Two for two June 9, 2007 8:14 PM Subscribe
Noted.
posted by boo_radley at 8:28 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by boo_radley at 8:28 PM on June 9, 2007
Well, this is a mighty crappy callout. Both of Grod's responses, though mildly abrasive, answered the questions. The second question (do you hate your mother) is uber-chatfilter, and I'm not even sure how that it passed through the filters. And the answer, given the open-endedness, was fair enough. The first question's response by Grod was actually decent (I don't necessarily agree, and it was a bit rambling, but it still gave an interesting opinion).
posted by SeizeTheDay at 8:36 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by SeizeTheDay at 8:36 PM on June 9, 2007
This can't be good for one's mind/psyche to always be bouncing around like that.
See, now that's JudgeMe.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 8:38 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
See, now that's JudgeMe.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 8:38 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Both questions are inherently unanswerable because they suggest clashes with individuals whose personalities and behavior are simply incompatible with those of the questioner. Their purpose was to vent, not to ask.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:47 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:47 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
First they try to appear to minister to some anonymous' huge consuming life issues, then they post a question about hard disk duplication.
Just shows that some get really invested in other people's emotional problems (to the point of posting to MetaTalk about answers they don't care for), and others just see them as another question and try to solve them logically. A matter of empathy, I think.
posted by smackfu at 8:48 PM on June 9, 2007
Just shows that some get really invested in other people's emotional problems (to the point of posting to MetaTalk about answers they don't care for), and others just see them as another question and try to solve them logically. A matter of empathy, I think.
posted by smackfu at 8:48 PM on June 9, 2007
But he's the smartest gorilla, even if he does use his powers for evil!
posted by klangklangston at 8:52 PM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 8:52 PM on June 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
Sometimes a Western Digital Caviar is just a Western Digital Caviar.
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I was going to post the first comment in this thread before and say "Don't mind if I do!" but I held back.
I guess I really missed the boat on that one.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:19 PM on June 9, 2007
I guess I really missed the boat on that one.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:19 PM on June 9, 2007
Off topic, but does anyone else have a wicked crush on Methylviolet or is it just me? That screen name that is reminiscent of opium dens from the 1930's and the writings of Robert Louis Stevenson. Every time I see her name I get a mental image of some violet liquid being drawn up into a glass hypodermic. She gives me a rush. She gives me chills. I'm jonesing for Methylviolet.
posted by vronsky at 9:32 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by vronsky at 9:32 PM on June 9, 2007
SeizeTheDay, I think the implied question after "How did you know when you got to the point where your mother could say anything at all- and it wouldn't make you wither and die inside?" is "and how can I get to that point any sooner?" It's still a question with potential solutions, though--sure--not ones as clear and unequivocable as the science/computer ones, but if it's chatfilter, then most relationship questions probably are as well.
posted by Tuwa at 10:31 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by Tuwa at 10:31 PM on June 9, 2007
I don't see either example as demonstrating Grod being overly judgmental. He's not terribly sensitive; he's even glib, maybe—but no excess of judgmentalism, in my opinion.
“Their purpose was to vent, not to ask.”
I disagree, especially in the case of the first linked-to thread. The father definitely is looking for someone to give him a clue as to what to do that might help, the daughter or mommy dearest is hoping that someone might give him/her a clue how to live with the pain and cope.
It's almost certainly unrealistic for both to expect that some member of MetaFilter is going to answer their questions the way they hope. But that doesn't mean that the answers they get might not be helpful.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:02 PM on June 9, 2007
“Their purpose was to vent, not to ask.”
I disagree, especially in the case of the first linked-to thread. The father definitely is looking for someone to give him a clue as to what to do that might help, the daughter or mommy dearest is hoping that someone might give him/her a clue how to live with the pain and cope.
It's almost certainly unrealistic for both to expect that some member of MetaFilter is going to answer their questions the way they hope. But that doesn't mean that the answers they get might not be helpful.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:02 PM on June 9, 2007
unequivocal, rather. Allow me to tuck an extra syllable into it. Thayank you.
posted by Tuwa at 11:12 PM on June 9, 2007
posted by Tuwa at 11:12 PM on June 9, 2007
vronsky: No, it's not just you.
posted by special-k at 11:54 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by special-k at 11:54 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
You guys! Now I'm Methylred.
