If you're young, black and alternative who or what do you listen to?

January 3, 2007 6:43 AM

If you're young, black and alternative who or what do you listen to? Only music by black people, apparently.
posted by caek to Etiquette/Policy at 6:43 AM (194 comments total)

I suppose it's better than listening to Koreans argue.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:53 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

*summons Ambrose*
posted by cortex at 6:54 AM on January 3, 2007

What the fuck, metafilter.

Did everyone resolve to be excessively oversensitive this year?

1, 2, 3, 4.

Unclench, everybody, unclench.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:54 AM on January 3, 2007

hold tight, everyone. I'm not ready for the torrent of lovesludge imminent on unclench.

where are my galoshes?
posted by carsonb at 6:57 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm not offended by the suggestions made; just amused.
posted by caek at 6:58 AM on January 3, 2007

You posted this to Meta because you're amused by the suggestions? What is it that you hope to accomplish? Come on. Give me something to work with here.
posted by iconomy at 7:03 AM on January 3, 2007

You know how Stephen Colbert does that routine where he claims that he is colorblind and can't see race at all. He will look at a black person and say "Oh are you black? I couldn't tell. I don't see race". A portion of Metafilter is like that, but they aren't parodying anything. They really want to pretend they are that way. They want to pretend that race doesn't exist at all, and no one should talk about it. We all know that those arguing Asians were almost certainly engaging in the ancient art of karate, but we are all too rapt up in white liberal guilt to admit it. Loosen up people!

Oh and someone should compile a list of all the non-black artists that were suggested in that AskMe thread. I would but I am unable to because I don't see race.
posted by ND¢ at 7:04 AM on January 3, 2007 [3 favorites]

?
posted by OmieWise at 7:06 AM on January 3, 2007

There are black people on Metafilter?!
posted by sourwookie at 7:06 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

There were numerous white groups mentioned in that question, for example:

Dangerdoom is one half white (well, more or less).
7L & Esoteric are white (at least Eso is for sure)
CunninLynguists have white members.
RJD2
Massive Attack (Has white group members)
Portishead
DJ Shadow
Handsome Boy Modeling School (one member is Asian)

Anyway, this is silly. But since you asked, there's some of the white groups mentioned.
posted by dead_ at 7:23 AM on January 3, 2007 [3 favorites]

Well, there's angryinla, but he may not be the best community example at the moment.
posted by yhbc at 7:23 AM on January 3, 2007

IRT sourwookie
posted by yhbc at 7:24 AM on January 3, 2007

Jedi Mind Tricks, too, often has white representation in many of their songs.
posted by dead_ at 7:28 AM on January 3, 2007

And the DefJux label that was suggested is basically the home of white hip-hop.
posted by dead_ at 7:29 AM on January 3, 2007

kids today with the hippin' and the hoppin' and the bippin' and the boppin'
posted by cortex at 7:32 AM on January 3, 2007

Dear AskMetafilter: my girlfriend wants me to unleash my imminent torrent of lovesludge on her face but I don't know if my consistency will be what she desires... should I change my diet?
posted by Rhomboid at 7:32 AM on January 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

I'm not offended by the suggestions made; just amused.

o rly?

That seems disingenuous. Why is this categorized as "etiquette/policy", then? Don't be surprised when your readers infer from your comments on the original thread and this MeTa post that you think there's been some kind of breach of etiquette.
posted by chinston at 7:35 AM on January 3, 2007

Massive Attack (Has white group members)

But come on, is Massive Attack really a BAND or are they more of a.... symphony orchestra or something?
posted by eparchos at 7:38 AM on January 3, 2007

Um, the same stuff you listen to if you're young, white and alternative: alternative music.
posted by caek at 5:38 AM EST on January 3

Only music by black people, apparently.
posted by caek to etiquette/policy at 9:43 AM EST

Yeah, we get it. You're offended. Next time why don't you come straight over here to cry rather than pissing in the thread? Here you'll get the attention - good and bad - that you so desperately need rather than in AskMe where everyone else won't reply to you directly because they're following the fucking directions.
posted by phearlez at 7:39 AM on January 3, 2007

can someone offend my racial background next please? i'm feeling kinda left out here.
posted by Stynxno at 7:45 AM on January 3, 2007

If there actually are fucking directions on MetaFilter, I think the moderation really has gone too far. Please let us do some things our own way.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:48 AM on January 3, 2007

I wish someone would say something to offend the Scottish percent of my background so I could use the "This thread is useless without Picts" line.
posted by Iron Rat at 7:52 AM on January 3, 2007 [5 favorites]

Portishead I thought they were for young, whiite secretaries and dental assitants who want to seem edgy without having to actually listen. Blech. I've always read their name as Port-a-shed, but I'm weird like that alot, I guess.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:53 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

Only music by black people, apparently.

Keep in mind that the OP asked for "an underground scene of bands that sing Doo-Wop or play Jump Blues, 60s Soul or 70s Funk".
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:56 AM on January 3, 2007

can someone offend my racial background next please? i'm feeling kinda left out here.

What are you again? Sumerian?

Always carving on clay tablets, I don't understand you people. WTF is a ziggurat anyway? Just call it a stack of buildings. You all think you're sooooooo special. Man, Sumerians are always yelling in the temple, driving the ox cart all crazy. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all Sumerians are bad, some of my best friends are from Uruk.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:58 AM on January 3, 2007 [12 favorites]

Portishead I thought they were for young, whiite secretaries and dental assitants who want to seem edgy without having to actually listen.

I resemble that remark. Portishead is resolutely also for ordinary people who merely happen to get tingly feelings in their special place when they listen to Beth Gibbons' singing.
posted by chrismear at 8:01 AM on January 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

I'm trying to figure out how to construct a 3 Doors Down joke involving "Be My Sumerian".
posted by cortex at 8:03 AM on January 3, 2007

If anyone ever asks what young, hip, half-black half-Jewish kids listen to, I'm going to answer Lenny Kravitz. Because you know they do.
posted by Kwine at 8:11 AM on January 3, 2007

Oh goodness. OP asked for, among other things, alternatives to mainstream rap. Alternatives were given.

Is it still a full moon? Just wonderin'.
posted by AV at 8:14 AM on January 3, 2007

tingly feelings in their special place

I'm not sure what's he matter with me, but I mostly get that tingly feeling from Lucinda Williams, or Patti Smith, when she says "People have the Power," or maybe Bjork singing Birthday on that first Sugarcubes album. Portashed just makes me nappy.

My favorite band sucks, though.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:14 AM on January 3, 2007

OK. I geddit. My points were:

1. How out of touch do you have to be to think that cool teenagers of any race listen to Jurrasic 5, Blackalicious, Portishead, Handsome Boy and The Roots? 1997 called.

