tell me this is a joke August 20, 2003 9:30 PM   Subscribe

insomnyuk is back? Matt, tell me this is a joke. This guy went balistic on multiple threads for days AND spammed the comment section of my own blog for days and now he's back posting to metafilter? What the hell do you have to do to get banned from here?
posted by skallas to Bugs at 9:30 PM (159 comments total)

He's paid his debt to our society. Let it go.
posted by timeistight at 9:33 PM on August 20, 2003


This just pisses me off, an obviously unbalanced punk who holds grudges for what was close to a week is now back with such an insightful comment as "Them dems are just as bad as them GOPs."

Bravo. We need more nutcases here. I spent more than a couple hours blocking his multiple IP attacks and cleaning out greymatter's comment section from his admitted attacks on my site.

There are some smart people dying to get on this board, but we keep insomnyuk? Mefites that attack other mefites are now welcome? This is ridiculous.
posted by skallas at 9:33 PM on August 20, 2003


>He's paid his debt to our society. Let it go.

No, lets let him go. It wouldnt be so bad, in fact I wouldnt be complaining if he took off for a while and came back, but during his "downtime" he spent it fucking with my site. That's crossing the line.
posted by skallas at 9:35 PM on August 20, 2003


yeah, maybe you should've emailed matt about this instead.
posted by angry modem at 9:44 PM on August 20, 2003


"...during his "downtime" he spent it fucking with my site..."

That's between you two. Matt's not his nanny, nor yours.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:46 PM on August 20, 2003


Matt, crash is touching my side of the website again. Tell him to stop!!!
posted by Stan Chin at 9:47 PM on August 20, 2003


*pokes Stan*

*pokes Stan*

*pokes Stan*

*pokes Stan*

*pokes Stan*

*pokes Stan*
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:49 PM on August 20, 2003


HE'S DOING IT AGAIN!!!
posted by Stan Chin at 9:50 PM on August 20, 2003


It's not MetaFilter without insomnyuk, Matt.

He stands for freedom and quirkiness and "live and let live", against whining, censorship, self-rightheousness, bullshit, posturing, weak arguments, hypocrisy, lack of a sense of humour. He is the defender of the different, the non-fashionable, the outsiders. Insomnyuk is the real Left. We need him.
posted by quonsar at 9:53 PM on August 20, 2003


Seriously?
posted by angry modem at 9:58 PM on August 20, 2003


I thought Matt's quote was "Insomnyuk, I'm taking you off the site for a week so you can cool down". It's been a week. So he's back, and his subsequent contribution is hardly controversial. Quit whining and take this up with Matt.
posted by dhoyt at 10:08 PM on August 20, 2003


>That's between you two. Matt's not his nanny, nor yours.

How is that between us? I don't even know this guy outside of a name I see on mefi. All I know is some random mefite went crazy and was rightfully kicked off. In the meantime he was doing ever stupider shit. Now he's back with posting privileges. That's just wrong.

Maybe its for the best. Maybe he'll go apeshit on someone else and he'll stalk someone else. Then its their problem right? Matt has kicked out blowhard trolls before, why should this guy get a break?
posted by skallas at 10:09 PM on August 20, 2003


"How is that between us?"

How does it involve Matt, or Metafilter? Whether or not you're both members of Mefi is immaterial to what he may have done on your site. Matt's only responsibility here is to police his own site as he sees fit, not to mete out justice for what may happen elsewhere.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:14 PM on August 20, 2003


If you provide a space where others openly harass others (look at the names he called me on mefi alone) you might have some responsibility to help keep things going smoothly by getting rid of the trolls. Bringing them back after they keep trolling off-site seems like a bad policy.

Its Matt's call. He wants guys like insomnuk here. I disagree.
I posted about it. Maybe Matt will change his mind, maybe he won't. I really don't care all that much, but its simply a bad idea.

What gets me is I get emails from some very well read and articulate people who would love to come here but can't get an account but shit like insomnyuk acting like a child for days on end is acceptable.

The guy is a troll who trolls other sites. I'm not one to backup the "mefi aint what it was" arguments, but if the new policy is to allow people like this here then maybe the naysayers are right.
posted by skallas at 10:21 PM on August 20, 2003


not to mete out justice for what may happen elsewhere.

Well. Banning him would not be inconsistent with Judge Matt's previous rulings. If MeFi-related misbehavior on other sites does not matter, why was TheJesseHelms banned? I don't see how harassment of another member via this site and then their personal site is any more acceptable than trollish posting to another community site.
posted by bargle at 10:27 PM on August 20, 2003


>"Insomnyuk, I'm taking you off the site for a week so you can cool down"

Not to mention, what is "cooling down?" Did he just get out of therapy or something? Did he apologize to anyone? I didn't hear anything.

Really now, his "cooling down" time was spent further harassing the person he was harassing here. So when he got bored dicking around on my site for a few days he re-applies, Matt unbans him, and no consequences at all?

Heh, what ever happened to "personal responsibility?"
posted by skallas at 10:32 PM on August 20, 2003


skallas, I know he reportedly flipped out on your site, but that's not part of this site and there's nothing I can do about that.

Chill out, if he so much as sneezes here, he'll be banned for life, he knows he's on thin ice and I'm giving him one last chance.

Again, don't take it personally and chill out.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:35 PM on August 20, 2003


Remember that teacher can't do a thing about the bullies when they wait for you just outside the school grounds.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:38 PM on August 20, 2003


Not to mention, what is "cooling down?" Did he just get out of therapy or something? Did he apologize to anyone? Heh, what ever happened to "personal responsibility?"

