Double? Where was the first? October 4, 2002 8:40 PM Subscribe
This was apparently a double-post, but I can't find the original post anywhere on the FP. Was it deleted, or is there just a problem with my browser?
Wait! It was titboy who posted. So I take my apology back!
~goes to bed~
posted by crunchburger at 8:53 PM on October 4, 2002
~goes to bed~
posted by crunchburger at 8:53 PM on October 4, 2002
If you look at LoFi MeFi you can see that the same thing was posted at 3:12pm today and then deleted. And the one you link to is the third instance of it. I think.
My head hurts now. I go bye bye.
posted by gummi at 8:59 PM on October 4, 2002
My head hurts now. I go bye bye.
posted by gummi at 8:59 PM on October 4, 2002
Well, the description for the original post was kind of vague, but it is infuriating to see the same story double-posted for the 3rd time (IIRC) in the last two days. It just seems that people aren't even reading the posts anymore before posting.
posted by gyc at 9:00 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by gyc at 9:00 PM on October 4, 2002
I think this was actually a
TRIPLE POST! TRIPLE POST! TRIPLE POST!
Wow. And there were at least
THREE OTHER DOUBLE-POSTS
today. I usually, don't harp on these things, but
WOW. WOW. WOW!
posted by Shane at 10:43 PM on October 4, 2002
TRIPLE POST! TRIPLE POST! TRIPLE POST!
Wow. And there were at least
THREE OTHER DOUBLE-POSTS
today. I usually, don't harp on these things, but
WOW. WOW. WOW!
posted by Shane at 10:43 PM on October 4, 2002
I wanted to post a snarky comment about triple posted news, but shane beat me to it.
posted by timeistight at 10:45 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by timeistight at 10:45 PM on October 4, 2002
It was actually quadruple posted -- titboy was fourth. I was third. Disculpe, sinto, tulo lava, sorry.... I didn't connect the description of the first time it was posted, and the second time was pruned before I got it, and I didn't catch it in the same search mentioned above. I really tried, honest...
posted by namespan at 10:52 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by namespan at 10:52 PM on October 4, 2002
Yet when I claimed that deleting a news link results in another being posted later, people didn't believe that could happen despite the now legendary 'vibrating broom' story.
The cause of this is simple to understand. Only the very few (and easily identifiable) read MeFi every waking minute, and thus they can identify every deleted post. The rest of us visit only periodically, and so, we cannot know what has transpired since deleted stories do not appear in a search.
Without enhanced software to handle these issues, they will not go away.
posted by mischief at 10:59 PM on October 4, 2002
The cause of this is simple to understand. Only the very few (and easily identifiable) read MeFi every waking minute, and thus they can identify every deleted post. The rest of us visit only periodically, and so, we cannot know what has transpired since deleted stories do not appear in a search.
Without enhanced software to handle these issues, they will not go away.
posted by mischief at 10:59 PM on October 4, 2002
I'm certain at least two of the links were to the abc.com version of the story (I don't know how many other versions there were, if any). You can always try a search for the actual url..
posted by The God Complex at 11:05 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by The God Complex at 11:05 PM on October 4, 2002
You can always try a search for the actual url..
Wonder if the posting system could warn you of a duplicate link on the preview....
Not that it would have done me any good, seeing as how I used the lowly Salt Lake Tribune....
posted by namespan at 11:19 PM on October 4, 2002
Wonder if the posting system could warn you of a duplicate link on the preview....
Not that it would have done me any good, seeing as how I used the lowly Salt Lake Tribune....
posted by namespan at 11:19 PM on October 4, 2002
I agree with mischief, nobody can read MeFi every waking minute, or wade through the sheer volume of links in a day. One problem I see is that there are far too many posts on the Front Page, forcing many to scan and as a result double-post. A good number of these recently have been news links which were not guideline-material. Clarified guidelines on news links and enforcement (self or otherwise) will prevent mediocre news links from popping up, and decrease the noise on the Front Page. This will alleviate the rash of double-posts and raise the quality of MeFi as a whole.
