When I'm good I'm very good, but when I'm bad ... March 17, 2008 3:32 AM Subscribe
I offer an unqualified apology to Malor and anyone else who might have been offended by my comments.
I was appalled as I re-read some of my last few comments in that thread.
I value MeFi in general - and the finance threads specifically - very much due to the high signal to noise ratio. I fear that some of my comments may have increased the denominator and for that I apologise.
I should be able - and generally am - capable of entertaining different views and, if not driving towards consensus, than at least disagreeing amicably. I'm generally better at sensing when I'm pushing folks too hard and backing off or changing tact to achieve consensus. This time I failed at both initiatives and for that I apologise.
It was not and never is my iniative to stifle debate or the expression of views, and if any of my comments were perceived that way I apologise. I value all contributions to these threads, Malor's specifically. I've pointed this out before, and I will say this again - he & I agree far more than we disagree. Once again, if my comments had the effect of surpressing the free exchange of views, I apologise.
There were lots of reasons why I wasn't on top of my game yesterday; none are germane to MeFi or that thread, and should not be interpreted as an excuse for my behaviour, but :
crappy ass weather here in London, someone leached our high speed broadband for six days last week and because they downloaded 30GB of OnlyTheGoodLordKnowsWhat we're capped at 56kps for the next week, construction work on The Tube made it impossible for us to leave The Ghetto yesterday to see a Bansky show in Kensington, changes to non-dom tax rules means our bills have sharply increased unless we leave England, Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs suddenly decided to increase the duty levied on MP3 players I import from China, because of booming sales we have to register our business for VAT which is a total PIA, due to the bandwidth leaching we had to migrate away from WEP and now the entire second floor of our flat is off the wireless LAN as the older Macs run OS X 10.2 and can't speak PKA, all day yesterday I was having problems using Carbon Copy Cloner to get 10.4 onto the older Macs, Tower Hamlets Council is hassling me about the security gates I installed on my flat eight years ago, I guess I could work in a few more issues of a highly personal nature that some of you might find disgusting but I'll just stop here ...
I like to think it hasn't happened before, but I can say with certainty that iit won't happen again folks.
I'm aware there are some interesting points added to that thread after my last comment, but I'm late for work, and as Monday's are busy meeting days for me I will have to revisit the thread later this evening.
Take care
Mutant
I was appalled as I re-read some of my last few comments in that thread.
I value MeFi in general - and the finance threads specifically - very much due to the high signal to noise ratio. I fear that some of my comments may have increased the denominator and for that I apologise.
I should be able - and generally am - capable of entertaining different views and, if not driving towards consensus, than at least disagreeing amicably. I'm generally better at sensing when I'm pushing folks too hard and backing off or changing tact to achieve consensus. This time I failed at both initiatives and for that I apologise.
It was not and never is my iniative to stifle debate or the expression of views, and if any of my comments were perceived that way I apologise. I value all contributions to these threads, Malor's specifically. I've pointed this out before, and I will say this again - he & I agree far more than we disagree. Once again, if my comments had the effect of surpressing the free exchange of views, I apologise.
There were lots of reasons why I wasn't on top of my game yesterday; none are germane to MeFi or that thread, and should not be interpreted as an excuse for my behaviour, but :
crappy ass weather here in London, someone leached our high speed broadband for six days last week and because they downloaded 30GB of OnlyTheGoodLordKnowsWhat we're capped at 56kps for the next week, construction work on The Tube made it impossible for us to leave The Ghetto yesterday to see a Bansky show in Kensington, changes to non-dom tax rules means our bills have sharply increased unless we leave England, Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs suddenly decided to increase the duty levied on MP3 players I import from China, because of booming sales we have to register our business for VAT which is a total PIA, due to the bandwidth leaching we had to migrate away from WEP and now the entire second floor of our flat is off the wireless LAN as the older Macs run OS X 10.2 and can't speak PKA, all day yesterday I was having problems using Carbon Copy Cloner to get 10.4 onto the older Macs, Tower Hamlets Council is hassling me about the security gates I installed on my flat eight years ago, I guess I could work in a few more issues of a highly personal nature that some of you might find disgusting but I'll just stop here ...
I like to think it hasn't happened before, but I can say with certainty that iit won't happen again folks.
I'm aware there are some interesting points added to that thread after my last comment, but I'm late for work, and as Monday's are busy meeting days for me I will have to revisit the thread later this evening.
Take care
Mutant
Mutant, I found your comments to be almost 100% interesting and informative.
