Bad Answers on AskMe March 10, 2006 8:50 PM Subscribe
Q: "I'm unhappy about my wage system as a waiter." A: "stop being a whiner". I also don't think "move to Australia" is a very helpfull answer either.
The poster asked a very spesific question:
So my question to you all is the legaility of all this. I've tried going through the arbitration route with no luck, so I'm wondering if there exists any legal options. What are the (California) standards and labor laws regarding unequivocal wage distribution? Or maybe some resources I can be directed to to learn more about my rights and/or whether they're being infringed.
Lately it seems like AskMe is getting overloaded with JudgeMe B.S. I can understand in a Human Relations question, but this is just absurd.
I think perhaps some sort of feedback system where people are told when their "answers" are deleted would help keep people in line. As it is now, answers are removed without anyone knowing, so unless they go back and reread the thread they won't even realize that they were even doing something wrong.
posted by delmoi at 8:54 PM on March 10, 2006
So my question to you all is the legaility of all this. I've tried going through the arbitration route with no luck, so I'm wondering if there exists any legal options. What are the (California) standards and labor laws regarding unequivocal wage distribution? Or maybe some resources I can be directed to to learn more about my rights and/or whether they're being infringed.
Lately it seems like AskMe is getting overloaded with JudgeMe B.S. I can understand in a Human Relations question, but this is just absurd.
I think perhaps some sort of feedback system where people are told when their "answers" are deleted would help keep people in line. As it is now, answers are removed without anyone knowing, so unless they go back and reread the thread they won't even realize that they were even doing something wrong.
posted by delmoi at 8:54 PM on March 10, 2006
If only there existed a system whereby we could easily notify the administration of an inappropriate comment without having to complain on MeTa.
MeTa Callouts are a time-honored tradition!
posted by delmoi at 8:55 PM on March 10, 2006
MeTa Callouts are a time-honored tradition!
posted by delmoi at 8:55 PM on March 10, 2006
If only there was some way of sending private messages to commenters to let them know why their comments were deleted. Like an electronic address that they could provide in their profile.
posted by desuetude at 9:05 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by desuetude at 9:05 PM on March 10, 2006
I also don't think "move to Australia" is a very helpfull answer either.
Why, you ever been there?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:08 PM on March 10, 2006
Why, you ever been there?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:08 PM on March 10, 2006
Damn, most of the comments in that thread are shit. "Your Entitledness"? You Americans need to learn about unionism, and quick.
(Spoken like a true Australian).
posted by Jimbob at 9:15 PM on March 10, 2006
(Spoken like a true Australian).
posted by Jimbob at 9:15 PM on March 10, 2006
I have discovered a way to notify the administrator of a transgression of protocol.
posted by puke & cry at 9:25 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by puke & cry at 9:25 PM on March 10, 2006
Just out of curiosity, why are you pointing out the flagging system? Do you honestly believe I'm not aware of it?
posted by delmoi at 9:30 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by delmoi at 9:30 PM on March 10, 2006
This thread about the legality of limiting access to restrooms in cafes has comments like "quit your hipster bitching" (though to be fair, that poster later apologized)
I think that if you read ask.me a lot you start getting the sense that everyone's a whiner, true. But people need to remember that others come to ask.me because they have problems they need to solve. its a highly skewed sample! Not everyone has dire relationship problems, has a cancerous growth, has a neighbor who wants to kill them and is going to NYC next weekend. I think it helps if people get a sense of perspective before they get into the "whining" accusation.
If you cant answer the question, dont post.
posted by vacapinta at 9:31 PM on March 10, 2006
I think that if you read ask.me a lot you start getting the sense that everyone's a whiner, true. But people need to remember that others come to ask.me because they have problems they need to solve. its a highly skewed sample! Not everyone has dire relationship problems, has a cancerous growth, has a neighbor who wants to kill them and is going to NYC next weekend. I think it helps if people get a sense of perspective before they get into the "whining" accusation.
If you cant answer the question, dont post.
posted by vacapinta at 9:31 PM on March 10, 2006
To be fair, I believe puke & cry when he says he only just discovered the flagging system.
[Self-flagged]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:32 PM on March 10, 2006
[Self-flagged]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:32 PM on March 10, 2006
That is, I'm with delmoi in noticing a larger trend here not addressed by comment-by-comment flags.
puke & cry: if you dont like this thread, why dont you take your own advice and shut up and flag it.
posted by vacapinta at 9:32 PM on March 10, 2006
puke & cry: if you dont like this thread, why dont you take your own advice and shut up and flag it.
posted by vacapinta at 9:32 PM on March 10, 2006
Just out of curiosity, why are you pointing out the flagging system? Do you honestly believe I'm not aware of it?
