"Flag it and move on!" "I can't!" "The override, where's the override?!?!?"

June 5, 2007 6:46 AM

Problem A: A Metafilter Jobs post breaks the guidelines, IMO. Problem B: I get a Cold Fusion error when flagging it as breaking the guidelines.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher to bugs at 6:46 AM (34 comments total)

Flag it and move... oh.
posted by grouse at 6:50 AM on June 5, 2007

I removed the post, we'll wait for the West Coast to wake up to see what the CF error resolution will be.
posted by jessamyn at 6:56 AM on June 5, 2007

I wonder if it has to do with the category. First time it threw an error. Second time I flagged it with "fantastic comment" and it worked.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:56 AM on June 5, 2007

I just tried flagging as "it breaks the guidelines" and produced an error as well:

"[Macromedia][SQLServer JDBC Driver][SQLServer]Incorrect syntax near 'from'."

"Fantastic post/comment" worked just fine.

Weird indeed.
posted by cortex at 7:14 AM on June 5, 2007

On the off chance that dobbs comes in here, HowardForums is a great place to get insider info about cellphone plans, including in Canada.
posted by mendel at 7:16 AM on June 5, 2007

It was not written well, but if framed as a consulting job, would it pass muster?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:19 AM on June 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

It's not a "job" in any sense of the word. dobbs already pushed boundries with an earlier "job" asking someone to get him a cellphone and we let that go as a marginal volunteer project, but looking for info on a special cellphone plan does not in any way belong in jobs.

Maybe for ask mefi, but still a stretch.
posted by mathowie at 7:41 AM on June 5, 2007

By the way, this CF flag problem will be resolved when we roll out ajaxy flagging to the rest of the sites.
posted by pb at 7:45 AM on June 5, 2007

*spanks dobbs, one eyebrow raised ironically*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:46 AM on June 5, 2007

Sorry, I've been marathoning Sparta Star Trek's original series lately, and am all about the clumsily-deployed semi-mock-ironic eyebrow at the moment.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:49 AM on June 5, 2007

It's not a "job" in any sense of the word. dobbs already pushed boundries with an earlier "job" asking someone to get him a cellphone and we let that go as a marginal volunteer project, but looking for info on a special cellphone plan does not in any way belong in jobs.

Excuse me? I made a MeTa post specifically asking if it was cool to post jobs that were errand runs in other countries and was told it was. The responses were "You want someone to do something for you. You're paying them. Therefore, it's a job." If you've changed these paremeters I missed the memo.

Under that criteria, I don't see how it's not a job "in any sense of the word".

Regardless, an email from either of the commenting admins or JKF regarding this callout would have been considerate to say the least.
posted by dobbs at 7:58 AM on June 5, 2007

Oh, and thanks, mendel.
posted by dobbs at 8:04 AM on June 5, 2007

But, but, but, the elegant chaotic beauty of Metafilter is that there are no rules, only guidelines, and sometimes guideline interpretation smacks you in the ass, 'cause, you know, it's all good.

It's really all good, man. Mostly. Usually. Right?

(withdraws IRC-emote dobbs-spanking, unless dobbs enjoyed it, in which spankage is respectfully and erotically redoubled)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:11 AM on June 5, 2007

errand runs in other countries

I don't see how "get me an insider cheap phone plan" qualifies as an errand. If we let stuff go like this, seeing job posts that were basically "get me a joost invite plz" may very well become the norm.
posted by mathowie at 8:12 AM on June 5, 2007

GET ME SUM H00KERZ AND BL0W D00D
posted by quonsar at 8:15 AM on June 5, 2007

GET ME SUM H00KERZ AND BL0W D00D

*suddenly realizes the glorious power of jobs.metafilter*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:17 AM on June 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

I was commenting on two different things. That is, you implied that my errand run post was merely tolerated (as an "experiment") when in fact I'd followed protocol and posted here first asking if such a Jobs post was kosher.

The responses in that thread seemed to me to be pretty clear that getting someone to do whatever for you in exchange for money was a job. It was this criteria that I applied to today's job post. I had considered coming here and getting clarification again but it felt like I was gonna get the same answer so I didn't bother.

