September 11th Thread April 5, 2006 9:15 AM Subscribe
Thought you guys might be interested to know I just taught Sept 11 to my american history class by reading the first 60 or so comments from this thread. It was a near perfect capturing of that day for those too young to really understand what was going on
I still gives me chills to go read the start of that thread. Before anyone really knew what was happening but everyone was in shock.
posted by raedyn at 9:30 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by raedyn at 9:30 AM on April 5, 2006
I was living in NY at the time.
I had not yet discovered MetaFilter.
I just read that thread for the first time.
My coworker just said to me: "Hey, dersins, why are you crying."
I had no answer for her.
posted by dersins at 9:35 AM on April 5, 2006
I had not yet discovered MetaFilter.
I just read that thread for the first time.
My coworker just said to me: "Hey, dersins, why are you crying."
I had no answer for her.
posted by dersins at 9:35 AM on April 5, 2006
Every 3-4 months someone mentions the thread and I go back to look at it, and my own responses, and I'm blown away. That was a dark day I'll never forget.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:38 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:38 AM on April 5, 2006
Dec. 7th
posted by Dreamghost at 9:52 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by Dreamghost at 9:52 AM on April 5, 2006
So much for living in infamy, effing FDR. (Effing whippersnappers.)
posted by crunchland at 9:55 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by crunchland at 9:55 AM on April 5, 2006
I can't read more than ten comments in that thread. I'm impressed you could get through sixty out loud to a group of students. Keep doing what you're doing, trinarian: teach from real life, not out of the book.
posted by Plutor at 9:57 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by Plutor at 9:57 AM on April 5, 2006
Does anybody even know (without consulting a calander) when Pearl Harbor Day is?
Yes. And it happened 40 years before I was born. But asking that question on MeFi is going to produce a much different result from asking a random selection of US citizens, I'd guess.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:07 AM on April 5, 2006
Yes. And it happened 40 years before I was born. But asking that question on MeFi is going to produce a much different result from asking a random selection of US citizens, I'd guess.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:07 AM on April 5, 2006
teach from real life
the Internet is not real life
having said that, it's an interesting read, it's free-form like a chat log
posted by matteo at 10:07 AM on April 5, 2006
the Internet is not real life
having said that, it's an interesting read, it's free-form like a chat log
posted by matteo at 10:07 AM on April 5, 2006
How will anyone remember what day 9/11 happened on?
Seriously though, that thread was incredible. I was just a lurker then, that really was a turning point for MeFi. It set it as the discussion community and away from becoming another Fark.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:13 AM on April 5, 2006
Seriously though, that thread was incredible. I was just a lurker then, that really was a turning point for MeFi. It set it as the discussion community and away from becoming another Fark.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:13 AM on April 5, 2006
The Internet is as much real life as books and music and stories and puppetshows are.
posted by cortex at 10:14 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 10:14 AM on April 5, 2006
Om...
posted by ludwig_van at 10:18 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 10:18 AM on April 5, 2006
Before that, it was HEY LOOK AT THIS WACKY/TACKY/SITE!!!!11, but then, it changed to eyewitness accounts on that day, and people realized what a community blog could do.
That's revisionist history. You're simply wrong. There was plenty of 'real' discussion on mefi before sept. 11. Today metafilter, though larger, is much like it has always been. As far as what a community could 'do', the kaycee nicole thread is a much better example.
I wonder if 9-11 will always be the big deal that it is now, or if a couple generations from now, it will be just like Pearl Harbor Day.
Pearl Harbor isn't a big deal? WTF? How many people on metafilter remember the day it happened? That's the difference.
Does anybody even know (without consulting a calander) when Pearl Harbor Day is?
I'm surprised when people don't know what day it is.
posted by justgary at 10:20 AM on April 5, 2006
That's revisionist history. You're simply wrong. There was plenty of 'real' discussion on mefi before sept. 11. Today metafilter, though larger, is much like it has always been. As far as what a community could 'do', the kaycee nicole thread is a much better example.
I wonder if 9-11 will always be the big deal that it is now, or if a couple generations from now, it will be just like Pearl Harbor Day.
Pearl Harbor isn't a big deal? WTF? How many people on metafilter remember the day it happened? That's the difference.
Does anybody even know (without consulting a calander) when Pearl Harbor Day is?
I'm surprised when people don't know what day it is.
posted by justgary at 10:20 AM on April 5, 2006
the Internet is not real life
Really? I was under the impression that I was having real conversations with real people here. Maybe that explains why you're so abrasive lately.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:20 AM on April 5, 2006
Really? I was under the impression that I was having real conversations with real people here. Maybe that explains why you're so abrasive lately.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:20 AM on April 5, 2006
Don't worry, Afroblanco. By questioning the day of the Pearl Harbor attack, you simply revealed more about yourself than you probably meant to. It has nothing to do with how emotionally charged 9/11 is.
posted by crunchland at 10:27 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by crunchland at 10:27 AM on April 5, 2006
Someone posted his phone number in that thread...maybe it's about time to remove it, for his sake?
posted by apple scruff at 10:29 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by apple scruff at 10:29 AM on April 5, 2006
Given that this is such an emotionally charged subject, I suppose my comment was just begging for a misconstruel.
I wasn't offended. I was just honestly surprised that, if what you're saying is true, people don't know understand the significance (and date) of the attack on pearl harbor.
posted by justgary at 10:30 AM on April 5, 2006
I wasn't offended. I was just honestly surprised that, if what you're saying is true, people don't know understand the significance (and date) of the attack on pearl harbor.
posted by justgary at 10:30 AM on April 5, 2006
For what it's worth, I consider the attack on Pearl Harbor a huge, huge thing, but can't remember the date. It did happen 34 years before I was born. A lot of folks are bad with dates, you know.
posted by cortex at 10:34 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 10:34 AM on April 5, 2006
"How will anyone remember what day 9/11 happened on?"
Tuesday, right?
posted by mullacc at 10:37 AM on April 5, 2006
Tuesday, right?
posted by mullacc at 10:37 AM on April 5, 2006
What did the students do for their part in this?
Provided snark.
posted by yerfatma at 10:38 AM on April 5, 2006
Provided snark.
posted by yerfatma at 10:38 AM on April 5, 2006
I'm bad with dates too. I think it's FDR's speech that's been drilled into my head from hearing it so much that keeps me from forgetting.
posted by justgary at 10:39 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by justgary at 10:39 AM on April 5, 2006
What did the students do for their part in this?
