Think before you post June 4, 2004 12:47 PM Subscribe
Not on your best day, Metafilter. Wow, just wow. Can we please think before posting?
Why is your link to jonmc's comment? Shouldn't this start with Badmichelle?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:59 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:59 PM on June 4, 2004
Says you. I think it's fine. Give and take. That's what we do here. If you need your conversation to be respectful and polite then you've come to wrong place. I prefer my MeFi with a little passion.
Somebody gets rude and we need to drag it into court. Sheesh.
Of course you seem pissed at the wrong person. Nice going fuckwit.
[I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm sure you're not a fuckwit.]
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:07 PM on June 4, 2004
Somebody gets rude and we need to drag it into court. Sheesh.
Of course you seem pissed at the wrong person. Nice going fuckwit.
[I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm sure you're not a fuckwit.]
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:07 PM on June 4, 2004
Why is your link to jonmc's comment? Shouldn't this start with Badmichelle?
Exactly, anyone who tells me to go fuck myself abdicates their right to get upset over a few dirty words. She wanted to be provocative? Well, she provoked.
posted by jonmc at 1:13 PM on June 4, 2004
Exactly, anyone who tells me to go fuck myself abdicates their right to get upset over a few dirty words. She wanted to be provocative? Well, she provoked.
posted by jonmc at 1:13 PM on June 4, 2004
They're both being cunts. Next?
posted by The God Complex at 1:21 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 1:21 PM on June 4, 2004
"She started it." How eighth grade of you. Nobody should defend badmichelle's comment. But nobody should give you a free pass because you got provoked.
Yes, this thread is about you, jonmc. You responded to an arbitrary personal attack with a worse one - a gender-specific one at that. You deliberately dug a new lowest common denominator. If I'm the only one bothered by this cycle of retaliation, I'll go back into my morality hole. But I doubt it.
posted by PrinceValium at 1:24 PM on June 4, 2004
Yes, this thread is about you, jonmc. You responded to an arbitrary personal attack with a worse one - a gender-specific one at that. You deliberately dug a new lowest common denominator. If I'm the only one bothered by this cycle of retaliation, I'll go back into my morality hole. But I doubt it.
posted by PrinceValium at 1:24 PM on June 4, 2004
PV, I apologized for using the "c-word." (although we're big boys and girls here, I don't think anyone's morals were corrupted). But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
posted by jonmc at 1:27 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by jonmc at 1:27 PM on June 4, 2004
But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
If you feel obligated to "answer" every "fuck you" "hurled your way," you'll never get around to doing anything else.
posted by kindall at 1:36 PM on June 4, 2004
If you feel obligated to "answer" every "fuck you" "hurled your way," you'll never get around to doing anything else.
posted by kindall at 1:36 PM on June 4, 2004
But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
Yes. You don't lose anything for not responding.
posted by eddydamascene at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2004
Yes. You don't lose anything for not responding.
posted by eddydamascene at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2004
We've kissed and made up.
Everybody chill.
Yes. You don't lose anything for not responding.
Except your self-respect. This is a public forum read by a lot of people. It's the internet equivalent of being humiliated in public and as such demanded a response. Then we saw things ecalating and getting ugly and we calmed down.
posted by jonmc at 1:47 PM on June 4, 2004
Everybody chill.
Yes. You don't lose anything for not responding.
Except your self-respect. This is a public forum read by a lot of people. It's the internet equivalent of being humiliated in public and as such demanded a response. Then we saw things ecalating and getting ugly and we calmed down.
posted by jonmc at 1:47 PM on June 4, 2004
*scratches head*
Uh, haven't they both already apologized? As it turns out, BadMichelle is not actually Bad and jonmc is no misogynist.
Well, since that's blown over and everyone's already here, let's discuss something else: what's with the return of Ugg boots on women? Do these cunts really think they look good in them?
posted by dhoyt at 1:52 PM on June 4, 2004
Uh, haven't they both already apologized? As it turns out, BadMichelle is not actually Bad and jonmc is no misogynist.
Well, since that's blown over and everyone's already here, let's discuss something else: what's with the return of Ugg boots on women? Do these cunts really think they look good in them?
posted by dhoyt at 1:52 PM on June 4, 2004
Can we still have popcorn? I've got a DVD of Throne of Blood that doesn't need to go back til tomorrow...
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2004
Except your self-respect.
We are different people.
posted by eddydamascene at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2004
We are different people.
posted by eddydamascene at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2004
But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
that wouldn't kill you, actually.
personally, I'm more than a bit disturbed by the "bitch" and "cunt" insults, they strike me as misogynist, even if the person who hurls them doesn't actually hate women. you seem a decent enough person to know better, jon. stuff like that is beneath you.
This is a public forum read by a lot of people
you don't lose any electronic street cred if you avoid that language. "fuck you"'s are a cheap weapon, used by cheap people. it's their loss, be above that. don't turn this place into a "fuck you" "no fuck you" place -- you make us look like Usenet
posted by matteo at 2:09 PM on June 4, 2004
that wouldn't kill you, actually.
personally, I'm more than a bit disturbed by the "bitch" and "cunt" insults, they strike me as misogynist, even if the person who hurls them doesn't actually hate women. you seem a decent enough person to know better, jon. stuff like that is beneath you.
This is a public forum read by a lot of people
you don't lose any electronic street cred if you avoid that language. "fuck you"'s are a cheap weapon, used by cheap people. it's their loss, be above that. don't turn this place into a "fuck you" "no fuck you" place -- you make us look like Usenet
posted by matteo at 2:09 PM on June 4, 2004
I wish that suitopath was a real word. Maybe the American Psycho guy was a suitopath.
posted by milovoo at 2:13 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by milovoo at 2:13 PM on June 4, 2004
How eighth grade of you. Nobody should defend badmichelle's comment. But nobody should give you a free pass because you got provoked.