What ever happened to emailing Matt with all the questions you just raised? I'm not saying you don't have a point, but your purpose of posting this thread seems to want for a pied piper effect wherein you lead the charge and wholeheartedly expect everyone else to chime in behind you, torch in hand, and cry for insomnyuk's blood. I didn't notice anyone else batting an eye when insomnyuk reappeared--just you.

Again, why don't you just email Matt instead making a great dramatic scene here?

(on Preview: too late)
posted by dhoyt at 10:38 PM on August 20, 2003


Sure Matt, and I'm sure if this happened on Kotte.org or some other popular blog it would be a big deal, but to an ordinary mefite its "tough luck kid, deal with the troll."

>What ever happened to emailing Matt with all the questions you just raised?

I emailed him about the blog shit long ago and got no reply.
posted by skallas at 10:40 PM on August 20, 2003


I think if he were banned for life it wouldn't exactly be an incentive to leave said outside blog alone.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:44 PM on August 20, 2003


Sure Matt, and I'm sure if this happened on Kotte.org or some other popular blog it would be a big deal, but to an ordinary mefite its "tough luck kid, deal with the troll."

Yes, I'm only treating you this way because you are simply "ordinary". I banned insomnyuk in the first place thanks to the emails you sent me pointing out the rude behavior. It seemed like an isolated issue so the person gets one last chance. Let's let them enjoy that last chance and hopefully we'll never have to worry about this again, ok?

Seriously, back away from the keyboard and let things follow their course. I'm sure insomnyuk will chill out if we don't make a big deal out of it, and like I said before, one tiny screwup and the account will be gone forever.

why was TheJesseHelms banned? I don't see how harassment of another member via this site and then their personal site is any more acceptable than trollish posting to another community site.

The stuff TJH did on other sites was much more MetaFilter specific, as he took up the name of MeFi and fan flames, beat dead horses, and played with fire with the intention of turning another community against this one. It's a lot worse in my mind and clearly something specific to this site that was done elsewhere.

Insomnyuk went nuts on another member's blog (which happens fairly often I've noticed), and didn't directly affect the goings on here.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:53 PM on August 20, 2003


>I'm sure insomnyuk will chill out if we don't make a big deal out of it, and like I said before, one tiny screwup and the account will be gone forever.

I'm all with you there. If someone here lost their temper and apologized then its no big deal. Now this someone spends days being a troll, spends days harassing another member off-site, and never apologizes then its a different issue. I mean, how can one guy have a week long "tiny screwup?" Let's not kid ourselves, you've banned people for a lot less.

If it happened over the course of a few hours, understandable - the world is full of unstable blowhards. But it happened over the span of at least a week, that's deliberate trolling, that's not screwing up, that's not losing one's tempter, that's going out of one's way to be an asshole.

>I banned insomnyuk in the first place thanks to the emails you sent him pointing out the rude behavior.

What emails? I posted here. Seems like the only way to get your ear.
posted by skallas at 11:00 PM on August 20, 2003


matthowie-

my neighbors are smoking again. can you please come take care of the issue?
posted by xmutex at 11:06 PM on August 20, 2003


Oh come on Matt, the whole "its the importance of the site that matters" is a cop-out. This guy doesn't deserve a mefi account. He could teach TheJesseHelms a thing or two.

Regardless, you're not changing your mind and the troll stays. Fine, I can't wait to see the flame fests this little precedent will create on this site.

"Hey I can do whatever I want, Matt wouldnt even permanently ban insomnyk after all that shit he did!"
posted by skallas at 11:07 PM on August 20, 2003


Let's not kid ourselves, you've banned people for a lot less.

Yeah, and usually those people haven't contributed much. In the grand scheme of things, this person has a long history here, and a week-long rampage is still a blip in an otherwise ok history.

What emails? I posted here.

Emails, MetaTalk posts, whatever, the point is you pointed it out to me and I did something about it. Now relax and I'm sure things will calm down.

Seems like the only way to get your ear.

I apologize for being too busy to answer every email, but there's not much I can do.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:09 PM on August 20, 2003


Fine, I can't wait to see the flame fests this little precedent will create on this site.

Two things will happen:

1. insomnyuk goes ballastic again and I ban the account forever.

2. insomnyuk learns lesson, mellows out on the site and nothing too major ever happens again.

I know you're all worked up and you hate the person personally for freaking out on your site, and it's understandable, but take the high road dude, chill out and let sleeping dogs lie.

In the eternal struggle between insomnyuk and skallas, be the bigger person and move on.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:12 PM on August 20, 2003


>Yeah, and usually those people haven't contributed much.

Heh, I've seen his past posts. We're not dealing with a great thinker who's childish behavior we have to deal with because of his great output.

Here's are some new ones.

Yeah, we need more of this here.
posted by skallas at 11:15 PM on August 20, 2003



posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:16 PM on August 20, 2003


MetaFilter: The Eternal Struggle
posted by quonsar at 11:16 PM on August 20, 2003


>In the eternal struggle between insomnyuk and skallas, be the bigger person and move on.

Or you could be a smart admin and take care of the problem posters like you've done so well in the past. I'm impressed by your sense of pity and forgiveness, but this guy doesn't deserve it.
posted by skallas at 11:18 PM on August 20, 2003


Ok skallas. I see the light now. I will ban insomnyuk. Your longwinded argument has persuaded me.
posted by angry modem at 11:20 PM on August 20, 2003


ah, shit. me too.
posted by quonsar at 11:21 PM on August 20, 2003


Matt, why were you so hard on phalkin then? He had a decent posting history and he only porn-bombed a few of us.