I believe the point is that you should have flagged it and not posted this stupid meta callout. That's why we have the flags. Do you really think this callout is going to be productive in any way?
posted by puke & cry at 9:43 PM on March 10, 2006
I believe the point is that you should have flagged it and not posted this stupid meta callout. That's why we have the flags. Do you really think this callout is going to be productive in any way?
posted by puke & cry at 9:43 PM on March 10, 2006
puke & cry: if you dont like this thread, why dont you take your own advice and shut up and flag it.
I don't believe I post a metatalk callout whenever someone gets my panties in a wad. Correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by puke & cry at 9:45 PM on March 10, 2006
I don't believe I post a metatalk callout whenever someone gets my panties in a wad. Correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by puke & cry at 9:45 PM on March 10, 2006
Damn, most of the comments in that thread are shit. "Your Entitledness"? You Americans need to learn about unionism, and quick.
Uh, maybe, but comparing your corporate overlords to Nazis is so far beyond the pale that to not mock would be impossible.
posted by bshort at 9:46 PM on March 10, 2006
Uh, maybe, but comparing your corporate overlords to Nazis is so far beyond the pale that to not mock would be impossible.
posted by bshort at 9:46 PM on March 10, 2006
I was getting a melodramatic, tongue-in-cheek Soup Nazi-esque vibe off of that.
If it had been a problem in an office setting, and the poster had complained about the Copy Machine Nazi, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:00 PM on March 10, 2006
If it had been a problem in an office setting, and the poster had complained about the Copy Machine Nazi, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:00 PM on March 10, 2006
Uh, maybe, but comparing your corporate overlords to Nazis is so far beyond the pale that to not mock would be impossible.
Well if he had asked "Is it appropriate to compare my bosses to Nazis" then the comments would been appropriate. But he did not and they are not.
If a poster's attitude turns you off, then just don't answer.
posted by delmoi at 10:09 PM on March 10, 2006
Well if he had asked "Is it appropriate to compare my bosses to Nazis" then the comments would been appropriate. But he did not and they are not.
If a poster's attitude turns you off, then just don't answer.
posted by delmoi at 10:09 PM on March 10, 2006
I believe the point is that you should have flagged it and not posted this stupid meta callout. That's why we have the flags. Do you really think this callout is going to be productive in any way?
Posting the thread will give us an opportunity to discuss the increasing bitchyness in AskMe, which the flagging system could not accomplish.
posted by delmoi at 10:11 PM on March 10, 2006
Posting the thread will give us an opportunity to discuss the increasing bitchyness in AskMe, which the flagging system could not accomplish.
posted by delmoi at 10:11 PM on March 10, 2006
This has been driving me nuts lately - people who don't seem to understand the question and instead spout off. The question here is "Is this legal?" The answer, it would seem, is a simple "Yes. If your coworkers aren't united, find someplace else that better suits your needs if you can't deal with it". That's all. No judgement, no going on and on about "buying a clue."
AskMe is supposed to be free of the snarkiness of the blue. You're asked to keep things to answering the question. I'm hoping this is just something that will blow over - isn't spring break around now? Maybe there are people on break who are sick of reading comprehension and so aren't paying close attention before spouting off?
(That said, this thread was far from the best example of this phenomenon - this was pretty on-topic and tame comparatively.)
posted by Iamtherealme at 10:12 PM on March 10, 2006
AskMe is supposed to be free of the snarkiness of the blue. You're asked to keep things to answering the question. I'm hoping this is just something that will blow over - isn't spring break around now? Maybe there are people on break who are sick of reading comprehension and so aren't paying close attention before spouting off?
(That said, this thread was far from the best example of this phenomenon - this was pretty on-topic and tame comparatively.)
posted by Iamtherealme at 10:12 PM on March 10, 2006
What's to discuss?
Bitchyness has zero place in AskMe.
Members know that and should respect it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:13 PM on March 10, 2006
Bitchyness has zero place in AskMe.
Members know that and should respect it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:13 PM on March 10, 2006
Q: "I'm unhappy about my wage system as a waiter."
That is a statement, not a question.
A: "stop being a whiner".
