Greasemonkey Killfile Script

September 2, 2005 12:59 PM

you finally got me pissed off enough to install GreaseMonkey and the kill file so I'll never have to read another one of your trollish comments.

I have greasemonkey---where might I find this cherished killfile script?
posted by craniac to MetaFilter-Related at 12:59 PM (161 comments total)

Here.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:07 PM on September 2, 2005

Thanks!
posted by craniac at 1:08 PM on September 2, 2005

I have been writing one, but I haven't finished it yet. When it is done, I'll be sure to post it.

As for any existing one, the lack of my ability to find one was the reason I started my own. It might be out there, but it sure isn't easy to find.
posted by mystyk at 1:09 PM on September 2, 2005

damn. Beaten to the punch.
posted by mystyk at 1:09 PM on September 2, 2005

I've fucking had it with dios. How can we collectively protest strongly enough to convince Matt to kick him off the website?
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:12 PM on September 2, 2005

"I've fucking had it with dios. How can we collectively protest strongly enough to convince Matt to kick him off the website?"

Translated as - "Matt, people are expressing opinions that make me mad. Please fix this immedietely."

Someone gives you a tool, on this page, that you can use to filter out people who disageee with you, and that's not enough. The mind reels. Do yourself a favor and loosen your grip on groupthink. If opinions bother you so much, maybe the Internet isn't a good place for you to be.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:19 PM on September 2, 2005

How can we collectively protest strongly enough to convince Matt to kick him off the website?

wtf? Dude, this isn't the dailykos or freerepublic or a hundred other like-minds site where those with any dissent are shouted down.

dios doesn't break many rules but carries contrary points of view, and expresses them in strong (sometimes too strong) ways. If you don't like what he is saying, ignore it or refute it with facts, links, and information to back up your point of view.

I've heard from many users for the past six years that basically want to remove anyone that consistently disagrees with them and MetaFilter isn't nerfworld -- there will be some people you disagree with and don't like. Deal with it by engaging them, or let them be.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:20 PM on September 2, 2005

It's not a free-for-all here. There are standards. He managed to derail hundreds of posts in a thread, wasting time and resources. Please don't translate my words. I mean just what I say - in a community, standards can be upheld. His behavior is derailment. Many posters I disagree with don't do this.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:21 PM on September 2, 2005

And he doesn't much listen, either. Facts and information bounce off of him generally, Matt.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:23 PM on September 2, 2005

And please be gentle in your tone, folks - I've got friends directly affected by this crisis so am not too strong right now, and I'm trying to be polite in my words and would appreciate the same.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:24 PM on September 2, 2005

On second thought, perhaps you should just delete my words, folks, I'm not doing well.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2005

wtf? Dude, this isn't the dailykos or freerepublic or a hundred other like-minds site where those with any dissent are shouted down.

I fucking hate dios like no other poster on Mefi, but I gotta give Matt the big props for setting up a site like this. Lord knows, I say some things occasionally that get people pissed. I'm happy to know that Matt's not going to kick me off for, say, wearing black converse high-tops with no socks.
posted by thanotopsis at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2005

Deal with it by engaging them, or let them be.

Sage advice, especially the second part. Let them be. If you think these people are trolls, ignore them. If you just can't handle it, then download the script. If that isn't enough, get yourself some Paxil and Xanex.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:29 PM on September 2, 2005

Dios wrote some great stuff in that post. I e-mailed him to thank him.
posted by ParisParamus at 1:29 PM on September 2, 2005

Thanks mathowie. Quite apart from your position on this site, I'm tired of people who want to censor censor censor. Grow up and deal with dissent.

It is simply not true that dios derailed that thread. He posted his (strong) opinion. That his vitriol was directed at the people who had posted already did not make his comment a troll. The people who derailed the thread were all those who posted "shut up dios," "bucketfull of cocks, dios," "you're a putz, dios." Those are the people who should be getting called out for being uncivil and failing to address the issue at hand.

And for the record, I disagree with almost everything dios writes.
posted by OmieWise at 1:29 PM on September 2, 2005

"MeFi-Killfile: Kill comments by specific users. Needs local editing to point to user-specific killfile. (Back by popular demand.)"

How sad that is.
posted by ParisParamus at 1:32 PM on September 2, 2005

It is simply not true that dios derailed that thread. He posted his (strong) opinion.

Since GodDios has such strong personal opinions about the majority of people here, it would be nice to be able to post strong personal opinions of him, but it would probably get me kicked off for a week. Apparently, some personal opinions get a free pass around here, depending on who makes them.
posted by Rothko at 1:34 PM on September 2, 2005

I guess that I'm not very perceptive, but I can't really see what dios has done to deserve such vitriole.
posted by leftcoastbob at 1:36 PM on September 2, 2005

I agree that it's good people arn't booted off for being contrary. Dios isn't a troll, I think he's sincere.

Still, I wish more people had the self control to ignore the poop he spews. If it was just one comment from him it wouldn't be a big deal, but he ends up causing threads to melt down.
posted by delmoi at 1:36 PM on September 2, 2005

Metafilter has shown me that there are people out there who have viewed this entire tragedy as a political issue and not through the lense of humanism. There is a time to be political and discuss it, and that time is usually when the situation ceases to be critical. -dios

Ban dios.

Go to fucking hell, a3matrix. Douchebag.
posted by Toecutter

Fuck you
posted by Toecutter

But keep this idiot? Politics have nothing to do with it I'm guessing.
posted by justgary at 1:39 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm just angry, and deeply troubled, and not thinking straight.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:41 PM on September 2, 2005

By The Grace of God - Maybe you ought not be posting then, eh?
posted by xmutex at 1:43 PM on September 2, 2005

Keep dios.
posted by Acey at 1:44 PM on September 2, 2005

Rothko writes "Since GodDios has such strong personal opinions about the majority of people here, it would be nice to be able to post strong personal opinions of him, but it would probably get me kicked off for a week. Apparently, some personal opinions get a free pass around here, depending on who makes them."

Rothko, I think his second comment directed at you (really at MrMoonPie, but at your quotation of MMP), was out of line. I was talking about his first comment, which attacked no one directly, and to the extent that it was an attack, which it was, was civil compared to what was spewed back at him. Again, I'm not saying I agree with him, just that people should either argue the merits or ignore him.
posted by OmieWise at 1:44 PM on September 2, 2005

No, if anyone's "deeply troubled," it's this guy. He needs professional help.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:44 PM on September 2, 2005

fine, xmutex, email me and I'll give you the account.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:46 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm just angry, and deeply troubled, and not thinking straight.
posted by By The Grace of God

I think a lot of people are. It's completely understandable.
posted by justgary at 1:47 PM on September 2, 2005

Justgary: Way to excerpt. I'd be for deleting those Toecutter comments, but there was more to them than what you let on.
posted by klangklangston at 1:48 PM on September 2, 2005

I think we should have realistic expectations on thread comments this week... people are all really upset, right or left.

I think the constant threat to killfile people is unfortunate.
posted by selfnoise at 1:49 PM on September 2, 2005

Rothko, I think his second comment directed at you was out of line.

I agree, but it's okay though, because he has a free pass here to do that stuff to whomever he wants.
posted by Rothko at 1:51 PM on September 2, 2005

Of course, using a killfile makes a thread incomprehensible more often than not.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:51 PM on September 2, 2005

Dios is as conservative as several of the most liberal lefty here are liberal. Does that mean he gets a "free pass"? No. It means he gets held to the same standard as everyone else. He's not a troll, he just has a worldview that you seem incapable of understanding.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:53 PM on September 2, 2005

Rothko- You sound a like a little bratty two year old most of the time. Can you try growing up a bit?
posted by xmutex at 1:53 PM on September 2, 2005

Klangklangston, I simply didn't want the post to take up too much room. But for the record, the first comment is complete.

