And yet MetaFilter is a joy to read June 4, 2002 9:24 AM Subscribe
Piling on clavdivs; piling on riviera; piling on fold_and_mutilate; piling on stavrosthewonderchicken; piling on rodii; piling on evanizer; piling on rcade; piling on bluetrain; piling and unpiling; back and forth; predictably lashing and then cuddling; the pack mentality rife; the mob rule always subjacent... This is what MetaTalk looks like after two weeks away.
And yet... and yet MetaFilter is a joy to read. I'd wished personalities weren't made into issues at the cost of issues themselves - issues are, after all, what MetaFilter does best - but then it struck me that perhaps MetaTalk is fulfilling its role as a sort of blotter-paper, soaking up all the displaced aggressiveness and natural human attrition and rivalry. And keeping MetaFilter clean, so to speak. Is this perverse or healthy in a leeching, purging sort of way? So - can this be talked about without thinking it's about somebody or another? Has MetaTalk been efficiently used so that MetaFilter can be MetaFilter? Is it being dumbed down and fouled up? And does it matter if the result over in the blue seems so successful?
And yet... and yet MetaFilter is a joy to read. I'd wished personalities weren't made into issues at the cost of issues themselves - issues are, after all, what MetaFilter does best - but then it struck me that perhaps MetaTalk is fulfilling its role as a sort of blotter-paper, soaking up all the displaced aggressiveness and natural human attrition and rivalry. And keeping MetaFilter clean, so to speak. Is this perverse or healthy in a leeching, purging sort of way? So - can this be talked about without thinking it's about somebody or another? Has MetaTalk been efficiently used so that MetaFilter can be MetaFilter? Is it being dumbed down and fouled up? And does it matter if the result over in the blue seems so successful?
(you did basically beg for a "pile on miguel" with this post)
If you examine each of the aforementioned "piles" rather then angling at an Important Trend and/or Social Phenomenon, you'd see that each of those threads was fairly different, with more or less merit, different points, and a wide range of opinions in the threads. I don't see mob mentality.
As to the rest of your point tho, I'm with you, metatalk does seem like a "vent" of sorts for concerns -- but that is its stated purpose, no? Communities are by and large made up of individuals, yes? Sometimes individuals do things that upset people. And here we are.
All is well.
posted by malphigian at 9:37 AM on June 4, 2002
If you examine each of the aforementioned "piles" rather then angling at an Important Trend and/or Social Phenomenon, you'd see that each of those threads was fairly different, with more or less merit, different points, and a wide range of opinions in the threads. I don't see mob mentality.
As to the rest of your point tho, I'm with you, metatalk does seem like a "vent" of sorts for concerns -- but that is its stated purpose, no? Communities are by and large made up of individuals, yes? Sometimes individuals do things that upset people. And here we are.
All is well.
posted by malphigian at 9:37 AM on June 4, 2002
AGGHHHHH dammit!!! Miguel!!! We were waiting to see if the metatalk page could collapse because there would be no more posts left! And now you had to ruin it. ERRRRRRRRR. I'd call you a slur but I do not know one for Portugese people. How about "Porties"?
posted by geoff. at 9:49 AM on June 4, 2002
posted by geoff. at 9:49 AM on June 4, 2002
Not to defend the indefensible, but I suspect that in at least *some* of the cases which you identify as "piling on," the intent was to note and chastize examples of exactly the sort of behaviors you are decrying in your statement "I'd wished personalities weren't made into issues at the cost of issues themselves." Piling rarely occurs in a vacuum.
posted by rushmc at 9:58 AM on June 4, 2002
posted by rushmc at 9:58 AM on June 4, 2002
(you did basically beg for a "pile on miguel" with this post) - malphigian
I believe that Miguel had his own pile shortly before he left on vacation. He wasn't too pleased, I think.
Miguel, how was your vacation? I trust you weren't going thru withdrawal? I hope you had a good time.
