Too much hate, too much judgment April 22, 2007 11:11 PM   Subscribe

Why are people being so judgmental in this AskMe question? Just because there is a celebrity connection? Other people like myself who have legitimate stories to share are being turned off by the sheer abrasiveness and lack of empathy displayed inside.
posted by divabat to Etiquette/Policy at 11:11 PM (117 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

I don't know if it's the same way in Australia, but in America that term is routinely thrown out when celebrities party too hard and have to go to the hospital. This causes people to get pretty cynical about the term.
posted by puke & cry at 11:19 PM on April 22, 2007


Or basically what everyone else said in that askmetafilter thread.
posted by puke & cry at 11:20 PM on April 22, 2007


I've had a Polish builder working at my house for the last few months. He's seperated from his wife and family, living in a single room without cooking or laundry facilities. His standard day is nine hours long, but he often works as long as twelve or thirteen hours, depending on what needs doing. His only time off is Sunday, when he works a half day. He's now 32, and has lived this way since he was 17 or 18. Much of his work is hard, manual labour -- tiling, plastering, bricklaying, etc.

He doesn't suffer from 'exhaustion'. Millions all over the world live like this. In light of that fact, it's hard to have much sympathy for those people for whom life is one long whirl of parties and clubbing.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:28 PM on April 22, 2007 [4 favorites]


I'm coming from more of a Malaysian perspective, which actually has a bigger stigma against it because you're expected to work through any illness or pain. Orb's American and she felt the same way.

Even if it's a term used by celebrities often, who are we to judge and assume that they only say it because they "party too hard"? As Orb mentioned too, a lot of times it can be code for something else that they don't want the media to harp on about - because they're savvy enough to realize the sort of judgment they'd get anyhow.
posted by divabat at 11:28 PM on April 22, 2007


on post:

PeterMcDermott: Great! Not all of us are able to work constantly that hard without tiring ourselves out to the point of hospital! But thanks for once again showing judgment on those of us who DO get hospitalized for exhaustion and haven't been involved in parties. Because obviously if you are ever in hospital for exhaustion, you MUST be a party-holic, and everything you say otherwise is a lie...oh yes.
posted by divabat at 11:31 PM on April 22, 2007


See, I wouldn't think of anything like your story when imagining 'hospitalised with exhaustion': you had flu, or whatever else. Anything that can be treated with antibiotics is clearly not fully described by 'exhaustion'. I would be surprised if anybody treating you would have said you were there for 'exhaustion'. You got sick. It was exacerbated by not looking after yourself properly, for whatever good/bad reason and eventually you were sick enough to need hospitalisation (this applies equally to Orb). Wearing yourself out was a contributing factor of the sickness, but it is not a satisfactory description of it.

As to lack of empathy: running around organising student clubs until you collapse, twice, indicates a lack of healthy decision making and/or an atypically frail physique, and in your story it comes across more as the first one. To rephrase: you sound like you acted stupidly. That doesn't encourage empathy.

Anyway, I tend to agree with Orb's final point where she says that in celebrity types it's probably a euphemism for 'none of your business' and may cover anything.
posted by jacalata at 11:36 PM on April 22, 2007 [1 favorite]


That question spilled over into a thread here? I'm about to be hospitalized for boredom.
posted by hutta at 11:43 PM on April 22, 2007


Really, the problem is that you're putting "hospitalized for" in front of something that people don't typically associate with needing medical attention.

I was hospitalized for the flu this year. For the freaking flu. I know it kills people, and I know it was only after 18 hours of puking and getting delirious that I admitted I was in serious trouble and asked to be taken, but I still realize it sounds silly to most people. I was at a place that treats gunshot wounds (the guy in the bed next to be had been shot in the leg) for something that is typically treated with chicken soup. If I were a celebrity, it would sound even sillier.

Still, I felt it was medically necessary at the time, and the doctors didn't suggest otherwise. That doesn't change how it seems to laypeople, though.
posted by hutta at 11:50 PM on April 22, 2007


I've had a Polish builder working at my house for the last few months. He's seperated from his wife and family, living in a single room without cooking or laundry facilities. His standard day is nine hours long, but he often works as long as twelve or thirteen hours, depending on what needs doing. His only time off is Sunday, when he works a half day. He's now 32, and has lived this way since he was 17 or 18. Much of his work is hard, manual labour -- tiling, plastering, bricklaying, etc.

He doesn't suffer from 'exhaustion'. Millions all over the world live like this. In light of that fact, it's hard to have much sympathy for those people for whom life is one long whirl of parties and clubbing.


Are you one of those annoying people that says "Hey, man, people in Africa don't even have clean drinking water" whenever someone has any sort of emotional distress in their life?

If so, knock it off. That shit gets on my nerves (and, yes, I realize that some people are probably born without nerves, and I should be happy to have nerves for you to get on).
posted by The God Complex at 11:51 PM on April 22, 2007 [8 favorites]


(and, yes, I realize that some people are probably born without nerves, and I should be happy to have nerves for you to get on)

There are nerveless children in (insert under-developed country here) who would be HAPPY to have your last nerve!
posted by amyms at 11:55 PM on April 22, 2007 [2 favorites]


As to lack of empathy: running around organising student clubs until you collapse, twice, indicates a lack of healthy decision making and/or an atypically frail physique, and in your story it comes across more as the first one. To rephrase: you sound like you acted stupidly. That doesn't encourage empathy.

Yeah, I don't have empathy for people that, owing to a variety of emotional/psychological issues make poor choices. Those people are fuckin' stupid! Why don't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

In fact, when I sense someone is seeking empathy from me, I do a fairly thorough "Empathy Diagnostic" to ascertain whether this person passes the RSH:NTF test (Random Shit Happened: Not Their Fault). This includes a variety of maladies such as cancer, provided they don't live too near to power lines or use a cell phone in excess of an hour a day. If they pass this test though, dude, I pretty much open up an empathy factory and I just start sweat-shopping out the empathy until they're pretty much drowning in it.
posted by The God Complex at 11:57 PM on April 22, 2007 [12 favorites]


I think some (maybe all) of the comments here are misusing the word 'empathy'. Empathy is the ability to identify with and understand anothers situation. Sympathy is compassion or commiseration* for their situation. I think most people mean sympathy, including myself. (I also find it difficult to empathise with it, which makes it harder to feel sympathy, but that's not what I said).

