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What to do with out of line comments
April 15, 2003 1:09 AM   Subscribe

WAY outta line. Ideologically speaking, I'm far, far closer to y2karl than I am to the victim of this jibe, but it left an awful taste in my mouth.

This is the kind of thing that makes us all look shallow and vituperative. Outside of the importunement of a heartfelt email (already sent), what venue does the average MeFite have for redress when something like this crops up?
posted by adamgreenfield to Etiquette/Policy at 1:09 AM (79 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Did you put it in context with the comment that it directly referenced, using the exact same semi-offensive terminology? I thought it a relatively common redirect, from Steve's accusation that the links to other 'filter" sites were a "CircleJerk", to y2's characterization of Steve as the "Jerk" for making the itself-offtopic comment.

Nothing on either side rising to the level of a MetaTalk call-out to me. So why am I wasting my time on THIS? Nevermind.
posted by wendell at 1:28 AM on April 15, 2003


what venue does the average MeFite have for redress when something like this crops up?

Email, and that about covers it. Then, of course, there's MetaTalk.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 1:50 AM on April 15, 2003


Nothing on either side rising to the level of a MetaTalk call-out to me.

I've noticed y2karl chasing s@l through threads like some kind of metahighlander. Maybe it's time this stopped?
posted by eddydamascene at 2:58 AM on April 15, 2003


My current animus comes from the now deleted MetaTalk thread where he complained about TheJesseHelms using in line images. fold_&_mutilate came late to the fray and pointed out that he had tracked him down and copied a jpg of his picture and posted it to MetaFilter, which was deleted by Matt, at f&m's behest, I am sure.

As it turns out, f&m once posted his initials and home address in a comment, so there wasn't any super internet stalking required. S@L merely traced him to where he either worked or went to his medical school and copied the picture, made some cute alterations, which he put up on his weblog and then linked to in the soon deleted MetaFilter comment he made. It was creepy obsessive to trace f&m to a picture and creepy obsessive to photoshop it and then post it.

f&m pointed this out in S@L's
Complaining About TheJesseHelms Use of Inline Images thread, calling it hypocritical in light of his experience with S@L--to which S&L responded by mocking him by his first name and mentioning where he found the picture, neither of which are on f&m's user page nor were in the comment he made with his initials, last name and address.

S&L also insisted it was he who had Matt remove the offending image--to which f&m replied and said essentially, 'No way, it was removed by Matt at my request and you dropped it from your site thereafter.' Pardon the excessive details but there is a point to this.

All this is anecdotal save for this next.

I wrote and complained to Matt about S@L's and then Karl's mocking f&m by name in the thread--Karl picking it up from Steve's taunts--and Matt wrote back. This is his email responding to mine:

"On 4/8/03 5:05 PM, "y2karl @capitolhill.net"
wrote:
> Is it cool to out anonymous members? Steve has
>given away f&m's indentity. I don't think that is
>cool. Is it allowed? Has this sort of thing come up
>before?


That sucks, and I told Steve to cut it out before. I
removed the images in the past, but it's unfortunate
that steve had to go and do this to f&m.

I'll send an email to steve.

Matt "


My assumption is that Matt wrote him. The thread was gone the next day--which was unfortunate in that the amount of people who called Steve out on it was lengthy and even featured a group hug between f&m and hama7, after the latter scolded me for something I'd already copped to--teasing and taunting hama7 by referring to his site, something only he would get--not nice but not revealing.

Steve slulked away for a few days and then came back-- I put the question to him as to whether he thought it
was right to post someone's name and personal information. He sent me several blistering emails and flatly denied ever hearing from Matt.

"You prick. No Matt didn't write to me and "tell me
to knock it off" "

I don't know, maybe Matt didn't, all though that he said he would makes it odds on likely he did--but it was all of a piece.

f&m wrote me and said this:

"He lied repeatedly to me and others about the circumstances surrounding his dumb little stunt. I wouldn't even have gotten exercised myself, were it not for his little hypocrisy about image tags, and if he hadn't told me in an email to tone down my posts because now people knew who I was and there were a lot of "nuts" on the internet."