They had a lot of questions and brought out their own memories to compare it to the real chronology. They were mostly interested in conspiracy theories and wanting to get revenge.
the internet is not the real world.
It's a lot more real than a typical lecture, video, or textbook reading.
posted by trinarian at 10:42 AM on April 5, 2006
They had a lot of questions and brought out their own memories to compare it to the real chronology. They were mostly interested in conspiracy theories and wanting to get revenge.
the internet is not the real world.
It's a lot more real than a typical lecture, video, or textbook reading.
posted by trinarian at 10:42 AM on April 5, 2006
Every time I reread this page I'm more and more amazed by how eerily accurate the predictions of what could result from 9/11 were. And my respect for the people here goes up another notch. And I wind up near tears for the rest of the day.
Damn.
posted by ook at 10:43 AM on April 5, 2006
Damn.
posted by ook at 10:43 AM on April 5, 2006
So many names in that thread which aren't seen around here anymore.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:47 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:47 AM on April 5, 2006
and wanting to get revenge
Ah, yes, but revenge on whom?
posted by anastasiav at 10:47 AM on April 5, 2006
Ah, yes, but revenge on whom?
posted by anastasiav at 10:47 AM on April 5, 2006
I was having real conversations with real people here
really? look:
INT. MONJU BOSATSU'S LIVING ROOM -- NIGHT
MONJU BOSATSU and his GUESTS are sitting in MJ's LIVING ROOM after dinner. They are having DRINKS.
THEY set the apartment on fire.
MATHOWIE closes the PARTY.
posted by matteo at 10:49 AM on April 5, 2006
really? look:
INT. MONJU BOSATSU'S LIVING ROOM -- NIGHT
MONJU BOSATSU and his GUESTS are sitting in MJ's LIVING ROOM after dinner. They are having DRINKS.
MONJU
A group of scientists have announced that they have created cloned and genetically modified pigs that make their own omega-3 fatty acids. NPR has more on the story, including an audio report from Joe Palca. There are apparently some naturally occuring pigs with their own omega-3 fatty acids, primarily a Spanish breed called Ibérico. Descended from native Iberian wild boar, black-footed Ibérico hogs are raised in specially maintained oak forests, and feed primarily on acorns. Until last September, however, no Spanish producer had been approved to export Ibérico products to the United States, and consumers may have to wait a few more months before they can get their hands on the tasty pork. As the ham is sure to be in short supply, you can put down a $199 deposit now for a ham that will carry a final price tag of as much as $1000. If you're unable to wait for—or afford—the Spanish version, you can treat yourself now to the Bacon of the Month Club, which serves up a different artisanal bacon each month. For more on raising hogs, read James Buchan's account in the London Review of Books. And don't forget the bacon blogs: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5].
ROUGH ASHLAR
When cows eat grass they have a 3:1 Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio. And on the corn diet (per the feed lot environment) is it 15:1.
So to hear of pigs being able to be more Omega 3 (and what about Omega 9?), I can believe that. Wonder what diet does for 'em?
(Back to my Flax)
HOMUNCULUS
Quick, patent it!
BREATH
I signed my mom up for the Bacon of the Month club for Christmas. She loves it. It's expensive, but the bacon is really really good from what I hear. Deliciously heart-stopping: Bacon on a Hot Dog.
I want this motherfucking bacon off the motherfucking hot dog!
A GUEST
Double Post!
DIOS
You don't like this party, skip it! Opportunistic bitches! I went to Law School! Monju, too! Now, I have this great joke about fucking a woman in a wheelchair.
MATTEO
Fascist!
ANOTHER GUEST
Take it to MetaTalk asshole!
GREEK CHORUS
THERE ARE MOTHERFUCKIN' SNAKES IN THIS MOTHERFUCKIN' LIVING ROOM!
THE T.V. SET
("DEADWOOD" is blasting)
COCKSUCKAH!
THEY set the apartment on fire.
MATHOWIE closes the PARTY.
posted by matteo at 10:49 AM on April 5, 2006
Sweet. When can you guys come over?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:51 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:51 AM on April 5, 2006
Here's a question: is there widespread celebrating in the West Bank?
posted by ParisParamus at 11:30 AM EST on September 11 [!]
So he's always been kind of a dick, then.
posted by empath at 10:53 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by ParisParamus at 11:30 AM EST on September 11 [!]
So he's always been kind of a dick, then.
posted by empath at 10:53 AM on April 5, 2006
I wasn't offended. I was just honestly surprised that, if what you're saying is true, people don't know understand the significance (and date) of the attack on pearl harbor - justgary
To be fair, I think most North Americans (at least, I couldn't speak for our friends on other continents) understand the significance of the event, but as fewer and fewer people are old enough to have been there, it's natural for the exact date to fade from immediate memory.
(data point: I know what happened that day, and understand its significance to WWII, but I did not know the exact date until I looked it up. It was 40 years before I was born, and I'm not American. Forgive me.)
posted by raedyn at 10:53 AM on April 5, 2006
To be fair, I think most North Americans (at least, I couldn't speak for our friends on other continents) understand the significance of the event, but as fewer and fewer people are old enough to have been there, it's natural for the exact date to fade from immediate memory.
(data point: I know what happened that day, and understand its significance to WWII, but I did not know the exact date until I looked it up. It was 40 years before I was born, and I'm not American. Forgive me.)
posted by raedyn at 10:53 AM on April 5, 2006
Pearl Harbor was a military attack on a military target. As surprising and treasonous as it was, it is a piece of military history, as is the invasion of Poland, or the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. It was an act of war. And there is plenty of treasonous acts of war in history, this one just happens to be the worst of them (for America, at least). It was a mindset changing event for America (killed isolationism), but its effect on the mindset of the rest of the world was very limited. As a non-American, I am hardly aware of PH. I'd say I only knew of it after my 18 years, and around here it is, as I said, just a piece of military history.