That is a command, not an answer.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:14 PM on March 10, 2006
That is a statement, not a question.
A: "stop being a whiner".
That is a command, not an answer.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:14 PM on March 10, 2006
Uh, maybe, but comparing your corporate overlords to Nazis is so far beyond the pale that to not mock would be impossible.
Look stuff gets compared to Nazis the whole time on the internet. I believe there's even some special term the "cool kids" use to describe the phenomenon. In that context, it doesn't seem too out of place to use it to describe employers like these. 6-hour no-break shifts on minimum wage with managers who say "fuck you, it's what you signed up for" and no means of furthering your cause for better conditions... sounds like a modern-day labour camp to me.
posted by Jimbob at 10:14 PM on March 10, 2006
Look stuff gets compared to Nazis the whole time on the internet. I believe there's even some special term the "cool kids" use to describe the phenomenon. In that context, it doesn't seem too out of place to use it to describe employers like these. 6-hour no-break shifts on minimum wage with managers who say "fuck you, it's what you signed up for" and no means of furthering your cause for better conditions... sounds like a modern-day labour camp to me.
posted by Jimbob at 10:14 PM on March 10, 2006
"Please do not use AskMe comments as a forum for your moral outrage."
God, I wish that was posted somewhere prominent.
posted by mediareport at 10:15 PM on March 10, 2006
God, I wish that was posted somewhere prominent.
posted by mediareport at 10:15 PM on March 10, 2006
delmoi, you're not wrong about the increasing noise in AskMe (I especially love the flogging of anons, the creative ways people will speculate about an asker's ulterior motives or "real" issues, and the way they take umbrage at an asker's poor choice of words). But what's the solution? MeTa callouts, while a time-honored tradition, are somewhat deprecated by the flagging system. Callouts are great for drawing attention to drama but they create clutter and pileons. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more deletions of unhelpful comments, but deletions always bring out the "OMG cenxxorship" crowd, which is very tiring for Matt and Jess. Followup-after-deletion is good, and sometimes happens if your email is in your profile, but I can't imagine the mods have the time or energy to apply it in every case.
On preview:
Posting the thread will give us an opportunity to discuss the increasing bitchyness in AskMe, which the flagging system could not accomplish.
Yeah, okay. But it was framed more like an individual, specific callout than a general thing.
posted by Gator at 10:18 PM on March 10, 2006
On preview:
Posting the thread will give us an opportunity to discuss the increasing bitchyness in AskMe, which the flagging system could not accomplish.
Yeah, okay. But it was framed more like an individual, specific callout than a general thing.
posted by Gator at 10:18 PM on March 10, 2006
Yeah, okay. But it was framed more like an individual, specific callout than a general thing.
Yeah, I had a vague more-inside with my first comment, which wasn't the first comment in the thread. I suppose I could have worded it better.
Oh well.
posted by delmoi at 10:27 PM on March 10, 2006
Yeah, I had a vague more-inside with my first comment, which wasn't the first comment in the thread. I suppose I could have worded it better.
Oh well.
posted by delmoi at 10:27 PM on March 10, 2006
I don't think this MeTa thread is very helpful either. Quick! Time to make a MeTa thread!
posted by Effigy2000 at 10:35 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by Effigy2000 at 10:35 PM on March 10, 2006
I knew I was not being helpful in my answer (and predicted that it would and should be deleted). However, I felt strongly that Machiavelli was wrong to obsess over this; strongly enough to put in my 2ยข. Yeah, I could have just skipped the thread, but if everyone skips the thread and no one tells the person "hey, you're in the wrong", doesn't that make AskMe less valuable, ultimately?
I agree that I might have been too heated with the "stop being a whiner", but really it wasn't written with a heated tone of voice.
posted by evariste at 11:04 PM on March 10, 2006
I agree that I might have been too heated with the "stop being a whiner", but really it wasn't written with a heated tone of voice.
posted by evariste at 11:04 PM on March 10, 2006
I don't think delmoi's callout is out of line, though. These things are worth talking about, and actually, I felt some desire to flag the Australia answer, but resisted it, knowing that my answer was going to be even less "helpful", if helpful is defined as "answering the question the person asked".
posted by evariste at 11:07 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by evariste at 11:07 PM on March 10, 2006
evariste, you probably could have made the same point in a more helpful and less antagonistic way, something that challenged the asker to rethink his situation without causing him to pull back and wish he hadn't Asked MeFi in the first place.