(ha Ha! Spinning everything into a NewsFi debate is fun! Oh, and by the way, the vibrating broom was not a news link, it was a meme.)
posted by Stan Chin at 11:20 PM on October 4, 2002
(ha Ha! Spinning everything into a NewsFi debate is fun! Oh, and by the way, the vibrating broom was not a news link, it was a meme.)
posted by Stan Chin at 11:20 PM on October 4, 2002
Clarified guidelines on news links and enforcement (self or otherwise) will prevent mediocre news links from popping up, and decrease the noise on the Front Page.
I don't know how this (from the posting page, yet) could be any clearer:
I don't know how this (from the posting page, yet) could be any clearer:
There have been a rash of links to news stories lately, and if you check out some of the linked MetaTalk discussions, you'll see why they often make for poor posts.posted by timeistight at 11:27 PM on October 4, 2002
I wish this was real life and I could do what I usually do when somebody breaks the rules: make them walk the plank.
*flips his eyepatch down and waves his cutlass menacingly*
It's a wonder I make as few typos as I do with my peg arm and only one eye.
posted by The God Complex at 11:29 PM on October 4, 2002
*flips his eyepatch down and waves his cutlass menacingly*
It's a wonder I make as few typos as I do with my peg arm and only one eye.
posted by The God Complex at 11:29 PM on October 4, 2002
...what I usually do when somebody breaks the rules: make them walk the plank.
You find that's better than eternal damnation, God?
posted by timeistight at 11:35 PM on October 4, 2002
You find that's better than eternal damnation, God?
posted by timeistight at 11:35 PM on October 4, 2002
Only the very few (and easily identifiable) read MeFi every waking minute, and thus they can identify every deleted post. The rest of us visit only periodically, and so, we cannot know what has transpired since deleted stories do not appear in a search
Well then for God's sake don't post. It's not like these are really obscure things. Everybody on the web is talking about them. Assume that it's been posted to MetaFilter. Some of these links, I would give you 1000 to 1 odds that they're going to show up on MeFi eventually and probably already have.
The broom was a weird case 'cause Matt kept trying to kill that one every time, but the original duel post is still on the front page.
Nobody's forcing you to read every thread, but if you're going to post, you should at least be scanning the first page.
posted by willnot at 11:39 PM on October 4, 2002
Well then for God's sake don't post. It's not like these are really obscure things. Everybody on the web is talking about them. Assume that it's been posted to MetaFilter. Some of these links, I would give you 1000 to 1 odds that they're going to show up on MeFi eventually and probably already have.
The broom was a weird case 'cause Matt kept trying to kill that one every time, but the original duel post is still on the front page.
Nobody's forcing you to read every thread, but if you're going to post, you should at least be scanning the first page.
posted by willnot at 11:39 PM on October 4, 2002
maybe a better idea(and yes, it would require coding) would be to include 4 or 5 recently deleted threads on the post a thread page..
then people would actually see that the link was already posted.
i'm not sure how matt handles deleted threads, but i would assume it could be automated..
posted by PugAchev at 12:02 AM on October 5, 2002
then people would actually see that the link was already posted.
i'm not sure how matt handles deleted threads, but i would assume it could be automated..
posted by PugAchev at 12:02 AM on October 5, 2002
I don't know how this (from the posting page, yet) could be any clearer
An explanation of why those discussions made for poor posts would have helped. Not to mention an explanation of the difference between those poor news link posts and obscure links discussions that also made for poor posts.
One mistake many casual users of an application make is assuming that everybody else uses that application in exactly the same manner. Many Me-Talkers have the personality type that reads every little rule, guideline and discussion and then jumps all over every little infraction. This little clicque expects that every MeFi user reads every Me-Talk thread and will obey every interpretation of the guidelines that comes from these threads. Talk about living in a fantasy world.
