please know the answer, ok? March 4, 2004 2:26 PM Subscribe
A humble request: if you're going to answer a question in AskMe, please know the answer, ok?
Does this bother anyone else? Or is it just me?
I'm scared to answer your question - I could get it wrong, and it sounds like you lose more points for guessing than for leaving it blank.
posted by freebird at 2:35 PM on March 4, 2004
I'm scared to answer your question - I could get it wrong, and it sounds like you lose more points for guessing than for leaving it blank.
posted by freebird at 2:35 PM on March 4, 2004
Well ook... on the Blue, we either ignore 'em or say something bad about their mamas or their nazi affiliations or some such.
I'm sorry, what was the question?
Oh, alright -- Yeah, it bugs me too, but I'm guessing that's one of the bigger self-policing issues on the Green. Just because your question may get answered doesn't mean it'll get answered correctly. That can sometimes be a lot to ask, and it sucks, but -- how about giving the offender a little smarten-up smack?
posted by chicobangs at 2:36 PM on March 4, 2004
I'm sorry, what was the question?
Oh, alright -- Yeah, it bugs me too, but I'm guessing that's one of the bigger self-policing issues on the Green. Just because your question may get answered doesn't mean it'll get answered correctly. That can sometimes be a lot to ask, and it sucks, but -- how about giving the offender a little smarten-up smack?
posted by chicobangs at 2:36 PM on March 4, 2004
I agree. I see too much "well, have you thought of this whole *other* way to do what you want?" Instead of just helping out with the question asked. Sometimes, this is appropriate. But often, it takes up the whole thread.
posted by scarabic at 3:13 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by scarabic at 3:13 PM on March 4, 2004
I respectfully dissent. AskMe threads are for everyone, and everyone benefits from seeing a broad array of answers (and the poster benefits from the particular answer suited to his needs.) Otherwise, responses would be directed via email rather than displayed in a public forum.
posted by PrinceValium at 4:02 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 4:02 PM on March 4, 2004
Does this bother anyone else?
Brown, unless it's found in Eastern Saskatchewan, in which case it may have a grayish tinge.
posted by Shane at 4:12 PM on March 4, 2004
Brown, unless it's found in Eastern Saskatchewan, in which case it may have a grayish tinge.
posted by Shane at 4:12 PM on March 4, 2004
I think we have to trust AskMefi posters to corral their own responses. As a regular green reader, I sometimes get more from the not-dead-on replies, or replies with loose ends that others pick up on. If you're looking for precision and efficiency, AskMefi is probably the wrong place to look for it. It's a bulletin board, not a pay service. And I don't think a precise, efficient AskMefi would be much fun to read, anyway.
posted by squirrel at 4:15 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by squirrel at 4:15 PM on March 4, 2004
I dissent too: this response from arco to the poem question didn't answer, but had a wealth of valuable information. It was all "it might be" and "you could try" and on the whole, excellent, IMHO. (the whole thread is, actually)
posted by amberglow at 4:30 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by amberglow at 4:30 PM on March 4, 2004
Welcome to the Internet?
posted by the fire you left me at 4:47 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by the fire you left me at 4:47 PM on March 4, 2004
I find the best answers are often to the question I didn't ask.
posted by pomegranate at 4:49 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by pomegranate at 4:49 PM on March 4, 2004
I'm agreeing with squirrel and amberglow. (And maybe Shane.)
posted by taz at 4:50 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by taz at 4:50 PM on March 4, 2004
Isn't AskMe collections of answers to which questions are appended?
posted by Opus Dark at 4:54 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by Opus Dark at 4:54 PM on March 4, 2004
Ewwww.... he used the "a" word. Oh, wait. I'm no longer correctly answering your question. I'll just push this delete button.
posted by squirrel at 5:09 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by squirrel at 5:09 PM on March 4, 2004
Wow, Google likes Metafilter a lot. I posted an answer to that poem question that I found by searching for god+dead+ovens+poem. That was yesterday. Just tried it again, and look what's #1...
posted by staggernation at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by staggernation at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2004
I see too much "well, have you thought of this whole *other* way to do what you want?" Instead of just helping out with the question asked.
See, I think that this is the crux of our disagreement. Some people feel that their "whole other way" response is a way of "just helping out." And generally speaking, they are. It may not help every time, but I so often see question askers come back and say, "whoa, I hadn't considered that."