9/11 was an attack on thousands of innocent civilians. It was an act of barbarism, unprecedented (precedented in intention, but not in scale). It was felt all around the world, and changed it all. It was a mindset changing event for everyone. It is the event defining the paranoid mindset of the 21st century, and I believe it will be remembered as such, just as WWI is seen as the beginning of the 20th century (the militaristic century), and the storming of the Bastille is seen as shaping the 19th century (the century of liberal revolutions and ascension of the bourgeois)
posted by qvantamon at 10:55 AM on April 5, 2006
9/11 was an attack on thousands of innocent civilians. It was an act of barbarism, unprecedented (precedented in intention, but not in scale). It was felt all around the world, and changed it all. It was a mindset changing event for everyone. It is the event defining the paranoid mindset of the 21st century, and I believe it will be remembered as such, just as WWI is seen as the beginning of the 20th century (the militaristic century), and the storming of the Bastille is seen as shaping the 19th century (the century of liberal revolutions and ascension of the bourgeois)
posted by qvantamon at 10:55 AM on April 5, 2006
They say time is supposed to heal wounds.
Yeah. This wound's still being inflicted, though.
posted by ook at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
Yeah. This wound's still being inflicted, though.
posted by ook at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
DIOS
You don't like this party, skip it! Opportunistic bitches! I went to Law School! Monju, too! Now, I have this great joke about fucking a woman in a wheelchair.
My understanding is that she wasn't in the wheelchair when dios nailed her. She was up against a tree. Just sayin'.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
You don't like this party, skip it! Opportunistic bitches! I went to Law School! Monju, too! Now, I have this great joke about fucking a woman in a wheelchair.
My understanding is that she wasn't in the wheelchair when dios nailed her. She was up against a tree. Just sayin'.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
Meh, "Pfft. You don't know the date?" indignation smacks of "You weren't there, man!" snobbery, as though it invalidates whatever feelings a person may have.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:56 AM on April 5, 2006
I was having real conversations with real people here
really? look:
I've seen real-life community meetings that go like that - especially when discussing something controversial that affects everyone in the neighborhood. So, perhaps a living room is not the best real-life analogy?
matteo, I respect everything you do here at metafilter but...well, seriously, what is your problem?
posted by vacapinta at 10:58 AM on April 5, 2006
really? look:
I've seen real-life community meetings that go like that - especially when discussing something controversial that affects everyone in the neighborhood. So, perhaps a living room is not the best real-life analogy?
matteo, I respect everything you do here at metafilter but...well, seriously, what is your problem?
posted by vacapinta at 10:58 AM on April 5, 2006
...the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
Oh, finally. Their last album was atrocious.
posted by Zozo at 11:01 AM on April 5, 2006
Oh, finally. Their last album was atrocious.
posted by Zozo at 11:01 AM on April 5, 2006
Meh, "Pfft. You don't know the date?" indignation smacks of "You weren't there, man!" snobbery
And sometimes it just means: "really, you don't know the date? I'm surprised. I thought most people did. I stand corrected."
posted by justgary at 11:02 AM on April 5, 2006
And sometimes it just means: "really, you don't know the date? I'm surprised. I thought most people did. I stand corrected."
posted by justgary at 11:02 AM on April 5, 2006
I still like Dios's joke.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:04 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:04 AM on April 5, 2006
As for the thread: At the time it happened, I was living in a cynic, heavily anti-american environment (university). I had few contact with the human side of it, all that I'd seen was the historical-political fact. It took two years for the tragedy to really kick in for me, and since then, I think I feel it a little more everytime it is remembered. And yet, reading that thread, I felt how far I am from understanding it in full. That's an example of MetaFilter BEING the best of the web instead of pointing to it.
posted by qvantamon at 11:09 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 11:09 AM on April 5, 2006
empath: So [ParisParamus has] always been kind of a dick, then.
In fairness, keep reading the thread:
If anyone needs to make a phone call in NYC to tell someone they're ok, you can e-mail me (askparisparamus@aol.com) I seem to have local phone service within NYC
posted by ParisParamus at 12:17 PM EST on September 11 [!]
posted by brain_drain at 11:17 AM on April 5, 2006
In fairness, keep reading the thread:
If anyone needs to make a phone call in NYC to tell someone they're ok, you can e-mail me (askparisparamus@aol.com) I seem to have local phone service within NYC
posted by ParisParamus at 12:17 PM EST on September 11 [!]
posted by brain_drain at 11:17 AM on April 5, 2006
I actually pointed ParisParamus out in class (particularly his friend vs enemy post) as being what emerged as the most popular view. In all fairness, he was right. There was celebration in the West Bank. His asking didn't will it into being...
posted by trinarian at 11:28 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by trinarian at 11:28 AM on April 5, 2006
he just wanted to tell people that the Palestinians did it
;)
posted by matteo at 11:28 AM on April 5, 2006
;)
posted by matteo at 11:28 AM on April 5, 2006
I would agree that the 9/11 thread was an excellent example of MeFi being the best of the web. I would say, however, that it typically is, and that such a quality is often overlooked here in our search for good content everywhere MeFi links. This community is itself alive. The site linking us that we call MetaFilter is alive through that. Any more so and the server could qualify as AI. Mathowie is not a dictator with absolute power over the community, but he is not an elected represenative either. I would say he is more like a trusted doctor while this site is the patient.
posted by mystyk at 11:32 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by mystyk at 11:32 AM on April 5, 2006
Sorry. I've been a bit odd today. And re-reading that thread made me cry.
posted by mystyk at 11:33 AM on April 5, 2006
posted by mystyk at 11:33 AM on April 5, 2006
It's.....it's.......ALIIIIIVVVEE!!!!
Quick, grab the children!
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:55 AM on April 5, 2006
Quick, grab the children!
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:55 AM on April 5, 2006
Also, I'm not rereading that thread again because it always makes me weep and I was told in the recent thread about the United 93 movie trailer that I have no right to get upset at the memory because I wasn't in NYC that day. Wouldn't want any of the complete dicks in that thread to see me cry and think I was putting it on for attention or anything.
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:01 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:01 PM on April 5, 2006
How will anyone remember what day 9/11 happened on?