I don't think we should necessarily stay completely out of AskMe threads where we have a comment that doesn't directly answer the question asked. We can still contribute alternate viewpoints and additional ideas if we're thoughtful and helpful.
To provide a non-highly-charged example from my own posting history, this question asked specifically for recipes. I posted an answer that didn't address that directly, but it ended up flagged as the best answer. If I had phrased it as, "You over-privileged bitch, why don't you think about the starving homeless and elderly people in your city instead of your own fat ass," or something to that effect, I suspect it wouldn't've been as well-received. Y'know?
posted by Gator at 11:15 PM on March 10, 2006
I don't think we should necessarily stay completely out of AskMe threads where we have a comment that doesn't directly answer the question asked. We can still contribute alternate viewpoints and additional ideas if we're thoughtful and helpful.
To provide a non-highly-charged example from my own posting history, this question asked specifically for recipes. I posted an answer that didn't address that directly, but it ended up flagged as the best answer. If I had phrased it as, "You over-privileged bitch, why don't you think about the starving homeless and elderly people in your city instead of your own fat ass," or something to that effect, I suspect it wouldn't've been as well-received. Y'know?
posted by Gator at 11:15 PM on March 10, 2006
Gator: you're perfectly right. I think I probably took the question a little too personally.
posted by evariste at 11:22 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by evariste at 11:22 PM on March 10, 2006
I think I probably took the question a little too personally.
In the sense of, I imagined still being a waiter, and a coworker suing my workplace and costing them exorbitant legal fees over what, in my mind, is such a minor non-issue. There seemed to be a sense of ingratitude and entitlement in the question that really grated on my nerves. Waiting tables is a job that pays probably the best money someone with no marketable skills or education can earn. To find out, ok, he makes $6.75 plus tips (vs. $2.13 + tips in my state), his restaurant hires people and pays them $15/hr to give him a break (they could just as easily make waiters share tips with each other), and sometimes he had to cover someone's tables without extra compensation for half an hour so he could take a legally-mandated break; sometimes he was the beneficiary of this policy. Cry me a river. This is a reason to sic the government on your company?
posted by evariste at 11:30 PM on March 10, 2006
In the sense of, I imagined still being a waiter, and a coworker suing my workplace and costing them exorbitant legal fees over what, in my mind, is such a minor non-issue. There seemed to be a sense of ingratitude and entitlement in the question that really grated on my nerves. Waiting tables is a job that pays probably the best money someone with no marketable skills or education can earn. To find out, ok, he makes $6.75 plus tips (vs. $2.13 + tips in my state), his restaurant hires people and pays them $15/hr to give him a break (they could just as easily make waiters share tips with each other), and sometimes he had to cover someone's tables without extra compensation for half an hour so he could take a legally-mandated break; sometimes he was the beneficiary of this policy. Cry me a river. This is a reason to sic the government on your company?
posted by evariste at 11:30 PM on March 10, 2006
Having worked in many a corporate restaurant, I provided what I thought was an honest answer AND some snarkiness. Do I get partial credit?
All right, I promise to de-snark the actual answers from now on.
posted by frogan at 11:35 PM on March 10, 2006
All right, I promise to de-snark the actual answers from now on.
posted by frogan at 11:35 PM on March 10, 2006
evariste: Sure, sure. I know exactly what you mean, there have been oodles of questions posted where I sat here fuming about (my perceptions of) the asker's attitude. I'm no better than anyone else, I sit here in my chair and make judgments based on people's word choices and "tone" and my own experiences just like a lot (most?) of us. I just try (and I may not always succeed, but I do try) to keep the usefulness of the site in mind when I respond, as well as the idea that I might be able to make more of an impression if I'm not using harsh, berating language, that's all. Flies, honey, catching methodologies, y'know.
posted by Gator at 11:39 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by Gator at 11:39 PM on March 10, 2006
Gator-thanks, yes. I'll try to keep those things in mind too.
posted by evariste at 11:43 PM on March 10, 2006
posted by evariste at 11:43 PM on March 10, 2006
I usually find myself in agreement with delmoi (even if I have no idea how to pronounce his username).
But, this time, I've got to disagree.
The Australia comment adds information, and so it's useful. It's not terribly useful, because moving to Australia is a rather large undertaking, but it does point out that there are other compensation systems for waiters than the American system.
And who knows, a particularly footloose waiter might even make the trip.