2. If the teen is "alternative", then I don't think it's absurd (or disingenuous) to suggest they might like "alternative music", since alternative people are usually defined by their listening to alternative music (along with their natty threads, etc.). The respondents have taken the fact that this kid is black and suggested a lot of hip-hop. I don't think this is racist. I just think it's stupid.
posted by caek at 8:15 AM on January 3, 2007

Let's ask delmoi!

Yeah, he isn't the only half-black person here. (I listen to Death Cab, because my hipster is stronger than my genes.)
posted by dame at 8:16 AM on January 3, 2007

1. 1997 called.

For good sakes, pick up, PICK UP!!!! There were no love handles then.

2. If the teen is "alternative", then I don't think it's absurd (or disingenuous) to suggest they might like "alternative music",

Again, the OP asked for specific generes, not the blanket alternative music label. The OP might have been using the wrong terms.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:21 AM on January 3, 2007

1997 called.

For real. Those groups were great a decade ago. Now they are just cliche.

But I derail...
posted by dead_ at 8:21 AM on January 3, 2007

I, too, am feeling left out. Will someone please suggest that most Turks bear some common characteristics (having Turkish names, eg) so that some non-Turkish person can leap in and say, "how dare you suggest that all Turks are genocidal maniacs or terrorists?"? I tried to get all rankled in the Orhan Pamuk Pulitzer thread, but could not.

Also, caek, the roots did just put out a new album.
posted by Mister_A at 8:24 AM on January 3, 2007

"Will someone please suggest that most Turks bear some common characteristics ..."

I'd be delighted.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:29 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

Well, know what, the best rapper is white, the best golfer is black, and Germany doesn't want to go to war, so you're all behind the times anyway.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:30 AM on January 3, 2007

A horrible new album.
posted by dead_ at 8:30 AM on January 3, 2007

Stephin Merritt has no suggestions.
posted by deern the headlice at 8:30 AM on January 3, 2007

Again, the OP asked for specific generes, not the blanket alternative music label.

Sure, but I didn't see backpack hip hop and cubicle/frat-boy trip hop among them.

Also, caek, the roots did just put out a new album.

Yes, and so did The Who.
posted by caek at 8:31 AM on January 3, 2007

How out of touch do you have to be to think that cool teenagers of any race listen to Jurrasic 5, Blackalicious, Portishead, Handsome Boy and The Roots? 1997 called.

This comment makes me feel old, so I'd like to point out, in a defensive, snivelly voice, that HBMS didn't release an album until 1999 and Blackalicious didn't release a full-length until 2000, and didn't have a national following until Blazing Arrow came out in 2002.

I can't be old yet, right? please?
posted by Kwine at 8:35 AM on January 3, 2007

Kwine:

Old starts at 37. Oh, and have you heard these fresh young rappers from NYC, called Public Enemy? They are quite dope, my friend.
posted by Mister_A at 8:37 AM on January 3, 2007

Maybe things were different in the UK. Blackalicious were liked by most people who were modestly into alternative music when I was at (an infamously white, rich, uncool) university in the UK around 2000. HBMS had a similar profile thanks to their album. Neither has done anything here since. I haven't met anyone who has a copy of Blazing Arrow, for example.

But yes, for them at least 1997 was an exaggeration. Dummy came out in 1994 though, so I can claim I took an average, and you can still be vital and young.
posted by caek at 8:44 AM on January 3, 2007

Yes! Youth and vitality! Now off to find an 18-year-old hooker!
posted by Kwine at 8:55 AM on January 3, 2007

WHAT DOES BEING CANADIAN HAVE TO DO WITH IT!!!????
posted by ND¢ at 8:57 AM on January 3, 2007

You're right, ND¢. It's redundant.
posted by yeti at 9:00 AM on January 3, 2007

Haha! Get off our internets!! Back to Canadia with ye!!!
posted by Mister_A at 9:00 AM on January 3, 2007

Only music by black people, apparently.

How true. A sad reflection on MeFi. In answer to the poster's original question, the "Doo-Wop, Jump Blues, 60s Soul or 70s Funk" band he should try out is Garth Brooks. Also Eminem.

In an unrelated matter, could people here recommend some good traditional Ukrainian folk music groups?

Oh yes, and if the musicians listed should happen to be disproportionately of any particular ethnicity, this is because you are collectively - and, FWIW, quite unlike myself - full of worms and hatred. Thank you.
posted by dgaicun at 9:06 AM on January 3, 2007

MetaFilter: Old starts at 37.
posted by Duncan at 9:07 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

WHAT DOES BEING CANADIAN HAVE TO DO WITH IT!!!????

Um, when Canadians do their finanaces they yell really loudly, to drown out the sound of 3 Doors Down being sung by young Blacks who can't find any alternative music. Duh. Stupid Americans...
posted by iconomy at 9:10 AM on January 3, 2007

In answer to the poster's original question, the "Doo-Wop, Jump Blues, 60s Soul or 70s Funk" band he should try out is Garth Brooks.

And MF Doom.
posted by caek at 9:11 AM on January 3, 2007

Maybe things were different in the UK.

Well, obviously. We don't even like Robbie Williams over here.
posted by smackfu at 9:11 AM on January 3, 2007

And MF Doom.

As was listed in the 2nd comment in the thread.
posted by dgaicun at 9:13 AM on January 3, 2007

As was listed in the 2nd comment in the thread.

Precisely my point. MF Doom != Doo-Wop, Jump Blues, 60s Soul or 70s Funk any more than Garth Brooks.
posted by caek at 9:14 AM on January 3, 2007

2007 is going to be a banner year for shit MeTa posts.
posted by boo_radley at 9:16 AM on January 3, 2007

Indeed, yo
Somehow just by saying "black" in the OP, I knew that question would end up here.
posted by jmd82 at 9:21 AM on January 3, 2007

I've always read their name as Port-a-shed, but I'm weird like that alot, I guess

Well, you spell "a lot" as one word. I wish that was weird, but it's becoming frequently more commonplace. But, if you need some kind of validation, yes, you're weird.
posted by TheDonF at 9:26 AM on January 3, 2007

Maybe things were different in the UK.

The UK has always been a smaller culture - they never really had a separate "alternative" subculture the way we did in the US. In fact, much of what was popular among the "alternative" crowd in the US was mainstream in London - british comedy & music specifically had a following in america but not in the top 40 culture. I was always impressed how "with it" my seemingly ordinary/boring english relatives were about stuff I thought of as "underground" - and they were underground to housewives in ohio or small business owners in kentucky, which is yr "average" american.

this question seems clumsily put together, but I don't think we have to reject the premise that racial identity could have an impact on cultural preferences. May not, but teenagehood is exactly when you're seeking out identity markers, so it's not completely misguided to better educate oneself on the possible areas of overlap or confluence this kid might find appealing.
posted by mdn at 9:36 AM on January 3, 2007

Precisely my point.

