So-and-so is a Muslim not okay

November 11, 2004 7:58 PM

So-and-so is a Muslim

Ah, I see, so political posts aren't ok, but transparent HATE MOCKERY is. Damn you mr_crash_davis. Damn you to hell.
posted by Pretty_Generic to Etiquette/Policy at 7:58 PM (56 comments total)

I am very offended.
posted by angry modem at 7:59 PM on November 11, 2004

Are you suggesting that a single man might not enjoy a copy of Flight Simulator just because he's Arabic? What are you, racist?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:00 PM on November 11, 2004

Can I make a mockery out of hate, too?
posted by five fresh fish at 8:04 PM on November 11, 2004

Five Fresh Fish molests collies.

You SEE?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 8:10 PM on November 11, 2004

As a young arab man myself, I am completely stunned and amazed (some might say shocked and awed) at this display of blatent anti-me-ism.
And to think I was just getting comfortable here in this community. And now... now it's just a community of hate.
posted by Inkoate at 8:10 PM on November 11, 2004

We love the hater and hate the lover.

Such is life.
posted by neckro23 at 8:12 PM on November 11, 2004

lol. just lol.
posted by naxosaxur at 8:16 PM on November 11, 2004

He should bum for this.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 8:17 PM on November 11, 2004

That should be "burn". DAMN YOU VERDANA!
posted by Pretty_Generic at 8:17 PM on November 11, 2004

no.no. he should BUM for this!! hehe
posted by bob sarabia at 8:23 PM on November 11, 2004

Oh, snap!
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:24 PM on November 11, 2004

Hey, dude... space a flight simulator? I'm trying to get back to Provo....
posted by interrobang at 8:25 PM on November 11, 2004

That wasn't very cool.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:25 PM on November 11, 2004

...should read "spare"
posted by interrobang at 8:26 PM on November 11, 2004

Sure Interrobang. 1.8 gigs of it.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:36 PM on November 11, 2004

*Shakes MetaFilter like an Etch-a-Sketch, erases last few days*
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:37 PM on November 11, 2004

Oh it's perfectly natural to joke about such things
posted by holloway at 8:46 PM on November 11, 2004

Thanks, Keyser, but I actually really wanted some money to buy some sweet, sweet box-wine.
posted by interrobang at 8:48 PM on November 11, 2004

sorry, no box-wine 4 u
posted by bob sarabia at 9:25 PM on November 11, 2004

that's fucked up, yo.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:42 PM on November 11, 2004

Yeah it is.
posted by interrobang at 9:47 PM on November 11, 2004

That #mefi IRC has a lot to answer for...
posted by dash_slot- at 9:58 PM on November 11, 2004

Generosity is the new Gay.
posted by dhoyt at 10:03 PM on November 11, 2004

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing it.

The "problem" question seems earnest to me and a good one.

Would someone mind passing me a clue? And to think, I watched CSI tonight and didn't learn a damned thing. Except not to fake my own abduction.
posted by fenriq at 10:51 PM on November 11, 2004

Matt deleted the (tasteless) comment in question, fenriq.
posted by Galvatron at 10:59 PM on November 11, 2004

tbh, if it wasn't for the possibiity that it was gonna be picked up by small fetid ovaloid wingnuts, I thought it was just very off-colour. You know, "comedy = tragedy + time"? Or is it "tragedy = me with a papercut; comedy = you with a neckbrace"?

Meh, whatever. Down the memory hole with it.
posted by dash_slot- at 11:06 PM on November 11, 2004

Did I miss the part where Turtle said the fellow was an Arab?
posted by coelecanth at 1:26 AM on November 12, 2004

No, apparently mr_crash missed the part in his Comparative Religion class where they taught him that there were hundreds of millions of Muslims all over the world.

Having said that, the gardien of an apartment building in Paris is about 90% likely to be Algerian or Moroccan.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:23 AM on November 12, 2004

anti-me-ism.

Love that.
posted by xmutex at 8:48 AM on November 12, 2004

I love a good un-PC joke as much as the next man, I really do, but I find racist jokes about Arabs a little problematic right now, due to the ALL OUT CULTURE WAR that is going on. I mean, sure, we could all slap our knees and say "good one, crash!" and know in our hearts that he's not REALLY a racist. But when 51% of the country does actually believe that all Muslims are terrorists, that benefit of the doubt is harder to come by, and the joke just isn't that funny.
posted by scarabic at 9:50 AM on November 12, 2004

Ahh, so I did miss something. Thanks for letting me know, Galvatron.

Okay then. I'll just mosey off to the Blue and see what's happening there.
posted by fenriq at 9:54 AM on November 12, 2004

And to think, I watched CSI tonight and didn't learn a damned thing. Except not to fake my own abduction.

And that darned Arafat pre-empted the conclusion of the freakin' mystery show. I wasn't anti-palestine before, but after that one last intolerable act of video aggression, I'm throwing my hat in with the security moms.