In answer to your questions, who cares? MetaTalk is MetaTalk. If it turns into dump on X as opposed to anything else, so be it. It works and it is its own venue. I often just read MetaTalk because sometimes it is just as entertaining and informative as MetaFilter. Besides, sometimes we all need to be told to rein it in. A little reality check. (I'm not saying any of the people mentioned did or did not need MetaTalked about, just so's you know.)
on preview, what rushmc said, too
posted by ashbury at 10:04 AM on June 4, 2002
I believe that Miguel had his own pile shortly before he left on vacation. He wasn't too pleased, I think.
Miguel, how was your vacation? I trust you weren't going thru withdrawal? I hope you had a good time.
In answer to your questions, who cares? MetaTalk is MetaTalk. If it turns into dump on X as opposed to anything else, so be it. It works and it is its own venue. I often just read MetaTalk because sometimes it is just as entertaining and informative as MetaFilter. Besides, sometimes we all need to be told to rein it in. A little reality check. (I'm not saying any of the people mentioned did or did not need MetaTalked about, just so's you know.)
on preview, what rushmc said, too
posted by ashbury at 10:04 AM on June 4, 2002
sigh... I remember when it was pile on crunchland day... whatever happened to those good old days?
...ah, good times, good times.
posted by crunchland at 10:16 AM on June 4, 2002
...ah, good times, good times.
posted by crunchland at 10:16 AM on June 4, 2002
Buck Buck Number Forty Seven!
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:21 AM on June 4, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:21 AM on June 4, 2002
wow, another "shout out to my MeFi homies" post here in MeTa.
I'd wished personalities weren't made into issues at the cost of issues themselves - issues are, after all, what MetaFilter does best
Isn't that exactly 100% The Point. MeFi does issues well and when there are issues about those issues, people come here. Saying you wish personalities weren't issues is just shy of saying "why can't we all just get along?" and I think you know why we can't all just get along. MeTa does exactly what it is supposed to do, remove non-germane discussions loosely related to whatever's on MeFi to a separate place so that discussion can happen more on-topic.
Posting threads where you name names, and then asking to have this be a thread that isn't "about somebody or other" strikes me as disengenuous and just a little bit precious. Welcome back, Miguel.
posted by jessamyn at 10:26 AM on June 4, 2002
I'd wished personalities weren't made into issues at the cost of issues themselves - issues are, after all, what MetaFilter does best
Isn't that exactly 100% The Point. MeFi does issues well and when there are issues about those issues, people come here. Saying you wish personalities weren't issues is just shy of saying "why can't we all just get along?" and I think you know why we can't all just get along. MeTa does exactly what it is supposed to do, remove non-germane discussions loosely related to whatever's on MeFi to a separate place so that discussion can happen more on-topic.
Posting threads where you name names, and then asking to have this be a thread that isn't "about somebody or other" strikes me as disengenuous and just a little bit precious. Welcome back, Miguel.
posted by jessamyn at 10:26 AM on June 4, 2002
Is it just me, or is Miguel suggesting that he's the civilizing influence on metatalk?
posted by darukaru at 10:43 AM on June 4, 2002
posted by darukaru at 10:43 AM on June 4, 2002
can this be talked about without thinking it's about somebody or another?
Not even if it's about you? Please?
posted by luser at 10:48 AM on June 4, 2002
Not even if it's about you? Please?
posted by luser at 10:48 AM on June 4, 2002
Who had 9:24 PST for June 4th? Anyone?
So two weeks isn't enough, Skot? You ungrateful cad.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:45 AM on June 4, 2002
So two weeks isn't enough, Skot? You ungrateful cad.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:45 AM on June 4, 2002
Don't feel upset Miguel. I feel bad for you, I truly do. It has been almost a week since the last pouncing, and your post here seems to be rather inviting. I appreciate the shout-out, and here's a couple of chest-pounds as a thank you, but really, MeTa's purpose isn't to vent and bicker, although it certainly has become that way for a while now. I thought I felt some progress, since there have been so few posts here in the past couple of days, and hopefully this trend will continue. Maybe MeFi is evolving a bit (although rodii's departure seemed to be a bit of a wake-up call; that depressed me slightly).
posted by BlueTrain at 11:58 AM on June 4, 2002
posted by BlueTrain at 11:58 AM on June 4, 2002
is Miguel suggesting that he's the civilizing influence on metatalk?
