Evolution of MetaFilter December 4, 2001 5:10 AM Subscribe
From what I understand, Mefi began as a forum to discuss Web design, whereas it has become a forum to discuss news, ideas, whatever, with a Web site almost incidental to the discussion. Opinions as to when this happened; a specific day or week (these kind of questions interest me)? Also, as much as some people bemoan this evolution, wasn't it inevitable?
Metafilter is a weblog [...] that anyone can contribute a link or a comment to. A typical weblog is one person posting their thoughts on the unique things they find on the web. This website exists to break down the barriers between people, to extend a weblog beyond just one person, and to foster discussion among its members.
Sound familiar?
I would like to see more unique things in FPPs, and less links to stories which I've already heard on the radio or read on a news site. It can seem more like MediaFilter sometimes. But then I participate in those threads too, so I can hardly complain.
MetaFilter is somewhat like we all want it to be, but less so.
posted by walrus at 5:44 AM on December 4, 2001
Sound familiar?
I would like to see more unique things in FPPs, and less links to stories which I've already heard on the radio or read on a news site. It can seem more like MediaFilter sometimes. But then I participate in those threads too, so I can hardly complain.
MetaFilter is somewhat like we all want it to be, but less so.
posted by walrus at 5:44 AM on December 4, 2001
I don't think MetaFilter was ever intended as a weblog about web design. It just felt that way because many of the earliest members were from that community.
posted by rcade at 6:14 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by rcade at 6:14 AM on December 4, 2001
There's a fun little history-o'-mefi thingy over here ... “the idea for a summary or meta weblog hadn't been done yet and it was the direction I intended to go at first.”
posted by transient at 6:37 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by transient at 6:37 AM on December 4, 2001
Opinions as to when this happened; a specific day or week
Definitely March 28, 2000.
posted by daveadams at 9:13 AM on December 4, 2001
Definitely March 28, 2000.
posted by daveadams at 9:13 AM on December 4, 2001
I think the transition from a site with a unique or obscure link and an interesting discussion relating to it (the original weblog concept) to a site with posts containing general news discussions and the polling of members' preferences in the guise of discussion ("I like to breathe. Who else likes to breathe? What's your favorite air?") is what's bemoaned.
posted by megnut at 10:18 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by megnut at 10:18 AM on December 4, 2001
And yet so much of that would be so easy to fix. Yes, I'm going to keep pushing this stupid simple idea. For as long as people complain about "mediafilter."
posted by luser at 10:50 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by luser at 10:50 AM on December 4, 2001
The Nov. 2000 election ballot wackiness caused lots and lots of news-related postings here. I think there was a definite shift after that.
posted by gluechunk at 10:51 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by gluechunk at 10:51 AM on December 4, 2001
MediaFilter. Already done.
My userpage (linked w/my name below of course) includes a little overview of MeFi's first month in existence back in the summer of 1999, and anyone who questions the evolution of MeFi should compare its inception to what it is today. You'll marvel at both the similarities and differences, as I did.
Nowhere in there did I see that Matt ever intended this site to be exclusively for web design. However, there were few to no news article links at its inception. The first news article link ever was on July 26th. Matt himself linked to it. The link is dead by the way, as Yahoo News tends to use dynamic links which do not always remain up after a few weeks' time.
Predominantly, early MeFi links were not very deep, and focused on both the content and design of a website overall. Jennicam was the first link ever. Cat-Scan was the first. It's interesting to see how those two have held up over time. I don't think Cat-scan is updated anymore but it's still there. Jennicam is still updated, and has evolved into a monster, in some ways similar to MeFi's wondrous monster status. They're remarkably different, but have temporally evolved about the same.
Each MeFi link was intended to encourage discussion among a community; consisting of those Matt invited to join him, and anyone who happened upon his site. The fact that what started as only a couple dozen participants has exploded into literally thousands is a testament not only to Matt's vision, but the Internet's powerful word-of-mouth, grassroots, community design. Link to it, and they will come.