Here's the second in completion:

Why don't you drive down to New Orleans and cradle one of those infants dying of dehydration and see if you can still be such a smug fuck urging polite discourse. Fuck you.

Better?

Look, I don't want toecutter banned either. If he wants to direct anger at me, fine. I'm a big boy. But lets get a grip here when it comes to accusations.
posted by justgary at 1:55 PM on September 2, 2005

Everyone should maybe take a deep breath and count to 10. Or 1000. Dios didn't say anything all that awful in the thread in question. I think he is somewhat emotionally unintelligent not to realize that the reason people are bashing the administration is partly because they're so angry at the devastation, and that they're angry at the devastation because they care about people dying, not because they want to score political points. Also, it's just plain stupid to wade into a hornet's nest the way he did. People's emotions are raw right now, and there isn't the level of tolerance there might be, especially when people who care very much are accused of not caring at all.

Anyway, the really bad actor in that thread was ParisParamus who, a week after telling us that he was going to be kinder and gentler, deliberately kept stirring up the shit, just to annoy the lib'ruls. It was a fairly appalling display of insensitivity. God knows what he'd be saying if he hadn't reformed.
posted by anapestic at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2005

I think he is somewhat emotionally unintelligent not to realize that the reason people are bashing the administration is partly because they're so angry at the devastation, and that they're angry at the devastation because they care about people dying, not because they want to score political points.

Of course he realizes it. He's using it to push people's buttons and that's why he's a troll.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:57 PM on September 2, 2005

He's not a troll, he just has a worldview that you seem incapable of understanding.

He either attacks individuals or groups of people on Mefi personally, or he makes a deliberately inflammatory comment and leaves a thread in tatters. It's been remarked upon by many others here. So what exactly about this doesn't break the "rules", such as they are?
posted by Rothko at 1:58 PM on September 2, 2005

Rothko - ding ding ding! You got it. It's his "I'm not wasting any more time here" kind of comments that get me - why did he bother in the first place, then?
posted by agregoli at 2:01 PM on September 2, 2005

I believe he's sincere, and I don't think his comments are "deliberately inflammatory." As for attacks, he dishes as good as he gets. What's wrong with that?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:01 PM on September 2, 2005

Leaves the threads in tatters? Inflammatory? Did he deny the holocaust and call Jews liars or go all Bruce Willis in the opening scene of Die Hard 3?

No he just pointed out that there was politicizing going on (which is true, people were predicting Bush's popularity collapsing). When the convoy came the first comments claimed Bush was just getting a photo opportunity and he made the convoy wait until he got there. Those half-sarcastic comments are several times more trollish than what dios points out. Sure has a flair for the dramatics, but not more than the other side.
posted by geoff. at 2:07 PM on September 2, 2005

As for attacks, he dishes as good as he gets. What's wrong with that?

Because he gets a free pass for personal attacks, while others earn time-outs.
posted by Rothko at 2:08 PM on September 2, 2005

What bugs me is that dios' commenting is just so damned calculated. He clearly plans an attack, waiting for just the right moment to strike, then disappears when things get too hot. He may not be troll, but he's definitely a contrarian, arguing for the sake of argument.

Look, lots of folks have defended him due to his obvious rationality and intelligence. Yes, I agree that he's rational and intelligent, but it's clear to me that he uses those qualities just to piss people off, not out of any honest expression of what he believes in.

ParisParamus is in a completely different ballpark. PP is far more honest with his feelings (and far less rational and intelligent) than dios. I'd rather have an honest idiot than a scheming genius any day.

dios is, in my strongly-held opinion, basically dishonest, and it is for this dishonesty that I think he should be banned.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:09 PM on September 2, 2005

If you read the caveat to my "reformation," I have kept to it fine. You just can't deal with anyone who disagrees with you.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:12 PM on September 2, 2005

Because he gets a free pass for personal attacks, while others earn time-outs.

He's gotten just as many timeouts that you did (and he didn't sign up and start posting under a sockpuppet to protect his identity).

Look, both of you (and several others) are guilty of confusing stances and issues and comments with the people making the comments. It's quite possible and desirable to have contrasting opinions and arguments that focus on the subject at hand.

Every single time someone mocks another user directly or threatens them or makes light of their intelligence -- anything directed at another member instead of their words -- that's when we have problems.

And that's why I've emailed half a dozen people asking them to refrain from doing this. If you want to give dios a time out, then you certainly deserve one too, as does amberglow and many others.

But I don't want to do that, please try and act like adults here and stick to issues, not personalities.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:22 PM on September 2, 2005

Oh wait, I see the other dios comment. Yeah that was pretty lame. I was looking at the convoy comment. The second comment was way worse. The personal attack was unnecessary but he was attacked through half the thread.
posted by geoff. at 2:23 PM on September 2, 2005

Because he gets a free pass for personal attacks, while others earn time-outs.

Crybaby.
posted by rocketman at 2:28 PM on September 2, 2005

No he just pointed out that there was politicizing going on (which is true, people were predicting Bush's popularity collapsing).

Yep. And called us all sickos for doing so, while accusing us of not caring about the disaster.
posted by agregoli at 2:29 PM on September 2, 2005

(and he didn't sign up and start posting under a sockpuppet to protect his identity)

I've seen this comment before, so let's just get this clear: The second account was for AskMe, and I asked for my old account back. You chose not to reactivate the old account, but you left this second account active. But whatever you like to think, go right ahead.
posted by Rothko at 2:33 PM on September 2, 2005

does this Greasemonkey thing work for Klansmen too?
posted by amberglow at 2:43 PM on September 2, 2005

I think that PP and dios have every right to be here, but since 95% of everything they have ever posted has been trollish, I'm going to set up my browser to block them. Simple as that. It worked well for banner ads and spam, it should work fine for them.
posted by milovoo at 2:48 PM on September 2, 2005

Odd. That killfile works but not perfectly. I messed around with it for a few minutes and I saw that most comments from Poster X would go away but one or two would remain. Better than nothing, I guess.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 2:52 PM on September 2, 2005

He's gotten just as many timeouts that you did (and he didn't sign up and start posting under a sockpuppet to protect his identity).

Wait, MrMoonPie actualy is AlexReynolds? *dunt dunt dunnnn*

Or am I confused again.

Also. I installed greasemonkey, but like 'clicking' new user script does *nothing*. Its very irritating, since it worked the first time but somehow didn't install the script.

Is there any way to manualy install the script?
posted by delmoi at 2:56 PM on September 2, 2005

wait, I got it. Thanks.
posted by delmoi at 2:57 PM on September 2, 2005

If Dios is a troll I am too. Ban me.
posted by loquax at 3:06 PM on September 2, 2005

Or killfile me.
posted by loquax at 3:08 PM on September 2, 2005

loquax: I don't think Dios is a troll, but I did killfile him, because trying to discuss things with him just dosn't work. I do think PP is a troll, but most people ignore him so it's not as big of a deal. Still, he's killfiled because, well why not?
posted by delmoi at 3:11 PM on September 2, 2005

because trying to discuss things with him just dosn't work.