*all definitions cribbed from answers.com
posted by jacalata at 12:07 AM on April 23, 2007


The God Complex when you say: Are you one of those annoying people that says "Hey, man, people in Africa don't even have clean drinking water" whenever someone has any sort of emotional distress in their life?

If so, knock it off. That shit gets on my nerves (and, yes, I realize that some people are probably born without nerves, and I should be happy to have nerves for you to get on).


I am thinking you are one of the Old Testament type of complexes, huh - understanding can be a wonderful thing.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 12:46 AM on April 23, 2007


To rephrase: you sound like you acted stupidly. That doesn't encourage empathy.

That's an easy call to make after the fact, but you're basing your assessment entirely on the fact that she actually did end up collapsing. We don't have any information to evaluate the wisdom of her decisions ex ante. A lot of good choices end in disaster, after all. You probably think you're viewing this situation rationally, but you're just failing to make the extremely basic distinction between ex ante and ex post perspectives.

To rephrase: you sound stupid.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:59 AM on April 23, 2007


I'm really far too exhausted to answer this question. Sorry.
posted by miss lynnster at 1:04 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


Why are people being so judgmental in this AskMe question?

"Because it's MetaFilter" is the most likely answer. If you want hand-holding and backrubs, you'd be better off elsewhere.
posted by cmonkey at 2:05 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


Jealousy breeds judgment. There are many of us who wish we could have been hospitalized for exhaustion. We are jealous of those of you who have slightly less strong constitutions and actually show physical signs of exhaustion, i.e. passing out, etc. sufficient to merit hospitalization.

In our eyes, being hospitalized for exhaustion is akin to a free (you obviously have insurance - anyone who was uninsured and asking to be hospitalized for exhaustion would be booted out of the hospital so fast they'd see stars) several-day vacation wherein you're required to do absolutely nothing, have all your meals prepared for you and your bedsheets changed, and get to watch all the TV you like and sleep as much as you desire.

It's similar, as I see it, to a depressed person's wish for some physical manifestation of their illness. That was one of the (many) reasons I took up cutting - that if I had physical scars to show for my internal pain, it would be legitimized in a way that it hadn't been before. Having a hospitalization on your "resume" is somewhat the same thing - your pain and exhaustion is legitimized, whereas the billions of us who also work very hard, and are very often exhausted beyond belief, have no such recognition, and are expected to keep on working as always.

Am I jealous of you, divabat, and the celebrities who have gone through this (whether legitimately or as a cover-up for detox/etc.)?

Oh yeah.
posted by po at 2:12 AM on April 23, 2007 [3 favorites]


(okay, so a note after going back to the question - I hadn't read Orb's post before... I don't really classify "exhaustion" in with "being sick as a dog." If you're sick and the run-down state of your body makes it worse, that's not exhaustion. That's a virus with a very very easy host. Different. Also, admittable-to-hospital-without-insurance.

Also, I want to say that I don't harbor any hate toward anyone this is directed at, and didn't mean to come across as though I do in my previous. Just trying to illustrate where we all come from.

I've worked 100+ hour weeks, doing hard physical labor, before, at under $2 an hour. I've been weak enough to be unable to get out of bed - but was then forced to anyway, and go back to work. I've spent entire weekends asleep, when I've had the opportunity for two-day weekends. My record is 27 hours asleep at a stretch without once opening my eyes. I've lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks because of being unable to eat and having no appetite or energy to prepare food.

I've been there. Trust me, I -know- what it's like to be exhausted. But as I say, there's jealousy involved that yours and others' is "legitimate," whereas I never had the convenient flu bug at the "right" time to knock me out and send me to the hospital to get my stamp of approval. And I think that's how most of us who haven't been hospitalized feel.)

posted by po at 2:36 AM on April 23, 2007


STOP SAYING "HOSPITALIZED". YOU WENT TO HOSPITAL. YOU WERE ADMITTED TO HOSPITAL. BUT YOU WERE NOT "HOSPITALIZED". HOLY SWEET JESUS FUCK.
posted by reklaw at 3:25 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


You know, I had really long response typed up, but really what's the point? I don't have to defend myself to anyone here, and considering the level of hostility, I feel no compulsion to share any more personal information with anyone here. Think what you want. Obviously divabat and I are either wimpy little self-important chicks who would rather sleep off a cold in the glorious and extravagant care of a public hospital or we are raging party animals who don't know when to stop. Whatever.

Once again, really happy for everyone that their lives and heath have been so fantastic they have never found themselves too tired mentally and physically to be capable of moving, eating, sleeping, working, or overcoming minor colds. Hope that holds out for you.

I don't even know why I bother coming here anymore. Metafilter, as a whole, has been becoming a shittier and shittier place to be for a long time now. Community, indeed.
posted by Orb at 3:29 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


STOP SAYING "HOSPITALIZED".

The dictionary on my computer (for whatever that's worth) thinks "hospitalized" is a real word, meaning what people here are using it to mean.

Anyway, the lack of sympathy on my part is because in the stories presented, it sounded a lot like poor choices combined with some dramatics, combined with bad luck and a lot of privilege. Your stories are really common at colleges and universities in the last 1/3 of the semester -- every year a few people work themselves into a tizzy, get run down, get some sort of bug (flu, mono, whatever) and end up in the hospital for the weekend. To the extent that they are nice people having a tough time, I'm totally sympathetic. But to the extent that it is almost completely self-caused, and people all around them are dealing with the same pressures and the same stresses and not ending up in the hospital, I'm not so sympathetic. (And if someone makes a habit of it, and keeps doing it, I'm really not sympathetic -- I can't think of a clearer message of "you need to get your shit together" than that.)

So maybe it makes me a hater, sure. But I figure, if you want to be loved, you have to be able to love yourself. And if something as utterly unimportant as student clubs is making you ill, the way you demonstrate that you can love yourself is to take care of yourself by quitting the stupid clubs.