So let's save the sweating for "move to Mars, cockbreath" and let the "hey we do it differently in Oz" slide.
posted by orthogonality at 12:53 AM on March 11, 2006
But, this time, I've got to disagree.
The Australia comment adds information, and so it's useful. It's not terribly useful, because moving to Australia is a rather large undertaking, but it does point out that there are other compensation systems for waiters than the American system.
And who knows, a particularly footloose waiter might even make the trip.
So let's save the sweating for "move to Mars, cockbreath" and let the "hey we do it differently in Oz" slide.
posted by orthogonality at 12:53 AM on March 11, 2006
noticing a larger trend here
Yes, there is a lot of unhelpful shite in AskMe these days, and delmoi is right to open the topic up with a clear example. MeTa isn't for reporting instances, it's for using instances to decide what to do about larger trends.
If you can't make a better "just flag it" crack than the ones in this thread, really, you should simply say the words "just flag it" (and move on).
posted by scarabic at 1:33 AM on March 11, 2006
Yes, there is a lot of unhelpful shite in AskMe these days, and delmoi is right to open the topic up with a clear example. MeTa isn't for reporting instances, it's for using instances to decide what to do about larger trends.
If you can't make a better "just flag it" crack than the ones in this thread, really, you should simply say the words "just flag it" (and move on).
posted by scarabic at 1:33 AM on March 11, 2006
Damn, most of the comments in that thread are shit. "Your Entitledness"? You Americans need to learn about unionism, and quick.
(Spoken like a true Australian).
With the greatest respect to my fellow countryman...
I am one of these people, who have been a member of my industrial organisation for over 18 years. Fat fucking good being a member of a union did us, thank you very fucking much. Furthermore, anyone who suggests that casual work is somehow better here (if you aren't being paid in cash) is dreaming. May I present the shrub's new industrial relations laws.
posted by fullysic at 2:54 AM on March 11, 2006
(Spoken like a true Australian).
With the greatest respect to my fellow countryman...
I am one of these people, who have been a member of my industrial organisation for over 18 years. Fat fucking good being a member of a union did us, thank you very fucking much. Furthermore, anyone who suggests that casual work is somehow better here (if you aren't being paid in cash) is dreaming. May I present the shrub's new industrial relations laws.
posted by fullysic at 2:54 AM on March 11, 2006
A little fact that may help shed light on my particular Ask.Me thread....I'm not the first person to view this as an injustice. In fact, just about every employee bitches about it, but they're all either too apathetic or scared to follow through with anything. I only started working there three months ago, and being the only person with the temerity to take this issue to the next level, I've gotten nothing but support from every last employee I've discussed it with.
I think the point people missed about my question was the overall principle. It's not about the $4.12 difference. Hell, I can shit $4.12 in pennies after a hearty meal. It's about the principle of earning your keep and rising up against a system that sticks it to you in a "take it or leave it" sort of way.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2006
I think the point people missed about my question was the overall principle. It's not about the $4.12 difference. Hell, I can shit $4.12 in pennies after a hearty meal. It's about the principle of earning your keep and rising up against a system that sticks it to you in a "take it or leave it" sort of way.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2006
I didn't quite finish...
It's a matter of being told something is black or white but egging to find common ground in the grey. I'm all about spelunking that cavern.
As for the Nazi thing, I'm Jewish, and I live with a grandfather who escaped Austria with only the clothes on his back. The rest of his family wasn't so lucky. So you're probably thinking, "Then why the fuck would you make light of Nazis?" Well, maybe because I can separate facetiousness from reality.
So again, another characterization cast upon me by those quick to draw their weapons.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:36 AM on March 11, 2006
It's a matter of being told something is black or white but egging to find common ground in the grey. I'm all about spelunking that cavern.
As for the Nazi thing, I'm Jewish, and I live with a grandfather who escaped Austria with only the clothes on his back. The rest of his family wasn't so lucky. So you're probably thinking, "Then why the fuck would you make light of Nazis?" Well, maybe because I can separate facetiousness from reality.
