day and none of this holier-than-thou crap snuck into the equation (that I noticed, anyway). Why not? Why pick on one useless distraction over another? Jocks are no more obnoxious than actors. Trust me.
And good for you, if you are what you say you are. I work in one of the 'useless' professions so -uh- you win, I guess. How hurty and dead I feel inside...
posted by umberto at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
And good for you, if you are what you say you are. I work in one of the 'useless' professions so -uh- you win, I guess. How hurty and dead I feel inside...
posted by umberto at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I posted this:
Dear Non-Sports Fans,
Shut the fuck up.
Sincerely,
Me
which was deleted, in response to this:
Dear Sports Fans,
Your favorite "team" is a corporation, and does not care about you. Its employees are not aware that you exist as an individual. Please consider focusing your energies elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Me
which was not deleted. I don't object to the cortex's decision, but I read the first comment--the one that stood--as saying "If you are a sports fan, you are a self-deceiving idiot. So please stop posting/discussing sports here" (that's the "consider focusing your energies elsewhere" part). If you don't like the topic of a post, flag it, trust that the mods will do their work (delete it or not) and move on. Calling--or implying--that the OPer and the folks who posted in the threads idiots is really not very civil.
posted by MarshallPoe at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Dear Non-Sports Fans,
Shut the fuck up.
Sincerely,
Me
which was deleted, in response to this:
Dear Sports Fans,
Your favorite "team" is a corporation, and does not care about you. Its employees are not aware that you exist as an individual. Please consider focusing your energies elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Me
which was not deleted. I don't object to the cortex's decision, but I read the first comment--the one that stood--as saying "If you are a sports fan, you are a self-deceiving idiot. So please stop posting/discussing sports here" (that's the "consider focusing your energies elsewhere" part). If you don't like the topic of a post, flag it, trust that the mods will do their work (delete it or not) and move on. Calling--or implying--that the OPer and the folks who posted in the threads idiots is really not very civil.
posted by MarshallPoe at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hmm so he's "the cortex" now...
Moderators such as the cortex, and the jessamyn, and such as.
posted by Maximian at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
Moderators such as the cortex, and the jessamyn, and such as.
posted by Maximian at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
It's going to be interesting, given the derail, to see how this MeTa ends up being a recipe exchange.
What's your favorite snacks for watching games? Does it vary from sport to sport?
Sure guacamole is classic, but what's the special something you do to make it really stand out?Do you make your own smoked sausages or buy'em?
posted by new brand day at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010
What's your favorite snacks for watching games? Does it vary from sport to sport?
Sure guacamole is classic, but what's the special something you do to make it really stand out?Do you make your own smoked sausages or buy'em?
posted by new brand day at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010
I didn't throw down until the "GTFO Non-sports fans" comments started. When I (politely) tell people I have no interest in sports, 100% of the time they look at me like I have two heads. I'm sick of it.
posted by Scoo at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Scoo at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2010
Well dude, why do you enter a door clearly marked "sports talk inside" to proclaim your dislike of sports?
posted by Mister_A at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]
Because I HAVE BEEN SILENCED ALL MY LIFE.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:06 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:06 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Anyway, we don't "constantly piss" in sports threads. It's more of a relay...
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:07 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:07 AM on July 9, 2010
Seriously, are you one of those guys who goes into a gay bar and is offended at the men holding hands? And you think the other people are the assholes? Yeah. Representin'
posted by umberto at 8:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by umberto at 8:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Post about a potential significant breakthrough in the treatment of AIDs, 26 comments... post about sports figure and the resulting pontifications 200 comments. Perhaps the AIDs post should have had more angst filled drama in it.
posted by edgeways at 8:09 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 8:09 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, maybe people just don't like newsfilter.
(We can keep this thing going, people!)
posted by smackfu at 8:10 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
(We can keep this thing going, people!)
posted by smackfu at 8:10 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Two points: 1, the vast majority of the anti-sport people here seem to objecting to a particular type of sports discussion (meathead, inane, etc.) as if its the only type that's out there. It's not. Sports discussion ranges from dramatic and emotional to technical and scientific. Like almost everything else, it's just a lens through which to have a conversation, a conversation that can be about anything, racism, science, whatever. It can be a "meathead" conversation about how fucking awesome your team is, but it doesn't have to be.
The other point, is that the single best thing about being a sports fan is the collective effervescence. You can get that from a lot of places, but sports is one way that people who don't enjoy say, raves, can get it. It's what leads to a lot of the negative behavior, but it also drives the most amazing part of being a sports fan, which is sharing an emotional moment with a group (be it happy or sad). You know that scene in Battlestar Galactica where Six talks about going to the pyramid games and feeling the energy of the crowd wash over her? That's a very real part of the sport fan experience. Does it put feed anyone who is hungry? No, but neither does art or music. The experience still has value though.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:11 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
The other point, is that the single best thing about being a sports fan is the collective effervescence. You can get that from a lot of places, but sports is one way that people who don't enjoy say, raves, can get it. It's what leads to a lot of the negative behavior, but it also drives the most amazing part of being a sports fan, which is sharing an emotional moment with a group (be it happy or sad). You know that scene in Battlestar Galactica where Six talks about going to the pyramid games and feeling the energy of the crowd wash over her? That's a very real part of the sport fan experience. Does it put feed anyone who is hungry? No, but neither does art or music. The experience still has value though.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:11 AM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
I don't object to the cortex's decision, but I read the first comment--the one that stood--as saying "If you are a sports fan, you are a self-deceiving idiot. So please stop posting/discussing sports here"
Yeah, and I hear you—I feel like the whole arc of the exchange was kind of crappy, and the comment you were replying to was not great either. Mostly an issue of trying to nip the escalation in the bud, which is why I nixed yours and Scoo's comments and left a note, but it would have been great to have people skip some of the buildup there as well.
I didn't throw down until the "GTFO Non-sports fans" comments started. When I (politely) tell people I have no interest in sports, 100% of the time they look at me like I have two heads. I'm sick of it.
I feel you, Scoo, and I've been annoyed by that experience in my life as well at times. But as a general rule it's a really good idea to remember that some person commenting snarkily on mefi about something is neither an agent of nor an effective channel for distributing your however-justified annoyance to the random people not on metafilter who annoy you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:12 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
Yeah, and I hear you—I feel like the whole arc of the exchange was kind of crappy, and the comment you were replying to was not great either. Mostly an issue of trying to nip the escalation in the bud, which is why I nixed yours and Scoo's comments and left a note, but it would have been great to have people skip some of the buildup there as well.
I didn't throw down until the "GTFO Non-sports fans" comments started. When I (politely) tell people I have no interest in sports, 100% of the time they look at me like I have two heads. I'm sick of it.
I feel you, Scoo, and I've been annoyed by that experience in my life as well at times. But as a general rule it's a really good idea to remember that some person commenting snarkily on mefi about something is neither an agent of nor an effective channel for distributing your however-justified annoyance to the random people not on metafilter who annoy you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:12 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
It's possible to buy a sports jersey AND ALSO donate to charity. Just sayin'.
posted by desjardins at 8:13 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 8:13 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you buy a Barca kit, you do both at the same time!
posted by smackfu at 8:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 8:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't object to the cortex's decision, but I read the first comment--the one that stood--as saying "If you are a sports fan, you are a self-deceiving idiot. [...]
MarshallPoe, you sure read a lot of negative stuff into a message that didn't tell you to stop posting about sports and didn't call you an idiot.
The news stories are about grown men slumped over and crying and feeling betrayed and publicly burning someone in effigy and so on because an athlete moved from team A to team B. The comment you didn't like reads to me like a suggestion that these guys should not invest so much of themselves emotionally in what is, after all, always going to be a business corporation that, like all such corporations, will never (except in PR material) give a donkey's dick about them.
posted by pracowity at 8:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
MarshallPoe, you sure read a lot of negative stuff into a message that didn't tell you to stop posting about sports and didn't call you an idiot.
The news stories are about grown men slumped over and crying and feeling betrayed and publicly burning someone in effigy and so on because an athlete moved from team A to team B. The comment you didn't like reads to me like a suggestion that these guys should not invest so much of themselves emotionally in what is, after all, always going to be a business corporation that, like all such corporations, will never (except in PR material) give a donkey's dick about them.
posted by pracowity at 8:16 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tell me more, desjardins...
Do you have theories about chewing gum while engaged in ambulation?
posted by Mister_A at 8:16 AM on July 9, 2010
Do you have theories about chewing gum while engaged in ambulation?
posted by Mister_A at 8:16 AM on July 9, 2010
"Oh c'mon, that's bullshit. Show some self-control people."
I have to wonder how much of the degradation of self-control has to do with the internet anonymity aspect [insert greater fuckwad graphic here]. I mean, we feel "free" to say what's on our minds because we're on the internet. There's also the popular conception that it's "not good" to keep things "bottled up."
Regardless, self-control is not a perfect mechanism at any rate. The majority of situations do involve self-control, but we're only ever going to talk about the cases where it fails (note I didn't say "the majority of people retain self-control" because we're all human and therefore susceptible. See also: Fundamental Attribution Error/Correspondence Bias). It explodes because it builds up. It builds up because we're still getting used to this new style of conversation.
(There's also a social element involved. No one wants to think they're alone in an opinion. If they suspect there are others feeling the same way they do, they're more likely to voice that opinion in order to solicit/gather support. Because, after all, what is self-control in the absence of an agreement what that control should be? But I think this is secondary to the conversational shift. It's part of the metaconversation ("should we be discussing this" "how should we discuss this" etc) that, let's face it, we're gonna have and keep having. We're humans: not only do we love to talk, but we love to talk about how we talk.)
posted by Eideteker at 8:20 AM on July 9, 2010
I have to wonder how much of the degradation of self-control has to do with the internet anonymity aspect [insert greater fuckwad graphic here]. I mean, we feel "free" to say what's on our minds because we're on the internet. There's also the popular conception that it's "not good" to keep things "bottled up."
Regardless, self-control is not a perfect mechanism at any rate. The majority of situations do involve self-control, but we're only ever going to talk about the cases where it fails (note I didn't say "the majority of people retain self-control" because we're all human and therefore susceptible. See also: Fundamental Attribution Error/Correspondence Bias). It explodes because it builds up. It builds up because we're still getting used to this new style of conversation.
(There's also a social element involved. No one wants to think they're alone in an opinion. If they suspect there are others feeling the same way they do, they're more likely to voice that opinion in order to solicit/gather support. Because, after all, what is self-control in the absence of an agreement what that control should be? But I think this is secondary to the conversational shift. It's part of the metaconversation ("should we be discussing this" "how should we discuss this" etc) that, let's face it, we're gonna have and keep having. We're humans: not only do we love to talk, but we love to talk about how we talk.)
posted by Eideteker at 8:20 AM on July 9, 2010
Pro sports are the modern-day bread and circuses of ancient Rome.
No. Corporate news is.
posted by L'OM at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
No. Corporate news is.
posted by L'OM at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's because, even on Metafilter, nerds and jocks are archetypal enemies, like the cobra and the mongoose.
Until I joined MetaFilter, I always thought that films about American high schools were rather absurd. I thought, "if it's as odd as all that, then many people would pick up neuroses that lasted well into aduldhood".
Turns out I was right about the neuroses, but wrong about the realism of the films. The more you know!
posted by atrazine at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Until I joined MetaFilter, I always thought that films about American high schools were rather absurd. I thought, "if it's as odd as all that, then many people would pick up neuroses that lasted well into aduldhood".
Turns out I was right about the neuroses, but wrong about the realism of the films. The more you know!
posted by atrazine at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
What's your favorite snacks for watching games? Does it vary from sport to sport?
Well, hot dogs with baseball of course, beer with American football, and apparently I've been missing out on the bowl of dicks with basketball, since I've mostly stuck with popcorn.
posted by Mooski at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, hot dogs with baseball of course, beer with American football, and apparently I've been missing out on the bowl of dicks with basketball, since I've mostly stuck with popcorn.
posted by Mooski at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Let me expand on that snark a bit. What I mean is that just because people are upset about Sport Event X does not mean that those same people are not upset about Urban Problem X. There is no way to tell if the guy crying on the news about LeBron voted to strip funding to homeless shelters or if he works as a schoolteacher. At a societal level, sure, we pump a lot of money into sports that could go to social services. (We put a lot lot lot MORE money into the defense budget, but that's a total derail from the topic at hand.) But at an individual level there's no way to tell, and people should not be shamed because they care about a sports team. It's just not that simple.
posted by desjardins at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
For example - Packers fans are RABID. I mean my husband does not wear his Bears hat in Wisconsin.* Yet Green Bay has half the poverty rate of Cleveland, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of sports teams, individual players, or the dedication of their fans.
*Yes, I married a Bears fan, shut up.
posted by desjardins at 8:25 AM on July 9, 2010
*Yes, I married a Bears fan, shut up.
posted by desjardins at 8:25 AM on July 9, 2010
Ah, so you've been to an Eagles or Flyers game?
No.... the only time I have been in Philly was to see the Duchamps at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, you know... Rocky's favorite museum:
Before Rocky III, released in 1982, Stallone commissioned A. Thomas Schomberg to create a bronze statue of Rocky.[5] Three 2-ton, 10-foot-tall copies were cast. One was installed atop the steps for the filming of Rocky III and was ultimately relocated at the bottom of the steps. The other was later listed on eBay with a starting bid of US$5,000,000 to raise funds for the International Institute for Sport and Olympic History, but has failed to sell at that price or several times since at $1 million.[6]
After filming was complete, a debate arose between the Art Museum and Philadelphia's Art Commission over the meaning of "art." City officials, who argued that the statue was not "art" but a "movie prop," eventually moved it to the front of the Wachovia Spectrum in South Philadelphia.
It was later returned to the Art Museum for the filming of Rocky V, Mannequin and Philadelphia, then brought back to the Spectrum. The statue was replaced with a simple set of Converse sneaker footprints with words reading "Rocky" above them.
On September 8, 2006, the Rocky statue was returned to the Art Museum and placed on a pedestal in a grassy area near the foot of the steps to the right of the Museum. The unveiling ceremony included live music, the debut of the first full trailer for Rocky Balboa, and a free showing of the first Rocky movie. At the ceremony, Mayor John Street said that the steps were one of Philly's biggest tourist attractions, and that Stallone, a native New Yorker, had been gladly adopted by Philadelphia.
In Rocky Balboa, when Rocky told Paulie that he is going to make a comeback, Paulie suggested "You mad because they took down your statue?" which Rocky denied.
BTW, Stallone is also a painter
posted by R. Mutt at 8:26 AM on July 9, 2010
No.... the only time I have been in Philly was to see the Duchamps at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, you know... Rocky's favorite museum:
Before Rocky III, released in 1982, Stallone commissioned A. Thomas Schomberg to create a bronze statue of Rocky.[5] Three 2-ton, 10-foot-tall copies were cast. One was installed atop the steps for the filming of Rocky III and was ultimately relocated at the bottom of the steps. The other was later listed on eBay with a starting bid of US$5,000,000 to raise funds for the International Institute for Sport and Olympic History, but has failed to sell at that price or several times since at $1 million.[6]
After filming was complete, a debate arose between the Art Museum and Philadelphia's Art Commission over the meaning of "art." City officials, who argued that the statue was not "art" but a "movie prop," eventually moved it to the front of the Wachovia Spectrum in South Philadelphia.