(Re: the story about the polish plumber, taking a break from invading France: Many people have written about the ways in which poverty manifests itself as sickness, as violence against the body -- Nancy Scheper-Hughes' Death Without Weeping is a classic; there are many others.)
posted by Forktine at 3:41 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


reklaw, why the fuck should anyone stop saying "hospitalized?"

It's a word. Get the fuck over yourself.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 3:47 AM on April 23, 2007


reklaw is British, I think, and so "go to hospital" and being "in hospital" are correct usage. "Hospitalize" probably sounds as weird to US ears as something like . . . I dunno, "garbagize" would, in reference to taking out garbage. (Probably not a good analogy.) Of course, UK usage is only one kind of English, and hospitalize is perfectly acceptable in other Englishes. Let's all check in!
posted by cgc373 at 3:50 AM on April 23, 2007


I didn't go to university, I was universityized.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:57 AM on April 23, 2007


And of course, the British know all.
posted by liquorice at 3:58 AM on April 23, 2007


Fortunately for me, Dr President Steve Elvis America, I get away with my post facto judgment because it actually happened to her twice, in similar circumstances, so we can say that the second time she did have the information to make different decisions. To rephrase...ah, screw it.

Anyhow, I think overall Forktine said what I would have liked to say.
posted by jacalata at 4:00 AM on April 23, 2007


Meh. Should read "sounds as weird to UK ears" not "to US ears." Sorry. Cannot make points. Must back away from MetaTalk now. Sleep in the offing. O wondrous sleep!
posted by cgc373 at 4:18 AM on April 23, 2007


The hostility in this thread (that crops up other places here, too, obviously) is so off-putting. Many people don't want handholding and backrubs, just civility.
posted by sneakin at 4:20 AM on April 23, 2007 [3 favorites]


Perhaps a slight overreaction, but it's such a damn stupid word, and reading it so many times... it just got to me, you know. Burglarized really shits us Brits too -- it's "burgled". There's no good reason to overcomplicate your language in such a way.
posted by reklaw at 4:27 AM on April 23, 2007


Maybe some of you don't realize that if you wear out your adrenal glands from stress you can become pretty freaking ill. REALLY sick.
posted by konolia at 4:33 AM on April 23, 2007


>>Why are people being so judgmental in this AskMe question?

>"Because it's MetaFilter" is the most likely answer. If you want hand-holding and backrubs, you'd be better off elsewhere.

I think we expect a little more restraint on the snarkiness in AskMe, and yes, we see a lot of handholding and group hugs there, too. Now that this question is in MeTa, though, I can visiualize it getting ugly.
posted by Robert Angelo at 4:58 AM on April 23, 2007


Come on reklaw, American English is awesome: where would we be without the word "murderize"?
posted by ninebelow at 5:00 AM on April 23, 2007


Why are people being so judgmental in this AskMe question?

Because of an unfortunate series of events:

(1) The questioner asked a chatty, open-ended question.

(2) The subject of the matter - being "hospitalized for exhaustion" - has several possible meanings: a euphemism used by celebrities as code for rehad, depression, hangover cure, or just being tired and not wanting to work after hard partying; people needing genuine hospitalization, hydration, and bed rest after overwork; people needing medical attention because of a specific illness exacerbated by overwork. Any of these is correct, since the OP didn't specify which particular meaning s/he wanted to hear.

(3) You answered this chatty question with a personal anecdote. Personal anecdotes are single data points that you know a great deal about and no one else knows anything about it.

(4) You then took offense other posters questioned the veracity of your anecdote as valid evidence, and judged you harshly. This is understandable and reasonable.

(5) You also took offense when other posters provided alternative definitions and made judgemental statements about celebrities. This is not so reasonable, as you do not own either this topic or this thread. The fact that you legitimately had to be hospitalized does not change the fact that plenty of celebrities use this as an excuse/cover story, and are open targets for the derision being heaped upon them. You are (unfarily) experiencing some ancillary derision, but you are also being oversensitive to it.
posted by googly at 5:02 AM on April 23, 2007 [3 favorites]


There's no good reason to overcomplicate your language in such a way.

Why? It only sounds weird to you because you didn't grow up hearing it. "I went to hospital" sounds equally grating and weird to me. Languages are complex and weird and getting pissy over it is silly.

I think we expect a little more restraint on the snarkiness in AskMe, and yes, we see a lot of handholding and group hugs there, too.

Sure, but MetaFilter is still full of angry people who have nothing better to do with their time than shit on someone's question, so things like this will happen from time to time. Welcome to the Internet, etc. etc.

And my mother was hospitalized for exhaustion after she wasn't able to sleep for a week as a result of multiple sclerosis drugs keeping up or something, so don't think I'm defending the assholes.
posted by cmonkey at 5:06 AM on April 23, 2007


All the hostility seems to be directed towards one definition of "hospitalized for exhaustion," the "oh no the stress of clubbing was too much" definition.

Both divabat and Orb's stories read (to me) as being hospitalized, full stop. They were both infected with a disease that, compounded by their lifestyle, caused them to be very sick. I wouldn't use the phrase "hospitalized for exhaustion" to describe either of those situations. I'm sure the exhaustion must have seemed overwhelming, but it wasn't the root cause of the problem.

I've slept 20 hrs at a stretch, after not sleeping for a week. If I had been sick, or otherwise weak at that point I could imagine having to spend some time in a hospital, because a tired body doesn't heal well. I would have called that being hospitalized for being very sick, not for being exhausted.
posted by Skorgu at 5:18 AM on April 23, 2007


There's no good reason to overcomplicate your language in such a way.

I agree. But not with the examples given, just with the construction: "orientated".
posted by psmealey at 5:22 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


"YOU WENT TO HOSPITAL. YOU WERE ADMITTED TO HOSPITAL."

Surely you mean "to a hospital" or "to the hospital"? Or have you crazy British begun discarding your articles? Because you add all those superfluous letters to your words, so pick a direction. Either add stuff or get rid of it. Otherwise, it's too confusing and we will have to employ a regime change in the leadership structure of your language, to liberationize it.

Or does the UK only have one hospital?
posted by Eideteker at 5:24 AM on April 23, 2007 [4 favorites]


Maybe people who say "went to hospital" should be sent to jail.
posted by seanyboy at 5:29 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oh my, I've pissed reklaw off.

