Possibly the first newsfilter complaint? October 12, 2001 10:07 AM Subscribe
As a mea culpa, my posting history will show a good deal of news posts in the past, but I've tried really hard recently to refrain from that and practice what I am preaching.
posted by msacheson at 10:19 AM on October 12, 2001
posted by msacheson at 10:19 AM on October 12, 2001
i would like to see news separated from "interesting" posts, though i don't know if merged categories would be the way to go (as per teradome's thread); i would prefer it if they were separated and put into a different table altogether, so that you see them only if you visit news.metafilter.com. theoretically, you could use the same templates for newsfi that you'd use for mefi; just switch the name of the table you're accessing (or make that configurable, or something).
posted by moz at 10:41 AM on October 12, 2001
posted by moz at 10:41 AM on October 12, 2001
teradome: yeah, how 'bout that. Great minds think alike, eh? I like your idea and moz's suggestions as well for separating news links. I'd be interested to hear from more old-timers, because I'm sure this has come up before. Who knows, maybe we're the only ones that are annoyed by the proliferation of news links to an extent to rant about it. If it's acceptable to most, and okay by Matt, then we'll leave it as is.
posted by msacheson at 10:48 AM on October 12, 2001
posted by msacheson at 10:48 AM on October 12, 2001
teradome: yeah, how 'bout that. Great minds think alike, eh? I like your idea and moz's suggestions as well for separating news links. I'd be interested to hear from more old-timers, because I'm sure this has come up before. Who knows, maybe we're the only ones that are annoyed by the proliferation of news links to an extent to rant about it. If it's acceptable to most, and okay by Matt, then we'll leave it as is.
posted by msacheson at 10:50 AM on October 12, 2001
posted by msacheson at 10:50 AM on October 12, 2001
Who knows, maybe we're the only ones that are annoyed by the proliferation of news links to an extent to rant about it.
Ah ha. ha ha heh ha uh hee hee ho ha hoo.
That's practically all we talk about here anymore. But no one can do anything. If we talk about it in the threads we get flamed. If we talk abut it in MeTa, the target audience never sees it. We can't really suggest changes because Matt's all backed up on the pony thing.
Matt: if it matters to you like it does a lot of us here, you should YELL at people on the front page. Put up a big notice that says "HEY!!! NO MORE NEWS LINKS PEOPLE! ENOUGH!! STOP!!"
Or not, and if the answer is not, it's not going to stop.
posted by rodii at 11:08 AM on October 12, 2001
Ah ha. ha ha heh ha uh hee hee ho ha hoo.
That's practically all we talk about here anymore. But no one can do anything. If we talk about it in the threads we get flamed. If we talk abut it in MeTa, the target audience never sees it. We can't really suggest changes because Matt's all backed up on the pony thing.
Matt: if it matters to you like it does a lot of us here, you should YELL at people on the front page. Put up a big notice that says "HEY!!! NO MORE NEWS LINKS PEOPLE! ENOUGH!! STOP!!"
Or not, and if the answer is not, it's not going to stop.
posted by rodii at 11:08 AM on October 12, 2001
msacheson: I was the one who started the NBC-anthrax thread on the main page. And I will be mindful of your points, and those of others. Being relatively new to posting on Metafilter, I try to keep in mind (not always successfully) the "sense of the community" here (and anyplace else, for that matter).
Conversely, can we get a perky electronic theme for NewsFi? Some nice popping graphics? Pancakes?
So consider me spanked. And I didn't even have to pay extra this time. :)
(obligatory Monty Python reference: the castle in Holy Grail was Castle Anthrax. "And after the spanking, the oral sex!")
posted by ebarker at 11:26 AM on October 12, 2001
Conversely, can we get a perky electronic theme for NewsFi? Some nice popping graphics? Pancakes?
So consider me spanked. And I didn't even have to pay extra this time. :)
(obligatory Monty Python reference: the castle in Holy Grail was Castle Anthrax. "And after the spanking, the oral sex!")
posted by ebarker at 11:26 AM on October 12, 2001
I feel I should voice that I happen to like newslinks.
I think, though, that there is a difference between news that engages, inspires....and news that is quirky or mildly interesting and can only cause MeFites to say, "haha" or "wow."
I really appreciate the breaking news links, because I then run to turn on CNN and refresh MeFi -- news overload. But that's because I'm sick. But obviously, this should be reserved for dire cases: earthquakes, bombs, WTC, anthrax.
Yes, I think a NY case of anthrax is pretty damn important.
posted by jennak at 11:32 AM on October 12, 2001
I think, though, that there is a difference between news that engages, inspires....and news that is quirky or mildly interesting and can only cause MeFites to say, "haha" or "wow."
I really appreciate the breaking news links, because I then run to turn on CNN and refresh MeFi -- news overload. But that's because I'm sick. But obviously, this should be reserved for dire cases: earthquakes, bombs, WTC, anthrax.