Off the top of my head, in the past Miguel complained about spelling errors on MeFi and asked for mandatory spell-checking, crapped on a guy who chose (bad taste, I admit)
this sign (.)(.) as username, he's complaining a lot but at least he's a nice MeFi neighborhood cop
and btw, Miguel, look: clavdivs, fold, parisparamus have written such horrendous things one time or another (inflammatory stuff, the worst has been deleted by Matt -- and that's saying something -- but I have horrible memories anyway) that only a guy as deeply devoted to free speech as Matt wouldn't have banned them permanently from here
posted by matteo at 1:05 PM on June 4, 2002
Off the top of my head, in the past Miguel complained about spelling errors on MeFi and asked for mandatory spell-checking, crapped on a guy who chose (bad taste, I admit)
this sign (.)(.) as username, he's complaining a lot but at least he's a nice MeFi neighborhood cop
and btw, Miguel, look: clavdivs, fold, parisparamus have written such horrendous things one time or another (inflammatory stuff, the worst has been deleted by Matt -- and that's saying something -- but I have horrible memories anyway) that only a guy as deeply devoted to free speech as Matt wouldn't have banned them permanently from here
posted by matteo at 1:05 PM on June 4, 2002
Feh.
What is the psychosocial significance of MetaTalk as it relates to MetaFilter?
Maybe Matt should put this up as a permanent topic. I mean, why should we require that this question be laboriously re-embroidered every time someone wishes to re-submit it to MetaTalk? Think of the time we could save busy Neo-Sophists.
(still, nice to see you, Miguel)
posted by Opus Dark at 1:23 PM on June 4, 2002
What is the psychosocial significance of MetaTalk as it relates to MetaFilter?
Maybe Matt should put this up as a permanent topic. I mean, why should we require that this question be laboriously re-embroidered every time someone wishes to re-submit it to MetaTalk? Think of the time we could save busy Neo-Sophists.
(still, nice to see you, Miguel)
posted by Opus Dark at 1:23 PM on June 4, 2002
"ranting and pointing his finger
at everything but his heart"
-Tool, 'euology'
my nickels on that the M'ster spent his sun time in Jersey.
...better then Gaul.
posted by clavdivs at 1:33 PM on June 4, 2002
at everything but his heart"
-Tool, 'euology'
my nickels on that the M'ster spent his sun time in Jersey.
...better then Gaul.
posted by clavdivs at 1:33 PM on June 4, 2002
I wish I knew what meta was for. A while back a guy appeared to be dissed because he had the temerity to have strong opinions whilst wishing upon everyone a ray of sunshine in their daily lives on his profile page. Begging the obvious question: if you generally and somewhat wishy washilly wish everyone well, are you then not allowed to have an opinion?
I really wanted to bring it up on here because I thought it was really out of order and was interested to see what the "community" thought. Are we all to have anything we say on our profiles thrust back at us , with no accompanying narrative, if we get vexed?
But I didn't know if it was appropriate, and still don't.
posted by Fat Buddha at 2:54 PM on June 4, 2002
I really wanted to bring it up on here because I thought it was really out of order and was interested to see what the "community" thought. Are we all to have anything we say on our profiles thrust back at us , with no accompanying narrative, if we get vexed?
But I didn't know if it was appropriate, and still don't.
posted by Fat Buddha at 2:54 PM on June 4, 2002
So two weeks isn't enough, Skot? You ungrateful cad.
I believe Skot's comment was directed at your post, which comes across as Hi, guys! I'm back! Anybody miss me? masquerading as pseudosociology.
I'd comment further, but I am on vacation right now. ~I will let you know when I am back by starting a MetaTalk thread.~
posted by iceberg273 at 3:49 PM on June 4, 2002
I believe Skot's comment was directed at your post, which comes across as Hi, guys! I'm back! Anybody miss me? masquerading as pseudosociology.