Perhaps I was supposed to spell it hospitalised...?

*flees*
posted by po at 5:31 AM on April 23, 2007


Ok, ok, seriously. I was hoping no one would bring up "jail" or "church". But in both of those cases, they are assumed to be an institution with one overriding authority. Are all hospitals in the UK run by the gov't. or something? Because when you say, "I went to church," you mean you went to the 'one true church, which is invisible, in heaven, and all "church buildings" are merely doors to this one ethereal place'. And going 'to jail' or 'to prison' means 'was imprisoned', by the state. But in the US, it's always THE hospital. Which one? St. Mary's. Or First Presbyterian. Or Beth Israel. Even among the religiously devout, there is no "one true hospital". Why the difference?

Maybe I should page teh langwodgehat.
posted by Eideteker at 5:36 AM on April 23, 2007


And po, it's hospitalysed. Broken down by hospital-shaped enzymes.
posted by Eideteker at 5:38 AM on April 23, 2007 [3 favorites]


We say "went to hospital" in Australia, too. And sometimes we even say "hospitalised".

Eideteker, you're wasting your time if you're expecting language to be logical. It ain't.
posted by different at 5:39 AM on April 23, 2007


I've been hospitalized (a perfectly good word that makes mincemeat out of "admitted to hospital") for unexplained fatigue and exhaustion. Turned out it was blood sepsis from an undiagnosed (so called "occult," dental) bacterial infection. If you're tired all the time and it's getting worse, don't let the stigma swirling around in these threads keep you from getting help.

Celebrities use "exhaustion" as a euphemism because it's a real condition. If they said "going for treatment of unicorn horn growths on the forehead," they'd seem silly.
posted by spitbull at 5:40 AM on April 23, 2007


PeterMcDermott: "I've had a Polish builder working at my house for the last few months. He's seperated from his wife and family, living in a single room without cooking or laundry facilities. His standard day is nine hours long, but he often works as long as twelve or thirteen hours, depending on what needs doing. His only time off is Sunday, when he works a half day. He's now 32, and has lived this way since he was 17 or 18. Much of his work is hard, manual labour -- tiling, plastering, bricklaying, etc."

It sounds like you're kind of an asshole slave driver. It's a good thing he doesn't have time to check MetaFilter to see that you're holding him up as an example for us.
posted by Plutor at 5:41 AM on April 23, 2007 [5 favorites]


"SLIGHT" OVER-REACTION? "SLIGHT"? THAT WASN'T FUCKING "SLIGHT", IT WAS A FUCKING OVER-REACTION! HOLY SWEET JESUS FUCK!
posted by liquorice at 5:42 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


What is "logical" about "admitted to hospital" versus "hospitalized?" Fewer syllables, abundantly clear meaning, uses a standard English grammatical construction (anyone have a problem with "monetizing and idea" instead of "making money off an idea?" "hypnotized" for "put under hypnosis"?) . . .

And I was educated in the UK.
posted by spitbull at 5:43 AM on April 23, 2007


jacalanta: see, they weren't similar circumstances. The first time was overwork, but it was in a culture where that was prized - you weren't meant to skip days or take a break unless you're bedridden. The girl I got the flu from was in my debate team and came for practices.

The second time, though, I did nothing - I rested at home and tried to sleep. Did what people in the thread suggested. Didn't help me at all.

As for the celebrity reactions: suffice to say, I have a very personal connection to that, and all the assumptions are totally unfounded.
posted by divabat at 5:55 AM on April 23, 2007


po: why would you want to be jealous of someone who spends all their time drugged up on IV, in pain, having constant nausea, and feeling like they've been run over a truck a million times?
posted by divabat at 5:56 AM on April 23, 2007


Maybe I'm dense, maybe the worst comments have been culled ... would somebody please link an example or two of this "hate" I've been hearing so much about?
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:01 AM on April 23, 2007


Previously.

Previously previously.
posted by ninebelow at 6:05 AM on April 23, 2007


and hosted from Uranus, I wouldn't use the word "hate," as divabat did. I think what happened in the AskMe thread was more or less fair game. You ask a particular question (in a problematic way as googly pointed out pretty aptly), you're going to get responses and they won't all be charitable and loving. Fine. But I was talking more about the hostility in this thread. I get that the grey is more of an anything goes than the green, but it's just, well, unpleasant the way people are talking to each other. It isn't as bad as other communities I've been in (I straight up never logged in to MacThemesForums.net ever again, even the mods were assholes), but when people are mean just for the sake of being mean, it's, well mean.
posted by sneakin at 6:12 AM on April 23, 2007


Hey, my question got called out!

(1) The questioner asked a chatty, open-ended question.

No, I did not. Perhaps you should re-read it. I asked it because I didn't know the answer and google didn't help.
Also, FWIW, I'm really tired and I have Blue Cross.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:14 AM on April 23, 2007


Are all hospitals in the UK run by the gov't. or something?

Well, yeah, they are.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:16 AM on April 23, 2007


Can someone start a British people hate the way we say things and the feeling is mutual thread?
posted by sneakin at 6:17 AM on April 23, 2007


I removed the last noise-y comment in that thread before the MeTa callout. It's one of those questions where a lot of peopel answered "well I don't know, but..." which is always annoying. On the other hand, at the point at which you are annoyed with people's responses in AskMe, coming here is a good idea. I'm not sure if your follow up post relly helped there, divabat.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:20 AM on April 23, 2007


There's no good reason to overcomplicate your language in such a way.

Well, I for one am totally in favour of that idea.
posted by Deathalicious at 6:21 AM on April 23, 2007


Logically, I suppose, hospitalised should be preferable to 'admitted to hospital', but hospitalise is regarded by some as a particularly 'ugly' word (the OED says it is 'frequently commented on as an unhappy formation'). Some of this perceived ugliness perhaps comes from the fact the 'hospital' in 'hospitalise' isn't pronounced in the same way as 'hospital' on its own — the emphasis shifts to the 'pit' in a slightly unnatural-sounding way.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 6:22 AM on April 23, 2007


It's true that there's a difference between being 'in hospital' and 'at the hospital', in Britain at least. If you're at the hospital, you're on an errand or visiting a relative, but if you're in hospital you're ill.

