MeFiNo March 23, 2008 8:19 PM Subscribe
Hey MeFi, who's up for a game of Nomic?
We could play on the wiki.
We could play on the wiki.
The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules, debating the wisdom of changing them in that way, voting on the changes, deciding what can and cannot be done afterwards, and doing it. Even this core of the game, of course, can be changed.
Sounds like MetaTalk. Haven't we been playing Nomic here for about 8 years now?
posted by ALongDecember at 8:46 PM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
Sounds like MetaTalk. Haven't we been playing Nomic here for about 8 years now?
posted by ALongDecember at 8:46 PM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
I propose you give me $100 to win.
posted by Falconetti at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by Falconetti at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2008
I propose that you need to have the user-name "KokuRyu" to comment in this thread.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:51 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by KokuRyu at 8:51 PM on March 23, 2008
Read some of the games that have been played for years and a lot of the rules surround what to do when people become disinterested and stop playing. Still sounds like fun.
posted by jeblis at 8:55 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by jeblis at 8:55 PM on March 23, 2008
I propose all votes of "yes" to a new rule are automatically switched to "no"; all votes of "no" are then changed to "tuna fish on rye."
posted by not_on_display at 8:57 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by not_on_display at 8:57 PM on March 23, 2008
Yay.
Ok. So here's the MeFi Nomic page.
Nomic on Wikipedia and Peter Suber's piece explaining Nomic.
From the Wikipedia: Games of Nomic sometimes last for a very long time - Agora has been running since 1993.
posted by Taksi Putra at 8:59 PM on March 23, 2008
Ok. So here's the MeFi Nomic page.
Nomic on Wikipedia and Peter Suber's piece explaining Nomic.
From the Wikipedia: Games of Nomic sometimes last for a very long time - Agora has been running since 1993.
posted by Taksi Putra at 8:59 PM on March 23, 2008
I'm in.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:07 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:07 PM on March 23, 2008
Man, I am so game. I actually got inspired to start in on a simple blog-inspired ruleset after I made that post, but I didn't get passed a partial first draft (which you can check out here).
There's a question of starting point: standard Suber ruleset is kind of heavy, but there are some common stripped-down sets that might make for a quicker and less legalistic start to the game.
Another question: whether we want to conduct this whole thing on the actual mefi wiki or if it'd be better to set up a separate wiki space so as not to pollute the hell out of the main wiki with a bunch of game noise. My inclination is to play it elsewhere while using the main wiki as staging/organizational ground, personally.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:17 PM on March 23, 2008
There's a question of starting point: standard Suber ruleset is kind of heavy, but there are some common stripped-down sets that might make for a quicker and less legalistic start to the game.
Another question: whether we want to conduct this whole thing on the actual mefi wiki or if it'd be better to set up a separate wiki space so as not to pollute the hell out of the main wiki with a bunch of game noise. My inclination is to play it elsewhere while using the main wiki as staging/organizational ground, personally.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:17 PM on March 23, 2008
My proposal is that all subsequent proposals be proposed in such a way that they sound vaguely like an inappropriate sexual proposal.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
I propose that those in favor of stavros' proposal should admire his cock and pullet.
posted by bonobo at 9:34 PM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by bonobo at 9:34 PM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
So is this a "the only winning move is not to play?" type scenario?
posted by ODiV at 9:41 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by ODiV at 9:41 PM on March 23, 2008
I would, but I'm in the middle of a round of Mornington Crescent at the moment, and it's getting a bit sticky.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2008
I went to the Mefi Nomic page and all it says is:
This page is for Mefi Nomic.
Where and when do we play?
posted by amyms at 9:57 PM on March 23, 2008
This page is for Mefi Nomic.
Where and when do we play?
posted by amyms at 9:57 PM on March 23, 2008
I propose a toast...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 PM on March 23, 2008
If we can get it started, sure. I've always been interested in playing a nomic, but most discussions usually get as far as this -- everyone saying how cool it'd be and nobody wanting to get it together to start it.
posted by flatluigi at 10:07 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by flatluigi at 10:07 PM on March 23, 2008
Hm, Hello.
