"This is MetaFilter, not NewsFilter, asshat"

September 22, 2003 8:55 PM

"This is MetaFilter, not NewsFilter, asshat": a delightful namecheck from the crucial, irrepressible Misanthropic Bitch, echoing a worthy sentiment and a cause by now well lost. (Received by e-mail, with thanks.)
posted by MiguelCardoso to MetaFilter-Related at 8:55 PM (87 comments total)

Uh...

OK. I guess so. Seemed more like a completely random quote dropped into an unrelated rant. But I guess that's as good a place as anywhere.
posted by me3dia at 9:09 PM on September 22, 2003

me3dia, I guess you missed the preceding sentence:

"Dictatorial communities form with their own rituals, norms and defense mechanisms, where the neuroses and prejudices of their members are embraced and nurtured. God help you if you interrupt the delicate balance of things."

Whatever can she be on about? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:17 PM on September 22, 2003

It's a shame that MB has outlived her relevancy. Several years of gamely trudging over the same, hoary Dennis-Miller inspired ground would take it's toll on anyone, though. Welfare for parents indeed, heh. MB, let me know when my check gets sent, would you? That'd be great.

Dead on the first sentence, though :)
posted by UncleFes at 9:21 PM on September 22, 2003

My parents taught me how to count, read, tie my shoes, cross the street, and generally not act like a prat.

Lady, I wouldn't count on that last one if I were you...
posted by anastasiav at 9:34 PM on September 22, 2003

Migs, not to be a prat here, but what is the point of this post?
posted by PrinceValium at 9:43 PM on September 22, 2003

To claim the crown of "Most MeTa Posts, Evah?"
posted by bshort at 9:52 PM on September 22, 2003

Hiya Prince: It's like explaining a joke but OK: I think she has a point when she implies MeFi has become is a dictatorial community jealously guarding its own ancient prejudices and habits.

Her choice of the NewsFilter debate as an example of this is particularly apposite. There was a time, not long ago, when news items were frowned upon - nowadays they're everywhere and almost no one bats an eye. The mutant rats item on the front page, to give an example, is but a few sentences long.

The thing is that MetaFilter is becoming well known outside our community as primarily a news filter - hence the irony.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:55 PM on September 22, 2003

nowadays they're everywhere and almost no one bats an eye.

You... do read other metatalk posts, right? Only four or five months ago there was what can only be described as MetaTalk Vigilante Justice in every news-oriented posted on the front page until (rightly) Matt put the kybosh on it and told everyone to cool out a bit.

Not to say we're not a newsfilter, but I think the debate is still ongoing, if a little tired and inconsequential.
posted by The God Complex at 10:06 PM on September 22, 2003

apposite -- Very applicable; well adapted; suitable or fit; relevant; pat; -- followed by to; as, this argument is very apposite to the case.

Just FYI.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:28 PM on September 22, 2003

smock smock smock smock smock smock smock!
posted by quonsar at 10:44 PM on September 22, 2003

Hey, XQ - it's very rude to quote someone without including the strike lines! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:10 PM on September 22, 2003

I think she has a point when she implies MeFi has become is a dictatorial community jealously guarding its own ancient prejudices and habits.

There was a time, not long ago, when news items were frowned upon - nowadays they're everywhere and almost no one bats an eye.

Um... doesn't that mean we aren't guarding ancient habits, if the nature of the front page has changed? Or do you mean to imply that you are jealously guarding the ancient prejudice against newsfilter posts? Because I don't think I understand.
posted by nath at 11:21 PM on September 22, 2003

NOT A LOT OF PEPOLE KONW TIHS

Aoccdrnig to a rsceearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer
in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is
taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is
bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a
wlohe.
posted by bargle at 11:24 PM on September 22, 2003

Now if it were "Local man discovers mutant rat on cable television", that would be different.
posted by dness2 at 12:19 AM on September 23, 2003

"Local man discovers cable television." is a story. "Cable television discovers local man" is news.
posted by seanyboy at 12:23 AM on September 23, 2003

You thought people who played Dungeons and Dragons were silly.

