Fixing the returning anchor

October 17, 2005 5:46 PM

Call this Feature Requests/Etiquette: I'd like, upon flagging a comment (in this case, Carbolic's accidental doubling), to be returned to the #name from whence I came, rather than the head of the thread to scroll down.
Further this thread has been magnificent, at least to the extent that I've gotten, in both well-reasoned argumentation and a lack of calling each other douchebags. I'd like to point out that both Rothko and Dios have been excellent at engaging each other in a way that, while highlighting their disagreement, is about the facts and arguments that each is presenting. Good show you guys. This is why I joined Metafilter.
(You may now commence flaming me for whatever evils I have evidenced in this post).
posted by klangklangston to Feature Requests at 5:46 PM (88 comments total)

dios and jefgodesky recently had a discussion with very much light and only a litle heat that I greatly enjoyed reading, as well. I can't find it at the moment. Also the reason I joined Metafilter, as I mentioned at the time.

I was never one of those who wanted dios to go away, particularly, but I am glad he's back.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:15 PM on October 17, 2005

Rothko is always good.
posted by fire&wings at 6:17 PM on October 17, 2005

Are you drunk?
posted by vetiver at 6:17 PM on October 17, 2005

Rothko is always good.

Nobody's always good. Like most prominent posters, he's occasionally brilliant, occasionally infuriating, but usually worth listening to.

As far as verbal combat goes, when it's about the actual issue at hand it can be something to see, but if it gets personal and dissolves into semi-intellectualized playground taunting, then it's ugly.

(not talking about the thread in question or either Rothko or dios, just making an general observation)
posted by jonmc at 6:21 PM on October 17, 2005

It ain't perfect, but it's an improvement.
posted by Cyrano at 6:31 PM on October 17, 2005

Actually it was Carbolic's accidental quadrupling. Also, please notice my apology in the thread for my addressing Rothko intentionally and Godbert accidentally as Dickbert. My day has ended as a comedy of errors.

Rothko, for whatever reason, you push my buttons but I think you add to the site.
posted by Carbolic at 6:36 PM on October 17, 2005

I hate it when people call each other "douchebag". Everybody knows "poopyhead" is better.
posted by davy at 6:38 PM on October 17, 2005

Meh. I think Rothko turned into a complete ass in that thread, and found the likes of spiderwire, vacipinta, and a few others to be most engagingly informative.

If y'all think Rothko was angels and puppies in that thread, then I suppose I'll have to conclude that I'm hopelessly biased against him, and try to remember that when reading his posts in the future.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:39 PM on October 17, 2005

Carbolic: I tried to flag 'em all, but just didn't feel like scrolling... Hence the feature request...
But yeah, they're having the type of argument that you can have over beers and not hit the other guy, which is pretty dece', you know?
posted by klangklangston at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2005

My child is a high achiever on MetaFilter.com.

/This is the self esteem thread. Make of it what you will.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:47 PM on October 17, 2005

FFF: Reading through it further, I can see some mouth-frothing from Rothko, but I think he kept it pretty well down. And I think that Spiderwire was antagonistic but pretty fair. Overall, I think the thread is a successful one but not perfect. I just wanted to occassionally use positive reinforcment rather than the traditional "You're all retarded screamers without the brainpower to fuck a pig properly" callout.
posted by klangklangston at 6:53 PM on October 17, 2005

"You're all retarded screamers without the brainpower to fuck a pig properly"

You take it to the edge of a cliff to get you a little backwards action. What are you, fucking stupid?
posted by Cyrano at 6:56 PM on October 17, 2005

Not angels and puppies, no. I just like the feeling of my blood boiling every once in awhile. I haven't decides whether he is dense or purposely obtuse.
posted by Carbolic at 6:58 PM on October 17, 2005

Well, it seems like all of Rothko's comments were deleted...
posted by delmoi at 7:02 PM on October 17, 2005

I removed the last one each of Rothko's and dios's comments but I'm pretty sure the rest of them stayed.
posted by jessamyn at 7:04 PM on October 17, 2005

I found the following interesting:

• Dios was baiting me in nearly every comment, but no one called him on it (actually, spiderwire came closest to describing Dios' inability to address my points in any reasoned fashion)

• Five fresh fish, in particular, would defend Dios from one of two positions:

1) Dios is a self-described lawyer and therefore his word on legal subjects is sacrosanct, even despite publicly available information that invalidates many of his claims

2) My personal dislike of Dios immediately invalidates any factual evidence I introduce, which conflicts with Dios' assertions

Dios has still not responded to many legitimate complaints about his argument, my own included. He can pretend to be as polite as he likes but that doesn't make his assertions any more correct  — it just makes him pretend-polite. I'm as disappointed as ever that certain others are so biased here as to be deliberately blind to his behavior.
posted by Rothko at 7:04 PM on October 17, 2005

I wonder if the fact that it was posted at 8:00 had anything to do with it
posted by delmoi at 7:10 PM on October 17, 2005

jess: searching for "by rothko" on the page finds nothing but this.

Rothko has been memory holed.
posted by delmoi at 7:12 PM on October 17, 2005

Meh. I think Rothko turned into a complete ass in that thread, and found the likes of spiderwire, vacipinta, and a few others to be most engagingly informative.

Turned?
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on October 17, 2005

I can see all the Rothko posts. There's one right below the comment you linked to. Maybe capitalization?
posted by loquax at 7:17 PM on October 17, 2005

Delmoi, you're hardly in any position to talk with this completely random bit of assholery, sweetheart.
posted by Rothko at 7:19 PM on October 17, 2005

yeah, I count 12. Rothko that was weeks ago, chill.
posted by jessamyn at 7:19 PM on October 17, 2005

Pish tosh. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're baiting you (accept this as coming from someone who has, regrettably and intentionally baited you before). And not answering every single point you make is actually how discussions go, you know, with people.
Anyway, I was trying to pay you a compliment, and I hope you take it in that spirit. The way you were dealing with Dios at the beginning of the thread was pretty measured and smart. Don't worry, the rest of us can see when he evades and make our own determinations on whether it's important or not. Plenty of people are waiting to call him on whatever. And it's not like you responded comprehendingly to every point he made.
Again, was trying to compliment you on the fact that you were still aggressive and about as polite as the internet can expect to see, but weren't going over the line or poisoning the discourse. Since I apparently didn't see the final comments from you and Dios, I can live with my illusion that you both stayed pretty much in the acceptable level of discussion for a site that wishes to also have a cohesive community.
posted by klangklangston at 7:19 PM on October 17, 2005

Delmoi, I'm not sure what went wrong with your search, but a quick run by me found "by Rothko" 13 times, of which 12 were his comments and one was a quote of one of his by dios. Perhaps you should check if your search is case-sensitive or something.
posted by mystyk at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2005

That was to Rothko, by the way.
Hey Jessemyn, I guess I have to wait for Matt to get my pony, right? I can't imagine that it would be that hard to code, and it would make me ever-so-happy.
posted by klangklangston at 7:22 PM on October 17, 2005

The greatest trick Rothko ever pulled was convincing the world his posts didn't exist.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:23 PM on October 17, 2005

A couple things:

You're all retarded screamers without the brainpower to fuck a pig properly

So, asking for a friend of mine of course, how do you fuck a pig properly? Maybe I should post that to AskMe.

On the feature request: yes, I'd like that also.

Just imagine if we could get to the point where if a certain person (anyone) was not being a butthead, and we didn't even have to point out anymore that said person wasn't being a butthead.

I enjoy a watching a good flame-out from time to time, but the personal sniping gets tiresome and it was nice to see some folks making an effort in that thread.
posted by marxchivist at 7:53 PM on October 17, 2005

Well, yeah, but neither Rothko nor Dios is man enough to cut their fucking hands off or meet with swords at dawn.
If you're not up to that, you should just be cordial and accept it.
posted by klangklangston at 8:03 PM on October 17, 2005

I'd like, upon flagging a comment (in this case, Carbolic's accidental doubling), to be returned to the #name from whence I came, rather than the head of the thread to scroll down.

Done!
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:18 PM on October 17, 2005

Thanks Chief!
posted by klangklangston at 8:35 PM on October 17, 2005

that thread reminded me of why I first came to love metafilter. not just the reasoned debate (despite those little grudges peaking their heads around the corner slightly) but the fact that someone with legitimate professional knowledge came in to drop the science, and then had the patience to explain it to the laymen-and-women.
posted by shmegegge at 10:17 PM on October 17, 2005

I can see all the Rothko posts. There's one right below the comment you linked to. Maybe capitalization?

