What do you guys think? November 2, 2001 9:58 AM Subscribe
Is every post just looking for opinions? Of the past 6 posts, 4 of them are just posting links to random pop culture links, and asking "What do you guys think?" [more inside]
After seeing the McDonald's thread I thought I had walked into a Usenet forum.
While posts like that aren't really against any rules (and people will respond to them), I just don't find them challenging in any way. Yeah, great, a new movie or a fast food place. What does that have to do with the web? How is a link to McDonald's website "interesting"? Oh, wow, there's an animated GIF of Ronald McDonald!
A typical response would be that it's "interesting" to hear other people's opinions. Well, sure, but that can be done in the ether of the web - or email. Or a bulletin board. Or Usenet.
Anyway, that McDonald's thread could have turned into an interesting thread. But the lack of effort, I'd say, on the part of a lot of people is causing simple Q&A threads to become the norm.
posted by hijinx at 10:07 AM on November 2, 2001
While posts like that aren't really against any rules (and people will respond to them), I just don't find them challenging in any way. Yeah, great, a new movie or a fast food place. What does that have to do with the web? How is a link to McDonald's website "interesting"? Oh, wow, there's an animated GIF of Ronald McDonald!
A typical response would be that it's "interesting" to hear other people's opinions. Well, sure, but that can be done in the ether of the web - or email. Or a bulletin board. Or Usenet.
Anyway, that McDonald's thread could have turned into an interesting thread. But the lack of effort, I'd say, on the part of a lot of people is causing simple Q&A threads to become the norm.
posted by hijinx at 10:07 AM on November 2, 2001
Whatever the rules say about threads like those, every time one of them survives on the home page, it makes me want to read MeFi less and less. For god's sake, someone pointed to the McDonald's home page as the primary link of a posting! That's just idiocy.
posted by delfuego at 10:09 AM on November 2, 2001
posted by delfuego at 10:09 AM on November 2, 2001
I've said that I like threads like this, and I think we all do, if done occasionally and well. The problem is simple monkey-see monkey-do here. Hopefully it's clear that more than one a day is too many, if the responses aren't that great or many in number.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:11 AM on November 2, 2001
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:11 AM on November 2, 2001
I deleted the dumbest ones. McD seemed like a joke, and the monsters one was just poorly done. What's your favorite character of a new film? Isn't there just two of them? Sheesh.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:26 AM on November 2, 2001
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:26 AM on November 2, 2001
I want to apologize profusely for my post. It was there to serve the same purpose as this post. to point out how silly they were, but in a more public. Obviously it was not funny, not obvious, and in the wrong forum. Mea culpa.
posted by thebigpoop at 11:00 AM on November 2, 2001
posted by thebigpoop at 11:00 AM on November 2, 2001
Matt: This isn't my place to say, but did you miss the Office Space thread? It's a link to a crappy fan page for a movie that came out in 1999. It seems to me like it's ripe for a smoting.
posted by gd779 at 12:44 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by gd779 at 12:44 PM on November 2, 2001
"Hey, I'm 33 years old. I think 33 is the best age because it has two threes in it. What's your favorite age?"
Personally, even though people respond to them, I'd love to have every poll-the-audience-no-real-link post deleted immediately and with extreme prejudice. No added dissing of the posters is needed, but if the posts just continue to get disappeared, maybe folks will stop assuming they're okay.
Since there's no negative reinforcement when they get deleted [you can't see ten similar deleted poll-type questions as examples of what NOT do do] as delfuego said, if one survives it sets a precedent. Maybe they're okay if they're really interesting? That's what the current plethora of them seems to be saying.
posted by jessamyn at 12:56 PM on November 2, 2001
Personally, even though people respond to them, I'd love to have every poll-the-audience-no-real-link post deleted immediately and with extreme prejudice. No added dissing of the posters is needed, but if the posts just continue to get disappeared, maybe folks will stop assuming they're okay.