It was later returned to the Art Museum for the filming of Rocky V, Mannequin and Philadelphia, then brought back to the Spectrum. The statue was replaced with a simple set of Converse sneaker footprints with words reading "Rocky" above them.
On September 8, 2006, the Rocky statue was returned to the Art Museum and placed on a pedestal in a grassy area near the foot of the steps to the right of the Museum. The unveiling ceremony included live music, the debut of the first full trailer for Rocky Balboa, and a free showing of the first Rocky movie. At the ceremony, Mayor John Street said that the steps were one of Philly's biggest tourist attractions, and that Stallone, a native New Yorker, had been gladly adopted by Philadelphia.
In Rocky Balboa, when Rocky told Paulie that he is going to make a comeback, Paulie suggested "You mad because they took down your statue?" which Rocky denied.
BTW, Stallone is also a painter
posted by R. Mutt at 8:26 AM on July 9, 2010
I came here not knowing about not being a sports fan. Hey, I thought WoW was short for "Whip it Out Wednesday" for a while. Ok, until about a month ago. I was too embarrassed to post that in the thread about what you finally learned too late in life on AskMeFi. Anyway, there is plenty of love to go around to like both the nerds and the jocks. Just keep your games off the fields of real games.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:27 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:27 AM on July 9, 2010
The majority of situations do involve self-control, but we're only ever going to talk about the cases where it fails
True enough. And it only takes one person having a bad day to derail an entire thread.
posted by smackfu at 8:27 AM on July 9, 2010
True enough. And it only takes one person having a bad day to derail an entire thread.
posted by smackfu at 8:27 AM on July 9, 2010
It really is sports Fans that I hate.
I hear ya. I live in the land of the Green and Gold, and come football season (and the months which lead up to it... and those that follow it.) people in this area just lose their freakin' minds. Which sucks for me, because I hate professional sports in general, and football in particular.
The best way I've learned to deal with it, is to just close my eyes and ignore it. Deep breaths help too.
This is why I avoid sports threads; because I have such a deep well of hostility from years of having every conversation eventually turn to "The Pack", every TV in my eyeline at work is showing something about "The Pack" going to a bar or restaurant or hell, even a store when there is a game on will everyone locked in rapt fascination of... "The Pack".
I have to avoid sports conversations because I worry that, with all that built up internal pressure, someone will ask my opinion and I'll be forced to tell them what I really think. And after they come and hose the blood and gristle off the walls, I'll probably not get invited back again.
posted by quin at 8:28 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I hear ya. I live in the land of the Green and Gold, and come football season (and the months which lead up to it... and those that follow it.) people in this area just lose their freakin' minds. Which sucks for me, because I hate professional sports in general, and football in particular.
The best way I've learned to deal with it, is to just close my eyes and ignore it. Deep breaths help too.
This is why I avoid sports threads; because I have such a deep well of hostility from years of having every conversation eventually turn to "The Pack", every TV in my eyeline at work is showing something about "The Pack" going to a bar or restaurant or hell, even a store when there is a game on will everyone locked in rapt fascination of... "The Pack".
I have to avoid sports conversations because I worry that, with all that built up internal pressure, someone will ask my opinion and I'll be forced to tell them what I really think. And after they come and hose the blood and gristle off the walls, I'll probably not get invited back again.
posted by quin at 8:28 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think what's most bothersome about sports is how perniciously it seems to take over conversation, and how unaware sports fans are of their invisible privilege. Now, I don't mean to detract from the plights of women or minorities by bringing up the "invisible privilege" concept, but it's really, truly there for sports fans. They can talk about sports anywhere, any time, and never have to worry about it being considered weird or inappropriate. They can completely geek out over statistics and minutia, and may get called "obsessive" by some, but it's not something that "needs hiding" like knowing Wedge Antilles' biography.
Yeah, threads don't need to be shit upon, and there's certainly a place for sports on Metafilter as much as politics or art. However, sports fans complaining about how they're treated garners about as much sympathy from me as American Christians claiming they're an oppressed group.
posted by explosion at 8:30 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Yeah, threads don't need to be shit upon, and there's certainly a place for sports on Metafilter as much as politics or art. However, sports fans complaining about how they're treated garners about as much sympathy from me as American Christians claiming they're an oppressed group.
posted by explosion at 8:30 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
desjardins: "For example - Packers fans are RABID. I mean my husband does not wear his Bears hat in Wisconsin.* Yet Green Bay has half the poverty rate of Cleveland, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of sports teams, individual players, or the dedication of their fans."
I don't know. Isn't Green Bay the only NFL team to be owned by the city itself? Green Bay loves their Packers because they really are their Packers. That's indicative of a community spirit that might be helping in other areas. I was hoping and praying that Cleveland would so something similar when the Browns came back, but instead it ended up being owned by a bunch of rich guys anyways.
posted by charred husk at 8:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
I don't know. Isn't Green Bay the only NFL team to be owned by the city itself? Green Bay loves their Packers because they really are their Packers. That's indicative of a community spirit that might be helping in other areas. I was hoping and praying that Cleveland would so something similar when the Browns came back, but instead it ended up being owned by a bunch of rich guys anyways.
posted by charred husk at 8:31 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
burhanistan-
Yea, I knew I was gonna get the get the cross comment from someone. /shrug. For me, change is a matter of conscience, for some it's not.
Also, I was responding to hyperbole with hyperbole.
posted by TomMelee at 8:32 AM on July 9, 2010
Yea, I knew I was gonna get the get the cross comment from someone. /shrug. For me, change is a matter of conscience, for some it's not.
Also, I was responding to hyperbole with hyperbole.
posted by TomMelee at 8:32 AM on July 9, 2010
The best snack for soccer is beer at inappropriate times, like 7AM.
posted by josher71 at 8:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by josher71 at 8:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
>Pro sports are the modern-day bread and circuses of ancient Rome.
No. Corporate news is.
Come on, surely you could have shoe-horned in some sort of 'sheeple' comment in there too?
posted by modernnomad at 8:37 AM on July 9, 2010
No. Corporate news is.
Come on, surely you could have shoe-horned in some sort of 'sheeple' comment in there too?
posted by modernnomad at 8:37 AM on July 9, 2010
They can talk about sports anywhere, any time, and never have to worry about it being considered weird or inappropriate. They can completely geek out over statistics and minutia, and may get called "obsessive" by some, but it's not something that "needs hiding" like knowing Wedge Antilles' biography.
Do you inhabit a reality where there are two people who want to talk about Wedge Antilles in public, but are so afraid of anti-Star Wars fan bullying that they keep their mouthes shut? 'Cause that's not the same place I live, so I want to know upfront. The only "privilege" sports fan enjoy that Star Wars fans don't is that there are more of them, so they're more likely to find a conversation partner. I like sports, I talk about it with other sports fan. I like nerd shit, I talk about it with other nerds. Sometimes these conversations are with the SAME PEOPLE. If I brought up Lebron with some people who didn't care about him, they would tell me that they didn't care and we'd talk about something else, just like if I decided to talk about Wedge.
However, sports fans complaining about how they're treated garners about as much sympathy from me as American Christians claiming they're an oppressed group.
Sorry, any time anyone basically tells you you're an idiot for having different interests than they do, you get to complain.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:37 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Do you inhabit a reality where there are two people who want to talk about Wedge Antilles in public, but are so afraid of anti-Star Wars fan bullying that they keep their mouthes shut? 'Cause that's not the same place I live, so I want to know upfront. The only "privilege" sports fan enjoy that Star Wars fans don't is that there are more of them, so they're more likely to find a conversation partner. I like sports, I talk about it with other sports fan. I like nerd shit, I talk about it with other nerds. Sometimes these conversations are with the SAME PEOPLE. If I brought up Lebron with some people who didn't care about him, they would tell me that they didn't care and we'd talk about something else, just like if I decided to talk about Wedge.
However, sports fans complaining about how they're treated garners about as much sympathy from me as American Christians claiming they're an oppressed group.
Sorry, any time anyone basically tells you you're an idiot for having different interests than they do, you get to complain.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:37 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm angry that sometimes people talk about shit that I'm not interested in.
posted by electroboy at 8:39 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by electroboy at 8:39 AM on July 9, 2010
For every opinion on Metafilter, there is an equal and opposite asshole to tell you how much you suck.
I'm trying to think of an exception to this....
And part of the thing is that it's been a sports-heavy few months with the World Cup and whatever was going on with LeBron yesterday and I think people who normally aren't that into sports have seen MeFi have a few more-than-usual "hey this is who won the game" posts which usually are over at SportsFilter. So if you're someone who sort of likes a sports-free MeFi, you have been getting less of that than usual. That said, you should really see the SLYT where the queen goes into the locker room, it's pretty good.
And it only takes one person having a bad day to derail an entire thread.
We had a Usual Suspect who was acting up in a thread on a Predictable Topic the other day [not quite deleteworthy but definitely an annoying and provocative comment by someone known for them] and cortex and I both remarked how psyched we were that literally no one responded to it. Part of the Sports issue here is that people care about the topic a lot and can't not reply, for whatever reason, and so our usual entreaties to flag and move on feel wanting.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:40 AM on July 9, 2010
I'm trying to think of an exception to this....
And part of the thing is that it's been a sports-heavy few months with the World Cup and whatever was going on with LeBron yesterday and I think people who normally aren't that into sports have seen MeFi have a few more-than-usual "hey this is who won the game" posts which usually are over at SportsFilter. So if you're someone who sort of likes a sports-free MeFi, you have been getting less of that than usual. That said, you should really see the SLYT where the queen goes into the locker room, it's pretty good.
And it only takes one person having a bad day to derail an entire thread.
We had a Usual Suspect who was acting up in a thread on a Predictable Topic the other day [not quite deleteworthy but definitely an annoying and provocative comment by someone known for them] and cortex and I both remarked how psyched we were that literally no one responded to it. Part of the Sports issue here is that people care about the topic a lot and can't not reply, for whatever reason, and so our usual entreaties to flag and move on feel wanting.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:40 AM on July 9, 2010
The endless war of Sports Fan vs Non-Fan.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:40 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:40 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
"It really is sports Fans that I hate."
(If I can switch out of Philosopher mode and back into wiseacre mode)
"Did you hear? We won last night? Now we're going to the championship!"
"Really? What position did you play? I didn't see you on the field."
But hey, enjoy your false sense of readymade belonging (see also comments about your favorite Sports Corporation).
P.S. - My mom is religious AND a sports fan. Which proves... something.
P.P.S. - Wiseacre is a great word, and should replace "wiseass" which is no longer original, clever, or funny.
posted by Eideteker at 8:46 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
(If I can switch out of Philosopher mode and back into wiseacre mode)
"Did you hear? We won last night? Now we're going to the championship!"
"Really? What position did you play? I didn't see you on the field."
But hey, enjoy your false sense of readymade belonging (see also comments about your favorite Sports Corporation).
P.S. - My mom is religious AND a sports fan. Which proves... something.
P.P.S. - Wiseacre is a great word, and should replace "wiseass" which is no longer original, clever, or funny.
posted by Eideteker at 8:46 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Looks like a Certain Moderator has come into a Contentious Thread and made some really Salient Points with good humor, respect, and Capitalization.
posted by Mister_A at 8:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 8:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
On September 8, 2006, the Rocky statue was returned to the Art Museum and placed on a pedestal in a grassy area near the foot of the steps to the right of the Museum. The unveiling ceremony included live music, the debut of the first full trailer for Rocky Balboa, and a free showing of the first Rocky movie.
People line up to take pics with him in the new spot.
posted by Pax at 8:47 AM on July 9, 2010
People line up to take pics with him in the new spot.
posted by Pax at 8:47 AM on July 9, 2010
Isn't Green Bay the only NFL team to be owned by the city itself?
Neat. I didn't know that.
posted by zarq at 8:52 AM on July 9, 2010
Neat. I didn't know that.
posted by zarq at 8:52 AM on July 9, 2010
"It's because, even on Metafilter, nerds and jocks are archetypal enemies, like the cobra and the mongoose. I look forward to a day where we all can live together in harmony."
That day is at hand. Sports are just another thing to geek out on.
To me, hard-core gaming and athletics are essentially the same class of activity. Except that as things stand now gaming engages less of your body. This is also changing with new wii/natal style controllers. I see a future where you perfect your sports technique in a home simulator.
If you don't think intellect is a key component of a game as rich and complex as basketball, you're not watching closely. Go Lakers!
posted by Manjusri at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2010
That day is at hand. Sports are just another thing to geek out on.
To me, hard-core gaming and athletics are essentially the same class of activity. Except that as things stand now gaming engages less of your body. This is also changing with new wii/natal style controllers. I see a future where you perfect your sports technique in a home simulator.
If you don't think intellect is a key component of a game as rich and complex as basketball, you're not watching closely. Go Lakers!
posted by Manjusri at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2010
I don't really care about sports, but I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people who don't care about video games, either.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2010
yhbc: "cortex, it was "bowl"; not "bag". These distinctions are important"
They stopped serving them in bowls after that game in Philadelphia.
posted by boo_radley at 8:55 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
They stopped serving them in bowls after that game in Philadelphia.
posted by boo_radley at 8:55 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hey Philly sports is about more than just cheap shots and battery-throwing. Now we have dog-fighting!
Whoop whoop whoop!
posted by Mister_A at 8:56 AM on July 9, 2010
Whoop whoop whoop!
posted by Mister_A at 8:56 AM on July 9, 2010
...but it's not something that "needs hiding" like knowing Wedge Antilles' biography
*starts Googling*
posted by new brand day at 8:58 AM on July 9, 2010
*starts Googling*
posted by new brand day at 8:58 AM on July 9, 2010
But hey, enjoy your false sense of readymade belonging
The thing is, it IS belonging. This is culture. You may not like it or enjoy it or it may not be your idea of a good time, but in the US and I'm sure in many other places, having a sports affiliation [even if it's just "Go Packers!"] gives you a bunch of people who will see you as someone who is, in some small way, part of something that they are also part of. This is true for TV shows and operating system wars and pet ownership and a ton of other things that allow people to find common ground and shared interests and understanding.
It may not be your thing, you may have a critique of it -- I certainly feel that way about shopping a lot of the time "what you guys have something in common because you both like spending money in the same stores?" -- but it's not fake, it's just not real to you. Jumping in and pissing on everyone's parade just seems like you're defining other people's experiences as inauthentic [yeah major league athletes are millionaires, okay, so? Did anyone say they weren't?] and more often then not, not even having a discussion about it, just saying "Your favorite cultural identity sucks."
It's really really simple to dismiss the things that other people care about while at the same time not talking about anything you personally care about. Being contrary for the sake of being contrary is tired, boring and lazy.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:58 AM on July 9, 2010 [50 favorites]
The thing is, it IS belonging. This is culture. You may not like it or enjoy it or it may not be your idea of a good time, but in the US and I'm sure in many other places, having a sports affiliation [even if it's just "Go Packers!"] gives you a bunch of people who will see you as someone who is, in some small way, part of something that they are also part of. This is true for TV shows and operating system wars and pet ownership and a ton of other things that allow people to find common ground and shared interests and understanding.
It may not be your thing, you may have a critique of it -- I certainly feel that way about shopping a lot of the time "what you guys have something in common because you both like spending money in the same stores?" -- but it's not fake, it's just not real to you. Jumping in and pissing on everyone's parade just seems like you're defining other people's experiences as inauthentic [yeah major league athletes are millionaires, okay, so? Did anyone say they weren't?] and more often then not, not even having a discussion about it, just saying "Your favorite cultural identity sucks."
