Favorites, schmavorites November 1, 2010 10:14 AM Subscribe

One year ago today, a metafilter shitstorm was brewing, when the mods inadvertently hit upon a collective hot button... favorites.

Last year, on November 1st, the mods changed the from the default "# of people favorited this post" to the newfangled "has favorites". The linked thread has a post count of 2725 comments, the content of which range from spluttering outrage and hate, blind favoriting just to skew counts and render favorting moot, to members confessing how they derive self esteem from their favorite count, to people explaining how in tl;dr threads they used the high favorite count as skimming fodder, people saying they use favorites simply as a bookmark, to people saying they don't give a rat about favorites at all.
That thread also birthed some wonderful greasemonkey scripts to either return the favorite count to the status quo, as well as one of my personal favorites, which changes the text from "has favorites" to "has schmavorites".
I elected to participate in the test that month, and have since remained on the new default, with 'has favorites" instead of "# of favorites". Did this change how people favorite things, long term? Do people think more about commenting just for lulz? What say you all?

posted by 8dot3 to MetaFilter-Related at 10:14 AM (147 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite

I would say that my use of the site has not changed dramatically since before the introduction of that proposed change (which I opted out of). Except that I am, as ever, still trying to moderate my own comments and behavior wherever possible so as to spare the mods any more work than necessary.

Also, if 500 people favorite this comment, I'll eat a bedbug. And film it.
posted by hermitosis at 10:19 AM on November 1, 2010 [262 favorites]

I refuse to get involved in any discussion until the correct "favourites" spelling is used.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 10:20 AM on November 1, 2010 [21 favorites]

I'm sick of this linguistic imprecision. Favoritism is preference plus power. What we really do when we click that plus sign is signal enjoyment, not curry favor. We all play favorites, but not all of us enjoy things. Wait. I think I lost myself.
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:25 AM on November 1, 2010 [8 favorites]

I refuse to get involved in any discussion until the correct "favourites" spelling is used.

I made a script for you. And I have my favorites filtered through this other script which has a one, some, most count visible via little graphics.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:25 AM on November 1, 2010 [11 favorites]

Too.
Soon.
posted by boo_radley at 10:29 AM on November 1, 2010 [10 favorites]

I refuse to get involved in any discussion until the correct "favourites" spelling is used.

There's a greasemonkey script for that.
posted by juv3nal at 10:30 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

oh goddamn. too slow. Why do you have to show up and ruin everything, Mom?
posted by juv3nal at 10:31 AM on November 1, 2010

Either we've entered a favorites inflationary period, or my comments are just getting better and better.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:37 AM on November 1, 2010 [11 favorites]

FAVES.
posted by BeerFilter at 10:37 AM on November 1, 2010

FAVORITE THIS COMMENT AND TEN OTHER COMMENT OR YOU WILL BE RUN OVER AND NEVER KISSED, TRUST ME THIS IS TRUE IT HAPPND TO MY FRIEND
posted by Think_Long at 10:40 AM on November 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

I elected to participate in the test that month

No you didn't. You were forced to participate, until people got mad and were given the option to opt out.
posted by graventy at 10:40 AM on November 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

What we really do when we click that plus sign is signal enjoyment, not curry favor.

That might be what you're doing; what I'm doing is bookmarking the comment for some reason you can't really know. Maybe I loved it. Maybe I agreed and think that a favorite is like a vote. Maybe I disagreed and want to collect my thoughts, return later, and debate a point. Maybe I'm writing a novel compiled solely from MeFi comments and I'm saving that one for later. Maybe it's a recipe or a quote or a joke or a link I want to find later.

Calling them "favorites" presumes an understanding of how individual community members use them, but I try to remember that different people use 'em differently.

I'm not complaining about what they're called, really; I'm grateful to have them because they're so darned handy in a number of ways. I harbor a vague, wistful desire for them to be acknowledged as bookmarks rather than favorites, but that's just me.
posted by Elsa at 10:40 AM on November 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Either we've entered a favorites inflationary period, or my comments are just getting better and better.

OMG BEST COMMENT
posted by shakespeherian at 10:41 AM on November 1, 2010

No you didn't. You were forced to participate, until people got mad and were given the option to opt out.

At the point at which people were given the opt-out option, people who didn't make use of it were electing to participate. Sorry this is still a sore spot for people, we promise we'll never do it again.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:42 AM on November 1, 2010

OMG BEST COMMENT

Wait for my besterest comment! What ill I follow that up with? Super-mega besterest comment?

Out of control inflationary spiral!!
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:44 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

DEVILS RANCHER IS THE FUNNIEST

ALSO THE SMARTEST
posted by shakespeherian at 10:45 AM on November 1, 2010

Pony: I want a "Most Favorite Ever" for shakespeherian's comments, plz.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:47 AM on November 1, 2010

I remember last year.
posted by Sailormom at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

If you favorite this comment I will genetically engineer a pony sized bed bug for hermitosis to eat.
posted by special-k at 10:48 AM on November 1, 2010 [31 favorites]

And I will eat hermitosis.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:51 AM on November 1, 2010 [10 favorites]

It was unfortunate how contentious the "experiment" became. However, I'm very happy to have been able to keep favorites tallies invisible. Turned out that seeing them really did cause me some small amount of stress, and I am a happier user with the blinders on.
posted by zennie at 10:55 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm curious to know how many others, like me, who have opted out of the whole favorites program.
posted by crunchland at 10:56 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't show favorites at all now. Once in a blue moon I will log out to look at favorite counts when I'm curious how someone's comment is being received. I probably favorite more often than before because my contrarian instincts don't kick in the way they used to when I'd go to favorite something and stop because I saw it already a million favorites.
posted by enn at 10:56 AM on November 1, 2010

I have only opted out of the plural form. I have exactly one favorite; when someone else says something funnier or more awesome that comment will be my favorite.
posted by Curious Artificer at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2010 [6 favorites]

Either we've entered a favorites inflationary period, or my comments are just getting better and better.