Yes, I think a NY case of anthrax is pretty damn important.
posted by jennak at 11:32 AM on October 12, 2001
Thanks to you guys for discussing it here (and thanks to anyone else following this comment). ebarker, thanks for coming in here to discuss the issue. I don't dispute your right to post the link you did about the report of anthrax at NBC...it is important, I agree, jennak. ebarker, you say you're new to posting on MeFi. I'm new to MetaTalk; this is my first MeTa post. I just wanted to take this opportunity to discuss the NewsFi issue as I see it, and is not meant as a slam on you, your posting, or the anthrax story. rodii, thanks, and I think you can tell you and I agree.
posted by msacheson at 11:59 AM on October 12, 2001
posted by msacheson at 11:59 AM on October 12, 2001
great minds think alike
"and fools seldom differ"
perhaps not in this case tho
posted by walrus at 12:08 PM on October 12, 2001
"and fools seldom differ"
perhaps not in this case tho
posted by walrus at 12:08 PM on October 12, 2001
Jennak, the problem with news links is that we do truly lose the filter aspect of it.
Let me explain that... With the old metafilter, it was finding cool out of the way shit on the internet. Stuff that you probably haven't run across before.
With the new Metafilter, it's posting from widely read sources all that is interesting to each individual posting. Since there is a limited amount of news (at least above the local threshold) it is a high probability that out of 12,000 members, every piece of news will be important to someone on Metafilter.
What that means is that every piece of news will be posted, and hence this place becomes CNN/MSNBC/TheRegister/The Guardian all rolled up into one.
I liked the occasional news links when it was very big news or when it was something important that missed the front pages.
But the problem with something like WAR ON AMERICA is that the newsies are in high gear cranking out all of the journalistic goodness they can. And because it's so close to home, every single news item is "worthy" (at least to the people posting them).
The news isn't going to die down any sooner and hence we all need to have restraint in posting any news stories.
THIS IS WHERE METADISCUSS would come in quite handy, because all of these news items would be contained in one thread and it could be discussed as it came out... Ugh.
posted by fooljay at 12:08 PM on October 12, 2001
Let me explain that... With the old metafilter, it was finding cool out of the way shit on the internet. Stuff that you probably haven't run across before.
With the new Metafilter, it's posting from widely read sources all that is interesting to each individual posting. Since there is a limited amount of news (at least above the local threshold) it is a high probability that out of 12,000 members, every piece of news will be important to someone on Metafilter.
What that means is that every piece of news will be posted, and hence this place becomes CNN/MSNBC/TheRegister/The Guardian all rolled up into one.
I liked the occasional news links when it was very big news or when it was something important that missed the front pages.
But the problem with something like WAR ON AMERICA is that the newsies are in high gear cranking out all of the journalistic goodness they can. And because it's so close to home, every single news item is "worthy" (at least to the people posting them).
The news isn't going to die down any sooner and hence we all need to have restraint in posting any news stories.
THIS IS WHERE METADISCUSS would come in quite handy, because all of these news items would be contained in one thread and it could be discussed as it came out... Ugh.
posted by fooljay at 12:08 PM on October 12, 2001
I like newslinks too, which is why I use moreover a lot, but at the same time I'd like to read those headlines and then chat about them with the metafilter gang... we are filtering up the good ones, but it's just the amount of news stories right now is overwhelming -- i just think since there's already categories in metatalk, applying the same system in metafilter would help users sort out the links on their own...
posted by teradome at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by teradome at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2001
FWIW, I think there have been some super-rad non-news threads in the past few days, like the one about M.O's. There have also been some great newsy links that I didn't see anywhere else, like the "skyfall.htm" one.
posted by jeb at 12:24 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by jeb at 12:24 PM on October 12, 2001
OK, I just had a quick look at the topics on the front page and divided them into completely arbitrary catagories that made sense to me. 10 out of 16 were WTC related in some way or another, which seems way too much.
However, only one (anthrax) was what I called "breaking news" (and what this thread is about). Two were "silly" (the pacifist troll thing and terrorist or not). One was "analysis" (left needs media upgrade) and six ended up in "background" (atheists, tears, assassination, European search, cartoon, calendar) (and maybe those last two groups could be merged).
Ignoring the "silly" stuff, it seems to me that what is really tedious is the volume of low grade, vaguely WTC-related background topics - the steady drip-drip of the same tired ideas with "new angles". Without those, the anthrax breaking news would probably look fresh and interesting.
What I'm getting to is that topics should be judged on more general points: that they are new, interesting and worth discussion. The anthrax fits all of those, as far as I can see, more so than most of the "WTC background" links.
So I say - stick with general guidelines. Avoid labelling very specific "bad" topics and, instead, try and find a way to raise the quality of the middle ground.
Just my tuppence-worth....
posted by andrew cooke at 12:35 PM on October 12, 2001
However, only one (anthrax) was what I called "breaking news" (and what this thread is about). Two were "silly" (the pacifist troll thing and terrorist or not). One was "analysis" (left needs media upgrade) and six ended up in "background" (atheists, tears, assassination, European search, cartoon, calendar) (and maybe those last two groups could be merged).
