kittyfilter! cutest of the web!

August 5, 2006 12:42 AM

Ok, please. a third KittyFilter YouTube FPP. Come on. [more inside]
posted by spiderwire to Feature Requests at 12:42 AM (37 comments total)

Now, I hate YouTube as much as many people here, but we're obviously not getting rid of it, but it's causing a proliferation of meaningless one-line posts -- didn't we used to have some sort of social norm discouraging contextless posts? Cute kitties are not the best of the web. If I want those, I have Cute Overload.

Since the YT links aren't gonna get banned and they're useful amidst better posts, like wikipedia, could we consider maybe a MiniFilter subMeFi, where people can post all their one-offs, and "oh-isn't-this-cute"s? Maybe some of the NewsFilter stuff could go there as well? I don't see how YouTube links are any different from quality WikiPedia links -- in fact probably less informative -- yet I don't think one-off WikiPedia links should/would be tolerated.

Or is there another compromise where we can separate the signal and the noise just a bit?
posted by spiderwire at 12:43 AM on August 5, 2006

didn't we used to have some sort of social norm discouraging contextless posts?

It doesn't exactly need context. I mean, you don't exactly get anything unexpected here.

A one-line FPP is intrinsically less noise on the front page.
posted by delmoi at 1:23 AM on August 5, 2006

With regards to the kitty post, I will say only this: If you're going to make an FPP, please do a tag search with the tags you plan on using. Had the poster looked at the fatboyslim or kitten tags, he or she would have seen that the post was a double.

One minute of time on the part of each one of us as we are about to post a thread will save many minutes of dealing with angry double-post one-link-youtube-filter callouts here in MeTa.

And to spiderwire: it's been said a million times, but I'll say it again. Don't like youtube? Don't click the link! Even with this $30 bounty for the best post each day that we have going now, there simply aren't so many threads posted that each doesn't get more than enough time on the front page, so what's the big deal?
posted by joshuaconner at 1:24 AM on August 5, 2006

I thought the place for all that stuff was at MetaChat?

I have to admit though, these people who continually post pictures or links to cats are a bit kooky. It's like there is a disconnect somewhere in the grey matter where the person doesn't realise not everyone is impressed by pictures of their cat.
posted by Funmonkey1 at 1:28 AM on August 5, 2006

Shoot, even a regular search would work; one of the older FPP's of the "Joker" video showed up as #7 when I searched for fatboy slim, and #28 when I searched for kittens. When I searched for fatboy slim kittens, it was #3.

Personally, I don't really have a problem with YouTube links, but it's important to remember that even just on YouTube there will often be multiple instances of the same video. Add Google Video, iFilm, etc. to that equation, and there are even more instances.

Point being that if you're going to post a video, the URL search thingy on the New Post page will be next to worthless. So please: use search, and look at the relevant tags!
posted by joshuaconner at 1:33 AM on August 5, 2006

Apologies to anybody seriously aggrieved by the FPP. I am surprised that it is still there, being a triple & all. I did keep the post down to a one-liner so as not to detract from the heavily multi-linked FPPs that are crowding the front page these days ;)

I actually tried a few searches, but stupidly not by tags. A hangover was to blame :( ...but try for yourself: "fatboy" and "kittens" (the most obvious search) turns up nothing for some reason, despite both those words appearing in one of the previous FPPs. A URL search was also fruitless, and largely pointless, as joshuaconner pointed out. Will try harder next time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:58 AM on August 5, 2006

someone has to set an example
posted by caddis at 3:07 AM on August 5, 2006

...but try for yourself: "fatboy" and "kittens" (the most obvious search) turns up nothing for some reason

why do you hate the google?
posted by juv3nal at 3:18 AM on August 5, 2006

Cats, fine. Single-link youtube posts, killing Metafilter. However, having searched out the MeTa youtube posts, I've found that for some bizarre reason I seem to be in a tiny majority in thinking this.
posted by nthdegx at 3:27 AM on August 5, 2006

Single-link youtube posts, killing Metafilter

People whining about single-link posts are killing Metafilter. If someone finds something cool, they should feel free to post it as is without being compelled adding a whole bunch of useless links that ensures no one reads the post because they can't be bothered to wade through the crap the poster didn't want to put there in the first place.
posted by cillit bang at 4:27 AM on August 5, 2006

Erm, so youtube links are the antithesis of posting a heap load of crap links no one wants to read? I've MeTa'd before about people padding out posts with unnecessary links. It's not the "single link" that's the problem - it's that the link is to a rubbish youtube video.

"Whining" is a loaded word. It's a legitimate concern, and while it's being expressed in the gray and not in the blue, then "killing Metafilter" is the last thing it's doing.
posted by nthdegx at 4:38 AM on August 5, 2006

But you haven't said what's wrong with Youtube videos. As far as I can tell, it just happens that a lot of the cool stuff out there which we would have linked to anyway is getting posted to YouTube, where it's easiest to watch.
posted by cillit bang at 4:46 AM on August 5, 2006

What a curmudgeonly, jerkish, whiny callout. As if Metafilter should care what YOU want.
posted by thirteenkiller at 4:58 AM on August 5, 2006

Sorry, I went to bed early and missed it. Deleted.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:04 AM on August 5, 2006

Almost all the YouTube posts on the front page are labelled as such. Maybe all the people who think YouTube=bad should just not click on them (and be grateful that a Mefi post in which they have no interest is a single-link that takes up very little room). Some of things I've seen on YouTube via Metafilter have been great.