It's really really simple to dismiss the things that other people care about while at the same time not talking about anything you personally care about. Being contrary for the sake of being contrary is tired, boring and lazy.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:58 AM on July 9, 2010 [50 favorites]
knowing Wedge Antilles' biography
Speaking as someone who still remembers Gallifrey's galactic coordinates, I say to you: LOLNERD.
posted by everichon at 9:00 AM on July 9, 2010
Speaking as someone who still remembers Gallifrey's galactic coordinates, I say to you: LOLNERD.
posted by everichon at 9:00 AM on July 9, 2010
I like art. I like video games. I like sports. I have two post-graduate degrees and am working on the PhD. I am in a top-20 department at a large research university. Many, many, many people in this department enjoy sports, enjoy talking about sports, enjoy watching sports, and enjoy playing sports. This jock/nerd distinction is bullshit. If you think that by pointing out to a bunch of social scientists that sports is the "beer and circus" of the modern times that you are somehow removing the wool from their eyes, you are mistaken. These things are not zero-sum. Many faculty and grad students enjoy sports AND are spending their professional time and energy trying to improve our understanding of the world.
You can disapprove of public funding measures for new stadia (this is a HUGE issue in Seattle, where voters rejected public funding, yet the new soccer team is massive), you can disapprove of meat-headed post-game violence (I do too), and you can disapprove of the violent undertones of sports. What you can't do, though, is tell people where they should spend their time and money and, further, I'm pretty sure that being a sanctimonious prick has never changed a single mind.
posted by proj at 9:00 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
You can disapprove of public funding measures for new stadia (this is a HUGE issue in Seattle, where voters rejected public funding, yet the new soccer team is massive), you can disapprove of meat-headed post-game violence (I do too), and you can disapprove of the violent undertones of sports. What you can't do, though, is tell people where they should spend their time and money and, further, I'm pretty sure that being a sanctimonious prick has never changed a single mind.
posted by proj at 9:00 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
Also, speaking as someone who is in a field that studies culture and takes it VERY seriously, I can tell you that you're only fooling yourself trying to find the "authentic" culture that generates a real "sense of belonging" rather than this phony stuff that sports fans have somehow been duped into.
posted by proj at 9:01 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by proj at 9:01 AM on July 9, 2010 [10 favorites]
Gallifrey isn't there anymore. Kinda like Alderaan.
posted by Babblesort at 9:06 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Babblesort at 9:06 AM on July 9, 2010
It's possible to buy a sports jersey AND ALSO donate to charity. Just sayin'.
Or buy a bobble head of drew carey.
posted by nomisxid at 9:08 AM on July 9, 2010
Or buy a bobble head of drew carey.
posted by nomisxid at 9:08 AM on July 9, 2010
Or let Drew Carey, the bobble head, come back to Cleveland and try to tell you how to run the city, for that matter.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:14 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:14 AM on July 9, 2010
But hey, enjoy your false sense of readymade belonging
A few weeks back, I was wearing my Kerry GAA jersey I bought while on vacation a few years ago. I'm crossing Boston Common and an Irishman called out to me asking where I got the shirt and if I was a fan. We chatted for a bit, he bought me a soda ("Too warm out to talk without something wet, and I've to go back to work so a pint is out. Want a soda?"), and we talked about the Kingdom (me, how I liked to visit it; him, how he grew up there). The guy seemed genuinely pleased to talk about his homeland, even though I'm sure he was a bit disappointed I wasn't up on the latest team happenings. I did point him to the bar I go to that actually shows the GAA games, though, and according to the bartender a few days ago, the guy has stopped in a few times.
So yeah, just wearing the colors can lead to belonging.
or at least a free soda
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
A few weeks back, I was wearing my Kerry GAA jersey I bought while on vacation a few years ago. I'm crossing Boston Common and an Irishman called out to me asking where I got the shirt and if I was a fan. We chatted for a bit, he bought me a soda ("Too warm out to talk without something wet, and I've to go back to work so a pint is out. Want a soda?"), and we talked about the Kingdom (me, how I liked to visit it; him, how he grew up there). The guy seemed genuinely pleased to talk about his homeland, even though I'm sure he was a bit disappointed I wasn't up on the latest team happenings. I did point him to the bar I go to that actually shows the GAA games, though, and according to the bartender a few days ago, the guy has stopped in a few times.
So yeah, just wearing the colors can lead to belonging.
or at least a free soda
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:21 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
So I love sports but hate Cleveland, can I still post in that thread?
posted by octothorpe at 9:22 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by octothorpe at 9:22 AM on July 9, 2010
Happens in Contemporary Art threads too!
Alright, R.Mutt. I'm gonna go ahead and break this one down in case my suspicions are correct and people didn't get that one.
'R. Mutt' was the name Marcel Duchamp signed to his piece "Fountain", which was in reality simply a urinal he found. A urinal. Pissing in threads. Get it? It's eponysterical.
Sorry if I'm wrong and you all did get it and just didn't find it as funny as me.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Alright, R.Mutt. I'm gonna go ahead and break this one down in case my suspicions are correct and people didn't get that one.
'R. Mutt' was the name Marcel Duchamp signed to his piece "Fountain", which was in reality simply a urinal he found. A urinal. Pissing in threads. Get it? It's eponysterical.
Sorry if I'm wrong and you all did get it and just didn't find it as funny as me.
posted by Kirk Grim at 9:27 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
But hey, enjoy your false sense of readymade belonging
*joins Metafilter*
posted by new brand day at 9:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]
*joins Metafilter*
posted by new brand day at 9:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [13 favorites]
...the anti-intellectualism that typifies the average sports fan.
Ugh. There is a societal contingent of people who are meatheads (half of everyone in the world is at or below average IQ -- go figure) that also like sports, but some of the greatest and most engaging intellectuals I have ever met are the hugest sports fans. Baseball moreso than others because of its chess-like qualities -- there's a subtext behind and beneath every strategic move, and while it may look like those players are just standing there to the average dismissive anti-sports person, there's furious mental activity taking place at unseen levels. If the physical pace of baseball were any faster, I doubt that the human mind would be able to keep up with play.
I appreciate basketball in particular because it has an extreme amount of mental rigor at the same time that furiously fast and continuous play is taking place. Superficially, it's some guys running back and forth, but at a deeper level, there's a very chess-like quality to it as well. Basketball players themselves are not stupid people.
One can dislike the larger business world that encapsulates professional sports, and one can dislike ant-intellectualism in general; thus is your right, and I agree with you there. The basis of sport when you strip away those things is still a valid human endeavor, so long as all are days are not filled up with the hunting and gathering, which is, from what I can tell, part and parcel of why we have gathered together as societies in the first place. Allow your fellow man his diversion.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Ugh. There is a societal contingent of people who are meatheads (half of everyone in the world is at or below average IQ -- go figure) that also like sports, but some of the greatest and most engaging intellectuals I have ever met are the hugest sports fans. Baseball moreso than others because of its chess-like qualities -- there's a subtext behind and beneath every strategic move, and while it may look like those players are just standing there to the average dismissive anti-sports person, there's furious mental activity taking place at unseen levels. If the physical pace of baseball were any faster, I doubt that the human mind would be able to keep up with play.
I appreciate basketball in particular because it has an extreme amount of mental rigor at the same time that furiously fast and continuous play is taking place. Superficially, it's some guys running back and forth, but at a deeper level, there's a very chess-like quality to it as well. Basketball players themselves are not stupid people.
One can dislike the larger business world that encapsulates professional sports, and one can dislike ant-intellectualism in general; thus is your right, and I agree with you there. The basis of sport when you strip away those things is still a valid human endeavor, so long as all are days are not filled up with the hunting and gathering, which is, from what I can tell, part and parcel of why we have gathered together as societies in the first place. Allow your fellow man his diversion.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:29 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
The nerd vs. jock thing always struck me a pretty ridiculous on MeFi, considering a pretty nerdy guy with a cycling fetish started the damn thing, and you probably couldn't swing a dead cat around without hitting more of the same. Granted, I'm lazy and stupid, so I don't fit either mould, but it's a really childish and particularly stupid false dichotomy, considering most of us are a long way from junior high.
Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth.
That's why my kids will only be exposed to modern British poets. Who needs LeBron when I have Phillip Larkin?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:37 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth.
That's why my kids will only be exposed to modern British poets. Who needs LeBron when I have Phillip Larkin?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:37 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
People are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth.
posted by smackfu at 9:39 AM on July 9, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 9:39 AM on July 9, 2010 [14 favorites]
I'm crossing Boston Common and an Irishman called out to me asking where I got the shirt and if I was a fan.
Dude, Irishman is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish-American, please.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:40 AM on July 9, 2010
Dude, Irishman is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish-American, please.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:40 AM on July 9, 2010
Is this the thread where I complain about my roommates turning off WALL-E to watch the LeBron James special?
No? Oh, okay.
posted by reductiondesign at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
No? Oh, okay.
posted by reductiondesign at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
Does this mean I can't ask my "Football's the one with the sticks, right?" joke anymore. It seems like it's a big hit at parties.
posted by edbles at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by edbles at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
Unless you're being flip and I'm missing it, I think he's actually referring to someone who is Irish rather than Irish-American.
posted by proj at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by proj at 9:42 AM on July 9, 2010
If the physical pace of baseball were any faster, I doubt that the human mind would be able to keep up with play.
... and yet if the pace were any slower fan and player alike would slump into a soporific coma. They've found the perfect balance!
posted by ecurtz at 9:45 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
... and yet if the pace were any slower fan and player alike would slump into a soporific coma. They've found the perfect balance!
posted by ecurtz at 9:45 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
I live in New England where being a Red Sox fan is pretty much compulsory. You really have to be a citizen of Red Sox Nation or we'll deport you. I used to be a pretty casual fan, supporting them because I feared extradition to New York or something, but then I went to a game...
It was pretty much like a religious experience. I mean that sincerely. I later went to see the Dalai Lama and there was not only the same sense of shared identity amongst the crowd, but the man wore a Patriots hat while he spoke. Do you know why he did that? His Holiness isn't a Pats fan and probably doesn't know a first down from his elbow, but he makes an effort wherever he goes to "fit in" to the local culture to make people feel comfortable with him. He sincerely tries to find the "heart" of the people he's speaking to and connect to it.
And in New England? Dude, if you put on a Patriots hat, we'll listen.
And I mean it about the shared feeling of belonging and identity in both stadia. Almost identical in terms of the greater "vibe." A bunch of people sitting their asses in bleachers to share an experience. It's really not a bad part of being a member of society - even if you can't stand to watch sports on TV, I highly recommend just going to a game with friends, hanging out, eating some hot dogs... for a brief two hours, everyone in the room is united with the same intentions.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:49 AM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
It was pretty much like a religious experience. I mean that sincerely. I later went to see the Dalai Lama and there was not only the same sense of shared identity amongst the crowd, but the man wore a Patriots hat while he spoke. Do you know why he did that? His Holiness isn't a Pats fan and probably doesn't know a first down from his elbow, but he makes an effort wherever he goes to "fit in" to the local culture to make people feel comfortable with him. He sincerely tries to find the "heart" of the people he's speaking to and connect to it.
And in New England? Dude, if you put on a Patriots hat, we'll listen.
And I mean it about the shared feeling of belonging and identity in both stadia. Almost identical in terms of the greater "vibe." A bunch of people sitting their asses in bleachers to share an experience. It's really not a bad part of being a member of society - even if you can't stand to watch sports on TV, I highly recommend just going to a game with friends, hanging out, eating some hot dogs... for a brief two hours, everyone in the room is united with the same intentions.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:49 AM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
Everyone, please...think about it... this was a discussion prompted by an hour long network SPECIAL about... wait for it.... wait... just a bit longer... ready??? about someone changing jobs! ONE person, changed his job, took a pay cut...
Hell, if that was worth a SPECIAL tv show, the damn unemployment situation in Michigan should be running 24/7 on CBS/NBC/ABC/ AND ESPN.
Perhaps the absurdity of this is part of the reason people react as they do...
posted by HuronBob at 9:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hell, if that was worth a SPECIAL tv show, the damn unemployment situation in Michigan should be running 24/7 on CBS/NBC/ABC/ AND ESPN.
Perhaps the absurdity of this is part of the reason people react as they do...
posted by HuronBob at 9:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
You know how we all sometimes fall into the trap of immediately dismissing someone because they're all into _______? Yeah, that.
People who automatically and categorically piss on religion, sports, politics, star wars and other pop culture geekery, code and other nerd pass times, celebrity news, etc. etc. etc. really are about the most useless people on the planet. People are into something that you're not, and they want to talk about it.
Step 1: walk away. No one says you have to read the thread
Step 2: go ahead and read, but at least have the good sense to shut up, cause the hard truth is you don't have anything substantive to contribute cause you just started to think about this stuff. It's not like there won't be someone in the exact same position who lacks your new found discipline and says what you were going to, anyway - so save yourself the time.
Step 3: this is the important part, if you can get past your own baggage, you might actually learn something about the subject at hand, the people who follow it, and even the posters themselves. In the best case, what you learn isn't strictly about the subject in particular, but the world at large. Congratulations.
Here's what you don't do: telegraph your Ptolemic sense of self by insisting that this thing that you're not into also not be talked about and not be force read into your brain. It makes you look like a book burner, or like someone who wants to regulate our bedroom activities. Those people suck, be less like them.
If you're paying attention, the Lebron thing would immediately remove about half the job switching threads on AskMe. Short version: don't do it that way. If you immediately threw out what could have been learned there because it's sports, or Nike, or Lebron, or whatever, I honestly feel sorry for you, because you're that much poorer for it.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 9:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
People who automatically and categorically piss on religion, sports, politics, star wars and other pop culture geekery, code and other nerd pass times, celebrity news, etc. etc. etc. really are about the most useless people on the planet. People are into something that you're not, and they want to talk about it.
Step 1: walk away. No one says you have to read the thread
Step 2: go ahead and read, but at least have the good sense to shut up, cause the hard truth is you don't have anything substantive to contribute cause you just started to think about this stuff. It's not like there won't be someone in the exact same position who lacks your new found discipline and says what you were going to, anyway - so save yourself the time.
Step 3: this is the important part, if you can get past your own baggage, you might actually learn something about the subject at hand, the people who follow it, and even the posters themselves. In the best case, what you learn isn't strictly about the subject in particular, but the world at large. Congratulations.
Here's what you don't do: telegraph your Ptolemic sense of self by insisting that this thing that you're not into also not be talked about and not be force read into your brain. It makes you look like a book burner, or like someone who wants to regulate our bedroom activities. Those people suck, be less like them.
If you're paying attention, the Lebron thing would immediately remove about half the job switching threads on AskMe. Short version: don't do it that way. If you immediately threw out what could have been learned there because it's sports, or Nike, or Lebron, or whatever, I honestly feel sorry for you, because you're that much poorer for it.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 9:52 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
everichon: Speaking as someone who still remembers Gallifrey's galactic coordinates, I say to you: LOLNERD.