So again, another characterization cast upon me by those quick to draw their weapons.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:36 AM on March 11, 2006
I'm against the askme poster on general principle -- a multi-paragraph "more inside" that's basically unreadable. but yeah, reading the comments there, they were mostly shit. shit answers for an overlong question
You Americans need to learn about unionism, and quick.
unions are unAmerican, you commie
posted by matteo at 6:38 AM on March 11, 2006
You Americans need to learn about unionism, and quick.
unions are unAmerican, you commie
posted by matteo at 6:38 AM on March 11, 2006
Perhaps I'm being too quick, objecting to the cavalier use of "Nazi" -- but although I missed what's always sounded like one of the sillier episodes of "Seinfeld" I was at Auschwitz five months ago, wandering around the ruins of the Birkenau extermination camp. Tends to clarify your cultural parameters.
posted by Rash at 6:53 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by Rash at 6:53 AM on March 11, 2006
"Please do not use AskMe comments as a forum for your moral outrage."
I'll see if we can squeeze this into the faq somewhere. i agree AskMe seems to be getting worse and I don't know if it's the JudgeMe types of questions we've been getting, the male answer syndrome problem [I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..." in every thread or "This is a stupid question"], or the fact that people like to chat about the topic a lot and that derails some things. I also think we've been seeing new posters who don't realize that some topic that seems straightforward to them [circumcision!?] is going to bring out a lot of strong feelings on both sides. And, we've seen some people using AskMe as a spillover place to debate current events topics and bitch about politics which often doesn't go well.
When I remove more than one throwaway comment or two, I'll post a note in-thread and/or email the posters involved, especially if they're new, or we're having a repeating problem. Sometimes people ignore these. I'm never sure what to do at that point.
That said, using the word Nazi in a question about restaurants was a bad choice. This does not mean that the poster deserved any vitriol in-thread for it, but there is a sense in which you'll get answers in the style in which you ask questions [the circumcision thread had this problem as well].
Lastly, we try very very hard not to ever remove a comment by the original poster, but sometimes there will be pissing-matches in thread in AskMe where the poster and another commenter or two go at it and I've usually erred on the side of leaving those comments in so that the poster can have their say and this may have been a mistake.
AskMe really has been filling up with more and more JudgeMe type answers and this may be the result of me trying to be more permissive and letting people's comments stay, or flat out not wanting to deal with more angry email when I've removed someone's comments. I also haven't seen as many flags of midrange off-topic answers. I'll try to do a little mid-course correction and see if that helps, and if other people have some ideas on how to make this go better, I'm all ears.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:36 AM on March 11, 2006
I'll see if we can squeeze this into the faq somewhere. i agree AskMe seems to be getting worse and I don't know if it's the JudgeMe types of questions we've been getting, the male answer syndrome problem [I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..." in every thread or "This is a stupid question"], or the fact that people like to chat about the topic a lot and that derails some things. I also think we've been seeing new posters who don't realize that some topic that seems straightforward to them [circumcision!?] is going to bring out a lot of strong feelings on both sides. And, we've seen some people using AskMe as a spillover place to debate current events topics and bitch about politics which often doesn't go well.
When I remove more than one throwaway comment or two, I'll post a note in-thread and/or email the posters involved, especially if they're new, or we're having a repeating problem. Sometimes people ignore these. I'm never sure what to do at that point.
That said, using the word Nazi in a question about restaurants was a bad choice. This does not mean that the poster deserved any vitriol in-thread for it, but there is a sense in which you'll get answers in the style in which you ask questions [the circumcision thread had this problem as well].
Lastly, we try very very hard not to ever remove a comment by the original poster, but sometimes there will be pissing-matches in thread in AskMe where the poster and another commenter or two go at it and I've usually erred on the side of leaving those comments in so that the poster can have their say and this may have been a mistake.
AskMe really has been filling up with more and more JudgeMe type answers and this may be the result of me trying to be more permissive and letting people's comments stay, or flat out not wanting to deal with more angry email when I've removed someone's comments. I also haven't seen as many flags of midrange off-topic answers. I'll try to do a little mid-course correction and see if that helps, and if other people have some ideas on how to make this go better, I'm all ears.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:36 AM on March 11, 2006
The Australia comment adds information, and so it's useful. It's not terribly useful, because moving to Australia is a rather large undertaking, but it does point out that there are other compensation systems for waiters than the American system.
These things are touchy. Many threads about health insurance in the US have a lot of "move to Canada/UK" comments in them that do nothing to help someone figure out how to get COBRA to cover them between jobs. This often touches off a debate about relative tax levels and suddenly the original poster is not getting their question answered. It's like if all the questions about weight loss were answered by amputee fans. Sure, it works, but....