It took me less time to track down Phalkin than it did to clean up insomnuyk's mess on my site. Then again he was spam-bombing you too wasn't he?
posted by skallas at 11:25 PM on August 20, 2003


insomnyuk said sorry. Its on his user page, so is everything sweet now?
posted by Tarrama at 11:26 PM on August 20, 2003


"Though I'd be very surprised if it was phalkin - check out his entirely bona fide and cheerful posting history."
posted by skallas at 11:26 PM on August 20, 2003



posted by quonsar at 11:30 PM on August 20, 2003


>insomnyuk said sorry. Its on his user page, so is everything sweet now?

He can also paypal $450 (roughly my billing rate times the time I spent cleaning up HIS mess). That is if he's the paragon of "personal responsbility" as his right-wing posts suggest he is.

I won't be holding my breath. Hypocrisy seems to be in the air tonight.
posted by skallas at 11:53 PM on August 20, 2003


jeez, if matt went around banning assholes for life, it'd be awfully quiet around here.
posted by crunchland at 11:54 PM on August 20, 2003


I sympathise with skallas - in the UK hooligans can get banned from every football ground for violence in one (inexact analogy, but it's the principle of accountability). Skallas & I-yuk would be unaware of each others existence, if it werent for Mefi.

A temporary ban, more off-site misbehaviour (which must i s'pose be deemed undocumented), return in glory (with supporters too). Don't seem quite right to me. skallas is on a hiding to nothing here: complain (and be portayed a whiner), sit tight, and the troll regains privileges (and who is a sitting target next time I-yuk crashes & burns, even if uninvolved?)

There is nothing else to do but chill, skallas. It's a done deal, and an imperfect world. But I get it, mate, I get it.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:53 AM on August 21, 2003


I say place skallas on one week's probation for being overly whiney. ;-P
posted by mischief at 1:35 AM on August 21, 2003


>There is nothing else to do but chill, skallas.

Yeah, I'm done. I wanted to hear Matt's reasoning and I got it. At least I got him to come out of his hidey-hole to address this issue. Of course I completely disagree and have a hard time seeing why this troll should be treated differently from other trolls from the past, but it sure beats seeing insomknyuk silently come back to the site without some controversy.

In the end its Matt's site - his rules. For good or bad. That doesn't mean I can't openly complain about his decisions.
posted by skallas at 1:49 AM on August 21, 2003


Skallas, I would hope you would realize that the more attention you focus on this, the more attention Insommnyuk gets...it really is better to chill out and let things play out naturally.
posted by konolia at 4:14 AM on August 21, 2003


a week-long rampage is still a blip in an otherwise ok history

That's what I keep telling the local magistrate!
posted by backOfYourMind at 4:21 AM on August 21, 2003


And to those folks enjoying pissy little digs at skallas -

I'm sure you'd all be cool as cucumbers if some mefi nutjob DDOS-ed your blog and left you out of pocket in the process.

Christ, I've seen some of the posters above have a full-blown conniption over totally trival issues, but if some dickwit maliciously harrasses someone over the course of a week and it's "ah, stop yer whingin'".

Skallas is obviously pissed off, but he's been very polite (note no threats to cut off his own limbs), and he'd emailed Matt repeatedly about the issue, so as far as I can see, he's well within his rights to bring it up here.

So, in conclusion I call Grade-A, export-quality bullshit on the pile-on above.

Thank you for your rapt attention...
posted by backOfYourMind at 4:46 AM on August 21, 2003


You win some, you lose some skallas, but I have to admit if some knobhead was dicking around with my site then that would nark me as well.
posted by johnnyboy at 5:24 AM on August 21, 2003


Skallas is obviously pissed off, but he's been very polite...

Haha... if you say so.
posted by Witty at 5:25 AM on August 21, 2003


i hadnt noticed insomnyuk had come back , in fact i'd forgotten he'd existed, so thanks for reminding me.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:31 AM on August 21, 2003


Look, I've apologized to Matt for crapping on the filter. Over and over. The stuff with skallas' blog has nothing to do with MetaFilter, and even though I DID NOT DOS his site, he reported me to my ISP. His site never went down, it didn't even slow down as far as I could tell. My ISP has yet to care, and neither should any of you, probably. Skallas, if you have something to say to me about my brilliant rhetoric, send me an email or talk to me in #mefi, this public lovefest just isn't my style anymore.

Again, I'm sorry for causing trouble on this website, and I promise I'll never do it again.
posted by insomnyuk at 5:49 AM on August 21, 2003


Haha... if you say so.

Yes I do say so, give me one example of skallas getting out of order in this thread.
posted by backOfYourMind at 5:58 AM on August 21, 2003


"I'm sure you'd all be cool as cucumbers if some mefi nutjob DDOS-ed your blog"

I've had people shit in my blog over things I've posted here. I'm sure many others have as well. I don't recall starting a MetaTalk thread abut it.

What quonsar said. Skallas is all about whining, "proper" behavior, self-righteousness, posturing, weak arguments, hypocrisy, and lack of a sense of humor. Insommnyuk is pretty much the opposite. Of course they have a conflict. Welcome the fuck to MetaFilter.

Skallas wants to solve this problem by banning Insommnyuk. Who's next? Me? I'm an asshole. I'm tempted to go over to Skallas's blob and pee all over it. Will I get banned for that?

What you seem to be saying backOfYourMind, is that because Skallas is polite, he must be in the right. Which I think is bullshit. What I see is Skallas once again being a whiny prig. I'm sure I could start a very polite MetaTalk thread about how we need to ban him for his attacks against the established order here at MetaFilter. Indeed, Skallas doesn't want justice here, he just wants MetaFilter to be more like it would be if he were in charge. His gripe (which he has been trotting out for years) is that MetaFilter needs to be different. More formal. More conforming. More polite. What an awful idea.

Skallas has a problem on his weblog. And he has the technical savvy to solve that problem. Which he seems to have done. Now he wants to bring the problem back to MetaFilter. How very polite.

