Are marketers using mefi to create buzz?

November 4, 2001 10:38 PM

anybody else ever wonder if marketer's are secretly using mefi to create buzz about their products?
posted by nobody_knose to MetaFilter-Related at 10:38 PM (33 comments total)

But what about the kitties?

Not in this case--not with that story attached, not with the posts she's made. Plus I got to post my klitty's webpage!
Maybe some decaffeinated Sanka for you, buddy? Takes off that cranky edge...
posted by y2karl at 11:03 PM on November 4, 2001

klitty? Yikes! Is that Freudian or what? I swear to God all I do is spank her--honest!
posted by y2karl at 11:05 PM on November 4, 2001

Actually, it would be Public Relations People; not Marketing People.

It's an interesting topic. I suspect there are PR people out there. Perhaps a ban on purely commercial sites being posted could be imposed. But that does nothing for a media mention of some PR agency client's product or service or event.

I think that ultimately, there's nothing wrong with posting on Mefi for PR, provided the thing posted is genuinely interesting. Also, something is as likely, perhaps, more likely, to be torn apart as praised on Mefi. So I doubt Mefi will ever be overrun by guerilla PR efforts.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:00 AM on November 5, 2001

there's nothing wrong with posting on Mefi for PR

Hey PP - that's the second time I disagree with you in a few days' time. MetaFilter is practically the only island we have. No PR, no self-links, no second intentions, no malice, no wastes of time. Keep the scumbags out!

And, besides, who gives two flys' excretae about what the difference is between Marketing and PR? I myself feel a traitor and a lackey just by giving them capital letters. They don't ****ing deserve them, I say.
"Tearing apart" pr people or marketeers is a waste of valuable MeFi resources. It's better directed, surely, towards unpopular - but loyal - posters such as you and I. :-)

P.S. No profanity!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:21 AM on November 5, 2001

I would prefer there be no PR motivated posts, but since there's no way to know for sure (if it's done right--have the stuff I've posted may be have been PR-motivated, afterall...), accept it.

So you only disgreed with me once.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:28 AM on November 5, 2001

ParisParamus: And even then...I confess, only a little. Say half. It was only the correlation in dwfowler's specific post I disagreed with. Otherwise I think there might be something to your argument, although a hell of a lot of great writers and thinkers are notoriously foul-mouthed.

But, to stick to the point: PR I hate, and specially if it's done well. They are mercenaries, manipulators. And they stole two beautiful words - Public and Relations. Real public relations is this, between all of us, not pushing something you've been paid to push.
(We can't go on meeting like this, but here's something worth reading ,while you wait - just between you and me, of course...
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:51 AM on November 5, 2001

there's nothing wrong with posting on Mefi for PR

From the guidelines:

Posting a press release for your company's latest product launch or website makes for a bad post.

So I'd say there is something wrong with it, OTOH.
posted by walrus at 7:31 AM on November 5, 2001

And, besides, who gives two flys' excretae about what the difference is between Marketing and PR? I myself feel a traitor and a lackey just by giving them capital letters. They don't ****ing deserve them, I say.

Hehe... I love listening to journalists talking about pr (small case ;-)). Priceless. But anyway, I think it probably is only right that we draw the distinction between the publicists that you seem used to dealing with (and who we seem to be talking about here...), and those fine individuals that work with communications as a core business activity with an at best peripheral contribution to the bottom-line - both are classed as PR, at least in the UK/northern Europe.

Anyway, it's my job to sniff-out and evaluate the relative success of PR operatives in 'manipulating' journalists (betcha love me now Miguel :-p), so I'll give the nod if I see anything fishy... :-|



posted by bifter at 8:58 AM on November 5, 2001

y2karl: In retrospect, I should have been clearer in my post. I wasn't suggesting that this particular link was necessarily an example of a PR-driven post.

In fact, this particular post really wasn't really my ultimate point (although I certainly see now how it could be read that way.)

I was merely responding to the fact that it felt like it was written in the style that a PR person might use to plant a "buzz-seed" and I wanted to see how that idea would be interpreted by the MeFi community.