"Free pass?" Is that like a hall pass? This whole callout is a little too 8th grade for me. Spank the cunts and the snitch and let's move on.
posted by scarabic at 2:13 PM on June 4, 2004
"Free pass?" Is that like a hall pass? This whole callout is a little too 8th grade for me. Spank the cunts and the snitch and let's move on.
posted by scarabic at 2:13 PM on June 4, 2004
I thought it was cool. We need to call one another cunt more often, I say.
posted by xmutex at 2:14 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by xmutex at 2:14 PM on June 4, 2004
Metafilter: Do these cunts really think they look good in them?
posted by dash_slot- at 2:32 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 2:32 PM on June 4, 2004
I've got a DVD of Throne of Blood that doesn't need to go back til tomorrow...
Ooh, count me in! *plops down on couch next to PinkStainlessTail*
posted by scody at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2004
Ooh, count me in! *plops down on couch next to PinkStainlessTail*
posted by scody at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2004
Except your self-respect. This is a public forum read by a lot of people. It's the internet equivalent of being humiliated in public and as such demanded a response.
You consider being told "fuck you" humilating?
In any case, if you rely on others' opinion of you for your self-respect, you are bound to be crushed on a regular basis.
posted by kindall at 2:39 PM on June 4, 2004
You consider being told "fuck you" humilating?
In any case, if you rely on others' opinion of you for your self-respect, you are bound to be crushed on a regular basis.
posted by kindall at 2:39 PM on June 4, 2004
But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
Dude, the first lesson of internet fu is to let all "fuck yous" go as unanswered as possible, or if you do, use their own force against them, to wit: here.
posted by furiousthought at 3:23 PM on June 4, 2004
Dude, the first lesson of internet fu is to let all "fuck yous" go as unanswered as possible, or if you do, use their own force against them, to wit: here.
posted by furiousthought at 3:23 PM on June 4, 2004
I'm more than a bit disturbed by the "bitch" and "cunt" insults, they strike me as misogynist
Not to re-open an old debate, but this still drives me crazy. Did someone redefine "misogynist" when I wasn't looking?
posted by majcher at 3:27 PM on June 4, 2004
Not to re-open an old debate, but this still drives me crazy. Did someone redefine "misogynist" when I wasn't looking?
posted by majcher at 3:27 PM on June 4, 2004
Except your self-respect. This is a public forum read by a lot of people. It's the internet equivalent of being humiliated in public and as such demanded a response. Then we saw things ecalating and getting ugly and we calmed down.
what a joke. remember when you thought I had something to confess in that metatalk thread and you were WRONG....jon.
so fuck you dipstick.
posted by clavdivs at 3:30 PM on June 4, 2004
what a joke. remember when you thought I had something to confess in that metatalk thread and you were WRONG....jon.
so fuck you dipstick.
posted by clavdivs at 3:30 PM on June 4, 2004
nope, looks the same.
mi·sog·y·nist
NOUN: One who hates women.
ADJECTIVE: Of or characterized by a hatred of women.
So they're terms of affection?
posted by milovoo at 3:39 PM on June 4, 2004
mi·sog·y·nist
NOUN: One who hates women.
ADJECTIVE: Of or characterized by a hatred of women.
So they're terms of affection?
posted by milovoo at 3:39 PM on June 4, 2004
Hates "women" and hates "woman" are different things. I think it's pretty clear that cunt jonmc crossed the line with his unnecessary response to an unnecessary comment, but having read his comments for awhile, he's doesn't seem like the women-hating sort, even if he is a bit of a pretentious cunt when it comes to music and a bore when it comes to political discourse and his rhetoric about left and right ;)
I'd even say that if he called me a limp dick or a weeping penis.
posted by The God Complex at 3:56 PM on June 4, 2004
I'd even say that if he called me a limp dick or a weeping penis.
posted by The God Complex at 3:56 PM on June 4, 2004
Clearly jon is a woman-hater from way back and it's about time some conscientous MeFite has finally trucked over to MetaTalk to report this awful hate-crime. I can only imagine the writhing full-body emotional breakdown Michelle must have suffered upon seeing those bytes on the screen which jon used to commit his awful gendercide.
I'd bet my next paycheck if BadMichelle had called jon a "dick" we wouldn't be having any such debate. Of course, that's different: Michelle is not part of the cruel white male penisocracy that jon obviously embodies.
But seriously: Ugg boots. They're pretty awful, no?
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM on June 4, 2004
I'd bet my next paycheck if BadMichelle had called jon a "dick" we wouldn't be having any such debate. Of course, that's different: Michelle is not part of the cruel white male penisocracy that jon obviously embodies.
But seriously: Ugg boots. They're pretty awful, no?
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM on June 4, 2004
For God's sake the man wear's plaid, how can he respect women?
posted by Mick at 4:30 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by Mick at 4:30 PM on June 4, 2004
A dog bites you after you kick it, and you blame it on the dog?
Who's calling jonmc a dog? HUH!?! :)
posted by adampsyche at 4:56 PM on June 4, 2004
Who's calling jonmc a dog? HUH!?! :)
posted by adampsyche at 4:56 PM on June 4, 2004
This site would be really great if only some people would start getting some nice time-outs...
posted by rushmc at 4:58 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by rushmc at 4:58 PM on June 4, 2004
This is a public forum read by a lot of people. It's the internet equivalent of being humiliated in public and as such demanded a response.