I'd comment further, but I am on vacation right now. ~I will let you know when I am back by starting a MetaTalk thread.~
posted by iceberg273 at 3:49 PM on June 4, 2002
Oh, the inanity!
posted by Optamystic at 4:36 PM on June 4, 2002
posted by Optamystic at 4:36 PM on June 4, 2002
1. Bill Clinton
2. George W. Bush
3. Miguel Cardoso
4. Jakob Nielsen
5 (tie). conservatives/Republicans
5 (tie). liberals/Democrats
7. pancakes
8. organized religion
9. violence
10 (tie). Macromedia Flash
10 (tie). trolls/strawmen
Congrats, Miguel...you're moving up!
posted by rushmc at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2002
Clinton over Bush and a tie between conservatives and liberals? Really rushmc, that's ludicrous, and if you took off your partisan goggles, you might have a glimpse at reality.
posted by BlueTrain at 5:27 PM on June 4, 2002
posted by BlueTrain at 5:27 PM on June 4, 2002
I'm fairly sure the list was not intended to be scientifically accurate.
posted by Optamystic at 6:50 PM on June 4, 2002
posted by Optamystic at 6:50 PM on June 4, 2002
Religion should have been higher than bush and clinton.T hey are, after all,around for a set number of yearsl; religion bashing is eternal.
With that out of the way, it seems almost like MetaTalk is becoming a place for MetaFites (Filterers?) to go cool down. I mean, we scream at each other all day on the blue screen, then come over here and we're all friends again. Well, except for one notable exception.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 8:09 PM on June 4, 2002
With that out of the way, it seems almost like MetaTalk is becoming a place for MetaFites (Filterers?) to go cool down. I mean, we scream at each other all day on the blue screen, then come over here and we're all friends again. Well, except for one notable exception.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 8:09 PM on June 4, 2002
*wishing I'd proofread the preview more thoroughly*
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 8:10 PM on June 4, 2002
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 8:10 PM on June 4, 2002
Well, except for one notable exception.
It's not so simple as that perhaps?
posted by y2karl at 10:52 PM on June 4, 2002
It's not so simple as that perhaps?
posted by y2karl at 10:52 PM on June 4, 2002
No, it seems 2 weeks was not enough. Welcome back to the land of inane drivel solely for the sake of inane drivel.*SIGH*
posted by scottymac at 11:31 PM on June 4, 2002
posted by scottymac at 11:31 PM on June 4, 2002
Miguel,
Just about everyone who you cited deserved to be piled on for whatever reason. At least it happened here in grey as opposed to blue. I think it to be appropriate.
I agree with you that blue has been better because of the grey pile-on. The noise has been much lower in blue, although there has been quite a few Farkian style posts too. (even though I love fark. but I love it for exactly what it is, not MF)
posted by lampshade at 6:46 AM on June 5, 2002
Just about everyone who you cited deserved to be piled on for whatever reason. At least it happened here in grey as opposed to blue. I think it to be appropriate.
I agree with you that blue has been better because of the grey pile-on. The noise has been much lower in blue, although there has been quite a few Farkian style posts too. (even though I love fark. but I love it for exactly what it is, not MF)
posted by lampshade at 6:46 AM on June 5, 2002
All-Time Favorite Targets for Metafilter Bashing
1. Bill Clinton
I see rushmc has been spending time visiting the Bizarro universe Metafilter.
posted by ljromanoff at 9:06 AM on June 5, 2002
1. Bill Clinton
I see rushmc has been spending time visiting the Bizarro universe Metafilter.
posted by ljromanoff at 9:06 AM on June 5, 2002
Oh, is that where you come from?
posted by crunchland at 10:56 AM on June 5, 2002
posted by crunchland at 10:56 AM on June 5, 2002
you mean ljs' dad is bill clinton?