That's just not true. See the last MeTa thread about him for examples.
posted by loquax at 3:13 PM on September 2, 2005

That is to say, this one.
posted by loquax at 3:16 PM on September 2, 2005

What OmieWise said. Thanks for your good sense, mathowie. And some of you are incredible crybabies.
posted by languagehat at 3:17 PM on September 2, 2005

delmoi says: I do think PP is a troll, but most people ignore him so it's not as big of a deal. - (emphasis mine)

BWA HA HA HA HA! Man, in these trying times, a truly hilarious comment emerges from the rubble. I love politics. I love discussing federal and world affairs and wish I had the opportunity to do it more often. Sadly, this site no longer interests me in this regard because it's constantly filled with personal attacks. I don't really care who starts the fights really; what troubles me is that no one is man enough to walk away.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:17 PM on September 2, 2005

I value dios for sometimes busting through the groupthink that can permeate this place on certain issues. Mind, I think this is just an occasionally beneficial side effect of what is intended to be inflammatory behaviour in, from what I can see, every single instance.

Some people seem to be willfully dropping context from today's little spat. People are dead and dying. Dios' comments, I would wager (a great deal), are more about the expected Bush apologist line than "let's concentrate on the humanity" and the people who lose it at him are those who know this and have decided to call him on it (in whatever fashion).

Honesty, no. But ban him, not for this. The problem, as others have stated, is the popular reaction to dios. Is someone really going to say that a comment by dios is like shouting fire in a crowded theatre?
posted by dreamsign at 3:18 PM on September 2, 2005

Would everyone who agrees with me please declare yourself now so that I don't have to killfile you? Thank you.
posted by found missing at 3:20 PM on September 2, 2005

And some of you are incredible crybabies.

While we're "set[ting] aside our politics at least to the extent of making allowances for everyone's nerves being on edge today," perhaps we could also avoid name calling.
posted by anapestic at 3:22 PM on September 2, 2005

Thanks for this MeTa, I was going to have to search for it or make my own post.

There are members here who add nothing and detract considerably from the discussion. Dios is one of the loudest and most annoying. Its not about disagreeing, its about condescension, its about crapping in a thread and then disappearing, its about perpetual derails, its about being an ill-informed know-it-all with a big honking chip on your shoulder.

I'm glad Matt doesn't just ban him, he's not that bad but I'm sick of his derails and will ignore him as best I can from here on out. The killfile will just make that alot easier.

And I'll like MetaFilter a whole lot more again.
posted by fenriq at 3:23 PM on September 2, 2005

Again, killfile me too please fenriq.
posted by loquax at 3:27 PM on September 2, 2005

I've decided to killfile everyone but me. Finally, the perfect forum.
posted by found missing at 3:30 PM on September 2, 2005

Can I ask for a greasemonkey script that will allow your comments to be private from those who you don't want to read them? I feel this will solve much of the problem, and shift the burden of all that script installation effort from the "offended" to the "offender".
posted by loquax at 3:33 PM on September 2, 2005

Ah loquax, our own little martyr!
posted by cyphill at 3:35 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm not sure which is more amusing, the clamor for a killfile, as though the scroll button and a resistance to respond could never work, or the irony of metapsychology having dios and ParisParamus both working in traditionally obsequious professions in contrast to their MeFi lives, such as they are.

Thanks for the confusedly double humour.
posted by peacay at 3:37 PM on September 2, 2005

Oh, actually, I want a script that will convert all my text to random swahili and chinese scripts and intermingled dolphin sonar midis.
posted by peacay at 3:41 PM on September 2, 2005

The greasemonkey script is fairly useless in practice, if the person you're killfiling gets rebutted (and in the process, quoted), extensively. That definitely applies to dios and p.p., since they're pretty much here to be contrarian and provocative.

I'd never killfile someone I disagree with, and in fact I find dios quite valuable. He represents apologists for the administration perfectly. Very soon, if he hasn't already, dios will be framing this discussion as to whether Bush was personally responsible for the hurricane itself, as well as saying, Rumsfeld style, "are there things that could have been done better? Of course! But on the whole I think the administration acted admirably and things are going very well." If you can cope with dios you can cope with what the administration shills hand out, and what the corporate media lap up, and if you can rebut him you can nail anything those flacks can serve up. It's not important to convince him: he's not here to be convinced. It's only important to refute him in the eyes of anyone who has a brain in his head. And that gets easier and easier.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:42 PM on September 2, 2005

It's not important to convince him: he's not here to be convinced.

Don't worry about it folks, it's likely you've won and you won't be seeing him again. If you haven't already done so, I wouldn't bother installing the script just for him.
posted by loquax at 3:44 PM on September 2, 2005

cyphill: If you don't watch it, you'll end up on my killfile.
posted by loquax at 3:46 PM on September 2, 2005

Please killfile me. It will save on responses from aggressively ignorant fucktards who are intollerant of alternative world views. From that last sentence you would think I'm talking about southern based bible bangers, and I'm not. I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state.
posted by paleocon at 3:54 PM on September 2, 2005

What do you people do when someone disagrees with you in person?
posted by gleuschk at 3:56 PM on September 2, 2005

Why is everybody mad about the cups?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:58 PM on September 2, 2005

coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots

Wow, why am I suddenly turned on?
posted by thanotopsis at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2005

I'd never killfile someone I disagree with, and in fact I find dios quite valuable. He represents apologists for the administration perfectly.

The thing is that it's easy enough to jump to any number of conservative sites to get exactly that, I don't need constant rewording of the republican talking points.
posted by milovoo at 4:03 PM on September 2, 2005

Oh, just show trogcon some of the images that include white tourists that were stuck because there were no rental cars or flights out of the city and he'll stop suggesting we let everyone in NO die.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 4:05 PM on September 2, 2005

From that last sentence you would think I'm talking about southern based bible bangers, and I'm not.

Why would anyone think that? You've been doing the same tedious schtick for years now. Everyone got the joke the first time they read your username.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:10 PM on September 2, 2005

What do you people do when someone disagrees with you in person?

I surround myself with yes-men. What the hell do you do, hippie?
posted by fishfucker at 4:13 PM on September 2, 2005

*smacks MetaFilter*
posted by sciurus at 4:14 PM on September 2, 2005

Isn't it easy enough to just ignore the comments you don't like? I'm sorry to say that I've already conditioned myself to ignore (or at most barely skim) all posts by certain posters.
posted by gyc at 4:18 PM on September 2, 2005

What do you people do when someone disagrees with you in person?
posted by gleuschk at 3:56 PM PST on September 2 [!]

I just kill them.
posted by sic at 4:23 PM on September 2, 2005

an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots

Damn, we just got zinged by a macho, tolerant "fly-over-stater" named Jebediah! Yee-haw!
posted by ericb at 4:25 PM on September 2, 2005

Could someone do a tamin on dios to show me why he inspires such hatred? I'm not as devoted a participant in MetaFilter as some, but all I see when dios comments is folk wasting a thread on shouting him down instead of engaging with him, when all he appears to be is a slightly aggressive poster who goes against what passes for the left wing on this site. (I'm not taking the piss by saying that, I'm genuinely puzzled as to why he's considered a pariah by so many.)
posted by jack_mo at 4:37 PM on September 2, 2005

Killfiles are lame. Instead, I use a greasemonkey script that makes every comment by PP pink text, on a white background, with a picture of a kitten.

I've set up other users with red/black text and a hammer and sickle.

It's much more entertaining.
posted by Jimbob at 4:37 PM on September 2, 2005

"...aggressively ignorant fucktards who are intollerant [sic] of alternative world views..."

"I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state."

Clearly, someone has issues with himself.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:41 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state.