I vote for the latter. Just like on IMDB with users' votes for movies: I am so happy that for the last ten years, that three or four of the twenty best movies of all time have always come out in the last eighteen months, and at least one of them is the most recent CGI-stuffed blockbuster. We live in marvellous times, my friends.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:01 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm curious to know how many others, like me, who have opted out of the whole favorites program.

I just did so. I have found myself skimming threads, looking for those comments with the most favorites. I don't think it helps my understanding of a thread at all - often, I'll come to a comment with lots of favorites in response to a different comment, which means that I have to backtrack to find out the context.

Relatedly, I just changed to Professional White Background, and switched my fonts about so it's a serif for the body text.

It's like a brand new MeFi, so I give it a week before I switch back to comforting, comforting colour with Comic Sans^*.

^* - Not really. Curlz MT.
posted by djgh at 11:04 AM on November 1, 2010

I thought we all knew Shawshank Redemption is better than the complete works of Welles, Tarkovsky, Bergman, Fellini, and Hitchcock combined.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:04 AM on November 1, 2010

I'm curious to know how many others, like me, who have opted out of the whole favorites program.

I give 'em, and I check to see how many I have because WHO DOESN'T? but I don't have 'em displayed. This probably means that I'm favoriting wonky stuff that everyone else thinks is kinda "HUH?!" but to me a favorite is like a High Five - a little display of support from me to the commenter, so it's not really relevant to me if other people liked it.

(Hence why I check my own from time to time. Kinda a barometer of "Does this mean anything to anyone else or am I just talking out of my ass here?")

It's really helped my reading of threads to not have the favorite count on and it baffles me when favorites are brought up as "justifying" a comment as in "This had 654 favorites! And I think it sucked!" Turning on the favorite count makes the thread read with a stronger bias, to me, and I find myself subconsciously "agreeing" with the higher favorited POV... or, sometimes, rooting for the underdog. Much better for my own personal sanity to be just blindly doling out favorites blissfully unaware of the favoriting habits of everyone else.
posted by sonika at 11:06 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I never turned them back on either, enn. Curious about how many people didn't.
posted by nanojath at 11:12 AM on November 1, 2010

I set my favorites to "don't show favorites at all" and I feel a lot happier reading metafilter. It seems more conversational and less like a contest.

But I still obsessively watch how much my comments get favorited, so it isn't a total success. Maybe I need a greasemonkey script to punch me in the face whenever I care about that.
posted by aubilenon at 11:14 AM on November 1, 2010

I elected to participate in the test that month, and have since remained on the new default, with 'has favorites" instead of '# of favorites'.

It doesn't seem to be true that this is the new default. "# favorites" shows when you aren't logged in and I checked a sockpuppet account that I signed up for during 2010 and it shows the same thing. (Unless it's set with a cookie or something that I didn't successfully clear...)
posted by XMLicious at 11:15 AM on November 1, 2010

But I still obsessively watch how much my comments get favorited, so it isn't a total success.

How else am I supposed to know when I'm being clever?
posted by nanojath at 11:20 AM on November 1, 2010

I use "has favorites" and mostly don't pay attention to which comments do and don't have favorites, but sometimes I hover over certain comments because I'm curious as to how many favorites it's gotten. As to my favoriting behavior, the major change is that I've mostly stopped thinking about what my favorite means (have you ever looked, I mean really looked, at a favorite, man?) and just click the plus sign when the spirit moves me. I don't mind favorites, per se, but I wouldn't care if they went away.

I'm still amazed that the MetaTalk thread turned into the shitshow that it did (though, eventually, it calmed down and some fine discussion happened). MetaFilter's collective wig flipped in a manner I wasn't expecting. I will say that participating in that thread changed my understanding of the MetaFilter community, not for the better or for the worse, it simply changed.
posted by Kattullus at 11:21 AM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

No, XMLicious, you're correct. The default is the same ever since December 1 last year as it was before November.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:31 AM on November 1, 2010

As to my favoriting behavior, the major change is that I've mostly stopped thinking about what my favorite means (have you ever looked, I mean really looked, at a favorite, man?) and just click the plus sign when the spirit moves me.

Yeah this is my approach. If asked to defend my favoriting history, I'd shriek and run away.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:33 AM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

I'm still amazed that the MetaTalk thread turned into the shitshow that it did

Really? I'm not surprised at all that unilateral change as an experiment went horribly wrong.
posted by smackfu at 11:41 AM on November 1, 2010

Elsa: "Calling them "favorites" presumes an understanding of how individual community members use them, but I try to remember that different people use 'em differently. "

This reminds me of my semi-recently developed "bucket-o-beans" metaphor for explaining why favorites work.

Every comment is a bucket. And everybody has some beans. And everybody can share their beans for whatever reason they want.

"Your words moved me. Please accept this humble bean of solidarity, so it may sprout into a sprig of hope."

"That analysis was better than anything in my morning paper! Take this nutritious bean, which is surely better than whatever they're still paying the copy-wranglers over there."

"This bean has an embedded GPS microtracker so I can find your bucket later. Ignore the beep."

"Take this rancid, smelly bean, you bozo, so its odor may lead me back to your folly later and I may laugh, at you."

But! Beans pretty much look the same. So you can't tell at a glance how any particular bean was intended. Still, you can't really go wrong sampling the richest plates, especially if you're short on time. And while the SuperSized Buckets are not always more nourishing than the more modest helpings, they're guaranteed to be interesting. If they weren't, then why would they have attracted that much attention?

(Incidentally, I see visible favorites as a sort of blue-ribbon seal of excellence, so I can tell, at a glance, if any particular BeanBucket has received much acclaim. Stuff without that mark is like undiscovered local cuisine -- sometimes indie and avant-garde, sometimes healthy but nondescript. But there's sadly way too much of it to sample all of it all the time. I guess hiding favorites would be like going on a blind taste test, letting your ladle fall where it may, which has its appeals. But I like having that Zagat's Bean Survey there when I need it.)