I doubt it, but anything's possible with Clinton. Did anyone see Bubba in southern Michigan in the spring of 1971?
posted by ljromanoff at 12:24 PM on June 5, 2002
I doubt it, but anything's possible with Clinton. Did anyone see Bubba in southern Michigan in the spring of 1971?
posted by ljromanoff at 12:24 PM on June 5, 2002
I can't help it, I have this image in my head of Bugs Bunny jumping up and down on all the dogs who thought they were piling on him...all the while BB is singing "Dogpile on the Rabitt, Dogpile on the Rabbit!".
Ok. I feel better now that I've shared.
posted by dejah420 at 1:43 PM on June 5, 2002
Ok. I feel better now that I've shared.
posted by dejah420 at 1:43 PM on June 5, 2002
Did anyone see Bubba in southern Michigan in the spring of 1971?
Funny you should mention that, he was here in Flint organizing the last sit down strike.
posted by Dean_Paxton at 2:22 PM on June 5, 2002
Funny you should mention that, he was here in Flint organizing the last sit down strike.
posted by Dean_Paxton at 2:22 PM on June 5, 2002
What's up miguel, how was your vacation?
It was truly truly awful here when clavdivs got a red card. I was worried he would never come back. Who has been kicked out before for a temporary time? And, where is Aaron?
posted by goneill at 4:23 PM on June 5, 2002
It was truly truly awful here when clavdivs got a red card. I was worried he would never come back. Who has been kicked out before for a temporary time? And, where is Aaron?
posted by goneill at 4:23 PM on June 5, 2002
Dang it, I wondered about Aaron almost a month ago myself, and got completely blown off. What did happen to the fellow?
posted by yhbc at 8:22 PM on June 5, 2002
posted by yhbc at 8:22 PM on June 5, 2002
goneill / yhbc: Not pretty to read but this might give an indication...I think that he's got shit to sort out...
posted by i_cola at 3:42 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by i_cola at 3:42 AM on June 6, 2002
Who has been kicked out before for a temporary time?
*reluctantly raises hand*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 AM on June 6, 2002
*reluctantly raises hand*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 AM on June 6, 2002
i-cola, aaron made some posts after the one you posted. last one...april 28th? That post by aaron bout made me cry. I wish him all the best and success. lets turn this inane piling thread into a aaron (positive) thread. anybody have any skinny on aaron?...could we pass the hat? what can (me,we,us) do to help. how about an e-mail?
posted by clavdivs at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by clavdivs at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2002
Hey, clavdivs, I just ten minutes ago got an e-mail from good ole Aaron. Just a friendly note. But he's a great correspondent, in that he's the same honest, intelligent Aaron that he is here. There are no separate personae, no private and public faces - just Aaron. I admire this immensely in him. What he feels, he says. And he says it anywhere. Now that's Socratic. I wish I was more like him.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:35 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:35 AM on June 6, 2002
hey miguel, glad to hear it. I extend my home and my heart to Aaron if need be.
posted by clavdivs at 9:03 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by clavdivs at 9:03 AM on June 6, 2002
Other Aaron addicts please note his wonderful writing on babyblog. It's been referred to before but I bet a lot of people haven't heard of it yet - it will certainly confound their expectations. It's funny, tender and, well, empathetic beyond mere talent. Real writing. Peter - who's already one year old - is a very lucky boy. Can't get more positive than this, clavdivs, eh?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2002
aw - I'm so glad this happened -
1. stavros, i can't believe it. how or why could you have been banned?
2. I remember the aaron meta revelations, but I knew he was here for a while afterwards, and now he is gone. People were really really awful around that time.
3. K. yes.
posted by goneill at 9:33 AM on June 6, 2002
1. stavros, i can't believe it. how or why could you have been banned?
2. I remember the aaron meta revelations, but I knew he was here for a while afterwards, and now he is gone. People were really really awful around that time.
3. K. yes.
posted by goneill at 9:33 AM on June 6, 2002
Aaron lives in the US, guys, and doesn't have kids.
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Could be related to that whole Aaron - Aron Elvis thing. Dunno. And it's very likely that I'm the one that's confused.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2002
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.