There are also differences between American and British (Commonwealth?) usage of the definite article for various other words: university, school, flu, menopause. Here's a post from the 'separated by a common language' blog about it.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 6:34 AM on April 23, 2007


anyone have a problem with "monetizing an idea" instead of "making money off an idea"

Both of those are barbarous. It should be "making money from an idea". Obviously. I mean, seriously - "monetize" is up there with "content" (used to refer to text). Hate.

And if you're going to take the U out of favour and colour, why don't you simplify spelling in about a million other ways? Because it would look stupid, that's why.
posted by reklaw at 6:37 AM on April 23, 2007


jessamyn: I'm not sure if your follow up post relly helped there, divabat.

This one, or the other ranty comment I made on the AskMe post? I was more annoyed that people had the impression that "hospitalized for exhaustion" = "vacation in hospital" and wanted to show that it was anything but a vacation.
posted by divabat at 6:47 AM on April 23, 2007


Good lord, you two - divabat and Orb - are probably the two most self-absorbed human beings I've ever had the mispleasure of hearing about. I'd rather read a thousand tabloids solely concerned with Lindsay and Paris's shaky friendship than one more horrible goddamned word about your feelings.

Oh, mean old Optimus! Why are you doing this? Because you, divabat, and you Orb, made it about you: you you you you you you you you, glorious you. You, divabat, are the one who decided to take personal offense to people taking jabs at those poor celebrities. And you, Orb, you are the very worst. You had the flu or a cold, or what the fuck ever, and no one would have said shit. But in your very first post in that thread, before anyone could have possibly "hated on you," you said

So thanks for all the hate in this thread. I guess the next time someone asks me about having spent time in the hospital, I'll be sure to hang my head in shame, because obviously being exhausted to the point of having to be hospitalized means I had a drug problem or I just wanted a vacation and some pampering instead of the truth which was I had too much stuff that had to be dealt with and too little energy to do so and wore my body out to the point it wasn't functioning properly anymore. Talk about attaching stigma to something!

You see the part where you took specific personal offense about things that didn't happen? Where you got all upset and weepy because people were saying mean things about people with actual illnesses even though that never happened? That's what insane people do. So why don't the two of you have a Coke and a smile, take a deep breath, and quit assuming that we care about you and are somehow preemptively attacking you personally. You got the flu? Okay, great, go to the hospital. You got a bug and you can't shake it? Okay, great, go to the hospital. But quit trying to make yourself seem like you're under attack because you conflate actual illness with the grade-A bullshit that is celebrity "exhaustion."
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:47 AM on April 23, 2007 [17 favorites]


po: why would you want to be jealous of someone who spends all their time drugged up on IV, in pain, having constant nausea, and feeling like they've been run over a truck a million times?
posted by divabat


I'd prefer that, sometimes.

Spending all of your time drugged up on caffeine to stay awake, in pain, having constant nausea, and feeling like you've been run over by a truck a million times and having to continue on like that for months without a single day to rest, all the while still working and feeling as though you're trapped inside a mechanical shell, like there's an emptiness inside threatening to burst out of your skin and devour the world... well, that ain't much fun either. I'd take a few days of vomiting and being stuck repeatedly with needles and given hardcore drugs to avoid that, yeah.

Ooh, did I just turn this into a one-upsmanship thread?

Wait, it already was. Carry on.
posted by po at 6:48 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Hospitalize" is in the Oxford English Dictionary with the first quotation from the English newspaper, the Daily Chronicle, as "hospitalise" in 1901. Calling it is a neologism or an Americanism is ignorant.
posted by grouse at 6:53 AM on April 23, 2007


And po, it's hospitalysed. Broken down by hospital-shaped enzymes.--eideteker

Biogeeks in the house! Be careful, when traveling in England, to avoid being analysed.
posted by Mister_A at 6:58 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


eeewww!
posted by carmen at 7:18 AM on April 23, 2007


I was annoyed that so many people blathered on instead without even pretending to answer the question. "Go to sleep if you're so tired" isn't an answer to "What does it mean to be "hospitalized for exhaustion"? What do they do to you in the hospital, besides let you sleep?"
posted by desuetude at 7:19 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Saucy Intruder, I didn't mean to call out your question. It was a fine question, but it was on a topic that encouraged excessive chattiness, which might have been limited if you had specified whether you wanted to know about celebrities or everyday janes & joes.

The problem was in the answers and oversensitivity of some posters, not the question.
posted by googly at 7:44 AM on April 23, 2007


Actually, after thinking it over in the shower, I realize that perhaps part of our ingrained loathing toward the idea of treating exhaustion in a hospital is the idea itself.

To say that exhaustion can be "cured" is kind of a slap in the face to those who endure it day-in, day-out for years on end with little or no relief.

And I realize I've posted -far- too many times in this thread.

I'm going to pull out now, and hope no one notices such a titanic dick has left the building...
posted by po at 7:55 AM on April 23, 2007


Wah, wah, wah. People are mean. My immune system sucks. Really, I think Optimus Chyme has it. The idea of being hospitalized because you neglected to care for yourself smells a little dramatic, and this thread and your protestations in the other one do little to dispel that idea.

Not to mention, plenty of us have lived with the fact that we can't do every single thing we want to do because we need to sleep as well. It is hard to be sympathetic to people who seem to have brought their troubles on themselves. It is certainly uncharitable, but not unpredictable.
posted by dame at 8:06 AM on April 23, 2007


Some of this perceived ugliness perhaps comes from the fact the 'hospital' in 'hospitalise' isn't pronounced in the same way as 'hospital' on its own — the emphasis shifts to the 'pit' in a slightly unnatural-sounding way.

hos PIT a lized? Seriously? I say HOS pit a lized.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:29 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


This post is making me even more exhausted than I was before I went to sleep. Must go hospitalize myself. Need electrolytes. Antibiotics. Please send pretty flowers.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:31 AM on April 23, 2007


hos PIT a lized? Seriously? I say HOS pit a lized

Yeah me too. I wonder if the poster was getting mixed up with hos PIT a ble?
posted by different at 8:33 AM on April 23, 2007


miss lynnster, because I left out an n when I typed your name, and because you asked so nicely, and you're so tired, here are some Pretty Flowers, MeFi–style.
posted by cgc373 at 8:37 AM on April 23, 2007


hos PIT a lized? Seriously? I say HOS pit a lized.