(The Word of the Day is belabored)
posted by Rhaomi at 11:41 AM on November 1, 2010 [44 favorites]

*Having flashback and sobbing quietly in the corner*
posted by nomadicink at 11:42 AM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Really? I'm not surprised at all that unilateral change as an experiment went horribly wrong.

There have been literally thousands of "unilateral" changes made to the site over its existence and none — with the possible exceptions of closing, and opening, new user signups — have caused a reaction like that. I think surprise is a reasonable reaction.
posted by enn at 11:44 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

We will just have to disagree on that one. Pretty much any change here gets a very strong reaction.
posted by smackfu at 11:49 AM on November 1, 2010

"Take this rancid, smelly bean, you bozo, so its odor may lead me back to your folly later and I may laugh, at you."

I know that people do this and it's a totally cromulent use of a favorite... but it still baffles me. You're applying the term "favorite" to something you... disagree? with? Hrm. You and I live in different realities.

I'm sure yours is a totally lovely reality, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I also just watched the Season 2 Finale of Fringe and holy hell, alternate reality Dunham has some awesome hair.
posted by sonika at 11:52 AM on November 1, 2010

My comments and posts are all intended as homeopathically diluted time release capsules; at the appropriate time they will receive some appropriate abundance of favo(u)rites. The appropriate time for the enfavo(u)ating is five years from posting.
It will not be until someone scours the internet, and can see how they all connect that they get said appropriate favorites.
It's a ticking trifecta time-bomb of terror and tacit high fives, favo(u)r c(o)urrying, and savo(u)ring for later!

Anyone else ever notice the hiding of the word Intern (as in internment camp) inside of the word internet?
Just saying.
posted by infinite intimation at 11:53 AM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I do pretty much exactly what kalessin does. On the rare occasion when I see favorites (when I'm using another computer) I find them vaguely unsettling and it drives me to log in very quickly.
posted by tallus at 11:56 AM on November 1, 2010

Rhaomi, I put a bean in your bucket but I'm not saying what kind of bean it is, except it is definitely an overthought one. Sorry about that.
posted by rtha at 12:02 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

You're applying the term "favorite" to something you... disagree? with? Hrm.

I know that the official name for the feature is "favorites", but it may help to un-hrm you to think of it not so much as someone "applying the term favorites" as someone deploying a record keeping function built into the site. I would venture that almost no one on mefi actually says "this is my favorite!" every time they click the little plus sign.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

rtha: "Rhaomi, I put a bean in your bucket but I'm not saying what kind of bean it is, except it is definitely an overthought one. Sorry about that."

I realize too late that I actually dislike beans, and should have chosen a yummier metaphor. But it's the overthought that counts!
posted by Rhaomi at 12:08 PM on November 1, 2010

I would venture that almost no one on mefi actually says "this is my favorite!" every time they click the little plus sign.

I do. Sort of. I mean, when I hit the little plus sign I think "OH BOY! I like this!" And sometimes I see a comment I sort of like and I think about it and think "But is it my... favorite?" and then, no. No, it's not.

I am possibly too literal in this regard.

Still, keeping tabs on comments you disagree with feels odd to me, but I'm not saying this in a "people who do this are wrong" sense but in a sense of "Huh, I had never even thought of considering doing that" kind of way.
posted by sonika at 12:12 PM on November 1, 2010

8dot3: “The linked thread has a post count of 2725 comments, the content of which range from spluttering outrage and hate... ”

Thank you for noticing my nearly one hundred comments. I, for one, am glad that my hard-earned legacy of bile lives on, and hope that it will be celebrated one day by my spiteful, spiteful grandchildren.
posted by koeselitz at 12:13 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm still waiting for someone to create outputs for the CPB/Cortex FABAM6 calculation, and the klangklangston FARM calculation.

FABAM6 = (favorited by others / (posts [all sites] + comments [all sites] + questions + answers + playlists)) - all activity occurring prior to May 2006.

FARM = Favorites Above Replacement Member = (favorited by others - (FABAM6[all Mefites] * (posts without favorites) * .8))

baseball nerrrrrrrrrdddd
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:22 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

I heard they were giving out hugs in this thread

rapidly composes thoughtful screed on favourites
posted by The Lady is a designer at 12:23 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

smackfu: Pretty much any change here gets a very strong reaction.

Yeah, but that one was a level beyond what usually happens. I mean, some MeFites, otherwise reasonable and intelligent people, were impugning some rather far-fetched motives to the MetaFilter admins.

And most often I feel that change is greeted with cries of joy.

koeselitz: my nearly one hundred comments

Nearly? I think you mean over. Though I can't really say much, since I posted over 50 comments in that thread.
posted by Kattullus at 12:23 PM on November 1, 2010

I've left favorites turned off and I like it.
posted by ersatzkat at 12:26 PM on November 1, 2010

I'm still waiting for someone to create outputs for the CPB/Cortex FABAM6 calculation, and the klangklangston FARM calculation.

This would be relatively easy, except that there's no information about playlists in the Infodump. But if the playlist stats could be dropped from the equation, then it could be done.

I'm not sure it should be done, but the nice thing about being a mad scientist is never having to consider whether or not something should be done.
posted by FishBike at 12:38 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

My favorite thing about favorites is that it provides me with a constant reminder that I'll never really know what people are going to like. I can write a comment and smugly think "oh yeah, that's gonna get some..." and have it be completely ignored, or I can say something trivial and off-hand and get a bunch.

It's good because it reminds me that I don't have a fucking clue, and I shouldn't pretend that I do. Now I just say what the voices tell me to and leave it at that.
posted by quin at 12:45 PM on November 1, 2010 [13 favorites]

I forget about favorites. So glad they're hidden!

Of course, I track my own. How else can I know when I've made some people laugh?