There are times when I'm flustered that MetaFilter isn't what I want it to be, but that is egotistical of me to even allow that thought more than a nanosecond. MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be, and second it should be what we as a whole want it to be. Some might even argue the order of those two, but never should it be what you want it to be, whoever you are.
Unless you're Matt of course.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:03 AM on December 4, 2001
My userpage (linked w/my name below of course) includes a little overview of MeFi's first month in existence back in the summer of 1999, and anyone who questions the evolution of MeFi should compare its inception to what it is today. You'll marvel at both the similarities and differences, as I did.
Nowhere in there did I see that Matt ever intended this site to be exclusively for web design. However, there were few to no news article links at its inception. The first news article link ever was on July 26th. Matt himself linked to it. The link is dead by the way, as Yahoo News tends to use dynamic links which do not always remain up after a few weeks' time.
Predominantly, early MeFi links were not very deep, and focused on both the content and design of a website overall. Jennicam was the first link ever. Cat-Scan was the first. It's interesting to see how those two have held up over time. I don't think Cat-scan is updated anymore but it's still there. Jennicam is still updated, and has evolved into a monster, in some ways similar to MeFi's wondrous monster status. They're remarkably different, but have temporally evolved about the same.
Each MeFi link was intended to encourage discussion among a community; consisting of those Matt invited to join him, and anyone who happened upon his site. The fact that what started as only a couple dozen participants has exploded into literally thousands is a testament not only to Matt's vision, but the Internet's powerful word-of-mouth, grassroots, community design. Link to it, and they will come.
There are times when I'm flustered that MetaFilter isn't what I want it to be, but that is egotistical of me to even allow that thought more than a nanosecond. MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be, and second it should be what we as a whole want it to be. Some might even argue the order of those two, but never should it be what you want it to be, whoever you are.
Unless you're Matt of course.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:03 AM on December 4, 2001
Ack! Correction: Jennicam was the SECOND link. Cat-Scan the first. Typo. Sorry.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:13 AM on December 4, 2001
posted by ZachsMind at 11:13 AM on December 4, 2001
MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be, and second it should be what we as a whole want it to be
If I believed that, there wouldn't be anyone here, because only I would be posting. I'm not comfortable being looked at as the person steering the entire mood, subject matter, and vibe of this place.
Everyone here can post links. Continue posting good ones. Occasionally, a good link will be in the form of a news story. That's not always bad, but then there are a lot of news stories that aren't that good. It's up to everyone to think before they link. You are what makes MetaFilter great, and what makes it suck. Pick your path, and go with it.
(cue the splitting of clouds, turn on ray of light falling on me, bring up the chorus of angels in the back singing)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:20 AM on December 4, 2001
If I believed that, there wouldn't be anyone here, because only I would be posting. I'm not comfortable being looked at as the person steering the entire mood, subject matter, and vibe of this place.
Everyone here can post links. Continue posting good ones. Occasionally, a good link will be in the form of a news story. That's not always bad, but then there are a lot of news stories that aren't that good. It's up to everyone to think before they link. You are what makes MetaFilter great, and what makes it suck. Pick your path, and go with it.
(cue the splitting of clouds, turn on ray of light falling on me, bring up the chorus of angels in the back singing)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:20 AM on December 4, 2001
I'm scared, Joel.
posted by solistrato at 12:13 PM on December 4, 2001
posted by solistrato at 12:13 PM on December 4, 2001
10,000 Angels Singing, here.
Even scarier.
mathowie, what have you wrought?
posted by mattpfeff at 12:23 PM on December 4, 2001
Even scarier.
mathowie, what have you wrought?
posted by mattpfeff at 12:23 PM on December 4, 2001
Mathowie: "If I believed that, there wouldn't be anyone here, because only I would be posting."