What's a disease state?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2005

i'm sure there's a secret panel which meets semi-annually at the white house where dios got the assignment to go fuck up metafilter with advanced artificial stupidity techniques since parisparamus wasn't getting the job done with the mere garden variety obstinance. but i'd like to point out that it is extremely poor netiquette to publicly advertise the contents of a killfile. if you have a killfile, use it for your own convenience and peace of mind, and then shut up about it.
posted by 3.2.3 at 4:51 PM on September 2, 2005

Could someone do a tamin on dios to show me why he inspires such hatred?

This thread is a good example of Dios's utterly disingeuous "debating" style. We've spent $300 billion and counting in Iraq while cutting back on funding for things that could have helped in New Orleans. Some people genuinely think that suggests totally misguided priorities. Other people genuinely think that the war in Iraq is important enough to justify the cost. Dios doesn't make either argument. First, he makes a ridiculous analogy about the NEA. When people point out (with references) that the costs aren't remotely comparable, he then tries to reframe a $300 billion war as "providing irrigation for Marsh Arabs", and complains about people objecting to such humanitarian projects, even though, of course, nobody in the thread has done that. It's typical of his style; ignore the real point, construct a straw man, and eventually leave the thread whining all the way.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:56 PM on September 2, 2005

*Puts hands over ears*.....nernernernernernernernernern....I can't hear you.....nernernernernerner....
posted by Joeforking at 4:58 PM on September 2, 2005

The thing is that it's easy enough to jump to any number of conservative sites to get exactly that, I don't need constant rewording of the republican talking points.
posted by milovoo

So you end up reading constant rewording of democratic talking points?

What do you people do when someone disagrees with you in person?
posted by gleuschk

That's the trick. You can't let that happen or you'll explode.
posted by justgary at 5:08 PM on September 2, 2005

Armitage Shanks, while you might have a general point that I could agree with, your example is terrible.

He used an analogy to suggest that the allocation of government resources requires the use of prioritization. He used the NEA as an example of such allocations. His point was sound, though terribly worded. Further, his point was remarkably contentious, which fueled the usual suspects' "oh so typical and petty" vitriol.

There are a certain group of lefties here that dominate every single political thread and make it almost impossible for contrary points of view to be presented without a certain amount of arrogance or "matter of factness". This group DOES NOT represent MetaFilter, but they certainly represent the climate in political threads.

Anybody here want to fix the problem? Immediately call out ALL forms of intimidation, condescension, and name-calling.

Of course, that will never happen because political threads here are, for the most part, echo chambers. Which is precisely why people like ParisParamus and dios create such disruptions. Echo chambers don't react well to ANY disruptions. Paris and dios just happened to be extremely good at getting the collective MeFi's goat.

What are the odds that Paris and dios are simply ignored by MeFites? Zero? I thought so...
posted by SeizeTheDay at 5:11 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state.

*sprays Raid on self*

you're late for your Klan meeting, paleocon. It's your turn to bring the bundt cake, no?
posted by amberglow at 5:13 PM on September 2, 2005

bundt cake

amberglow, that's so gay!
posted by ericb at 5:16 PM on September 2, 2005

I read Dios' comments and then see the reaction to them and I just don't get it. Dios doesn't derail threads those that overreact to him do. My guess is that those who overreact have no idea how biased they are. The reaction to Dios is much like the Bush bashing. Neither has any hope of satisfying a certain subsection of MeFi.
posted by Carbolic at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2005

loquax, consistently behave like a douchebag and I'd be happy to add you to it. Call it censorship, call it lame, call it whatever you like, its not up to you. I call it cutting out the noise, doesn't Slashdot have a tolerance level system of some kind? What's wrong with that?

Use MetaFilter your way but please don't try to tell other people how they're supposed to use it.

Jimbob, do you take orders? I'd like to replace dios' comments with a yap dog charging around angrily, I'd like PP's comments to fall on their side and slowly disintegrate, since I'm purging, let's add justgary to the file, I'd like his comments to flush themselves like a toilet or maybe a mini goatse recursion. Either would work.
posted by fenriq at 5:21 PM on September 2, 2005

Please killfile me. It will save on responses from aggressively ignorant fucktards who are intollerant [sic] of alternative world views. From that last sentence you would think I'm talking about southern based bible bangers, and I'm not. I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state.
posted by paleocon at 3:54 PM PST on September 2 [!]

Truly, if only we could all match your sympathy and compassion for people with differing worldviews and backgrounds:

At this point, I'm not sure I favor relocation. Only half facetiously, I suggest that we might want to build a fence around New Orleans and call it a federal prison. I don't blame federal authorities for this mess. I blame the remaining citizens and their local race-baiting politicians.
posted by paleocon at 12:58 PM PST on September 2 [!]

Why killfile such a gloriously entertaining example of a hypocritical asshat in action?
posted by drpynchon at 5:26 PM on September 2, 2005

let's add justgary to the file

Aww, finally some love.

Please don't accuse me of picking on you specifically and then bring up my name in another thread. You'll confuse me.
posted by justgary at 5:28 PM on September 2, 2005

an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots

Uh...I think that might be me. Thanks for noticing.
posted by leftcoastbob at 5:34 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm not as devoted a participant in MetaFilter as some, but all I see when dios comments is folk wasting a thread on shouting him down instead of engaging with him, when all he appears to be is a slightly aggressive poster who goes against what passes for the left wing on this site. (I'm not taking the piss by saying that, I'm genuinely puzzled as to why he's considered a pariah by so many.)

Two reasons. The less significant, at this point, is that dios used to be pretty scattershot in his comments, making ParisParamus-like provocateur one-liners and rarely engaging anyone in actual debate. This has changed, and for some time now he's been a much more thoughtful and interesting poster. The main reason is that the most vocal MeFites are lefties who can't stand to hear anyone disagree with them, even in reasoned fashion. If you say "I don't think this can be blamed on the administration," they hear "FUK YOU I LOVE BUSH YOU PUSSY!!!!" Then they whine about banning.

In case anybody's interested, dios wrote me as follows:

I spent the better part of two days helping people move into the arena right near my office, setting up temporary offices right outside my door for displaced attorneys in LA who have been trying to protect legal rights, working on cases that I won't get billed for in order to help displaced attorneys ensure that the justice system goes on, and donating my most recent paycheck. What I have seen of the gratitude of the people and the sadness of their losses will remain with me for a long time. When I saw the attitude on Metafilter as I relaxed and dropped by, I was angry. And I realize that I am sick of it. It isn't worth it.

I told him that I hoped he'd come by again after things had calmed down, but that I completely understood why he felt the way he did. He's far from an impeccable commenter, but I don't see many impeccable commenters around here. I see a quite a few partisan name-callers who can't accept a difference of opinion without making it personal, and I wish things could be different, because I value a good argument a lot more than I value pious chants of Kum-ba-ya.
posted by languagehat at 5:46 PM on September 2, 2005

I've used the killfile for some time now, but I think it might be the wrong approach.

PP, dios, et al are all just a bit out of place. This is how they like it. I've felt the same perverse urge to make myself a thorn in the collective side at Christian Forums myself.

These guys ride the line between legitimate discourse and trolling, and it's basically mental masturbation IMHO. They're not here to educate us or save us from what they declare is our ignorance.

Instead of getting upset with their jabs, why not pick a forum where you're just a bit out of place, and position yourself in the same manner? It'll debase you as a person, like it debases them, but it's remarkably satisfying. You won't accomplish any more or any less than you currently do with your recreational keystrokes.