"I refuse to get involved in any discussion until the correct 'favourites' spelling is used."

If you want to type an extra useless character, go right ahead. I don't think the discussion will suffer for your absence.
posted by Eideteker at 12:47 PM on November 1, 2010

I'm not sure it should be done, but the nice thing about being a mad scientist is never having to consider whether or not something should be done.

I have had a couple fevered email exchanges with klang over the last year about (a) how exactly a Metafilter Fantasy Baseball type game could work in terms of stats tracking and so on, and (b) how it needs to never, ever happen because really that's just asking for weirdness and badness.

Some ideas were born to die.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:48 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Some ideas were born to die.

Man, I know exactly what you mean.
posted by hermitosis at 12:54 PM on November 1, 2010

I harbor a vague, wistful desire for them to be acknowledged as bookmarks rather than favorites

Then just think of it as "favorite things to read later." The word can mean whatever people want it to mean. I don't know why people get so hung up on words.
posted by John Cohen at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2010

Some ideas were born to die.

Indeed. I've occasionally run some queries on the Infodump where the results were interesting to me personally, but it was clear they could never see the light of day because of the ensuing weirdness and badness that you mentioned. The only thing to do with those was, metaphorically speaking, to head down to the basement lab with a tire iron and bash its metaphorical head in before it could escape.

Note to self: don't assume it's obvious to others that you are joking about doing bad stuff with the Infodump.
posted by FishBike at 1:00 PM on November 1, 2010

The only thing to do with those was, metaphorically speaking, to head down to the basement lab with a tire iron and bash its metaphorical head in before it could escape.

I deleted 5 years worth of work once.
posted by The Lady is a designer at 1:02 PM on November 1, 2010

There have been literally thousands of "unilateral" changes made to the site over its existence and none — with the possible exceptions of closing, and opening, new user signups — have caused a reaction like that. I think surprise is a reasonable reaction.

I agree with your first sentence but not your second. None of the other changes (as far as I know) were taking away things people had built up. The reaction was predictable.
posted by John Cohen at 1:03 PM on November 1, 2010

Some ideas were born to die.

I thought the same thing when I was designing my nuclear powered murderbot with stabinator attachments and an AI that can only be described as "hungry". Fortunately I never listen to myself and plan on unveiling it soon.

As an aside, is it possible for an AI to get rabies? Because it really seems rabies-y.
posted by quin at 1:05 PM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

But if the playlist stats could be dropped from the equation, then it could be done.

Dooooo it.

I'm not sure it should be done, but the nice thing about being a mad scientist is never having to consider whether or not something should be done.

Dooooo it.

Some ideas were born to die.

Quiet, you. Yeesh. We don't always need to hear someone talking reasonably with everyone's best interests at heart.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:06 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

"Conversations aren't contests!"
"Okay a ~~point~~ favorite for you, but I'm still ahead

posted by griphus at 1:15 PM on November 1, 2010

I pay almost zero attention to favourites. I read the words.
posted by Decani at 1:16 PM on November 1, 2010

Also, I've become convinced that if I amass enough favorites, I'll either rid myself of this horrible addiction for good, or merge bodily with the hivemind. Mods, either way is good, but if it's going to be the latter, I'd like some advance notice to make a few phone calls.
posted by griphus at 1:18 PM on November 1, 2010

The reaction was predictable.

Some amount of negative reaction was predictable, and we went in expecting it and trying to accommodate some of the obvious concerns. Given hindsight and freedom from the real-world time constraints that were butting up against the rollout, we'd probably do things a little differently: provided the Preferences option ahead of time instead of going the easy-to-fix-with-scripts route, started the pre-game discussion a couple days earlier, stress-tested "faved" for the OMG IT'S WORSE THAN "MOIST" reaction it produced.

In terms of degree and form, the reaction was not so predictable. And a year later I can pretty amiably shrug it off as something that fundamentally isn't a big deal and was really only a huge pain in the ass for a few days before things mellowed out. But it was a genuinely surprising few days of some frankly shockingly overt characterizations and accusations and such, in the midst of a taxing if otherwise more well-meaning volume of discussion.

On a happier data-related note, we did get a bunch of feedback with the survey we did at the end of that month, and this thread has reminded me that we haven't done anything with that yet so we're talking a bit about bringing that out for people to look at. pb has some nice graphs of the quantitative parts of the survey that I think we'll make available some way or another soon.

We never really figured out what to do with all the qualitative stuff, the answers to various open-ended questions, largely because it just turned out to be so much data to work through, but we'll try to come up with something even if it's just pulling out some of the more interesting responses.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:22 PM on November 1, 2010

I pay almost zero attention to the words. I check the favorites.
posted by Dumsnill at 1:23 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Still, keeping tabs on comments you disagree with feels odd to me, but I'm not saying this in a "people who do this are wrong" sense but in a sense of "Huh, I had never even thought of considering doing that" kind of way.

I favourite things that I disagree with if they're worded beautifully or if they explain a POV I hadn't considered, even if I still disagree.

None of the other changes (as far as I know) were taking away things people had built up.

There was a TED talk on monkey economics and how they match human economics, we all make poorer logical decisions if something is being taken away and better ones if we didn't have the thing in the first place. It explained anti-taxation protesters and favourites to me.
posted by shinybaum at 1:23 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Oh man, was I grumpy and hungover one year ago today.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:25 PM on November 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

That being said, I still use favorites in the same way and for the same reasons that I hashed out ad nauseam on the original thread. I like favorites. They're my favorite kind of beans.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2010

I finally gave up with the favorites system, especially on Metatalk, when I saw it was being used as a bullying tactic, where a group of people would give people who parrot their own opinions a favorite ... which prompted the people with an opposing viewpoint to favorite the people who espoused that... As if it was some sort of weird popularity contest or something, and it seemed like all it was doing is turning up the volume in an already loud echo chamber, as if clicking a plus sign would somehow make the opinion more valid or something.
posted by crunchland at 1:32 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm curious to know how many others, like me, who have opted out of the whole favorites program.

right here, crunchland.
posted by msconduct at 1:36 PM on November 1, 2010

The whole thing seemed a bit too much like throwing a bone to the snooty "you're doing it wrong!" crowd to me. You know, vocal users who like to piss on the efforts of others, spend their time correcting others, second guessing mods and lobbying for deletions.
posted by Artw at 1:49 PM on November 1, 2010

I'm still waiting for someone to create outputs for the CPB/Cortex FABAM6 calculation, and the klangklangston FARM calculation.