Insommnyuk is an ass and we should ban him.
Skallas is a whiny prig and we should ban him.
y6y6y6 is a troll and we should ban him.
backOfYourMind is a clueless nube and we should ban him.
quonsar is a childish attention grabber and we should ban him.
angry modem is completely clueless and we should ban him.
Stan Chin is a trouble maker and we should ban him.
jonson is annoying and we should ban him.
mathowie isn't policing enough and we should ban him.

I'll tell you what - If you ban everyone Skallas doesn't like, this place would suck.
posted by y6y6y6 at 5:58 AM on August 21, 2003


How the hell do you all keep tabs of who you hate? I gave up that fruitless task ages ago and just resigned myself to thinking you're all a bunch of geeky nobheads.
posted by Frasermoo at 6:05 AM on August 21, 2003


I was going to make some snarky and rude statements about the whiny tone of this post and the BackofyourMine comments, but it appears I no longer need to do so.

3(y6), you forgot to list mr_crash_davis. He is a Utahan and we should ban him.
posted by deadcowdan at 6:12 AM on August 21, 2003


What you seem to be saying backOfYourMind, is that because Skallas is polite, he must be in the right.

Ah, so it's bold, refreshing taste of obnoxiousness you're after. Fine.

Ok, fucko, I don't think that Skallas is right just because he's got the sense to present his case in a civil fashion. I just think that it's unfair of other Mefites who should know better to jump all over him when he brings an issue to MetaTalk after he's emailed Matt about it and had no response. I guess that makes me some kind of total prick.

As a 'clueless nube', I'll be the first to admit that I'm not familiar with skallas' posting history. But frankly even if 111 or hama7 were getting this kind of shit for no good reason I'd still think it was fucked.

Happy, you great gaping 'roid-ridden arse?
posted by backOfYourMind at 6:17 AM on August 21, 2003


And another thing - check the full stop at the end of quonsar's post - you rectum-faced bucket of sex-sauce
posted by backOfYourMind at 6:20 AM on August 21, 2003


Quid abigiet ipsos abigodes?

And I swear to Matt, if any of you OCD stoneheads correct my makeshift Latin...well, more power to you, I suck.
posted by Dagobert at 6:20 AM on August 21, 2003


"I just think that it's unfair of other Mefites who should know better to jump all over him when he brings an issue to MetaTalk after he's emailed Matt about it and had no response."

And when does this end? After he's done his whiny thing ten times? Skallas has a habit of bringing his personal gripes into MetaTalk in the most whiny way imaginable. I'm glad it's fresh and wonderful for you. But it's old and smelly over here.

And frankly I think banning Insommnyuk for a week was too much. Going back and reading the "This guy went balistic [sic]" thread, I'm of the opinion that the real problem here has been Skallas all along.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:26 AM on August 21, 2003


You made a whole Metatalk thread over this? I think Insomnyuk feels like a million dollars right now.

He actually showed up to work EARLY this morning. Our boss about flipped out.
posted by aaronshaf at 6:28 AM on August 21, 2003


And when does this end?

When we see skallas post

Yeah, I'm done. I wanted to hear Matt's reasoning and I got it.

I stand by my earlier comments, if someone has a mefi related beef (and being attacked on a blog by another mefi member over a mefi thread counts as a mefi issue from where I'm standing) and gets no joy from emailing Matt then they should be able to post a thread on MetaTalk.

Call me mad...
posted by backOfYourMind at 6:38 AM on August 21, 2003



posted by Frasermoo at 6:47 AM on August 21, 2003


Bugger me dead, after all the bitching, moaning, wailing and rending of hair about how awful it is that everyone's so snarky on Metafilter - someone posts what appears to be a fairly reasonable complaint on MetaTalk and even the card-carrying lefties start shrieking - "Hey, it's a tough world motherfucker, get used to it. A = A etc".

[bra men]And you can keep your fucking puppies[/bra men]
posted by backOfYourMind at 6:58 AM on August 21, 2003


You're losing it backOfYourMind. Steady, STEADY.

In an attempt to satisfy your question to me, I think skallas' constant badgering of Matt is impolite. I think the tone he used while badgering Matt was impolite. I think taking cheap shots at insomnyuk (read: namecalling) was impolite.

You obviously feel differently.
posted by Witty at 7:12 AM on August 21, 2003


even the card-carrying lefties start shrieking - "Hey, it's a tough world motherfucker, get used to it. A = A etc".

Not the card-carrying lefties! What has this world come to?!? Left is right, up is down, dogs and cats living together!

I say ban skallas. I say ban backOfYourMind. Hell, I say ban me. It's a ban fest!

if someone has a mefi related beef ... and gets no joy from emailing Matt then they should be able to post a thread on MetaTalk

Post, yes. Be immune from criticism for said post? No. Post 15 times in the thread, even after a definitive and reasonable response has been given to your request? Hell, no.
posted by pardonyou? at 7:13 AM on August 21, 2003


Skallas: I can see why Matt is naturally reluctant to police behavior that occurs outside of Metafilter. Would you want that job?

Whether he should have done that here depends on how bad the guy abused you on your site.
posted by rcade at 7:22 AM on August 21, 2003


We were supposed to get cards? Where were we supposed to get cards? No one offered me a card... Where the hell is my card, dammit?! I want my card!
posted by crunchland at 7:23 AM on August 21, 2003


You're losing it backOfYourMind. Steady, STEADY.

I'll tell you when I've had enough, dammit!

*smashes whiskey bottle against a wall*

I think taking cheap shots at insomnyuk (read: namecalling) was impolite.

Well, maybe so (why must I be so damnably reasonable?), but I think someone who's just spent a week receiving abusive messages can afford to be 'a little snippy' with the messagee to say the least.