Even with detailed instructions at the point of input explaining why the user should not perform some action that the application itself obviously allows and which action permits the user to accomplish his or her goal, the user is very likely to push forward and do it. The further away from the point of input that those admonishments are placed, the less likely the user will be of even discovering them, let alone obeying them.
Virtually every problem discussed in Me-Talk can be described as 'human nature taking advantage of a user interface that was not designed enforce arbitrary guidelines'.
To put it simply, the application does not meet the specifications.
posted by mischief at 12:10 AM on October 5, 2002
An explanation of why those discussions made for poor posts would have helped. Not to mention an explanation of the difference between those poor news link posts and obscure links discussions that also made for poor posts.
One mistake many casual users of an application make is assuming that everybody else uses that application in exactly the same manner. Many Me-Talkers have the personality type that reads every little rule, guideline and discussion and then jumps all over every little infraction. This little clicque expects that every MeFi user reads every Me-Talk thread and will obey every interpretation of the guidelines that comes from these threads. Talk about living in a fantasy world.
Even with detailed instructions at the point of input explaining why the user should not perform some action that the application itself obviously allows and which action permits the user to accomplish his or her goal, the user is very likely to push forward and do it. The further away from the point of input that those admonishments are placed, the less likely the user will be of even discovering them, let alone obeying them.
Virtually every problem discussed in Me-Talk can be described as 'human nature taking advantage of a user interface that was not designed enforce arbitrary guidelines'.
To put it simply, the application does not meet the specifications.
posted by mischief at 12:10 AM on October 5, 2002
I'm going to try summarizing mischief's entire argument from his last 20 metatalk comments on this subject:
Attempting to control Metafilter is an exercise in futility.
We get it already. sheesh.
posted by Stan Chin at 12:15 AM on October 5, 2002
Attempting to control Metafilter is an exercise in futility.
We get it already. sheesh.
posted by Stan Chin at 12:15 AM on October 5, 2002
Stan: Then why do so many mini Ashcrofts continue to try to control it?
;{P . The ACLU of MetaFilter.
posted by mischief at 12:38 AM on October 5, 2002
;{P . The ACLU of MetaFilter.
posted by mischief at 12:38 AM on October 5, 2002
Only the very few (and easily identifiable) read MeFi every waking minute,
No, we just have fully functioning Page Down keys. And eyeballs -- sometimes even two of them.
posted by mcwetboy at 4:27 AM on October 5, 2002
No, we just have fully functioning Page Down keys. And eyeballs -- sometimes even two of them.
posted by mcwetboy at 4:27 AM on October 5, 2002
No, we just have fully functioning Page Down keys. And eyeballs -- sometimes even two of them
And -- even those of us on Macs -- Cmd-F keys.
posted by picopebbles at 7:46 AM on October 5, 2002
And -- even those of us on Macs -- Cmd-F keys.
posted by picopebbles at 7:46 AM on October 5, 2002
mcwetboy - Posting at Metafilter can be problematic. [shrug] Oh well. I guess it's not for everyone.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:19 AM on October 5, 2002
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:19 AM on October 5, 2002
It was actually quadruple posted -- titboy was fourth. I was third.
Don't take offense at my snarkiness, namespan. It justs means people will jump on me all the more viciously when I finally double-post.
MetaFilter: Live by the Pen, Die by the Pen.
It's all fun till someone gets an ego poked out.
posted by Shane at 8:42 AM on October 5, 2002
Don't take offense at my snarkiness, namespan. It justs means people will jump on me all the more viciously when I finally double-post.
MetaFilter: Live by the Pen, Die by the Pen.
It's all fun till someone gets an ego poked out.
posted by Shane at 8:42 AM on October 5, 2002
No offense taken, Shane. Just wanted to apologize...
Plus, I get to learn this new word, "snarky", which perhaps I can start using in real life...
posted by namespan at 8:48 AM on October 5, 2002
Plus, I get to learn this new word, "snarky", which perhaps I can start using in real life...
posted by namespan at 8:48 AM on October 5, 2002
To put it simply, the application does not meet the specifications
And yet, many decades of computer science illustrate that no application can ever be perfect, meet human needs perfectly, or get things right every time.