And for the record, Karl, I wasn't trying to be "cranky" or snide. I was just curious.
posted by nobody_knose at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2001

God Forgive Me. I used to work in interactive advertising, and toward the end, before I was mercifully let go (as you can see, I really enjoyed my job) they discussed infiltrating chat rooms and discussion boards to create buzz around products. There was one specific product, but I can't name it (BMW Mini) that I've always been watching out for on MeFi. And if it shows up, it's my fault. My boss would always see me reading MeFi, and eventually I explained to her what it is (a place to discuss Ralph Nader and SUV's) and she thought it would be PERFECT and just ripe for infiltration. Oh, gave me the willies.

Anyway, yeah, there are or were, at least, companies that exclusively do website infiltrations. I can't think of any of their names right now.
posted by Doug at 9:37 AM on November 5, 2001

The BMW Mini was discussed here. Now where was that URL? I had it just a minute ago...
posted by edlark at 10:57 AM on November 5, 2001

Here it is!

(Doug, the MeFi police should be knocking on your door right about...now.)
posted by edlark at 11:01 AM on November 5, 2001

that a PR person might use to plant a "buzz-seed" and I wanted to see how that idea would be interpreted by the MeFi community.

If the PR person is truly talented, no one will know; that's the nature of good PR.

posted by ParisParamus at 12:44 PM on November 5, 2001

Huh. Isn't that interesting. Well. there's no real way of knowing, I suppose, if it was planted. Considering tons of long time users enthused about wanting one, I doubt they even needed one. But it irks me to think that it might be.
posted by Doug at 1:09 PM on November 5, 2001

Oh, and a word about PR people...sorry if anyone reading this works in PR, but if you do, you're evil anyway....

Um, yeah, so a client wanted to do an online memorial for, basically, kids who died in car accidents. People would contribute poems and all that, and it would all be aggregated online in a big cyber-memorial, sponsored by Brand X. That, to me, was creepy enough. However, once the idea went to the PR people...woah boy. For one thing, it wasn't "edgy" enough. The PR people wanted to spice it up by getting the kids posting memorials to ARGUE with each other about safety. They wanted to create controversy out of a memorial for dead kids. One idea was to make kids insult the DEAD friends of other kids if they died in a car with a drunk person...very sickening.
So, I think PR must be the worst job, personally.
posted by Doug at 1:18 PM on November 5, 2001

A PR person is only as evil as his clients. But I do agree that people who go in that direction in career do have a certain soullessness about them....
posted by ParisParamus at 1:25 PM on November 5, 2001

But I do agree that people who go in that direction in career do have a certain soullessness about them....

This, from someone who went to law school...
posted by gd779 at 1:59 PM on November 5, 2001

Honestly -- I don't understand what is so bad about my living. You obviously all must:

a) be very informed about Public Relations and Public Affairs in order to cast such harsh judgement on the field and categorize all who work in the field as "evil."

b) be very poised and capable of talking with the media in a manner which clearly communicates and defends your point of view and prevents the jumbling of your message. I'm sure you're never quoted out of context in a paper, and when you have crisises, you naturally always know what to do.

There are many different types of PR. Some is more corporate. Some is advocacy. I work for a public affairs firm that works with governmental and legislative issues. The PR professionals that were used as examples are obviously bad apples, but let's make sure we attack the scummy, opportunistic companies and PR professionals?
posted by jennak at 2:02 PM on November 5, 2001

no one will know; that's the nature of good PR

point taken. still, I remain curious.

I gotta believe that a relatively high percentage of MeFi'ers fit the "opinion leader" profile that marketers are so desperate to reach. I'd be willing to bet that some flaks have infiltrated the mefi ranks here already. It's just too tempting for no one to have even tried.

I'm not suggesting this as someone who finds conspiracies in every nook and cranny. I personally don’t care so much if marketers are doing it, I just find it interesting.

While I don’t know if people necessarily view it this way, Mefi is already a kind of marketplace. Since it has had such great a success offering ideas and opinions, it is bound to eventually attract sellers of more tangible wares as well.

As PP said, if it's done well and well targeted, we'd never know. If it's clumsy and poorly targeted, it'd fail and the poster would be outted or ignored. Self-regulating free markets work pretty darn well, in cyberspace or meatspace.


posted by nobody_knose at 2:08 PM on November 5, 2001

If the PR person is truly talented, no one will know; that's the nature of good PR.