I think skallas' constant badgering of Matt is impolite. I think the tone he used while badgering Matt was impolite.

skallas may have used intemperate language once or twice, but I agree that Matt has banned people for less. The thing that really irks me is that other posters would be so quick to hang shit on another poster who is bringing up what I view as a real issue when there many a more trivial/whingy/pointless MeTa post goes without comment.

It's just plain mean!
posted by backOfYourMind at 7:27 AM on August 21, 2003


pardonyou? - *groan* Alright, alright - Once again I must be a reasonable person (stupid Jiminy Cricket).

Before you get too carried away, my point was - even people who claim to value 'fair play' seemed to be enjoying bashing someone just because it was the 'thing to do'.

Post, yes. Be immune from criticism for said post? No. Post 15 times in the thread, even after a definitive and reasonable response has been given to your request? Hell, no.

Given the dismissive, 'get over it' tone that most people here seemed to have here, I don't think you can blame skallas for wanting to press the issue.
posted by backOfYourMind at 7:36 AM on August 21, 2003


Indeed, Skallas doesn't want justice here, he just wants MetaFilter to be more like it would be if he were in charge.

Funny, I was actually under the impression that MetaTalk was a place to express our opinions about this site, i.e. to give Matt and other members our input, like "I'd do things this way, do you guys agree?".
What's skallas supposed to do, is it suddendly illegal to complain about bad citizens here?

His gripe (which he has been trotting out for years) is that MetaFilter needs to be different. More formal. More conforming. More polite. What an awful idea.

yeah, exactly. I mean, too bad that, say, rodii and holgate are not here anymore, we could ban them for not being good members like insomnyuk.

I mean, let's welcome all trolls, ask Matt not to ban anyone anymore, and let's open the site to new members, ad libitum.
Welcome to MetaUsenet, the perfect home for insomnyuk and his/her/its fans
posted by matteo at 7:59 AM on August 21, 2003


"seemed to be enjoying bashing someone just because it was the 'thing to do'."

Where did you come up with that? I see people bashing Skallas because they think he deserves it.

For whatever childish reason, Insommnyuk took his act over to everythingisnt.com and made things personal. For which Skallas got understandably pissed. But he fixed the problem there and decided to bring it back here. He wants his personal problem to be *our* problem. He has a personal problem which he now expects Matt to deal with. And when he's gently told he's not going to get the love he expects, he turns into a bitchy little tart.

And you wonder why he gets bashed?

Look, Skallas is a computer science student. He knows how to deal with trolls on his own website. And as someone who might end up interviewing him for a computer science job some day, I would think he'd want to give me the impression that he knows a better way to deal with problems than crying to mommy. Hell, I'd like to hear how much *fun* he had rebuilding the software to route around the troll. I'd like to hear him explain how much he enjoyed the *challenge* of some troll who thought he could mess with his weblog.

If I interviewed someone and they told me something like, "Yeah, I had this troll on my website, so I called his ISP and tried to get his account closed. Then I went to a forum he liked and tried to get him banned there." .........

Guess where Mr Skallas's application would go.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:07 AM on August 21, 2003


Call me mad...

Actually, we'll probably be calling you 'banned' once Matt wakes up.
posted by humuhumu at 8:11 AM on August 21, 2003


"I was actually under the impression that MetaTalk was a place to express our opinions about this site"

Yes. It is. Who said otherwise?

You express your opinion and you take your lumps. A consensus is formed. Or not. On rare cases Matt will add his take. And we move on. Skallas aired out his opinion. At length. Now I'm airing out mine. I think Skallas is a whiny prig. And I feel confident that history will back me up on that.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:13 AM on August 21, 2003


Actually, we'll probably be calling you 'banned' once Matt wakes up.

Well, as long as you're not calling me late to dinner...
posted by backOfYourMind at 8:19 AM on August 21, 2003


...or reverse charges...
posted by backOfYourMind at 8:20 AM on August 21, 2003


... or Ahab.
posted by humuhumu at 8:21 AM on August 21, 2003


Insom had a 1 week ban and he actually wasn't allowed back on for 3 weeks.

on preview: post edited for blantant skallas bashing

on even more preview: the Arab?
posted by Stynxno at 8:27 AM on August 21, 2003


...or...where was I?...Oh yes

Where did you come up with that?

Jeez, I dunno, here, here and here perhaps?

Look, Skallas is a computer science student. He knows how to deal with trolls on his own website

And there are plenty of mefi members who aren't. So, they just have to put up with this sort of thing?

On preview: stynxno - Ishmael?
posted by backOfYourMind at 8:29 AM on August 21, 2003


"Jeez, I dunno, here, here and here perhaps?"

Still not sure what you're on about. Those three look like valid and creative responses. They are saying, "Skallas. Lose the whining already. It's not working." It's not just "the thing to do" it's using the context of Skallas's own post to skewer him. You really see this as hooligans pissing in a MetaTalk thread? You don't see how these fit the context of the thread?

"So, they just have to put up with this sort of thing?"

Well, yeah. That's the way the Internet works. If a MeFi user came here and said, "Hey, backOfYourMind came over to my personal website and is making lots of comments just to shit all over my site. I don't know how to stop him. Can we ban him or something?", we'd have a different reaction.

We'd explain that having a public web log is.... well..... public, and these things happen. We'd insist that backOfYourMind explain and apologize. We'd explain that it's too much to ask for Matt to police users off-site. And we'd give you some tips for blocking backOfYourMind's IP range.