(some things are just too sacred to mess with, new CSI episodes being in the top 5)
posted by milovoo at 10:18 AM on November 12, 2004

Oh ... and was that a whole episode without Sara? The day shift woman is cool and all, but Sara is the nerdy underdog, and that's why she's cool.

oops, sorry, were you guys still going to argue about racial stuff?

I'll go find a CSI fan board ...
posted by milovoo at 10:22 AM on November 12, 2004

But when 51% of the country does actually believe that all Muslims are terrorists

C'mon, scarabic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:47 AM on November 12, 2004

Not 51%, but many more than should, including soi-disant pundits who should know better.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:25 PM on November 12, 2004

Conversation my brother had on the airplane when he came up to visit recently:

Old Lady in Next Seat: "I voted for Bush because of all the Islamics. They just want to kill us. They're taught to hate us from an early age. Every last one of 'em! We oughtta nuke the whole place!"

My Brother: "Well, you're talking about millions and millions of people. Certainly they're not all alike."

Old Lady: [scowls at him] "You're not one of those Islamics, are you?

And this was an old church lady flying to a choir singing competition. It's anecdotal, but respectfully, dhoyt, you can lick 51% of my nutsack.
posted by scarabic at 2:44 PM on November 12, 2004

So this one bigot made you conclude that 51% of the american electorate believes all Muslims are terrorists? Aren't you doing exactly the same thing as she is?
posted by timeistight at 3:09 PM on November 12, 2004

Arafat pre-empted the conclusion of the freakin' mystery show
iirc the episode will be re-shown Saturday night.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:26 PM on November 12, 2004

Timeistight, I hear that shit every single day... and I work in Santa Monica. It may not be 51% but it's close. Look at the support of the Iraq war-- a huge factor in people who supported the war was racism/anger against Muslims/Arabs.
posted by cell divide at 4:39 PM on November 12, 2004

no, timestight - please refer to the disclaimer "It's anecdotal" - you know what that means, right?

Anyone else who wants to nickle and dime me over what percentage of Americans have an Arab problem can tongue the other 49% of my nutsack. Personally, I think I'm being generous when I say that it's only about half the country.
posted by scarabic at 5:16 PM on November 12, 2004

I'd really rather not, if it's all the same to you. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

So if the old lady had said, "It's anecdotal, but I've been told that all the Islamics want to kill us," that would be alright by you?
posted by timeistight at 6:59 PM on November 12, 2004

Can we PLEASE not wrangle about exactly how many Americans think that all Muslims are Scary Terrorists?

Because as long as the number is >0, we've got a problem as far as I'm concerned.

I would be happy if we could stamp that particular fallacy out among those who have regularly-broadcast television and radio programs, if in no other segment of the US population.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:13 PM on November 12, 2004

"I voted for Bush because of all the Islamics. They just want to kill us. They're taught to hate us from an early age. Every last one of 'em! We oughtta nuke the whole place!"

Ah, what a winning mindset: they hate us and want to kill us, so I'll hate them and want to kill them.

Nothing can go wrong there.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:15 PM on November 12, 2004

So if the old lady had said, "It's anecdotal, but I've been told that all the Islamics want to kill us," that would be alright by you?

I don't understand what that means. You can't say make a generalization and then qualify it as anecdotal. You can only offer an anecdote, and note that, because it's anecdotal, it can't be taken as a generalization. She made a generalization. I told the anecdote. She's a raving lunatic, and my nutsack is clean now, thank you.

My point with the anecdote wasn't to prove statistically that Arabs are widely hated. My point was to illustrate an example of how pedestrian Arab-hating has become. It's no longer just for the flag-waving neo-nazi gun-nuts down in Alabama. It's quite mainstream, even misperceived as patriotic.

I really like the red-scare-esque element of paranoia in the last line of that little story. OMFG - are you one of THEM??? Arabs & Muslims are the official boogeymen of the nation right now. They've taken their place with the Japs and the Krauts and the Reds, Commies, Niggers as a category of people perceived to be conspiring to threaten our fine nation, poisoning it from within as well as attacking it from without.
posted by scarabic at 8:18 PM on November 12, 2004

But when 51% of the country does actually believe that all Muslims are terrorists, that benefit of the doubt is harder to come by, and the joke just isn't that funny.

So the "51%" in your statement was just an arbitrary, out-of-thin-air figure, completely unrelated to any recent events?
posted by timeistight at 8:27 PM on November 12, 2004

They've taken their place with the Japs and the Krauts and the Reds, Commies, Niggers as a category of people perceived to be conspiring to threaten our fine nation

America: Land of the Scared.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:02 AM on November 13, 2004

TIMEISTIGHT, you WIN! You've pointed out to everyone that scarabic was just indulging in hyperbole!!!!

Also, scarabic's car, which he referred to as a "piece of shit", is not actually made out of feces; scarabic's significant other, whom he calls a "babe", is not actually an infant; and when scarabic "takes a crap", he's actually leaving it in the toilet.