I thought "squeezed you out her cunt" was vile. I still do. Yes, I get it, he was trying to counter this image of saintly motherhood, "giving life". OK, but he overshot. It was offensive. Nobody sees that?
Then he seemed to be all but calling the guy with the son a Nazi. That latter answer obviously resonated with a lot of people, though -- so maybe there is something in it the OP can use as well. Anyway he and Grod are pals now, so no further outrage on my part is necessary.
Alright, Grod -- go forth and sin no more.
posted by Methylviolet at 1:09 AM on June 10, 2007
I thought "squeezed you out her cunt" was vile. I still do. Yes, I get it, he was trying to counter this image of saintly motherhood, "giving life". OK, but he overshot. It was offensive. Nobody sees that?
Then he seemed to be all but calling the guy with the son a Nazi. That latter answer obviously resonated with a lot of people, though -- so maybe there is something in it the OP can use as well. Anyway he and Grod are pals now, so no further outrage on my part is necessary.
Alright, Grod -- go forth and sin no more.
posted by Methylviolet at 1:09 AM on June 10, 2007
Something which interests me is the phenomenology of the idea that judging people is something one ideally avoids, which to me is one of the silliest I’ve ever seen. If you're to live life in a way that you think positive, you need to establish what actions and patterns of behaviour are desirable and what is not desirable; you need judgement. And once you have that you can’t trivially turn it off.
You can keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them, and doing that is IMO the better way to live, but if you train yourself out of having them, then you’re sabotaging yourself, you’re denying yourself knowledge of and preparation for situations that may well arise more directly in your own life.
I’m sort of considering posting an AskMe question on the history of the idea, but then I suspect it’s one of those questions the forum is ill-suited to :-/ .
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 2:06 AM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
You can keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them, and doing that is IMO the better way to live, but if you train yourself out of having them, then you’re sabotaging yourself, you’re denying yourself knowledge of and preparation for situations that may well arise more directly in your own life.
I’m sort of considering posting an AskMe question on the history of the idea, but then I suspect it’s one of those questions the forum is ill-suited to :-/ .
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 2:06 AM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
Aidan Kehoe,
Uh, I think you're being a little abstract here. The "no judgment" standard is based on the idea that a question on AskMe is a request for information. If I ask, "I'm a furry slash fiction enthusiast and writer. What are some good communities I can join to meet up with people who share my hobby?", a response of "Furry slash stories are disgusting and so are you," isn't helpful.
If you meant more generally in life, I think roughly the same rule applies. Generally people don't like or want to be told by others how to live unless they specifically ask for help in that area. So as a rule of social etiquette, people have generally been taught to not put other people in such situations, a "do unto others" type thing.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:35 AM on June 10, 2007
Uh, I think you're being a little abstract here. The "no judgment" standard is based on the idea that a question on AskMe is a request for information. If I ask, "I'm a furry slash fiction enthusiast and writer. What are some good communities I can join to meet up with people who share my hobby?", a response of "Furry slash stories are disgusting and so are you," isn't helpful.
If you meant more generally in life, I think roughly the same rule applies. Generally people don't like or want to be told by others how to live unless they specifically ask for help in that area. So as a rule of social etiquette, people have generally been taught to not put other people in such situations, a "do unto others" type thing.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:35 AM on June 10, 2007
Generally people don't like or want to be told by others how to live unless they specifically ask for help in that area.Telling other people how to live and judging them are distinct things. I also disagree that I was being particularly abstract; how one should live is a very practical question. Anyway, this is tangental musing on my part; enjoy your Sunday.
posted by Aidan Kehoe at 2:48 AM on June 10, 2007
Of course, the first question did specifically ask for help in dealing with his son, so judgments on how he deals with the son are ridiculously pertinent.
posted by jacalata at 6:01 AM on June 10, 2007
posted by jacalata at 6:01 AM on June 10, 2007
Alright, Grod -- go forth and sin no more
Who's being judgmental?
posted by Bort at 6:39 AM on June 10, 2007
Who's being judgmental?
posted by Bort at 6:39 AM on June 10, 2007
Those posts weren't a big deal, just a bit of tough love which the original posters could use. Go have a soft, gooelicious brownie and hush.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2007
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2007
Alright, Grod -- go forth and sin no more
"Who's being judgmental?"