You can easily take from that question that "mainstream R&B/rap" was unsatisfactory and that "alternative" forms might be more appreciated. Listing some preferred alternative hiphop acts was well within the bounds of the question.

Don't let this stop another dubious, self-aggrandizing lecture on others' lack of "sensitivity". One reason that races segregate in America is because some scolds are determined to make every innocuous interracial interaction into a chore of needless lectures and manners. If you can't recommend a band without someone publicly embarrassing you or second-guessing you, then the best way to preserve your own valuable social reputation is to just shut up and not interact with people of that ethnic group.

But this isn't about improving society, it's about publicly flaunting your own fabulous enlightenment at the expense of other members of the community such as sequential.
posted by dgaicun at 9:40 AM on January 3, 2007

For all the pharisaic rocksnobbery on mefi, I too can't believe that the best we answers we could come up with was outdated whiteboy hipsterhop. I mean, I own all of that stuff, but I'm in my 30s, so it's allowed.

Paging dobbs! He'd have good suggestions.
posted by veronica sawyer at 9:40 AM on January 3, 2007

I was regularly mocked for being Portuguese until I put my foot down and disappeared.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:41 AM on January 3, 2007 [3 favorites]

Cadence Weapon is a black Canadian rapper. And the Tokens are a white 60's Doo-Wop group whose lost album was release by a Korean label.

That covers about everything.
posted by yeti at 9:41 AM on January 3, 2007

Also, caek, the roots did just put out a new album.

Yes, and so did The Who.

Well, given that music could be considered my religion, for me those two equate signs for the apocalypse. If Coldplay releases anything anytime soon we are doomed.
posted by micayetoca at 9:45 AM on January 3, 2007

How dare anyone make any kind of reference to their own cultural, racial, ethic, national, or financial origins! Please, do not give any information that would differentiate you from the lowest common denominator, and run for the hills if you're wearing a shirt with a symbol on it that some incredibly obscure group finds offensive.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:52 AM on January 3, 2007

A lot of my suggestions in the thread have come up in this metatalk one, so I guess I'll take the opportunity to defend my choices.

I'm not black, nor am I particularly angsty. When I read "young, black and alternative" "who has grown to hate top-40 and mainstream R&B/rap," I made the jump to hip hop because one, the poster specifically mentioned Rhymesayers, and two, hip hop--particularly the more alternative strains mentioned in the responses--unquestionably bears the influence of blues and soul music. I don't know any contemporary Doo-Wop groups, so I didn't suggest any.

The suggestion that only black acts were mentioned is laughable, because if you were familiar with more of them you'd know that many are racially diverse. Perhaps you're the racist for assuming that hip hop is black music and "finding it amusing" that "only music by black people" was mentioned. I don't know. Substitute white for black in the question but leave the references to Atmosphere etc. and I would have suggested the same artists.

Acts I mentioned are popular with the group of people mentioned in the question. You can take a look at some of the posts on Okayplayer and see how often Portishead, Massive Attack, DJ Shadow, et al. are mentioned. That site (yes, run by The "relevant only in 1997" Roots---GTFOOH, by the way) caters specifically to a black audience who tends to reject mainstream rap and R&B.

Maybe in the UK, you're only allowed to like and appreciate music that was released in the past calendar year. Maybe once the fratboys co-opt J5, Blackstar and The Roots you can't be down anymore if you listen to them. Maybe if you don't agree with the suggestions in the thread, you should post some of your own. But I suspect your attitude has more to do with some kind of holier-than-thou music snob elitism combined with some misguided political correctness than actual interest in answering the question.
posted by cosmic osmo at 9:55 AM on January 3, 2007

DEET DEET DOOT DEET DEET DOOT

MANY METAFILTER MEMBERS OLDER THAN 25 ARE OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT IS CURRENTLY COOL IN MUSIC. STOP. SOME DON'T EVEN READ PITCHFORK ON A REGULAR BASIS. STOP. STILL ANSWER QUESTIONS ASKING FOR HIP NEW MUSIC WITH SHAMEFULLY UNCOOL RECOMMENDATIONS. STOP

DEET DEET DOOT DEET DEET DOOT

THIS JUST IN: MEMBER THINKS HE HAS BETTER TASTE IN MUSIC THAN OTHER PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET. STOP. STARTS THREAD TO CONGRATULATE SELF. STOP.
posted by fishfucker at 9:56 AM on January 3, 2007 [6 favorites]

I wish I colud remember which Fiterite it was who pointed out that "Coldplay was the sound of Middle America losing the will to live."
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:57 AM on January 3, 2007

Hey, OP here. I'm really just trying to find out if there's anything that defines a young, BLACK teen's musical experience when he or she grows to find that pop music sucks - like I did when I found out there was the Smiths and the Cure back in '85. I thought they knew exactly what I was going though, which Madonna and George Michael didn't address. While those bands aren't a uniquely a white experience, I'd bet 95% of their following in the US at least were angsty white kids. The point was to see if there's something similar for black (oooh there's that word again) teens.

I'm not saying that music isn't unique to race, but history does show that the blues, jazz, R&B, soul, gospel, rap and so on have their origins in the black experience in the US. You'd be crazy to deny it.

Which is why I also find it fascinating that there aren't period revival bands (and if there are, then it's my fault for not looking hard enough). While not a huge underground thing, there are bands that emulate the 50s rockabilly style and the 60s mod kids have their own thing too (Northern Soul, I'm looking at you) Both scenes are totally white hipster dominated.

Where are the kids who hear Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters and decide they want to be bluesmen? Or hear Louis Jordan and start up a jump blues band? They have to exist somewhere, don't they?
posted by DonnieSticks at 10:00 AM on January 3, 2007

SOME DON'T EVEN READ PITCHFORK ON A REGULAR BASIS.

I'd be more worried about those who do read Pitchfork on a regular basis.
posted by cosmic osmo at 10:04 AM on January 3, 2007

Oh, and. This is still a stupid callout, caek, and here's the eleventybillionth reason why. You said in the thread: all the suggestions so far are frat-boy hip-hop (Jurrasic 5, I'm looking at you) or excrutiatingly middle-aged funk-soul

Which is not true at all. You are an expert Fratboy Ethnomuscologist, but I guess you're not familiar with, like, punk and stuff, but, yeah, it's not excruciatingly yadda yadda.

Also, absence of adolescent cool cachet aside, what the hell does it matter when an album was released? Beggars Banquet was just as awesome in 1968 as it was when I heard it in 1986.

(BTW, Donnie, I have often wondered why and lamented that there's never been a doo wop or motown revival. It'd probably be the dorkiest thing ever if there were. Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
posted by veronica sawyer at 10:04 AM on January 3, 2007

Look who's calling the kettle african-american.