Uh, nevermind, I'm an idiot.
posted by delmoi at 10:29 PM on October 17, 2005

Well, yeah, but neither Rothko nor Dios is man enough to cut their fucking hands off or meet with swords at dawn.
If you're not up to that, you should just be cordial and accept it.

Yeah , why dont we hire a boxing ring so they can meet up and settle their differences that way ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:07 AM on October 18, 2005

Yeah , why dont we hire a boxing ring so they can meet up and settle their differences that way ?

or one of those two-person cones of silence from Get Smart?
posted by shmegegge at 3:33 AM on October 18, 2005

Because civility brings the people together.
posted by Wolof at 4:11 AM on October 18, 2005

Whassyerpoint?
posted by klangklangston at 5:47 AM on October 18, 2005

Thanks for this post, because I would have missed the extremely enlightening discussion in the MeFi thread. But I disagree with the premise; in that thread, dios's behavior was exemplary and his arguments seemed plausible to this nonlawyer (not saying they're right, just that I think it would take someone with equal knowledge of the law to refute them), whereas Rothko seemed his usual belligerent, insulting self ("I suppose I could call you an asshole but that would be redundant by now"). He accuses dios of baiting him? He was baiting dios (among others) repeatedly and nastily, and it's greatly to dios's credit that he barely responded, especially given his frequent hair-trigger responses in the past. And Rothko's "here's some stuff I just googled up" doesn't exactly balance dios's long experience with the material. Again, I'm not saying dios is right, just that Rothko doesn't have any more idea whether he is than I do, and he looks foolish jumping up and down hollering "But what about these links I just googled up??"

*waits for vicious insult from Rothko*
posted by languagehat at 8:47 AM on October 18, 2005

How I've longed for a Metatalk thread about these guys. It's about time.
posted by Skot at 9:06 AM on October 18, 2005

Thanks for the pointout, klangklangston. That thread improved my image of both dios and rothko.
posted by Bugbread at 9:30 AM on October 18, 2005

Sadly, Klang's appreciation for intelligent discourse without name calling does not extend to his own posts.
posted by Elpoca at 9:45 AM on October 18, 2005

I'm not a patient person, but I appreciate patient people. And I'm happy about the times when I'm patient. I'm not a funny guy, but I like funny guys. And I'm happy when I make a joke that gets good laughs. Why do you assume that Klang's use of name calling indicates he doesn't appreciate those occasions when he doesn't call names?
posted by Bugbread at 9:49 AM on October 18, 2005

That's the best you could do, Elpoca? I bet you could even find threads where I acted like an ass that didn't involve your "insipid and meaningless argument."

LH: I disagree, but that's kind of apparent. I think that as compared to other arguments between them, that thread was fairly decent. And while I hope that my post wasn't misconstrued as holding them out as paragons, I did genuinely enjoy the discussion (aside from some random bits that seemed to creep in towards the end). I guess that what I'm trying to say is that even with the dickery, the thread was still great. And I'd argue that the dickery wasn't too out of bounds based on my experience with reading the site.

(As a side note, I'm voluntarily sitting out from the blue for a bit because I realized that I was being a giant ass on it. So while I appreciate the "Hey, and here's where you were a dick too! HYPOCRITE!" comments, it's not like I'm really gonna pay 'em a tremendous amount of heed. Especially when they come from kinda obvious grudges...)
posted by klangklangston at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2005

*waits for vicious insult from Rothko*
posted by languagehat at 8:47 AM PST on October 18 [!]

You would like that, wouldn't you? I mean, that's why you wrote what you wrote, after all.
posted by Rothko at 10:36 AM on October 18, 2005

The other shoe almost always drops, Rothko.
posted by Kwantsar at 10:48 AM on October 18, 2005

Rothko: The "You'd like that, wouldn't you?" should be said in the Wallace Shawn voice from Princess Bride.
posted by klangklangston at 10:56 AM on October 18, 2005

The other shoe almost always drops, Rothko.
posted by Kwantsar at 10:48 AM PST on October 18 [!]