Understood, which is why I added to my statement, "Some might even argue the order of those two.." An earlier draft of my post said, "I'm sure Matt would argue the order of those two.." but then I realized others could argue the point with me also. Maybe I shouldn't have added the "Unless you're Matt of course," at the end of the post. Because from your perspective, you have to put the desires of your readership before your own, in order to keep your readership. Amazingly, the whole setup is a neat checks and balances thing, based in no small part on the old golden rule: behave toward others as you would like others to behave toward you.
"I'm not comfortable being looked at as the person steering.."
I for one would not be comfortable with anyone else at the helm. A lesser man would let the power get to his head. You've remarkably avoided that.
"(cue the splitting of clouds, turn on ray of light falling on me, bring up the chorus of angels in the back singing)"
Scratch that. We could just get Paul Schaeffer's band on loan to provide appropriate filler music as you walk off and on stage, or to the desk.
I am by no means intending to paint you as a holier than thou figure. You know me better than that. I don't kiss ass. I call'em as I see'em.
You're the self-appointed mayor of this cybertown. That's a powerful position, but by no means godly. The rest of us are citizens. Our voices are our votes, but you're the one implementing stuff through coding and documentation.
Ultimately, Paris was stating what I feel the facts dismiss as incorrect, and opened my big mouth to correct his assumptions. This place ain't about webdesign alone. Nor should it be. It never was.
Am I wrong?
He's arguing that there's something wrong with the evolution of this site, but I can find nothing wrong with it, based on how it's been used from the very beginning. Am I the only person who sees nothing inherently wrong with the premise or the execution?
posted by ZachsMind at 3:47 PM on December 4, 2001
Understood, which is why I added to my statement, "Some might even argue the order of those two.." An earlier draft of my post said, "I'm sure Matt would argue the order of those two.." but then I realized others could argue the point with me also. Maybe I shouldn't have added the "Unless you're Matt of course," at the end of the post. Because from your perspective, you have to put the desires of your readership before your own, in order to keep your readership. Amazingly, the whole setup is a neat checks and balances thing, based in no small part on the old golden rule: behave toward others as you would like others to behave toward you.
"I'm not comfortable being looked at as the person steering.."
I for one would not be comfortable with anyone else at the helm. A lesser man would let the power get to his head. You've remarkably avoided that.
"(cue the splitting of clouds, turn on ray of light falling on me, bring up the chorus of angels in the back singing)"
Scratch that. We could just get Paul Schaeffer's band on loan to provide appropriate filler music as you walk off and on stage, or to the desk.
I am by no means intending to paint you as a holier than thou figure. You know me better than that. I don't kiss ass. I call'em as I see'em.
You're the self-appointed mayor of this cybertown. That's a powerful position, but by no means godly. The rest of us are citizens. Our voices are our votes, but you're the one implementing stuff through coding and documentation.
Ultimately, Paris was stating what I feel the facts dismiss as incorrect, and opened my big mouth to correct his assumptions. This place ain't about webdesign alone. Nor should it be. It never was.
Am I wrong?
He's arguing that there's something wrong with the evolution of this site, but I can find nothing wrong with it, based on how it's been used from the very beginning. Am I the only person who sees nothing inherently wrong with the premise or the execution?
posted by ZachsMind at 3:47 PM on December 4, 2001
I for one would not be comfortable with anyone else at the helm.
There is no helm. That's kinda the point. It's a big, round raft, and we're all in the water, holding on, kicking away. I want the raft to go one direction, you may want it to go another. Matt's there to keep us from hitting the rocks, but he's not really "steering" per se. That's the beauty of it.
posted by jpoulos at 8:04 PM on December 4, 2001
There is no helm. That's kinda the point. It's a big, round raft, and we're all in the water, holding on, kicking away. I want the raft to go one direction, you may want it to go another. Matt's there to keep us from hitting the rocks, but he's not really "steering" per se. That's the beauty of it.
posted by jpoulos at 8:04 PM on December 4, 2001
All hail the godlike floating head!