I was once seriously admonished to use that "correct" phrase instead of the original by a sysop in an IRC chat back in mid-90s
posted by hal9k at 10:06 AM on January 3, 2007

No veronica, new = good, ALWAYS!!!!

the extra exclamation (extramation, if you will) points signify that I mean business.
posted by Mister_A at 10:07 AM on January 3, 2007

LISTENING? WHY, THAT BOY OUGHT TO BE OUT TAPDANCIN' FOR A LIVING BY NOW.

did i say that out loud? DOH! stupid brain!
posted by quonsar at 10:11 AM on January 3, 2007

the extra exclamation (extramation, if you will) points signify that I mean business.

I use commas for the same reason, Mister_A.

To quote the Roots, who, incidentally, I've booked for my baby shower, EITHER STAND TALL OR SIT THE FUCK DOWN.
posted by veronica sawyer at 10:12 AM on January 3, 2007

Intercourse this excrement, let's go wreck some other thread.
posted by Mister_A at 10:13 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

There's been plenty of "period revival" in hip-hop, but for obvious reasons, it doesn't come when black kids pick up slide guitars, but rather when they start sampling the stuff.

I'm by no means trying to speak authoritatively here, but I'm surprised nobody's mentioned old or recent Nas. His new single "Hip Hop is Dead" addresses some of these issues directly. And while you could argue Nas is "irrelevant" given the fact that he's been around so long, I think his many fans would disagree. (And he's certainly not the only person involved in this, but I purchased exactly three rap albums in 2006. I'm sure someone else here could fill in the blanks.)
posted by bardic at 10:13 AM on January 3, 2007

Ambrose, is that you?
posted by klangklangston at 10:14 AM on January 3, 2007

To quote the Roots, who, incidentally, I've booked for my baby shower

What? Is this like a spin-off of My Super-Sweet Sixteenth or something?
posted by bardic at 10:14 AM on January 3, 2007

I love veronica sawyer in a non-sexual non-creepy way.
posted by Mister_A at 10:16 AM on January 3, 2007

I love veronica sawyer in a non-sexual non-creepy way.

that's good, cuz i've got those bases covered.
posted by quonsar at 10:20 AM on January 3, 2007

Which is why I also find it fascinating that there aren't period revival bands (and if there are, then it's my fault for not looking hard enough). While not a huge underground thing, there are bands that emulate the 50s rockabilly style and the 60s mod kids have their own thing too

One of the Mp3 blogs I read is called Soul Sides that showcases some good older, newer, and revival black sounds. One new decent soul revival band that I bought through their recommendation was Nicole Willis. (And, I sincerely apologize: they are Finnish!)

For some great older soul mixes I highly recommend WFMU's Downtown Soulville, I listen to the show's copious archives weekly.
posted by dgaicun at 10:22 AM on January 3, 2007 [3 favorites]

And just following reviews of certain revival bands will likely bring similar new bands if you enjoy them:

I'm willing to go on record as saying that this among the best "nuevo-soul/funk" albums I've ever heard (a field that may seem small but actually covers a lot of ground including Sharon Jones, the Dap-Kings, The Whitehead Brothers, El Michels Affair, etc.
posted by dgaicun at 10:29 AM on January 3, 2007

There are an assload of neo-funk bands (who overlap with jam bands here). It's just that so few of them are any good.
posted by klangklangston at 10:31 AM on January 3, 2007

Hey put these recommendations in the Ask thread, willya?
posted by DonnieSticks at 10:31 AM on January 3, 2007

Mister_A, quonsar: I am flattered that you both appreciate my big-dick style.

(And, I sincerely apologize: they are Finnish!)

Aha, confirmation! Like I said in the askme thread, the Scandinavians, they live for this shit.

It's a shame that they're all suicidal drunks.
posted by veronica sawyer at 10:36 AM on January 3, 2007

"There are black people on Metafilter?!"

Oh lawdy, lock up the china and hide the white women!
posted by Kwanzaar at 10:42 AM on January 3, 2007

"There are black people on Metafilter?!"

Black people love us.^TM
posted by cortex at 10:50 AM on January 3, 2007

Oh lawdy, lock up the china and hide the white women!

That oughtta say "Oh lawdy, lock up the asia and hide the white women!"
posted by Mister_A at 10:52 AM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh lawdy, lock up the china and hide the white women!

Somewhere, in their secret liar, gay black men laugh with glee.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:00 AM on January 3, 2007

Tell me more about this secret liar, Brandon...
posted by Mister_A at 11:03 AM on January 3, 2007

Your mother's a lair.
posted by cortex at 11:15 AM on January 3, 2007

Wow. And I thought I was a pain in the butt about music.
posted by jonmc at 11:24 AM on January 3, 2007

Show me the secret milkshake.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:28 AM on January 3, 2007

Take me to your lizard.
posted by Mister_A at 11:29 AM on January 3, 2007

This thread is closed to new cornnuts.
posted by jefbla at 11:34 AM on January 3, 2007

I smell a hip-hop mixtape thread.
posted by ninjew at 11:45 AM on January 3, 2007

I really read this part as a separate question:


Is there an underground scene of bands that sing Doo-Wop or play Jump Blues, 60s Soul or 70s Funk (not all together)?

Because when put together with the original question, my brain turns into mush. I misread that part as "So do black teens like old-timey black people music, since they don't like new black people music?" I don't think that's a very generous reading of the question, but it sure felt that way to me for a minute there.

Therefore, I read the question as "Do you know any black teenagers who listen to non-top 40 music, and if so, what would it be?"
posted by mikeh at 11:47 AM on January 3, 2007

ND¢: I have no idea how my question about finance got dragged into this thread. But seeing as it has been: being Canadian is relevant because laws around investments and taxes (signficant financial-planning factors) vary according to what country your in. I don't want advice about american tax laws.

My comment in the actual music thread was just meant to highlight the fact that people who are interested in non-mainstream music are likely, by definition, to not all like the same music. And given that 'alternative music' is now considered a defined genre, I thought caek's original comment could use some discussion.

This place is ridiculous, I swear.
posted by Kololo at 11:58 AM on January 3, 2007

Saying that tax laws are different just because they are in different countries is totally unacceptable.
posted by ND¢ at 12:08 PM on January 3, 2007

Oh i get it. It was joke. Never mind. For some reason mefi turned me into a crazy person and i thought you were actually criticizing my music comment by citicizing my finance question.

Now i actually think that's pretty funny!

Sorry i was being so clueless!
posted by Kololo at 12:14 PM on January 3, 2007

Its coolio. Speaking of Coolio, did anyone suggest him?
posted by ND¢ at 12:17 PM on January 3, 2007

Someone today said I reminded them of Kid 'n Play. Not sure which one.
posted by yeti at 12:35 PM on January 3, 2007

How about this?
posted by Eideteker at 12:43 PM on January 3, 2007

<>
posted by fixedgear at 12:44 PM on January 3, 2007

For some reason mefi turned me into a crazy person

Is anyone else thinking "movie rights"?
posted by languagehat at 12:47 PM on January 3, 2007

"It Came From The Grey"
posted by flashboy at 12:59 PM on January 3, 2007

Someone today said I reminded them of Kid 'n Play. Not sure which one.