Any changes proposed must be voted on.
This means we need to know how many people are active in the game.
So what I say is, head over to the MeFi Nomic page.
Put your name in the list when you've read the rules and are ready to play.
Let's start the first round when 29 people are ready.
(Why 29? Dunno. 29 initial rules. Something to start it off etc.)
posted by Taksi Putra at 10:25 PM on March 23, 2008
Any changes proposed must be voted on.
This means we need to know how many people are active in the game.
So what I say is, head over to the MeFi Nomic page.
Put your name in the list when you've read the rules and are ready to play.
Let's start the first round when 29 people are ready.
(Why 29? Dunno. 29 initial rules. Something to start it off etc.)
posted by Taksi Putra at 10:25 PM on March 23, 2008
So after reading the rules, it looks like murder and cannibalism are allowed?
I don't think I'd be up for that.
posted by ODiV at 10:34 PM on March 23, 2008
I don't think I'd be up for that.
posted by ODiV at 10:34 PM on March 23, 2008
So after reading the rules, it looks like murder and cannibalism are allowed?
Can we kill the Travelocity Nome? I'd be up for that.
[NOT GNOMIC]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:39 PM on March 23, 2008
Can we kill the Travelocity Nome? I'd be up for that.
[NOT GNOMIC]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:39 PM on March 23, 2008
Oddly, I think I'm in. But I'm road bizzy for two-three weeks. See you then.
posted by mwhybark at 10:43 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by mwhybark at 10:43 PM on March 23, 2008
huh, my microphone just went dead... NO MIC!!!
I'm in. I am so in. Could I be any more in? I am in like Flynn, Flint and Flintstone. I am so in, I'm in danger of falling out the other end. My in-ness can not be denied. I am in the groove, in the mood, in style, in luck, in condition, in a meeting, in so much trouble and in with the in crowd. I am totally into this. I AM AN INNIE!
posted by wendell at 11:16 PM on March 23, 2008
I'm in. I am so in. Could I be any more in? I am in like Flynn, Flint and Flintstone. I am so in, I'm in danger of falling out the other end. My in-ness can not be denied. I am in the groove, in the mood, in style, in luck, in condition, in a meeting, in so much trouble and in with the in crowd. I am totally into this. I AM AN INNIE!
posted by wendell at 11:16 PM on March 23, 2008
acorncup is right - this is just a nerdy Calvin Ball.
posted by Corduroy at 3:41 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by Corduroy at 3:41 AM on March 24, 2008
He's in.
posted by flabdablet's sock puppet at 3:44 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by flabdablet's sock puppet at 3:44 AM on March 24, 2008
Awesome. I call dibs on Hygiene Officer.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:26 AM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:26 AM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Where and when do we play?"
- amyms
"I ache in the places where I used to play."
- Leonard Cohen
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:05 AM on March 24, 2008
- amyms
"I ache in the places where I used to play."
- Leonard Cohen
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:05 AM on March 24, 2008
I don't know what Nomic is, but I just lost The Game.
ah FUCK!!
posted by 1 at 9:38 AM on March 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
ah FUCK!!
posted by 1 at 9:38 AM on March 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
I'm up for it. You'll be my first, so be gentle.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by backseatpilot at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2008
Hey can I play? I don't know how to put myself on the wiki list.
posted by Mister_A at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 10:29 AM on March 24, 2008
Ha! I learned how! Forget I posted that, I don't want to show any sign of weakness.
posted by Mister_A at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 10:30 AM on March 24, 2008
I'm in-ish.
posted by klangklangston at 11:41 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 11:41 AM on March 24, 2008
Aaaaand… from the look of the wiki, we've already abandoned good faith and moved towards the absurdity and self-destruction inherent in unbounded consensus models!
posted by klangklangston at 11:43 AM on March 24, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 11:43 AM on March 24, 2008
I think varying expectations as to how the game is to proceed, and how play will be tracked and organized, may be a big challenge to getting this off the ground (varying previous Nomic experiences, if any, being a big part of those expectations). Then again, you could argue that it's already happily underway and I'm just yelling at people on my lawn, so, hey.