I think what you did was fine. Here's what I did the last time someone told me to fuck myself.
posted by scarabic at 5:39 PM on June 4, 2004
I think what you did was fine. Here's what I did the last time someone told me to fuck myself.
posted by scarabic at 5:39 PM on June 4, 2004
I think it's pretty clear that cunt jonmc crossed the line with his unnecessary response to an unnecessary comment,
Perhaps. Basically I used those words out of a response to the "fuck you" basically as a signal that if she wnted the debate to get ugly, that I was quite capable of it and out of a certain amount of anger at being dismissed publicly by someone who didn't seem to get what I was getting at. Of course I apologized when I realized my points were getting even more obscured by the pointless bar brawl, which is really all this amounted to.
This isn't really a debate over what words are permissable here, it's just two people who lost their tempers, that's all.
posted by jonmc at 6:33 PM on June 4, 2004
Perhaps. Basically I used those words out of a response to the "fuck you" basically as a signal that if she wnted the debate to get ugly, that I was quite capable of it and out of a certain amount of anger at being dismissed publicly by someone who didn't seem to get what I was getting at. Of course I apologized when I realized my points were getting even more obscured by the pointless bar brawl, which is really all this amounted to.
This isn't really a debate over what words are permissable here, it's just two people who lost their tempers, that's all.
posted by jonmc at 6:33 PM on June 4, 2004
Jesus. There's nothing like The Grey to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Y'know, we actually went for a couple days without childish whinging about goings-on in the Blue and Green. Shame we couldn't maintain that level of mellowness.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:55 PM on June 4, 2004
Y'know, we actually went for a couple days without childish whinging about goings-on in the Blue and Green. Shame we couldn't maintain that level of mellowness.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:55 PM on June 4, 2004
There are a lot of 'fuck you's being tossed out lately, more than usual, I think. Hell, I noticed rcade tell somebody to 'fuck off' yesterday, which surprised the cunty fucktastic piss out of me, I'll tell ya.
I haven't even read the thread in question yet, so I'm not going to pile on jonmc (or anyone else) or otherwise, but I did want to pipe up and say that with the richness of the language, there are more interesting ways to slap folks around than with the blunt old anglo-saxon instruments (fun as they are).
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:04 PM on June 4, 2004
I haven't even read the thread in question yet, so I'm not going to pile on jonmc (or anyone else) or otherwise, but I did want to pipe up and say that with the richness of the language, there are more interesting ways to slap folks around than with the blunt old anglo-saxon instruments (fun as they are).
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:04 PM on June 4, 2004
This isn't really a debate over what words are permissable here, it's just two people who lost their tempers, that's all.
You responded to an arbitrary personal attack with a worse one - a gender-specific one at that. You deliberately dug a new lowest common denominator.
Nope, it's a debate about what's permissible.
posted by y2karl at 7:08 PM on June 4, 2004
You responded to an arbitrary personal attack with a worse one - a gender-specific one at that. You deliberately dug a new lowest common denominator.
Nope, it's a debate about what's permissible.
posted by y2karl at 7:08 PM on June 4, 2004
Nope, it's a debate about what's permissible.
Then I'd be interested in the logic behind defending "fuck you, jonnmc" versus "not on your best day, bitch."
We'll leave the "c-word"out since I already admitted that was over the line.
I do maintain that someone who opens a debate with personally directed obscenities has abdicated their right to expect civility. And don't hand me "gender-specific," if she was a man I'd have been happy to call her a prick or a bastard, which wouldn't have resulted in a trip to MeTa.
posted by jonmc at 7:19 PM on June 4, 2004
Then I'd be interested in the logic behind defending "fuck you, jonnmc" versus "not on your best day, bitch."
We'll leave the "c-word"out since I already admitted that was over the line.
I do maintain that someone who opens a debate with personally directed obscenities has abdicated their right to expect civility. And don't hand me "gender-specific," if she was a man I'd have been happy to call her a prick or a bastard, which wouldn't have resulted in a trip to MeTa.
posted by jonmc at 7:19 PM on June 4, 2004
the "c-word"? Fuck off.
We can do without all this stupid gender-studies bollocks, too.
posted by reklaw at 7:24 PM on June 4, 2004
We can do without all this stupid gender-studies bollocks, too.
posted by reklaw at 7:24 PM on June 4, 2004
We can do without all this stupid gender-studies bollocks, too.
Well, at least you're British. I get annoyed at Americans saying shit like "bollocks" and "bloody hell."* It's possibly the most pretentious move inthe universe. And "cunt" is used far mor rarely in the states than in the UK, whre I gather it's the equivalent of "bastard" or "asshole."
I remember a British bouncer in the village getting irked at a (fellow mefite) buddy of mine for saying "cheers," until he was told that my buddy was canadian.
Language, it's a motherfucker.
posted by jonmc at 7:41 PM on June 4, 2004
Well, at least you're British. I get annoyed at Americans saying shit like "bollocks" and "bloody hell."* It's possibly the most pretentious move inthe universe. And "cunt" is used far mor rarely in the states than in the UK, whre I gather it's the equivalent of "bastard" or "asshole."
I remember a British bouncer in the village getting irked at a (fellow mefite) buddy of mine for saying "cheers," until he was told that my buddy was canadian.
Language, it's a motherfucker.
posted by jonmc at 7:41 PM on June 4, 2004
I have a new entry on my Anal Twit list!
Oh, and xmutex: You're such a cunt!
Finally, jonmc, 'cunt' is very heavily used in the American South, albeit among the belles. ;-P
posted by mischief at 7:57 PM on June 4, 2004
Oh, and xmutex: You're such a cunt!