I would also like to see this statistic be park-adjusted (blue/green/grey) and normalized by posts and comments to create xCIP - expected Content Independent Posting statistic.
posted by milkrate at 1:50 PM on November 1, 2010

If you favorite this comment, it will have favorites.
posted by The Whelk at 1:58 PM on November 1, 2010 [6 favorites]

Sadly, no. And it was an impression that only grew stronger as more people leapt in to defend the removal of favorites, to be honest.
posted by Artw at 2:13 PM on November 1, 2010

I tried switching to "has favorites" instead of the favorite count, but I found out that it says "has favorites" even if it's only one favorite. My OCD would not allow me to keep it that way.

Not really. I do like the number, though, as I find it's a gauge of sorts, to see which way the wind blows on the discussion. It's not all about words. It feels like a type of non-verbal communciation. I also like knowing who's like minded in certain ways.

And here's the thing that I never see discussed: it can help keep the peace. There once was a person on the site that I found myself getting somewhat irritated at. Then that person went and favorited one of my comments. Result? That person was my new buddy, even if we didn't agree on everything. Silly, but true.
posted by SpacemanStix at 2:22 PM on November 1, 2010

Some ideas were born to die.

If, somehow, this idea finds a way to live, I humbly request that we use an auction rather than a snake draft, and also use a FAAB instead of waivers for in-season member acquisition. I can already feel myself playing Fantasy MeFi the way I play Fantasy Baseball: Hours and hours of meticulous valuation followed by complete homerism when it's time for the auction. In Baseball, this means lots of Red Sox. In FaMeFi, this means a monopoly on all members of the Chicago Cabal, which doesn't exist.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:30 PM on November 1, 2010

Artw: “The whole thing seemed a bit too much like throwing a bone to the snooty "you're doing it wrong!" crowd to me. You know, vocal users who like to piss on the efforts of others, spend their time correcting others, second guessing mods and lobbying for deletions... And it was an impression that only grew stronger as more people leapt in to defend the removal of favorites, to be honest.”

I've tried to move past that whole thing, and I know I was really fighty in that thread, but honestly I wanted to say that crunchland is completely correct above; and I disagree with what you're saying here, Artw. In fact, it seems the opposite to me. Favorites are the method most used for shouting people down in mean-spirited shitfests. That's why so many of us hated them; they're quite often used for in very negative ways, and they make the discussion more contentious by making it expected that you'll vote for whoever you agree with.

Whatever you think about favorites, I hope I gave the impression there that this wasn't about getting comments deleted or "pissing on the efforts of others." Much to the contrary. Those are things I'm generally not happy about; and I was glad to see favorites disappear specifically because I don't like the pissiness that they often engender.

But I don't really have a strong opinion on this any more. There's an inevitability about it all to me now. Maybe that's me being jaded; I don't know.
posted by koeselitz at 2:35 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

The experiment did help me to pay more attention to those rare occasions when people say things like "my comment has 19 favorites! Clearly people agree with me!" on metatalk, but it's pretty rare and I just see it kind of as eye-roll worthy white noise.

I still stand by my love for favorites as a way of nodding in agreement, more so than shouting down others. And I never hesitate to favorite something that's exceptional without any other favorites, or disagreeing with something with lots of them. I still think individual use of the site varies widely and it's unkind to attribute what amounts to a sub-single-second mouse click to any sort of mean spiritedness or intention to drown people out. I almost guarantee that the vast majority of favorite users still are not using them that way--or even putting as much thought into it as the faverhaters are. For better or for worse.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:48 PM on November 1, 2010

I use the [has favorites +] system, which is fantastic. I can still see how many favorites a post has if I'm curious, but I don't let that number color my initial judgments. Yay compromise!
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:53 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

when I hit the little plus sign I think "OH BOY! I like this!"

I am now picturing you saying this in a Ralph Wiggum voice FYI.
posted by elizardbits at 2:59 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Please don't favorite me. I know that you don't really like what I wrote and you are just doing it out of pity.

I don't need your pity.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 3:04 PM on November 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

Ok, how does one change to the "has favorites" option? I'm not seeing it in the user prefs.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:23 PM on November 1, 2010

In "website settings" (the first box) there's a "comment favorites style" option.
posted by Kattullus at 4:25 PM on November 1, 2010

[faved +] [!]
posted by idiomatika at 4:30 PM on November 1, 2010

I like favorites and am glad they are still around, as they are still mostly useful for separating wheat from chaff, for posts as much as comments.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:48 PM on November 1, 2010

Hey! Let's publish statistics as to how many users have opted in/out/does not apply! Then the majority can persecute the minority and win!!!
posted by cavalier at 4:51 PM on November 1, 2010

Thanks! That's not as cool as when I found out about "recent activity" or "my ask," but it'll be interesting to have it as "has favorites" for a while.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:52 PM on November 1, 2010

We are not alone: fundamentalists desperately attached to a tiny bit of tradition are everywhere.
There was a dramatic event today at Fark.
posted by bru at 4:57 PM on November 1, 2010

when I hit the little plus sign I think "OH BOY! I like this!"

I am now picturing you saying this in a Ralph Wiggum voice FYI.