The middle one.
posted by iconomy at 1:00 PM on January 3, 2007

What do young, black and alternative kids listen to?

"To Be Young, Gifted and Black" by Nina Simone. DUH.
posted by Milkman Dan at 1:26 PM on January 3, 2007

white people wear hornrims like this, black people wear hornrims like that

please let that be the death of this goddamn meme
posted by melissa may at 1:35 PM on January 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

Milkman Dan--That's just the song I was thinking of; I've been humming it to myself all day. Bob and Marcia also have a reggae version that's slightly hipper.
posted by OmieWise at 1:41 PM on January 3, 2007

Rats done bit up my sealed copy of Ultramagnetic MCs "Critical Beatdown" and WHITEYS ON THE MOON!
posted by veronica sawyer at 1:43 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

There. Now it's dead.
posted by veronica sawyer at 1:44 PM on January 3, 2007

to be thirty-something, mediocre & white
sitting on your ass guzzling beer all night
to be thirty-something, mediocre & white
grab me another Bud and shut up, all right?

when you feel really drunk and your feets they has stunk
there's a great truth you should see
when you're thirty-something, mediocre & white
the only real reason to get off the couch is to pee...
posted by jonmc at 1:49 PM on January 3, 2007

I suspect your attitude has more to do with some kind of holier-than-thou music snob elitism combined with some misguided political correctness than actual interest in answering the question.

Nope. I just think most of the suggestions in the thread demonstrate total ignorance of teenagers of any race. A lot of the respondents, ignoring the OP's pointer toward various specific genres (none of which included hip hop) saw the word "black" and so restricted their suggestions to the decade-old backpack hip hop in their own CD collections. As a result, their suggestions are risible. I'm not a music snob, but I'm not naive enough to think that teenagers aren't. I couldn't care less about political correctness.

Also, absence of adolescent cool cachet aside

Which is of course the natural course of action when talking about the tastes of teenagers.
posted by caek at 1:53 PM on January 3, 2007

(as to the original question: I am a music geek for a living kind of (meaning I make kind of a living, I am definitely a music geek). So are all my co-workers, roughly 50% of whom are black. They're tastes run as big a gamut as their caucasian counterparts, in my experience.)
posted by jonmc at 1:54 PM on January 3, 2007

Well, everybody knows they're musical people.

/kills self
posted by bardic at 2:02 PM on January 3, 2007

jonmc, tell us more about black people. Really, your insights are quite valuable and might resolve the deep questions in this thread.

And yeah, that green thread is a comedy of errors. And really, what black people listen to Jurassic 5? That's a fucking urban myth. And, come to think of it, what self-respecting black kid is 'angsty'? And takes music advice from some dork who thinks Doo-Wop might be too old? Really, the whole thing sounds like a bad NBC pilot.
posted by nixerman at 2:57 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

I was regularly mocked for being Portuguese ...
You know that wasn't because you're Portugese, right?
posted by dg at 2:58 PM on January 3, 2007

A lot of the respondents, ignoring the OP's pointer toward various specific genres (none of which included hip hop) saw the word "black" and so restricted their suggestions to the decade-old backpack hip hop in their own CD collections.

caek, look at the tags on that thread: althiphop, altRB. DonnieStiks also asked about Rhymesayers.
posted by hydrophonic at 3:00 PM on January 3, 2007

For some reason mefi turned me into a crazy person

I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind on mefi, there was something so pleasant about that place... even your emotions had an echo in so much space!
posted by pleeker at 3:19 PM on January 3, 2007

...I remember when I lost my mind on mefi...

Have you tried using the search page to find it?
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:37 PM on January 3, 2007

I just think most of the suggestions in the thread demonstrate total ignorance of teenagers of any race.

Then why wasn't that what you wrote to start this thread?
posted by mediareport at 3:44 PM on January 3, 2007

nixerman, with all due respect, go peddle your papers. There's not a damned thing wrong with my answer, but if you want to take another opportunity to make me the poster boy for What's Wrong With The World so you can feel big, go right ahead.

Hell, the initial question was kind of racist if you ask me. It's not like black people have meetings where they all decide what to listen to.

And, come to think of it, what self-respecting black kid is 'angsty'?

What, you've never heard of 'Angsta Rap?'

(seriously, you accuse me of having no insight and throw out a cliche like that. Irony, it's good for the blood)
posted by jonmc at 3:52 PM on January 3, 2007

See, see what happens when you don't listen to stuff released in the past calendar year?
posted by pleeker at 4:01 PM on January 3, 2007

Devils Rancher : I wish I colud remember which Fiterite it was who pointed out that "Coldplay was the sound of Middle America losing the will to live."

It was dodgygeezer.
posted by quin at 4:06 PM on January 3, 2007

Old starts at 37.

"Old" is when you get your first pair of bifocals.
"Old" is when you no longer bend over to pick up pennies when you see them, because it hurts too much and pennies aren't that valuable.
"Old" is when cute girls call you "Sir" or "Mister".
"Old" is when you can't even name current music genres, let alone specific groups in those genres.
"Old" is when you start hearing your favorite pop music in elevators.
"Old" is when you start to obsess on the moral failings of the younger generation.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 4:06 PM on January 3, 2007

And one more:

"Old" is when you finally realize just how stupid you were when you were "young".
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 4:08 PM on January 3, 2007

"Old" is when cute girls call you "Sir" or "Mister".

Even when you're wearing a gimp mask and they're saying "do you like the sting of my whips, sir?"
posted by jonmc at 4:16 PM on January 3, 2007

Even when you're wearing a gimp mask and they're saying "do you like the sting of my whips, sir slave?"

They never call me 'sir'.
posted by quin at 4:20 PM on January 3, 2007

Ooh! Ooh! Tell me more about that, Jonmc!
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 4:26 PM on January 3, 2007

No.

Suffer, sir, Suffer!

(ok, I just gave myself a mental image of Marcie playing top to Peppermint Patty in bondage gear. I need to lie down)
posted by jonmc at 4:39 PM on January 3, 2007

And, come to think of it, what self-respecting black kid is 'angsty'?

What, you've never heard of 'Angsta Rap?'

That'll literally have me chuckling for hours. Figuratively speaking, of course.
posted by yeti at 5:28 PM on January 3, 2007

"Old" is when you think up excuses for thinking that you're not "old".
posted by blue_beetle at 5:40 PM on January 3, 2007

It was dodgygeezer.