Though I see your joost comparison, I think it's a stretch and your example seems more like a "buy/sell" thing than a job. I don't see how my getting a cell phone rep with insider info is any different than getting quotes from plumbers and electricians and going with the one that best suits my needs. I assume both of those are Jobs-approved jobs--or hope they are as they're next for me. :)
posted by dobbs at 8:22 AM on June 5, 2007

From over here, at least, that post didn't read like "I want to pay someone to research these plans for me", it looked like it was meant to be an AskMe post, "Has anyone heard of these plans?". It didn't look like you were trying to hire someone to do something.

After reading what you wrote here and then rereading that Jobs post, only then did I see that you were looking to pay someone for the favor of being an insider.

I suspect the others in this thread saw it similarly. It really didn't jump out.
posted by mendel at 8:42 AM on June 5, 2007

A job is doing something for money or possibly trade. It is in the form of "you do this for me and I will do this for you." This post straddled the line between an AskMe post and a jobs post and wasn't right for either as phrased. You were looking for info or help and would offer ... something? If you had said "I'll give someone $100 to figure out a cell phone plan for me" that's a job. If you had said "I need help figuring out these plans" that's an AskMe question.

It seems like what you wanted was someone knowledgeable to help you out for free or for pay and that's just not the right sweet spot for jobs.

I had considered coming here and getting clarification again but it felt like I was gonna get the same answer so I didn't bother.

You can always email us if you're on the fence about something
posted by jessamyn at 8:49 AM on June 5, 2007

"I'll give someone $100 to figure out a cell phone plan for me"

I thought that was pretty much what I did, I just didn't fill in the figure because I have no idea what is fair compensation for such a thing. I did similar things on my errands posts and they all worked out fine.

It seems like what you wanted was someone knowledgeable to help you out for free

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. I wrote "send me ... a price I can give to you directly for giving me access" and filled in the payscale as "discuss". There's no Free about it.
posted by dobbs at 8:57 AM on June 5, 2007

Regardless, an email from either of the commenting admins or JKF regarding this callout would have been considerate to say the least.

In fairness, to, well, me, it would have been merely a flag and move on if not for the Cold Fusion error.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:10 AM on June 5, 2007

Weird. When I glanced at the post the first time, I thought: THIS IS NOT A JOB (all in caps, just like that). And supported the delete.

After reading this discussion, I went back and read it again more closely, and this time I thought: Oh. No. He's right, it really is a job.

Technically all the right language is there. Maybe it's the tone that tricked me, or just that I'm so used to reading AskMe. Maybe I just don't know what's what anymore. Did I mention that I have a cold, and can feel my pulse in my eyelids?
posted by hermitosis at 9:17 AM on June 5, 2007

Thanks, hermitosis.

I'd also like to add that I don't see how this could possibly be considered an Ask question as I'm not asking for information, which I think is the criteria for all Ask posts; I'm asking for a result, something "tangible" (a cell phone plan) in exchange for cash.

If the admins want me to reword and repost, that's fine, though personally I don't see the problem with the language.

However, if it's out-and-out definitely not a Job, I'd still like more clarification as I really don't see the difference between asking for any other person in field X to send me a quote for a specific job.

I'm heading out to work but will check back later tonight.
posted by dobbs at 9:29 AM on June 5, 2007

dobbs, you say you're not asking for information but reading this part of your job:

If you're a rep of one of these companies, please send me a list of the plan's goodness and the price/terms as well as a price I can give to you directly for giving me access and we'll go from there.

it sure sounds like you're asking for information.

The Jobs section was set up to hire people for full-time, part-time, contract, or volunteer work and I don't think this post fits well there. Even though there is a promise of payment involved it's not what people come to expect when they load a page of jobs.

I'd rather you post to ask mefi asking if there is a such thing as "I hear there are insider unadvertised plans and am wondering where could someone go about finding them."
posted by mathowie at 9:48 AM on June 5, 2007

I would like to hire, for a one time service, a cellphone service insider as a consultant. I've heard that there are a number of plans that are not advertised to the public, yet are available to the public. I would like access to that information. Fee negotiable.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:54 AM on June 5, 2007

Bligh mostly nailed it. But again, I'll clarify: I'm not looking to hire someone to gather information for me. I'm looking to hire someone who sells plans for a living (a rep at a cell phone company) who has access to such plans and is willing to sell one to me.