Since there's no negative reinforcement when they get deleted [you can't see ten similar deleted poll-type questions as examples of what NOT do do] as delfuego said, if one survives it sets a precedent. Maybe they're okay if they're really interesting? That's what the current plethora of them seems to be saying.
posted by jessamyn at 12:56 PM on November 2, 2001
In my defense, the Beer post was ostensibly a link to the official Oktoberfest site. The beer stuff was, at least first, an addendum.
Got a question, though: say you have an idea that you think would be a good discussion starter (but NOT something that will start a ideology battle) - like a thesis question. example: "I think that a colony on mars is a good idea whose time has come; here's a link [link] that discusses the subject; here's another [link] that shows the detractions of the subject. Here's another [link] that gives some facts or exemplified in some way my idea." Then say, the first thread post is some further exposition of the thesis, perhaps 2-3 paragraphs worth, with or without links.
Would that be proper? Is it acceptable to make posts that are inherently ideas rather than links?
posted by UncleFes at 1:12 PM on November 2, 2001
Got a question, though: say you have an idea that you think would be a good discussion starter (but NOT something that will start a ideology battle) - like a thesis question. example: "I think that a colony on mars is a good idea whose time has come; here's a link [link] that discusses the subject; here's another [link] that shows the detractions of the subject. Here's another [link] that gives some facts or exemplified in some way my idea." Then say, the first thread post is some further exposition of the thesis, perhaps 2-3 paragraphs worth, with or without links.
Would that be proper? Is it acceptable to make posts that are inherently ideas rather than links?
posted by UncleFes at 1:12 PM on November 2, 2001
Hi Jessamyn! I'm 28, and I think 28 is a great age since (aside from 6) it is the only age that any of us can hope to attain which is a perfect number! Anyway, I'm really glad you brought this up! How old is every else, and why is your age special?
posted by sylloge at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by sylloge at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2001
I want to apologize profusely for my post. It was there to serve the same purpose as this post. to point out how silly they were, but in a more public. Obviously it was not funny, not obvious, and in the wrong forum. Mea culpa.
Sounds a lot like the fourth link to 'Get your war on' that appeared on the front page. I'd have to argue that posting such a link simply to mock or degrade the current trend of posting does little to actually change the trends. In fact, every one of the threads that survives merely serves to set a poor example for those members who are not intelligent or seasoned enough to recognize the difference between a good post or a bad post.
More than that, though, this kind of thing makes more work for Matt, who's really just trying to keep things in order.
Rather than deleting bad posts to make room for more bad posts that do the same thing, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to simply close posting to them as an example of what not to do. Casual visitors of MeFi (those that don't _live_ here, possibly don't realize that inappropriate content is disappearing from the front page. Maybe.
posted by dogmatic at 1:19 PM on November 2, 2001
Sounds a lot like the fourth link to 'Get your war on' that appeared on the front page. I'd have to argue that posting such a link simply to mock or degrade the current trend of posting does little to actually change the trends. In fact, every one of the threads that survives merely serves to set a poor example for those members who are not intelligent or seasoned enough to recognize the difference between a good post or a bad post.
More than that, though, this kind of thing makes more work for Matt, who's really just trying to keep things in order.
Rather than deleting bad posts to make room for more bad posts that do the same thing, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to simply close posting to them as an example of what not to do. Casual visitors of MeFi (those that don't _live_ here, possibly don't realize that inappropriate content is disappearing from the front page. Maybe.
posted by dogmatic at 1:19 PM on November 2, 2001
How old is every else, and why is your age special?
I'm 34, and there is not a damn thing special about it. There are scads of people who are 34, me included, and most of the are substantially less than special. Average, you could even say. 34 is a middling age - to old to do things that young people do, to young to do the things that old people do. You just get to sit in the purgatory of half-life-overness, watching a distant but steadily approaching mortality inexorably squeeze out the vivid memories, idealism, and foolish dreams of youth. 34 is the age your finally reconcile yourself to the fact that your life and your dreams have permanently diverged; 34 is the age you buy life insurance; 34 is the age when salesgirls start calling you "sir"; 34 is the age when your realize you will never again feel the slick heat of new love, the taste of a stranger's lips, the adrenaline rush of cowboy fear. 34 is about responsibility, and watchfulness, and the slow slide into what Roger Waters called "...alcohol-soft middle age."