Towards the end, sure, it got pretty tiresome watching you and Malor argue over what seemed to my outsider's perspective, almost pure semantics, but I don't think that either of you went over the line.
(though I really wish that the two of you could have agreed to disagree re: definition of "bubble")...
posted by gregvr at 4:21 AM on March 17, 2008
Towards the end, sure, it got pretty tiresome watching you and Malor argue over what seemed to my outsider's perspective, almost pure semantics, but I don't think that either of you went over the line.
(though I really wish that the two of you could have agreed to disagree re: definition of "bubble")...
posted by gregvr at 4:21 AM on March 17, 2008
What's a 14 k'r?
posted by gregvr at 4:44 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by gregvr at 4:44 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, it was quite civil, and I loved the historical parallels (and I just like saying "tulip mania"!). A bit of a tedious quarrel over definitions, but nothing to castigate yourself over, methinks. If nothing else, thanks for the insightful comments, the both of you!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:49 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:49 AM on March 17, 2008
1/28th of a retirement fund.
posted by Skorgu at 4:50 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Skorgu at 4:50 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
A 14k'er is a user with a user ID between 14000 and 14999 inclusive.
posted by mkb at 4:54 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by mkb at 4:54 AM on March 17, 2008
also, don't offend Mutant too much, or he'll burn your house down.
posted by mkb at 4:55 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by mkb at 4:55 AM on March 17, 2008
Mutant, I'd rather read you grumpily nitpick over economic semantics than anything a lot of other people have to say on any subject. I can think of few people in any field with the inside knowledge you have who debate so openly with amateurs and are as ready to acknowledge they themselves might not know all the answers.
Besides, it was interesting to see the collision in that thread. Malor sees the sky falling in, believes that certain economics professionals are responsible and so is uninterested in changing his language from lay usage to insider usage. You are the insider for whom accurate use of the terminology is a prerequisite for a certain amount of respect. For him the word 'bubble' is a way of linking today to disasters of the past, for you, it is a piece of your overall understanding. Unreconcilable.
And sorry to read what I assume is a reference to piles.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2008
Besides, it was interesting to see the collision in that thread. Malor sees the sky falling in, believes that certain economics professionals are responsible and so is uninterested in changing his language from lay usage to insider usage. You are the insider for whom accurate use of the terminology is a prerequisite for a certain amount of respect. For him the word 'bubble' is a way of linking today to disasters of the past, for you, it is a piece of your overall understanding. Unreconcilable.
And sorry to read what I assume is a reference to piles.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 5:42 AM on March 17, 2008
After a series of seemingly endless high-profile account closings and narcissistic callouts, this classy apology is a breath of fresh air. Thanks for showing us how its done, Mutant.
posted by googly at 5:52 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by googly at 5:52 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
I tried really really hard to get offended by anything you wrote Mutant. I couldn't manage it. Protip: Try being less coherent, USE CAPS and draw allusions between members of Malor's family and farmyard animals. If that doesn't do it, I usually fall back on the word "cock-breath."
posted by Jofus at 5:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Jofus at 5:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
Huh? I have no idea what you're apologizing for. You were argumentative, sure, but that's what MeFi is all about, as long as it's done on the level of clashing ideas rather than personal insults, and this was definitely the former. I think Busy Old Fool analyzed your and Malor's disagreement very well, and for what it's worth I thought you had the better of it (I hate when people say "The hell with your definitions and numbers, this is no time to be picky, the sky is falling!"). But it's certainly better to err on the side of politeness, so good for you for caring.
posted by languagehat at 7:00 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by languagehat at 7:00 AM on March 17, 2008
Am I the only one who copy and pasted the ever-tinier list of complaints to see what it said? Yes? Okay, carry on then.
posted by sugarfish at 7:04 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by sugarfish at 7:04 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Classy apology, although I think it's unnecessary. I, too, think you had the better of it, presenting not only the more measured, but also the more referenced view.
posted by OmieWise at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by OmieWise at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Also, could you please show up in this thread? Thanks.
posted by languagehat at 7:28 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by languagehat at 7:28 AM on March 17, 2008
I love financial threads precisely because of the level of discourse and the variety of opinions. I personally oscillate in my opinion of Malor between: "The guy's nuts, grab 'im!" and "Preach on, brother!" But Mutant, I've always found you to be erudite and insightful. Either way, I praise the differences and cheer the disagreements. There is no black and white truth, but goddamn it if there isn't some shred of civilization and mutual respect in those threads that makes them better than ten times (by volume) all the Obama, Iraq, and the rest of the newsfilter ilk combined.
posted by Eideteker at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by Eideteker at 7:33 AM on March 17, 2008
What Eideteker said.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by kuujjuarapik at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2008
Mutant, you are being overly self-critical. I don't see anything inappropriate with your comments.