That wacky scarabic!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:19 PM on November 13, 2004

scarabic... as an admitted fan of your contributions to this forum, I have to tell you that your comments in this thread are the just stupid. You have a problem with 51% of Americans hating all Muslims (a "statistic" based on a question never asked), believing I assume, that such feelings, opinions and mind-sets are completely absurd and unfounded. Yet, I also assume, that it would be perfectly reasonable to you that 51% of all Muslims, probably more, hate all Americans. Am I wrong?

How about if I just hate 51% of all Muslims, since I've been automatically lumped into your sample group by default. Is that cool? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I hate 51% of everybody anyway.
posted by Witty at 11:07 AM on November 14, 2004

Oh, it was hyperbole! So when scarabic says that he knows 51% of americans think all muslims are terrorists because his brother met a Bush supporter who believed that, he's not really saying that the 51% of the electorate who voted for Bush believes that, despite the similarity of the percentage? I think I finally get it.

Could someone explain to me, in non-hyperbolic terms that even I can understand, what is he really saying?
posted by timeistight at 11:16 AM on November 14, 2004

Are you baiting or masturbating at this point, timestight? You really really want me to come out and say something you think I mean, and I'm just standing here scratching my head. You've hounded me over several days trying to precipitate a fight over it. I think I finally get it too, and the problem is you're too much of a cleverdick to come right out and just ask: "What are you saying? That all Bush-voters are Arab-haters?" That would have done the job just fine about 5 comments back.

Are you surprised to hear me say that certain lefties are some of the biggest ethnocentrist Arab-haters out there? Progressives can be very condemnatory toward Arab and Muslim cultures, judging them as sexist, violent, clerical, anti-gay and luddite, often with very little knowledge to go on. NEWZ FLASH. There is no Republican monopoly on hating Arabs and Muslims. The average blue-state dweller doesn't have a clue about the Middle East. And plenty of right-leaning folks in the US are good-hearted folk who've learned long and hard that racism sucks big time.

I'm really sorry that you want to insist that "51%" means "the Bush voters," but in reality, it is equivalent to saying "most," or "slightly more than half." It's shorthand for "enough to call a majority," not shorthand for "Republicans." In legalese it's common terminology for "a controlling share," and in a legislative context it's what they call a "simple majority." It's the tipping point at which a plurality suddenly becomes a dominant force. It's the hymen of Democracy. Break it and you're in. My point: it's an interesting, figuratively useful and powerful number, not just an Ohio statistic.

Now there's the question of overlapping populations of similar sizes. Most Americans (who voted) voted for Bush. That doesn't mean that anyone who makes any generalization along the lines of "Most Americans like coffee" is REALLY saying "Bush Voters like coffee." 51% of Americans are women. Does that mean all women voted for Bush!!?? Uh, no. You get that, right? Or is it over your head? I know the statistics math can be hard to follow.

As for your effort to trap me into making the statement "EVERYBODY WHO VOTED FOR BUSH IS A RACIST" all I have to say in simple, non-hyperbolic terms (which I sincerely hope you understand) is: fuck you. I didn't say that. The conversation didn't go there. I'm not stupid enough to think that thought, let alone speak it. And if I HAD spoken it, I'd thank you for correcting me. But all I can thank you for here is a tireless efforts to expose an opinion I didn't speak and don't hold. I could say a lot about what I think a vote for Bush symbolizes after this whole Iraq war, but that's a different conversation.

So let me try again: there is an Arab / Muslim fear/hate problem amongst many Americans, probably more than half of them. I am not the numbers man on all these issues, though, so please don't take my fucking MeFi comments as some kind of dissertation on the subject.

DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU, SIR???

Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by scarabic at 11:19 PM on November 14, 2004

the problem is you're too much of a cleverdick to come right out and just ask: "What are you saying? That all Bush-voters are Arab-haters?"

I thought that's what I was asking. I obviously need to simplify my message.

Thank you for your clarification. I doubt if I was the only one who misconstrued your meaning.

fuck you.

scarabic, I'm sorry: I just don't think of you that way and I'm afraid sex would ruin our friendship.

Try not to be too upset.
posted by timeistight at 9:24 AM on November 15, 2004

I doubt if I was the only one who misconstrued your meaning.

No, you're just the only one who willfully ascribed a really nasty interpretation of it to me and sat here pissing yourself until you got 500 words from me on the subject.
posted by scarabic at 10:35 AM on November 15, 2004

It should be obvious by now, but I really don't like having words put in my mouth.
posted by scarabic at 10:36 AM on November 15, 2004

You're saying that over half of your countrymen are ignorant bigots. What would have been a really nice interpretation of your statement?
posted by timeistight at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2004

I am saying that and I'll say it again. I'm just not stupid enough to pretend that it falls on party lines. That would mean, for example, that Jerry Kindall is an ignorant bigot (he voted for Bush), and nothing could be further from the truth. The nice interpretation is that I'm not a moron with a completely radical and shallow view of the electorate.

Anyway........
posted by scarabic at 10:55 AM on November 15, 2004

I'd just like to mention that 51% of MeFites are over in the Brazilian wax thread, which is a lot more fun.
posted by taz at 7:01 PM on November 15, 2004