I'm not making excuses for myself here, just giving the background. It was sleazy of him to look up f&m and post the picture, despicable to mock him by name and reveal his employer for all to read. I mean, come on now, may be not f&m has to worry specifically, but that's the sort of thing that can have real consequences, get people in trouble at work, harassed online--which takes it out of the merely theoretical.

My experience is he lies about his behavior, specifically in relation to the now gone MetaTalk thread, but also in the past. And I don't know what to say about what f&m wrote re Steve's little insinuation but I don't find it at all unbelievable.

I've called him out and called him names. He's gone a bit farther than that with f&m. I committed an insult. He omits mentioning and avoids responsibility for something far worse. It's simply inexcusable to reveal, from malice, private information about a member on a community site without their permmission.

So save some disprespect for him.

---------- Original Message -------------------------------
From: Adam Greenfield
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:06:03 +0900

I don't like him any better than you do, karl, but
that last post was WAY out of line. You've gotten *really* personal lately on the 'Filter, and I guess I'd have to say it's causing me to lose respect for you.

Please, please think twice about posting this kind of
thing in the future.

yrs. in sincerity,
a.
tokyo


I certainly am no angel and my hands are not clean but now that I have posted this, I will leave the little creep alone. If he wants to mount a rationale for posting personal information about a member without that member's permission, fine. If he doesn't, fine. I make no excuses for myself, I merely mention all this to point out this didn't happen in a vacuum.
posted by y2karl at 3:17 AM on April 15, 2003


The preceding was my reply to adamgreenfield's email. So consider it stopped.
posted by y2karl at 3:18 AM on April 15, 2003


Wow, it worked! Cool!
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:20 AM on April 15, 2003


Now THAT was fun to read! ;-P
posted by mischief at 4:22 AM on April 15, 2003


Goodness gracious! I defy anyone to top that episode of "As the Mefi Turns".

BTW, is writing slash fiction using Mefites libel or do we count as public figures?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:50 AM on April 15, 2003


Ack! That came out wrong! I am in no way, shape, or form insinuating that y2karl's e-mail above is fiction. Let's just say that in my world y'all get along much better...
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:59 AM on April 15, 2003


steve@ has a cute dog.
posted by quonsar at 5:24 AM on April 15, 2003


Pink, I'm looking forward to your slash fiction of MetaFilter. Should we have a seperate slash fiction category on MetaTalk?
posted by sebas at 5:45 AM on April 15, 2003


"Quonsar looked askance at the dog, whose pleading eyes were a distraction, in this time when no distraction would do.

"'Would you stroke my tail,' said PinkStainlessTail, whose slithering member presented itself suddenly, sensually...'"


-From a pre-release draft of the upcoming "Unbearable Lightness of FishFucker," coming soon to a GeoCities site near you!
posted by kaibutsu at 5:51 AM on April 15, 2003


My writings also answer the question "Are Carlos and Miguel the same person?"

Definitely not.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:58 AM on April 15, 2003


Such a well-intentioned thread, committed in the interest of fairness for all and a higher level of polite discourse on Mefi, successful and with a happy ending. And yet, the thread defended S@L, despite his recent behavior.

I am completely torn. Kind of like when improper search-and-seizure results in a killer going free. But hey, the system must be fair!

Then again:

y2karl chasing s@l through threads like some kind of metahighlander

It was all worth it for that image.

Y2, I've been a little too vindictive lately as well. The readers like it better when you make asinine jokes, despite the MetaCops frothing at the mouth : )
posted by Shane at 6:19 AM on April 15, 2003


"There can be only one."
LOL!

posted by Shane at 6:21 AM on April 15, 2003


TNN is showing Highlander the Series now. Thought I would share.
posted by bargle at 6:35 AM on April 15, 2003


http://slash.metafilter.com here we come go.
posted by quonsar at 7:22 AM on April 15, 2003


My question, is if you didn't check with Matt or f&m, is it any better for y2karl to post the e-mails for all to see? I ask this because I consider my e-mails more private than my own name or phone number and would be pissed if someone started to post any of my e-mails on a public forum (hence why I would e-mail and not post here, or am I just in the minority in that regard?).
posted by jmd82 at 7:53 AM on April 15, 2003


what venue does the average MeFite have for redress when something like this crops up?