Again!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:46 AM on December 5, 2001
Again!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:46 AM on December 5, 2001
Oh for Pete's Sake: HE OWNS THE SERVER. Of course he's at the helm. That doesn't make him a god. He can delete posts. He can do that programming code stuff thing. He is the final word on guidelines and rules. All that stuff. He's the one in charge. This isn't godlike floating head worship. It's acknowledging the facts. Y'all are being silly.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:07 AM on December 5, 2001
posted by ZachsMind at 7:07 AM on December 5, 2001
Y'all are being silly.
Maybe. It seem to me, rather, that w'all [;)] are being increasingly made uncomfortable by this insistence that "it's Matt's site, he can do what he wants, no one else matters" or "MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be". While this is undoubtedly true in some sense, Matt has consistently taken a relatively hands-off approach and let a community grow and govern itself (thanks, Matt). This seems like a conscious choice on his part, and we should acknowledge that. If Matt is our god, he's a very free-will, non-smiting-oriented god by and large, and we should take some responsibility for the site.
Plus--if I were Matt, and I wanted to be able to actually participate, not just "govern," I'd want to have some distance between Matt-the-site-owner and Matt-the-participant. What fun is it to attempt to have a conversation of people aresucking up genuflecting to you all the time?
posted by rodii at 7:27 AM on December 5, 2001
Maybe. It seem to me, rather, that w'all [;)] are being increasingly made uncomfortable by this insistence that "it's Matt's site, he can do what he wants, no one else matters" or "MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be". While this is undoubtedly true in some sense, Matt has consistently taken a relatively hands-off approach and let a community grow and govern itself (thanks, Matt). This seems like a conscious choice on his part, and we should acknowledge that. If Matt is our god, he's a very free-will, non-smiting-oriented god by and large, and we should take some responsibility for the site.
Plus--if I were Matt, and I wanted to be able to actually participate, not just "govern," I'd want to have some distance between Matt-the-site-owner and Matt-the-participant. What fun is it to attempt to have a conversation of people are
posted by rodii at 7:27 AM on December 5, 2001
It seem to me, rather, that w'all [;)] are being increasingly made uncomfortable by this insistence that "it's Matt's site, he can do what he wants, no one else matters" or "MeFi should first be what Matt wants it to be".
Well said, rodii. I know that has been my reaction, and I've spoken against this appeal-to-ultimate-authority perpective a couple of times now. It seems very clear to me that this has never been Matt's intent or desire, and his post above seems to definitively confirm this.
posted by rushmc at 7:32 AM on December 5, 2001
Well said, rodii. I know that has been my reaction, and I've spoken against this appeal-to-ultimate-authority perpective a couple of times now. It seems very clear to me that this has never been Matt's intent or desire, and his post above seems to definitively confirm this.
posted by rushmc at 7:32 AM on December 5, 2001
I cite this.
"metafilter doesn't have to be everything to everyone. besides, we've been round and round this bush and it comes to this: that's not what matt wants his site to be. so it's not."
- Rebecca Blood
I have repeatedly said I ain't deifying Matt, but does anyone other than Matt have their finger on the server's keyboard? No. Well, unless Matt lets them have it. Matt purposefully and actively shares the power of this place with the people who participate, to his credit. He listens to input and encourages it. However, every decision is ultimately his to make. That makes him MeFi's acting governor, reluctant or not.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:28 AM on December 6, 2001
"metafilter doesn't have to be everything to everyone. besides, we've been round and round this bush and it comes to this: that's not what matt wants his site to be. so it's not."
- Rebecca Blood
I have repeatedly said I ain't deifying Matt, but does anyone other than Matt have their finger on the server's keyboard? No. Well, unless Matt lets them have it. Matt purposefully and actively shares the power of this place with the people who participate, to his credit. He listens to input and encourages it. However, every decision is ultimately his to make. That makes him MeFi's acting governor, reluctant or not.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:28 AM on December 6, 2001
Of course we were being silly. Sheesh.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:12 PM on December 6, 2001
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:12 PM on December 6, 2001
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Not really.
posted by rory at 5:22 AM on December 4, 2001