Perfect. I use lots of funny voices when I talk. My own voice may or may not be a funny one, I can't tell. If you play me a recording of my own voice, I will shriek with horror. Can't stand it.
posted by sonika at 5:15 PM on November 1, 2010

My fiancee and I have very different Metafilter experiences. She never turned favorite counts back on, I did as soon as possible. She has the standard colors, I display everything in professional white. Her text is 16 pt., mine is a tiny 10 pt. If ever she logs in on my pc I'm overwhelmed by how horrible and wretched her Metafilter settings are. I mean. My god. How can you people live without favorite counts and a professional. white. background?!
posted by Baby_Balrog at 5:27 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Faves are cool. I just wish that they were separate from bookmarks because there are a lot of threads that I favourite because I agree with them and there are some that I want to bookmark to review later, but those get lost in my sea of favourites (I guess I tend to hand them out easily LOL).
posted by 1000monkeys at 5:57 PM on November 1, 2010

Hey, cool, I think that's the first thing that I remember about this site. I just realized that I've been following Metafilter for a year now.
posted by indubitable at 6:35 PM on November 1, 2010

I've kept favorites off. I'm surprised that so many people in this thread are coming out of the woodwork to say that they've done so too.

Favorites are displayed when I read Metafilter on my phone, and I'm always struck by how different the experience is.
posted by painquale at 7:01 PM on November 1, 2010

I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS

I have "has favorites" and I would never go back. I actually read everything and have a healthier relationship with dolling out my favs to others- ie. I don't think about faving comments that have a million (I used to not want to favorite those) and I favorite all the weird kooky shit I want without feeling like a freak. ALSO I didn't realize that I could hover and see the number of favorites until Kattulus commented on it. WHICH I would have never noticed if my favorites were on. Actually I'm kind of sad about that.
posted by janelikes at 7:39 PM on November 1, 2010

ALSO I do NOT have 16pt font and I detest the white professional background.
posted by janelikes at 7:43 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

I use "has favorites", and will occasionally mouse-over a comment's favorite count if I am curious how it's being received but mostly don't do this; I try to always favorite without looking to see the number first, though I'll usually check the number after I favorite something. I find it much nicer than when the numbers were displayed.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:07 PM on November 1, 2010

In case anyone was in any doubt, by the way. I have my favorites fully off. As in, no "has favorites" thing with a mouseover -- I actually have to change my preferences to see favorite counts. And I do that about once every two or three weeks, just out of curiosity, but I always get sort of annoyed and switch it back; I'm just so conscious now of the fact that they're this big social thing, and that they're really driving the conversation in an unnatural way. To be honest, I'm sort of concerned that if I had favorites on I'd spend most of my time trying to shout down the people that get the most, just on principle. So: I keep them off. Less distracting. Better to read what people say.
posted by koeselitz at 9:10 PM on November 1, 2010

Display of favorites is turned all the way off and I think it does make a difference, but I do use favorites to filter through the content. I frequently click on the profiles of a number of users and then go through both lists of their favorites. I find a lot of interesting material this way and I'm introduced to a lot of threads I would have otherwise missed.

PONY REQUEST: Could the preview of the comment on the "Favorites From User X" page be extended by an extra line?
posted by BigSky at 9:23 PM on November 1, 2010

I only read the comments in this thread that had a bunch of favorites. I'm ashamed.
posted by Sassyfras at 9:47 PM on November 1, 2010

I think FishBike should come up with a mystery stat calculation and keep it a secret. Then post monthly TOP TEN MEFITES updates, but with no scores. Then we could all try to reverse-engineer how he came up with that stat so we could commence gaming it.

But more seriously, it would be kind of cool to see "top ten by FABAM6 and top ten by FARM," (no numerical scores) just to kind of gut check the metric out of curiosity. It would be like those tedious annual "top X of the year" lists, only good for arguing with. Fun, though.
posted by ctmf at 9:47 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

The secret metric should involve a huge matrices and math most of us would have to dig out old textbooks to understand, just like Google PageRank.
posted by ctmf at 9:51 PM on November 1, 2010

"We never really figured out what to do with all the qualitative stuff, the answers to various open-ended questions, largely because it just turned out to be so much data to work through..."

HEY DOES ANYONE NEED A DISSERTATION TOPIC???
posted by Jacqueline at 10:00 PM on November 1, 2010

"How can you people live without ... a professional. white. background?!"

The soothing dark gray of MetaTalk helps lull me to sleep at night, whereas websites with white backgrounds are much too bright and keep me awake.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:04 PM on November 1, 2010

Wow. I've never thought about favorites as much as now I feel like I should. I just kind of click the + button as much as I can and hope it'll give me extra lives.

When I write comments I aim for as many favorites as possible, in the sense that I try to make my writing enjoyable to read, even if it's long, and I try not to outright offend people (for the most part, and with colorful exceptions), and I attempt to work in at least three styles of humor per post because I know for some people two just isn't enough. But that's just kind of good netiquette. I do that on Facebook and my STUPID ROTTEN FRIENDS don't like my comments NEARLY enough and ALL THEY CARE ABOUT is when people quote STUPID MOVIES that NOBODY LIKES except for my STUPID FRIEND PETE who gets fifty thumbs up every time he quotes American Beauty SOME PEOPLE UGH

I do have to say, by the way, that using a professional white background is just insane and I feel almost a revulsion at the thought. The noble blue, green, and gray colors are practically what define this site. The soothing blue, the welcoming friendly green, and the stately muted grey practically define the social conventions of the three main sections. And I'm convinced that I don't read Projects much because the color simply doesn't convey to me how that site ought to be used. Why isn't it a majestic, noble red?

(I do keep Comic Sans as my default reading font, though, so maybe that ought to count as a disclaimer.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 10:45 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

tl;dray but I'm not complaining about what they're called, really; I'm grateful to have them because they're so darned handy in a number of ways. I harbor a vague, wistful desire for them to be acknowledged as bookmarks

I suggest favorites be renamed noted. As in "noted by 36 members."
posted by five fresh fish at 11:30 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, if 500 people favorite this comment, I'll eat a bedbug. And film it.