Much of the programming I do here is of the idiot-proofing variety (relax, I don't mean you, just you know, the other people), and the old saying "make it idiot-proof and they'll build better idiots" has come true every time. Like the 80/20 rule I can solve 80% of the problems with 20% effort, but getting the rest solved will take much more effort (if it's even possible).
The problem at MetaFilter, even from day one, is more of the Social Weather type. When people show up at any community for the first time, it's never very easy to explain what they should expect, how they should act, and what the place is like. It's more social conditioning and social skills on the part of the participant to figure those things out for themselves. Some get it right off the bat, while others never get the picture. I'm a big fan of context clues, and I tend to lurk in new communities for months before dipping my smallest toe in the very edge of the pond. Others might not have that patience or grow uninterested in a community before they are allowed to take part.
Communicating the social weather of an online place is rarely if ever done well. Can anyone think of communities where it is clear (and that doesn't just mean lots of rules or guidelines, it could just be the mood or content). I think slashdot comes off as a know-it-all geeky news place pretty well. If you look at a random sampling of threads you'll quickly find pro-linux, anti-microsoft talk and the sort of geeky oneupsmanship you'd expect from a room full of former D&D enthusiasts (I'm generalizing and joking, but it's clear, isn't it?). Any other community sites that you've recently learned about but figured out pretty quickly?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:27 AM on October 5, 2002
And yet, many decades of computer science illustrate that no application can ever be perfect, meet human needs perfectly, or get things right every time.
Much of the programming I do here is of the idiot-proofing variety (relax, I don't mean you, just you know, the other people), and the old saying "make it idiot-proof and they'll build better idiots" has come true every time. Like the 80/20 rule I can solve 80% of the problems with 20% effort, but getting the rest solved will take much more effort (if it's even possible).
The problem at MetaFilter, even from day one, is more of the Social Weather type. When people show up at any community for the first time, it's never very easy to explain what they should expect, how they should act, and what the place is like. It's more social conditioning and social skills on the part of the participant to figure those things out for themselves. Some get it right off the bat, while others never get the picture. I'm a big fan of context clues, and I tend to lurk in new communities for months before dipping my smallest toe in the very edge of the pond. Others might not have that patience or grow uninterested in a community before they are allowed to take part.
Communicating the social weather of an online place is rarely if ever done well. Can anyone think of communities where it is clear (and that doesn't just mean lots of rules or guidelines, it could just be the mood or content). I think slashdot comes off as a know-it-all geeky news place pretty well. If you look at a random sampling of threads you'll quickly find pro-linux, anti-microsoft talk and the sort of geeky oneupsmanship you'd expect from a room full of former D&D enthusiasts (I'm generalizing and joking, but it's clear, isn't it?). Any other community sites that you've recently learned about but figured out pretty quickly?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:27 AM on October 5, 2002
Okay, I'm really not trying to up my count here, but this has to be identified:
Metafilter: It's all fun till someone gets an ego poked out.
posted by rushmc at 3:11 PM on October 5, 2002
Metafilter: It's all fun till someone gets an ego poked out.
posted by rushmc at 3:11 PM on October 5, 2002
It seemed pretty obvious to me what the social weather at Fark is - sophomoric and smartassed, with tiresome pr0n links looming in the forecast. Alas, meepzorp struck me as much the same. (Sorry quonsar, I love your comments and links here on MeFi but I can't find enough good stuff at your site to add it to my must-read list.) Kuro5hin, a kind of freaky cross between livejournal and /. - here be dragons! Plastic.com - the name says it all. The place to find wannabe Salon writers. That's what my internet weather report turned up, Matt.
posted by Lynsey at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2002
posted by Lynsey at 10:42 PM on October 5, 2002
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posted by crunchburger at 8:50 PM on October 4, 2002