Hmm, yeah, the more I think about it, the more confused I get...

I can't put my finger on it, but something sounds awkward and 'wrong' about hospitalised, to my ear, as if there are too many emphasised syllables or something.
posted by Aloysius Bear at 8:38 AM on April 23, 2007


I knew a guy in Miami who came from the West Indies, not sure which one [NOT WEST INDIESIST!]. But wait there's more to the story! He said "horse-pital". OK, done now.
posted by Mister_A at 8:40 AM on April 23, 2007


Burglarized:
1. To enter and steal from (a building or other premises).
2. To commit burglary against.
3. In which an individual is unwittingly transformed into the HamBurglar.
posted by kisch mokusch at 8:51 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Aloysius Bear - the separated by a common language blog is wonderful. Thanks for the link!
posted by deborah at 9:05 AM on April 23, 2007


There are a lot of judgemental people in the world, and I think all those people are worthless dirtballs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on April 23, 2007 [2 favorites]


Thanks, Aloysius Bear. Good link!

"And if you're going to take the U out of favour and colour, why don't you simplify spelling in about a million other ways? Because it would look stupid, that's why."


How soon you forget! Seriously, though, douwghqohwughnut? D-O-N-U-T.
posted by Eideteker at 9:29 AM on April 23, 2007


The issue here isn't misuse of the word "hospitalize;" it's misuse of the words "hostility" and "hate."

Folks try to answer a question about the celebrity lifestyle, about whether or not "hospitalize for exhaustion" is a code phrase and, if so, exactly what it means, and a couple of people jump stink on everybody for personally insulting them by diminishing their own struggles with exhaustion. Are they celebrities? Can they speak for most celebrities?

The facts of these anecdotes are not at issue, nor is the doctor's prognosis in either case. Questions about the lives of the celebrity class are not answered by any one non-celebrity's story, though stories of personal experience with exhaustion can inform and persuade the average reader that there may be more to celebrity exhaustion than just hangovers and histrionics.

Wading into a thread with a contrary opinion based on personal experience is a brave and useful thing to do; labeling the prevailing opinion as hateful and hostile while doing so is a self-fulfilling prophecy in the making. If you want to tell people they're wrong, that's fine; if you're right, you'll persuade the open-minded.

If you just want to tell people that they're assholes, though, it doesn't matter at all who's right; the only thing that matters is who's being an asshole. And that's a boot that fits as soon as you start kicking.
posted by breezeway at 9:30 AM on April 23, 2007


Guys, guys, won't someone please think of the celebrities?
posted by Eideteker at 9:33 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


jacalata: lack of healthy decision making ... To rephrase: you sound like you acted stupidly. That doesn't encourage empathy.

That's a pretty weak criteria for empathy/sympathy for someone whose 'lack of healthy decision making' landed them in the hospital. The majority of people in the hospital made some 'stupid' choices that contribute to their having been hospitalized. Lung cancer patients who stupidly smoked, colon cancer patients who stupidly didn't eat more fibre. STD patients who are stupid sluts, or stupidly trusted the stupid sluts they slept with. Car crash patients who stupidly drove too fast, too slow, while tired, or in bad weather. And all manner of other E.R. patients who've done all manners of stupid, stupid things.

reklaw: STOP SAYING "HOSPITALIZED".

Will do. When you limeys stop referring to the E.R. as 'Casualty'. "He was taken to Casualty" makes no bloody sense!
posted by CKmtl at 9:46 AM on April 23, 2007


Is there a "only refers to celebrity" tag that I'm missing here? This question didn't seem that complicated to me.

1) Celebrities (er, their publicists) use it as an explanation for "worn out from over-partying."

2) No, it's not always a euphemism for strung-out.

3) Hydration and nourishment provided until the patient's strength is regained.
posted by desuetude at 10:09 AM on April 23, 2007


Oh, I was wondering where all the redirected anger at the universe had gone. Deep breaths everyone, and get some sun.

I've been tired enough that I slept for 20 hours. I remember kind of "waking up" and hearing my roomates talking and wanting to get up and say "hi" but not being able to. This was in my 20s.

I also got put into the hospital recently (insert your preferred correction here) with what they thought was Spinal Meningitis, but turned out to be severe strep, dehydration, and impacted sinuses. The deciding factor was that I couldn't keep the medicine down.

Sure, now looking at it I can see where I made several missteps in "taking care of myself". But beating up on someone for that is just shitty behavior. You want to say it's jealousy, fine. At least own up to your own motivations.

Orb, I know what you're saying. I went totally offline for years when I realized "the net" was bringing me down. I say step back and remember we're not really here. We're in our chairs or sofas, typing into the ether. The best online "communities" are the ones focused on one or two subjects (buncha [insert parenting-style] moms, buncha hobbyists, etc) that are moderated well and without emotion, and where flame wars are nipped in the bud.

Metafilter is unique in that the subjects can go here there and everywhere, so you never know where the next landmine is going to be.

The only folks who should be taking Metafilter very very seriously are the mods. What the rest of us should be taking seriously are the mods. And the rules. Not saying there isn't room for the occasional chaos, which the mods been compassionate enough to give us all for the last week or so. I'm just saying we need to step back, remember what's real and what isn't, calm the hell down, and try to be kind, and if we can't do that, try to be civilized.
posted by lysdexic at 10:13 AM on April 23, 2007


Two-year member is dismayed at judgmental answers to an AskMe question, makes meta post about it. In a stunning development, the Meta thread gets even more judgmental responses. Who would have thought?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:15 AM on April 23, 2007


What I never understood about that thread was orb and divabat confusing being seriously ill with the flu with being "exhausted". The condition of being exhausted certainly contributes to susceptibility to disease, but they are not the same thing. Yes, there is a stigma to the phrase "being hospitalized for exhaustion" because it's been used as a euphemism for all sorts of things. However, I don't know of it being used as a euphemism for being treated for influenza, so I'm not sure why divabat and orb would take the thread so personally. They were clearly very ill, with a very real disease, but that's not what the thread was about.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:25 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


What I never understood about that thread was orb and divabat confusing being seriously ill with the flu with being "exhausted".