Adding more "context" to the kitten thing wouldn't have achieved anything other than taking up unnecessary room on the front page. There wasn't really any mystery about the fact that it was going to be a video about kittens so I just didn't click on it.

Sure, it'd be great if there were more matteo-style "cultural" posts linking to content that could keep one occupied for hours, but if something really cool happens to be on YouTube, why shouldn't it be linked to on the front page?

I dont' really pay much attention to internet moods or movements or whatever, but I was wondering whether there is some sort of snobbery amongst internet "insiders" about YouTube because it's so popular? Does that explain the hatred? (and I'm genuinely curious about this...)
posted by bunglin jones at 5:06 AM on August 5, 2006

People have this vision (beyond Matt's basic guildelines) of what Metafilter should be and, when someone's post violates that sacred vision, the bold/whiny ones run here to let us all know.

I think the ones who complain about YouTube have a vision of Metafilter that involves something a lot more like this, and people sitting around drinking tea with their pinkies sticking out.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:14 AM on August 5, 2006

"I dont' really pay much attention to internet moods or movements or whatever, but I was wondering whether there is some sort of snobbery amongst internet "insiders" about YouTube because it's so popular? Does that explain the hatred? (and I'm genuinely curious about this...)"

I'm no insider, but my objection is simply that I don't think many of the videos linked to are that good. If the links to youtube videos were cut down by three quarters, and there were only links to genuinely high quality videos (yeah, I know what's deamed high quality is clearly debatable) I'd have no objection. Normally, I can find a video I prefer to the one linked to within another 10 minutes of surfing. I'd be more interested in Meta-Youtube type posts that link to groups, channels, spin-off sites or interesting posters (like we see with Flickr posts) than individual videos. It's a more interesting phenomenon than these single link video ("no, but *this* one is funny) posts do justice to. As most people think these are great, though, I'm happy to go along.
posted by nthdegx at 5:15 AM on August 5, 2006

Thirteenkiller's simple guide to YouTube FPPs you don't like:

1. Watch video
2. Determine you don't like it
3. Post "I did not find this video so compelling." in comments. You can even copy and paste, if you like!
4. Do not watch video again.
5. (Optional) Post video you DO like, as Metafilter is a collaborative effort!
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:22 AM on August 5, 2006

Replace #3 with "Flag and move on" and you got a sure-fire recipe there, thirteenkiller!
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 7:02 AM on August 5, 2006

I got knocked down by a car last year, and a whole crowd of people came to my aid. All I could say was 'I shat in my pants' and 'sorry'. There was no physical pain at all, I was just mortified that people were around me, could identify the source of the stink. Christ, I could fucking smell it even going into shock. 'Can you move your toes mate?' said the paramedic. The only thing that came to mind to say was 'Can you smell my shit?'.

The moral of this not based on actual events tale is that you.. well it's obvious init? Any similarity to what happened in Maine '05 is coincidental.
posted by econous at 7:20 AM on August 5, 2006

I thought Metafilter WAS single link posts to YouTube and Google Video, and the occassional flame-bait post about politics? That's what I'm looking for.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:21 AM on August 5, 2006

This callout seems to want to seize upon the outrageous incidence of a triple post to skewer youtube and single-link posts, but those are opportunistic swipes. There have been triple posts in the past. If anything, the repetitive posting of something indicates that more than one person thought it was worthy. How does this lead us to ban the content or form of this post again?

I don't think many of the videos linked to are that good. If the links to youtube videos were cut down by three quarters

Strangely, this is the same proportion of ALL MetaFilter posts I find interesting.
posted by scarabic at 9:26 AM on August 5, 2006

Eh, a quick look at spiderwire's history shows that he's the sort of politicsfilter reader who is the reason we have a flashing "drama" siren and accompanying Israel/Lebanon stern warning on the New Post page. nthdegx at least regularly contributes diverse links to the front page. But spiderwire's probably the type of person who deliberately clicked on the youtube link and then watched the whole video just so he could be as outraged as possible. He was probably gasping, clucking his tongue, and tut-tutting the whole time, too. Pinky extended.

Spiderwire, I'm totally joking on the personal attack (if the "pinky extended" wasn't enough of a tell). But if you really are the sort of person who likes to be outraged for outrage's sake, don't let me stop you from having a good time working up a fierce lather about it. Have fun with it; this one's on me.

Oh, and I wasn't supposed to let this out, but for the third week of August Matt is going to award the $30 prize to a different youtube link every day, just to piss folks off. It's good to be da King.
posted by Eideteker at 11:17 AM on August 5, 2006

I do like getting outraged! :)

But I wasn't being clear about my point. I like some of the YouTube links, and even some one-line links, but by definition they can't be substantive. Over on reddit, all the posts are single-line, and I often find myself wishing there was context like we have here for the more substantive posts.