I got lost here.
posted by eddydamascene at 1:25 AM on September 23, 2003

I got lost here.
You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Go North
You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Go West
You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
posted by seanyboy at 1:39 AM on September 23, 2003

Execute a dream?
posted by eddydamascene at 1:51 AM on September 23, 2003

You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Build exit down.
You can't do that. You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Hit head on floor.
You can't do that. You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Scream at map maker.
You can't do that. You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
quit
telnet:>
posted by twine42 at 2:40 AM on September 23, 2003

You are in a darkened room. There are exits to the N, S, E and W. What do you want to do?
Double Post
You are in a grey room, people are typing abusive comments. You can see an X at the top right of the room. What do you want to do?
Click on the X
You have made a wise decision. Strength +2, endurance + 1. You are now in a blue room, you can see a pony.
posted by sebas at 3:51 AM on September 23, 2003

Take the pony.
posted by yhbc at 4:44 AM on September 23, 2003

take the pony or open the box?
posted by triv at 5:40 AM on September 23, 2003

so now any idiot who uses the word "Metafilter" in their boring, dreary weblog will get dragged into Metatalk? Cool way to get hits, I guess.

Fuck you, Miguel.

On an eerily related note, I found a weblog that purports that Matt wants to take the author by the ass. I wish I had the url for it. Oh, here it is.
posted by crunchland at 5:54 AM on September 23, 2003

Oh you found it, did you, crunchland? How lucky for you. Congratulations are in order for taking opportunistic cowardice to a new high. Next time, use your own posts, will you?

Btw, boring and dreary are synonyms, lovey. Though I can see why you'd be confused.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:29 AM on September 23, 2003

you're sexy when you're angry, miguel.
posted by crunchland at 6:52 AM on September 23, 2003

Actually, that crunchland link is more entertaining - and more Metafilter-Related - than Miguel's. But crunchland, the potty talk adds nothing.
posted by soyjoy at 7:02 AM on September 23, 2003

so now any idiot who uses the word "Metafilter" in their boring, dreary weblog will get dragged into Metatalk?

The Misanthropic Bitch is one of the poet laureates of the Web. The fact that she knows us well enough to use MetaFilter as a metaphor for a pedantic, self-important clusterfuck was a pleasant surprise.

Disclaimer: I host her site.
posted by rcade at 7:15 AM on September 23, 2003

I'm so confused - when did crunchland and Miguel start hating each other? Is this because of the 'style of FPP' crap? Miguel, I thought you couldn't be baited into hating anyone - you've always been a perfect gentleman and resisted the baits. Why choose crunchland of all people to piss on? He seems quite innocuous IMO and posts great links (IMHO, anyway).

crunchland vs. Migs - what is MetaTalk coming to?
posted by widdershins at 7:15 AM on September 23, 2003

I don't hate crunchland - in fact, God forgive me, I like the guy. His existence and work actually contribute to my happiness. Hell, we've even made a funny little webjoke together. Whenever I visit #mefi I enjoy talking to him - he's an intelligent, bullshit-cutting guy.

This is just a tiff because he told me to go fuck myself, which is the last person I'd prefer to fuck. Pay no attention, widdershins! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:24 AM on September 23, 2003

Urine is sterile.

You can drink it.
posted by angry modem at 7:45 AM on September 23, 2003

Miguel, I thought you couldn't be baited into hating anyone

Haha. MiguelCardoso is probably the most insecure person on Metafilter. Isn't that obvious?
posted by carfilhiot at 7:45 AM on September 23, 2003

Actually, I've only seen Migs rise to an insult on a handful of occasions, and this is a guy who takes a lot of over the top abuse. He seems pretty even tempered to me.
posted by jonson at 8:03 AM on September 23, 2003

you're sexy when you're angry, miguel.

you're not, crunch. just in case you are laboring under a misapprehension.
posted by quonsar at 8:20 AM on September 23, 2003

Only four or five months ago there was what can only be described as MetaTalk Vigilante Justice in every news-oriented posted on the front page until (rightly) Matt put the kybosh on it and told everyone to cool out a bit.