Insisting that people refrain from "whole other way" responses is restrictive and counterproductive, since through that method the questioner's unrecognized assumptions may get recognized and tested.
Also, what rocketman said.
posted by squirrel at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2004
See, I think that this is the crux of our disagreement. Some people feel that their "whole other way" response is a way of "just helping out." And generally speaking, they are. It may not help every time, but I so often see question askers come back and say, "whoa, I hadn't considered that."
Insisting that people refrain from "whole other way" responses is restrictive and counterproductive, since through that method the questioner's unrecognized assumptions may get recognized and tested.
Also, what rocketman said.
posted by squirrel at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2004
you don't know shit from apple butter
Here's how you would do it with Microsoft butter:
posted by staggernation at 5:28 PM on March 4, 2004
Here's how you would do it with Microsoft butter:
posted by staggernation at 5:28 PM on March 4, 2004
The net makes editors of us all, and AskMe is no exception.
posted by ascullion at 5:47 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by ascullion at 5:47 PM on March 4, 2004
staggernation, you slay me.
posted by precocious at 6:45 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by precocious at 6:45 PM on March 4, 2004
I'm fine with the sometime "serendipitous" nature of AskMeFi...not everyone gets the answer that they "want," but I'd wager that most people get some answers to questions that they didn't know that they asked.
posted by davidmsc at 8:17 PM on March 4, 2004
posted by davidmsc at 8:17 PM on March 4, 2004
I'm fine with the sometime "serendipitous" nature of AskMeFi...not everyone gets the answer that they "want," but I'd wager that most people get some answers to questions that they didn't know that they asked.
"thanks" davidmsc, it's "good" that you "feel" that way, at least "ostensibly".
Is this a game?
posted by The God Complex at 8:57 PM on March 4, 2004
"thanks" davidmsc, it's "good" that you "feel" that way, at least "ostensibly".
Is this a game?
posted by The God Complex at 8:57 PM on March 4, 2004
Okeydokey. Guess it was just me. I'll just be over here with my apple butter.
That is apple butter, innit?
posted by ook at 8:58 PM on March 4, 2004
That is apple butter, innit?
posted by ook at 8:58 PM on March 4, 2004
People will occasionally provide incorrect answers because, while they are honestly trying to help, they are not infallible. Everyone has been wrong at some point. Even you, ook. After all, you posted this thread... <snicker>
I think the sort of answers provided depends on the nature of the question, really. If someone says, "I'm having all kinds of spyware issues on my Windows computer using Internet Explorer. What can I do to make my machine more secure?", I feel it is more than appropriate to suggest installing Mozilla/Firefox/etc. If, however, they specifically ask "What can I do to fix this problem with Internet Explorer?", recommending a different browser both ignores the question at hand and makes the answerer look like an ass.
posted by Danelope at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2004
I think the sort of answers provided depends on the nature of the question, really. If someone says, "I'm having all kinds of spyware issues on my Windows computer using Internet Explorer. What can I do to make my machine more secure?", I feel it is more than appropriate to suggest installing Mozilla/Firefox/etc. If, however, they specifically ask "What can I do to fix this problem with Internet Explorer?", recommending a different browser both ignores the question at hand and makes the answerer look like an ass.
posted by Danelope at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2004
Wouldn't this be more appropriate for MetaTalk?
Oh wait...
posted by Slagman at 9:51 PM on March 4, 2004
Oh wait...
posted by Slagman at 9:51 PM on March 4, 2004
Another vote against.
My rationale is I see Ask Metafilter as an extension of the community filtering process of Metafilter Proper, except that we aren't filtering just the web, we're filtering each other's knowledge and memories. The questions are just a seed for providing a thread full of meaningful data, to me. Yeah, they also help people figure out how to get glass out of their underwear, but the specific parameters of the question aren't, if you ask me, as important as getting a lot of good information that can be found through a keyword search.
posted by Hildago at 10:32 PM on March 4, 2004
My rationale is I see Ask Metafilter as an extension of the community filtering process of Metafilter Proper, except that we aren't filtering just the web, we're filtering each other's knowledge and memories. The questions are just a seed for providing a thread full of meaningful data, to me. Yeah, they also help people figure out how to get glass out of their underwear, but the specific parameters of the question aren't, if you ask me, as important as getting a lot of good information that can be found through a keyword search.
posted by Hildago at 10:32 PM on March 4, 2004
I regularly restrain myself from joking around on AskMe, or engaging in aimless chat, although I do offer information sometimes that is perhaps a bit tangential. Serendipity, as others have noted, can be a good thing.