Of course this is a "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" argument. Until my beating-over-TCP/IP technology is perfected, I think there's no better solution.
posted by mullingitover at 5:51 PM on September 2, 2005

disease state

Wisconjuctivitis?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 5:53 PM on September 2, 2005

Rather, Wisconjunctivitis? Missourinary tract infection?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 5:56 PM on September 2, 2005

In case anybody's interested...

You know, frankly, languagehat, I am really not interested at all in what Dios may or may not have been doing in his spare time.

He made an insulting blanket assertion about everyone at this site that no one here has done anything to help out the victims, which is tacitly false (at least in my own case).

His fake outrage was designed to pick a fight, just as he does with every other hit-and-run posting he's made.

And if it wasn't the case that he wanted to pick a fight, then he could have changed the tone of his comment, which was insulting and wrong. He chose instead to be a belligerent prick about it, and he got the responses he deserved (and wanted, no doubt).
posted by Rothko at 5:57 PM on September 2, 2005

I don't blame federal authorities for this mess. I blame the remaining citizens and their local race-baiting politicians.
posted by paleocon at 12:58 PM PST on September 2

Why killfile such a gloriously entertaining example of a hypocritical asshat in action?

Seriously. If this stuff upsets you so you can't sleep, then by all means, kill away. For my part, I am appreciative of the dedicated manner in which MeFi's worst helpfully self-identify as such. It saves logically grinding through spurious argument after spurious argument with someone halfway more credible but equally disingenuous.
posted by dreamsign at 6:03 PM on September 2, 2005

If you want it to stop, you cannot take the thing from their hands...

And remember, don't hold a grudge. Metafilter's small enough that everyone will be on the same side of one issue or another. (And sometimes, even when you're not, you get to enjoy the other person more... I've gotten a kick out of going back and forth with loquax for the last couple of days...)

Put me in your killfiles, folks, and you'll miss all the new permutations of profanity that I've been working on. Fucksack! No one's said that before, right?
posted by klangklangston at 6:06 PM on September 2, 2005

Hope there's a way for MH to make Greasemonkey disable Mefi for anyone using it. People who want to use that shouldn't be allowed here.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:10 PM on September 2, 2005

I really don't like the idea of the kill file script and what the hell is the ban dios thing? I didn't think his comment was that bad and I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.
posted by 517 at 8:41 PM on September 2, 2005

Hope there's a way for MH to make Greasemonkey disable Mefi for anyone using it. People who want to use that shouldn't be allowed here.

Nonsense. If I don't use a killfile but consistently scroll past and ignore comments by a particular user should I not be here either? When one has conversations in real life there are people that one need not listen to because they have proven consistently that they have nothing to say. The net's the same, killfiles just make it easier to organize.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:48 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm so trapped...While I'd love to killfile Rothko, Paleocon, bevets, and all the other wacko extremists, I'd miss the good good MetaTalk meltdown lovin'.
posted by Bugbread at 8:50 PM on September 2, 2005

Wait, now that I've actually found the thread in question: THAT'S what this fuss is about?
I hope to fuck that you political zealots stay the fuck out of conventional discourse. I'm a liberal. I'm opposed to Bush. The last fucking thing I need is for y'all to go up to some undecided voter and convince him that liberals are all a bunch of insane crazy shits.
posted by Bugbread at 9:01 PM on September 2, 2005

Rothko writes "He made an insulting blanket assertion about everyone at this site that no one here has done anything to help out the victims, which is tacitly false (at least in my own case)."
That's incorrect. Go and read dios's comment again. Also read all the comments above his. They were dominated by political snipes. And I observe that your first comment in that thread was to note the irony of the guns pointing down, without any reference to this arrival of help being a thankful development.

But I don't want to argue with you Rothko because frankly you seem to adopt positions which you defend admirably but the tragedy always appears to be that you don't allow room for modification when other ideas are articulated (and afterall it's ideas and not personalities or agendas which are the stuff of adult discussion no?), a trait which you are not alone in possessing at this site though, but that doesn't edify it to my way of thinking.
posted by peacay at 9:02 PM on September 2, 2005

Sorry, kill file me bugbread.
posted by 517 at 9:03 PM on September 2, 2005

Bwahahaha.

ParisParamus wrote: Hope there's a way for MH to make Greasemonkey disable Mefi for anyone using it. People who want to use that shouldn't be allowed here.

You realize Greasemonkey is useful for more than just killfiles, right? I don't even use Firefox (I like Camino) - but GM is the one 'feature' that makes me consider switching to FF, not for the killfile - I see no point to that, but for the other modifications it makes possible.

Earlier PP wrote:You just can't deal with anyone who disagrees with you.

You disagree with how others may set up their browsing of these sites, so the response is that they shouldn't be allowed here at all?
posted by birdsquared at 9:06 PM on September 2, 2005

517 : "Sorry, kill file me bugbread."

Nonono, I'm worried about keeping y'all in, not blocking y'all out. (I don't know if you're included in the "insane" category anyway, as I can't particularly recall any insanity coming from you)
posted by Bugbread at 9:09 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm killfiling all of you.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:14 PM on September 2, 2005

killfiles? cool, sounds like a free speech zone. i always wanted one of them.
posted by probablysteve at 9:19 PM on September 2, 2005

Can someone write a script so I can delete a posted comment when, later, I realize I hae been a complete nutsack?

Oh wait, I have self control for that. Well...sometimes.
posted by johnj at 9:52 PM on September 2, 2005

I doubt I'll end up using it, it is, in the end, easy enough to just ignore garbage from dios, PP and others. I only wish others would learn to do the same since it works alot better that way.
posted by fenriq at 9:59 PM on September 2, 2005

Bugbread: Okay, I just misread it.
posted by 517 at 10:10 PM on September 2, 2005

I'm with Krrrlson, and I feel bad for mathowie. Most of threads (of late) have reminded me of AOL chatrooms in their early incarnations. For all the supposed intellectual superiority that most of the Mefi-members tend to espouse, a lot of you are simple-minded children. Grow the fuck-up. Realize that, regardless of how important you might find this site, real life is far more important.

The thread in question (and most of the Katrina related information) has brought out the best and worst of everyone due to the fact that most, if not all, moral humans cannot comprehend catastrophes on that particular level. Everyone: Chill the fuck out, realize that you, like everyone else, cannot rationalize a situation like this and no one is expecting it either. Opinions differ and emotions are running high. We are all human and, as such, performing exactly as expected. Banning, time-outs and killfiles are ridiculous. At this point, all opinions (regardless of source) should be weighed on their worth regardless of politics and social hang-ups.
posted by purephase at 10:31 PM on September 2, 2005

Hope there's a way for MH to make Greasemonkey disable Mefi for anyone using it. People who want to use that shouldn't be allowed here.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:10 PM PST on September 2 [!]


So, for the record, you're hoping that MH can block any user agent that supports javascript? No, seriously, please clarify this for me. I want to know.
posted by mullingitover at 10:38 PM on September 2, 2005

The main reason is that the most vocal MeFites are lefties who can't stand to hear anyone disagree with them

The most important word there is "vocal". I doubt many on the left or right desire metafilter to be an echo chamber, but those that do are quite adamant about it.

Luckily, Matt has never seemed interested in creating such a place. For those who disagree with him, killfile.

Everyone's happy.
posted by justgary at 11:05 PM on September 2, 2005

I've gotten a kick out of going back and forth with loquax for the last couple of days

Right back atcha Klangklangston!
posted by loquax at 11:29 PM on September 2, 2005

Thanks again, languagehat. You're an asset to MetaFilter, and I learned something valuable about dios I probably wouldn't have otherwise. Thanks.
posted by loquacious at 12:57 AM on September 3, 2005

Oh, bloody hell.