The finance threads are interesting for me to read. There are a lot of comments from people who are putting time and effort into discussing a topic and that is appreciated.
Now if we could only get rid of the dumbasses who clearly have nothing to contribute but Chicken Little screaming and predictions of post-apocalyptic wastelands every time futures are down... then those threads would be a real joy of Metafilter.
posted by dios at 7:45 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
The finance threads are interesting for me to read. There are a lot of comments from people who are putting time and effort into discussing a topic and that is appreciated.
Now if we could only get rid of the dumbasses who clearly have nothing to contribute but Chicken Little screaming and predictions of post-apocalyptic wastelands every time futures are down... then those threads would be a real joy of Metafilter.
posted by dios at 7:45 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Chicken Little screaming and predictions of post-apocalyptic wastelands every time futures are down...
I'm no economist, but isn't that part of the game?
posted by kuujjuarapik at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm no economist, but isn't that part of the game?
posted by kuujjuarapik at 7:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd like to offer my unqualified apology for flunking my Apology Qualification Certification Exam.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd offer my condolences but I'm not a licensed condoler.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:05 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:05 AM on March 17, 2008
You can get a temporary permit for that. It even comes with a side of steamed short-grain; 'condol-leaser rice', the dish is called.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:19 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:19 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
"Also, could you please show up in this thread? Thanks."
I was kind of hoping for that too.
posted by 517 at 8:23 AM on March 17, 2008
I was kind of hoping for that too.
posted by 517 at 8:23 AM on March 17, 2008
Ouch, cortex...still not quite at ricer car levels...
posted by StrikeTheViol at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by StrikeTheViol at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Looking over your comments, I don't think you have anything to apologize for, Mutant. It is possible to stridently disagree with someone and still maintain a respectful air. (not suggesting that you have been strident, just making a point), if you ever crossed into outright disrespect, I didn't see it.
Now, next time, when you really want to be offensive, I'd suggest referencing your cock. Several times. Only at the end do you reveal that you are a talking about your pet male chicken, and when people get pissy about it, call them out for being sexist. Then, suggest that the admins are somehow at fault, and that you are being persecuted for your strange sense of humor.
See if you can get called out in two different MeTa threads in a single day, and then you will know that you are starting to get under people's skins.
Till then, you should be fine.
I do tip my hat to your effort though. It's good that you care enough to apologize for a perceived slight, even if none was apparent. I think it says good things about your character.
posted by quin at 8:45 AM on March 17, 2008
Now, next time, when you really want to be offensive, I'd suggest referencing your cock. Several times. Only at the end do you reveal that you are a talking about your pet male chicken, and when people get pissy about it, call them out for being sexist. Then, suggest that the admins are somehow at fault, and that you are being persecuted for your strange sense of humor.
See if you can get called out in two different MeTa threads in a single day, and then you will know that you are starting to get under people's skins.
Till then, you should be fine.
I do tip my hat to your effort though. It's good that you care enough to apologize for a perceived slight, even if none was apparent. I think it says good things about your character.
posted by quin at 8:45 AM on March 17, 2008
Mutant, your contributions to financial threads are invaluable. Please keep up the good work.
Also thirding what Eideteker said.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 8:52 AM on March 17, 2008
Also thirding what Eideteker said.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 8:52 AM on March 17, 2008
Not to put too fine a point on it Quin, but if he references cocks he must use "a bucket of...".
Otherwise it's just plain tacky.
agreed with the above, thought your comments were insightful and well argued. MORE!PLZ!
posted by Wilder at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2008
Otherwise it's just plain tacky.
agreed with the above, thought your comments were insightful and well argued. MORE!PLZ!
posted by Wilder at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2008
"You can get a temporary permit for that. It even comes with a side of steamed short-grain; 'condol-leaser rice', the dish is called."
Sounds nice, my mom always told me "never obtain chit where you eat".
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2008
Sounds nice, my mom always told me "never obtain chit where you eat".
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2008
You had nothing to apologize for, Mutant. Malor posts a chicken little post every time the financial markets take a bump, and has for several years. It's good to provide a clear, documented counterpoint to such nonsense, lest people get scared and dump all their money under the mattress.
posted by felix at 9:16 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by felix at 9:16 AM on March 17, 2008
Wait, wait. Back up. Why is the bear stern?