I look at these on a case by case basis and the Australia post in this thread was okay, but in a general sense, just telling someone to make a radical change to their life if they're looking for something fairly specific does not always fall into the "helpful" category.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on March 11, 2006
These things are touchy. Many threads about health insurance in the US have a lot of "move to Canada/UK" comments in them that do nothing to help someone figure out how to get COBRA to cover them between jobs. This often touches off a debate about relative tax levels and suddenly the original poster is not getting their question answered. It's like if all the questions about weight loss were answered by amputee fans. Sure, it works, but....
I look at these on a case by case basis and the Australia post in this thread was okay, but in a general sense, just telling someone to make a radical change to their life if they're looking for something fairly specific does not always fall into the "helpful" category.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on March 11, 2006
the male answer syndrome
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's? Seriously -- it's an honest question. No snarkiness intended or inferred.
I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..."
Another honest question -- why is this a bad thing? I'd rather have 50 wild-ass guesses to an obscure question than only a handful of "I'm certain the answer is X," some of which may be flat wrong.
posted by frogan at 8:33 AM on March 11, 2006
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's? Seriously -- it's an honest question. No snarkiness intended or inferred.
I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..."
Another honest question -- why is this a bad thing? I'd rather have 50 wild-ass guesses to an obscure question than only a handful of "I'm certain the answer is X," some of which may be flat wrong.
posted by frogan at 8:33 AM on March 11, 2006
frogan: "the male answer syndrome
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's? Seriously -- it's an honest question. "
I don't know, but I think she explained it in her comment.
posted by kcm at 9:03 AM on March 11, 2006
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's? Seriously -- it's an honest question. "
I don't know, but I think she explained it in her comment.
posted by kcm at 9:03 AM on March 11, 2006
I don't think we should necessarily stay completely out of AskMe threads where we have a comment that doesn't directly answer the question asked. We can still contribute alternate viewpoints and additional ideas if we're thoughtful and helpful.
Just want to highlight this in case anyone missed it. It should be murmured into the ear of every would-be AskMe answerer.
I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..." in every thread
*applauds wildly*
Another honest question -- why is this a bad thing?
I really find it hard to believe you can't figure this out. People want answers, not wild-ass guesses. It's especially annoying when some idiot presents a superficially plausible, well-worded guess that gets flagged as "best answer." If you don't know, or seriously think your guess is well founded, keep it to yourself.
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's?
It is a commonly observed phenomenon that far more men than women seem to feel the need to come up with "answers" to perceived problems or questions. It's a cliche that a woman will respond to a complaint with sympathy while a man will suggest a solution, but there's a reason things become cliches. I've noticed this tendency in myself and fight it when it's inappropriate.
posted by languagehat at 9:19 AM on March 11, 2006
Just want to highlight this in case anyone missed it. It should be murmured into the ear of every would-be AskMe answerer.
I've emailed a few posters specifically to stop posting "I don't know but my guess is X..." in every thread
*applauds wildly*
Another honest question -- why is this a bad thing?
I really find it hard to believe you can't figure this out. People want answers, not wild-ass guesses. It's especially annoying when some idiot presents a superficially plausible, well-worded guess that gets flagged as "best answer." If you don't know, or seriously think your guess is well founded, keep it to yourself.
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's?
It is a commonly observed phenomenon that far more men than women seem to feel the need to come up with "answers" to perceived problems or questions. It's a cliche that a woman will respond to a complaint with sympathy while a man will suggest a solution, but there's a reason things become cliches. I've noticed this tendency in myself and fight it when it's inappropriate.
posted by languagehat at 9:19 AM on March 11, 2006
What is the male answer syndrome and how does it differ from a female's? Seriously -- it's an honest question. No sneakiness intended or inferred.
I donno, some women may be afflicted with it, but it's still very much a stereotypical guy thing. I'm very careful to always add "I think" or "I believe" when I make statements I'm not certain about, but most people aren't.
posted by delmoi at 9:28 AM on March 11, 2006
I donno, some women may be afflicted with it, but it's still very much a stereotypical guy thing. I'm very careful to always add "I think" or "I believe" when I make statements I'm not certain about, but most people aren't.