A few years ago -- literally, just three years ago -- I had fallen upon hard times and was stuck working the chicken fryer in a convenience store, and September 11 rolled around. A bunch of customers commented on how nervous they were, talking about how they thought "something is gonna happen because of the anniversary," and this 20-year-old chick who worked with me (she came in every day in full nightclub makeup, hair meticulously sprayed, blinged out to the max) asked me what everyone was talking about. I said, "You know, the anniversary of 9/11." She stared at me blankly. "What?" "...Um, you know, 9/11?" She snotted back at me defensively, "I'm not from around here, I'm from Texas, what's 9/11?"
posted by Gator at 12:10 PM on April 5, 2006
A few years ago -- literally, just three years ago -- I had fallen upon hard times and was stuck working the chicken fryer in a convenience store, and September 11 rolled around. A bunch of customers commented on how nervous they were, talking about how they thought "something is gonna happen because of the anniversary," and this 20-year-old chick who worked with me (she came in every day in full nightclub makeup, hair meticulously sprayed, blinged out to the max) asked me what everyone was talking about. I said, "You know, the anniversary of 9/11." She stared at me blankly. "What?" "...Um, you know, 9/11?" She snotted back at me defensively, "I'm not from around here, I'm from Texas, what's 9/11?"
posted by Gator at 12:10 PM on April 5, 2006
Gator, that's amazing. Did she just not recognize the term or had she not heard of what happened that day?
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:23 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:23 PM on April 5, 2006
Did you stick her head in the fryer and hold it down until she stopped struggling?
posted by keswick at 12:26 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by keswick at 12:26 PM on April 5, 2006
It was felt all around the world, and changed it all. It was a mindset changing event for everyone.
That's not really true now and in the greater scheme of things I doubt it will be seen that way. It's already looking more like an anomaly than the start of a pattern.
posted by cillit bang at 12:33 PM on April 5, 2006
That's not really true now and in the greater scheme of things I doubt it will be seen that way. It's already looking more like an anomaly than the start of a pattern.
posted by cillit bang at 12:33 PM on April 5, 2006
She seriously had no idea what had happened. She thought we were all talking about some local historical event that must have occurred before she moved there from Texas. And she wasn't "slow" or anything like that; I have no idea how she managed to avoid hearing about it, except that she was a total airhead who thought of nothing but music, jewelry, and her boyfriends.
No, I neglected to stick her head in the fryer, but she was deeply offended by the open-mouthed "What the fuck is wrong with you?" look that I couldn't avoid giving her.
dios, this actually happened. For reals, yo.
posted by Gator at 12:34 PM on April 5, 2006
No, I neglected to stick her head in the fryer, but she was deeply offended by the open-mouthed "What the fuck is wrong with you?" look that I couldn't avoid giving her.
dios, this actually happened. For reals, yo.
posted by Gator at 12:34 PM on April 5, 2006
lol stoopit Texans
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:38 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:38 PM on April 5, 2006
One finger? I'm having trouble visualizing that gesture, dios. (Unless it's the shocker.) Got a pic?
posted by Gator at 12:56 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Gator at 12:56 PM on April 5, 2006
llhl
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:59 PM on April 5, 2006
dios, you're like some metafilterian Kosh in this thread.
WE ARE ALL DIOS
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2006
WE ARE ALL DIOS
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2006
I remember 9/11, but what's this Fourth of July that people keep talking about?
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:08 PM on April 5, 2006
Pearl Harbor was a military attack on a military target. As surprising and treasonous as it was, it is a piece of military history, as is the invasion of Poland, or the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
How was perl harbor 'treasonous'?
Also, was that thread edited? I thought I posted something in there, and I remember someone saying something like "This is like when a B-52 hit the empire state building" early on before the second plane hit.
posted by delmoi at 1:13 PM on April 5, 2006
How was perl harbor 'treasonous'?
Also, was that thread edited? I thought I posted something in there, and I remember someone saying something like "This is like when a B-52 hit the empire state building" early on before the second plane hit.
posted by delmoi at 1:13 PM on April 5, 2006
Astro: It's also something about explosions. Lots of explosions.
posted by qvantamon at 1:14 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 1:14 PM on April 5, 2006
Obviously it had been:
Mocata, way to turn this around into a "Bush is stupid" thread.
The string "mocata" never appears in the rest of the thread.
posted by delmoi at 1:17 PM on April 5, 2006
Mocata, way to turn this around into a "Bush is stupid" thread.
The string "mocata" never appears in the rest of the thread.
posted by delmoi at 1:17 PM on April 5, 2006
I remember 9/11, but what's this Fourth of July that people keep talking about?
Embarrassing Gator Factoid #64: When I was a wee bairn, aged three or four, I asked my mother when the Fourth of July was.
posted by Gator at 1:20 PM on April 5, 2006
Embarrassing Gator Factoid #64: When I was a wee bairn, aged three or four, I asked my mother when the Fourth of July was.
posted by Gator at 1:20 PM on April 5, 2006
Dios:
It is what it is.
They say time is supposed to heal wounds.
We have to accept that we can't change everything.
Stories are sometimes told for a point.
When we judge others, one finger points back at us.
Lemmie guess what's next...
A penny saved is a penny earned?
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:22 PM on April 5, 2006
It is what it is.
They say time is supposed to heal wounds.
We have to accept that we can't change everything.
Stories are sometimes told for a point.
When we judge others, one finger points back at us.
Lemmie guess what's next...
A penny saved is a penny earned?
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:22 PM on April 5, 2006
I said it better and sooner, shnoz-gobblin. I am afraid you flunk.
posted by cortex at 1:23 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:23 PM on April 5, 2006
delmoi: I was trying to reflect the general POV the latest movie implies. Anyway, a surprise attack with no declaration of war is quite bad (treason is not the word I was looking for, as it generally implies a former ally, but that's the closest I can figure (English is not my primary language). Maybe treachery?)
posted by qvantamon at 1:25 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 1:25 PM on April 5, 2006
I thought about saying it earlier, but then I wasn't sure if just three comments were enough to see the point.
But we probably both flunk for pointing it out.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:27 PM on April 5, 2006
But we probably both flunk for pointing it out.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:27 PM on April 5, 2006
Treachery is better, yes, though even that is a bit romantic when we had been gearing up for the possibility of direct conflict with Japan in the Pacific anyway (as I understand it).