Sorry, it's an overcast Friday here at 34. The weekend beckons... but one rues the loss of the week.
posted by UncleFes at 1:44 PM on November 2, 2001
I'm 34, and there is not a damn thing special about it. There are scads of people who are 34, me included, and most of the are substantially less than special. Average, you could even say. 34 is a middling age - to old to do things that young people do, to young to do the things that old people do. You just get to sit in the purgatory of half-life-overness, watching a distant but steadily approaching mortality inexorably squeeze out the vivid memories, idealism, and foolish dreams of youth. 34 is the age your finally reconcile yourself to the fact that your life and your dreams have permanently diverged; 34 is the age you buy life insurance; 34 is the age when salesgirls start calling you "sir"; 34 is the age when your realize you will never again feel the slick heat of new love, the taste of a stranger's lips, the adrenaline rush of cowboy fear. 34 is about responsibility, and watchfulness, and the slow slide into what Roger Waters called "...alcohol-soft middle age."
Sorry, it's an overcast Friday here at 34. The weekend beckons... but one rues the loss of the week.
posted by UncleFes at 1:44 PM on November 2, 2001
3 is a magic number....
posted by ParisParamus at 2:16 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 2:16 PM on November 2, 2001
Is it acceptable to make posts that are inherently ideas rather than links?
I'm not sure, UncleFes. I think restraint is the key, again. It's fine to every now-and-then have an idea post, but they just get too frequent. I really respect a lot of MeFiers' opinions, and sometimes I think it'd be nice to just bounce some ideas off y'all, but I don't think it's really front-page material.
I don't think MeFi should turn into an idea board, but maybe something else could--a listserv, Yahoo group of MeFiers, something like that?
What do you think?
posted by gramcracker at 2:20 PM on November 2, 2001
I'm not sure, UncleFes. I think restraint is the key, again. It's fine to every now-and-then have an idea post, but they just get too frequent. I really respect a lot of MeFiers' opinions, and sometimes I think it'd be nice to just bounce some ideas off y'all, but I don't think it's really front-page material.
I don't think MeFi should turn into an idea board, but maybe something else could--a listserv, Yahoo group of MeFiers, something like that?
What do you think?
posted by gramcracker at 2:20 PM on November 2, 2001
Maybe people intentionally post stupid, inappropriate threads to precipitate good Metatalk threads. This one is funny.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:24 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 2:24 PM on November 2, 2001
I'm 35 and have been told I can't have pie anymore.
Damn, UncleFes - you're bringing me down. No "rage against the dying of the light", eh?
posted by crankyrobot at 2:31 PM on November 2, 2001
Damn, UncleFes - you're bringing me down. No "rage against the dying of the light", eh?
posted by crankyrobot at 2:31 PM on November 2, 2001
Sometimes I suppose we all need the relief brought on the TheBigPoop :)
No "rage against the dying of the light", eh?
Sorry, cranky, the rage died sometime in between my last cigarette and my first tablet of Lipitor.
posted by UncleFes at 2:36 PM on November 2, 2001
No "rage against the dying of the light", eh?
Sorry, cranky, the rage died sometime in between my last cigarette and my first tablet of Lipitor.
posted by UncleFes at 2:36 PM on November 2, 2001
Rather than deleting bad posts to make room for more bad posts that do the same thing, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to simply close posting to them as an example of what not to do.
I was talking about this phenomena in the "we want categories" thread, but you run the risk of fostering the things you wish to diminish when you designate a public place for bad things. If I created trashcan.metafilter.com with all the deleted threads, it'd serve as examples of what not to do, sure. It'd also create a permanent place for something, regardless of how stupid, inflammatory, or abusive it is. Someone would want to be "king of the trashcan" and might post purposely bad threads to get canned there. Others might see the "what is your a/s/l?" threads and continue to post them on MetaFilter, knowing they can read them at the trashcan. It might come back to haunt us.