But this is Skallas, and some of us feel he's being unreasonable. We may be full of crap, but that's the way we feel. Asking for help is one thing, crying to mommy is another.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:55 AM on August 21, 2003


This is so much fun!!! ;-P
posted by mischief at 8:55 AM on August 21, 2003


Matt - any community driven site has to deal with cage-rattlers sooner or later, unless, of course, you want all on-track participation on the site to end. You can apply the iron boot and make the site less fun to participate in, you can do nothing and watch their wild egos edge out more productive users, or you can do something half-ass, which just gives them more to play with, while undermining your authority. Remember they have nothing to lose.

skallas - having enjoyed your contributions here greatly I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles. I don't see any way for anyone here to help you with securing your own site, though I would probably take it up with my host if I were in your shoes. In any case, I think you did the right thing by pasting the scarlett letter on the boy here, so that we can all closely monitor his "last chance." Now that his probationary status has been highlighted by the supreme being for all to see, you get to enjoy watching him sheepishly toe the line. If he steps on it, we behead him and you get the first bite of his heart.
posted by scarabic at 9:07 AM on August 21, 2003


Ooooh goody cat fight,cat fight
posted by johnny7 at 9:12 AM on August 21, 2003


As I've said repeatedly in this thread, I'm giving someone one last chance, and someone else disagrees, saying that they don't deserve that last chance. In the past, anyone that got a last chance usually changed their ways completely, realizing what was at risk.

In real life, I'm not a patient guy, I can't stand wasting time on stupid shit like this and would quickly cut my losses and move on, but I find the best communities have admins with the patience of a rock, and I'm trying to take the big picture view as often as possible here and remove any trace of emotion from any judgement decision I make.

Look, in a worst case scenario, the person on their last chance will be banned forever, which is exactly what the other person wants. I said "chill out" because they very well may get exactly what they want if they just wait a few days for nature to take its course fairly, OR the alternative is that nothing bad will ever happen again and both will co-exist (hopefully) if people can chill out.

In summation, everyone chill out.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:21 AM on August 21, 2003


I found a VEX rune yesterday.
posted by bargle at 9:22 AM on August 21, 2003


OR the alternative is that nothing bad will ever happen again and both will co-exist (hopefully) if people can chill out.

Metafilter: nothing bad will ever happen again.

I like it.
posted by humuhumu at 9:30 AM on August 21, 2003


Nobody's gonna hurt anybody. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here. And what's Fonzie like? Come on skallas what's Fonzie like?!
posted by signal at 9:46 AM on August 21, 2003


Chilling out. Sorry all.

I think I got carried away there, and I'm sure Skallas isn't the awful person I've made him out to be. People in glass houses and all. I'll try to be good. A round of beers?
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:46 AM on August 21, 2003


Think you can buy us eh?
posted by Frasermoo at 9:53 AM on August 21, 2003


Too little too late, fuck-o.

*brains y6 with an oar, howls with bloodlust*

Don't mind me or my nonsense. I'm punchy as hell today, and just jerking around. I wouldn't really beat anyone with an oar, as I am puny and weak.
posted by Skot at 9:57 AM on August 21, 2003


In real life, I'm not a patient guy

This, I believe.
posted by X8IB at 10:02 AM on August 21, 2003


MetaFilter: Rectum-Faced Buckets of Sex-Sauce
posted by quonsar at 10:10 AM on August 21, 2003


/me takes a cold shower.
posted by mischief at 10:19 AM on August 21, 2003


Look skallas, if you want to drag me through all of this (and it seems you want to since you are apparently watching my every move) why don't you just take it up with me? There's no need to bother everyone here with this stuff. I'll leave MetaFilter forever if you pay me enough money (I'm trying to cover rent for school).

I can be reached at 937-689-5506. Give me a call.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:40 AM on August 21, 2003


Ask for Dan.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:40 AM on August 21, 2003


In real life, I'm not a patient guy

This, I believe.


You certainly seem to be patient, though. How long have you been holding onto that account waiting for the right moment to pounce?
posted by rcade at 10:50 AM on August 21, 2003


Giving out your phone number on MeTa?

You are a braver man than I.
posted by bshort at 10:55 AM on August 21, 2003


*hurries to write down insomnyuk's phone number and submit it to as many do call lists as he can*
posted by Stynxno at 10:56 AM on August 21, 2003


In real life, I'm not a patient guy

wait. you mean this isn't real?
posted by crunchland at 10:58 AM on August 21, 2003


MetaFilter: I'll leave forever if you pay me enough money.

No?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:21 AM on August 21, 2003


DrJohnEvans:I'll accept it.

If you pay me enough money.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:38 AM on August 21, 2003


Look. People do reform. It's happened before.
posted by konolia at 11:45 AM on August 21, 2003


Skallas, we do understand you are upset. I have been hammered to oblivion in virtual public, and it is absolutely no fun. But the key here is VIRTUAL. If your website has been tampered with I trust you know the correct ways to deal with that, but the truth is that anything here is just words on a screen. It really is more satisfying in the long run to let the other person rant, rave and say nasty things, while you say nothing. They look bad, and you don't.
posted by konolia at 11:49 AM on August 21, 2003


In the eternal struggle between insomnyuk and skallas, ....

**Having incredible difficulty deciding who to root for**
posted by jonmc at 12:01 PM on August 21, 2003


I'll leave forever if you pay me enough money.

that's extortion
posted by matteo at 12:05 PM on August 21, 2003


How is it extortion if it is a mutual agreement between friends?
posted by insomnyuk at 12:14 PM on August 21, 2003


In the eternal struggle between insomnyuk and skallas, ....

**Having incredible difficulty deciding who to root for**


It's like when BC plays Notre Dame, and I root for both teams to lose.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:14 PM on August 21, 2003


true, this is "virtual"
but i've been online for 10 years.
some here much longer.

what is real and what is virtual?

the day job is virtual.

personal stuff online can be hard to back away from. but "chill" is excellent advice.
posted by th3ph17 at 12:15 PM on August 21, 2003


How much would we have to pay you?