But for some stuff, it's just "here's a funny YouTube video," and that's all you can say about it. And people are right, since YT links exist that some do want to see, they're obviously here to stay, and I'm perfectly cool with that.

What I was trying to ask was if there's a possibility that we could get a separate sandbox (MiniFilter!) intended for things that are just tidbits, like one-line YouTube links, cool Wikipedia articles, quick updates to the Israel/Lebanon situation, etc. etc. It seemed like a good way to solve one-line posts, excessive YouTube links, NewsFilter, and other various things that some consider "noise" and some don't, all at once.

Maybe that's a good idea, maybe not, but I wasn't looking for another YouTube good/bad fight, I was just mulling over some kind of compromise option.
posted by spiderwire at 12:35 PM on August 5, 2006

I thought the place for all that stuff was at MetaChat?

That's along the lines of what I was thinking, only if MeCha was actually part of the community at large rather than a place for the core crowd of MeFites to hang out. I prefer MeCha how it is and I was thinking of something integrated into MetaFilter and available to the MeFi general audience to get their random YouTube on, you know?
posted by spiderwire at 12:40 PM on August 5, 2006

Indeed. MetaChat doesn't want the role of "not good enough for MeFi" dumping ground. It's its own independent site, now with a growing base of non-Mefite members (and bigger and better meetups!). Don't join and post your not-good-enough-for-MeFi link and expect to be loved for it! We'll love you anyway, though, because that's how bunnies do.


posted by Eideteker at 12:54 PM on August 5, 2006

For example, right now, on the Reddit frontpage is the article that Landis failed his B test and will be stripped of his medal and kicked off the team. In the comments, it reveals that they found synthetic testosterone. Posting that here would be a one-line blip and people would complain about it being a double, that it should of been posted in the original thread (even though no one is reading that thread anymore). Well, maybe it'd be tolerated, but you see my point.

A whole bunch of those links on our frontpage are also on the Reddit frontpage (we've had basically all one-liners today), and I'm guessing that they migrated here from there, not the other way round. If I wanted to see that stuff, I'd go to Reddit, but I'd rather stay on MeFi (I love you guys!) and just have the one-line Reddit-ish stuff on a separate page, with the things that really make MeFi unique (the more 'substantive' posts) taking up the bulk of the front page. I was just trying to propose the first alternative that came to mind that I thought would accomplish that.
posted by spiderwire at 12:57 PM on August 5, 2006

we've had basically all one-liners today a bunch of posts at the top are one-liners.
posted by spiderwire at 1:07 PM on August 5, 2006

Call me "Kitty Kat."
posted by matteo at 3:25 PM on August 5, 2006

MetaCHAT


posted by ericb at 4:22 PM on August 5, 2006

This is possibly the best argument I have ever read for the complete sanctioning of Youtube posts. It has swayed me and I'm one of the most ardent anti-Youtube Mefites you'll ever come across.

Check it out, is all I'm saying.
posted by Effigy2000 at 5:04 PM on August 5, 2006

I skip nearly all the YouTube posts because YouTube's video quality is awful and unwatchable.

I used to get irritated by all the lame posts with YouTube as the main or only link.

But its a waste of time and its like getting pissed off about rain, it's not going to change anything.

So, just skip the YouTube posts if they upset you so much and the admins will delete them if they are especially lame. Or flag them if it makes you feel better but flagging is decidedly unsatisfying for me, I need explosions when I flag something!
posted by fenriq at 7:20 PM on August 5, 2006

OK, so no one seems to agree with the signal-to-noise ratio argument. I thought it would be cool to have a sidefilter dedicated to stuff that's less deep but still cool, but I understand if others don't agree with that distinction.

I don't mind the status quo. That's why it was flagged as a 'feature request.' :)
posted by spiderwire at 7:51 PM on August 5, 2006

"This is possibly the best argument I have ever read for the complete sanctioning of Youtube posts."

Sanction as in permit or as in penalize? And whose idea was it to make a word its own antonym?
posted by Eideteker at 8:46 PM on August 5, 2006

I sanction that sanction.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:33 PM on August 5, 2006

I can see the point of it, Eideteker, but there's a difference. The web itself doesn't have any built-in filtering, nor could it, since it's a disparate array of sites, hosted all over in varying a sundry formats and technologies. And so MetaFilter was created so that smart humans could do that filtering.

YouTube's vast array of content, by contrast, IS under one technical roof and in one idiom and COULD be filtered many different ways via features on the YouTube website. In fact, since their videos can be embedded anywhere, filtering is really the only reason to have an actual YouTube site.

They sorta try to do filtering now but they haven't nailed it. If and when they do, this argument loses some steam.
posted by scarabic at 12:13 AM on August 6, 2006

Whoops, meant to address that to Effigy2000
posted by scarabic at 12:13 AM on August 6, 2006