Not sure how that relates to anything, but languagehat has vandalized my (AskMe) posts before. So it's not like he's not here without a grudge of one sort or another.
posted by Rothko at 11:03 AM on October 18, 2005

Not sure how that relates to anything, but languagehat has vandalized my (AskMe) posts before.

Really? Which ones?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:20 AM on October 18, 2005

Well, he vandalized my sailing thread, but Matt deleted his comments, so I can't really give you links on that one. I'm sure I could find other unwelcome comments if I cared to. He's not really worth the time, frankly.
posted by Rothko at 11:25 AM on October 18, 2005

Watch out, everybody! Kettle’s on the boil, again.
posted by Pot at 11:31 AM on October 18, 2005

Pot is a gateway drug. 500 Milligrams of batshit insane, stat!
posted by Kettle at 11:31 AM on October 18, 2005

I'm sure I could find other unwelcome comments if I cared to.

I guess we'll just have to take your word for it, then, won't we?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:45 AM on October 18, 2005

It's disappoining that certain people here are so cowardly.
posted by Rothko at 11:46 AM on October 18, 2005

I guess we'll just have to take your word for it, then, won't we?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:45 AM PST on October 18 [!]

I guess the same way a lot of you take dios on his word about legal issues, even when I can "google up" some primary evidence that contradicts his claims and negates his argument-by-authority.
posted by Rothko at 11:50 AM on October 18, 2005

I just ate a bowl of raisin bran. Mmmm. Fiber.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2005

It’s disappointing that certain people here are made of iron.
posted by Pot at 12:00 PM on October 18, 2005

It’s disappointing that certain people here don’t get enough fiber.
posted by Kettle at 12:00 PM on October 18, 2005

I guess the same way a lot of you take dios on his word about legal issues, even when I can "google up" some primary evidence that contradicts his claims and negates his argument-by-authority.

Careful with that "you," Rothko. I certainly didn't "take dios on his word" about his legal arguments, and at least three others engaged him in a debate regarding his central claims. And if you're so eager to offer us primary evidence, why not some evidence of languagehat's "vandalism?" Or does that street only run one direction?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:00 PM on October 18, 2005

It's disappoining that certain people here are so cowardly.

Actually naming the people you're trashing would be a lot less ironic.
posted by cortex at 12:14 PM on October 18, 2005

Or does that street only run one direction?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:00 PM PST on October 18 [!]

Well, like I said, languagehat is not really worth it. I don't expect anything more or less from this person, whoever he is, other than his typical axe grinding. I mean, his comment in this thread is so dishonest why should I even bother? For example, my so-called "belligerent" comment was directed at someone else entirely, who had apologized twice (thank you, Carbolic) for wrongly picking a fight.
posted by Rothko at 12:17 PM on October 18, 2005

Well, like I said, languagehat is not really worth it.

But dios is?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:19 PM on October 18, 2005

bugbread : "That thread improved my image of both dios and rothko."

I may want to put this comment on hold.
posted by Bugbread at 12:21 PM on October 18, 2005

And Rothko, you seem generally incapable of commenting in a thread without putting up your rhetorical dukes. You scrap constantly. How is that not belligerent?
posted by cortex at 12:24 PM on October 18, 2005

But dios is?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:19 PM PST on October 18 [!]

It was an interesting thread. I was attempting to address dios on the content of his comments, believe it or not.
posted by Rothko at 12:25 PM on October 18, 2005

And Rothko, you seem generally incapable of commenting in a thread without putting up your rhetorical dukes. You scrap constantly. How is that not belligerent?
posted by cortex at 12:24 PM PST on October 18 [!]

You know, I add a lot more here than just the odd scrap. But keep grindin' that axe, for whatever reasons you need to.
posted by Rothko at 12:29 PM on October 18, 2005

It's not really all that much of an axe, and I don't grind it to hard. And you're right -- I will explicitly exclude AskMe from my accusation. You really do mix it up a lot on the grey, though, and the blue. Maybe you don't see it like that, but as an essentially neutral party (I've got no specific personal beef with you or any other louder-than-average-mouth on the site) I can honestly tell you that you fight when you don't need to, way too much.
posted by cortex at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2005

Rothko,

Sorry, I don't have access to email right now, but I just wanted to point out a little html problem on the Metadash page you linked. In the "Bounding" div, towards the bottom, you have:

<div id="window_container">/div>

You're missing a "<".