Dios is a decent person who means what he says, is not intentionally trying to stir up shit any more than any of us are (and to some degree, most of us are), and he's intelligent and rational and reasonable. He just has some different assumptions and different conclusions than most of us here do.

If the politics were reversed, I guarantee you that most of us, including me, would feel just as righteously outraged at the "politicization" of this tragedy as dios and others do. Because we wouldn't accept the premises of the opposition and, by habit, we'd be sure that the opposition was acting in bad faith.

Please read this comment of mine in the Kanye thread. Now go to my personal website. You'll see that I am at least, and probably more than average, taking the exact position and saying the exact things that dios and others find so offensive.

But dios and I correspond occasionally (and that's partly how I have a high level of confidence in my assessment of his earnestness and good-intentions), and he wrote me yesterday with his despair of metafilter in general and specifically what I now realize is this thread.

He's not seen the things I've written, nor has he responded to my response. But this is something I said to him in my email:

As to the current disaster, I think you'll find my political rhetoric as it relates to this to be more strident than most. As always, I respectfully understand and try very hard to comprehend opposing and quite different viewpoints than mine. But I am very angry right now because I am certain that the national response would have been almost immediate if the victims had been predominantly white and middle-class. You know that I don't see things in black-and-white and I rarely think that anyone, regardless of their ideology, is actually evil and intends harm to other people. But, in the same way that people like my sister (a conservative evangelical minister/missionary) believes that there's a current running through American culture that is poisonous and from which evil springs, I, too, believe the same. I just identify a different current. And, in this catastrophe, I believe I see a direct product of it. So of course I'm angry, and of course I'm "against" some people.

You might stop and consider, if you've really come to know me in some ways, that I'm one of the least partisan people you'll find. I despise partisanship because it essentially puts tribalism in the form of ideology ahead of reason and pragmatism. What I am, is a rational pragmatist. And try to believe me when I say that my anger, my moral anger, is the product of this worldview and is not partisan.

Yes, it's hard to tell because the things I'm saying are the same things the partisans are saying. That happens sometimes.

We'll see how he responds to this. Anyway, if anyone is a partisan hack, it's Rothko. The reason he's here is so that he can say strident, predictable, and provocative things in an atmosphere where he will be applauded. Dios is here because even though he disagrees with the majority, he thinks we're intelligent people worth conversing with. He takes an enormous amount of shit for being different while Rothko deals out a lot of shit and then whines when he gets in trouble for it. I know whose character I admire and whose character I don't.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:20 AM on September 3, 2005

The reason he's here is so that he can say strident, predictable, and provocative things in an atmosphere where he will be applauded.

Nonsense. One recent example.

Anyway, I've learned to not really care much about what Ethereal Bligh, or whatever his name is, thinks, since he behaves like a jerk at nearly every opportunity and gets away with it, but anyone who believes this:

Dios is here because even though he disagrees with the majority, he thinks we're intelligent people worth conversing with.

...is completely deluding him or herself. Everytime GodDios derails someone else's thread, he pats himself on the back for another job well done. He doesn't try very hard to contribute much else to this place. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

And if you think that's some novel thought that I just came up with because I don't think highly of him, well, guess what: there any many others here who've independently come to more or less the same conclusion, whether Ethereal Bligh likes it or not.
posted by Rothko at 5:51 AM on September 3, 2005

Anyway, if anyone is a partisan hack, it's Rothko. The reason he's here is so that he can say strident, predictable, and provocative things in an atmosphere where he will be applauded. Dios is here because even though he disagrees with the majority, he thinks we're intelligent people worth conversing with. He takes an enormous amount of shit for being different while Rothko deals out a lot of shit and then whines when he gets in trouble for it. I know whose character I admire and whose character I don't.

*applauds*
posted by languagehat at 6:33 AM on September 3, 2005

size matters
posted by JohnR at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2005

So did dios leave or something?
posted by Acey at 7:41 AM on September 3, 2005

I think that a lot of the problem is with people's reaction to Dios, rather than Dios himself. He writes something that some people find offensive and instead of ignoring what he wrote and getting on with the topic at hand, some people tend to vent on him which derails everything.

Dios is really not a problem; your reaction to him is the problem.
posted by leftcoastbob at 7:47 AM on September 3, 2005

Why does Rothko always do the strikeout Goddios thing... Is he somehow implying that people don't know what dios means? I never got the humor in that.
posted by trey at 7:52 AM on September 3, 2005

I wasn't being serious--unless it's possible to boot anyone who engages (invokes?) such a script (not Greasemonkey generally.

Once again, too many people think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is a troll. Very sad.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:52 AM on September 3, 2005

And This thread is a good argument for killing Metafilter for a while; a time-out; let MH go on vacation, or something.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:56 AM on September 3, 2005

ParisParamus, the irony must be lost on you but your opinion on whether or not dios is a troll is pretty well worthless. In fact, your opinion on most topics now is pretty well worthless since you've ably proved you're not a man of your word.
posted by fenriq at 8:26 AM on September 3, 2005

I can't be bothered with installing killfiles and all, but:

Dios is really not a problem; your reaction to him is the problem.

While I don't find Dios much of a problem, this statement is ridiculous. Logically, it's not much different from saying, "The dog biting you is not the problem, your reaction to it is the problem."

Hope there's a way for MH to make Greasemonkey disable Mefi for anyone using it. People who want to use that shouldn't be allowed here.

Another absurd statement. On the one hand, you regularly tell people who disagree with you that they can just ignore you if they don't like what you say. On the other hand, when people come up with a way to ignore you, you say they shouldn't be allowed on the site. Is it your position that no one should be allowed on MeFi unless they read and consider every comment made by every poster in every thread? I think it just really bugs you that people might come up with a more effective way of not seeing your barbs.

What do you people do when someone disagrees with you in person?

Some of us would draw a distinction between people disagreeing with us in person and people who go out of their way to provoke us. What would you do with someone whom you felt wasn't arguing with you for any reason other than to be combattive? You'd just find a way not to be around them. The killfile is one such way.
posted by anapestic at 8:44 AM on September 3, 2005

Dios is really not a problem; your reaction to him is the problem.

And anapestic responds: While I don't find Dios much of a problem, this statement is ridiculous. Logically, it's not much different from saying, "The dog biting you is not the problem, your reaction to it is the problem."

What's ridiculous is your logic, anapestic. dios is not a biting dog in any way. Barking dog perhaps. Just as annoying as an obnoxiously loud crying baby, but really, dios is simply "making noise" in some people's opinions and not really "hurting" anyone. A dog bite, on the other hand, causes real damage.

While I feel rather silly pointing out this distinction, it seems to me that again, a rather loud vocal minority goes out of their way to convince MetaFilter that dios is "evil", which strikes me as disingenuous and silly.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 8:59 AM on September 3, 2005

Yes, I admit it, I'm a troll--if you define such as anyone who annoys you because they disagree with you, and manage to get you to read their comments. Grow up.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:00 AM on September 3, 2005

SeizeTheDay nails it above.

One of the striking things about Metafilter is how little it takes to get branded a right winger around here. Any slight deviation from the Daily Kos party line makes a lot of people (or a few very loud people?) assume you are the latest incarnation of Fred Phelps and Adolph Hitler. Moderates learn to avoid the political threads, and the result is that the discussions generally lack nuance. They are dominated by hard-core ideologues looking for cheap political points.