When you call Pearl Harbor "treasonous", you probably set off thoughts of the endless debate as to whether or not FDR (or some subordinate person of authority) knew of the impending attack and purposefully delayed delivery of that information in order to better make an enemy of Japan in the eyes of Americans. (Think also of Churchill, and English towns bombed to protect the secret of Allied codebreaking activities.)
posted by cortex at 1:28 PM on April 5, 2006
When you call Pearl Harbor "treasonous", you probably set off thoughts of the endless debate as to whether or not FDR (or some subordinate person of authority) knew of the impending attack and purposefully delayed delivery of that information in order to better make an enemy of Japan in the eyes of Americans. (Think also of Churchill, and English towns bombed to protect the secret of Allied codebreaking activities.)
posted by cortex at 1:28 PM on April 5, 2006
Ah, but I pointed it out without being necessarily snarky, and I managed a Vorlon reference without being explict about the what I was referencing. According to my sourcebooks (The USENET Reader, The Compeat A.R.K.), that's a decent passing grade.
posted by cortex at 1:31 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:31 PM on April 5, 2006
Also, The Alamo (another event that gained a 'never forget' slogan) although I'm not sure if the Mexicans would properly have been called treacherous or treasonous.
posted by milovoo at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by milovoo at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2006
dios, what the heck are you doing in this thread?
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2006
A rose by a different name is still a rose if it continue to act like one.
posted by dios at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by dios at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2006
UKnowForKids, he is clearly dispensing with the knowledge.
posted by cortex at 1:36 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:36 PM on April 5, 2006
Seriously, dude, what doth these hijinx betoken?
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
I think that last comment was directed at balisong.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
And more to the point, whence came that which is being betoken and can we have some too, please.
posted by cortex at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:37 PM on April 5, 2006
+3 (humorous), cortex.
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:39 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:39 PM on April 5, 2006
You care, shnoz-gobblin. You care deeply. You know the names of all the cats, and of their pilots. And you also know the secret names, the names you called them by at night, when the door was closed and the lights were out and you wished them a good night before closing your eyes and drifting quietly toward dreamland, whereat you, too, were part of the Voltron team.
You care intensely.
posted by cortex at 1:39 PM on April 5, 2006
You care intensely.
posted by cortex at 1:39 PM on April 5, 2006
You shouldn't talk about the secret names like that.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:40 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:40 PM on April 5, 2006
You shouldn't respond unthinkingly to the user instead of the comment. How about we make a deal?
posted by cortex at 1:41 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:41 PM on April 5, 2006
OK, you lay off the secret Voltron names, and I'll not talk about the Voltron users or references.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:43 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 1:43 PM on April 5, 2006
Pretty much everyone in this thread is acting like a fucking asshole.
posted by trey at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by trey at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2006
I seriously just want to know what the hell dios is up to.
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by UKnowForKids at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2006
Do you perceive some hidden plan? Suspect that there are planks being laid in some road to an obfuscated destination? What, exactly, do you suppose he's up to that rules out the possibility that he is just being weird?
posted by cortex at 1:52 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 1:52 PM on April 5, 2006
Dadaism comes to MetaTalk. "Dada, what the fuck is Dios talking about?"
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:02 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:02 PM on April 5, 2006
Lemmie guess what's next...A penny saved is a penny earned?
Mr. Furious: Okay, am I the only one who finds these sayings just a little bit formulaic? "If you want to push something down, you have to pull it up. If you want to go left, you have to go right." It's...
The Sphinx: Your temper is very quick, my friend. But until you learn to master your rage...
Mr. Furious: ...your rage will become your master? That's what you were going to say. Right? Right?
The Sphinx: Not necessarily.
posted by Gator at 2:04 PM on April 5, 2006
Mr. Furious: Okay, am I the only one who finds these sayings just a little bit formulaic? "If you want to push something down, you have to pull it up. If you want to go left, you have to go right." It's...
The Sphinx: Your temper is very quick, my friend. But until you learn to master your rage...
Mr. Furious: ...your rage will become your master? That's what you were going to say. Right? Right?
The Sphinx: Not necessarily.
posted by Gator at 2:04 PM on April 5, 2006
When he tells us that a stitch in nine saves time, the Elder Symbols will be completed.
posted by 235w103 at 2:07 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by 235w103 at 2:07 PM on April 5, 2006
At least they're not blinking.
posted by UKnowForKids at 2:09 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by UKnowForKids at 2:09 PM on April 5, 2006
>>Thought you guys might be interested to know I just taught Sept 11 to my american history class by reading the first 60 or so comments from this thread. It was a near perfect capturing of that day for those too young to really understand what was going on
Let's just thank God that you don't teach English.
posted by naxosaxur at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2006
Let's just thank God that you don't teach English.
posted by naxosaxur at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2006
dios, what the heck are you doing in this thread?
He's quoting SCIENCE!!!1!
posted by antifreez_ at 2:14 PM on April 5, 2006
He's quoting SCIENCE!!!1!
posted by antifreez_ at 2:14 PM on April 5, 2006
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards,
It makes them soggy and hard to light.
Do not throw your butts in the urinal,
For they are subtle, and swift to anger.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 2:15 PM on April 5, 2006
It makes them soggy and hard to light.
Do not throw your butts in the urinal,
For they are subtle, and swift to anger.
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 2:15 PM on April 5, 2006
I can't read more than ten comments in that thread.
i'm so sick of remarks like that. "i can't read more than ten comments... it's too soon for a movie... i'm so fucking traumatized by reality someone euthanize me quick!"
bah.
posted by quonsar at 2:29 PM on April 5, 2006
i'm so sick of remarks like that. "i can't read more than ten comments... it's too soon for a movie... i'm so fucking traumatized by reality someone euthanize me quick!"
bah.
posted by quonsar at 2:29 PM on April 5, 2006
I can't even understand this thread anymore... uh... but um, it was pretty bizarre to read the top of the 9/11 thread. I wasn't on Mefi then, but it's amazingly vivid to read all that.
I still don't get the revenge thing, but, oh well.
Soon I will be dios too.
posted by blacklite at 2:30 PM on April 5, 2006
I still don't get the revenge thing, but, oh well.