Can't tell you my own phone number sometimes, can never remember what the street numbers in Chicago are so have a terrible sense of direction, but holy shit, I just realized that I know them off the top of my head too.*
I think that even though you were joking, this is a prime example of the difference in behavior. While lots of people with geek and nerd or just plain fanboy hobbies and interests may have had issue with this being teased growing up, that really only continues into adulthood (at least I hope) as the ribbing that might happen between fan contingencies or maybe your own friends.
Lord knows, my ability to identify almost any episode of Doctor Who within the first 15 seconds isn't something I'm going to put on a resume, but I don't think the time I've spent being a dork makes me a bad person, any more than the fact that I watch sports means I'm some how wasting my life. Doing something that makes you happy doesn't detract you from doing "good deeds" or "smart things."
Though I don't come to MetaFilter for sports talk, what bothers me is the open hostility and the "sports fans are X" generalizations that really feel far more out of place here than any sports thread.
(I could say the same thing about commentary about pop culture but I know that's not even a battle I'm up for)
Every time I try to get to Gallifrey, I end up on Alzarius. Fuckin' CVEs.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:57 AM on July 9, 2010
Can't tell you my own phone number sometimes, can never remember what the street numbers in Chicago are so have a terrible sense of direction, but holy shit, I just realized that I know them off the top of my head too.*
I think that even though you were joking, this is a prime example of the difference in behavior. While lots of people with geek and nerd or just plain fanboy hobbies and interests may have had issue with this being teased growing up, that really only continues into adulthood (at least I hope) as the ribbing that might happen between fan contingencies or maybe your own friends.
Lord knows, my ability to identify almost any episode of Doctor Who within the first 15 seconds isn't something I'm going to put on a resume, but I don't think the time I've spent being a dork makes me a bad person, any more than the fact that I watch sports means I'm some how wasting my life. Doing something that makes you happy doesn't detract you from doing "good deeds" or "smart things."
Though I don't come to MetaFilter for sports talk, what bothers me is the open hostility and the "sports fans are X" generalizations that really feel far more out of place here than any sports thread.
(I could say the same thing about commentary about pop culture but I know that's not even a battle I'm up for)
Every time I try to get to Gallifrey, I end up on Alzarius. Fuckin' CVEs.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:57 AM on July 9, 2010
Hell, if that was worth a SPECIAL tv show, the damn unemployment situation in Michigan should be running 24/7 on CBS/NBC/ABC/ AND ESPN.
You think that's bad, though, consider that Two And A Half Men has been given a half hour every week for seven years.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:01 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
You think that's bad, though, consider that Two And A Half Men has been given a half hour every week for seven years.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:01 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Well, hot dogs with baseball of course, beer with American football, and apparently I've been missing out on the bowl of dicks with basketball, since I've mostly stuck with popcorn.
All I have to say is,as much as I love the Blazers, there are a lot of times when no matter what I'm eating during a game, it feels like a bowl of dicks. Or rather, what I imagine a bowl of dicks would feel like.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:05 AM on July 9, 2010
All I have to say is,as much as I love the Blazers, there are a lot of times when no matter what I'm eating during a game, it feels like a bowl of dicks. Or rather, what I imagine a bowl of dicks would feel like.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:05 AM on July 9, 2010
Dude, Irishman is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish-American, please.
He wasn't American - he's just over here for a few months on a contract job. I also wasn't aware "Irishman" was on the list, so sorry for that.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2010
He wasn't American - he's just over here for a few months on a contract job. I also wasn't aware "Irishman" was on the list, so sorry for that.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2010
I think, for many of us, MeFi is a haven from inane sports talk (Hence a separate SportsFilter).
That's certainly a perspective. The email I remember getting when the site started was something along the lines of "Hey, we saw you trying to discuss sports on MetaFilter. We've given up on it too. Care to try a new site?" Which speaks to the "happens in contemporary art threads too": maybe it does, but I doubt it. Contemporary art isn't something everyone feels comfortable commenting on. I'm sure there's a small segment of "Why don't it look like real life? This is just piss in a toilet. Hurf Durf" that happens, but is that hard to ignore? Sports threads here— if they're about a story large enough to cross over into the "normal" news and not about an acceptable (i.e., not played in America's south or west or midwest and possibly spelt in a foreign language) sport— are guilty until proven innocent and every nabob who feels like it jumps in to say how they hate sports.
The bad news: you're the asshole you rail against. I'm a huge sports fan. I hate sports fans too. When strangers try to engage me about Local Team, I tend to shy away because I know there's a 95% chance I'll get superfuckingpissed because they don't know jack shit. I nearly got in a fight (because I am still an immature dickhead at some level, but I'm working on it Ringo) during the US-Ghana game because I had to listen to some dude over my shoulder who'd picked up the sport 15 minutes ago drone on and on at the top of his lungs about how the US should be taking "short corners". Seriously. Like 100x. As though that were the problem and not the line up and not the formation problems Ghana posed or the disparity in talent between the US and Ghana. And I consider myself totally uniformed about futbol. So those sports fans you say you hate: they're you except their insecurity leads them to try to be a joiner instead of a stand-offish type.
The thing is, it IS belonging. This is culture. You may not like it or enjoy it or it may not be your idea of a good time
Totally. Ignore sports if you want, but it's the same damn thing as you care about only in a different form. Yes it's melodrama. Yes it leads to brutes having too much to drink and yelling. But it's just one version of human nature. The laundry we root for is just one other way we arbitrarily split ourselves into Us versus Them to yell at each other. Politics is hardly different. You can claim US politics has much more import for my life, but it's only true about 2% of the time. The rest of it is pork being handed out to make a bridge in some flyover state. But it's ok to show up here in formation, wearing our silly hats and buttons and foam fingers and wait for them to drop the balloons on the stranger we've never heard of who we'll never meet who doesn't give a shit about us and is only in it for the fame and money because it's politics and that's for Smart People. And we're all above average here, right?
Sports is just more honest than a lot of the other splits we use. Sports requires you to be demonstrably better than someone else. And it requires the performers to take great risks and put their self-image on the line. You may find art in a terrific dramatic performance (I do too) in a movie. But if the actor falls flat, he or she gets another shot. It was just a bad movie, bad script, bad director, things went wrong. If an athlete misses the penalty kick that would have catapulted his country and maybe his whole continent into ecstasy, there may never be an act two. To be gross but honest about it, what I said in re: that Ghana/ Uruguay conclusion was: "Let's be honest: one of the reasons sports is so fascinating is the chance to see the best at what they do potentially shit themselves on a world stage." Someone wins and they do it at the cost of someone else and there's no safety net. That's drama.
posted by yerfatma at 10:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
That's certainly a perspective. The email I remember getting when the site started was something along the lines of "Hey, we saw you trying to discuss sports on MetaFilter. We've given up on it too. Care to try a new site?" Which speaks to the "happens in contemporary art threads too": maybe it does, but I doubt it. Contemporary art isn't something everyone feels comfortable commenting on. I'm sure there's a small segment of "Why don't it look like real life? This is just piss in a toilet. Hurf Durf" that happens, but is that hard to ignore? Sports threads here— if they're about a story large enough to cross over into the "normal" news and not about an acceptable (i.e., not played in America's south or west or midwest and possibly spelt in a foreign language) sport— are guilty until proven innocent and every nabob who feels like it jumps in to say how they hate sports.
The bad news: you're the asshole you rail against. I'm a huge sports fan. I hate sports fans too. When strangers try to engage me about Local Team, I tend to shy away because I know there's a 95% chance I'll get superfuckingpissed because they don't know jack shit. I nearly got in a fight (because I am still an immature dickhead at some level, but I'm working on it Ringo) during the US-Ghana game because I had to listen to some dude over my shoulder who'd picked up the sport 15 minutes ago drone on and on at the top of his lungs about how the US should be taking "short corners". Seriously. Like 100x. As though that were the problem and not the line up and not the formation problems Ghana posed or the disparity in talent between the US and Ghana. And I consider myself totally uniformed about futbol. So those sports fans you say you hate: they're you except their insecurity leads them to try to be a joiner instead of a stand-offish type.
The thing is, it IS belonging. This is culture. You may not like it or enjoy it or it may not be your idea of a good time
Totally. Ignore sports if you want, but it's the same damn thing as you care about only in a different form. Yes it's melodrama. Yes it leads to brutes having too much to drink and yelling. But it's just one version of human nature. The laundry we root for is just one other way we arbitrarily split ourselves into Us versus Them to yell at each other. Politics is hardly different. You can claim US politics has much more import for my life, but it's only true about 2% of the time. The rest of it is pork being handed out to make a bridge in some flyover state. But it's ok to show up here in formation, wearing our silly hats and buttons and foam fingers and wait for them to drop the balloons on the stranger we've never heard of who we'll never meet who doesn't give a shit about us and is only in it for the fame and money because it's politics and that's for Smart People. And we're all above average here, right?
Sports is just more honest than a lot of the other splits we use. Sports requires you to be demonstrably better than someone else. And it requires the performers to take great risks and put their self-image on the line. You may find art in a terrific dramatic performance (I do too) in a movie. But if the actor falls flat, he or she gets another shot. It was just a bad movie, bad script, bad director, things went wrong. If an athlete misses the penalty kick that would have catapulted his country and maybe his whole continent into ecstasy, there may never be an act two. To be gross but honest about it, what I said in re: that Ghana/ Uruguay conclusion was: "Let's be honest: one of the reasons sports is so fascinating is the chance to see the best at what they do potentially shit themselves on a world stage." Someone wins and they do it at the cost of someone else and there's no safety net. That's drama.
posted by yerfatma at 10:08 AM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
"You really have to be a citizen of Red Sox Nation or we'll deport you."
I have been to TWO Red Sox games, and I still couldn't get deported. Though I am currently working in NYC, which is some relief from the RSN.
"Dude, Irishman is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish-American, please."
The Irishman is not the issue here!
posted by Eideteker at 10:12 AM on July 9, 2010
I have been to TWO Red Sox games, and I still couldn't get deported. Though I am currently working in NYC, which is some relief from the RSN.
"Dude, Irishman is not the preferred nomenclature. Irish-American, please."
The Irishman is not the issue here!
posted by Eideteker at 10:12 AM on July 9, 2010
I like sports. But I'm also a nerd. Basically I balance this by alternately beating myself up and making snotty comments about what a meathead I am.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:17 AM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I generally enjoy the lighthearted banter and good-natured joshing of sports threads as a rather schmoopy alternative to the religion threads.
posted by Shohn at 10:19 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Shohn at 10:19 AM on July 9, 2010
I have absolutely zero interest in video games, science fiction, comic books (sorry..."graphic novels"), or typefaces. That makes about 70% of MeFi of no interest to me. And yet I don't shit in those threads.
It's not too much to ask that others restrain themselves in sports threads.
posted by rocket88 at 10:20 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
It's not too much to ask that others restrain themselves in sports threads.
posted by rocket88 at 10:20 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
I think, for many of us, MeFi is a haven from inane sports talk (Hence a separate SportsFilter).
I'm really, really not a fan of sports. At all. There's a gaming site I go to where World Cup crap is in almost literally every god-damned thread. People have even shopped vuvuzelas into their avatars and put "BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" in their sigs. It's annoying as hell. Thankfully, that'll all be over after Sunday.
Also thankfully, here at Metafilter, there are no avatars and signatures, and sports talk stays in sports threads. I can skip those. It's surprisingly easy to just scroll past them, rather than enter them and drop some putrid turd in a thread where people are discussing something that interests them.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010
I'm really, really not a fan of sports. At all. There's a gaming site I go to where World Cup crap is in almost literally every god-damned thread. People have even shopped vuvuzelas into their avatars and put "BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" in their sigs. It's annoying as hell. Thankfully, that'll all be over after Sunday.
Also thankfully, here at Metafilter, there are no avatars and signatures, and sports talk stays in sports threads. I can skip those. It's surprisingly easy to just scroll past them, rather than enter them and drop some putrid turd in a thread where people are discussing something that interests them.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010
I generally enjoy the lighthearted banter and good-natured joshing of sports threads as a rather schmoopy alternative to the religion threads.
You and me both. I think people get more bent about religion because they see more policy changes and legislation generally that is affected or suggested as a result of people's religious preferences. That said, one of the main reasons I left Seattle was because of the damned second sports stadium. And I was bitching about it to someone one day and I realized that a lot of the people there were not only totally okay with the stadium [and the special election, and the crazy boosterism surrounding it and the years of torn up streets] but that they actively liked it. And so it was time for me to go. And now I live in a state without a major league sports team. And I like it better.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010
You and me both. I think people get more bent about religion because they see more policy changes and legislation generally that is affected or suggested as a result of people's religious preferences. That said, one of the main reasons I left Seattle was because of the damned second sports stadium. And I was bitching about it to someone one day and I realized that a lot of the people there were not only totally okay with the stadium [and the special election, and the crazy boosterism surrounding it and the years of torn up streets] but that they actively liked it. And so it was time for me to go. And now I live in a state without a major league sports team. And I like it better.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010
MetaFilter: A Haven For Inane Talk On a Variety of Topics Except For Sports.
MetaFilter: Because If We Don't Talk About Lady Gaga, Who Will?
MetaFilter: Three More FPPs, And I'm Sure They'll Put Firefly Back On.
MetaFilter: Know Who's A Jackass? Glenn Beck, That's Who.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: Because If We Don't Talk About Lady Gaga, Who Will?
MetaFilter: Three More FPPs, And I'm Sure They'll Put Firefly Back On.
MetaFilter: Know Who's A Jackass? Glenn Beck, That's Who.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:23 AM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: A cocktail party where everyone brought an ax and the host is handing out grindstones.
posted by edbles at 10:27 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by edbles at 10:27 AM on July 9, 2010
I'm basically a nerd. I also like basketball. it's entertainment, it's spectacle, it's a chance to watch people who are the best in the world at something do it really really well.
However, I am not eight. I KNOW the Lakers are a corporation. I am fully aware that Kobe Bryant does not care about me, and is in fact unaware of my existence on Earth. I know that he does his job partially for the money, like almost everyone else on Earth. You know what? The same exact thing could be said about your favorite classical musician, or goddamn NPR host, or whatever. We pay attention to these people because they are very good at what they do. The idea that they should also be "average Joes" is contradictory and ridiculous. If I want to see an average guy play basketball I'll go to the park.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
However, I am not eight. I KNOW the Lakers are a corporation. I am fully aware that Kobe Bryant does not care about me, and is in fact unaware of my existence on Earth. I know that he does his job partially for the money, like almost everyone else on Earth. You know what? The same exact thing could be said about your favorite classical musician, or goddamn NPR host, or whatever. We pay attention to these people because they are very good at what they do. The idea that they should also be "average Joes" is contradictory and ridiculous. If I want to see an average guy play basketball I'll go to the park.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
P.S. - My mom is religious AND a sports fan. Which proves... something.
I'm irreligious AND a sports fan. Which proves... ?
posted by kmz at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2010
I'm irreligious AND a sports fan. Which proves... ?
posted by kmz at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2010
comic books (sorry..."graphic novels")
No, those are two different things.
posted by reductiondesign at 10:38 AM on July 9, 2010
No, those are two different things.
posted by reductiondesign at 10:38 AM on July 9, 2010
The answer to the original question is because of the long lines at the restrooms. Moving on.
posted by Wolfdog at 10:38 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Wolfdog at 10:38 AM on July 9, 2010
You think that's bad, though, consider that Two And A Half Men has been given a half hour every week for seven years.