This is normally easily dealt with--just keep out of the political threads. But when politics intersects a human tragedy like Katrina, it is harder to avoid. We all end up wading through the sewage, hoping to find a sip of clear water.
posted by LarryC at 9:18 AM on September 3, 2005

One of the striking things about Metafilter is how little it takes to get branded a right winger around here. Any slight deviation from the Daily Kos party line makes a lot of people (or a few very loud people?) assume you are the latest incarnation of Fred Phelps and Adolph Hitler. Moderates learn to avoid the political threads, and the result is that the discussions generally lack nuance. They are dominated by hard-core ideologues looking for cheap political points.

Amen Larryc. I'm liberal on far more issues than conservative, and I didn't vote for bush. But on mefi I might as well be rush.

I always find it amusing how many comments that go against the leanings of metafilter that start off with "I'm no fan of bush but...". I just can't be bothered with it.
posted by justgary at 9:34 AM on September 3, 2005

He (Dios) takes an enormous amount of shit for being different

I'd say this is absolute nonsense. He takes it because he often looks not to "be different" but to take the fight to the ignorant hypocrites that dominate MeFi and hate him so for holding a different position. A prime example would be statements like these:

I was not certain of the group's goals. I never bothered to check them out...


This after he objected to a Nambla thread being called out because:

I thought this was a [insert sexual orientation] friendly site?
posted by dios at 12:02 PM PST on July 22 [!]

And this:

You obviously believe that males being attracted to males is an orientation. On what basis do you suggest that a 30 year old male being attracted to a consenting 15 year old male isn't an orientation, as well? For someone who is so vocal about demanding acceptance for a particular orientation, its a little off-putting to see such a reaction to similar orientation only with an age component.

I understand you don't like hearing about some group of people who sexual activities aren't your own. But, this is but one link. Now, I could see how annoyed and tired of hearing about it you could get if there were posts practically every day talking about different issues with that orientation, though.
posted by dios at 12:43 PM PST on July 22 [!]

Clearly and entirely missing the point about Nambla. Yet he was more than happy to argue in defense of them prior to actually understanding Nambla's position, nature, and activities, just because, and despite of the fact that he wasn't certain about Nambla's goals and had never bothered to check them out.

Can you say it's pleasant to have a conversation with someone who vigorously defends his position on something he knows nothing about and yet pretends to? Sure, there's the comic element, which is always in interesting. This statement is a prime example:

Can we get a confirmation from someone who knows what this group stands for?

Do they advocate rape of newborn infants? Or is a situation more like the consentual 30 year old on 15 year old thing I posited above?

Alex's demonization of the group because of who they are attracted to seems to very likely skewed.
posted by dios at 12:55 PM PST on July 22 [!]

That has nought to do with finding his posts a complete joke because he disagrees with you. It has everything to do with the manner in which he engages in a discussion, which is without even the most basic respect for the rules of engagement, such as being familiar with the subject being discussed for example.

People were engaging Dios legitimately in that thread, despite Dios not even bothering to do the same until, eventually, it finally occurred to him that the basic principle of at least finding out about the core subject being discussed came to him. That's just wonderful isn't it?

Don't ban him, let him make an ass of himself. It's entertaining to some.
posted by juiceCake at 9:48 AM on September 3, 2005

juiceCake - That's kind of a weird example to use since it seems to refute rather than support what people are saying upthread. I hate when pundits claim to be taken out of context for getting called on their BS, but I think we really need a little here.

When I read this:

Thanks for the explanation, anapestic. To be honest, I was not certain of the group's goals. I never bothered to check them out. I just had an understand, from wherever derived, that it was more like a 30-15 thing. If it's more like 30-5, then I definitely see the issue of consent being outcome determinative.

...I don't see an intractable ideologue who's just here to stir shit and get a reaction. I see somebody engaged in an honest dialog who is perfectly willing to admit when they may have been wrong about something.

That's something that I welcome to MetaFilter, and he's hardly the only one with an abrasive conversational style.
posted by willnot at 10:20 AM on September 3, 2005

Can you say it's pleasant to have a conversation with someone who vigorously defends his position on something he knows nothing about and yet pretends to?

That describes (at least) half of MetaFilter. Admit it, you can't stand dios because you can't stand his positions. Go on, the truth will set you free.
posted by languagehat at 10:54 AM on September 3, 2005

That describes (at least) half of MetaFilter. Admit it, you can't stand dios because you can't stand his positions. Go on, the truth will set you free.

I would if I knew his positions, but I can only remember his tone. Of course, tone has nought to do with it I suppose.
posted by juiceCake at 3:03 PM on September 3, 2005

I don't see an intractable ideologue who's just here to stir shit and get a reaction. I see somebody engaged in an honest dialog who is perfectly willing to admit when they may have been wrong about something.

I did indeed comment on that. However, we'll have to disagree about the nature of his behaviour in that thread. I take an opening remark like:

I thought this was a [insert sexual orientation] friendly site?
posted by dios at 12:02 PM PST on July 22 [!]

to be entirely one that tries to dig at a hyprocrisy that isn't there. If it's fine to dig and stir shit up and then, finally, look into what you're speaking of then so be it. I wouldn't call that honest dialog.
posted by juiceCake at 3:37 PM on September 3, 2005

That has nought to do with finding [Dios'] posts a complete joke because he disagrees with you. It has everything to do with the manner in which he engages in a discussion, which is without even the most basic respect for the rules of engagement, such as being familiar with the subject being discussed for example...

That's really the kind of behavior you're applauding, languagehat and EB, when you stand up for that clown, and has nothing to do with the partisan strawman you invented.

People were engaging Dios legitimately in that thread, despite Dios not even bothering to do the same until, eventually, it finally occurred to him that the basic principle of at least finding out about the core subject being discussed came to him.
posted by juiceCake at 3:37 PM PST on September 3 [!]

Indeed. Dios is about as deliberately ignorant, slippery and dishonest as trolls get, and the NAMBLA thread was one of many demonstrations of it.
posted by Rothko at 4:14 PM on September 3, 2005

Your 'hate-dios' campaign is really obsessive Rothko. As an observer, seeing this non-stop vitriol doesn't so much incline me towards joining your team as much as it makes me question your temperament and motives. It can't be just me. Think about it. Any shred of validity to your arguments is diluted by shrill repetition. I can make my own mind up about dios's comments - which I do and constantly revise. I don't need your constant carping to read and understand better. It's actually insulting if you think people aren't capable of forming their own opinions.
posted by peacay at 4:35 PM on September 3, 2005

And...cut! Good work everyone. I've got the script, let's move on.
posted by craniac at 5:39 PM on September 3, 2005

I'm talking about an infestation of coastal, sexually ambiguous bigots who shout down anyone who doesn't validate their disease state.

I think this might be the single most offensive comment I have ever read on Metafilter, and I'm still not exactly sure what about it bothers me most. As conservative as I am, everytime I read a comment by this fucker I am almost ready to embrace Chomsky as my God.

While I hardly ever agree with Dios, he mostly seems like a decent guy. This paleocon guy is hate in a bottle.
posted by psmealey at 7:41 PM on September 3, 2005

I think this might be the single most offensive comment I have ever read on Metafilter, and I'm still not exactly sure what about it bothers me most. As conservative as I am, everytime I read a comment by this fucker I am almost ready to embrace Chomsky as my God.

I think thats the idea.
posted by delmoi at 9:31 PM on September 3, 2005

Rothko apparently hates Dios because they're so damn alike.
posted by Bugbread at 9:42 PM on September 3, 2005

Rothko apparently hates Dios because they're so damn alike.
posted by bugbread at 9:42 PM PST on September 3 [!]