In fact it was fifty weeks ago. I thought everyone had given up since then.
posted by timeistight at 8:35 AM on September 23, 2003

TMB was all well and good until the 2000 election when she stated that "if you don't have the balls to vote libertarian, vote Bush"

And she hasn't admitted how idiotic that statement is yet, PATRIOT act be damned.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:40 AM on September 23, 2003

Hey Q, gophers abound.

well bargle. some DO have a problem with lazy typing.


"Dictatorial communities form with their own rituals, norms and defense mechanisms, where the neuroses and prejudices of their members are embraced and nurtured. God help you if you interrupt the delicate balance of things."

miguel, WTF, oh wait, it's just (you).

could you explain how dictatorial communities have cultural norms? and then correlate that with on-line communities

god help the filter if it decides to become a profitable website worth serious attention covering a variety of issues.

look, this site is what happens when you don't, or won't or cannot control the content 100%.
not control in the dictator meaning but editing and restructure (your) product/work.

this place, as i predicted YEARS AGO, has become a cracking cement kiosk with a mass of faded, peeled paper.
sure, new stuff is up everyday and it is good but...
posted by clavdivs at 9:14 AM on September 23, 2003

sure, new stuff is up everyday and it is good but...

But what? There are many people who obviously still enjoy this place. I come here every day, despite the fact that I'm told it's been going downhill for nigh on 4 years now. What, exactly, is so broken about this place?


(And how does one get into the dictators' club that secretly controls the stuff that individuals post to the front page and the comments, anyway?)
posted by Space Coyote at 9:22 AM on September 23, 2003

..but...it needs change and new blood.
posted by clavdivs at 9:40 AM on September 23, 2003

"But what? [...] What, exactly, is so broken about this place?"

It has become inbred. The same people, making the same arguments, about the same topics. In large part we don't need to read most of the comments anymore. We can look at the topic, see who is making the comment, and then we already know what the comment will be.

Sure, lots of people, including me, still enjoy it. Doesn't mean it couldn't be more lively and fresh.

So........ Not so much dead or broken. But certainly gathering dust.

I suggest a new scholarship idea:

Anyone wanting a MeFi membership can make a scholarship donation along with an essay stating why they want to join. Every member will get one thumbs up or down vote on each essay. At the end of the month the 10 essays with the most thumbs up votes get a membership.

It would be a lot of work up front, but:

1) It could sustain itself long term without further admin from Matt.
2) It would ensure a regular influx of interesting people.
3) It would give us something more interesting to do than bash each other.
4) It's very cool and innovative.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:12 AM on September 23, 2003

Except the only people admitted would be left-wingers.

And how would we guard against a troll going out to one of those "term papers for sale" web sites and submitting that?

I think the preferred way to go is just open the sign-ups to 10 people a day at random time each day, for something like thirty days. And open a few back doors, too.
posted by rocketman at 10:34 AM on September 23, 2003

The thing is that MetaFilter is becoming well known outside our community as primarily a news filter - hence the irony.
Noticing; News-Filter can bring the widest disagreement among the "whole community" upon which too gives us our greater discussions.
PS, spell check wanted to replace MetaFilter with detailer. One thing I see as a community asset, we appreciate detail.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:47 AM on September 23, 2003

We've had twenty-one people join since March and people are still talking about new blood – why do you think another ten people per month would be any different?
posted by timeistight at 10:55 AM on September 23, 2003

Well, timesistight, we'd have ten more people to help us complain about the same things. Maybe they'd come up with exciting new similes.
posted by orange swan at 11:10 AM on September 23, 2003

anyone wanna buy a good used smock?
posted by quonsar at 11:42 AM on September 23, 2003

Does it vibrate?
posted by konolia at 11:58 AM on September 23, 2003

Frankly, I think Miguel "How do you wipe your ass?" Cardosa lamenting the state of Metafilter is like McDonald's lamenting the state of good, old-fashioned home cooking, which explains my earlier outburst, but it doesn't excuse it. I should have reconsidered before I pressed the POST button.