Oversensitive much? Besides, Methylviolet was quoting a story where someone famously stepped in to stop a rather harsh judgment. What immediately preceded the quoted phrase was "neither do I condemn you."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:12 AM on June 10, 2007
"Who's being judgmental?"
Oversensitive much? Besides, Methylviolet was quoting a story where someone famously stepped in to stop a rather harsh judgment. What immediately preceded the quoted phrase was "neither do I condemn you."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:12 AM on June 10, 2007
Pater Aletheias - What was Jesus writing on the ground with his finger?
posted by Rumple at 9:28 AM on June 10, 2007
posted by Rumple at 9:28 AM on June 10, 2007
tic-tac-toe board?
posted by exlotuseater at 9:39 AM on June 10, 2007
posted by exlotuseater at 9:39 AM on June 10, 2007
No, it was 867-5309.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2007
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2007
Alright, Grod -- go forth and sin no more.
Oh grow up. Even if Grod was being judgemental and offensive (he wasn't), this is the goddamn internet and sometimes people just have to learn to deal with hearing things that might offend them or hurt them or -gasp- not show sensitivity to their special little needs that they believe everyone should tip-toe around.
posted by cmonkey at 11:40 AM on June 10, 2007
Oh grow up. Even if Grod was being judgemental and offensive (he wasn't), this is the goddamn internet and sometimes people just have to learn to deal with hearing things that might offend them or hurt them or -gasp- not show sensitivity to their special little needs that they believe everyone should tip-toe around.
posted by cmonkey at 11:40 AM on June 10, 2007
I think methylviolet is being oversensitive because (as she revealed elsewhere on Mefi) she herself is the mother of a teenager. That is, her long-term trauma has led to special circumstances that merit our concern, not our censure.
posted by davy at 12:00 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by davy at 12:00 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
Pater Aletheias - What was Jesus writing on the ground with his finger?
I'm not sure if you're really asking this, but I'll answer as though you were: no one knows. The most common traditional answer is that he was listing the sins of the accusers, so all them realized that they, too, would be condemned under a strict interpretation of the law. It is kind of interesting that this detail would be preserved in the story with no sort of explanation whatsoever, though.
I'm good with tic-tac-toe board, though.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:05 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure if you're really asking this, but I'll answer as though you were: no one knows. The most common traditional answer is that he was listing the sins of the accusers, so all them realized that they, too, would be condemned under a strict interpretation of the law. It is kind of interesting that this detail would be preserved in the story with no sort of explanation whatsoever, though.
I'm good with tic-tac-toe board, though.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:05 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
Thanks Pater, I was asking seriously, it seemed like the sort of detail that would have served as a blank slate for theologians.
Noughts and crosses, how apt.
posted by Rumple at 1:58 PM on June 10, 2007
Noughts and crosses, how apt.
posted by Rumple at 1:58 PM on June 10, 2007
Kind of crass and uncalled for cheap shot B-han. No one was insulting your Prophet. Xians and muslims have been at odds for far too long, how about we all do our part to end it, huh?
posted by vronsky at 3:56 PM on June 10, 2007
posted by vronsky at 3:56 PM on June 10, 2007
Jesus was actually drawing a picture of Muhammad.
posted by puke & cry at 4:51 PM on June 10, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by puke & cry at 4:51 PM on June 10, 2007 [2 favorites]
Pater Aletheias, thank you for that explanation. Reading your link above, I'm driven to wonder whether Jesus was not making an ironic comment upon Mosaic law, and asserting his own divinity.