Hardly, bugbread, because I actually contribute to the community — in many ways that I will be happy to link to for your benefit and everyone else here — and I don't troll. If I take a stand, I don't do it lightly: I believe in my argument and I defend it with facts. And when I'm wrong, I acknowledge and apologize (and have provided examples in the past to others, which can be repeated yet again, if need be).

I am as dissimilar from that clown as it gets, despite your childish comments and tedious hairsplitting that often misses the trees for the forest. And, of course, you're a complete saint, by your own admission, right? Or perhaps you can give your immature sniping at me a rest?
posted by Rothko at 9:47 AM on September 4, 2005

Small aside Rothko. In the context you used the expression regarding forest and trees, what you meant to say was that tedious hairsplitting that often misses the forest for the trees. Hairsplitting is represented by the trees, and the big picture is represented by the forest. Anyway...carry on with, whatever.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 9:20 PM on September 4, 2005

Trees are details to OCD patients, while the forest is the big.. oh, whatever. :P
posted by Rothko at 11:12 PM on September 4, 2005

Rothko : "I don't troll. If I take a stand, I don't do it lightly: I believe in my argument and I defend it with facts."

True, though sometimes you believe an argument, defend it with facts that, while true, don't actually provide a defense for your position, and then move onto defending it through sheer force of belief (i.e. "Copyright violation is theft because it just plain IS!"). But, yes, you provide far more facts than Dios or PP, and when you're right, you're right in spades.

Rothko : "And when I'm wrong, I acknowledge and apologize (and have provided examples in the past to others, which can be repeated yet again, if need be)."

Please do. (I don't say that in the snarky "I don't believe you've done it" way, just that I only remember one apology vaguely, and it was one of those apologies that started out "I apologize that I was wrong..." but ended out with "...which is why I was right". Unfortunately, I can't remember what argument that was)

Rothko : "I am as dissimilar from that clown as it gets, despite your childish comments and tedious hairsplitting that often misses the trees for the forest."

I would hope that whether you are similar or dissimilar from him is independant of my childish comments and tedious hairsplitting. My comments do not affect what you are or are not.

As far as "ban 'em all", it's only about as childish as your own "ban 'em all" for conservatives, but I put some liberal folks in as well. Apparently, that makes it childish. And your example of "tedious hairsplitting" is ridiculous. You imply that someone is crazy for saying something that they haven't actually said. I point out "they didn't say it". That's tedious hairsplitting?
I may as well quote you as saying:

Rothko: "I'm wrong".

And then call it "tedious hairsplitting" when you point out that that phrase was used in the context of "When I'm wrong, I acknowledge and apologize".

I am the king of tedious hairsplitting. Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not denying that. The example you provided just didn't happen to be an example of it. And you are the king of tedious obfuscation. Between the two of us, we probably annoy half of MeFi to death. I just think that my own brand of discussion, while bad for MeFi, is less poisonous than your contributions to political threads.

(Though on sober reflection, I should probably say that Amberglow makes some kick-ass posts and links, and is only really problematic in posts regarding conservatives or sexuality, which gets him worked up to the point of becoming Dioslike. Outside of those genres, he's a damn valuable poster, and even in those genres, he makes some great contributions, until someone disagrees with something and he goes offcourse. I, on the other hand, don't provide shit worth of links or posts, because I'm not a good filter).

Rothko : "of course, you're a complete saint, by your own admission, right? Or perhaps you can give your immature sniping at me a rest?"

When did I admit I was a saint? Puttin' words in my mouth again? Or is pointing that out "tedious hairsplitting"?

Asking me to stop immature sniping with you is like asking someone in a John Woo/Tarantino 3-way Mexican standoff to stop pointing their gun at someone. You're pointing your gun of immature sniping at conservative posters, I'm pointing at you, you're pointing at me, they're pointing at you...All it will take is for Dios or PP to get all pissed off at me to make the triangle complete.
posted by Bugbread at 3:09 AM on September 5, 2005

Please do.

Here are a few examples (1) (2) (3). I'm sure I could find more. Is that sufficient?

I point out "they didn't say it". That's tedious hairsplitting?

No, tedious hairsplitting is unraveling semantics until they no longer convey the original meaning, which you do to the point where the larger point is lost in your noise; which you did in the link I provided. While your logical disassembling of the two points may be strictly correct looking at them individually, the two points are not contradictory. Anyway, I can see that arguing the mechanics of this with you is a tiresome process and probably pointless.

As far as "ban 'em all", it's only about as childish as your own "ban 'em all" for conservatives

????????

Do you have a quote for this piece of bullshit? Anywhere? Would you kindly retract it, if not?

Just so that you get it in your thick skull, I've never called for PP to be banned, to name one example. In fact, I think I even defended him once in a similar Metatalk thread, where nearly everyone was calling for his head on a platter.

Wow, are you completely off the mark or what: Dios doesn't express political views, he shits on everyone else here. That's why so many others are sick of him. I may express political viewpoints in a cynical way, but I don't make a habit of repeatedly informing the entire community of people here that they should be ashamed of themselves because they don't share the view from my perch.

When you finally acknowledge that difference and quit your childish sniping, let's talk.
posted by Rothko at 9:41 AM on September 5, 2005

Rothko,

First, thanks for the examples of your admitting of mistakes.

Second, we disagree about the semantics example. I do think I'm often guilty of excessive hairsplitting, just not in that case. You strongly implied that someone was doing something that they weren't, I just pointed out that they weren't. However, in general, your comment probably stands: I do sometimes split hairs finely. I don't think it's so much missing the forest for the trees, because I usually see the forest, but then someone will come in and make some statement about the forest that is incorrect ("It's called a forest because it's made of unintelligent plant-life like Forest Gump"), and I go off on a tangent (and people get the mistaken belief that, because I'm arguing "It has nothing to do with Forest Gump!" that I'm not realizing that it is a forest nonetheless).

As for the "ban 'em all", it's the impression that you strongly give. I don't have a quote, largely because you propose your bans individually. However, I will take your word that you've never recommended the banning of PP, and I apologize. Out of curiosity, have you ever been on one of the "PP is a troll" wagons that rides through MeTa town?

As for Dios's statements: I dunno. Pretty much every damn one has to do with the President, Republicans, Democrats. I think by pretty much any measure that they are political views. You may also consider them to be shitting on everyone, but it isn't a one-or-the-other situation; it can be both.

So, you make many good points, and I apologize on a few. That said, I hope this part was a joke:

Rothko : "I don't make a habit of repeatedly informing the entire community of people here that they should be ashamed of themselves because they don't share the view from my perch."
posted by Bugbread at 4:15 PM on September 5, 2005

There's no "ban 'em all" impression, ah, but whatever... There are so many deliberate inaccuracies and insinuations in your response, bugbread, that it's probably best not to bother with one in kind.

I'll just leave you with this thought: I had nothing to do with the last five or six (at least) of Metatalk posts complaining about Dios' behavior. Two of those MeTa callouts came within hours of each other, from two different people, with concerns independent of one another. Figure that one out for yourself.
posted by Rothko at 7:09 PM on September 5, 2005

Rothko : "There are so many deliberate inaccuracies and insinuations in your response, bugbread, that it's probably best not to bother with one in kind. "

Which are deliberate? I wasn't aware of any (inaccuracies, yeah, but not deliberate, and no insinuations), and as far as I know, one can't do something deliberate without being aware of it.
posted by Bugbread at 9:48 PM on September 5, 2005