Miguel is a very nice guy who just shouldn't be able to post messages in MetaTalk, is all.
posted by crunchland at 12:16 PM on September 23, 2003

Miguel, I read the preceding sentence, and I still feel like MetaFilter was dragged into her rant for no particular reason other than to draw your attention.

On the topic at hand (although I fear it's lost):

Dictatorial communities form with their own rituals, norms and defense mechanisms, where the neuroses and prejudices of their members are embraced and nurtured.

By definition, all communities form their own rituals, norms and defense mechanisms. That's what makes them communities, not just a bunch of people standing near each other. God help you if you disturb the core nature of any community.

The Misanthropic Bitch has a point about the childfree movement. It's ridiculous. But I think her introduction was misleading, or at least mis-aimed.

The real issue to be addressed is this: MetaFilter is a closed community, and because of that staleness, infighting, and apathy have crept in. If anything, the fact that TMB thought to use us as an example of this should serve as a wake-up call to shake us out of our habits. Those calling for fresh blood are right, but in the meantime let's all get up for a seventh inning stretch.
posted by me3dia at 12:35 PM on September 23, 2003

From your previous postings, crunchie, I'd guess you'd expand "shouldn't be able to post messages in MetaTalk" to "shouldn't be able to post messages in MetaFilter".

Which makes a change from your opinion when you posted this: I think that very uncharitable, iconomy. I've seen plenty of weblogs that swipe content from Metafilter. Just because he happens to be lucky enough to get paid to keep a blog doesn't have any bearing on it. Furthermore, many of Miguel's front page posts are interesting, novel and thought provoking.

granted, when he makes front page posts over here on metatalk, things do take a turn for the worse...
posted by crunchland at 1:23 PM PST on May 16
posted by dash_slot- at 12:44 PM on September 23, 2003

Ha. Thanks, dash_slot- I was going to link to that, but the irony was so delicious that I was enjoying it all by myself, gluttonous pig that I am.

I am sort of amazed that you remember it, though. And what's with the dash after your username?
posted by iconomy at 12:49 PM on September 23, 2003

Hmmm. Yeah, I guess I was way wrong back in May.

Boy, talk about karma biting me on the ass.
posted by crunchland at 12:56 PM on September 23, 2003

speaking of irony, i found this site to most helpful in the fall season concerning animal control

the little bugger got under the house a few days ago and i don't want to bury him in if he is in residence.

oh, this is not some cheap trick, below the belt shot at migs

though it could be taken as such.
but i could post picture of the suspected entryway but i couldn't capture that smell, lingering but slight. So the proof is in the pudding as my grandmother would say.

see, life is kinda like that
filled with iron things and simile smiles and at the end most say
what does it matter.
well, if anyone has any good advice on my critter problem problem i would be most thankful.

because i always like to see a good resolution in MeTa.

THANKS
posted by clavdivs at 12:59 PM on September 23, 2003

I love how crunchland's apology was also a chance to get in two more good swipes.

I like both Miguel's and Crunchland's posting styles, but I have to admit that if I'm not immediately interested in Crunchland's subject matter I'll skip right over it, as it has no 'hook'. Miguel, on the other hand, is good at drawing me in and at least getting curious enough to click on one or two of the links and checking out the comments.