That's pretty much the heart of the matter right there, and to extrapolate back to celebrities, makes their responses even more nonsensical, since any publicist would likely prefer "hospitalized for a severe case of the flu exacerbated by exhaustion" to the clear euphemism being bandied about.
posted by OmieWise at 10:37 AM on April 23, 2007


CKmtl wrote "Will do. When you limeys stop referring to the E.R. as 'Casualty'. "He was taken to Casualty" makes no bloody sense!"

Actually we call it A&E now. The TV show remains "Casualty" though.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:39 AM on April 23, 2007


Shouldn't someone be contacting the Labor Commission about PeterMcDermott's indentured Polish workman? That guy's really getting a shit deal.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:52 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: Community, indeed.
posted by Duncan at 11:00 AM on April 23, 2007


Oh, I don't know - aren't there some instances where celebrities can get exhausted without it being refered to as "grade-A bullshit"? I'm as cynical as the next person, but I try not to let my cynicism get in the way of empathy for my fellow human. I too was a little irked at the tone that kept on cropping up in that thread. I'm all for a little snarkiness in the comments, but at least if you're going to snark about something be witty and intelligent about it. Snarking at the misery of others (even if you think celebs are BSing and 'exhaustion' equals 'rehab') is never very cool. Snark is easy to deliver - empathy, not so much, judging by the quick meanness that can often crop up on AskMe. (I know it's a constant in Meta, though, sadly).

And for those who have no empathy for celebrities, well, sure, they're rich and often they have some level of power, but let's try and imagine walking a mile in someone else's shoes before slagging them for their profession, no? Or is the ability to empathize with someone else not cool? It's easier to just LOL Celebs? Great. I'll be in the corner being curmudgeonly and bemoaning the snarkiness, I guess. Don't mind me.
posted by rmm at 11:06 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


The majority of people in the hospital made some 'stupid' choices that contribute to their having been hospitalized

don't ever get a job writing get well cards for hallmark
posted by pyramid termite at 11:06 AM on April 23, 2007


and lysdexic, "Deep breaths everyone, and get some sun" should be a required line in every thread where overt snarkiness and arguing brings down the tenor of the conversation.
posted by rmm at 11:08 AM on April 23, 2007


FWIW, at least one of those "judgemental" comments came from an actual medical doctor.


Also, FWIW, this followup comment of yours:
You think it's so fucking easy to be hooked up to an IV for days on end, to get your fingers pricked EVERY SINGLE DAY, to not be able to stomach anything because your stomach's a mess, to nearly be KILLED by an allergic reaction to medicine that could help you, to be stuck in bed all fucking day just staring at the ceiling because you are too tired and drugged up to do anything else?

You think that's easy? Then you take our place.


....comes across as awfully self-pitying and dramatic to anyone who's seen someone go through months of vicious chemo treatments for a painful cancer....on an outpatient basis.
posted by availablelight at 11:26 AM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


I have the image of a worn-out kid at the end of the semester. Frail and hooked up to an IV for half a day. Missing three club meetings and one free legal clinic meeting downtown (not to mention a charity run and Bain recruiting session). The ghost of their college adviser comes in, "You did this to yourself. I told you not to take 17 hours this semester and keep up your load. People don't like overachievers, they come off as self-centered."

"Was it self-centered? FUCK self-centered. Not nice? Fuck nice. The Metafilter says I'm not nice? FUCK THE METAFILTER. Do you wanna be NICE? Or you wanna be EFFECTIVE"
posted by geoff. at 12:03 PM on April 23, 2007


Exhaustion is not a diagnosis. It's a symptom. As a criteria for admission to the hospital, it is a non-starter. That is, in the real world, the hospital admins would eject the patient, or the insurance would refuse to pay for the stay.

But there are other diagnoses that may sound similar that are not, such as dehydration, failure to thrive, etc.

The point needs to be made that in the world of medical care, there are certain themes that one observes that are reasonable reflections of the mental health of patients, and of their relative interest or lack thereof in being the focus of attention.

A desire to be admitted to the hospital for symptoms that can be safely managed at home is a red flag. The OP and subsequent posters [divabat] have become enraged over the fact that multiple people have pointed out this fact. It's not a personal attack, and it's frankly quite bizarre that anyone feels their time and effort is used wisely coming here and telling the world why their hospital admission was necessary.
posted by docpops at 12:38 PM on April 23, 2007


We cut to a series of pictures of:

The French Club, Debate Team, lacrosse, golf, drama, Astronomy Society, Glee Club, student council, Model United Nations, Stamp & Coin Club, Gun Club, Bombardment Society, calligraphy, fencing kung fu, beekeeping, and J.V. water polo.

Max is president or captain of virtually every one of these.

Other photographs show Max pole-vaulting, dancing at the Christmas ball, and giving a thumbs up from the cockpit of a Piper Club.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:43 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


IANAD, but it sounds like "exhaustion" is a symptom, not a disease. It may have any number of causes, up to and including: flu, mono, hangover, lack of sleep, over-exertion, sunstroke, AIDS, anything. It's just a symptom -- so, being "hospitalized for exhaustion" makes exactly as much sense as being "hospitalized for chest pains."

It may not be clear at first what caused the chest pains -- and it might turn out to be serious or frivolous. Maybe the sufferer pulled a muscle while doing keg stands at his fraternity alumni reunion (What an idiot, right? No empathy for that loser). But maybe it's a heart attack in progress. No way to know unless you check it out with a doctor, right?

Yes, it's true that not everyone has the time/money/privilege to be able to go to the doctor. It's also true that some people are hypochondriacs with a very low bar for when to go to the doctor. And, furthermore, it is definitely true that celebrity publicists sometimes lie and spin to cover up their clients' drug/alcohol problems.

But I don't see how any of this changes the basic situation, which is that:

1. Exhaustion is an actual symptom that can signal an actual physical disease.
2. If you think you may have a disease, you should probably go see a doctor, if you can.
posted by ourobouros at 12:52 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Why are people being so judgmental

Because MetaFilter is brimming with assholes.
posted by ORthey at 12:53 PM on April 23, 2007


Because MetaFilter is brimming with assholes....