The fact that that horrible, execrable excuse for a show got 6 Emmy nominations (6! also they seem to think it is a comedy! idefk!) this year makes me long desperately for the zombie apocalypse and the subsequent near-destruction of the human race.
Especially since Community got ZERO. wtf, emmy voters, you are jerkfaces.
posted by elizardbits at 10:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The fact that that horrible, execrable excuse for a show got 6 Emmy nominations (6! also they seem to think it is a comedy! idefk!) this year makes me long desperately for the zombie apocalypse and the subsequent near-destruction of the human race.
Especially since Community got ZERO. wtf, emmy voters, you are jerkfaces.
posted by elizardbits at 10:47 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
> And while you can avoid participating in the further discussion after reading the initial premise and deciding it does not interest you, you can't avoid those initial threads of conversation—not unless you want to give up on conversation in general (even temporarily).
Oh, bullshit. There's no conversation involved when you're "reading the initial premise," because that's the post. To get to the conversation you have to click on the link to get into the thread, which is where the conversation is happening. If you do that, you're deliberately choosing to enter a conversation about something that allegedly "does not interest you," which is stupid. And if you then choose to make a comment about how much it doesn't interest you and how much contempt you have for the people who are interested, you're a troublemaking jerk.
posted by languagehat at 11:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [15 favorites]
Oh, bullshit. There's no conversation involved when you're "reading the initial premise," because that's the post. To get to the conversation you have to click on the link to get into the thread, which is where the conversation is happening. If you do that, you're deliberately choosing to enter a conversation about something that allegedly "does not interest you," which is stupid. And if you then choose to make a comment about how much it doesn't interest you and how much contempt you have for the people who are interested, you're a troublemaking jerk.
posted by languagehat at 11:14 AM on July 9, 2010 [15 favorites]
I'm Irish-American and my preferred form of address is 'Drunken Mick/Yank', please. Thank you. Now who wants to fight?
posted by umberto at 11:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by umberto at 11:15 AM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
I am in a top-20 department at a large research university. Many, many, many people in this department enjoy sports, enjoy talking about sports, enjoy watching sports, and enjoy playing sports. This jock/nerd distinction is bullshit.
A few weeks ago I was hanging out with friends from grad school in a bar in NYC to watch a few of the WC matches that were on that day. A few of us are rabid fans and others (mostly partners) were there for the hang out because, as a group we hadn't met up in a very long time. It was fun, catching up, drinking beers, smack talking and watching the games. For the purpose of the story I should point out that, out of the eight of us, seven have PhDs. At one point someone said: "You know, anywhere else this would be called a brain-trust." We laughed and got back to the beer drinking, the smack talking, game watching etc. More anecdata that the jock/nerd distinction is total bullshit.
posted by ob at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2010
A few weeks ago I was hanging out with friends from grad school in a bar in NYC to watch a few of the WC matches that were on that day. A few of us are rabid fans and others (mostly partners) were there for the hang out because, as a group we hadn't met up in a very long time. It was fun, catching up, drinking beers, smack talking and watching the games. For the purpose of the story I should point out that, out of the eight of us, seven have PhDs. At one point someone said: "You know, anywhere else this would be called a brain-trust." We laughed and got back to the beer drinking, the smack talking, game watching etc. More anecdata that the jock/nerd distinction is total bullshit.
posted by ob at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2010
To be fair, once you start self-selecting out sports-oriented interactions, you've maybe never experienced adult appreciation of sports. If you sit down with ob's group, from the sound of things, or mine (in which case you'd be watching hockey), the tolerance for not knowing players and stats will be high, the aggression (directed at anything other than the tv screen) will be low, and the times will be good.
If you're still holding on to high school memories of sports fandom, you may have to experience it to believe it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you're still holding on to high school memories of sports fandom, you may have to experience it to believe it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:22 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Neither my husband nor I watches the sports, really. We'll occasionally go to a Super Bowl party at my in-laws', but that's about the family thing, not the game. The only things we get into are the Olympics and the World Cup. Well, OK, and the Tour de France, a little, but that's mainly my husband, and mostly only since he started being a 125 mile per week commuting cyclist. We are both giant -- I mean positively enormous, titanic, Brobdingnagian -- nerds.
I loathe team fandom. The hooligans, the riots, the dick-knuckles yelling at each other for wearing the wrong hats, it all makes me shudder. I grew up in Texas, where gridiron football is the dominant religion, and it really soured me on the whole idea. Even in the two events I follow, I don't root for any particular team or country as much as I watch to see the sport or event executed at the highest possible level. I'm nearly as interested in the Cup now as I was when my home country (US) was still involved; I'm actually sorrier that Ghana got knocked out than the US. I'm REALLY interested in the final, if for no other reason than both the Netherlands and Spain have been playing some truly top-flight football and this should be fun to watch.
So, if you hate the sports, that's great. Not everyone likes everything; not everyone has to like everything, or even not loathe everything. But consider that maybe not everyone who doesn't hate the sports is a dick-knuckle. Maybe they feel a sense of cultural pride from being in a room where everyone is rooting for the same thing; maybe they have a personal or family history of rooting for a team that makes it important to them; maybe they really, truly, above all, love the SPORT. But writing people off just because of one of their interests is bigoted and small-minded no matter how you slice it.
posted by KathrynT at 11:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I loathe team fandom. The hooligans, the riots, the dick-knuckles yelling at each other for wearing the wrong hats, it all makes me shudder. I grew up in Texas, where gridiron football is the dominant religion, and it really soured me on the whole idea. Even in the two events I follow, I don't root for any particular team or country as much as I watch to see the sport or event executed at the highest possible level. I'm nearly as interested in the Cup now as I was when my home country (US) was still involved; I'm actually sorrier that Ghana got knocked out than the US. I'm REALLY interested in the final, if for no other reason than both the Netherlands and Spain have been playing some truly top-flight football and this should be fun to watch.
So, if you hate the sports, that's great. Not everyone likes everything; not everyone has to like everything, or even not loathe everything. But consider that maybe not everyone who doesn't hate the sports is a dick-knuckle. Maybe they feel a sense of cultural pride from being in a room where everyone is rooting for the same thing; maybe they have a personal or family history of rooting for a team that makes it important to them; maybe they really, truly, above all, love the SPORT. But writing people off just because of one of their interests is bigoted and small-minded no matter how you slice it.
posted by KathrynT at 11:36 AM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, when I say "adult" appreciation of sports, I'm excluding the dick-knuckles, of any age.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:38 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:38 AM on July 9, 2010
I was just making a Big Lebowski reference. :(
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:42 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:42 AM on July 9, 2010
The problem I have with professional sports is the money paid out of public funds for the benefit of the few.
Too many sports teams get $200 million + sports stadiums paid for out of tax revenue. Too many sports owners get too much money in tax write-offs and avoidance.
The Green Bay Packers were above given as an example of a team doesn't hurt its city. This is possibly due to the Packers being the only publicly owned sports team out there.
If more teams were owned collectively and teams and leagues weren't able to pressure cities into building them stadiums and not charging rent I wouldn't have a problem with professional sports.
As a columnist in Chicago says today, Want Economic Stimulus? Don't Build a Sports Stadium!
posted by GregorWill at 11:43 AM on July 9, 2010
Too many sports teams get $200 million + sports stadiums paid for out of tax revenue. Too many sports owners get too much money in tax write-offs and avoidance.
The Green Bay Packers were above given as an example of a team doesn't hurt its city. This is possibly due to the Packers being the only publicly owned sports team out there.
If more teams were owned collectively and teams and leagues weren't able to pressure cities into building them stadiums and not charging rent I wouldn't have a problem with professional sports.
As a columnist in Chicago says today, Want Economic Stimulus? Don't Build a Sports Stadium!
posted by GregorWill at 11:43 AM on July 9, 2010
The problem is that no one is getting behind my movement to restructure professional team sports (mostly basketball, but maybe other sports too). I want to get rid of location-specific teams, long-term contracts and unnecessarily long regular seasons. Instead, team sports would be organized more like professional golf or tennis--independent tournaments conducted under the auspicious of a common governing body.
posted by mullacc at 11:49 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by mullacc at 11:49 AM on July 9, 2010
I think it's a hogshead of dick-knuckles, actually.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:50 AM on July 9, 2010
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:50 AM on July 9, 2010
The problem I have with professional sports is the money paid out of public funds for the benefit of the few.
A lot of money paid out of public funds is for the benefit of the few. Are you similarly opposed to public funding of art galleries, museums, opera houses, and symphony orchestras which are for the benefit of even fewer people?
posted by rocket88 at 12:03 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
A lot of money paid out of public funds is for the benefit of the few. Are you similarly opposed to public funding of art galleries, museums, opera houses, and symphony orchestras which are for the benefit of even fewer people?
posted by rocket88 at 12:03 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I used to think I was a baseball fan, but really what I liked was math. AND STIRRUPS
posted by jtron at 12:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jtron at 12:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
The problem I have with professional sports is the money paid out of public funds for the benefit of the few.
No you don't. That's an excuse to dislike sports, but it's not as though you'd immediately become a fan if it went away. Are you suggesting you're a amateur athletic supporter? There's nothing wrong with not liking or even disliking sports, but as rocket88 suggests, it's not a unique situation. And as a sports fan with a degree in Econ, I can't stand public money for something team owners can easily get loans for. I assume you're a fan of the Patriots given Robert Kraft paid for the new stadium on his own?
posted by yerfatma at 12:09 PM on July 9, 2010
No you don't. That's an excuse to dislike sports, but it's not as though you'd immediately become a fan if it went away. Are you suggesting you're a amateur athletic supporter? There's nothing wrong with not liking or even disliking sports, but as rocket88 suggests, it's not a unique situation. And as a sports fan with a degree in Econ, I can't stand public money for something team owners can easily get loans for. I assume you're a fan of the Patriots given Robert Kraft paid for the new stadium on his own?
posted by yerfatma at 12:09 PM on July 9, 2010
rocket88: "A lot of money paid out of public funds is for the benefit of the few. Are you similarly opposed to public funding of art galleries, museums, opera houses, and symphony orchestras which are for the benefit of even fewer people?"
The difference is that your examples are more like the Green Bay Packers, who are actually owned by the community - oddly enough, the Packers are a "public good". When mullacc said, "the few" he meant the team owners who reap the profits while getting all sorts of tax breaks and incentives.
posted by charred husk at 12:14 PM on July 9, 2010
The difference is that your examples are more like the Green Bay Packers, who are actually owned by the community - oddly enough, the Packers are a "public good". When mullacc said, "the few" he meant the team owners who reap the profits while getting all sorts of tax breaks and incentives.
posted by charred husk at 12:14 PM on July 9, 2010
Er, I mean GregorWill, not mullacc.
posted by charred husk at 12:15 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by charred husk at 12:15 PM on July 9, 2010
I like playing (some) sports, and can't even feign interest in watching sports I really enjoy playing. Example: I ride a lot, quite a lot, but have zero interest in the Tour.
I don't think this makes me better, I think it cuts me out of a lot of potentially network-y conversations.
* Gallic shrug *
posted by everichon at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2010
I don't think this makes me better, I think it cuts me out of a lot of potentially network-y conversations.
* Gallic shrug *
posted by everichon at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2010
I haven't heard the term meathead this much since Archie Bunker.
posted by Back to you, Jim. at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Back to you, Jim. at 12:20 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Personally, I didn't mind Bitter.Girl's comments because the FPP was sort of wide open, and also touched on the idea of how LBJ's departure effects Cleveland as a whole. She said "it doesn't - sports don't effect a city" (to paraphrase). She also said why she doesn't like sports, which also sort of fits the thread.
There were other comments where people came in and just attacked professional sports in general. That has less to do with the thread, and more to do with a dislike of sports.
Bitter.Girl's comments ads something to the discussion, the others are drive-by carping.
posted by codacorolla at 12:25 PM on July 9, 2010
There were other comments where people came in and just attacked professional sports in general. That has less to do with the thread, and more to do with a dislike of sports.
Bitter.Girl's comments ads something to the discussion, the others are drive-by carping.
posted by codacorolla at 12:25 PM on July 9, 2010
I love baseball and basketball and football, at almost any level. How much? I have cried with joy when talking to fellow Red Sox fans about what it felt like to finally, finally win the World Series. I grit my teeth a lot this year watching my Mariners blow game after game. I am also a nerd who was picked last for games in elementary school and was famous for reading while walking home from said school. I'm reasonably fit and energetic these days but still don't go out for team sports as a participant, because I'm just not good enough to play in a game that matters to my compatriots.
I understand why a lot of people hate sports and the time and energy devoted to them. I agree that in the U.S. at least, professional sports is associated with group bullying, misogyny, domestic violence, substance abuse, cheating, etc. (And though LB James is one of the all time greats in terms of ability, I have to say that I was hoping he would come through for his home town, rather than pursue his own understandable interest in playing with his friends and trying to win a championship.)
But is there really a field of human endeavor that is free from rotten behavior? I love film and literature too -- like a lot of MeFis -- but I can't say that all the people involved in the film industry are a whole lot better behaved than those in the sports world, or for that matter that a lot of people in the book world are model human being.
This all reminds me a little of dealing with my husband on the subject of religion. Due to his fundamentalist upbringing, he despises all religions. I tend to think that the subject is more nuanced, i.e. that although a lot of critical things can be said about organized religion, that's not the whole story. I am sometimes really awed by the transcendent good that people do because of their religion and their beliefs.
So, hope the sports-despising MeFis can work on their tolerance of those of us who love the deep strategy of baseball, the incredible movement and grace of basketball, the complexity and legalism of football, and the sense of community and emotion that being a sports fan can bring.
posted by bearwife at 12:31 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
I understand why a lot of people hate sports and the time and energy devoted to them. I agree that in the U.S. at least, professional sports is associated with group bullying, misogyny, domestic violence, substance abuse, cheating, etc. (And though LB James is one of the all time greats in terms of ability, I have to say that I was hoping he would come through for his home town, rather than pursue his own understandable interest in playing with his friends and trying to win a championship.)
But is there really a field of human endeavor that is free from rotten behavior? I love film and literature too -- like a lot of MeFis -- but I can't say that all the people involved in the film industry are a whole lot better behaved than those in the sports world, or for that matter that a lot of people in the book world are model human being.
This all reminds me a little of dealing with my husband on the subject of religion. Due to his fundamentalist upbringing, he despises all religions. I tend to think that the subject is more nuanced, i.e. that although a lot of critical things can be said about organized religion, that's not the whole story. I am sometimes really awed by the transcendent good that people do because of their religion and their beliefs.
So, hope the sports-despising MeFis can work on their tolerance of those of us who love the deep strategy of baseball, the incredible movement and grace of basketball, the complexity and legalism of football, and the sense of community and emotion that being a sports fan can bring.
posted by bearwife at 12:31 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
It's an odd boy who doesn't like sport.
posted by klangklangston at 12:35 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 12:35 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
It's all those plastic cups of beer.
posted by pracowity at 12:56 PM on July 9, 2010
It's all those plastic cups of beer.
posted by pracowity at 12:56 PM on July 9, 2010
I am also a nerd who was picked last for games in elementary school
Oh man, thank God for Albino Larry.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:02 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh man, thank God for Albino Larry.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:02 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's all those plastic cups of beer.