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:48 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:48 AM on March 17, 2008
Never mind that. Where is my beer stein?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:04 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:04 AM on March 17, 2008
*froths*
posted by middleclasstool at 11:05 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by middleclasstool at 11:05 AM on March 17, 2008
*makes latte*
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:53 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:53 AM on March 17, 2008
felix writes "t's good to provide a clear, documented counterpoint to such nonsense, lest people get scared and dump all their money under the mattress."
Whew!
*pulls out $9.18 from under the mattress*
Think I'm gonna buy some gold with this!
posted by krinklyfig at 12:14 PM on March 17, 2008
Whew!
*pulls out $9.18 from under the mattress*
Think I'm gonna buy some gold with this!
posted by krinklyfig at 12:14 PM on March 17, 2008
You guys are all drunk because it is St Baldrick's day.
posted by Nick Verstayne at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by Nick Verstayne at 12:27 PM on March 17, 2008
This isn't an afternoon special until Malor comes in and they drink tea together.
And I have also made some lousy comments lately. A hell of a lot worse and meaner than Mutant's. No excuses really, not worth opening a new thread for. Just keep in mind, if you're offended by what I post, that my brain is garbage.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:20 PM on March 17, 2008
And I have also made some lousy comments lately. A hell of a lot worse and meaner than Mutant's. No excuses really, not worth opening a new thread for. Just keep in mind, if you're offended by what I post, that my brain is garbage.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:20 PM on March 17, 2008
You got 'em from the Diet of Worms, amirite?
posted by languagehat at 1:49 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by languagehat at 1:49 PM on March 17, 2008
No, a friend and I are opening a pet store and that's what we're gonna call it. I got worms! We're gonna specialize in selling worm farms. You know, like ant farms.
posted by vronsky at 2:10 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by vronsky at 2:10 PM on March 17, 2008
Mutant, though I didn't see the comments in question, I generally like what you contribute to those threads. I like how you usually bring a measured response to what can be mostly hysterical conversations. Knowing what you do for a living, your comments are the ones I always scan the financial threads for and I think you should post more.
posted by triggerfinger at 2:11 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by triggerfinger at 2:11 PM on March 17, 2008
We're gonna specialize in selling worm farms.
Good luck with that!
posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on March 17, 2008
Good luck with that!
posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on March 17, 2008
Everybody buys the worm farm someday.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 2:37 PM on March 17, 2008
posted by kuujjuarapik at 2:37 PM on March 17, 2008
Mutant, you're one of the most intersting contributors here on (among other things) finance. We could all do with a bit more of listening to people who do this shit for a living.
I did follow the thread and was going to pitch on on the 100x point (notional swap amounts, I thought) but decided that I didn't want to put my take in Malor's mouth. I feel strongly that you have nothing to apologise for.
posted by dmt at 2:57 PM on March 17, 2008
I did follow the thread and was going to pitch on on the 100x point (notional swap amounts, I thought) but decided that I didn't want to put my take in Malor's mouth. I feel strongly that you have nothing to apologise for.
posted by dmt at 2:57 PM on March 17, 2008
Am I the only one who copy and pasted the ever-tinier list of complaints to see what it said?
Thanks! I was wondering how anyone was able to read that.
*throws away magnifying glass*
*applauds Mutant for his classiness*
*sees if he can type any smaller than this*
*yay, looks like I can, and I figured it out all on my own!*
posted by hadjiboy at 10:46 PM on March 17, 2008
Thanks! I was wondering how anyone was able to read that.
*throws away magnifying glass*
*applauds Mutant for his classiness*
*sees if he can type any smaller than this*
*yay, looks like I can, and I figured it out all on my own!*
posted by hadjiboy at 10:46 PM on March 17, 2008
Wow many thanks for the kind words folks - much appreciated!
posted by Mutant at 2:57 AM on March 18, 2008
posted by Mutant at 2:57 AM on March 18, 2008
Late to the thread, but I'd also like to mention that I enjoy reading Mutant's point of view on things. I don't think you were making any personal attacks in the thread, Mutant, but I enjoy the way you start 'Sir'-ing people when you're riled.
posted by onalark at 8:14 AM on March 18, 2008
posted by onalark at 8:14 AM on March 18, 2008
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
All I saw was a bunch of stuff about financial markets before my eyes glazed over.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:02 AM on March 17, 2008