I want to pay someone to do this.

I've seen reps posting such services on CL and eBay in the past; there just haven't been any in the last month, when I'm finally ready to switch.

Ask is completely inappropriate for this task. Jobs, imo, is well-suited for it.

Whatevs, I really have to run...
posted by dobbs at 10:03 AM on June 5, 2007

I'm trying to imagine how this could have been reworded to make it sound more clearly like a job.

I'd like to hire a rep from one of these companies to orchestrate such a deal for me. Send me a proposal and a quote including your fee as a consultant.

I dunno. It still just winds up sounding sorta transactiony, I guess.

It's not a big deal though, really. No matter how many needs that the MetaFilter© sites satisfy daily, some things are bound to stick out as neither fish nor foul.
posted by hermitosis at 10:04 AM on June 5, 2007

I always figured if it wasn't something you'd put on a resume, it wasn't a job.

But I don't keep up with you kids and your newfangled "consulting", so that may be why.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:06 AM on June 5, 2007

The problem, of course, is that you're asking for sounds like a semi-disreputable task. But that's because of this strange caveat "available to the public but not advertised to the public." Sounds like you're trying to get in on some sneaky family benefits, like asking for the employee discount from some guy you met on the street, or advertising to pay someone to marry you for immigration purposes. After careful re-reading, it seems possible that there is some other category this type of service fits into, but I don't really understand the cell-phone business model enough to know what it might be.

Maybe that the admins should rethink this whole jobs = errands business.
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:25 AM on June 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

The information dobbs is looking for is the specifics of the plan/plans he would be purchasing from the person he hired through jobs.
posted by PugAchev at 2:48 PM on June 5, 2007

Maybe that the admins should rethink this whole jobs = errands business.

Exactly, but I'm sure they didn't picture it being used this way. How hard is it to let 'jobs' be used for real employment. By opening it up to this nonsense jobs could become something of a joke.

send me a list of the plan's goodness

The post should have been deleted for that sentence alone.
posted by gtr at 3:17 PM on June 5, 2007

How hard is it to let 'jobs' be used for real employment.

Sure, and I assume you'll be the arbiter of what's "real employment"?

The way I look at the errand things is that there are people in the community who have access to stuff that other members do not. What's wrong with paying people for this access? Yeah, $50 for an hour's work in the city may not be shit to you but to some people it's a great deal. One MeFite is getting something they otherwise can't and another is making some easy money. How is such a situation putting you out in any way? How is cash in exchange for someone's time and effort in any way NOT a job?

If the admins want no errands on Jobs, fine. They're the deciders. However, the suggestion here that I tried to sneak something in under the wire or intentionally broke the guidelines (apparently repeatedly) is insulting bullshit.

The post should have been deleted for that sentence alone.

I'm all for this as long as you're okay with members with the same name as shit 80s guitar bands being banned. Cool?
posted by dobbs at 8:19 PM on June 5, 2007

Sorry about the confusion from before dobbs, I don't think I made it clear the first cellphone errand was borderline and hopefully a one-time thing. I don't think errands fit well into jobs and might be better done at something like a local craigslist with a much bigger local population (here, the chances that someone is in the city you need something from, and is a member, and is someone you trust is a long shot).
posted by mathowie at 9:16 PM on June 5, 2007

Thanks for the apology.

I'm not gonna beat a dead horse but frankly, from my errand posts, you're completely wrong in your estimation. Each of the errand posts I made (but one) recieved multiple responses from interested parties within an hour or two of me making the post. In I think all but one case, the job-seekers were members that were unfamiliar to me. I had no issue with taking them at their word.

Further, the one job I posted that I didn't get a response from (incidentally, the cellphone from another country one) resulted in over 60 other MeFites emailing me to ask if they could get in on that errand-run with each person offering to add $10 to the kitty to pay the runner which would have been a substantial sum for someone for a few hours work. Many of those people even signed up specifically to get my email address--I had to go back into an Ask post where the original job suggestion was made and tell people to stop emailing me about it.

So, in my experience, there absolutely is a desire for errands, both on runner and receiver ends.
posted by dobbs at 10:37 PM on June 5, 2007