Why is everybody mad about the cups?
posted by mullacc at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why is everybody mad about the cups?
posted by mullacc at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Remember, even if you hate sports, it may make sense to fake an interest in them. I am bored by sports (and so never comment in any sports-related threads here), but when I worked at the talent agency, everyone was discussing sports. A talent agency is the quintessential networking business, so you must, must, must do everything you can to find common ground with others in the industry. And sports - unlike religion - is a safe bonding ground.
So, I'd fake enthusiasm about some team or another, even though in truth, I wasn't sure if the team was a baseball or football or basketball team. I'd enthusiastically agree with whatever seemed to be the prevailing position, etc.. And you know what? In time, you'd discover that a remarkable number of people are doing the exact same thing. One day we were hanging around the conference room after some meeting, and the convo devolved into the usual sports-shit. I suddenly realized that of the five people there, not one seemed sincere, and all were looking to see which remark to repeat and enthusiastically agree with, except, nobody seemed like they really knew shit-all about the topic. So I said: "c'mon, we all hate sports, what's for lunch" - massive laughter, and no dissent. That's how I discovered a secret underground of fellow sports-haters at my agency. After that, whenever there was a big group getting orgasms over grown men chasing some kind of ball or semi-ball, I knew, that there was a secret agent or two on my team here.
I imagine it's the same in many businesses. You conform in order to reap the advantages. It's painful and dangerous to come out of the closet, and it can cost you dearly.
To all of you fellow sports-haters on metafilter - think before you speak or write. One day you may be denied a job or promotion, or not get a security clearance, or hunted down, and you won't even know why.
Today for lunch, I was thinking hamburger. Mmm, veggieburger!
posted by VikingSword at 1:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
So, I'd fake enthusiasm about some team or another, even though in truth, I wasn't sure if the team was a baseball or football or basketball team. I'd enthusiastically agree with whatever seemed to be the prevailing position, etc.. And you know what? In time, you'd discover that a remarkable number of people are doing the exact same thing. One day we were hanging around the conference room after some meeting, and the convo devolved into the usual sports-shit. I suddenly realized that of the five people there, not one seemed sincere, and all were looking to see which remark to repeat and enthusiastically agree with, except, nobody seemed like they really knew shit-all about the topic. So I said: "c'mon, we all hate sports, what's for lunch" - massive laughter, and no dissent. That's how I discovered a secret underground of fellow sports-haters at my agency. After that, whenever there was a big group getting orgasms over grown men chasing some kind of ball or semi-ball, I knew, that there was a secret agent or two on my team here.
I imagine it's the same in many businesses. You conform in order to reap the advantages. It's painful and dangerous to come out of the closet, and it can cost you dearly.
To all of you fellow sports-haters on metafilter - think before you speak or write. One day you may be denied a job or promotion, or not get a security clearance, or hunted down, and you won't even know why.
Today for lunch, I was thinking hamburger. Mmm, veggieburger!
posted by VikingSword at 1:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Remember, even if you hate sports, it may make sense to fake an interest in them.
You know what's always hilarious? Pretending to be ignorant about sports. A friend of mine is a big fan of the Vikings and their running back, Adrian Peterson. So on Mondays after a game, I ask him something like "So, did Mr. Peterman win the touchdowns this weekend?" Then the next week I'll ask, "I heard Adam Patterson hit a grand slammer in this week's match. I bet that made your day!"
Everyone loves it and thinks I'm the funniest.
posted by mullacc at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
You know what's always hilarious? Pretending to be ignorant about sports. A friend of mine is a big fan of the Vikings and their running back, Adrian Peterson. So on Mondays after a game, I ask him something like "So, did Mr. Peterman win the touchdowns this weekend?" Then the next week I'll ask, "I heard Adam Patterson hit a grand slammer in this week's match. I bet that made your day!"
Everyone loves it and thinks I'm the funniest.
posted by mullacc at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
"I'm irreligious AND a sports fan. Which proves... ?"
Something else, obviously.
posted by Eideteker at 1:24 PM on July 9, 2010
Something else, obviously.
posted by Eideteker at 1:24 PM on July 9, 2010
Remember, even if you hate sports, it may make sense to fake an interest in them.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
I'm irreligious AND a sports fan. Which proves... ?
the rule?
less than satisfying after a successful Hail Mary pass?
posted by pracowity at 2:10 PM on July 9, 2010
the rule?
less than satisfying after a successful Hail Mary pass?
posted by pracowity at 2:10 PM on July 9, 2010
Am I the only one who finds baseball more interesting on the radio than on television?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:33 PM on July 9, 2010
I like that people that hate talking about sport like talking about talking about sport.
SYSTEM ERROR
posted by reductiondesign at 2:34 PM on July 9, 2010
SYSTEM ERROR
posted by reductiondesign at 2:34 PM on July 9, 2010
Am I the only one who finds baseball more interesting on the radio than on television?
No, that's pretty common actually. Personally, I can only stand to read about baseball.
posted by mullacc at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
No, that's pretty common actually. Personally, I can only stand to read about baseball.
posted by mullacc at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth.
So who are we putting forward? Artists? Like Nazi sympathiser Ezra Pound, mysogynist Picasso, drug rapist Roman Polanski? Hey, throw Marion Zimmer Bradley and her years of enabling and excusing a child-molesting husband in there, too. Religious leaders? Yeah, right. Political leaders? Martin Luther King achieved many great things, but his he your model for how men should treat women?
The problem I have with professional sports is the money paid out of public funds for the benefit of the few.
I'm not a big fan of Stadium Scams, but I could say the same about public funding of opera, or Mapplethorpe, or, for that matter, quadruple bypass operations for the elderly.
posted by rodgerd at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
So who are we putting forward? Artists? Like Nazi sympathiser Ezra Pound, mysogynist Picasso, drug rapist Roman Polanski? Hey, throw Marion Zimmer Bradley and her years of enabling and excusing a child-molesting husband in there, too. Religious leaders? Yeah, right. Political leaders? Martin Luther King achieved many great things, but his he your model for how men should treat women?
The problem I have with professional sports is the money paid out of public funds for the benefit of the few.
I'm not a big fan of Stadium Scams, but I could say the same about public funding of opera, or Mapplethorpe, or, for that matter, quadruple bypass operations for the elderly.
posted by rodgerd at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
No, that's pretty common actually.
Can I meet these people? Most baseball fans I know drone on and on about the experience of the ballpark, and how "being there" doesn't hold a candle to listening to a radio play-by-play. No baseball in Iceland, though, so it's the radio for me anyways.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2010
Can I meet these people? Most baseball fans I know drone on and on about the experience of the ballpark, and how "being there" doesn't hold a candle to listening to a radio play-by-play. No baseball in Iceland, though, so it's the radio for me anyways.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2010
Martin Luther King achieved many great things, but his he your model for how men should treat women?
Nice dog-whistle. fwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by fleacircus at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2010
Nice dog-whistle. fwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by fleacircus at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2010
So who are we putting forward? Artists? Like Nazi sympathiser Ezra Pound, mysogynist [sic] Picasso, drug rapist Roman Polanski? Hey, throw Marion Zimmer Bradley and her years of enabling and excusing a child-molesting husband in there, too. [...]
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
I'm not a big fan of [...] quadruple bypass operations for the elderly.
I'd hate to see any child emulate this, though.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2010
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
I'm not a big fan of [...] quadruple bypass operations for the elderly.
I'd hate to see any child emulate this, though.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2010
So who are we putting forward?
Other kids. Seriously, there is nothing more cool to my daughter than other kids around her age that have done something worthwhile in her eyes.
posted by Sailormom at 3:10 PM on July 9, 2010
Other kids. Seriously, there is nothing more cool to my daughter than other kids around her age that have done something worthwhile in her eyes.
posted by Sailormom at 3:10 PM on July 9, 2010
Earlier in the thread, Jessamyn commented:
It struck me that, if I were curious about the comment in question, what I would want to know about it is whether it was original, relevant, interesting, insightful, inspiring, etc. I'm not really that interested in whether it was annoying to some people or provocative to some people. But it is interesting to know what qualities the moderators think are most important, which is relevant to understanding what kind of forum MetaFilter is.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:21 PM on July 9, 2010
We had a Usual Suspect who was acting up in a thread on a Predictable Topic the other day [not quite deleteworthy but definitely an annoying and provocative comment by someone known for them] and cortex and I both remarked how psyched we were that literally no one responded to it.First, let me say that I don't know whether she's referring to me or not.
It struck me that, if I were curious about the comment in question, what I would want to know about it is whether it was original, relevant, interesting, insightful, inspiring, etc. I'm not really that interested in whether it was annoying to some people or provocative to some people. But it is interesting to know what qualities the moderators think are most important, which is relevant to understanding what kind of forum MetaFilter is.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:21 PM on July 9, 2010
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
How? The average athlete is an average person. How are you suggesting the names listed above are better options? The fact you assume the average athlete is a "moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball" says it all. How can you tar a huge group of people with the "I don't want to know them" brush?
posted by yerfatma at 3:29 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
How? The average athlete is an average person. How are you suggesting the names listed above are better options? The fact you assume the average athlete is a "moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball" says it all. How can you tar a huge group of people with the "I don't want to know them" brush?
posted by yerfatma at 3:29 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Marisa Stole the Precious Thing Am I the only one who finds baseball more interesting on the radio than on television?
I always thought it was general consensus that the ideal is listening to the radio play-by-play, synced if possible to a silent high-definition TV broadcast.
It's not uncommon for baseball fans to bring a radio with them to the ballpark if they're watching the game in person. I do it myself. It's a pretty big enhancement to the ballpark experience, which can otherwise be confusing or deadly dull, especially if you're in one of the cheaper distant seats.
posted by hat at 3:29 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I always thought it was general consensus that the ideal is listening to the radio play-by-play, synced if possible to a silent high-definition TV broadcast.
It's not uncommon for baseball fans to bring a radio with them to the ballpark if they're watching the game in person. I do it myself. It's a pretty big enhancement to the ballpark experience, which can otherwise be confusing or deadly dull, especially if you're in one of the cheaper distant seats.
posted by hat at 3:29 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I always thought it was general consensus that the ideal is listening to the radio play-by-play, synced if possible to a silent high-definition TV broadcast.
It's not uncommon for baseball fans to bring a radio with them to the ballpark if they're watching the game in person. I do it myself. It's a pretty big enhancement to the ballpark experience, which can otherwise be confusing or deadly dull, especially if you're in one of the cheaper distant seats.
Wow. My eyes have been opened, once again, thanks to Metafilter.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:33 PM on July 9, 2010
It's not uncommon for baseball fans to bring a radio with them to the ballpark if they're watching the game in person. I do it myself. It's a pretty big enhancement to the ballpark experience, which can otherwise be confusing or deadly dull, especially if you're in one of the cheaper distant seats.
Wow. My eyes have been opened, once again, thanks to Metafilter.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:33 PM on July 9, 2010
"Jocks!"
"Nerds!"
"Jocks!"
"Nerds!"
How about GROW THE FUCK UP?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:35 PM on July 9, 2010
"Nerds!"
"Jocks!"
"Nerds!"
How about GROW THE FUCK UP?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:35 PM on July 9, 2010
First, let me say that I don't know whether she's referring to me or not.
Nope.
It struck me that, if I were curious about the comment in question, what I would want to know about it is whether it was original, relevant, interesting, insightful, inspiring, etc.
None of the above. It was random argumentative chaff. That it was completely ignored in the conversation was, as Jess said, sort of a nice and notable outcome.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:40 PM on July 9, 2010
Nope.
It struck me that, if I were curious about the comment in question, what I would want to know about it is whether it was original, relevant, interesting, insightful, inspiring, etc.
None of the above. It was random argumentative chaff. That it was completely ignored in the conversation was, as Jess said, sort of a nice and notable outcome.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:40 PM on July 9, 2010
For what it's worth, I don't mind the intrusion of thoughtful discussion about whether or not municipalities should be slavering over sports franchises, but I found bitter-girl.com's sneering characterization of fans as "suburban assholes" who all reside in McMansions and eat at Applebee's to be pretty damned distasteful. It's northeastern Ohio. A lot of the people visiting Cleveland for a game are driving in from places that are economically as troubled as Cleveland is. Her point could have been made without the bile.
posted by hat at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by hat at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
And William Shakespeare was just some moron whose only claim to fame was writing words down on a page.
posted by The Gooch at 3:55 PM on July 9, 2010
And William Shakespeare was just some moron whose only claim to fame was writing words down on a page.
posted by The Gooch at 3:55 PM on July 9, 2010
My eyes have been opened, once again, thanks to Metafilter.
I'll try not to point out that you missed the chance to watch the Celtics of the '80s on CBS while listening to Johnny Most on the radio, back when the broadcasts were pretty much synced by default. Heaven. Even if the radio died somehow, Tommy Heinson was actually employed by CBS back then. Until they sacked him for being more of a homer than I was at 8 years old.
posted by yerfatma at 4:16 PM on July 9, 2010
I'll try not to point out that you missed the chance to watch the Celtics of the '80s on CBS while listening to Johnny Most on the radio, back when the broadcasts were pretty much synced by default. Heaven. Even if the radio died somehow, Tommy Heinson was actually employed by CBS back then. Until they sacked him for being more of a homer than I was at 8 years old.
posted by yerfatma at 4:16 PM on July 9, 2010
And William Shakespeare was just some moron whose only claim to fame was writing words down on a page.
posted by The Gooch at 6:55 PM on July 9
ROFL. I rest my case.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 4:19 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by The Gooch at 6:55 PM on July 9
ROFL. I rest my case.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 4:19 PM on July 9, 2010
I wish we could drop the whole meme about "if you don't like something, why would you get into a conversation about it? are you trolling?" because it's basically just some whiny bullshit. I think I'd be bummed if I posted something to the front page that I liked and figured everyone would think was cool and they all immediately started talking up its suckitude, but the whole point of having a comments section is conversation, and when conversation only goes the way you'd like it to, that's...well, it's nice, but it's hardly the inevitable path of a conversation. Sometimes people think your favorite band sucks. If the site were called EchoChamberFilter, I would understand the objection to dissenting opinions. But it's not, and plenty of FPPs (say, everything, ever, about Palin) are obviously posted in hopes of getting a negative reaction, and few people ever complain when one is elicited, so the idea that this is some kind of site where we only ever say nice things strikes me as either ill-considered or disingenuous on that front, too.
That said, it's kind of not great when things get personal, and when people (pro or con) just start saying the same damn thing over and over again (I...may have been guilty of this from time to time), that's just bad conversation. I agree stuff like that should be nuked from space. I'm just not okay with you disagree with me = threadshitting, and that equation seems to be cropping up with some frequency of late.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:25 PM on July 9, 2010
That said, it's kind of not great when things get personal, and when people (pro or con) just start saying the same damn thing over and over again (I...may have been guilty of this from time to time), that's just bad conversation. I agree stuff like that should be nuked from space. I'm just not okay with you disagree with me = threadshitting, and that equation seems to be cropping up with some frequency of late.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:25 PM on July 9, 2010
I think I'd be bummed if I posted something to the front page that I liked and figured everyone would think was cool and they all immediately started talking up its suckitude, but the whole point of having a comments section is conversation, and when conversation only goes the way you'd like it to, that's...well, it's nice, but it's hardly the inevitable path of a conversation. Sometimes people think your favorite band sucks. If the site were called EchoChamberFilter, I would understand the objection to dissenting opinions. But it's not, and plenty of FPPs (say, everything, ever, about Palin) are obviously posted in hopes of getting a negative reaction, and few people ever complain when one is elicited, so the idea that this is some kind of site where we only ever say nice things strikes me as either ill-considered or disingenuous on that front, too.