This is the way I would have others behave as well, and for the most part, they do. I don't think anything's broken, but vigilance is a good thing so that we don't abuse our little pony.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:53 PM on March 4, 2004
This is the way I would have others behave as well, and for the most part, they do. I don't think anything's broken, but vigilance is a good thing so that we don't abuse our little pony.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:53 PM on March 4, 2004
Some people feel that their "whole other way" response is a way of "just helping out."
I said that sometimes this is appropriate. But when oblique responses take up the whole thread, it's less valuable. If someone asks what's the best way to put out their flaming hair, you do well to point out the nearest swimming pool. Perhaps not what they were expecting, but helpful.
Sometimes, the answers are less than helpful.
If you ask, for example, "Which brand of lube is fragrant and comfortable?"
and you get the following answers:
"If your lady has troube lubricating, maybe you're in the wrong relationship, ever think of that?"
"I try to keep my facial hair trimmed because my wife thinks it's a turn off."
"Try classical music and a glass of wine to set the mood."
...then you've maybe gotten some good classical music recommendations, but whoopty doo. You still haven't gotten help with your question, which is the whole point. People shouldn't make too many assumptions about the conditions surrounding the question.
I'm not saying that the best answer is never outside the scope of the question. Often the questions are badly framed, missing key info, or askew the real issue. In this case, casting the response net a bit wide is fine.
But I think I'm near the mark when I say that if the from-the-hip bullshit responses outnumber the informed, on target ones, this service is less worthwile. We're certainly not there yet, but this is still a worthwile reminder.
When it comes up again in a month I'll say the same thing.
posted by scarabic at 12:30 AM on March 5, 2004
I said that sometimes this is appropriate. But when oblique responses take up the whole thread, it's less valuable. If someone asks what's the best way to put out their flaming hair, you do well to point out the nearest swimming pool. Perhaps not what they were expecting, but helpful.
Sometimes, the answers are less than helpful.
If you ask, for example, "Which brand of lube is fragrant and comfortable?"
and you get the following answers:
"If your lady has troube lubricating, maybe you're in the wrong relationship, ever think of that?"
"I try to keep my facial hair trimmed because my wife thinks it's a turn off."
"Try classical music and a glass of wine to set the mood."
...then you've maybe gotten some good classical music recommendations, but whoopty doo. You still haven't gotten help with your question, which is the whole point. People shouldn't make too many assumptions about the conditions surrounding the question.
I'm not saying that the best answer is never outside the scope of the question. Often the questions are badly framed, missing key info, or askew the real issue. In this case, casting the response net a bit wide is fine.
But I think I'm near the mark when I say that if the from-the-hip bullshit responses outnumber the informed, on target ones, this service is less worthwile. We're certainly not there yet, but this is still a worthwile reminder.
When it comes up again in a month I'll say the same thing.
posted by scarabic at 12:30 AM on March 5, 2004
I regularly restrain myself from joking around on AskMe, or engaging in aimless chat
Me too, Chris, me too. Though sometimes it's not easy - oh not easy at all. I mean questions like the recent "My butt hurts. Any suggestions?", however legitimate, are like the Devil Himself preying on our most regrettable instincts, are they not? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:59 AM on March 5, 2004
Me too, Chris, me too. Though sometimes it's not easy - oh not easy at all. I mean questions like the recent "My butt hurts. Any suggestions?", however legitimate, are like the Devil Himself preying on our most regrettable instincts, are they not? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:59 AM on March 5, 2004
I agree about serendipity and the value of answers that widen the field of vision, but I think ook's second part is valid:
The answer is just plain incorrect. Usually this is because the answerer misunderstood the question -- which is fine -- but often it's because the answerer has no idea what he's talking about, but felt like posting anyway.
I remember in a response to a language question somebody confidently said "It's Arabic" when it wasn't at all. Why would somebody try to answer a question when they clearly don't know what they're talking about? Let's try to be aware of our limitations.
posted by languagehat at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2004
The answer is just plain incorrect. Usually this is because the answerer misunderstood the question -- which is fine -- but often it's because the answerer has no idea what he's talking about, but felt like posting anyway.