I think this particular MeTa post was a bit of a stretch. (seemed like he was googling for the word metafilter looking for something to post about).
posted by Space Coyote at 1:04 PM on September 23, 2003

640 x 480 is good, and you damn well better learn to like it.
posted by quonsar at 1:07 PM on September 23, 2003

iconomy: I didn't remember it - I discovered it when searching to see the number of times Crunchland said fuck you to miguel. the search doesn't actually turn much up that I expected...but still - this was an added bonus

And the dash? Isn't it 'self-evident'? (",)

Anyway, crunchland - you say "I guess I was way wrong back in May" like you remember it now from earlier this year. It was actually May 2002.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:13 PM on September 23, 2003

oh. then that explains it. I'm much older and wiser now.
posted by crunchland at 1:19 PM on September 23, 2003

Then shut the fuck up saying 'Fuck you' whenever ya feel crabby like a schoolkid, 'kay?
posted by dash_slot- at 1:36 PM on September 23, 2003

Some irony intended.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:40 PM on September 23, 2003

I can't believe I never noticed the dash.
posted by iconomy at 1:41 PM on September 23, 2003

Who, me?
posted by dash_slot- at 1:51 PM on September 23, 2003

Guess this has probably been posted before, and if so apologies, but anyway: Stages 3, 4 and 5 from 'The Natural Life Cycle of Mailing Lists' by Kat Nagel, available here amongst other places.

3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up).

4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions).

5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed).
posted by carter at 2:04 PM on September 23, 2003

The conversation on this thread has been had many times and in many ways. I have come to the conclusion that half the fun of this place must be in waiting to pounce on any fellow member's least misstep and worrying it to death.

Don't any of you have hobbies?
posted by konolia at 2:16 PM on September 23, 2003

posted by y2karl at 2:19 PM on September 23, 2003

Look out, y2k is back with the pictures.

EEEEEEOOOOOH
posted by Mid at 2:25 PM on September 23, 2003

Why, thank you Y2k!! I now have a new wallpaper pic!

Hmmm, what are you saying here......wasn't she a beard for Rock "I can't believe it's not K-Y" Hudson?
posted by dash_slot- at 2:39 PM on September 23, 2003

Someone should make baublefilter.com where you can only post flash and shockwave to please these people..."Posting a news link? Get lost. I want to watch hamsterdance again and again."

ROTFL

And wow, that Lance Armstrong or whatever his name was is WEAK.

why do you think another ten people per month would be any different?

Um, because it always has in the past?
posted by rushmc at 3:10 PM on September 23, 2003

I like pancakes. Anyone here like pancakes?

Come on Miguel, I like you and usually have no problem with what you post. I think, though, that this time you have pushed the envelope just a teensy bit too far.
posted by dg at 3:12 PM on September 23, 2003

(Received by e-mail, with thanks.)
posted by MiguelCardoso to MetaFilter-related at 8:55 PM PST

(seemed like he was googling for the word metafilter looking for something to post about).

The good news: He wasn't Googling for MetaFilter.
The bad news: Miguel has just become MeFi's answer to Strong Bad (if he wasn't already). Everybody! Everybody!
posted by wendellseviltwin at 3:39 PM on September 23, 2003

Metafilter: filled with iron things and simile smiles and at the end most say
what does it matter.
I'm loving this poetry thing, clav : >
and thanks for the lance arthur thing, crunch

btw, everyone's sexy when they're angry, i've found. It's just hard to tell when you're not face-to-face.
posted by amberglow at 3:46 PM on September 23, 2003

thanks amber
but i think i could really blossom if i had this to work on.
:)
posted by clavdivs at 4:39 PM on September 23, 2003

My sense of time has eroded, apparently. Carry on with the eclectic, nonsensical gibberish now.
posted by The God Complex at 5:59 PM on September 23, 2003

Metafilter: eclectic nonsensical gibberish.
posted by konolia at 6:00 PM on September 23, 2003

for the discriminating gibberer.
posted by quonsar at 6:29 PM on September 23, 2003

All of you shut the fuck up right now.