MetaFilter DeathMatch, of course (the Supreme Court will always vote 5-4 in favor of Stalker@Linnwood, so what else can you do)
posted by matteo at 7:59 AM on April 15, 2003


Under ordinary circumstances, I'd be hell of steamed. In context, it achieved the desired end, so I'll let it slide.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:00 AM on April 15, 2003


*programs TiVo to record Highlander the Series*
posted by Galvatron at 8:42 AM on April 15, 2003


steve@ has a cute dog.

How do you know it's really cute, quonsar? Maybe he just Photoshopped an ugly dog.
posted by timeistight at 8:45 AM on April 15, 2003


I'd be hell of steamed

Is this a back formation from "hella"? What's the etymology of "hella"? Someone help me out.
posted by MarkAnd at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2003


hella
posted by thatweirdguy2 at 9:00 AM on April 15, 2003


Nice link, weirdguy. Now I'll get hella no work done today.
posted by some chick at 9:04 AM on April 15, 2003


After reading comments Thom...Slulked(sic) away.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:27 AM on April 15, 2003


This thread is hella lame, guys.
I'm not fat, I'm big boned!
Omigod! They killed Thomcat! You bastards!
Screw you guys. I'm goin' home!
posted by ZachsMind at 9:59 AM on April 15, 2003


steve@ has a cute dog. Mark Fuhrman admits to crying at that talking pig movie.
Chairman Mao was a lovely bloke.

Bleh.
posted by dash_slot- at 10:47 AM on April 15, 2003


Every MeTa thread turns out to have some value, even if it veers wildly from the original post's intent.

See, because of this thread, I have an imaged burned into my brain of some hot Miguel-on-Carlos action.

And something about a dog, as well.

Thanks, you guys.
posted by padraigin at 10:47 AM on April 15, 2003


Hmmm. So y2karl was badgering S@L for something that was done to F&M? I don't get it. Not the part about y2karl badgering someone, that's normal. What I don't get is what that has to do with what went on between S@L and F&M.

Did I miss the memo about y2karl being responsible for exacting justice on behalf of other MeFites?
posted by eyeballkid at 11:09 AM on April 15, 2003


I was tempted to say "JerkFilter" myself, though I didn't. I have no point.
posted by sudama at 11:18 AM on April 15, 2003


First off, the photo of fold_&_mutilate I posted, which y2karl seems to have his 'knickers in a twist' about, was removed at my request. Keith emailed Matt pretending to not be fold_&_mutilate, so Matt, not knowing what to make of it, came to #mefi to ask me about it. I explained the situation and he said that while he found it amusing, it was highly inappropriate. Since he felt this way, I asked him to remove the image and I agreed not to do it again. This is not hypocritical, since my issue was not with TJH's occasional uses of the IMG tag or even the content, but the fact that he was doing over and over again. Every once and a while the use of images is amusing and can be used to make a point, but it seemed to be daily event.

Matt did not email me about that MeTa thread and I did not "skulk away for a few days" as y2karl puts it. I can not speak for y2karl, but I sometimes have other things to do than read the Metafilter, so I will often go a day or two with out reading or commenting. Just because I do not want to engage in a flamewar with y2karl, does not mean I "skulked" away.

I do find it amusing that y2karl edits our email exchange down to that and leaves out the curse ridden and derogatory emails he sent me that started this silly foray. y2karl seems to have some sort of issue with me, as he seems to latch on to any issue that he thinks he can use to harass me.

He found out that it was no fun to harass me via email, since I would not 'play along', so he took this fixation with me to Metafilter, where he knew he would have an audience. He knew that if he left little off-topic snipes here and there, someone would wonder what the hell he was doing. And guess what? Someone noticed! Adamgreenfield, as much as I appreciate your desire to end this behavior, you have played right in to y2karl's hand. He now has a whole MetaTalk thread were everyone who dislikes me can pile on. He can again air his supposed grievances (which I still do not understand, especially how this spat between me and  fold_&_mutilate involves him) in a public forum, where he is the center of attention. So congratulations y2karl, your plan worked brilliantly.