I hate you so much right now.

Now if you promise to eat ALL of them, that's different.
posted by louche mustachio at 11:42 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

We never really figured out what to do with all the qualitative stuff, the answers to various open-ended questions, largely because it just turned out to be so much data to work through, but we'll try to come up with something even if it's just pulling out some of the more interesting responses.

A follow-up survey would be nice too. For instance, I'm genuinely surprised at how many people have kept favorites off, but it may be a vocal minority (and most have kept the status quo). I turned mine off first chance I got and haven't looked back. As Metafilter has grown larger, I do wish that there was a better filtering system within the site, but favorites was never a filter. It was always a popularity contest. I'm sure a few people use it as a bookmarking system (I do), but let's be honest about the majority of comments that are tagged - they're fluff, and this is a voting system.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 4:38 AM on November 2, 2010

What's really weird is that I turned it off in my then avatar and didn't look back but now I find that they're far to easy and frequent to get - someone mentioned this upthread that its become kind of a deflation. Back in the day when I first started (just a n00b in early 2005 ;p) it was HARD to earn a favourite. Now they're pouring out my ears... (not that I'm complaining but does it imply a lower value then? )

*one bean, two beans, three...*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 4:59 AM on November 2, 2010

I have "faves" on Meh Fee.

I actually view favorite counts on Mee Fai.
posted by explosion at 5:04 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh man, it's been a whole year since my husband disabled his account. Probably I should tell him the experiment's over and it's OK to come back.
posted by subbes at 5:27 AM on November 2, 2010

MeFi: the experiment's over and it's OK to come back
posted by The Lady is a designer at 6:11 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think there should be an experiment every November.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:04 AM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

if only to increase my chances of shouting IT'S ALIVE!!
posted by The Whelk at 7:20 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

I know that people do this and it's a totally cromulent use of a favorite... but it still baffles me. You're applying the term "favorite" to something you... disagree? with? Hrm. You and I live in different realities.

Yep, and I also have "friends" on Facebook who are really just acquaintances.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:38 AM on November 2, 2010

More than that. It's awesome to favorite things you totally disagree with. It's fighting the power, it's jamming the culture, it's confusing and confounding people in a constructive way. Favoriting stuff you agree with? Boring, sort of pointless; you're building an echo chamber, since even if you do speak up all you're going to do is say that they're right. If you favorite things you disagree with, it has two effects: first, it strengthens the opposing side, making the discussion far more constructive and useful. Second (and more devious) it confuses the crap out of people, and often softens them a bit to your approach. I'm sometimes damned combative here, which is not always a good thing, and I try to curb it a bit; but contention can be productive, and when it is, I generally favorite people who've argued against me well, both because I enjoy that and because I need it. "Embrace your enemies, and pray for those who curse you." They're precious, sometimes more precious than your friends.
posted by koeselitz at 7:52 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

*hugs koeselitz*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 8:04 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

The best part about favorites is the ability to take them away.
posted by Sailormom at 8:13 AM on November 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

I love favorites. I love them here, and I love other implementations of the same idea on other sites.

But man it BAFFLES me what really stacks up the favorites. I think my most favorited comment is the one about mittens. MITTENS.
posted by KathrynT at 8:16 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

No one can may tell before hand what comments will giveth the favorites and what shall remain fallow.
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

KathrynT: “But man it BAFFLES me what really stacks up the favorites. I think my most favorited comment is the one about mittens. MITTENS.”

Actually, your most favorited comment appears to be this. See here.
posted by koeselitz at 10:26 AM on November 2, 2010

it BAFFLES me what really stacks up the favorites

That's why I like favorites. It's not easy at all to predict what will strike the fancy of the readership. (OK, sometimes it is.)

I like to see the numbers just b/c I like to see the zeitgeist. I am much more likely to favorite something if it doesn't have any, but "has favorites" or "doesn't have favorites" wouldn't interest me at all. (I think I have slight OCD when it comes to numbers.)

The best part about favorites is the ability to take them away.

Funnily enough, I have given out a fudgeload of favorites (~7,000), and I've never taken one away I don't think.

Still, keeping tabs on comments you disagree with feels odd to me

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a bad comment. I disagree with a lot of comments I favorite. I will still favorite them if they are insightful and/or funny.

To me, it's like dog-earing a book, as cortex noted above.

I pay almost zero attention to favourites. I read the words.

Looking at favorite counts and reading words are mutually exclusive?

Favorites are the method most used for shouting people down in mean-spirited shitfests.

I haven't seen this and don't quite get it. How do you "shout someone down" with favorites?

The most recent example of "shouting someone down" I can was probably against Sara C. in the Comedy Central Rally thread. I look at favorite counts and I didn't see favorites at play at all there.

In fact, I would think (hope) that the few favorites Sara C. did receive probably encouraged her to participate further, i.e. one or two high-fives in the face of hundreds against.

No one can may tell before hand what comments will giveth the favorites and what shall remain fallow.

Sure you can. The first 10 comments of any thread have a favorite-inflationary factor of 1.618. It's been proven. Oh wait ...
posted by mrgrimm at 10:34 AM on November 2, 2010

I do have to say, by the way, that using a professional white background is just insane and I feel almost a revulsion at the thought.

Heh. I was just thinking of posting a pony request for a version of all the Metafilters with a white background. (I'm sure others have done so and been heartily mocked.) I don't like the colors (so I just use a zap bookmarklet).

I still use LoFi MeFi.

(Maybe it works for MeTa ... nope.)
posted by mrgrimm at 10:36 AM on November 2, 2010

You can set a white background for all sites in your profile preferences.
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:39 AM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

I can see the arguments of those who forego them making sense if this were a little community bbs with two hundred users, two or three new threads every day, each one generating a dozen or two comments.