I remember in a response to a language question somebody confidently said "It's Arabic" when it wasn't at all. Why would somebody try to answer a question when they clearly don't know what they're talking about? Let's try to be aware of our limitations.
posted by languagehat at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2004
The questions are just a seed for providing a thread full of meaningful data
See, this I find interesting: most of the AskMe suggestions I've seen so far have been the sort of thing that would make it more targeted: we wanted the questioner to be able to flag one of the responses as the "correct" one, for example.
I've been looking at it more from the point of view of the one person asking the question, who just wants an answer to that question, than of the n people reading the thread, who just want something entertaining to read during their coffee break. But based on the overwhelming response here, I guess that was the wrong impression. So, I and my apple butter stand corrected. It's too uncomfortable to sit, anyway, with all this glass in my underwear.
Even given that, though, I still think there's a difference between an oblique response that might still be of some use to the person asking the question, and one that's maybe topically related but not actually helpful. (Thank you, scarabic; you've done a much better job of explaining this than I have.) And I still think a direct response is best of all -- especially if it happens to be correct. Not a call to action, not a "this pony is broken and we must implement a technological fix immediately!" Just an attempt to nudge the signal-to-noise ratio in the right direction.
posted by ook at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2004
See, this I find interesting: most of the AskMe suggestions I've seen so far have been the sort of thing that would make it more targeted: we wanted the questioner to be able to flag one of the responses as the "correct" one, for example.
I've been looking at it more from the point of view of the one person asking the question, who just wants an answer to that question, than of the n people reading the thread, who just want something entertaining to read during their coffee break. But based on the overwhelming response here, I guess that was the wrong impression. So, I and my apple butter stand corrected. It's too uncomfortable to sit, anyway, with all this glass in my underwear.
Even given that, though, I still think there's a difference between an oblique response that might still be of some use to the person asking the question, and one that's maybe topically related but not actually helpful. (Thank you, scarabic; you've done a much better job of explaining this than I have.) And I still think a direct response is best of all -- especially if it happens to be correct. Not a call to action, not a "this pony is broken and we must implement a technological fix immediately!" Just an attempt to nudge the signal-to-noise ratio in the right direction.
posted by ook at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2004
I look at AskMe as a Q&A resource that will be visited by people who have similar questions in the future. Maybe this isn't the best way to approach it but I think it works well. For instance, someone asked about online references to Japanese gardens/architecture. The first bunch of posts were links to books on the subjects (mine was one of them). I think it's safe to say that those posters read the question just fine but didn't know of any online forum for the topic so they posted something they thought would be useful anyway.
Though yes, they weren't really answering the exact question, I hardly think they're (our) posts were out of line and just "well, I don't know the answer but I'm in a postin' mood".
posted by dobbs at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2004
Though yes, they weren't really answering the exact question, I hardly think they're (our) posts were out of line and just "well, I don't know the answer but I'm in a postin' mood".
posted by dobbs at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2004
I think that there's a difference between just adding witty banter to an AskMe thread and sort of obliquely trying to provide a type of answer that maybe isn't THE answer. One of the early things we learn in library school was that the questions people ask of librarians [and I bet here it's not too much different] are often not the best way of getting at solving their information need. There are whole blogs devited to this type of bothced interaction, my favorite being when someone came up to me at the desk and said "Do you have any books on caves?" when the real information need was finding geology books on cave formations for writing a sophmore level paper. Why the weird question? Who knows, people are weird, they tend to like to not overexplain too much.
So, an AskMe user who was besieged with pop-ups in IE might ask how to get rid of them, and the "best" answer might well be to switch to Mozilla. Or someone wants the provenance of a quotation and the "best" answer is "People say that so and so said it, but that's probably apocryphal" One of the things we saw people doing in Google Answers as it got more and more popular was that they would not only ask a question but they would semi-outline what they were looking for in terms of an answer beforehand. "I want links" "I want to hear from people who have done this/been there/had this problem only" "I want the exact quote" etc. This was, of course, more important because people were expected to *pay* for answers received, not just say "hey thanks!"
So, some of the onus is on the question asker to pose the question in such a way that a) people understand the question asker's idea of the problem, and their level of knowledge b) people can gauge the quesion-asker's idea of what is needed to solve the problem c) people know that the asker has zero-tolerance for non-answers. You see this in PC threads. People say "don't tell me to buy a Mac" and then at least anyone who says that is clearly out of line.