Well, everyone have fun...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:23 AM on April 15, 2003


Steve_at_Linnwood: please stop using fold_and_mutilate's real name. Please!

y2karl: please resist the urge to badger Steve_at_Linnwood. I know he should apologize, but I don't think he will.

Everyone already knows what everyone else thinks about this debacle, so let's try to move on, eh?
posted by timeistight at 11:35 AM on April 15, 2003


Let's agree to act like adults and I won't have to delete this thread too. Agreed?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:42 AM on April 15, 2003


DON"T MAKE MATT STOP THIS CAR!
posted by machaus at 12:01 PM on April 15, 2003


MeTimeOut
posted by Stan Chin at 12:08 PM on April 15, 2003 [1 favorite]


Goddamn kids.
posted by MrBaliHai at 12:09 PM on April 15, 2003


what's "vituperative" mean?
posted by victors at 12:13 PM on April 15, 2003


vituperative
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:14 PM on April 15, 2003


Mommy! Stan Chin's on my side of the site!
posted by Cyrano at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2003


One gold star goes next to Stan Chin's name. See how it works kids? You do good, you get a gold star. You do bad, you go into the corner.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2003 [1 favorite]


Stan Chin: That's monitor-splatteringly hilarious!

S@L: "curse ridden and derogatory emails" - don't make me laugh. Look at your own words: that's what 'irony' means!#

Maybe y2Karl had no other option than to pursue you here, because you cannot own up to your own mistakes - a mark of maturity, if you ask me. You have a reputation now, Steve: but it can evolve, and be reclaimed.

It's all up to you, really.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2003


GROW UP.
posted by angry modem at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2003


How hard can it be to say, "yeah, MetaStalking is not very cool, my little joke was only meant to fuck with a user I happily hate and I didn't mean to cause him any trouble at work, I'm sorry, won't happen again, no big deal".
It's not that hard, really.


which I still do not understand, especially how this spat between me and fold_&_mutilate involves him

because it's not a spat, it's a possible breach of the etiquette and the rules of a community you chose to join.
just like when you throw one of your little tantrums and start screaming fuck you's in all caps, it's not a spat -- you are actually breaking rules of this community
But I understand that accusing the vast, y2karl-led commie conspiracy against you is much easier than admitting a little, unpleasant mistake

and now excuse me, I have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to eat, and homework to do before mom lets me play with the PS2
posted by matteo at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2003


(sidenote re: I ask this because I consider my e-mails more private than my own name or phone number -- Letters you send to someone may be construed as being property of the recipient. You are also due for a potentially very rude awakening. Did you miss this?)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2003


Yeah, boy, I have really spilled some private secrets here.

As for the curse ridden--where does he get his rhetoric, the Readers Digest?--and derogatory correspondence, well, he wrote me first, he cursed and I derogated. Mea culpa.
posted by y2karl at 1:24 PM on April 15, 2003


Can we stop spanking Steve_at_Linnwood now, or do all 17146 of us need a turn?
posted by timeistight at 1:32 PM on April 15, 2003


That gold star is rad. Let's beat up Stan and take it from him!
posted by eyeballkid at 1:37 PM on April 15, 2003


17145 of us, TT. Otherwise it would just be weird.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 1:38 PM on April 15, 2003


If I behave, do I get a gold star too?
posted by riffola at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2003


Well, everyone have fun...

I get the impression he enjoys the spankings!
posted by dash_slot- at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2003


Matt, why do I have a brown star?
posted by Vidiot at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2003


I think both y2karl and steve_at need a spanking, but I guess in these permissive times a MeTimeOut will have to do. But I'm glad this thread exists, because it prompted thatweirdguy2 to post that great paper on "hella." twg2, I'm blogging that sucker!
posted by languagehat at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2003


Look again, Yelling At Nothing.
posted by timeistight at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2003


Wow. This is much more addictive than Metafilter.
posted by mokey at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2003


Oh, I get it now. Well there's no reason Steve should get a turn, too. Fair is fair.
posted by timeistight at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2003


Syntactically, HELLA is a hella specifier of the Intensifier category, a hella more generalized intensifier than previously documented in English.