Soon I will be dios too.
posted by blacklite at 2:30 PM on April 5, 2006
Yer sooo cooolll!!!!1`~@
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:31 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:31 PM on April 5, 2006
Can we get back to the point at hand? This has become one hell of a derail, and I don't particularly give a shit what dios is doing.
trinarian, what you are doing is excellent. There is an old phrase, "History is written by the winners." Now, that may look like a setup for trying to point out a conspiracy theory, but it's not meant to be. All history gets distilled into the forms that eventually appear in books. As it happens, the real story of that history gets covered up. Further revisions are done with each generation and each reprint, and major life-changing events sometimes find themselves with no more than a few paragraphs, and maybe less than that (How much do you see in the average American school history text about the Boston Tea Party?). What you have done is provided a very complete and detailed snapshot of that day's events to young minds. They can not only read what happened, but see the reactions as if they were there. They get a view of the emotions that carried the day in a way no textbook could hope to convey. This gives them a better understanding of the history, and better prepares them for critical analysis of the world around them. I commend you.
posted by mystyk at 2:40 PM on April 5, 2006
trinarian, what you are doing is excellent. There is an old phrase, "History is written by the winners." Now, that may look like a setup for trying to point out a conspiracy theory, but it's not meant to be. All history gets distilled into the forms that eventually appear in books. As it happens, the real story of that history gets covered up. Further revisions are done with each generation and each reprint, and major life-changing events sometimes find themselves with no more than a few paragraphs, and maybe less than that (How much do you see in the average American school history text about the Boston Tea Party?). What you have done is provided a very complete and detailed snapshot of that day's events to young minds. They can not only read what happened, but see the reactions as if they were there. They get a view of the emotions that carried the day in a way no textbook could hope to convey. This gives them a better understanding of the history, and better prepares them for critical analysis of the world around them. I commend you.
posted by mystyk at 2:40 PM on April 5, 2006
One hundred years from now, when kids are taught about the fall of the Berlin Wall, they'll ask "where's the Metafilter thread about that?"
posted by qvantamon at 2:50 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 2:50 PM on April 5, 2006
How much do you see in the average American school history text about the Boston Tea Party?
Just as revealing as teaching from the 9/11 MetaFilter thread, so to is it to read 'first-person' accounts of folks like George Hewes who participated in the Boston Tea Party and recorded his impressions of the event.
BTW -- I enjoy the EyeWitness to History website -- "History through the lives of those who lived it."
posted by ericb at 2:59 PM on April 5, 2006
Just as revealing as teaching from the 9/11 MetaFilter thread, so to is it to read 'first-person' accounts of folks like George Hewes who participated in the Boston Tea Party and recorded his impressions of the event.
BTW -- I enjoy the EyeWitness to History website -- "History through the lives of those who lived it."
posted by ericb at 2:59 PM on April 5, 2006
You know, I was at a meetup in Feb. and someone was talking about how that was the thread that started real discussion on MeFi. Before that, it was HEY LOOK AT THIS WACKY/TACKY/SITE!!!!11, but then, it changed to eyewitness accounts on that day, and people realized what a community blog could do.
Nice fairy tale, but complete bullshit. It wasn't long after that conversation here started to take a nosedive in quality, I reckons.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:41 PM on April 5, 2006
Nice fairy tale, but complete bullshit. It wasn't long after that conversation here started to take a nosedive in quality, I reckons.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:41 PM on April 5, 2006
Stav, its just somthing I heard. Dont kill the messenger.
posted by wheelieman at 4:24 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by wheelieman at 4:24 PM on April 5, 2006
Aye, Stavros speaks truth. For an example, see thread number 10000, which was posted on September 10, 2001, almost exactly 24 hours before the 9/11 thread. Can you imagine that thread being posted today without four hundred and seventy-leven snarky cracks, everybody competing to show how much funnier their comment -- about nothing in particular except how wonderful it is to be so amusing -- is than the one below? People actually read the goddam link and discussed it.
Just in case you think you can imagine it, here're 20000, 30000, 40000, and 50000. See any difference? See a trend?
/grouchy
Oh, and please stop using FPP instead of 'post'. kthxbye.
posted by gleuschk at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2006
Just in case you think you can imagine it, here're 20000, 30000, 40000, and 50000. See any difference? See a trend?
/grouchy
Oh, and please stop using FPP instead of 'post'. kthxbye.
posted by gleuschk at 4:30 PM on April 5, 2006
*kills wheelieman*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:49 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:49 PM on April 5, 2006
Also, trinarian, I want you to take a voice recorder into your class, and have the students read the comments in this thread out loud (they'll have to choose the username whose comments they want to read). It'll be like a Daily Show Great Moments in Punditry As Read By Children, be a learning experience for them to show what doofi 'adults' can be, and cortex can remix it into a song or something, and then everybody wins!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:57 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:57 PM on April 5, 2006
Man. Someone really needs to do a series of short plays staged from Metafilter threads. Someone here must be an exuberant drama student, right?
posted by cortex at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by cortex at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2006
Well, as noted on the blue, The Simpsons have been floundering these past couple of years. Maybe once they're done with their experiment, they can start mining metafilter for comedy gold.
If nothing else, we'll see lots more of Comic Book Guy and the Mrs. Reverend Lovejoy.
posted by crunchland at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006
If nothing else, we'll see lots more of Comic Book Guy and the Mrs. Reverend Lovejoy.
posted by crunchland at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006
And Ralph can play quonsar.
posted by crunchland at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by crunchland at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006
Every time I reread this page, here, my respect for the people which was so bolstered by the 9/11 page drops back down to its normal level.
posted by ook at 5:27 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by ook at 5:27 PM on April 5, 2006
*soul flies up from wheelie's body* SEE YOU ON FARK SUCKERS!!!!
posted by wheelieman at 5:34 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by wheelieman at 5:34 PM on April 5, 2006
Yeah, this is pretty depressing. But thanks for making the post, trinarian. Your students are lucky.
posted by languagehat at 5:41 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by languagehat at 5:41 PM on April 5, 2006
"Oh, and please stop using FPP instead of 'post'. kthxbye"
Oh, and please stop using 'kthxbye' instead of 'kthxbi'. tia
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:45 PM on April 5, 2006
Oh, and please stop using 'kthxbye' instead of 'kthxbi'. tia
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:45 PM on April 5, 2006
"Every time I reread this page, here, my respect for the people which was so bolstered by the 9/11 page drops back down to its normal level."
And balance is once again restored to the universe.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:47 PM on April 5, 2006
And balance is once again restored to the universe.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:47 PM on April 5, 2006
Stavros is right, by the way.