I'll make a trashcan db view in the next couple weeks, but never link it from metafilter.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:57 PM on November 2, 2001
I was talking about this phenomena in the "we want categories" thread, but you run the risk of fostering the things you wish to diminish when you designate a public place for bad things. If I created trashcan.metafilter.com with all the deleted threads, it'd serve as examples of what not to do, sure. It'd also create a permanent place for something, regardless of how stupid, inflammatory, or abusive it is. Someone would want to be "king of the trashcan" and might post purposely bad threads to get canned there. Others might see the "what is your a/s/l?" threads and continue to post them on MetaFilter, knowing they can read them at the trashcan. It might come back to haunt us.
I'll make a trashcan db view in the next couple weeks, but never link it from metafilter.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:57 PM on November 2, 2001
Clearly 77 is the best age because you get 8 more than 69. Ha!
Seriously it seems like there is some pent up demand for a MeFi list serve or chat channel to bleed off some of the wacky types of stuff the site generates. Judging from the past few weeks, it may be too late to save MetaTalk, but if we act fast, maybe.
I think Matt said a few days ago that he didn't want to have to administer that kind of thing, and I can't blame him, but if somebody created it, would he provide a link so that people could sign up for it -- you know once the announcement scrolls off the MeTa page?
posted by willnot at 3:07 PM on November 2, 2001
Seriously it seems like there is some pent up demand for a MeFi list serve or chat channel to bleed off some of the wacky types of stuff the site generates. Judging from the past few weeks, it may be too late to save MetaTalk, but if we act fast, maybe.
I think Matt said a few days ago that he didn't want to have to administer that kind of thing, and I can't blame him, but if somebody created it, would he provide a link so that people could sign up for it -- you know once the announcement scrolls off the MeTa page?
posted by willnot at 3:07 PM on November 2, 2001
I'm with Jessamyn on this one. I hate these random poll the audience questions. Hate them. And lately I've been tempted to post horrible evil things in their threads, but I don't because I don't want to set a bad behavioral example. If all the, "how big is your TV? Mine is 36 in."-type questions went away tomorrow and were never allowed again, I'd be very happy.
posted by megnut at 3:21 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by megnut at 3:21 PM on November 2, 2001
Speaking personally (cuz I wrote one of those threads), just looking for opinions is a bit harsh.
In my defence, here's something I wrote earlier about what I think's a good post.
The thread cited here wasn't seeking opinions, but crunchy links. If that's not what we're about here, I give up. I might not be good at crafting posts yet, but I'm not a seeker of debate for the sake of it.
Sorry if something in that offends.
posted by walrus at 4:01 PM on November 2, 2001
In my defence, here's something I wrote earlier about what I think's a good post.
The thread cited here wasn't seeking opinions, but crunchy links. If that's not what we're about here, I give up. I might not be good at crafting posts yet, but I'm not a seeker of debate for the sake of it.
Sorry if something in that offends.
posted by walrus at 4:01 PM on November 2, 2001
Yeah, I mean come on, it's obvious that the Yankees are
But seriously, I'd like to see some of those links amscray, too. I'm telling ya, it's time for the new MetaTalk (OK, the implementation is open for debate :)...
posted by teradome at 4:22 PM on November 2, 2001
Gods team[sic]. Why even start to talk about it?
But seriously, I'd like to see some of those links amscray, too. I'm telling ya, it's time for the new MetaTalk (OK, the implementation is open for debate :)...
posted by teradome at 4:22 PM on November 2, 2001
uncle fes: you're only 34?????? I had you pegged for a curmudgeonly older guy. :)
34 is the age your finally reconcile yourself to the fact that your life and your dreams have permanently diverged;
well, I'm here to promise you that there is an age--older than you are now--at which you realise that your dreams are right there for the taking, even if you gave them up at age 34.
posted by rebeccablood at 4:45 PM on November 2, 2001
34 is the age your finally reconcile yourself to the fact that your life and your dreams have permanently diverged;
well, I'm here to promise you that there is an age--older than you are now--at which you realise that your dreams are right there for the taking, even if you gave them up at age 34.