Yes, but all those people - whether they like or dislike Palin - have an interest in politics, the subject. But someone coming into a thread to say, "All politicians suck, I hate politics" is not really contributing anything worthwhile. As in a sport thread: an FPP about the World Cup or the Celtics is not going to have everyone coming in talking about how much they love the World Cup or the Celtics, but someone coming in to say, "Sports suck, you're all corporate shills" is likewise not contributing anything worthwhile.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:40 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Yes, but all those people - whether they like or dislike Palin - have an interest in politics, the subject. But someone coming into a thread to say, "All politicians suck, I hate politics" is not really contributing anything worthwhile. As in a sport thread: an FPP about the World Cup or the Celtics is not going to have everyone coming in talking about how much they love the World Cup or the Celtics, but someone coming in to say, "Sports suck, you're all corporate shills" is likewise not contributing anything worthwhile.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:40 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
nomisxid: "How many bowls of dick are in a bucket of cocks?
$20 worth, SAIT"
*Rim shot* (no pun intended)
posted by bwg at 4:42 PM on July 9, 2010
$20 worth, SAIT"
*Rim shot* (no pun intended)
posted by bwg at 4:42 PM on July 9, 2010
I think I'd be bummed if I posted something to the front page that I liked and figured everyone would think was cool and they all immediately started talking up its suckitude, but the whole point of having a comments section is conversation, and when conversation only goes the way you'd like it to, that's...well, it's nice, but it's hardly the inevitable path of a conversation.
While I agree that MetaFilter is at its best in this conversational mode, it's not entirely analogous to, say, a conversation at a party. I haven't been to a party where groups standing around the living room have clear signposts over their heads, detailing the specific conversations they're having. Because MeFi conversations do have these clear markers, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people entering into them do so with the intent of discussing the topic in good faith with other people who want to discuss that topic. Varying opinions aren't the problem, it's people coming in and saying this whole conversation is stupid and you suck for having it. That's not just saying "I don't like this thing and here's why", it's saying, "All you people who are in here talking about this are idiots", and that's not conducive to any kind of real conversation.
posted by Errant at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
While I agree that MetaFilter is at its best in this conversational mode, it's not entirely analogous to, say, a conversation at a party. I haven't been to a party where groups standing around the living room have clear signposts over their heads, detailing the specific conversations they're having. Because MeFi conversations do have these clear markers, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people entering into them do so with the intent of discussing the topic in good faith with other people who want to discuss that topic. Varying opinions aren't the problem, it's people coming in and saying this whole conversation is stupid and you suck for having it. That's not just saying "I don't like this thing and here's why", it's saying, "All you people who are in here talking about this are idiots", and that's not conducive to any kind of real conversation.
posted by Errant at 4:49 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Pro athletes are, with few exceptions, horrible role models for our youth.
Next on Metafilter: Obesity thread.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:52 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
> Nope.
Oh man, way to shoot a guy down. Couldn't you have at least given him a little hope? Like, say, "Mayyyyyy-be.... and maybe not!"
posted by languagehat at 5:00 PM on July 9, 2010
Oh man, way to shoot a guy down. Couldn't you have at least given him a little hope? Like, say, "Mayyyyyy-be.... and maybe not!"
posted by languagehat at 5:00 PM on July 9, 2010
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
People like to piss on stuff for various reasons, frequently I think out of ignorance and hatred of The Other. As has been pointed out above, the culture at MetaFilter is generally anti-sports, especially "American" team sports. So, people get away with pissing on sports more often than pissing on, for example, vegetarians, or peace activists.
However, I'm still hurting from the mocking my household bobblehead collection received from cortex and his brother when they stayed here, so perhaps I'm biased. Go Nationals!
posted by exogenous at 5:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
People like to piss on stuff for various reasons, frequently I think out of ignorance and hatred of The Other. As has been pointed out above, the culture at MetaFilter is generally anti-sports, especially "American" team sports. So, people get away with pissing on sports more often than pissing on, for example, vegetarians, or peace activists.
However, I'm still hurting from the mocking my household bobblehead collection received from cortex and his brother when they stayed here, so perhaps I'm biased. Go Nationals!
posted by exogenous at 5:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Red Sox are currently kicking Toronto's ass 10 - 0 in the 4th.
posted by cucumber at 5:20 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by cucumber at 5:20 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know this lady that has logged thousands of miles to watch the Canadian Jr. hockey team. She also fishes and will reel in and dispatch a pickerel if they are fool enough to bite. When she isn't doing that she is a devotedly overworked and woefully underpaid civil rights attorney in Winnipeg and has a masters in US constitutional law too.
Any sensible observer would say she is well-rounded. As her husband I can confirm that.
posted by vapidave at 5:48 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Any sensible observer would say she is well-rounded. As her husband I can confirm that.
posted by vapidave at 5:48 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
The Red Sox are currently kicking Toronto's ass 10 - 0 in the 4th.
The score is currently 12 - 0.
The Blue Jays are better at t-ball, honest.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:57 PM on July 9, 2010
The score is currently 12 - 0.
The Blue Jays are better at t-ball, honest.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:57 PM on July 9, 2010
YOU LIKE SPORTY SPORTS LIKE IT IS YOUR PROFESSION
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wish we could drop the whole meme about "if you don't like something, why would you get into a conversation about it? are you trolling?" because it's basically just some whiny bullshit.
If you drop into a thread about a subject you have no interest in purely to tell people you have no interest in it and anyone who does is an idiot, then that's trolling.
posted by rtha at 6:41 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you drop into a thread about a subject you have no interest in purely to tell people you have no interest in it and anyone who does is an idiot, then that's trolling.
posted by rtha at 6:41 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also? How the hell is it that the Giants swept the Brewers and now they're losing to that Nats? WTF, Giants??!
posted by rtha at 6:44 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by rtha at 6:44 PM on July 9, 2010
Tonight the Nats had Strasburg pitcing and our guys actually managed to bang out some hits for a change. Also the Giants were probably taken aback at the infernal heat and humidity here.
posted by exogenous at 7:17 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by exogenous at 7:17 PM on July 9, 2010
You know, Shakespeare didn't give a shit about you any more than Michael Jordan did. He wrote gory thrillers to lure the lowbrows into the stalls not in order to create literature, but to make a buck. And Shakespeare was quite possibly as big an asshole as Kobe. Not too many details about him, but his contemporary bud, Marlowe, almost certainly was. What Shakespeare was to words, Jordan was to HIS selected medium. I can't dunk like Jordan, nor can I hew to iambic pentameter as I describe how they hew the limbs off of Tamora's sons like Shakespeare. But I don't think either of them are morons for not being able to do the other. Seems to me valuing only the things you like leads to mental inbreeding.
posted by umberto at 7:33 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by umberto at 7:33 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why must some people constantly piss in Sports threads?
EVERY thread has people that "constantly piss" in them.
There are some people who always piss in music threads.
There are some people who always piss in religion threads.
There are some people who always piss in political threads.
There are some people who always piss in theater threads.
There are some people who always piss in art threads.
There are some people who always piss in small town threads.
There are some people who always piss in cat threads.
There are some people who always piss in food threads.
It's not a sportsfans-vs.-nonsportsfans issue. It's a jerks-vs.-nonjerks issue.
So the reason why some people constantly piss in Sports threads is because some people are just jerks, and sports is just the thing that those particular people are jerks about.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:46 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
EVERY thread has people that "constantly piss" in them.
There are some people who always piss in music threads.
There are some people who always piss in religion threads.
There are some people who always piss in political threads.
There are some people who always piss in theater threads.
There are some people who always piss in art threads.
There are some people who always piss in small town threads.
There are some people who always piss in cat threads.
There are some people who always piss in food threads.
It's not a sportsfans-vs.-nonsportsfans issue. It's a jerks-vs.-nonjerks issue.
So the reason why some people constantly piss in Sports threads is because some people are just jerks, and sports is just the thing that those particular people are jerks about.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:46 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can I piss in urinal threads?
What about toilet threads if I put the seat up before and down after?
The above has been brought to you by awake for 21 hours.
posted by vapidave at 1:07 AM on July 10, 2010
What about toilet threads if I put the seat up before and down after?
The above has been brought to you by awake for 21 hours.
posted by vapidave at 1:07 AM on July 10, 2010
So who are we putting forward? Artists? Like Nazi sympathiser Ezra Pound, mysogynist [sic] Picasso, drug rapist Roman Polanski? Hey, throw Marion Zimmer Bradley and her years of enabling and excusing a child-molesting husband in there, too. [...]
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
I hope that's some sort of basic inability with the English language at work there, champ, rather than an endorsement of the idea it's be great for kids to grow up aiming to be rapists.
posted by rodgerd at 2:51 AM on July 10, 2010
These are better role models than some moron whose only claim to fame is running around and throwing a ball.
I hope that's some sort of basic inability with the English language at work there, champ, rather than an endorsement of the idea it's be great for kids to grow up aiming to be rapists.
posted by rodgerd at 2:51 AM on July 10, 2010
Also? How the hell is it that the Giants swept the Brewers and now they're losing to that Nats? WTF, Giants??!
Also, in addition to what exogenous said, these aren't the same Nats from the past couple years. They are, at times, pretty freaking good.
posted by inigo2 at 6:44 AM on July 10, 2010
Also, in addition to what exogenous said, these aren't the same Nats from the past couple years. They are, at times, pretty freaking good.
posted by inigo2 at 6:44 AM on July 10, 2010
I wish we could drop the whole meme about "if you don't like something, why would you get into a conversation about it? are you trolling?" because it's basically just some whiny bullshit.
I wish people would stop using the word 'meme' when they don't know what it means. It is not the same as an online 'habit', 'regular occurrence', or 'practice'. It is a unit of cultural transmission that evolves in response to external pressures.
My apologies for the pedantry; we now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.
posted by modernnomad at 7:25 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wish people would stop using the word 'meme' when they don't know what it means. It is not the same as an online 'habit', 'regular occurrence', or 'practice'. It is a unit of cultural transmission that evolves in response to external pressures.
My apologies for the pedantry; we now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.
posted by modernnomad at 7:25 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you drop into a thread about a subject you have no interest in purely to tell people you have no interest in it and anyone who does is an idiot, then that's trolling.
I think that a strong dislike for something constitutes interest, at least for discussion purposes. I mean, "lol wtf this is dumb" isn't much a contribution, but there are plenty of subjects that are classically hot button issues on MeFi that, when FPPed, seem to stand for no better reason than it allows people to get in their two-minute hate. I'm not sure that people dropping into a thread on a subject that they absolutely have no interest in at all just to call everyone in the thread an idiot (like, I don't know, a thread about the virtues of mulching [I'm sure someone is very interested in mulching, but it's off the top of my head a subject that very few people would have strong feelings about, and even fewer people would be even remotely interested in those opinions]) is something that has ever happened here. That, to me, would be trolling, but I have never seen it.
More nuanced, though, and maybe more to the point: If you post "lol wtf is mulching," you have said nothing that really insults anyone (and you also haven't said anything very useful, but never mind; saying something vapid isn't trolling, it's just a waste of space), and if you say "lol mulchers are dumb" you are probably trolling, but what if you say, "I hate mulchers and their stupid mulch machines that they run at the crack of dawn on the weekends when I'm trying to sleep in and the stench of their stupid mulch and say it a bunch of times 'mulch mulch mulch mulch' it just sounds stupid"? That's not a flattering take on mulching, it may be a take on mulching that you as a mulcher find thoroughly objectionable, and it doesn't take into account the aesthetic benefits to one's lawn of mulching, or the hard work that goes into a good mulch, or how your dad sat you on his knee and taught you the secrets of mulch as a wee nipper and you're tearing up just thinking about it, or what have you, but it's not someone trolling mulchers. It's just someone saying -- admittedly, in a rude way -- something about mulchers that you don't like. You can rebut them, you can ignore them, you can tell them to mulch a bag of dicks if that's the way you choose to live your life, but it's not really fair to accuse them of posting in bad faith, because they are not. Although trolls are obviously assholes, not all assholes are actually trolls. That's all I'm saying here.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:33 AM on July 10, 2010
I think that a strong dislike for something constitutes interest, at least for discussion purposes. I mean, "lol wtf this is dumb" isn't much a contribution, but there are plenty of subjects that are classically hot button issues on MeFi that, when FPPed, seem to stand for no better reason than it allows people to get in their two-minute hate. I'm not sure that people dropping into a thread on a subject that they absolutely have no interest in at all just to call everyone in the thread an idiot (like, I don't know, a thread about the virtues of mulching [I'm sure someone is very interested in mulching, but it's off the top of my head a subject that very few people would have strong feelings about, and even fewer people would be even remotely interested in those opinions]) is something that has ever happened here. That, to me, would be trolling, but I have never seen it.
More nuanced, though, and maybe more to the point: If you post "lol wtf is mulching," you have said nothing that really insults anyone (and you also haven't said anything very useful, but never mind; saying something vapid isn't trolling, it's just a waste of space), and if you say "lol mulchers are dumb" you are probably trolling, but what if you say, "I hate mulchers and their stupid mulch machines that they run at the crack of dawn on the weekends when I'm trying to sleep in and the stench of their stupid mulch and say it a bunch of times 'mulch mulch mulch mulch' it just sounds stupid"? That's not a flattering take on mulching, it may be a take on mulching that you as a mulcher find thoroughly objectionable, and it doesn't take into account the aesthetic benefits to one's lawn of mulching, or the hard work that goes into a good mulch, or how your dad sat you on his knee and taught you the secrets of mulch as a wee nipper and you're tearing up just thinking about it, or what have you, but it's not someone trolling mulchers. It's just someone saying -- admittedly, in a rude way -- something about mulchers that you don't like. You can rebut them, you can ignore them, you can tell them to mulch a bag of dicks if that's the way you choose to live your life, but it's not really fair to accuse them of posting in bad faith, because they are not. Although trolls are obviously assholes, not all assholes are actually trolls. That's all I'm saying here.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:33 AM on July 10, 2010
I wish people would stop using the word 'meme' when they don't know what it means.
Well, actually.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:40 AM on July 10, 2010
Well, actually.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:40 AM on July 10, 2010
I hope that's some sort of basic inability with the English language at work there, champ, rather than an endorsement of the idea it's be great for kids to grow up aiming to be rapists.
But it is be great, Professor!
posted by Wolof at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2010
But it is be great, Professor!
posted by Wolof at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2010
And, not quite on topic, but...to find Nationals fans somewhere other than S. Capitol St. is just...(sniff)..well, maybe things ARE turning around... (Go Nats!)
posted by umberto at 9:05 AM on July 10, 2010
posted by umberto at 9:05 AM on July 10, 2010
what if you say, "I hate mulchers and their stupid mulch machines that they run at the crack of dawn on the weekends when I'm trying to sleep in and the stench of their stupid mulch and say it a bunch of times 'mulch mulch mulch mulch' it just sounds stupid"?
Yeah I agree, I think trolling is a pretty nuanced and very narrowly defined term, but I think other people here tend to have a borader definition which has more to do with the effects of the commenter and not necessarily the intent. So the "fuck u mulchers" and the extended rant comment about mulching are both still pretty out of place in a thread that is about anything other than The Great Mulch Controversy. I guess I see threads as being of a few types (at least).