For what its worth, a dedicated mailing list or listserv has been the central means of communication in the few organized games I've played; the wiki can be a great way to actually track the state of the game, but it presents a challenge as a means of notification—you're depending on players to check the site in order for anything that requires action to happen, which can make it awfully hard to get things responded to in a timely fashion. Not to say it can't be done, and maybe a ruleset that accomodates votes by plurality or quorum rather than something requiring more or less everyone to respond one way or the other can keep things moving.
But I do find myself hoping for a little more clear an idea of how the business end of playing is going to be conducted. If it is all happening on the wiki, how? Etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
For what its worth, a dedicated mailing list or listserv has been the central means of communication in the few organized games I've played; the wiki can be a great way to actually track the state of the game, but it presents a challenge as a means of notification—you're depending on players to check the site in order for anything that requires action to happen, which can make it awfully hard to get things responded to in a timely fashion. Not to say it can't be done, and maybe a ruleset that accomodates votes by plurality or quorum rather than something requiring more or less everyone to respond one way or the other can keep things moving.
But I do find myself hoping for a little more clear an idea of how the business end of playing is going to be conducted. If it is all happening on the wiki, how? Etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on March 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
You could use your awesome mod powers and create a permanently-open thread here for the nomic game.
posted by flatluigi at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by flatluigi at 12:12 PM on March 24, 2008
If we have a functioning nomic game in a thread here (I have doubts about that working well, but I have doubts about lots of things that end up working out) and the only thing getting in the way is the approach of the thirty day mark, we can worry about that then.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:16 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:16 PM on March 24, 2008
I was thinking that using a thread for the discussion and linear play of the game that could easily be followed by the RSS feed or other methods while simultaneously using a wiki page for the rules just might work.
posted by flatluigi at 12:20 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by flatluigi at 12:20 PM on March 24, 2008
cortex: each turn can be a new page - "301" will be the first guy on turn 1. The talk page can be debate, there can be a vote form pasted at the bottom of each of these turn pages when it is time to vote.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by Meatbomb at 12:40 PM on March 24, 2008
A wiki could be a problem as there is currently no rule against going back and editing the rules, editing the results of past votes, editing peoples' turns, etc. I guess that's part of the game, though. . .
posted by 1 at 1:51 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by 1 at 1:51 PM on March 24, 2008
How long would players have to debate and vote on each turn? No time limit? I'd be interested in playing if I didn't have to commit to spending a certain amount of time every day.
posted by agropyron at 2:19 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by agropyron at 2:19 PM on March 24, 2008
I'm signed up - let's see where this goes.
Oh, and definite novice here. But it already looks interesting.
posted by mosessis at 2:47 PM on March 24, 2008
Oh, and definite novice here. But it already looks interesting.
posted by mosessis at 2:47 PM on March 24, 2008
If I had any idea what the hell Nomic is about, I'd join. But after reading the Nomic page, the wiki and the rules, I can't has understand Nomic.
posted by slogger at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by slogger at 2:56 PM on March 24, 2008
Yeah, I'm with slogger. Perhaps watching the first game will help make sense of it all.
I will cheer you from the sidelines.
(unless someone makes a rule against it)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:22 PM on March 24, 2008
I will cheer you from the sidelines.
(unless someone makes a rule against it)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:22 PM on March 24, 2008
The wiki got convoluted right off the bat, so I tossed up a Drupal to separate the rules from the proposed rules and their surrounding discussions.
Register here and you'll be able to edit the main rules page like on the wiki.
You can post a Rule Proposal, and I'm working on the voting system.
There's a forum for discussion that falls outside any particular rule proposal.