posted by rebeccablood at 4:45 PM on November 2, 2001
How is a link to McDonalds, a significant American cultural symbol, different than posting a current war link from CNN or the BBC. With all the posts related to the war going on, a McDonald's post seems somewhat appropriate. Part of the war maybe related to the fear of Muslim countries of Western influence on their culture. A lot of the front page posts seem to be related to current culture. If McDonald's had a Flash applet with falling hamburgers would it have been considered a better post?
posted by obedo at 9:21 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by obedo at 9:21 PM on November 2, 2001
34 was the age when I finally reconciled myself to the fact that I'm never gonna have washboard abs.
I cried like a little girl. A pudgy one.
"If McDonald's had a Flash applet with falling hamburgers would it have been considered a better post?"
Oh dear, me, no. Sweet jebus, no. On the other hand, if it had evil-flashing-eyeball kitties, then, as the pimp said to the fishmonger, hoohah!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:48 PM on November 2, 2001
I cried like a little girl. A pudgy one.
"If McDonald's had a Flash applet with falling hamburgers would it have been considered a better post?"
Oh dear, me, no. Sweet jebus, no. On the other hand, if it had evil-flashing-eyeball kitties, then, as the pimp said to the fishmonger, hoohah!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:48 PM on November 2, 2001
Zounds. UncleFes is only 34? I'm gonna miss the world-weary dude with 12 kids, 4 mortgages, a lifetime memebership in Hair Club, and a burgundy minivan. Sigh. Unpeg the dude and stick him in the out-of-focus group...
posted by Opus Dark at 11:04 PM on November 2, 2001
posted by Opus Dark at 11:04 PM on November 2, 2001
obedo: MeFi links are supposed to be current, new information, or at least undiscovered information. If something new happens in the terrorism stuff, a link to CNN make sense. It's a new event.
A link to McDonalds.com doesn't provide anything new. We all know what McDonald's is, we all have our opinions about McDonalds, it's not something new. It's been around for years. Now, if it were something about a new, Wacky/Weird McDonald's program (kind of like the Coke Says No to H2O program), then it would be a new, interesting post.
Just a possibility: I created a Yahoo! Group for this stuff. Dunno if it'll ever be used, but if you want to use it, go ahead...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MeFiQandA
posted by gramcracker at 11:37 PM on November 2, 2001
A link to McDonalds.com doesn't provide anything new. We all know what McDonald's is, we all have our opinions about McDonalds, it's not something new. It's been around for years. Now, if it were something about a new, Wacky/Weird McDonald's program (kind of like the Coke Says No to H2O program), then it would be a new, interesting post.
Just a possibility: I created a Yahoo! Group for this stuff. Dunno if it'll ever be used, but if you want to use it, go ahead...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MeFiQandA
posted by gramcracker at 11:37 PM on November 2, 2001
Perhaps the solution is not so much do outright delete lousy posts as to leave them there with strikes through them and set so that no-one can follow them up anymore, so that they serve as object lessons for what not to do. It would be ugly, but it might also cut down on the stupid posts when people see what is getting nuked.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 6:33 AM on November 3, 2001
posted by Steven Den Beste at 6:33 AM on November 3, 2001
How about showing a deleted post in a closed form on a temp page for say 12 hours with a small note from Matt saying why it was deleted (or a link to the relevant MetaTalk thread) so that people can see what gets chucked out. After 12 hours the post disappears from the public temp page, so there won't be anyone vying for the Trash King status.
posted by riffola at 12:07 AM on November 5, 2001
posted by riffola at 12:07 AM on November 5, 2001
It seems like half the opinion-soliciting posts could be made acceptable by just cutting off the trailing question. Remember when we used to post interesting links and the discussion followed naturally?
posted by owen at 2:51 PM on November 5, 2001
posted by owen at 2:51 PM on November 5, 2001
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posted by gramcracker at 10:02 AM on November 2, 2001