Well, you won't know unless you read PR trade publications... PR people gotta show that they're doing a good job like the rest of us and even the most soulless, evil publicity campaign gets submitted to awards panels. A PR campaign that *no-one* has heard of is extremely unlikely, necessitating as it does an altruistic (towards his client at least) PR exec.

Check out PR Week for example, or have a read about last week's PR Week Awards in the UK which I thankfully wriggled out of this year. I'm sure that PR Watch has also been linked here a million times for the outsiders' view of PR clangers.

posted by bifter at 2:18 PM on November 5, 2001

jennak, well, ya got me. You're clearly not evil, and what you do sounds nice. I guess it harks back to what Paris said about the clientelle...if you work for a public advocacy group, you probably don't do any nasty stuff. If you work for a soulless corporation, I'll bet you do.
Acting as a liason between an organization and the public is one thing, but once you are actively attempting to manipulate the public...it's jackass time! Rarely do people manipulate others for mutual benefit.
So, sorry if I offended you. I have a tendency to express myself poorly, and come as very hash. Any tips on how to improve that? :)
posted by Doug at 2:59 PM on November 5, 2001

Without wanting to piss on any bonfires, public affairs work *can be* (note: not *is*) the absolute worst form of PR from the points of view that are being argued here. It can consist of straightforward lobbying on behalf of entrenched corporate interests in in most... *koff*... "evil" form. Lobbying *against* environmental or animal rights legislation for example...
posted by bifter at 3:11 PM on November 5, 2001

no offense taken bifter & doug. just wanted to point out that your very own jennak is evil, according to the previous definition. :)

btw, public affairs tends not to be lobbying, but more about increasing public opinion for a particular issue. luckily, i've worked on projects i've wholeheartedly supported so far.
posted by jennak at 3:19 PM on November 5, 2001

Even we marketing scumbags look down on PR flacks :)

Just kidding jennak. I think posting PR items to Mefi violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the posting guidelines. Best to leave work at work, which I think you do anyway, so there you go.

animal rights legislation for example...

Are trolls animals and, if so, do they have subsequent rights? Or can they be killed outright? :D


posted by UncleFes at 3:23 PM on November 5, 2001

This is kinda off topic, but a serious question:

What do y'all mean when you say "soulless corporation"? For real. It's used a lot here, and I'd like a more specific definition.

Does the company have to engage in and profit from actual evil activities, like, say, the painful death of puppies or something to be classified as such?

posted by nobody_knose at 3:32 PM on November 5, 2001

This reminds me of the Great Music used in TV commercials - evil or OK? thread way back when.

(Note to Matt : MeFi search kept timing out on that one, Google brought it back as I recalled using 'goateed' in one of my rants, and it would seem that's the sole use of the word *ever* on MeFi. /me takes a bow.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:08 PM on November 5, 2001

*cough* Whack a Flack
posted by sillygit at 5:33 PM on November 5, 2001

nobody_knose --I'm always crabby when I get up & I got up at 5AM: that ol' debbil insomnia again... Anyway, I'm crabby and snide and just judge everyone else as harshly as myself with the underlying assumption that everyone else is myself. So, I'm sorry if I was being cranky and snide. I can't promise it won't happen again.

I was actually checking for some program notes and checked in here. It really is more addictive than crack. Yikes!

But I give myself time outs... So... whatever...
posted by y2karl at 6:53 PM on November 5, 2001

This, from someone who went to law school...
FYI, I am trying to escape law to do business development for a company I like....feel free to e-mail me if you know of anything...
posted by ParisParamus at 8:07 PM on November 5, 2001

Without wanting to piss on any bonfires

Sorry to deviate from the discussion, but wouldn't that extinguish the fire?
posted by ParisParamus at 8:10 PM on November 5, 2001

Doh! Screwed up the link earlier.
posted by sillygit at 8:30 PM on November 5, 2001

Scary scary PR
posted by j.edwards at 8:31 PM on November 5, 2001

Sorry to deviate from the discussion, but wouldn't that extinguish the fire?

Not if you drink as much Jack Daniels as I do.
posted by Optamystic at 12:59 AM on November 6, 2001