Finally, jonmc, 'cunt' is very heavily used in the American South, albeit among the belles. ;-P
posted by mischief at 7:57 PM on June 4, 2004
The new mobs are muscling the old weak mafia out of the way, thats all. One for one, we will win. Stand together, fight for your rights. Stand up with me and we will rule.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:06 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:06 PM on June 4, 2004
Ok...as one of the few in this boys club that have one (of my own...not just one I'm allowed to visit periodically)...I'd like to hereby take-back the word "cunt". Just as gay men were able to take back the words fag and queer and adopt them for use.
Kate Millett sums up the word's uniquely despised status: "Somehow every indignity the female suffers ultimately comes to be symbolized in a sexuality that is held to be her responsibility, her shame[.] It can be summarized in one four-letter word. And the word is not fuck, it's cunt. Our self-contempt originates in this: in knowing we are cunt".
Jonathon Green concurs that "the slang terms for the vagina outstrip any rivals, and certainly those for the penis[.] They encompass what is generally acknowledged as the most injurious of monosyllabic epithets.
This objectification and denigration of a woman's genitals is so pervasive that we've created a culture where the value of women has also become denigrated as we are the "carriers of cunt".
Well, to borrow a phrase....fuck that. I stand alongside Inga Muscio as she calls every woman to be the Cuntlovin’ Ruler of Her Sexual Universe.
Cunt. I have one.
Cunt. I'm very fond of it.
Cunt. I'm not ashamed of it.
Cunt brought you into this world.
Cunt can't hurt me. I own it. I revel in it. You can't demean me with your vaginal fears.
There. I feel better. Cunt as a derogatory is one of my personal pet peeves.
posted by dejah420 at 9:50 PM on June 4, 2004
Kate Millett sums up the word's uniquely despised status: "Somehow every indignity the female suffers ultimately comes to be symbolized in a sexuality that is held to be her responsibility, her shame[.] It can be summarized in one four-letter word. And the word is not fuck, it's cunt. Our self-contempt originates in this: in knowing we are cunt".
Jonathon Green concurs that "the slang terms for the vagina outstrip any rivals, and certainly those for the penis[.] They encompass what is generally acknowledged as the most injurious of monosyllabic epithets.
This objectification and denigration of a woman's genitals is so pervasive that we've created a culture where the value of women has also become denigrated as we are the "carriers of cunt".
Well, to borrow a phrase....fuck that. I stand alongside Inga Muscio as she calls every woman to be the Cuntlovin’ Ruler of Her Sexual Universe.
Cunt. I have one.
Cunt. I'm very fond of it.
Cunt. I'm not ashamed of it.
Cunt brought you into this world.
Cunt can't hurt me. I own it. I revel in it. You can't demean me with your vaginal fears.
There. I feel better. Cunt as a derogatory is one of my personal pet peeves.
posted by dejah420 at 9:50 PM on June 4, 2004
Good for you, Dejah. What's revealing is that the word doesn't denote anything other than the vagina. It's not metaphorical. It doesn't compare the vagina unfavorably to anything. The simple message is that a vagina is inherently a bad thing and a very bad thing to call another person. "Dick" is similar in this respect, and it's also revealing that it's not nearly as insulting.
There was a scene in "Boys on the Side", a very sentimental movie that I, nevertheless, quite enjoyed, where Whoopi Goldberg (playing a lesbian) similarly tries to take back ownership of the word "cunt".
But of course we should recognize that until the word cunt is largely stripped of its highly negative connotation in the culture at large it is not appopriate for anyone to use the word where they are not signaling a very benign intent either by context or by their identity. This is true of nigger (God, I hate saying or typing that word) even though there are a number of people attempting to take cultural possession of or alter it; and quite a few people who, in context or by their identity, make it clear that they are not using it as a racist insult. So until you're more succesful in your efforts, Dejah, I wouldn't recommend that the average male casually use the word "cunt" and claim that it's not insulting.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:01 PM on June 4, 2004
There was a scene in "Boys on the Side", a very sentimental movie that I, nevertheless, quite enjoyed, where Whoopi Goldberg (playing a lesbian) similarly tries to take back ownership of the word "cunt".
But of course we should recognize that until the word cunt is largely stripped of its highly negative connotation in the culture at large it is not appopriate for anyone to use the word where they are not signaling a very benign intent either by context or by their identity. This is true of nigger (God, I hate saying or typing that word) even though there are a number of people attempting to take cultural possession of or alter it; and quite a few people who, in context or by their identity, make it clear that they are not using it as a racist insult. So until you're more succesful in your efforts, Dejah, I wouldn't recommend that the average male casually use the word "cunt" and claim that it's not insulting.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:01 PM on June 4, 2004
But... but... trharlan called everybody a dick just one MeTa thread up from this one. Does that mean he hates men? Or perhaps it was a compliment: "You guys are all fine, firm rods of shapely pink steel." I dunno. But I do think these things are a lot funnier if you use a variant with more syllables, e.g. what a bunch of birth canals.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:35 PM on June 4, 2004
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:35 PM on June 4, 2004
There was a scene in "Boys on the Side"
This is where I stopped listening. I would suggest we all take time out and listen to the new Streets album. And then watch Sexy Beast.
posted by yerfatma at 8:47 AM on June 5, 2004
This is where I stopped listening. I would suggest we all take time out and listen to the new Streets album. And then watch Sexy Beast.
posted by yerfatma at 8:47 AM on June 5, 2004
I have Sexy Beast on DVD. Also, for example, The Limey. Is everything you write snarky and condescending? I'm just wondering.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:52 AM on June 5, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:52 AM on June 5, 2004
There are a lot of 'fuck you's being tossed out lately, more than usual, I think. Hell, I noticed rcade tell somebody to 'fuck off' yesterday, which surprised the cunty fucktastic piss out of me, I'll tell ya.