The askers, for their part, if they want to, can do more to make it clear that they understand the question, make it clear how they know the answer ["I have a kid myself" "I am a graphic designer" "I have met mathowie personally"] and make it clear what other avenues the questioner might take if they were so inclined.
The great thing about AskMe, is that often the question-asker is involved in the actual thread [this was not at all a feature of the sucky Google Answers] so if you feel, ook, like people are going off-topic in a way that is unhelpful or annoying, you can get back in the thread and try to straighten it out. I agree that at some level the thread is for MeFiers posterity as well as right now, but the person who asks the question is in the best position to help guide the thread so that they can get their question answered.
posted by jessamyn at 1:52 PM on March 5, 2004 [1 favorite]
So, an AskMe user who was besieged with pop-ups in IE might ask how to get rid of them, and the "best" answer might well be to switch to Mozilla. Or someone wants the provenance of a quotation and the "best" answer is "People say that so and so said it, but that's probably apocryphal" One of the things we saw people doing in Google Answers as it got more and more popular was that they would not only ask a question but they would semi-outline what they were looking for in terms of an answer beforehand. "I want links" "I want to hear from people who have done this/been there/had this problem only" "I want the exact quote" etc. This was, of course, more important because people were expected to *pay* for answers received, not just say "hey thanks!"
So, some of the onus is on the question asker to pose the question in such a way that a) people understand the question asker's idea of the problem, and their level of knowledge b) people can gauge the quesion-asker's idea of what is needed to solve the problem c) people know that the asker has zero-tolerance for non-answers. You see this in PC threads. People say "don't tell me to buy a Mac" and then at least anyone who says that is clearly out of line.
The askers, for their part, if they want to, can do more to make it clear that they understand the question, make it clear how they know the answer ["I have a kid myself" "I am a graphic designer" "I have met mathowie personally"] and make it clear what other avenues the questioner might take if they were so inclined.
The great thing about AskMe, is that often the question-asker is involved in the actual thread [this was not at all a feature of the sucky Google Answers] so if you feel, ook, like people are going off-topic in a way that is unhelpful or annoying, you can get back in the thread and try to straighten it out. I agree that at some level the thread is for MeFiers posterity as well as right now, but the person who asks the question is in the best position to help guide the thread so that they can get their question answered.
posted by jessamyn at 1:52 PM on March 5, 2004 [1 favorite]
Until MeFi becomes pay by the byte, it's your responsibility to separate wheat from chaff.
Next thing you know people will be writing Dear Abby asking her to stop going off topic.
posted by shepd at 9:45 PM on March 5, 2004
Next thing you know people will be writing Dear Abby asking her to stop going off topic.
posted by shepd at 9:45 PM on March 5, 2004
Sorry, ook, you know I like ya, but I couldn't resist ;-)
posted by Shane at 6:32 AM on March 8, 2004
posted by Shane at 6:32 AM on March 8, 2004
No no no, I meant more signal, less noise, not the other way 'round.
Now watch; this will happen. And this already is.
posted by ook at 7:17 AM on March 8, 2004
Now watch; this will happen. And this already is.
posted by ook at 7:17 AM on March 8, 2004
Now watch; this will happen. And this already is.
Heh! I feel bad already. Blaming signal on me is quite a guilt trip!
Shutting up now.
posted by Shane at 8:21 AM on March 8, 2004
Heh! I feel bad already. Blaming signal on me is quite a guilt trip!
Shutting up now.
posted by Shane at 8:21 AM on March 8, 2004
I think it's okay. For instance, I answered a "how do I clean this?" question with a "Sorry if this doesn't answer your question, but hiring an expert to do it might be cheaper than you think" since I had found that to be the case when I was in a similar situation. My "answer" seemed well-received. You can always skip off-the-mark answers, but you can't read the would-be-helpful ones which weren't posted because they weren't exactly what the question was asking.
posted by callmejay at 10:19 AM on March 8, 2004
posted by callmejay at 10:19 AM on March 8, 2004
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1) The answer is for some question other than the one asked. As in, "How do you do X on a mac?" "Well, here's how you would do it in Windows..."
2) (much less common) The answer is just plain incorrect. Usually this is because the answerer misunderstood the question -- which is fine -- but often it's because the answerer has no idea what he's talking about, but felt like posting anyway.
Does this bother anyone else? Or is it just me?
posted by ook at 2:26 PM on March 4, 2004