Ignoring the "silly" stuff, it seems to me that what is really tedious is the volume of low grade, vaguely WTC-related background topics - the steady drip-drip of the same tired ideas with "new angles". Without those, the anthrax breaking news would probably look fresh and interesting.
What I'm getting to is that topics should be judged on more general points: that they are new, interesting and worth discussion. The anthrax fits all of those, as far as I can see, more so than most of the "WTC background" links.
So I say - stick with general guidelines. Avoid labelling very specific "bad" topics and, instead, try and find a way to raise the quality of the middle ground.
Just my tuppence-worth....
posted by andrew cooke at 12:35 PM on October 12, 2001
Ooops. My front page is recent comments, and is supposed to be 20 threads - the missing 4 were "other factual". So WTC related is 10/20 (half of all threads).
posted by andrew cooke at 12:38 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by andrew cooke at 12:38 PM on October 12, 2001
Remember, this is "weblog as community." And as any community matures, it's going to get a bit looser as everyone gets more comfortable and familiar with each other. And that directly leads to more guaranteed-to-garner-high-participation links. Plus of course in the post-9/11 world all anyone wants to talk about is the news, so you have to allow for that to some extent or another. I think it's especially bad to pick the 30 Rock anthrax thread as the main example, since if we were going to limit newsy posts, my first suggestion for a rule would be: If it's big enough news to make the networks break in for a special report, it's big enough to post here. This was a break-in-level story.
posted by aaron at 1:17 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by aaron at 1:17 PM on October 12, 2001
good points, aaron. I know this wasn't the greatest story to make an example of in my "NewsFi" rant.
posted by msacheson at 1:40 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by msacheson at 1:40 PM on October 12, 2001
What aaron said. The anthrax thread was (I'm pretty sure) the only thread I had any interest in today.
posted by sudama at 1:52 PM on October 12, 2001
posted by sudama at 1:52 PM on October 12, 2001
fooljay, your theory in that link is pretty dead on.
plus, i too love pancakes.
in a way, it sounds to me like metafilter needs to incorporate nntp to offload discussions. this here would become meta.talk, threads created from metafilter links would get copied into meta.filter. mirror the user/logins between the two and there you go...
also the time delay idea (elsewhere in that thread) for metafilter is great, because it not only keeps people from responding conversationally to previous responses, but it stops others from starting threads purely designed to generate discussion. as long as there's an outlet for those who want it.
posted by teradome at 1:53 PM on October 12, 2001
plus, i too love pancakes.
in a way, it sounds to me like metafilter needs to incorporate nntp to offload discussions. this here would become meta.talk, threads created from metafilter links would get copied into meta.filter. mirror the user/logins between the two and there you go...
also the time delay idea (elsewhere in that thread) for metafilter is great, because it not only keeps people from responding conversationally to previous responses, but it stops others from starting threads purely designed to generate discussion. as long as there's an outlet for those who want it.
posted by teradome at 1:53 PM on October 12, 2001
Let me explain that... With the old metafilter, it was finding cool out of the way shit on the internet. Stuff that you probably haven't run across before.
"Back in the day..." *giggle*
Back in the day we posted newslinks too. (And I didn't have to look too hard for those, either.) I'm just worried that if the point becomes finding what is OBSCURE! and COOL! then we become a memepool and not a community.
And what Andrew said.
posted by jennak at 2:27 PM on October 12, 2001
"Back in the day..." *giggle*
Back in the day we posted newslinks too. (And I didn't have to look too hard for those, either.) I'm just worried that if the point becomes finding what is OBSCURE! and COOL! then we become a memepool and not a community.
And what Andrew said.
posted by jennak at 2:27 PM on October 12, 2001
I came late to the party, 'cause this Annanova-esqe FP post annoyed me and I wanted to grumble a bit, but not necessarily start another MetaNews thread.
But jennak's comment interested me, as there has been talk here and elsewhere, some from Matt too, I think, about a memepool model being to one degree or another an appropriate one for MeFi.
Memepool is fine, but about as compelling as a not very compelling thing, in my opinion. Love it, don't feel the deep-vein neeeed for it. This place here, though, this is a community, amongst all the other things it is too.
And oh, yeah, I hate newslinks. Particularly wacky news links.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:58 PM on October 16, 2001
But jennak's comment interested me, as there has been talk here and elsewhere, some from Matt too, I think, about a memepool model being to one degree or another an appropriate one for MeFi.
Memepool is fine, but about as compelling as a not very compelling thing, in my opinion. Love it, don't feel the deep-vein neeeed for it. This place here, though, this is a community, amongst all the other things it is too.
And oh, yeah, I hate newslinks. Particularly wacky news links.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:58 PM on October 16, 2001
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posted by msacheson at 10:13 AM on October 12, 2001