Thanks, Quin. That's one of my top three MF comments ever. I've hated Coldplay since way before I even knew it was indie-hip to hate Coldplay. I just heard this bad sound one day, and hated it. It was a month before I found out who they even were. People were raving about this new sliced bread stuff, and oh, there it was again, that bad sound.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:54 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

I don't understand the virulence toward Coldplay. They're mild, sure, but they're hardly bad. Is it that they're mild and yet very famous?
posted by cortex at 6:10 PM on January 3, 2007

I don't understand it, either. They aren't good enough to particularly like and not bad enough to particularly hate, just sort of "meh". Some people's hate threshold is set so low that everything is either great or awful and I assume that these are the people who hate Coldplay.

*shrug*
posted by dg at 6:18 PM on January 3, 2007

Mostly what I hate is when mediocrity is presented as excellence. We all know that the Backstreet Boys are mediocre, and none over the age of 12 ever pretended otherwise. But we've got the best minds in the industry holding up Coldplay's trite banalities as The Most Moving, Personal Insightful Lyrics Ever, when it just sounds like a cut-and-paste rhyming dictionary exercise to me. And musically, they epitomize meh. Havent there been enough DING, DONG, DING, DONG piano songs, yet? It sets me on edge when otherwise intelligent people say "Wow! This wonderbread tastes really GOOD!"

Yes, I do get overly passionate about music. And my favorite band still sucks.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:27 PM on January 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

For the record, wonderbread is really fucking great sometimes. Just some white fluffy bread, some mayo, a couple slices of deli ham and some cheddar. Goddam.

But yeah, I'd laugh if someone started a fancy restaurant around that idea.
posted by cortex at 6:33 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

Mostly what I hate is when mediocrity is presented as excellence

what if it's excellence in mediocrity?
posted by jonmc at 6:42 PM on January 3, 2007

I'm so old, I don't even kow who Coldplay are.
posted by timeistight at 6:54 PM on January 3, 2007

I'm so old, I don't even kow who Coldplay are.

who what Coldplay are is.

These days Coldplay generally references various sexual acts performed at low temperatures, though the term originated at a special weekend 'conference' held at The Ice Hotel a few years ago. The numbing effects of cold surfaces combined with the stimulation of sexual intercourse cancel each other out and the participants are left only with the pure sloshing sounds of sweat, lovesludge, and icemelt being pushed around by bare skin. It's catching on.
posted by carsonb at 7:07 PM on January 3, 2007

Just for the record, I was not offended by the thread, even after someone explained what was going on in it -- I have no idea who any of these groups are.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:22 PM on January 3, 2007

"Coldplay was the sound of Middle America losing the will to live."

Ok, Kids: Joanna Newsom is the sound of _(place name)_ _(verb-ing)_
posted by everichon at 7:23 PM on January 3, 2007

what if it's excellence in mediocrity? I can spare a little hate for that too, so long as there's some left over for sophistry in general.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:24 PM on January 3, 2007

the pure sloshing sounds of sweat, lovesludge, and icemelt being pushed around by bare skin

i have that cd.
posted by quonsar at 7:26 PM on January 3, 2007

Joanna Newsom is the sound of honors dorms collectively orgasming.
posted by carsonb at 7:30 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

I thought all the yoofs were now listening to M Ward. And isn't M Ward just the latest incarnation of Kool Keith?
posted by everichon at 7:44 PM on January 3, 2007

I'm going to bed now. It's gettin' on 8.
posted by everichon at 7:44 PM on January 3, 2007

I went to college
I'm even more stupid herb
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:05 PM on January 3, 2007

Hell, the initial question was kind of racist if you ask me.

Really? I'm not sure I even know how to respond to that. Pretty sad that just asking a question I want to know more about makes me a kind of racist. Not like I asked where the local Klan meeting is.

I'm not insinuating there's a secret club, but trends become trends because of a specific group of people do their own thing and it catches on and were there alterna-rap/hiphop/R&B bands, I would expect them to sprout from a disdain for what's popular in their community. Like punk growing out of hating bombastic 70s shit rock.

Had I just asked young and alternative, the answers would have been wildly different but with a general consenus pointing to some sort of Bright Eyes or whatever the kids listen to because everyone would have assumed I meant white and we wouldn't be having this discussion. But I did specify race and despite all the responses in the Ask thread, I still don't have a good feeling as to what the answer is if there is one. Maybe it's that the world of music feels a lot more genre-fied than it used to be so there isn't a solid answer anymore. Or maybe I'm a moron who still thinks there are cultural differences between races that extend into music. But the last time I looked, there weren't a whole lotta Charlie Prides playing the Opry these days or winning CMA awards.
posted by DonnieSticks at 8:12 PM on January 3, 2007

fandango_matt, i know it's difficult, but stay out of my bowels. It's an inhospitable place.
posted by jonmc at 8:28 PM on January 3, 2007

Really? I'm not sure I even know how to respond to that. Pretty sad that just asking a question I want to know more about makes me a kind of racist

I'm not saying you are a racist (anymore than anyone is), I'm saying that the underlying assumption that a black person who's into to music would automatically approach his passion in some fundamentally different way.

You may not believe this but for a lot of my life, I've thought aboutthese kind of things a lot. But what I've seen from music geek friends of mine who are black is this: it's all good (good being defined by individual idiosyncrasies). I actually spent an hour in a bar arguing Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page with a black musician. He was the one arguing the pro-Page position. The only conclusion I can come to is that to people who first and foremost care about the music, the old barriers mean nothing.
posted by jonmc at 8:38 PM on January 3, 2007

I demand--DEMAND I TELL YOU--that Matt and Jess implement my January contest idea. We already have 3 or 4 strong candidates and it is only the third!
posted by LarryC at 8:45 PM on January 3, 2007

(what I mean is this: someone who cares enough about music to self-label as 'alternative' is going to ignore the societal barriers in search of good tunes, as well they should)
posted by jonmc at 8:47 PM on January 3, 2007

who what Coldplay are is

carsonb is a vicious racist! He hates British English! Kill the pig! Drink its blood!
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:06 PM on January 3, 2007

Everything sounds like Coldplay now.com
Makes it pretty clear why people don't like coldplay.
posted by jouke at 9:09 PM on January 3, 2007

This whole discussion reminds me of the time a friend insisted on pointing out the only black person (for someone who had said "who's Mike? or some such) in a sea of whiteys as "the guy in the red sweater."

On a related note, this thread has made me realise that I should spend more time on metatalk. This whole thing is seriously amusing!
posted by Kololo at 9:29 PM on January 3, 2007

Joanna Newsom is the sound of me screaming at Minnesota Public Radio to shut the fuck up, for Christ's sake.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:31 PM on January 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

And thanks for that AskMe Kololo, please follow up with what changes you've implemented, what works for you, I'm in pretty much the same boat as you when it comes to that stuff.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:34 PM on January 3, 2007

jonmc : I actually spent an hour in a bar arguing Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page with a black musician. He was the one arguing the pro-Page position.

You were on the right side of that argument. Hendrix was way better than Page.