Sometime between Kaycee Nicole and 9/11 things started slowly circling the drain-there was an influx of new people at that time. Metafilter became more and more well known, and less and less civil.
posted by konolia at 6:42 PM on April 5, 2006
Sometime between Kaycee Nicole and 9/11 things started slowly circling the drain-there was an influx of new people at that time. Metafilter became more and more well known, and less and less civil.
posted by konolia at 6:42 PM on April 5, 2006
*looks at self, punches Afroblanco square in the balls*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:11 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:11 PM on April 5, 2006
*looks at Afroblanco, quonsar, gleuschk, stavrosthewonderchicken; leaves*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:28 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:28 PM on April 5, 2006
*looks at monju_bosatsu leaving, closes and locks door behind him*
posted by dersins at 7:39 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by dersins at 7:39 PM on April 5, 2006
*looks at porn, opens MeTa tab, refreshes, snickers, goes back to porn*
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:45 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:45 PM on April 5, 2006
*looks at clouds from both sides now*
posted by hangashore at 8:00 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by hangashore at 8:00 PM on April 5, 2006
Afroblanco, for real, plus, anyone notice the joke?
Hint: Konolia, member since: September 9, 2002.
posted by The Monkey at 8:32 PM on April 5, 2006
Hint: Konolia, member since: September 9, 2002.
posted by The Monkey at 8:32 PM on April 5, 2006
Fuck, man. I was too young to understand what was going on, and I was 36 at the time.
posted by psmealey at 8:32 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by psmealey at 8:32 PM on April 5, 2006
Best derail evar.
posted by evilcolonel at 8:58 PM on April 5, 2006
posted by evilcolonel at 8:58 PM on April 5, 2006
trinarian, here's to great teaching. I've always wondered whether Metafilter would be good as a primary source, and if so for what specifically? I'd forgotton about that thread--it's a great resource.
Afroblanco, choice rejoinder. I see you used those hours away from the thread well. is the joke that folks are bitching about the site in the part of the site meant for bitching about the site?
dios, life sucks a bowl of cherry pits. and your wisdom (in this font) makes my nipples hard.
posted by carsonb at 10:55 PM on April 5, 2006
Afroblanco, choice rejoinder. I see you used those hours away from the thread well. is the joke that folks are bitching about the site in the part of the site meant for bitching about the site?
dios, life sucks a bowl of cherry pits. and your wisdom (in this font) makes my nipples hard.
posted by carsonb at 10:55 PM on April 5, 2006
The Monkey, konolia was another well-known mefite before she was konolia and that user joined on March 26th, 2001.
"Tell me something then, why the hell are you still here? Or, better yet, instead of bitching, why not start your own damn site?
I swear, you people are pathetic. You spend time on a site that, according to you, has done nothing but lose value over the years, and then you spend even more of your time complaining about it on that very site!"
Let's say starting my own site would have 100 units of the utility MetaFilter has for me. Let's say other, established sites have 1,000. And now let's say that MetaFilter has 10,000 units of utility for me. And that MetaFilter has been decreasing in utility 1 unit per day since 9-11-01. That would mean that on 9-11, MetaFilter had 11,668 units of utility to me. The quality of MetaFilter has decreased by 7% during that time.
Therefore, I'd probably bitch that the quality has declined, but would not start my own site, nor go to another established site. I hope this answers your question.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:50 PM on April 5, 2006
"Tell me something then, why the hell are you still here? Or, better yet, instead of bitching, why not start your own damn site?
I swear, you people are pathetic. You spend time on a site that, according to you, has done nothing but lose value over the years, and then you spend even more of your time complaining about it on that very site!"
Let's say starting my own site would have 100 units of the utility MetaFilter has for me. Let's say other, established sites have 1,000. And now let's say that MetaFilter has 10,000 units of utility for me. And that MetaFilter has been decreasing in utility 1 unit per day since 9-11-01. That would mean that on 9-11, MetaFilter had 11,668 units of utility to me. The quality of MetaFilter has decreased by 7% during that time.
Therefore, I'd probably bitch that the quality has declined, but would not start my own site, nor go to another established site. I hope this answers your question.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:50 PM on April 5, 2006
I started hanging out at MeFi about a month after 9/11. I think I tried reading that thread on the first anniversary or something. I didn't get very far. Yes, it would be an excellent way to convey the experience to someone who hadn't been there for whatever reason.
posted by orange swan at 7:14 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by orange swan at 7:14 AM on April 6, 2006
I don't know how long exactly konolia has been here, but I do know that she had another username before she became konolia.
So like, the date on "konolia" means nothing.
N00b.
posted by beth at 7:34 AM on April 6, 2006
So like, the date on "konolia" means nothing.
N00b.
posted by beth at 7:34 AM on April 6, 2006
Oh shit. I didn't see that EB already mentioned what I just said. His posts kind of go by in a blur for me. Sorry.
posted by beth at 7:35 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by beth at 7:35 AM on April 6, 2006
Just to weigh in a little late here, I think Dersins said that the 9/11 thread makes him cry. For me, it's always this one. I have vowed never to read it again. Ever.
posted by Jofus at 8:04 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by Jofus at 8:04 AM on April 6, 2006
...and just to be clearer, that post underlines the community yada yada about Metafilter. (And, it suddenly occurs to me, only underlines the fact that it's about time I shelled out my $5 to cover wear and tear.)
posted by Jofus at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2006
posted by Jofus at 8:05 AM on April 6, 2006
To make us oldbies feel good irrespective of your reaction, of course.
And I don't wish you'd never joined, Afroblanco.
posted by cortex at 12:53 PM on April 6, 2006
And I don't wish you'd never joined, Afroblanco.
posted by cortex at 12:53 PM on April 6, 2006
This is an interesting message in the 9/11 thread:
posted by five fresh fish at 12:59 PM on April 6, 2006
a rumour that the Iraqis have hijacked 7 passenger planes around the world and are planning more of this. this is the rumour here, I'm in Paris, has anyone else heard anything like this?Within a couple hours, rumour of Iraqi involvement? Was there already an "Iraqis are evil, out to kill us all" meme going around the USA prior to Bush's bogus claims?
posted by hazyjane at 7:07 AM PST on September 11 [!]
posted by five fresh fish at 12:59 PM on April 6, 2006
Within a couple hours, rumour of Iraqi involvement? Was there already an "Iraqis are evil, out to kill us all" meme going around the USA prior to Bush's bogus claims?