The hella you say, language hat.
posted by y2karl at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2003


Matt, why do I have a brown star?.
Vidiot, it's not brown, just burnt-out.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:07 PM on April 15, 2003


I think Steve needs a hella spanking, and I don't want to give up my turn, but I'm worried about losing any future gold stars. So I won't say anything at all.
posted by soyjoy at 2:37 PM on April 15, 2003


oops.
posted by soyjoy at 2:37 PM on April 15, 2003


A quick search for "spanking" at the Guinness World Records site comes up with nada.

This might be our chance to leave our mark! (Figuratively and, depending on who's to my right and left, literally.)
posted by Cyrano at 2:46 PM on April 15, 2003


This is sweet. And when I say sweet, I mean totally fuckin' rad.

[beats up eyeballkid for star]

mathowie: Since when did janitors get to give out the gold stars?!
posted by i_cola at 2:53 PM on April 15, 2003


"But I'm glad this thread exists, because it prompted thatweirdguy2 to post that great paper on "hella.""

Nah, thatweirdguy2 hella blew it. MarkAnd requested the etymology of 'hella', not its usage.
posted by dgaicun at 3:40 PM on April 15, 2003


Wow. This is much more addictive than Metafilter.

pssst. don't tell anyone - but the only reason Metafilter exists is to make fodder for Metatalk.
posted by deborah at 4:19 PM on April 15, 2003


here go gathering nuts in May, nuts in May, nuts in May. Here we go gathering nuts in May, so er-lye in the morn-ing!
posted by crunchland at 4:33 PM on April 15, 2003


I am not going to rest until I do something that earns me one of them gold stars,
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:12 PM on April 15, 2003


You people worry me.
posted by elwoodwiles at 5:19 PM on April 15, 2003


Joey Michaels - You could post a photograph of Matt - one in which he's to die for handsome, like this one. And then you could say something like...

Matt, you are to-die-for-handsome. And nice. And very clever. You're the tops. Really.

Maybe that would work...I dunno.
posted by iconomy at 5:21 PM on April 15, 2003


Nah, thatweirdguy2 hella blew it. MarkAnd requested the etymology of 'hella', not its usage.

Hella sorry, dg. Read through this old thread...
posted by thatweirdguy2 at 6:23 PM on April 15, 2003


Joey Michaels
elwoodwiles
iconomy
posted by eddydamascene at 6:57 PM on April 15, 2003


He now has a whole MetaTalk thread were everyone who dislikes me can pile on.

I like you.
posted by Witty at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2003


Yeah, I was curious about the etymology of hella because, while it seems to be used now like "totally" or "very," it appears to be related to "hell of a" or "helluva." "Hell of," though, seems to exist as a kind of backformation. I've heard a couple of people say "hell of," including someone today who admitted to saying it when I told her I'd just seen it somewhere. That hella squib was interesting though, thatweirdguy2. Thanks.
posted by MarkAnd at 9:25 PM on April 15, 2003


"Hell of" was very consciously a backformation, yes, an attempt to imagine how "hella" evolved. (If I'm correct, "hella" was an East Bay/"white trash"/hesher thing originally.)

S@L, this is not about piling on in the slightest, though I find your perspective perhaps more illuminating than you had intended.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:59 PM on April 15, 2003


Beware the star. Star bellied sneeches had bellies with stars.
posted by hot soup girl at 11:33 PM on April 15, 2003


Oh, ignore everything after the Seuss. I didn't realise it was an introduction to an *ahem* sermon.
posted by hot soup girl at 11:35 PM on April 15, 2003


i_cola

Bitchin' ;-)
posted by i_cola at 6:11 AM on April 16, 2003


i_cola

OK, I'm done now...
posted by i_cola at 6:12 AM on April 16, 2003


Thanks Thatweirdguy2!

Yet, the 'hella' mystery continues on. . .
posted by dgaicun at 6:27 AM on April 16, 2003


Oh, just for the record:

From Necessary E-mail Etiquette *--

Don't reveal personal information about other people:
Talking about other people's personal lives in cyberspace is a bit like writing that information on a bathroom wall (ok, an exaggerated analogy, but there are some relevant similarities.)


* It's new to me but certainly a page I am finding most instructive
posted by y2karl at 5:37 AM on April 20, 2003


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