Seriously, though: new members. I know people who have wanted to join Metafilter for about a year now, but can't. Actual intelligent people, rather than - well, most of us.
posted by solistrato at 6:57 PM on September 23, 2003

Actual intelligent people, rather than - well, most of us.

I think that we should install an online resume that new applicants must use to even consider membership. But that's not MeFi. Open the floodgates Matt and accept the consequences of an open society - zero accountability.
posted by BlueTrain at 7:05 PM on September 23, 2003

eclectic nonsensical gibberish

Folks, it's been a fun few years, but advances in automation mean we're going to have to let you all go. We once thought your posting... skills were irreplaceable. I guess we were wrong; I'm sorry. I'll just hand the mic over to Commentron 2000 now...

Dinkum Preplacement Ommadtidial Chrysamine!
Suprapapillary removable bellicosely laryngophthisis?
Thaumaturge abnegative thermionic cacographical!

perl -e '@a=<>;map{print$a[rand@a]}1..4' /usr/share/dict/words
posted by tss at 7:09 PM on September 23, 2003

Actual intelligent people, rather than - well, most of us.

unlike yourself. where in the fuck do you get off. New members?, what are you the fucking welcome wagon. anyday you wanna bandy words I'm your huckleberry.
mr. 3 digit wonder.
I guess you like telling people to shut the fuck up

your yesterday sweetheart now go get a tray of cigarettes, i need a smoke.
posted by clavdivs at 8:18 PM on September 23, 2003

Totally sweet tss, totally sweet:

checkerboard bet beloved impaction tyrannical protoplasm
ranked muffler conjuncted jovial transcend concealers stomp beautifully boyfriend sunning loyally praiseworthy
tailors perfectionist wavers beaks stranding doll

pigmentation checksummed mutates regardless duck reducing sunburn allocation brindle odors stroker aiding avariciously precocity villain coagulate

I tried to figure out where to put a 'chop' in there so's to eliminate EOLs... anyone know? Anyone want to disect this one?
posted by namespan at 8:25 PM on September 23, 2003

Except for clavdivs and quonsar, you're all quite mad. Mad beyond pills and words. Not mad in a sick way: pleasantly bonkers; beyond help; crazier than vegetarian mosquitos.

I expect you know that full well, but, what the hell, it's still quite startling to me. A solace, almost.

Please keep it up. On your madness MetaFilter depends. :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:30 PM on September 23, 2003

Well, Miguel, you managed to send nearly 250 new people to my website today, and though I don't know if you intended to do that, I nevertheless give you this.
posted by crunchland at 1:51 AM on September 24, 2003

Christ, I'm all weepy now.

Best. LOTR. Trailer. Ever.
posted by Dagobert at 2:54 AM on September 24, 2003

crazier than vegetarian mosquitos.
People who live in glass houses...;-)
posted by konolia at 4:01 AM on September 24, 2003

namespan: try this on for size

perl -e '@a=map{chop;$_}<>;print ucfirst(join" ",@a[map(rand@a,1..4)]),", asshat!\n"' /usr/share/dict/words
posted by tss at 5:12 AM on September 24, 2003

sorry, better yet:

perl -e '@a=map{chop;$_}<>;print ucfirst "@a[map(rand@a,1..4)], asshat!\n"' /usr/share/dict/words
posted by tss at 5:18 AM on September 24, 2003

Damn, crunchland, that link shat popups all over my screen.
posted by me3dia at 8:52 AM on September 24, 2003

apologies. my browser protected me. I had no idea.
posted by crunchland at 9:04 AM on September 24, 2003

No worries, I just have to remember quit browsing with IE.
posted by me3dia at 12:08 PM on September 24, 2003

Manure incidence taken healthfully, asshat!

Hmmmm. It appears manureincidencetakenhealthfully.com is available for registration.
posted by namespan at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2003