Strangely, the first time I loaded the page, that borked up the appearance (the page started with the word "/div>"), but when I reloaded, the page looked fine, even though the source was the same. Either way, thought you might want to know.
posted by Bugbread at 12:38 PM on October 18, 2005

If you want to obsess over the odd rhetorical scrap and multiply it out of all proportion, that's your problem, not mine.
posted by Rothko at 12:39 PM on October 18, 2005

MetaFilter: your problem, not mine
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2005

I said this over on MetaChat but now I feel compelled to say it here. I have been reading MetaFilter for several years. Since Rothko has started posting, I have enjoyed it significantly less. It has nothing to do with his politics (which I mostly share). I find it hard to read posts that contain comments by him these days because they mainly devolve into grudge matches and shit-flinging.
posted by trey at 1:30 PM on October 18, 2005

Since Rothko has started posting, I have enjoyed it significantly less. It has nothing to do with his politics (which I mostly share). I find it hard to read posts that contain comments by him these days because they mainly devolve into grudge matches and shit-flinging.


I second, third and forth that emotion. Jesus christ he's tiring.
posted by tristeza at 1:33 PM on October 18, 2005

When I was forced to change my account name, I was on good behavior since. It's a shame that constant, tiresome picking from the usual parties has returned things to the way they were. /shrug
posted by Rothko at 1:56 PM on October 18, 2005

"..constant, tiresome picking from the usual parties..."

Read that back to yourself, Rothko.
posted by tristeza at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2005

Meh. Getting people to understand is like talking to a brick wall. Enjoy your pile-on.
posted by Rothko at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2005

Let me just say that "he vandalized my sailing thread" could be a fantastic catch-phrase.

As in, "Matt!! He vandalized my sailing thread!!"
posted by Mid at 2:08 PM on October 18, 2005

Rothko, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about with regard to AskMe. I have never allowed problems in the gray to influence my responses on AskMe; for instance, a while back Mayor Curley and I had been having at each other here, but he asked a question in the green about dinnerware and I gave him my best information as meek as you please. (Hope it didn't break, Mayor!) I think most people would agree that, while I can get as snarky as the next person in the heat of battle, I rarely hold grudges and am easily won over. I admit that seeing your username gives me hives, but I would never "vandalize" an AskMe thread of yours (whatever that odd verb is intended to mean—posting quonsar's pissing elephant?); the worst I would do is ignore it. But, conveniently, your "evidence" has disappeared, so I guess we'll just have to take your word for it.
posted by languagehat at 2:28 PM on October 18, 2005

Liar. But then I guess I can't expect much better at this point.
posted by Rothko at 2:36 PM on October 18, 2005

Man, some people just get tiring after a while, don't they? Rothko, I don't really know you so perhaps shouldn't judge but you really give the appearance around here of being a complete fucking idiot sometimes.
posted by dg at 2:55 PM on October 18, 2005

Of course. "I disagree with you, therefore you are an idiot." Sounds about right.
posted by Rothko at 3:00 PM on October 18, 2005

Why is Kettle so obsessed with me?
posted by Pot at 3:08 PM on October 18, 2005

Tell me, Pot – I’m curious: Are you a vampire?
posted by Kettle at 3:08 PM on October 18, 2005

WTF are you raving about now, Kettle?
posted by Pot at 3:09 PM on October 18, 2005

It’s just that you seem oddly incapable of self-reflection.
posted by Kettle at 3:09 PM on October 18, 2005

Still as unfunny as ever.
posted by Rothko at 3:12 PM on October 18, 2005

Why do you respond? WHY?

We now have another AR/Rothko grudge match.

Please stick a fork in it matt - it's done.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:31 PM on October 18, 2005

We now have another AR/Rothko grudge match.

I'll stop when certain people who know who they are stop picking and picking. Or we can keep doing this over and again. It's your move, folks.
posted by Rothko at 3:40 PM on October 18, 2005

No, I wanna have the last word!
posted by event at 3:43 PM on October 18, 2005

Everybody else is mad! Mad, I tell you!

Also - last word, event.
posted by Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather at 3:45 PM on October 18, 2005

I think it is time to close it up. Rothko, try not to take everything so seriously.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:46 PM on October 18, 2005