posted by delmoi at 9:28 AM on March 11, 2006
the male answer syndrome
I called it this because that's how it's been referred to in past MeTa threads, basically just sort of a compulsion to contribute to threads where your particular input doesn't really add anything to the discussion. There are some threads where getting input from a lot of different perspectives is really helpful and some where people who don't know the answer should probably stay out of them, even if they're going to couch their answer in "this is just what I think..." although that's helpful. I agree, women do it too, but in far fewer numbers on MeFi. This may or may not have to do with the fact that women exist in far fewer numbers here in the first place.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:22 AM on March 11, 2006
I called it this because that's how it's been referred to in past MeTa threads, basically just sort of a compulsion to contribute to threads where your particular input doesn't really add anything to the discussion. There are some threads where getting input from a lot of different perspectives is really helpful and some where people who don't know the answer should probably stay out of them, even if they're going to couch their answer in "this is just what I think..." although that's helpful. I agree, women do it too, but in far fewer numbers on MeFi. This may or may not have to do with the fact that women exist in far fewer numbers here in the first place.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:22 AM on March 11, 2006
the male answer syndrome
I'm sure Larry Summers has a theory about that, too
:)
posted by matteo at 10:34 AM on March 11, 2006
I'm sure Larry Summers has a theory about that, too
:)
posted by matteo at 10:34 AM on March 11, 2006
This may or may not have to do with the fact that women exist in far fewer numbers here in the first place.
They do? I had the impression that it was closer to evenly split.
posted by evariste at 11:41 AM on March 11, 2006
They do? I had the impression that it was closer to evenly split.
posted by evariste at 11:41 AM on March 11, 2006
I really find it hard to believe you can't figure this out.
I find it really hard to believe you missed the context here.
People want answers, not wild-ass guesses.
If the question is 2 + 2, the clear answer is warranted. If the question is "what's that weird movie with that guy that said that one thing," I'll take 50 guesses over stone-cold silence, thanksverymuch.
I can't count the number of times the answer pops out because an educated guess jogs someone else's memory. So if that's going to be out-of-bounds, then, prepare for an empty AskMe that's ultimately not very useful.
posted by frogan at 12:13 PM on March 11, 2006
I find it really hard to believe you missed the context here.
People want answers, not wild-ass guesses.
If the question is 2 + 2, the clear answer is warranted. If the question is "what's that weird movie with that guy that said that one thing," I'll take 50 guesses over stone-cold silence, thanksverymuch.
I can't count the number of times the answer pops out because an educated guess jogs someone else's memory. So if that's going to be out-of-bounds, then, prepare for an empty AskMe that's ultimately not very useful.
posted by frogan at 12:13 PM on March 11, 2006
Pony request: Can we have a "JudgeMe" site so that those of us who don't want to read a million "How weird am I?" questions, and a billion "No, no, you're approaching this all wrong, you need counseling/to be more like me" and "Just tellin' it like it is because you need to hear it" answers. Kind of like a MetaFilter isitnormal, but with sermons instead of the Yes/No check box. I would suggest red text on black to help new posters get in the mood.
Then AskMe can get back to being about growing out eyelashes, making sparks, and other stuff I never knew I needed to know so badly.
And seriously Delmoi, is it "Dell-Mwah", "Dell-Moy", or something else?
posted by crabintheocean at 11:55 PM on March 11, 2006
Then AskMe can get back to being about growing out eyelashes, making sparks, and other stuff I never knew I needed to know so badly.
And seriously Delmoi, is it "Dell-Mwah", "Dell-Moy", or something else?
posted by crabintheocean at 11:55 PM on March 11, 2006
But then again, I'd have missed out on this thread.
posted by crabintheocean at 12:18 AM on March 12, 2006
posted by crabintheocean at 12:18 AM on March 12, 2006
I say "dell-mwah".
posted by exlotuseater at 2:55 AM on March 12, 2006
posted by exlotuseater at 2:55 AM on March 12, 2006
I say male answer syndrome.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:24 AM on March 12, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:24 AM on March 12, 2006
"If the question is "what's that weird movie with that guy that said that one thing," I'll take 50 guesses over stone-cold silence, thanksverymuch."
Surely that sort of thing doesn't fall in the "a compulsion to contribute to threads where your particular input doesn't really add anything to the discussion" category then?
posted by hugsnkisses at 4:46 PM on March 12, 2006
Surely that sort of thing doesn't fall in the "a compulsion to contribute to threads where your particular input doesn't really add anything to the discussion" category then?
posted by hugsnkisses at 4:46 PM on March 12, 2006
I pronounce it "del-moy" although I am so sick of this name.
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on March 12, 2006
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on March 12, 2006
!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:40 AM on March 13, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:40 AM on March 13, 2006
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posted by DrJohnEvans at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2006