Written on imperishable stone tablets by God himself becomes written upon perishable clay by the Son of God made perishable flesh, himself-- for the very purpose, in small part, of replacing that Mosaic law.
posted by jamjam at 5:06 PM on June 10, 2007
Written on imperishable stone tablets by God himself becomes written upon perishable clay by the Son of God made perishable flesh, himself-- for the very purpose, in small part, of replacing that Mosaic law.
posted by jamjam at 5:06 PM on June 10, 2007
My bad then b-han. It gets hard to seperate the signals from the noise around here sometimes. The remark seemed out of place after Pater's intelligent answer.
Astaghfirullah.
posted by vronsky at 5:17 PM on June 10, 2007
Astaghfirullah.
posted by vronsky at 5:17 PM on June 10, 2007
Pater Aletheias, thank you for that explanation. Reading your link above, I'm driven to wonder whether Jesus was not making an ironic comment upon Mosaic law, and asserting his own divinity.
One thing's for sure, he was pretty deftly deflating attempts to use the law to bash people over the head (literally) or assert some sort of superiority over common "sinners." While we're on the topic, that happens to be a unique story in the NT for this fact: in the old manuscripts, it bounces around. In some copies it's in our traditional spot in John 8, but in others it shows up in Luke's Gospel, and in at least two different places. It actually seems to fit Luke's emphasis on women better than it fits John. John doesn't tend to record the sort of pithy saying from Christ that the other three do. In John, Jesus is perpetually speaking in symbolic analogies. My best guess is that it isn't original to any of the four gospels, but was such a great story (and contained such as useful critique of legalism gone awry) that the first scribes kept writing it into the margins of related texts, and two generations later, it was just included as part of the story.
I have at least one translation that now puts it all in footnotes, and another the moves it to the end of John, labeled "another story about Jesus."
There's your Bible trivia for the day. Makes up slightly for all you heathens skipping church again.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:28 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
One thing's for sure, he was pretty deftly deflating attempts to use the law to bash people over the head (literally) or assert some sort of superiority over common "sinners." While we're on the topic, that happens to be a unique story in the NT for this fact: in the old manuscripts, it bounces around. In some copies it's in our traditional spot in John 8, but in others it shows up in Luke's Gospel, and in at least two different places. It actually seems to fit Luke's emphasis on women better than it fits John. John doesn't tend to record the sort of pithy saying from Christ that the other three do. In John, Jesus is perpetually speaking in symbolic analogies. My best guess is that it isn't original to any of the four gospels, but was such a great story (and contained such as useful critique of legalism gone awry) that the first scribes kept writing it into the margins of related texts, and two generations later, it was just included as part of the story.
I have at least one translation that now puts it all in footnotes, and another the moves it to the end of John, labeled "another story about Jesus."
There's your Bible trivia for the day. Makes up slightly for all you heathens skipping church again.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:28 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
"sometimes people just have to learn to deal with hearing things that might offend them or hurt them or -gasp- not show sensitivity to their special little needs that they believe everyone should tip-toe around."
Bullshit. Methylviolet has no history of being hypersensitive to trivial matters on these boards. "Squeezed out of her cunt" is pretty vile when talking about any mother or any woman period. But I love my Mom, so maybe I just can't sympathize enough.
posted by vronsky at 5:31 PM on June 10, 2007
Bullshit. Methylviolet has no history of being hypersensitive to trivial matters on these boards. "Squeezed out of her cunt" is pretty vile when talking about any mother or any woman period. But I love my Mom, so maybe I just can't sympathize enough.
posted by vronsky at 5:31 PM on June 10, 2007
I think it's hysterical how sometimes people get so wrapped up in threads that they don't realize when somebody was kidding. Come on, do you REALLY think Methylviolet seriously thought she was bestowing a blessing upon Grod? No, it was a light-hearted attempt to wrap things up.
posted by Iamtherealme at 7:30 PM on June 10, 2007
posted by Iamtherealme at 7:30 PM on June 10, 2007
quonsar obviously has mother issues.
posted by vronsky at 7:52 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by vronsky at 7:52 PM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]
I've been looking for an excuse to post this handy posting guide. Not sure if I'm obeying its rules, though.
posted by anthill at 8:02 PM on June 10, 2007
posted by anthill at 8:02 PM on June 10, 2007
If I may, I think quonsar is being oversensitive because (as he revealed elsewhere on Mefi) he himself has fish in his pants. That is, his long-term pescine trauma has led to special circumstances that merit our concern, not our censure.
posted by ormondsacker at 8:22 PM on June 10, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by ormondsacker at 8:22 PM on June 10, 2007 [2 favorites]
"I think quonsar is being oversensitive because (as he revealed elsewhere on Mefi) he himself has fish in his pants."