I've been staring at my shoes waiting for that to come up here.
When I said "fuck you, Irontom," it was a typo. What I meant to say was "sir, I object strongly to the manner in which you have made this discussion personal and I request that you refrain from such behavior in the future."
posted by rcade at 9:34 AM on June 5, 2004
I've been staring at my shoes waiting for that to come up here.
When I said "fuck you, Irontom," it was a typo. What I meant to say was "sir, I object strongly to the manner in which you have made this discussion personal and I request that you refrain from such behavior in the future."
posted by rcade at 9:34 AM on June 5, 2004
Sexy Beast was good but it suffered the british film technique of tension concerning "gangsters". He should put two in bens' characters head right off then gone back and taken the bloody "place" over. yaya, the thief who is reluctant to kill, but look at the materia which should not interfere with the criteria.
posted by clavdivs at 9:50 AM on June 5, 2004
posted by clavdivs at 9:50 AM on June 5, 2004
Oh no I must type thoughts about the C word. I grew up in the South and my mother taught me it was the worst word a man could ever say to a woman. The first time I heard the word said outloud was after a couple of dates with a boy from New York my first year in college. I had no clue he was using it as a lustful word so I slapped him silly. It 's been a taboo word all this time until I recently got hooked on HBO's "Deadwood" series where it seems every other sentence of dialogue contains the word "cunt". The more you hear any so called bad evil word the less impact it has even though I'm sure it would still hurt my feelings terribly to be called one in anger. But then again so would someone telling me to fuck off. It seems funny the same words which describe such pleasurable things can be so turned around and used to cause such negativity. More importantly:dhoyt:what's with the return of Ugg boots on women? I suspiciously believe you know the answer to this BUT....unlike a $7500 Hermes' bag, UGGs are an affordable "hot" item that sold out everywhere before all the women who wanted them could get them. They don't care how they look in them, but it is important to be a sheep. Blame Oprah.
posted by oh posey at 10:47 AM on June 5, 2004
posted by oh posey at 10:47 AM on June 5, 2004
Holy geez, are we still discussing this? The two principals made up before half the commenters here even started taking positions and readying their spitballs. As for:
There are a lot of 'fuck you's being tossed out lately, more than usual, I think.
I've noticed that too. Hell, I perpetrated one myself the other day, and although it was thoroughly deserved (I don't respond to uncalled-for viciousness any better than your average joe) I would normally have chosen a less cliched manner of self-expression. Must be something in the... hey, maybe Matt's added something to the screen color that increases irritability and lowers inhibitions!
*calls lawyer*
And I applaud dejah420's splendid rant and take the opportunity to link once again to my favorite Joan Larkin poem, ""Vagina Sonnet."
posted by languagehat at 11:01 AM on June 5, 2004
There are a lot of 'fuck you's being tossed out lately, more than usual, I think.
I've noticed that too. Hell, I perpetrated one myself the other day, and although it was thoroughly deserved (I don't respond to uncalled-for viciousness any better than your average joe) I would normally have chosen a less cliched manner of self-expression. Must be something in the... hey, maybe Matt's added something to the screen color that increases irritability and lowers inhibitions!
*calls lawyer*
And I applaud dejah420's splendid rant and take the opportunity to link once again to my favorite Joan Larkin poem, ""Vagina Sonnet."
posted by languagehat at 11:01 AM on June 5, 2004
I'm so ashamed...I didn't even know there was such an animal as an Ugg boot until this thread. I was forced to google them...whereupon I found things like "Ugg boots like the stars wear!" (Woo! I can finally fulfill my desire to be Sophia Loren!...Oh, wait...that means less clothes and barefoot...ok...no Uggs for me, then.)
Really, they look like they might be comfy...but how they became trendy bespeaks a spooky level of sheep like following...as oh posey so eloquently put it. (Of course, I live in a climate where padded, non-functional, decorative boots would just be silly.)
(And my rant wasn't aimed at the original thread, so much as it was one of those "grrr! must get this off my chest" rants about using cunt as an expletive. I'm like that. Ranting...it's one of the things I do best. Well, that and lasagna.)
posted by dejah420 at 11:08 AM on June 5, 2004
Really, they look like they might be comfy...but how they became trendy bespeaks a spooky level of sheep like following...as oh posey so eloquently put it. (Of course, I live in a climate where padded, non-functional, decorative boots would just be silly.)
(And my rant wasn't aimed at the original thread, so much as it was one of those "grrr! must get this off my chest" rants about using cunt as an expletive. I'm like that. Ranting...it's one of the things I do best. Well, that and lasagna.)
posted by dejah420 at 11:08 AM on June 5, 2004
It seems funny the same words which describe such pleasurable things can be so turned around and used to cause such negativity.
That word's power comes from being so reductive, implying that it's the only useful thing about the target. I love profanity but have trouble saying it. I have such a hang-up about the term that I was shocked when Silvio used it on his niece Adriana on the Sopranos before shooting her.
posted by rcade at 11:37 AM on June 5, 2004
That word's power comes from being so reductive, implying that it's the only useful thing about the target. I love profanity but have trouble saying it. I have such a hang-up about the term that I was shocked when Silvio used it on his niece Adriana on the Sopranos before shooting her.
posted by rcade at 11:37 AM on June 5, 2004
I have Sexy Beast on DVD. Also, for example, The Limey. Is everything you write snarky and condescending?
