Jessamyn says that she can't remember a question going that poorly in recent memory, yet you don't see it as a rage-on. There is a seeming disconnect and I say this not to call you out but to underline that it seems that AskMe is increasingly a place for people to demonstrate their beliefs rather than answer questions.As others have noted, I can't see the deleted comments. So, I'll assume that the stuff that's missing from the thread is really ugly and nasty. If that's the case, kudos to jessamyn and any other mods who were riding herd: the end result is not something I can see any problems with.
Mansplaining, on the other hand, is more dismissive of the mansplainee's ability to even comprehend such lofty ideas as the mansplainer regularly ponders within the vast depths of the mansplainer's magnificent, clever fact filled mind. The mansplainee is very clearly supposed to be in an intellectually subordinate position to the mansplainer, not an equal one.I said I wouldn't talk in this thread, but this one stood out as interesting and i'll pretend that it's a different topic entirely. The perfect case of the mansplaining vibe, IMO, is the character Mr Meyerburg from the movie Cold Comfort Farm. He's a self-absorbed writer who insists the female protagonist of the film would love him if she weren't so sexually repressed, and starts out conversations with the thought-provoking question, "Do you believe that women... have souls?" He considers himself quite refined and modern because he believes that the answer is, in fact, yes.
He's not an object, (I'm presuming based on past discussion) he's a member of the structural class that benefits from eliding history in order to make these kinds of problems of oppression into problems of behavior.I kind of like the idea that I oppress people by ogling them, and I'm not just behaving badly. I feel powerful! Thank you for that.
The constant reference to "real" or "actual" sexual harassment seeks only to make something like this unreal. Unreal as in imaginary as in it didn't exist it didn't happen it's all in your head girlie.I think sometimes when people refer to sexual harassment as not being "real" or "actual", they just mean they don't care about it, not that it didn't happen. They consider themselves the sort of people who care about all sexual harassment, though, so the resolution is to exclude what's under discussion from the definition of the term.
Here are some more unflattering imprecations I can make about people who disagree with me on a topic.Disagree with me? I'm expressing my own attitudes, and yes, it is unflattering. I think that's why some people prefer to quibble about whether something is "sexual harassment".
To all the angry OP-blaming responders out there, I am sincerely glad I do not work with you. I am sincerely glad that I do not get to experience or observe your lack of compassion for the other half of our grossly disempowered race.and that sounds like you are addressing all women who get angry with men, whether it is unwarranted or justifiable.
I have seen you in action every time an emotional young man has dropped from post-secondary because he could not access the support he needed because he was born a stupid young man. I have seen you every time a woman has unleashed her biting rage at the young man who nervously could not find the words to best articulate his struggles, and so in his clumsiness, gave her the ammunition to justify verbally castrating him. This is a very real issue I strive to address in my work. Women's anger towards men is just as emotionally damaging as men's anger towards women. I also consider it more frightening, as the results as lost in the black box of emotions men come to accept as their "feelings". Particularly abused men.
“I have some sympathy with this guy, because I understand that, for reasons I don't understand nor have control over, I also feel lust towards lots of women pretty much all day long, and for reasons I don't understand nor have control over, my eyes are, as if instinctively, drawn to cleavage and butts, and it takes a lot of work to not ogle women all day. However, I know it's my responsibility to not do that, and I condemn this guy's actions”...than it is to say:
“Men evolved to have as many sex partners as possible, so it's natural that guys do this. However, I know it's my responsibility to not do it, and I condemn this guy's actions.”The latter illuminates nothing for people who've all heard the lizard brain argument, reads like a justification, and can easily be “refuted.” The former, however, is untheoretical reporting of mental conditions and even though, while typing it, it triggers a lot of “I'm being a pig and I shouldn't be typing this” alarms, I think it's actually the most fruitful way to talk about this issue.
posted by atrazine at 5:10 AM on August 19, 2010 [4 favorites]