Whaddya think?
posted by jayCampbell at 6:54 PM on March 24, 2008
Register here and you'll be able to edit the main rules page like on the wiki.
You can post a Rule Proposal, and I'm working on the voting system.
There's a forum for discussion that falls outside any particular rule proposal.
Whaddya think?
posted by jayCampbell at 6:54 PM on March 24, 2008
Hello. I wrote down some ideas on the Talk page.
jay your Drupal looks sweet.
posted by Taksi Putra at 7:05 PM on March 24, 2008
jay your Drupal looks sweet.
posted by Taksi Putra at 7:05 PM on March 24, 2008
Thanks - in theory I have a 5-star rating system for use on group voting on proposals now. I did google for "drupal nomic" before starting down this road...
posted by jayCampbell at 7:13 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by jayCampbell at 7:13 PM on March 24, 2008
I propose calling the drupal's copy of the ruleset the official source, using its proposal/voting system, and moving further discussion into its forum system. Any objections, Taksi Putra?
posted by jayCampbell at 7:22 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by jayCampbell at 7:22 PM on March 24, 2008
So noted on the front page. 1 needs to go here to submit his proposal. Let the game begin.
posted by jayCampbell at 7:36 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by jayCampbell at 7:36 PM on March 24, 2008
The second blogshares setup is fail: on wiki we can easily see history, who edited what.
On blogshares anyone can fill the "proposed new rule", although it should be only 1 (or is it !Jim?) who should be able to do that now. The invitation on blogshares "If you don't like the rules, propose a rule change!" is misleading.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:49 PM on March 24, 2008
On blogshares anyone can fill the "proposed new rule", although it should be only 1 (or is it !Jim?) who should be able to do that now. The invitation on blogshares "If you don't like the rules, propose a rule change!" is misleading.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:49 PM on March 24, 2008
I would like to publicly state that it seems someone is using my "Meatbomb" handle on the nomic sites. I am not sure who Aaron A Aaronson is, but he is NOT Meatbomb, and should therefore not appear in turn sequence based on my name here, but on the name he has stated on the nomic board, i.e. he should be at the top of the list because his name is Aaron.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:58 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by Meatbomb at 7:58 PM on March 24, 2008
I just gave everyone 'view revisions' perms on the Drupal so changes will be transparent.
I'll fix that verbiage too.
posted by jayCampbell at 8:06 PM on March 24, 2008
I'll fix that verbiage too.
posted by jayCampbell at 8:06 PM on March 24, 2008
Umm looks like people have already edited rules on the Wiki and the other page. Who authorized this?
posted by jeblis at 8:31 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by jeblis at 8:31 PM on March 24, 2008
Since this is supposed to be metafilter related, at least in origin, and as there have been suggestions to run some of it over here, surely we need to know the metafilter usernames of everyone involved? It seems a bit weird (to me anyway) to join in a metafilter game without wanting anyone to know who you are on metafilter itself?
I guess I could always save that up as my rule revision.
(no clue how this is going to work but am looking forward to participating anyway)
posted by shelleycat at 8:45 PM on March 24, 2008
I guess I could always save that up as my rule revision.
(no clue how this is going to work but am looking forward to participating anyway)
posted by shelleycat at 8:45 PM on March 24, 2008
I added a profile field for your mefi username.
posted by jayCampbell at 11:27 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by jayCampbell at 11:27 PM on March 24, 2008
Finally, finally! I've been wanting to get back into Nomic since Rishonomic and Ackanomic died out ages and ages ago (along with my childhood, *sniff*).
posted by waxbanks at 8:17 AM on March 25, 2008
posted by waxbanks at 8:17 AM on March 25, 2008
Just in case anyone missed it, the game is in full swing over here. One of our issues is what to do about players who have signed up but not turned up, so if that might be you then get over there and join in before you become ineligible. Start by voting here.
posted by shelleycat at 10:51 PM on March 27, 2008
posted by shelleycat at 10:51 PM on March 27, 2008
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by gerryblog at 8:33 PM on March 23, 2008