Could be related to that whole Aaron - Aron Elvis thing. Dunno. And it's very likely that I'm the one that's confused.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2002
Oh no. Oh the shame! I fear I've mixed up my Aarons. I was speaking of Aaron Miller. I'm very sorry. I do correspond with the American Aaron as well, but my recent e-mails were from the babyblog, UK Aaron. Sorry, sorry, sorry...
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2002
Are all Aarons clear now? I was originally talking about the US Aaron, the one with the politics...
posted by goneill at 9:54 AM on June 6, 2002
posted by goneill at 9:54 AM on June 6, 2002
All right, all right, enough churning of the rumor mill.
"I haven't left; I'm just taking time off to work on a project." - aaron
He wishes us love, happiness, and all the chatter of three MeTa threads. Peace out.
posted by BlueTrain at 9:57 AM on June 6, 2002
"I haven't left; I'm just taking time off to work on a project." - aaron
He wishes us love, happiness, and all the chatter of three MeTa threads. Peace out.
posted by BlueTrain at 9:57 AM on June 6, 2002
doh
(kaf, get the bucket, you know, the tin one with that sqeeky handle)
jesus, if i ever needed a drink...
aaron, miguel, the guy a step away from the dufflebag parlor aaron, that scrapper, political but who isnt. glad to hear hes' workin on a project.
posted by clavdivs at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2002
(kaf, get the bucket, you know, the tin one with that sqeeky handle)
jesus, if i ever needed a drink...
aaron, miguel, the guy a step away from the dufflebag parlor aaron, that scrapper, political but who isnt. glad to hear hes' workin on a project.
posted by clavdivs at 10:53 AM on June 6, 2002
Well, whatever else happens, it's good to know that we have our very own creepy stalker.
posted by darukaru at 8:55 PM on June 6, 2002
posted by darukaru at 8:55 PM on June 6, 2002
and btw, Miguel, look: clavdivs, fold, parisparamus have written such horrendous things one time or another (inflammatory stuff, the worst has been deleted by Matt -- and that's saying something -- but I have horrible memories anyway)
Talking about horrible memories like that can be therapeutic. You may have heard that people with post-traumatic stress disorder often relive horrific events over and over again.
And please, may God and Vioxx protect us from all that horrendous...horrible inflammation .
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:43 PM on June 6, 2002
Talking about horrible memories like that can be therapeutic. You may have heard that people with post-traumatic stress disorder often relive horrific events over and over again.
And please, may God and Vioxx protect us from all that horrendous...horrible inflammation .
~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:43 PM on June 6, 2002
Ooops...I really meant this horrendous...horrible inflammation
~big wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:18 AM on June 7, 2002
~big wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:18 AM on June 7, 2002
And please, may God and Vioxx protect us from all that horrendous...horrible inflammation .
Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever.
posted by evanizer at 12:23 AM on June 7, 2002
Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever.
posted by evanizer at 12:23 AM on June 7, 2002
Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever.
~weary grin~
Sorry little buddy, but not quite. You may have heard that Freudian slips are unconscious and unintended.
(Sheesh, humor here is a chore...at least among the recurrent few...)
The second link notes the first's alleged "inflammation".
Hint: check listings under i-r-o-n-y.
~biggest wink of all to my bestest little pal~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2002
~weary grin~
Sorry little buddy, but not quite. You may have heard that Freudian slips are unconscious and unintended.
(Sheesh, humor here is a chore...at least among the recurrent few...)
The second link notes the first's alleged "inflammation".
Hint: check listings under i-r-o-n-y.
~biggest wink of all to my bestest little pal~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:35 AM on June 7, 2002
Skipper!
Bullshit. This guy's the real me, as you damned well know.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:59 AM on June 7, 2002
Bullshit. This guy's the real me, as you damned well know.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:59 AM on June 7, 2002
What he feels, he says.
I submit that this is not inherently a good thing.
posted by rushmc at 9:36 AM on June 7, 2002
I submit that this is not inherently a good thing.
posted by rushmc at 9:36 AM on June 7, 2002
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posted by eyeballkid at 9:30 AM on June 4, 2002