The point was more the use of the dreaded "cunt" in British pop culture. The Limey was solid as well. I found The Long Good Friday incredibly disappointing though. Any other good British gangster films out there?
I apologize for the constant sarcasm. No more from me for a while.
posted by yerfatma at 1:42 PM on June 5, 2004
The point was more the use of the dreaded "cunt" in British pop culture. The Limey was solid as well. I found The Long Good Friday incredibly disappointing though. Any other good British gangster films out there?
I apologize for the constant sarcasm. No more from me for a while.
posted by yerfatma at 1:42 PM on June 5, 2004
I'm not a gender-studies major or anything. I think we can do more to be sensitive of people who contribute to the site, considering we are a well-documented boyzone. But that's all. If this thread was truly unnecessary, then I apologize for starting it.
posted by PrinceValium at 4:27 PM on June 5, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 4:27 PM on June 5, 2004
Any other good British gangster films out there?
The Krays and Mona Lisa are both good. Bellman and True is flawed but has its high moments. More recently, Essex Boys is well above average, Snatch is fun but not a patch on the superb Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Going back further, let's not forget the original Get Carter. And while we're on the subject of films which did not need to be remade, particularly as American films, the original and utterly perfect The Italian Job. Not really a gangster film, much too lighthearted, but one of the great treasures of Western Civilization.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:51 PM on June 5, 2004
The Krays and Mona Lisa are both good. Bellman and True is flawed but has its high moments. More recently, Essex Boys is well above average, Snatch is fun but not a patch on the superb Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Going back further, let's not forget the original Get Carter. And while we're on the subject of films which did not need to be remade, particularly as American films, the original and utterly perfect The Italian Job. Not really a gangster film, much too lighthearted, but one of the great treasures of Western Civilization.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:51 PM on June 5, 2004
I really liked Snatch but haven't seen Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. I've heard that the latter is better than the former—but I've been incredulous since I've thought that Snatch was very good. The main villain, “Brick Top” Polford, is etched forever into my memory. He was fantastic.
Looking at my list of DVDs, I notice that A Clockwork Orange might count, yes? Croupier? Maybe. Taymor's Titus? Heh. BBC's Traffik? Trainspotting?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:12 PM on June 5, 2004
Looking at my list of DVDs, I notice that A Clockwork Orange might count, yes? Croupier? Maybe. Taymor's Titus? Heh. BBC's Traffik? Trainspotting?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:12 PM on June 5, 2004
Nearly forgot: Stormy Monday is far more of a British gangster film than anything that stars Tommy Lee Jones and Melanie Griffith has any right to be. It sounds impossible but it really is. Being directed by Mike Figgis and taking place in Newcastle helps quite a bit, of course. It's also one of the few films Sting has acted in where I've been impressed with his performance. (Though he wasn't bad in Lock, Stock... either.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:23 PM on June 5, 2004
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:23 PM on June 5, 2004
the original and utterly perfect The Italian Job. Not really a gangster film, much too lighthearted, but one of the great treasures of Western Civilization.
Okay, I assume you must be serious, but the cognitive dissonance is too great for me to comprehend your statements sincerely. The original Italian Job? "Utterly perfect"? A "treasure"? Honestly, please tell me you're joking. Please. I beg. Have you seen this film since that one time when you were drunk and on a coke high? Because as someone who saw it recently, sober, and with every intention of enjoying the "lighthearted" work of Michael Caine and Noel Coward, it was heinous. One of the most atrociously lifeless, horrifically unredeemable, depressingly boring films of all time. Awful, awful, awful, awful. Also: awful.
posted by Marquis at 11:51 PM on June 5, 2004
Okay, I assume you must be serious, but the cognitive dissonance is too great for me to comprehend your statements sincerely. The original Italian Job? "Utterly perfect"? A "treasure"? Honestly, please tell me you're joking. Please. I beg. Have you seen this film since that one time when you were drunk and on a coke high? Because as someone who saw it recently, sober, and with every intention of enjoying the "lighthearted" work of Michael Caine and Noel Coward, it was heinous. One of the most atrociously lifeless, horrifically unredeemable, depressingly boring films of all time. Awful, awful, awful, awful. Also: awful.
posted by Marquis at 11:51 PM on June 5, 2004
Oh what a self-serving line we draw between what's "thoroughly deserved" and what's "uncalled-for."
posted by scarabic at 11:55 PM on June 5, 2004
posted by scarabic at 11:55 PM on June 5, 2004
But I'm supposed to let a "fuck you" hurled my way go unanswered?
I usually just say "Ok, fuck me, but here's the point I was making...". Dodge the bullet and it won't hurt so much. Plus your audience will see you as calm and rational while your opponent makes herself look like a looney.
I like this quote by Sharon Salzberg:
Imagine taking a very small glass of water and putting into it a teaspoon of salt. Because of the small size of the container, the teaspoon of salt is going to have a big impact upon the water. However, if you approach a much larger body of water, such as a lake, and put into it that same teaspoonful of salt, it will not have the same intensity of impact, because of the vastness and openness of the vessel receiving it. Even when the salt remains the same, the spaciousness of the vessel receiving it changes everything.
In other words, you want to be like the lake instead of the teaspoon. Be spacious and strong. Don't let a little "fuck you" blow your mind so badly. You'll be happier.
posted by boredomjockey at 12:12 AM on June 6, 2004
I usually just say "Ok, fuck me, but here's the point I was making...". Dodge the bullet and it won't hurt so much. Plus your audience will see you as calm and rational while your opponent makes herself look like a looney.