$5?
$500?
$5000?

And while we're on the subject, how much would it take to send 111 into exile?
posted by bshort at 12:15 PM on August 21, 2003


Double the middle figure and you've got yourself a deal!

We could make it like an Andy Kaufmann banned from SNL type thing. I would donate part of the proceeds to charity, the rest would pay college bills!
posted by insomnyuk at 12:18 PM on August 21, 2003


How is it extortion if it is a mutual agreement between friends?

Because what you're saying is, give me the money or I'll piss all over the threads here. You're asking people here to buy "protection", that's why it's extortion
posted by matteo at 12:22 PM on August 21, 2003


Protection? Is insomnyuk coming to your house to kill your children?

Like the man said, "Chill out." It's a fucking website.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:25 PM on August 21, 2003


Groucho: "How much do you get for not playing?"

Chico: "You can't afford it."
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:26 PM on August 21, 2003


Double the middle figure and you've got yourself a deal!

See, I think matt is right. Its only a matter of time before nature takes its course and you get yourself banned again.

So we should really save ourselves the $1k and just wait it out.

On preview: if thread-pissing happens again, matt has said that he's gone. So insomnyuk can threaten as much as he wants, but he's just full of hot air.
posted by bshort at 12:28 PM on August 21, 2003


Because what you're saying is, give me the money or I'll piss all over the threads here. You're asking people here to buy "protection", that's why it's extortion

Matteo, you're completely missing the point. Skallas hates me. He wants me banned. I am saying that I will leave for money instead, but otherwise I am going to hang around and behave. I'm not making any threats.
posted by insomnyuk at 12:30 PM on August 21, 2003


i'm a bit fascinated by these events... i've only ever seen emotionally unstable teenagers (usually girls) harass a person and their website before. that a long standing member of a relatively intelligent community would do such a thing, for more than a few hours let alone a week, is kinda sad. crazyhuhkookoonuts, really. dan, did you go off some sort of medication that week...?
posted by t r a c y at 12:47 PM on August 21, 2003


i must say, not knowing either skallas or insomnyuk, i don't feel a need to take a side. and the battle between both has made some fascinating reading.

bottom line - isn't this what communities are? like and un-like minded individuals opposing each other.

hell, i'd keep them both here just to see what happens next...
posted by triv at 12:53 PM on August 21, 2003


Goddamn do I love the midday soaps! Anybody want popcorn? I brought popcorn.
posted by furiousthought at 12:58 PM on August 21, 2003


Insomnyuk, if I were you I'd just leave this thread alone and keep a low profile for a bit. It would be too easy for you to get egged on into a banishable event. Much too easy.
posted by konolia at 1:03 PM on August 21, 2003


I dunno, man... it's looking like this sucker may pre-empt the hockey game.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 1:03 PM on August 21, 2003


I think I'll take your advice konolia. Everybody have a nice day.
posted by insomnyuk at 1:08 PM on August 21, 2003


i've only ever seen emotionally unstable teenagers (usually girls) harass a person and their website before

Well, that's what insomnyuk is. He's like 17 and acts like your typical teenager.
posted by bshort at 1:09 PM on August 21, 2003


He's like 17 and acts like your typical teenager

well, as long as he's over-16, he can at least have sex in Wisconsin without being arrested for it
posted by matteo at 1:13 PM on August 21, 2003


This is all getting dangerously close to another insomnyuk attention grab. My advice, insomnyuk, for whatever it's worth, is to sit down and shut up. You're ahead. Quit now.

For once: take the high road.
posted by scarabic at 1:21 PM on August 21, 2003




take the high road

posted by quonsar at 2:10 PM on August 21, 2003


I love how everyone is predicting how insomnyuk is going to react and act in the future, when his posting history is obviously not an indication of how he'll post in the future, judging from past events.

I can see you're all forgiving and benevolent people.
posted by angry modem at 2:26 PM on August 21, 2003


At least neitehr insomnuk nor skallas god the public flogging that would have ensued had they suggested people go to Burning Man.
posted by Space Coyote at 2:27 PM on August 21, 2003


That's a didjeridu, Q, not a pipe.

And yes, angry_modem, you were forgiven for that facial comment, so you can just sit down as well.
posted by scarabic at 2:28 PM on August 21, 2003


didjer ever smoke using a non-pipe implement?
idu.
posted by quonsar at 2:32 PM on August 21, 2003


haha. well met!
posted by scarabic at 2:35 PM on August 21, 2003


Who likes ice cream?
posted by me3dia at 2:39 PM on August 21, 2003


M: I came here for a good argument.

A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.

Always worth remembering when flaming starts to get out of hand...
posted by jasper411 at 2:40 PM on August 21, 2003


I hate it when all somebody can do is sit back and make inane or insulting comments when other people are talking about something that matters to them. Quonsar, et al., it doesn't make any difference whether or not you respect the subject matter, at least respect the medium.
posted by Hildago at 2:45 PM on August 21, 2003


And yes, angry_modem, you were forgiven for that facial comment, so you can just sit down as well.

Whew, thanks. The guilt was weighing me down like a millstone.
posted by angry modem at 2:51 PM on August 21, 2003


It was disgusting, uncalled for, and tolerated. Much like insomnyuk.
posted by scarabic at 2:58 PM on August 21, 2003


How the hell do you all keep tabs of who you hate?
My solution is just to hate everyone equally and fairly, without prejudice.