1. controversy type posts where there is an issue where people have strong feelings on each side and having a strongly worded presentation about your own feelings on the subject is entirely apropos
2. posts about a general topic where showing up and saying "I fucking hate Coca-Cola and the way their business practices negatively impact people in the Indian subcontinent and I even hate the color red, so this Diet Coke/Mentos video SUCKS" is sort of missing the point and dropping a turd in a thread that's about something else.
And we see, on MeFi, a lot of people who see threads that are presented the second way, as being examples of the first type and so they show up all fired up with their strong opinions and wonder why no one wants to have a heated debate about mulch with them. And as mods we refer to the "please don't be an asshole" guideline and think "gee, that's sort of assholish." And it's tough because if you're an activist in a lot of areas, sitting by and being quiet while people talk about something that has a bunch of negative repercussions or unforseen consequences feels like the wrong thing to do. And yet, every thread on how to make a good BBQ sandwich can't turn into a referendum on Meat is Murder Y/N.
So I think there's a fairly wide division between what is rude and what is actively trollish [where your only participation in the site is to get a rise out of people and your main goal is to either lull people into a trusting false sense of security and/or troll them] but there's still a lot of assholish behavior that's not that great, though not specifically outlawed, that we'd like to see less of.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:43 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yeah I agree, I think trolling is a pretty nuanced and very narrowly defined term, but I think other people here tend to have a borader definition which has more to do with the effects of the commenter and not necessarily the intent. So the "fuck u mulchers" and the extended rant comment about mulching are both still pretty out of place in a thread that is about anything other than The Great Mulch Controversy. I guess I see threads as being of a few types (at least).
1. controversy type posts where there is an issue where people have strong feelings on each side and having a strongly worded presentation about your own feelings on the subject is entirely apropos
2. posts about a general topic where showing up and saying "I fucking hate Coca-Cola and the way their business practices negatively impact people in the Indian subcontinent and I even hate the color red, so this Diet Coke/Mentos video SUCKS" is sort of missing the point and dropping a turd in a thread that's about something else.
And we see, on MeFi, a lot of people who see threads that are presented the second way, as being examples of the first type and so they show up all fired up with their strong opinions and wonder why no one wants to have a heated debate about mulch with them. And as mods we refer to the "please don't be an asshole" guideline and think "gee, that's sort of assholish." And it's tough because if you're an activist in a lot of areas, sitting by and being quiet while people talk about something that has a bunch of negative repercussions or unforseen consequences feels like the wrong thing to do. And yet, every thread on how to make a good BBQ sandwich can't turn into a referendum on Meat is Murder Y/N.
So I think there's a fairly wide division between what is rude and what is actively trollish [where your only participation in the site is to get a rise out of people and your main goal is to either lull people into a trusting false sense of security and/or troll them] but there's still a lot of assholish behavior that's not that great, though not specifically outlawed, that we'd like to see less of.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:43 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think that a strong dislike for something constitutes interest
That would excuse any sort of response at all to Topic X. It's not even a slippery slope; it's a hole. I think you're doing some impressive, if only mental, gymnastics to say you think people should be allowed to vent their spleen on any topic just to justify this case. To wit:
I'm not sure that people dropping into a thread on a subject that they absolutely have no interest in at all just to call everyone in the thread an idiot . . . is something that has ever happened here. That, to me, would be trolling, but I have never seen it.
You're either being obtuse or not looking very hard. There's even a meme that memorializes the attitude: "Is this something I'd need a TV to know about?"
posted by yerfatma at 9:50 AM on July 10, 2010
That would excuse any sort of response at all to Topic X. It's not even a slippery slope; it's a hole. I think you're doing some impressive, if only mental, gymnastics to say you think people should be allowed to vent their spleen on any topic just to justify this case. To wit:
I'm not sure that people dropping into a thread on a subject that they absolutely have no interest in at all just to call everyone in the thread an idiot . . . is something that has ever happened here. That, to me, would be trolling, but I have never seen it.
You're either being obtuse or not looking very hard. There's even a meme that memorializes the attitude: "Is this something I'd need a TV to know about?"
posted by yerfatma at 9:50 AM on July 10, 2010
I won't say it's one of the funniest lines in the Birdcage, because I can't count them, but I love this from when Armand is trying to teach Albert to act "straight:"
Armand: Al, you old son of a bitch! How ya doin'? How do you feel about that call today? I mean the Dolphins! Fourth-and-three play on their 30 yard line with only 34 seconds to go!
Albert: How do you think I feel? Betrayed, bewildered...
posted by Pax at 10:39 AM on July 10, 2010
Armand: Al, you old son of a bitch! How ya doin'? How do you feel about that call today? I mean the Dolphins! Fourth-and-three play on their 30 yard line with only 34 seconds to go!
Albert: How do you think I feel? Betrayed, bewildered...
posted by Pax at 10:39 AM on July 10, 2010
You're either being obtuse or not looking very hard. There's even a meme that memorializes the attitude: "Is this something I'd need a TV to know about?"
Is that really trolling, though? I guess my take on it is exactly what jessamyn wrote above ("where your only participation in the site is to get a rise out of people and your main goal is to either lull people into a trusting false sense of security and/or troll them"), and even if we extend the definition of trolling to just generally being an asshole, I'm not sure that dropping in to say that you don't know who a person is or have never watched this supposedly popular movie or whatever exactly qualifies...that's assholism, sure, but it's a pretty low-impact strain. Trolling, to me, is like the internet version of calling someone a horse thief -- there are associations with dishonesty and mean-spiritedness and all kinds of vile shit. If someone says that they've never heard of your favorite band, and they have no reason to be in the thread other than to let you know that, I guess that's trolling -- I don't think it should be encouraged, at least -- but it seems so minor-league that I think you'd have to be very sensitive to get all that offended by it. It usually just seems (when it's not obviously half-joking) tiresome at worst.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:46 AM on July 10, 2010
Is that really trolling, though? I guess my take on it is exactly what jessamyn wrote above ("where your only participation in the site is to get a rise out of people and your main goal is to either lull people into a trusting false sense of security and/or troll them"), and even if we extend the definition of trolling to just generally being an asshole, I'm not sure that dropping in to say that you don't know who a person is or have never watched this supposedly popular movie or whatever exactly qualifies...that's assholism, sure, but it's a pretty low-impact strain. Trolling, to me, is like the internet version of calling someone a horse thief -- there are associations with dishonesty and mean-spiritedness and all kinds of vile shit. If someone says that they've never heard of your favorite band, and they have no reason to be in the thread other than to let you know that, I guess that's trolling -- I don't think it should be encouraged, at least -- but it seems so minor-league that I think you'd have to be very sensitive to get all that offended by it. It usually just seems (when it's not obviously half-joking) tiresome at worst.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:46 AM on July 10, 2010
It does tend to be disruptive, though. The person has dropped their steaming pile in the thread, probably knowing full well that it's going to spark an unhelpful reaction from others in the thread; in the example of sports, derailing the subject from say, last night's basketball game to how everyone is a corporate sucker, and no I'm not, YOU are, and blahblahblah. If that's not trolling, it's pretty damn close.
On the other hand, I can see someone who isn't a sports fan coming into a thread to make comments and questions in good faith, e.g., "You know, I've never really been able to get into sports because it seems like it's more about advertising than the art of competitive physicality. Am I missing something? Help me out here. I'd sincerely like to know what you guys see in this, what gets you so excited about it."
In other words, it's about intention, and more so, execution.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:17 AM on July 10, 2010
On the other hand, I can see someone who isn't a sports fan coming into a thread to make comments and questions in good faith, e.g., "You know, I've never really been able to get into sports because it seems like it's more about advertising than the art of competitive physicality. Am I missing something? Help me out here. I'd sincerely like to know what you guys see in this, what gets you so excited about it."
In other words, it's about intention, and more so, execution.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:17 AM on July 10, 2010
hat: I found bitter-girl.com's sneering characterization of fans as "suburban assholes" who all reside in McMansions and eat at Applebee's to be pretty damned distasteful.
Ok, let me rephrase that: insert "Cavaliers fans" for "fans," because Your City's Fan Mileage May Vary. For all I know, Your City's Fans are as plush as kittens and delightful as rainbows. However, we weren't talking about Your City's Team, we were talking about mine.
Ever been to downtown Cleveland on a game night? I'm there, frequently, because I live in the city itself, and I often stop downtown to pick up my boyfriend on the way home. He works a few blocks from the basketball arena.
Get stuck behind a giant SUV with Medina County plates (or two, or three) who are trying to pull into $20 game night parking, when none of the SUVs are being driven by people who know where the hell they're going or what they're doing, because they never go downtown except for the games, and you may feel differently.
Now, go to the stretch of Pearl Road in Medina County where all the Applebee's and ChainMcRestaurants are on a non-game night, and try to find parking. Forget it. Those people aren't leaving their exurban enclaves unless they absolutely have to.
My characterization of the fanbase here may be sneering, but it's based on personal experience, unlike yours.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:26 PM on July 10, 2010
Ok, let me rephrase that: insert "Cavaliers fans" for "fans," because Your City's Fan Mileage May Vary. For all I know, Your City's Fans are as plush as kittens and delightful as rainbows. However, we weren't talking about Your City's Team, we were talking about mine.
Ever been to downtown Cleveland on a game night? I'm there, frequently, because I live in the city itself, and I often stop downtown to pick up my boyfriend on the way home. He works a few blocks from the basketball arena.
Get stuck behind a giant SUV with Medina County plates (or two, or three) who are trying to pull into $20 game night parking, when none of the SUVs are being driven by people who know where the hell they're going or what they're doing, because they never go downtown except for the games, and you may feel differently.
Now, go to the stretch of Pearl Road in Medina County where all the Applebee's and ChainMcRestaurants are on a non-game night, and try to find parking. Forget it. Those people aren't leaving their exurban enclaves unless they absolutely have to.
My characterization of the fanbase here may be sneering, but it's based on personal experience, unlike yours.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:26 PM on July 10, 2010
And confirmation bias.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:28 PM on July 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:28 PM on July 10, 2010 [4 favorites]
MULCH THIS LEBRON!
Hey BTW are the Sixers still in the NBA?
posted by Mister_A at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2010
Hey BTW are the Sixers still in the NBA?
posted by Mister_A at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2010
Pretty sure they were relegated.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:28 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:28 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Get stuck behind a giant SUV with Medina County plates (or two, or three) who are trying to pull into $20 game night parking, when none of the SUVs are being driven by people who know where the hell they're going or what they're doing, because they never go downtown except for the games, and you may feel differently.
Heh. Downtown Halifax, Nova Scotia becomes a huge clusterfuck every time their *Quebec Junior League* hockey team plays a home game. And, yet, there are still a great many people wondering why the big leagues couldn't move into town.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:34 PM on July 10, 2010
Heh. Downtown Halifax, Nova Scotia becomes a huge clusterfuck every time their *Quebec Junior League* hockey team plays a home game. And, yet, there are still a great many people wondering why the big leagues couldn't move into town.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:34 PM on July 10, 2010
What about composting? Is that as bad as mulching?
posted by languagehat at 6:37 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by languagehat at 6:37 PM on July 10, 2010
bitter-girl.com My characterization of the fanbase here may be sneering, but it's based on personal experience, unlike yours.
In addition to making a big assumption, you are missing my point. I don't find your own venomous feelings of superiority relevant whether they're justified or not. What concerns me is that you've taken a nuanced issue that could have made an interesting sidebar to a topic at the intersection of sports, economics, and culture, and you collapsed it to a personal, mean-spirited rant at a convenient group of bogeymen.
The vitriol would be distracting and discreditable even if I thought you had the right bogeymen.
I have a real interest in seeing northeast Ohio rejuvenated because I lived there for a long time. My classmates played against (and got schooled by) LeBron James while he and we were in high school. My parents are still in northeast Ohio after almost forty years, several of them in Cleveland and many more in and around a city that unfortunately has socioeconomic problems as serious as Cleveland's. We're on the same team, bitter-girl.com, but for fuck's sake, homeskillet, I wish you'd stop shrinking the pool of potential members by spitting in their faces.
posted by hat at 6:42 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
In addition to making a big assumption, you are missing my point. I don't find your own venomous feelings of superiority relevant whether they're justified or not. What concerns me is that you've taken a nuanced issue that could have made an interesting sidebar to a topic at the intersection of sports, economics, and culture, and you collapsed it to a personal, mean-spirited rant at a convenient group of bogeymen.
The vitriol would be distracting and discreditable even if I thought you had the right bogeymen.
I have a real interest in seeing northeast Ohio rejuvenated because I lived there for a long time. My classmates played against (and got schooled by) LeBron James while he and we were in high school. My parents are still in northeast Ohio after almost forty years, several of them in Cleveland and many more in and around a city that unfortunately has socioeconomic problems as serious as Cleveland's. We're on the same team, bitter-girl.com, but for fuck's sake, homeskillet, I wish you'd stop shrinking the pool of potential members by spitting in their faces.
posted by hat at 6:42 PM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Halifax is only a little bit smaller than Cleveland, right, Sys Rq? (I think we're a little over 400,000 in population now)
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:44 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:44 PM on July 10, 2010
Compared to Cleveland, Halifax has 3/4 the population in 5/4 the square footage. So, yeah, the fact that Cleveland has an NBA team, an MLB team, an NFL team, an AFL team, an AHL team, and two NCAA teams seems absolutely terrifying.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:27 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by Sys Rq at 7:27 PM on July 10, 2010
Mets not only lost to the Braves again but Reyes got injured again, so now I'm unhappy.
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on July 11, 2010
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on July 11, 2010
I can't help but cheer a little for teams from small-market cities whose economy isn't what they used to be. There are plenty of them to go around.
posted by box at 11:42 AM on July 11, 2010
posted by box at 11:42 AM on July 11, 2010
octothorpe: "octothorpe"
My wife thought that I was being mean to Cleveland. So I apologize, I really only hate Brown's Fans (and there can't be too many of those).
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 PM on July 11, 2010
My wife thought that I was being mean to Cleveland. So I apologize, I really only hate Brown's Fans (and there can't be too many of those).
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 PM on July 11, 2010
octothorpe: "I really only hate Brown's Fans (and there can't be too many of those)."
And Pittsburgh fans are douchebags.
I'm afraid I'm making a stab in the dark here since I don't know much about you. If you are in fact not a Pittsburgh fan, please let me know something you care about so I can make a grossly general insult about people who care about that thing. Thanks.
I'm really not angry at you, octothorpe, this whole thing and MetaFilter in general has just been really annoying lately with it's "all X are Y" statements lately.
I'm off to tell my Cav's fan buddy who's never been to live game that he isn't allowed to enter the city for fears of disturbing bitter-girl's urban bliss.
posted by charred husk at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2010
And Pittsburgh fans are douchebags.
I'm afraid I'm making a stab in the dark here since I don't know much about you. If you are in fact not a Pittsburgh fan, please let me know something you care about so I can make a grossly general insult about people who care about that thing. Thanks.
I'm really not angry at you, octothorpe, this whole thing and MetaFilter in general has just been really annoying lately with it's "all X are Y" statements lately.
I'm off to tell my Cav's fan buddy who's never been to live game that he isn't allowed to enter the city for fears of disturbing bitter-girl's urban bliss.
posted by charred husk at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2010
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posted by yhbc at 7:05 AM on July 9, 2010