But this is the big leagues. I can't imagine that anyone has time to read every post in every thread. For lack of a better mechanism, favo[u]rites steer me to things I would have overlooked. MetaFilter in general is pretty good at opening me up to interesting things I would not have seen otherwise and favorites are at the heart of that. As I said a year ago when the experiment began, I find almost any comment that hits a hundred-plus favorites to be worth reading, whether I agree, disagree, have no opinion, or just laugh aloud. I can think of fifty thought-provoking gems that I would have missed out on totally if I hadn't chanced to see that they had been favorited 187 times or somesuch.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:40 AM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

You can set a white background for all sites in your profile preferences.

Well, thanks. I love it. That saved me an embarrassing post!

I can think of fifty thought-provoking gems that I would have missed out on totally if I hadn't chanced to see that they had been favorited 187 times or somesuch.

Yep. Along with the tracking functionality, the big benefit of favorites for me comes at the high and low levels.

High levels of favorites alert me to interesting stuff from other people.

Low levels of favorites (i.e. 1 favorite on a contentious comment) encourage me (i.e. you're not alone).
posted by mrgrimm at 11:21 AM on November 2, 2010

KathrynT : I think my most favorited comment is the one about mittens. MITTENS.

In fairness though, your mittens comment was a fascinating and wholly unknown fact on a subject that I considered myself very familiar. It completely changed the way I looked at, what might be considered, trivial inconveniences on a battlefield and how important the little stuff can be.

Shorter: it was fucking brilliant.
posted by quin at 11:47 AM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

I only read this thread because hermitosis's comment was on the Popular page. I love the Popular page. I check it every few days to see what sort of randomness I missed that other people are reacting to. I already feel like I spend more time on MeFi than is probably prudent--even though I don't post all that much, and what I do post generally turns out to be embarrassing--and it's like a super-concentrated 'Filter filter. I can't help it; I'm a sociologist at heart and it fascinates me to see how other people react to things 'n stuff. (This is why I listen to podcasts of critics discussing movies I never plan to see, because other people's opinions are like my crack.) IF WE DIDN'T HAVE FAVORITES, THERE WOULDN'T BE A POPULAR-FAVORITES PAGE, AND I WOULD MISS OUT ON THE CRAZYPANTS METAFILTER MEMES. Why would you do that to me, defavers? Why?

Also, I'd like a greasemonkey script that changes them from "favorites" to "Anglos."
posted by kittyprecious at 12:00 PM on November 2, 2010

I live vicariously through my favorites.
posted by stormpooper at 2:12 PM on November 2, 2010

I think it's funny when people take away favourites, especially after a particularly contentious argument and they go back and undo all the favourites they gave you as if it's a punishment of some sort LOL
posted by 1000monkeys at 2:16 PM on November 2, 2010

Shorter: it was fucking brilliant.

Oh, man. *blush* Thank you. I needed that today. (I'm nine months pregnant, I've been having stop-and-go labor for the past three weeks, and I am going just SLIGHTLY mad.)

all actual credit goes to the instructors of the class, though. Nancy Bush and Judith MacKenzie-McCuin are two people who could teach a class in how to boil water, and I would take it, and I would learn something.
posted by KathrynT at 2:19 PM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

*nudges koeselitz aside to give KathrynT a big squeezy hug*

if the doctor says big squeezy ones are okay
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:28 PM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

The midwife says the board is green to launch. I keep having spates of contractions that go on every 4 minutes for, like, a couple of hours. . . and then STOP.

Irritating.
posted by KathrynT at 2:31 PM on November 2, 2010

Will we have a MeTa watch tonight?

(I'm sure it must be very irritating but isn't this one of those things that truly no one knows how or why and when, but to just be zen?)
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:42 PM on November 2, 2010

this has been going on literally for weeks. First they put me on bedrest and drugs to stop it, now. . . it's just dragging on.

Yeah, it's totally one of those things. (Or, as my doula says, "The enmeshment of the physiological and psychological processes of the onset of labor is Not Well Understood.") I am faking a totally blase attitude in the hopes that some of it will stick.
posted by KathrynT at 2:51 PM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ah sorry, I didn't realize/notice you'd said weeks

*hug and glass of appropriate magically herbal tea*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:57 PM on November 2, 2010

See, this is what the grey is for, didn't someone actually do research into this specific "Not Well Understood" area?

Was it an FPP ?

*digs*
posted by The Lady is a designer at 2:59 PM on November 2, 2010

Hang on, I have this trick I try with my wife whenever she gets the hiccups...

*looks casual*

*turns to KathrynT, smiles in a non-threating fashion*

*deep breath*

[wait for it...]

BOO!!

With any luck you are now going into full on labor and my work here is done.
posted by quin at 3:05 PM on November 2, 2010

I think, legally, we get to name the baby.
posted by The Whelk at 6:19 PM on November 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

Aww, man, if I was an obstetrician or a midwife (uh... midhusband? how do you do that?) with a KathrynT kind of patient I would have so much fun with this. I would totally re-enact the chest-burster scene from Alien.
posted by XMLicious at 6:44 PM on November 2, 2010

I actually showed up at a MeetUp seven weeks pregnant wearing an Alien ultrasound shirt.

No, alas, no labor. Just a good nap. And another round of good squinchy contractions that go nowhere! I'm 3 cm dilated and 80% effaced and baby's at a 0 station, and we're just. . . waiting.

XMLicious, "midwife" means "with woman" so you can be a midwife even if you're a dude. It's uncommon, but not unknown.
posted by KathrynT at 7:15 PM on November 2, 2010

8dot3: That thread also birthed some wonderful greasemonkey scripts to either return the favorite count to the status quo, as well as one of my personal favorites, which changes the text from "has favorites" to "has schmavorites".

Aw, shucks. Tweren't nothing.

On my computer, it currently shows as the favorite count between stars. It's sometimes unsettling to browse Mefi without that. The script could also do "favourites," "bookmarks," & "Anglos," or "This comment has N favourites, sir."
posted by Pronoiac at 8:06 PM on November 2, 2010

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