Those who are complaining about skallas bringing his gripe here need to remember what MeTa is for - this is where you are supposed to bring your gripes. I agree that there is no way users should be called to order for deeds committed outside the community (unless they impact on the community as a whole somehow, as happened with the LGF saga), but skallas had every right to bring the matter up if he felt it needed airing. mathowie has taken the right approach, in my oh-so humble opinion and, as the history of the community has shown, those given time-outs generally either reform and go on to become good members or flame out again and vanish off the edge of the earth. Either way, everyone deserves at least one chance to screw up before being kicked into the abyss which awaits those who live without MeFi (if you can call life without MeFi living).
posted by dg at 3:22 PM on August 21, 2003


You da man, dg!
posted by timeistight at 3:29 PM on August 21, 2003


whininess is never becoming. If you're so worried about the time you spent cleaning up your site, why don't you use a tool that lets you block people? I've had a number of people come from MeFi to my site to give me a smackdown, and I find it fascinating that anybody would think that making it Matt's problem is somehow taking personal responsibility.
posted by anildash at 3:46 PM on August 21, 2003


I just want to let everyone know that I've remembered who Ahab the Arab is.

Just in case anyone thought I was caught napping earlier...
posted by backOfYourMind at 4:22 PM on August 21, 2003


Why do people treat Matt like he's their parent? He's not, and he's not infallible, not every decision he makes is going to be 100% consistent with past decisions. Still I can't think of too many other people who do as good a job of running a community site.

I don't see what the problem is here. If insomnyuk is a problem, then they won't be here anymore. If they aren't a problem, then there isn't a problem.

I also don't think there are too many people who haven't done or said things they regret, sometimes because of major stressors in their life at that time. The "second chance" idea seems fair.
posted by lucien at 5:02 PM on August 21, 2003


The big question here is who we end up talking off the ledge. I don't see "NEGOTIATOR" stamped on Matt's jacket.
posted by ed at 5:04 PM on August 21, 2003


First one to cut off their hand wins.
posted by yerfatma at 5:23 PM on August 21, 2003


Wow, I haven't seen such a useless expulsion of warm air since the last Marxists Anonymous meeting.
posted by wackybrit at 5:39 PM on August 21, 2003


It was disgusting, uncalled for, and tolerated. Much like insomnyuk.

Welcome to the internet.
posted by angry modem at 5:59 PM on August 21, 2003


lol wackybrit !
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:13 PM on August 21, 2003


It depresses me that I can't read this stuff at work anymore.
posted by trharlan at 8:12 PM on August 21, 2003


Now this is more like it, honestly. Also, frasermoo?

How the hell do you all keep tabs of who you hate?

Funny you should ask...
posted by jonson at 11:17 PM on August 21, 2003


#146!!!
posted by xmutex at 10:44 AM on August 22, 2003


Seriously?
posted by bshort at 10:52 AM on August 22, 2003


Insomnyuk posts on Sportsfilter all the time, and he's a pretty insightful guy. He's a Leafs fan, but I don't think that's his fault. Anyway, here's an idea:

Let's ban one person a week. We'll all vote in Metatalk for who we hate the most. It'll be like SURVIVOR: THE WEBSITE.

Oddly enough, I'm betting Tomcatspike wins.
posted by Samsonov14 at 11:26 AM on August 22, 2003


Oddly enough, I'm betting Tomcatspike wins.


While that's a good choice, I think I'd bet on MadameJuJuJive...everyone loves her. Plus, she rides herd on Quonsar in RL...which has got to be worth bonus points. ;)
posted by dejah420 at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2003


If #1 ain't the last one standing, I'll eat my hat.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:40 PM on August 22, 2003


I'd think he'd be one of the first to go: too big a threat. It all depends on the alliances, though. And how many fish you catch.
posted by timeistight at 12:52 PM on August 22, 2003


I don't think I can vote anyone off. There are people I don't like, but even they contribute something at times.

I'm actually developing an affection for Thomcatspike's messy prose. It's almost prose poetry, with buried meaning and fascinating ambiguities.

Thomcatspike is the ee cummings of Metafilter.
posted by orange swan at 1:11 PM on August 22, 2003


Welcome to the internet.

Who made user seventeen-thousand-and-something the welcome wagon? ;)
posted by scarabic at 1:29 PM on August 22, 2003


Oh, I'll show you prose poetry.
posted by jonson at 1:30 PM on August 22, 2003


alas, poor goliche! We knew him...
posted by taz at 1:47 PM on August 22, 2003


I found this amongst my college papers during a pre-move clear out. I've already posted it on my blog, but for some reason it seems apt to post it here:

"It can be seen immediately that this is a phone call. (A) tells (B) she has to put an ‘extension’ on hold. There is also a certain amount of verbal freedom exhibited which might not have happened in real life. The conversation about the properties of helium balloons might not have been at such great length if some body language at such great length if some body language had been seen; also telephone conversations tend to end with each party saying ‘good-bye’ many times – each wants the last words but it doesn’t seem as though they are ending the conversation abruptly; there are also some areas which could suggest (B) is on a mobile phone – the importance of the call being taken – mobile phone callers on trips use longer sentences through boredom – whereas (A), possibly in an office uses shorter sentences, perhaps because she is busy – other than her protest about the balloon, her pronouncements are shorter, more direct. But it seems more likely to be a land-line. It’s obvious at the beginning that (A) + (B) are familiar with each other. (B) The simple ‘hello’ is of recognition."

Yes, I know it's mostly incomprensible ...
posted by feelinglistless at 2:35 PM on August 22, 2003


.. incompre ... inc .... oh forget it ...
posted by feelinglistless at 2:37 PM on August 22, 2003


Matt - any community driven site has to deal with cage-rattlers sooner or later...[etc., etc.]

Well said, scarabic.
posted by rushmc at 6:29 AM on August 25, 2003


skallas watch
posted by quonsar at 1:06 PM on August 26, 2003


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