Kololo : This whole discussion reminds me of the time a friend insisted on pointing out the only black person (for someone who had said "who's Mike? or some such) in a sea of whiteys as "the guy in the red sweater."

Well that's just stupid. (The situation you describe, not your comment.) The company I work for is mostly black and several of the departments have a fairly high turn over rate so there are constantly new people cycling on and off the floor. When any of my coworkers (black, white or otherwise) describe someone they all use the same system:

"Janice? Yeah, I know her. Black lady. About this tall [holds up hand to appropriate hight], Big hairstyle, kinda skinny. I think she sits over there. [points]"

We use this kind of description because there might be a skinny white woman with big hair that sits in the same area. It's a relevant detail not a racist one. Ignoring the fact that people are different color accomplishes nothing. It may help ease the conscience of people who suffer white guilt or something, but all it really does is make it harder for us to find that chick named Janice.

Also, the term African-American is only used ironically or in jest. White people are 'white', black people are 'black', and people from south of the American equator who speak Spanish are 'Hispanic' (or Mexican if you feel like trading blows with your Puerto Rican friends :)

African-American went out the window when we employed several Africans who were white, and a Australian gentleman of aboriginal descent, who rightly bristled at the idea of being politically correctly called Australian-African-American (or some such nonsense.) Because that shit just didn't make any sense.
posted by quin at 10:05 PM on January 3, 2007

If anyone ever asks what young, hip, half-black half-Jewish kids listen to, I'm going to answer Lenny Kravitz.

I think you mean half-hip. And I'm being generous.

I actually spent an hour in a bar arguing Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page with a black musician. He was the one arguing the pro-Page position.

Well, he was just stupid.

Unless perhaps this "pro-Page position" is referring to the kind of *position* that Prince is likely to write a song about?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:04 AM on January 4, 2007

caek, look at the tags on that thread: althiphop, altRB. DonnieStiks also asked about Rhymesayers.

Sorry, I didn't spot the tags (really). So I guess what the OP actually wanted to know is, "what are some examples of alternative hip hop/RnB?" not, "what alt.music do black teens listen to?" (which is the short title he gave his question).

Then why wasn't that what you wrote to start this thread?

I wanted to stay on topic.
posted by caek at 3:42 AM on January 4, 2007

I wanted to stay on topic.

Meh. Staying on topic is overrated.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:53 AM on January 4, 2007

It was dodgygeezer.

Yes, but note he didn't say "the sound of Middle America losing the will to live", but the "the sound of young suburban couples losing the will to live", what with dodgygeezer being in the UK, and Coldplay themselves being British [briefly considers fake rant against Americans appropriating everything because you think everything revolves around you imperialists egomaniac greedy bastards but abandons ill conceived plan due to suspicions someone would take it seriously and call me a racist].
posted by pleeker at 4:30 AM on January 4, 2007

Pleeker, it was a paraphrase on my part, as I'd lost track of the original quote and was recreating it post-office-style, from memory. I stand corrected. Racist.

I made a point as a father to never mention skin color or ethnicity to my daughter ever. When she was in first grade, she came home one day and said "We've got a new kid in the class -- he's a Mexican!" I said how do you know that? and she said "He said he just moved here from Mexico -- duh!" Another time she was describing a friend from school, and when I asked her what he looked like, she said "He's got really, really curly hair." Two of my proudest moments as a parent. It is possible to raise kids without skin color becoming a factor in their perception of others. (Not that it's not useful as a descriptor when pointing out the white guy in the lineup.)
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:00 AM on January 4, 2007

Cinemax recently had a 'Star Wars' marathon where they used Coldplay as montage music. Disgusting.

Watch: The Overly Dramatic Coldplay Montage Phenom.
posted by yeti at 5:51 AM on January 4, 2007

briefly considers fake rant against Americans... abandons ill conceived plan due to suspicions someone would take it seriously and call me a racist.

But Americans aren't a race, they're a nationality.

Granted, that may not stop some knucklehead from calling you a racist...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:12 AM on January 4, 2007

I actually spent an hour in a bar arguing Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page with a black musician. He was the one arguing the pro-Page position.

Well, he was just stupid.

Well, the guy in question was a guitarist in a metal band, so maybe that made the difference for him. (and just for the record, he also liked Hendrix, and I'm a huge Jimmy Page fan, too). The central point is that people like what they like, regardless of race and we shouldn't treat black people as if they're Magic Oracles Of Hip. Positive stereotypes are still stereotypes.

(although back when I worked in a convenience store in New Haven, one day a black guy came in to buy cigarettes, took off his Walkman phones and from them blared 'Don't Stop Believin'.' I admit that was an odd moment.)
posted by jonmc at 6:14 AM on January 4, 2007

we shouldn't treat black people as if they're Magic Oracles Of Hip

Wrong. We should treat ALL black people as if they're Magic Oracles Of Hip. Because they are. Except for that guy you talked to in the bar. Like I said, he's just stupid.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:25 AM on January 4, 2007

Why would the fact anyone was listening to "Don't Stop Believin'" cause an odd moment? And is it too late to recommend the Poor Righteous Teachers?
posted by yerfatma at 6:47 AM on January 4, 2007

caek : "since alternative people are usually defined by their listening to alternative music"

I thought they were defined by having non-normative sexual preferences.
posted by Bugbread at 6:56 AM on January 4, 2007

Why would the fact anyone was listening to "Don't Stop Believin'" cause an odd moment?

It always causes an odd moment for me when I puzzle over the idea of human beings willingly exposing themselves to that horrible noise. I don't care how much melanin you've got -- that song means intervention time.

But to further the derail, should we all really be hating on We Built This City?
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:27 AM on January 4, 2007

Devils Rancher: you will get my copy of Escape when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
posted by jonmc at 7:36 AM on January 4, 2007

I think Devils Rancher was once a small town girl who lived in a lonely world, and he's angry at Steve Perry for exposing his secret.
posted by Kwine at 8:08 AM on January 4, 2007

The problem, more or less, is that at some point he stopped believing. Which is a shame, because I would have been forever his. Faithfully.
posted by cortex at 8:18 AM on January 4, 2007

*falls stone in love with cortex. offers self, anyway you want it. wonders who's crying now.*
posted by jonmc at 8:20 AM on January 4, 2007

Why would the fact anyone was listening to "Don't Stop Believin'" cause an odd moment?

It always causes an odd moment for me when I puzzle over the idea of human beings willingly exposing themselves to that horrible noise.

I really like that song. Especially in those old videos where Steve Perry's got that gorgeous hair.
posted by JanetLand at 8:56 AM on January 4, 2007

Okay, okay, Ross Valory nearly saves that one with a really sweet bass line. But yeah, I took the midnight train goin' anywhere, and I really don't appreciate them spreading it around like that.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:01 AM on January 4, 2007

The problem, more or less, is that at some point he stopped believing. Which is a shame, because I would have been forever his. Faithfully.