...who should use only one-square of TP when wiping!
posted by ericb at 1:46 PM on April 23, 2007


The majority of people in the hospital made some 'stupid' choices that contribute to their having been hospitalized

don't ever get a job writing get well cards for hallmark


My Sympathies For Your Poor Decision-Making Skills

I Hope You Feel Better (And Make Better Choices)

Get Well Soon, Stupid
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 2:01 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Here's To Your Hopefully Eye-Opening, Self-Reflective Recovery

Thinking Of You In Your Time Of Comeuppance

Into Every Life Some Rain Damned Well Ought To Fall, Finally
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:34 PM on April 23, 2007 [6 favorites]


Dreamt I was a muffler, woke up exhausted.

That's all I've got.
posted by maxwelton at 2:36 PM on April 23, 2007


Thinking Of You In Your Time Of Comeuppance

Best. Greeting Card. EVER.

I'd like to send one of those to Conrad Black.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 2:42 PM on April 23, 2007


Looks like I picked the wrong week to be hospitalized for exhaustion.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:47 PM on April 23, 2007


Ok, now I'm giggling uncontrollably. Thanks, guys.

After my last hospital stint, I was chatting w/my brother about our sister, who seemed on her way to hospitalization, since she was working herself to exhaustion. I said I thought her husband would to it, and he took it the wrong way:

bro: WHAT?!
me: I mean, she's overworking, she's just gonna collapse and have to be put on an IV drip.
bro: oh, so not "put her in the hospital" with a broken jaw, you mean "slow down, you stupid bitch!"
me: yeah
bro: and how long did it take you to finally go to a doctor?
me ..uhhh
bro: you stupid bitch?

So I think there would definitely be a market for those, Fuzzy Monster.
posted by lysdexic at 2:48 PM on April 23, 2007


Our Sympathies

... open card...

For Having Lost This Year's Darwin Awards.
Better Luck Next Time.

Yours Truly,
Hurf-Durf
posted by CKmtl at 2:52 PM on April 23, 2007 [1 favorite]


Plutor writes 'PeterMcDermott:

'It sounds like you're kind of an asshole slave driver. It's a good thing he doesn't have time to check MetaFilter to see that you're holding him up as an example for us.'


Right, because there's nothing that I want *more* than a builder around my house, 12 hours a day, seven days a week for months on end.

The man is self-employed. He works for himself, not for me. If he chooses to do the work over that sort of period, then who am I to tell him that he can't? Whenever I've tried to get him to work fewer hours, he complains that he'd only be sitting at home in his shitty room, whereas if he's working he's amassing the money to build his second house.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:55 PM on April 23, 2007


Aaaw, I love you guys. Group hug time!
posted by liquorice at 4:05 PM on April 23, 2007


What OuroBouros said.
posted by Sparx at 5:40 PM on April 23, 2007


I'm Sorry Your Self-Destructive Lifestyle Finally Caught Up With You, But There's A Silver Lining In Every Cloud ...


I WON THE POOL!
posted by pyramid termite at 8:27 PM on April 23, 2007


best wishes in your troubled time. i'm not beaming with schadenfreude, i'm beaming with gratitude that it wasn't me.

ok, somebody asked a question about being hospitalized for exhaustion, and two others questioned the propriety of stating the obvious: in 99% of the cases, exhaustion = drink+drugs+partying. take two ambiens and text me in the morning.
posted by bruce at 10:25 PM on April 23, 2007


Something a lot of people seem to have missed, when talking about making stupid decisions that lead to becoming a hospital patient.

I'm not sure about any of you, but when I am exhausted, I am generally not functioning at my best, mentally speaking. My ability to make intelligent decisions is severely impaired by the overwhelming fog.

I had a mild form of immune system supression caused by depression when I was younger; over suffcient years, this lead to me being fatigued, all the time. I constantly had some cold or flu or something; once or twice it was more serious than that. I was too tired to sleep, too tired to eat. I am fortunate in that I had a parent who worked in a hospital, recognised the signs of impending systemic exhaustion, made me eat and gave me something to knock me out so I got some real sleep before I managed to work myself into a critical condition. In my case, since I was tired and sick all the time anyway, it wasn't a sudden thing; I just got a liittle bit worse over a period of months, but I didn't, couldn't pick up on that, because I was too tired to really care that much. Mum stepped in before I reached the tipping point where becoming a hospital patient was the only option.

Some people aren't as lucky as I am, to have people who are informed and able watching over them.

Likewise, I know people who have been admitted to hospital on the basis of CFS, which looks a lot like chronic exhaustion to me.
posted by ysabet at 12:07 AM on April 24, 2007


Now that Summer is here, I think it's important to remember that


termite's got a pool!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:49 AM on April 24, 2007


current outdoor temperature - 51 degrees ... oh, yeah, you're going to LOVE that
posted by pyramid termite at 7:01 AM on April 24, 2007


I'm sure somebody has made this point already, but I'm going to make the point myself since I don't have time to read all the comments:

What's irritating about people saying they were "hospitalized for exhaustion" is the self-congratulation that seems to accompany that claim. It carries with it the implication of, "Look at me --- I work so hard, that I exceed my physical limits and ended up in the hospital."

In fact, as many people here who HAVE been "hospitalized for exhaustion" have conceded, they weren't actually hospitalized for exhaustion, they were hospitalized for an illness they contracted WHILE they were exhausted. Big difference. It might very well have been an illness they would have contracted, and been hospitalized for, even if they WEREN'T exhausted. But they want to focus on how hard they work, how many organizations they belong to, etc., and that's obnoxious because it's trying to turn one's illness into a mark of achievement.
posted by jayder at 10:25 AM on April 24, 2007 [1 favorite]


Although it was deleted, I commented that perhaps divabat's friend that 'works herself to the bone' needs to find a new job.

Really. If your job is *that bad* and it's killing you and putting you in the hospital, find a new job.

Why the judgemental attitudes?

We're sick of the fucking drama queens.
posted by drstein at 11:13 AM on April 25, 2007


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