In his pockets, I hope.
I agree with The Q about AskMetafilter. A half-assed websearch will find more and better information than most Mefites could pull from their arses in ages.
posted by davy at 11:08 PM on June 10, 2007
In his pockets, I hope.
I agree with The Q about AskMetafilter. A half-assed websearch will find more and better information than most Mefites could pull from their arses in ages.
posted by davy at 11:08 PM on June 10, 2007
quonsar obviously has mother issues.
quonsar has the mother of all issues.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:09 AM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
quonsar has the mother of all issues.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:09 AM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think we should make AskMetaTalk for all these threads about that other site, AskMetafilter. They get in the way of the good shit.
posted by dios at 8:13 AM on June 11, 2007
posted by dios at 8:13 AM on June 11, 2007
Are you nuts, Dios? This is the good shit.
We go from low-grade bitching to meditations on judgment vs. judgementalism to a sweet demonstration of community to an interesting bit of theology from the rockin'-cool Pater Aletheias, to fish in the urethra. And I may yet flame out. Jeez, what more could you want?
If I didn't think it would leave me open to charges of stirring the pot deliberately here (which I'm not! Honest!) I'd observe that I usually find MetaTalk threads about AskMe more interesting than AskMe itself. It's the rare question there that I can answer, or find relevant to my own life, but the discussions here about what this community is to its various members, what is a good question and what is a good answer, the witticisms, the fish in the urethra, are always good. I think the interactions among members -- most of whom have never met and so are interacting purely as minds -- are fascinating. Some people are alphas, some people hate each other, some people are known for throwing oil on the waters (or gasoline on the fires). And Vronsky thinks I'm hot, despite the extra four hundred pounds and the 'stache.
Yeah. Good shit.
posted by Methylviolet at 10:00 AM on June 11, 2007
We go from low-grade bitching to meditations on judgment vs. judgementalism to a sweet demonstration of community to an interesting bit of theology from the rockin'-cool Pater Aletheias, to fish in the urethra. And I may yet flame out. Jeez, what more could you want?
If I didn't think it would leave me open to charges of stirring the pot deliberately here (which I'm not! Honest!) I'd observe that I usually find MetaTalk threads about AskMe more interesting than AskMe itself. It's the rare question there that I can answer, or find relevant to my own life, but the discussions here about what this community is to its various members, what is a good question and what is a good answer, the witticisms, the fish in the urethra, are always good. I think the interactions among members -- most of whom have never met and so are interacting purely as minds -- are fascinating. Some people are alphas, some people hate each other, some people are known for throwing oil on the waters (or gasoline on the fires). And Vronsky thinks I'm hot, despite the extra four hundred pounds and the 'stache.
Yeah. Good shit.
posted by Methylviolet at 10:00 AM on June 11, 2007
Jesus listing the sins of the accusers with his finger, in the dirt: the first passive-aggressive note?
I agree that it is odd such a detail was preserved without explanation, it must be one of those prompts for meditation on the lesson, I suspect.
posted by Rumple at 11:33 AM on June 11, 2007
I agree that it is odd such a detail was preserved without explanation, it must be one of those prompts for meditation on the lesson, I suspect.
posted by Rumple at 11:33 AM on June 11, 2007
A half-assed websearch will find more and better information than most Mefites could pull from their arses in ages.
Unless they have a half-assed websearch in their arse.
posted by davejay at 5:44 PM on June 11, 2007
Unless they have a half-assed websearch in their arse.
posted by davejay at 5:44 PM on June 11, 2007
I'd rather pull a websearch from my arse than a fish from my weiner, fershure.
posted by davy at 7:19 PM on June 11, 2007
posted by davy at 7:19 PM on June 11, 2007
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You'll never help your son?
How does that help?
posted by Methylviolet at 8:15 PM on June 9, 2007