Oh, Cortex, For a smile we can share the night. I'll roll the dice,
Just one more time.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:06 AM on January 4, 2007

Someday love will find you all, and when it does it'll be hopping mad.
posted by Mister_A at 9:27 AM on January 4, 2007

yeti, that was lovely, the video montage, very dramatic. I got so emotional over the peanut butter sandwich *sniff*

Anyway, try and keep up people, Coldplay hating is old, now supposedly everything sounds like the Libertines, besides you're only allowed to hate bands that released their debut album in the past year. Two, max.
posted by pleeker at 9:37 AM on January 4, 2007

>>I actually spent an hour in a bar arguing Jimi Hendrix vs. Jimmy Page with a black musician. He was the one arguing the pro-Page position.

>Well, he was just stupid.

Depends what you were arguing about. Hendrix wins the guitars, songwriter, massive influence categories but I'd vote for Page in the band leader or record producer categories.

Plus I've always felt that staying alive was a sadly underrated talent for musicians.
posted by timeistight at 9:38 AM on January 4, 2007

Don't Stop Believin

This is why I hate the internet, Americans, metafilter, youtube, you all. I had been living in blissful ignorance up until five minutes ago but because I am too curious, I had to look that up and the second result was a youtube video. I know exactly what 'odd moment' means now.
posted by pleeker at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2007

How out of touch do you have to be to think that cool teenagers of any race listen to Jurrasic 5, Blackalicious, Portishead, Handsome Boy and The Roots? 1997 called.

Let me help you out here. Jurassic 5 released a single in 1995, and an EP in 1997. Despite critical acclaim, they languished in relative obscurity and struggled to sell records until, well, after 1997. J5 made their mark while touring colleges (something a lot of bands do before they make it). They did not release an LP until 2000.

Blackalicious released a single in 1994, and their first EP in 1997. They also did not release an LP until 2000.

Handsome Boy Modeling School debuted in 1999, but it should be known that they immediately called 1997 to apologize for being too late for your joke.

Portishead released a vast majority of its work between 1994 and 1997. For someone so hip as to be listening to Handsome Boy two years before they even formed, you'll have to give up an equal amount of scene points for getting on the Portishead bus so late.

Your premise is shaky at best. That hipsters only proclaim to listen to music released in the last thirty seconds is probably true. The fact is that most people listen to music, whether they are card carrying members of the scene or not, that is 31 seconds old or older. I don't doubt if you followed every music rag there is that you did know of J5 and Blackalicious in 1997, but they weren't cool with the derogatory label of your choice, with the exception of Portishead, until after 1997, funny man.

Not that I was claiming these groups were right for the indie set, anyhow. They are just good groups that someone who tired of pop should give a listen to. I know you came out of the womb with an MP3 player with Handsome Boy's first LP on it, but we're not all so lucky.

I know, my favorite noun adjective. Don't take my ire seriously.
posted by sequential at 10:32 AM on January 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Ahem. Favorite noun verb.

Meanwhile, I like that we're ragging so viciously on passably good alt-hip-hop while the parade of Journey gets a free pass.

Born and raised in sooooouth Detroit...
posted by Mayor West at 11:20 AM on January 4, 2007

Mayor -- why no one takes up my We Built This City challenge is beyond me, and you know Starship & Journey are kind of the Siamese twins of bad SF 80's "rock." No freee pass here. I'm full-on hating Steve Perry with at least several fibers of my being.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:24 AM on January 4, 2007

Ahem. Favorite noun verb.

Shamed! I feel so ashamed. I take back everything I've ever said.
posted by sequential at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2007

As I said earlier, 1997 was an exaggerated average not informed by the staggering Wikipedia skills you display.

But the point you've missed is that none of these backback and trip hop acts are cool among teenagers who are into non-chart music in 2007. This is, y'know, what the question asked. The trendier-than-thou attitude you're ascribing to me and getting so worked up about is entirely in your imagination.

Although, having bought their debut album when it came out in 1998 (not 2000), I do happen to think that Jurrasic 5 are indefensibly bad.
posted by caek at 11:35 AM on January 4, 2007

Why are the two people in the next apartment arguing unintelligibly at 3 am? Because they're Asia.
posted by Mister_A at 12:24 PM on January 4, 2007

But the point you've missed is that none of these backback and trip hop acts are cool among teenagers who are into non-chart music in 2007

I disagree entirely, but don't feel like it would be productive to argue the point. My anecdotal evidence says otherwise. Yes, I know a bunch of teenagers who are into bands that probably qualify in your taxonomy of the world as "teenagers who are into non-chart music in 2007". They listen to things like Man Man, Matt Pond PA, MF Doom, The Knife, TV On The Radio, Scissor Sisters, etc. As a matter of fact, one of them just made me a mix CD that included, of all things, a J5 song and Steely Dan song. I accept that your anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise.

I was not saying that these acts are the bees knees with the trendy set, but I submit that informed music listeners would appreciate listening to what was underground, indie, and alternative in earlier generations. Take modern indie kids, it's not like they disavow bands like the Smiths, the Pixies, the New York Dolls, or [Insert Grandpa Hipster Bands Here].

The trendier-than-thou attitude you're ascribing to me and getting so worked up about is entirely in your imagination.

For the sake of humor, which you've clearly missed.

Although, having bought their debut album when it came out in 1998 (not 2000), I do happen to think that Jurrasic 5 are indefensibly bad.

I stand corrected. I had forgotten about the Jurassic 5 LP. I was referring to Quality Control, released Jun 6, 2000. Jurassic 5, their first EP, was released Oct 13, 1997. That you don't like J5 is fine, but that other people liked it, including critics hailing it as a ground breaking album, is not really being argued here. If an indie kid wants to listen to underground hip hop, J5 is a safe choice, if not a good choice. Will they like it? Who knows. It's worth giving a listen, though, and that was my point.
posted by sequential at 12:25 PM on January 4, 2007

Shorter self: You're right, caek. J5 isn't cool as you've described it. That doesn't mean the target audience for the question wouldn't find them interesting. Better?
posted by sequential at 12:58 PM on January 4, 2007

Wow. Hip teenagers sure have changed. When I was a young sprog, hip teenagers listened to about 50% music that had just come out, and 50% music from the previous decade. Part and parcel of being a "cool alternative" guy was liking bands which other people knew, "but only their hard to find, entirely unknown first album, before they sold out".
posted by Bugbread at 2:24 PM on January 4, 2007

Is this thread still going on? Come on people, time to leave. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
posted by Plutor at 2:31 PM on January 4, 2007

Is this thread still going on? Come on people, time to leave. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

dude! Can you totally play "Closing Time?" It's got a DING, DONG, DING, DONG piano part too! Alright, man! No need to push. Sheesh.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:44 PM on January 4, 2007