I like this quote by Sharon Salzberg:
Imagine taking a very small glass of water and putting into it a teaspoon of salt. Because of the small size of the container, the teaspoon of salt is going to have a big impact upon the water. However, if you approach a much larger body of water, such as a lake, and put into it that same teaspoonful of salt, it will not have the same intensity of impact, because of the vastness and openness of the vessel receiving it. Even when the salt remains the same, the spaciousness of the vessel receiving it changes everything.
In other words, you want to be like the lake instead of the teaspoon. Be spacious and strong. Don't let a little "fuck you" blow your mind so badly. You'll be happier.
posted by boredomjockey at 12:12 AM on June 6, 2004
(Instead of the little glass of water, I meant.)
posted by boredomjockey at 12:14 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by boredomjockey at 12:14 AM on June 6, 2004
Wait! Stop right there...!
[gets down on hands and knees, wiggles long, winding line from one corner of the room to the other]
Look here! That comment is on the "uncalled for" end of the room! I hope you don't expect me to take that any better than the average Joe! You know I can't.
And knowing is half the battle.
*GI JOEEEEEEEE*
posted by scarabic at 1:16 AM on June 6, 2004
[gets down on hands and knees, wiggles long, winding line from one corner of the room to the other]
Look here! That comment is on the "uncalled for" end of the room! I hope you don't expect me to take that any better than the average Joe! You know I can't.
And knowing is half the battle.
*GI JOEEEEEEEE*
posted by scarabic at 1:16 AM on June 6, 2004
Could you convert that to metric, please?
Imagine taking a very small metric glass of water and putting into it a metric teaspoon of salt. Because of the small size of the container, the metric teaspoon of salt is going to have a big impact upon the water. However, if you approach a much larger body of water, such as a metric lake, and put into it that same metric teaspoonful of salt, it will not have the same intensity of impact, because of the vastness and openness of the vessel receiving it. Even when the salt remains the same, the spaciousness of the vessel receiving it changes everything.
posted by boredomjockey at 2:39 AM on June 6, 2004
Imagine taking a very small metric glass of water and putting into it a metric teaspoon of salt. Because of the small size of the container, the metric teaspoon of salt is going to have a big impact upon the water. However, if you approach a much larger body of water, such as a metric lake, and put into it that same metric teaspoonful of salt, it will not have the same intensity of impact, because of the vastness and openness of the vessel receiving it. Even when the salt remains the same, the spaciousness of the vessel receiving it changes everything.
posted by boredomjockey at 2:39 AM on June 6, 2004
scarabic, nobody'd said anything to you. You chose to come out of nowhere and blindside me with a nasty personal attack, for reasons which passeth my understanding. I find you in general a fine MeFite and have no problem with you, but if you come up and hit me with a bottle while I'm quarreling with somebody else, you're going to get a knee in the kishkas. Nothing personal. But if you want to continue to seethe, be my guest. Me, I'm going to enjoy my weekend. Mm, I smell bacon!
posted by languagehat at 6:29 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by languagehat at 6:29 AM on June 6, 2004
Here's what I did the last time someone told me to fuck myself.
I know we're supposed to admire you for turning the other cheek, scarabic, but you ruined it by bringing it up here.
posted by rcade at 7:26 AM on June 6, 2004
I know we're supposed to admire you for turning the other cheek, scarabic, but you ruined it by bringing it up here.
posted by rcade at 7:26 AM on June 6, 2004
PrinceValium: I think this thread was unnecessary, and I accept your apology.
posted by bingo at 9:04 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by bingo at 9:04 AM on June 6, 2004
Because as someone who saw it recently, sober, and with every intention of enjoying the "lighthearted" work of Michael Caine and Noel Coward, it was heinous. [much additional approbrium snipped]
Not your thing, then. In answer to your questions involving the influence of alcohol and drugs on my opinion (and thank you by the way for making it personal) I do little of the one and none of the other. As for how many times I've seen it, I've had a copy of the film for at least a decade and have probably watched it ten or twelve times. I suspect it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to explain what I (and millions of others) find admirable in the film -- I think you saw Michael Caine and Noel Coward and went in expecting wit. It's not about wit -- not everything is. 1960s British cinema is an acquired taste -- I suspect you would absolutely loathe anything by Tony Richardson, for example. The dialogue tends to be low-key, halting, and far more is implied than said. If you don't follow the particular period subculture being punctured you'll have no idea what's going on. But enough. If you want enthusiastic reviews of the Italian Job, there are plenty of them on the web.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2004
Not your thing, then. In answer to your questions involving the influence of alcohol and drugs on my opinion (and thank you by the way for making it personal) I do little of the one and none of the other. As for how many times I've seen it, I've had a copy of the film for at least a decade and have probably watched it ten or twelve times. I suspect it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to explain what I (and millions of others) find admirable in the film -- I think you saw Michael Caine and Noel Coward and went in expecting wit. It's not about wit -- not everything is. 1960s British cinema is an acquired taste -- I suspect you would absolutely loathe anything by Tony Richardson, for example. The dialogue tends to be low-key, halting, and far more is implied than said. If you don't follow the particular period subculture being punctured you'll have no idea what's going on. But enough. If you want enthusiastic reviews of the Italian Job, there are plenty of them on the web.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:38 AM on June 6, 2004
The Krays was a very, very bad movie. Mr Spiggott.
besides this site in general makes for better theater.....
Languagehat finds scarabic "a fine mefite" (notice the gang-like connotation) then he threatens to strike him in some spot that is not in english....then it's not personal, just....business.
The Italian Job was a light-hearted vengence tale involving cool little cars and gold. I mean, that speaks for itself.
posted by clavdivs at 10:00 AM on June 6, 2004
besides this site in general makes for better theater.....