I know it was one of the popular theories I heard going around at my college (right across the Hudson River, incidentally). Really, Osama bin Laden wasn't a name most people knew and/or thought could pull something like that off; now, Saddam, on the other hand, there was this bad guy with plenty of resources, so it was easy for people to blame him at the time (or even still today for some people, it seems).
posted by Godbert at 1:55 PM on April 6, 2006
I know it was one of the popular theories I heard going around at my college (right across the Hudson River, incidentally). Really, Osama bin Laden wasn't a name most people knew and/or thought could pull something like that off; now, Saddam, on the other hand, there was this bad guy with plenty of resources, so it was easy for people to blame him at the time (or even still today for some people, it seems).
posted by Godbert at 1:55 PM on April 6, 2006
It was an act of barbarism, unprecedented (precedented in intention, but not in scale).
There have been, before and after WTC, many acts of larger 'barbarism'.
It was felt all around the world, and changed it all. It was a mindset changing event for everyone.
You know, that's just plain not true. For most people it was an event, not a particularly mind blowing one at that, just like "poor gringos", then "poor afghanis", irakis, whoever-comes-next etc. Most of the world is much more in shcok over the reaction to WTC than the actual event.
posted by signal at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2006
There have been, before and after WTC, many acts of larger 'barbarism'.
It was felt all around the world, and changed it all. It was a mindset changing event for everyone.
You know, that's just plain not true. For most people it was an event, not a particularly mind blowing one at that, just like "poor gringos", then "poor afghanis", irakis, whoever-comes-next etc. Most of the world is much more in shcok over the reaction to WTC than the actual event.
posted by signal at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2006
Osama bin Laden wasn't a name most people knew and/or thought could pull something like that off
My recollection differs.
I remember Bin Laden being thrown out as a possible candidate very, very early on, and frequently; there was very little media mention of Hussein in the weeks immediately following 9/11. (In that same thread, in fact, I made my second-worst prediction ever: "Saddam Hussein seems to have come through his term as Designated Bad Guy pretty well, didn't he?")
posted by ook at 8:00 AM on April 7, 2006
My recollection differs.
I remember Bin Laden being thrown out as a possible candidate very, very early on, and frequently; there was very little media mention of Hussein in the weeks immediately following 9/11. (In that same thread, in fact, I made my second-worst prediction ever: "Saddam Hussein seems to have come through his term as Designated Bad Guy pretty well, didn't he?")
posted by ook at 8:00 AM on April 7, 2006
9/11 was an attack on thousands of innocent civilians. It was an act of barbarism, unprecedented (precedented in intention, but not in scale). It was felt all around the world, and changed it all.
Are you fucking kidding me? Unprecedented in scale? Have you ever actually read any history? Here's a little excerpt from Joshua 10:
The September 11 attacks were bad enough; there's no need to hype them with bullshit like that.
posted by languagehat at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2006
Are you fucking kidding me? Unprecedented in scale? Have you ever actually read any history? Here's a little excerpt from Joshua 10:
38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it:Then in the next chapter he goes on to do the same in the north, in pretty much the same words. Yes, of course this is myth as much as history, but it's a pretty good indication of how people behaved several millennia ago. For more recent events, there's a handy Wikipedia article that lists many, many, many "events of deliberate and direct mass killings, especially of noncombatant civilians," from ancient times ("Between 334-324 BC, Alexander will massacre at least a quarter million city dwellers at Sindimana, Gaza, and other locations") through the middle ages ("The Mongols under Genghis Khan laid siege to the capital city of Khwarezm and, after the Turkish garrison surrendered the city, drove out the remaining population slaughtering over 75,000 men, women, and children") to modern times (you've heard of the Holocaust, right?).
39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.
40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.
The September 11 attacks were bad enough; there's no need to hype them with bullshit like that.
posted by languagehat at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2006
signal:
Okay, I should have restricted more my affirmation. If I recall correctly, it is the largest act of barbarism not initiated by a government or otherwise large, dominant organization (not that being initiated by a government justifies it, but these are so common that they hardly surprise anyone)
As for changing the mindset, I don't mean the common people (specially outside America), who really don't give a damn. I am talking to a transition in the global geopolitical mindset: North America gone from undisputed hyperpower leadership to paranoia. The retaliation raised anti-americanism in Middle East and most of the world, and anti-americanism is surely a factor in the rise of populism in South America. China has been somewhat polarized opposite the USA because of the current beligerant policy in America. Xenophobia in Europe is on the rise, specially against muslims. I'd say the "War on Terror" is as much of a "world order" as the Cold War, and it all has been deflagrated by the attacks.
As for the world being more in shock over the reaction than to the actual event: entirely true. I didn't mean it was the attack and the attack only that changed the global mindset, I meant that the chain of events initiated by the attacks has changed it.
posted by qvantamon at 8:38 AM on April 7, 2006
Okay, I should have restricted more my affirmation. If I recall correctly, it is the largest act of barbarism not initiated by a government or otherwise large, dominant organization (not that being initiated by a government justifies it, but these are so common that they hardly surprise anyone)
As for changing the mindset, I don't mean the common people (specially outside America), who really don't give a damn. I am talking to a transition in the global geopolitical mindset: North America gone from undisputed hyperpower leadership to paranoia. The retaliation raised anti-americanism in Middle East and most of the world, and anti-americanism is surely a factor in the rise of populism in South America. China has been somewhat polarized opposite the USA because of the current beligerant policy in America. Xenophobia in Europe is on the rise, specially against muslims. I'd say the "War on Terror" is as much of a "world order" as the Cold War, and it all has been deflagrated by the attacks.
As for the world being more in shock over the reaction than to the actual event: entirely true. I didn't mean it was the attack and the attack only that changed the global mindset, I meant that the chain of events initiated by the attacks has changed it.
posted by qvantamon at 8:38 AM on April 7, 2006
languagehat: OK, I drop my comment on "unprecedented on scale". Although I hadn't made it clear, I certainly wasn't comparing it to the slaughters on the order of millions initiated by governments, or warlords, or the church. Anyway, let me just rephrase it to "It was in a scale large enough to be very surprising coming from a small (or, at least, thought small at that time) outlaw organization".
posted by qvantamon at 8:50 AM on April 7, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 8:50 AM on April 7, 2006
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posted by wheelieman at 9:27 AM on April 5, 2006