Languagehat finds scarabic "a fine mefite" (notice the gang-like connotation) then he threatens to strike him in some spot that is not in english....then it's not personal, just....business.
The Italian Job was a light-hearted vengence tale involving cool little cars and gold. I mean, that speaks for itself.
posted by clavdivs at 10:00 AM on June 6, 2004
I quite enjoyed Gangster No. 1 (though would have preffered Bettany to play the titular character throughout) and Love, Honour and Obey.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:25 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by billsaysthis at 10:25 AM on June 6, 2004
George - I'm very sorry! I didn't in any way intend for you to take my comment as a "personal" ad hominem attack, or anything remotely serious. I was simply surprised to hear a defense of what I found to be a pretty terrible film, and took a late-night opportunity to do an overblown minitirade. Everything was meant in jest. Genuinely - no raised hackles, I hope. I appreciate your explanation of where the film's pleasures lie.
posted by Marquis at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by Marquis at 10:55 AM on June 6, 2004
Any other good British gangster films out there?
Not all gangster, but crime/theives: Performance, The Good Thief, League of Gentlemen, Mona Lisa, Sixteen, The Third Man, The Krays (is a good movie), Brighton Rock, The General...
And I'll have to agree with Marquis; The Italian Job is ca ca.
posted by dobbs at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2004
Not all gangster, but crime/theives: Performance, The Good Thief, League of Gentlemen, Mona Lisa, Sixteen, The Third Man, The Krays (is a good movie), Brighton Rock, The General...
And I'll have to agree with Marquis; The Italian Job is ca ca.
posted by dobbs at 10:56 AM on June 6, 2004
The Neil Jordan film The Good Thief? I watched it yesterday and thought it okay but not worthy of mention. Plus, other than Jordan, what is British about it?
posted by billsaysthis at 11:01 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by billsaysthis at 11:01 AM on June 6, 2004
No hard feelings or anything, languagehat. If I have a point, it's that the nastiness is more silly than anything else. I don't blame you for reacting to me the way you did in that thread. Nor do I blame jonmc, here. But I was jumping into what I saw as a very long, mean pile-on-top-of-stavros, not choosing a completely random moment to launch a surprise blitzkrieg on you. If I am bitter now, it's because no one is cooking me bacon at this moment.
posted by scarabic at 11:15 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by scarabic at 11:15 AM on June 6, 2004
I liked Snatch well enough but found the bongos tiresome at times.
posted by y2karl at 11:43 AM on June 6, 2004
posted by y2karl at 11:43 AM on June 6, 2004
You guys are just referring to Snatch over and over again because you've gotten your hands slapped for saying "cunt", right?
Ahem: I, too, have appropriated the word "cunt", and don't see the point of referring to anything as the "c-word", "f-word" or "n-word" because if someone is meant to understand what the short form means, they've already sounded out the full word in their head.
And I adore Michael Caine and British films of the sixties, but The Italian Job is a badly dated, poorly paced film that makes this woman cringe much more than any repetition of the word "cunt".
posted by maudlin at 12:04 PM on June 6, 2004
Ahem: I, too, have appropriated the word "cunt", and don't see the point of referring to anything as the "c-word", "f-word" or "n-word" because if someone is meant to understand what the short form means, they've already sounded out the full word in their head.
And I adore Michael Caine and British films of the sixties, but The Italian Job is a badly dated, poorly paced film that makes this woman cringe much more than any repetition of the word "cunt".
posted by maudlin at 12:04 PM on June 6, 2004
Thanks, scarabic.
*passes him bacon*
Languagehat finds scarabic "a fine mefite" (notice the gang-like connotation)
Gang-like connotation? I was just trying to say that I generally like the guy. I find you "a fine mefite" too. Wanna make something of it? Jeez, everything gets a guy in trouble around here...
posted by languagehat at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2004
*passes him bacon*
Languagehat finds scarabic "a fine mefite" (notice the gang-like connotation)
Gang-like connotation? I was just trying to say that I generally like the guy. I find you "a fine mefite" too. Wanna make something of it? Jeez, everything gets a guy in trouble around here...
posted by languagehat at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2004
-crunch-crunch-
ya, what the fuck is he even talking about?
posted by scarabic at 12:48 PM on June 6, 2004
ya, what the fuck is he even talking about?
posted by scarabic at 12:48 PM on June 6, 2004
Thanks for all the recommendations (though Netflix really let me down on dobbs' set). I'm going to skip The Krays because of the hyper-violence (it sounds odd to hear myself say that) and the fact I'll be distracted the whole time thinking, "An' then Dimsdale nailed me 'ead to the floor . . ."
posted by yerfatma at 12:57 PM on June 6, 2004
posted by yerfatma at 12:57 PM on June 6, 2004
Yes! I always get a kick out of those.
posted by languagehat at 2:06 PM on June 6, 2004
posted by languagehat at 2:06 PM on June 6, 2004
Bacon? Mmm, bacon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:22 PM on June 6, 2004
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:22 PM on June 6, 2004
Can we please think before posting?
Oh, btw, did I mention... "no fucking way?"
posted by scarabic at 10:59 PM on June 6, 2004
Oh, btw, did I mention... "no fucking way?"
posted by scarabic at 10:59 PM on June 6, 2004
AHHHH
The Lavender Hill Mob
best British heist movie ever.
posted by clavdivs at 7:47 AM on June 7, 2004
The Lavender Hill Mob
best British heist movie ever.
posted by clavdivs at 7:47 AM on June 7, 2004
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posted by reklaw at 12:49 PM on June 4, 2004