Users are people too

August 24, 2008 9:37 AM

I'm tired of the word 'user'. can we use 'members' or 'readers' instead when referring to them e.g. "X users favourited this" etc?

i know its just semantics, but users are people too and as a member of the design profession the choice of words worries me sometimes. besides who wants to be known as a 'user'? Yah, this is a pet peeve

posted by infini to feature requests at 9:37 AM (179 comments total)

You need a hobby.

(Scrapbooking's fun)
posted by deern the headlice at 9:37 AM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I vote in favor of "$0 Freeloaders" and "$5 Suckers", respectively.
posted by Malor at 9:39 AM on August 24, 2008 [11 favorites has favorites]

I couldn't agree with you more. As my husband, who does the occasional crossword puzzle, likes to point out, "four letter word for employer"= "user." He is self-employed, by the way.
posted by emhutchinson at 9:44 AM on August 24, 2008

Is this the thread where I can make "bucket of members" jokes?
posted by StrikeTheViol at 9:44 AM on August 24, 2008

Lusers?
posted by timeistight at 9:45 AM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Supplicants!
posted by StrikeTheViol at 9:46 AM on August 24, 2008

Constituents?
posted by ludwig_van at 9:47 AM on August 24, 2008

I'm just using mefi for my own gratification. The semantics are fine.
posted by jouke at 9:48 AM on August 24, 2008

When I was in grade school, we used to call people who sort of glommed on to other people's popularity "users." It was said with real contempt as well, while sneering. Oh, that Shelley Finkelstein, he's such a user.

So I say we keep it.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:49 AM on August 24, 2008 [4 favorites has favorites]

beg to disagree, jouke, though it could be purely subjective since I'm supposed to be 'user centered' all day - meh, it gets too much to see it all over my playground too
posted by infini at 9:52 AM on August 24, 2008

You can call me 'Sex Symbol,' if you want.
posted by jonmc at 9:53 AM on August 24, 2008

inmates
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:53 AM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

humans
posted by infini at 9:56 AM on August 24, 2008

I'm tired of the term "website" because I see it at work all day. Can we please start referring to Metafilter as a Linky Bean Plate instead, because saying it ten times fast makes me giggle?
posted by ook at 10:08 AM on August 24, 2008 [11 favorites has favorites]

Your issues with the word "user" say more about you than they do MeFi.
posted by toomuchpete at 10:08 AM on August 24, 2008

What about all those websites that make you click on the SUBMIT button to get anything done? What are your feelings on that?
posted by BeerFilter at 10:08 AM on August 24, 2008 [8 favorites has favorites]

If it feels this good gettin' used, you just keep on usin' me until you use me up.
posted by box at 10:09 AM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

humans

But that discriminates against Astro Zombie! (Not to mention Pot and Kettle.)
posted by StrikeTheViol at 10:09 AM on August 24, 2008

If I claim that I could quit anytime, am I still a user?
posted by Forktine at 10:10 AM on August 24, 2008

does 'website' denigrate the human beings they are meant to be read by? distance them from their humanity, the equivalent of 'collateral damage' ?
posted by infini at 10:14 AM on August 24, 2008

Wait a minute, what's this about collateral damage? Did something happen to my five bucks?
posted by box at 10:16 AM on August 24, 2008

"Users" isn't appropriate, I suppose. There are a lot more lurkers than users, so yes, "members" would be more accurate.
posted by HotPatatta at 10:20 AM on August 24, 2008

I think this thread needs eyeballkid.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 10:22 AM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

“The word user is the word used by the computer professional when they mean idiot.” --Dave Barry
posted by tkolar at 10:26 AM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I think user is a fairly accurate descriptor; MetaFilter isn't very far removed from heroin.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:27 AM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Friends don't let friends Metafilter.
posted by Dagobert at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2008

Q: You texty link person! Do you like using these pages?
A: I like it! I like using this linky text!
Q: Are you using these web pages as if it were your profession?
A: YES! I am using this text as a user, very much!
posted by Meatbomb at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2008 [27 favorites has favorites]

I'm tired of the word 'user'. can we use 'members' or 'readers' instead

I might "use" and "read" MetaFilter, but I sure as hell don't "memb" it.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:31 AM on August 24, 2008

I'm not getting the snarky backlash by some. Isn't it pretty accepted here that the otherwise-common reply convention of "@username" is Not Acceptable because of its abrupt and impersonal style? And that people who use it are often (informally) called out and told to use something else that doesn't get on everyone's nerves? In light of that, I don't see why changing "users" to something more personable is such a ridiculous idea, especially since it isn't forcing anyone to alter their behavior.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:32 AM on August 24, 2008

lusers. amirite.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 10:32 AM on August 24, 2008

Mefites?
posted by Busithoth at 10:35 AM on August 24, 2008

members only.
posted by Sailormom at 10:36 AM on August 24, 2008

I know it's just semantics, but users are people too; as a member of the design profession, the choice of words worries me sometimes. Besides, who wants to be known as a 'user'? Yeah, this is a pet peeve.

Guess my pet peeve.

"@username" is Not Acceptable

Because one does not talk at others.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:36 AM on August 24, 2008 [5 favorites has favorites]

Consumers.
posted by ericb at 10:43 AM on August 24, 2008

We could all have matching jackets.
posted by Sailormom at 10:43 AM on August 24, 2008

Isn't it pretty accepted here that the otherwise-common reply convention of "@username" is Not Acceptable because of its abrupt and impersonal style?
Well if anything, the style of my reply, which is common here, is more impersonal, as I am not even mentioning your username. It is however more readable, as other readers see the quoted text that I'm referencing instead of having to scroll back up to read what "username" wrote each time someone references a previous comment. Plus, that way looks stupid.
posted by horsemuth at 10:48 AM on August 24, 2008

Gee, how about a system in which we determine what to call you based on an algorithm or favorites received and posts made? And other users can post feedback to your posts beyond just commenting on them, like A++ WOULD READ AGAIN? You'll get little logos you can put next to your name when you crest certain levels, like Power Poster?

JaredSeth (186) ⋆⋆
posted by JaredSeth at 10:48 AM on August 24, 2008

Oh and [NOT EBAY-IST]
posted by JaredSeth at 10:49 AM on August 24, 2008

Morlocks?
posted by horsemuth at 10:50 AM on August 24, 2008

Associates.
posted by fixedgear at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2008

Associates.

I just shorten it.
posted by jessamyn at 10:53 AM on August 24, 2008 [9 favorites has favorites]

Well-wishers.
posted by box at 10:54 AM on August 24, 2008

My Friends
posted by R. Mutt at 10:55 AM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Unique page impressors.
posted by nowonmai at 11:04 AM on August 24, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

Eyeballs.
posted by box at 11:11 AM on August 24, 2008

Huh huh. "Member."
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:15 AM on August 24, 2008

Hey, I'm a member of the design profession, too! Let's be friends!!!
posted by katillathehun at 11:18 AM on August 24, 2008

Gaping maws.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:18 AM on August 24, 2008

Well, gaping anyway
posted by atrazine at 11:20 AM on August 24, 2008

jessamyn: "I just shorten it."

Ah, Metafilter. With its happy ciates.
posted by subbes at 11:21 AM on August 24, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

Soca!
posted by box at 11:31 AM on August 24, 2008

GreaseMonkey to the rescue!
posted by Deathalicious at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Was there ever a discussion of a the collective noun for mefites?
posted by YoBananaBoy at 11:40 AM on August 24, 2008

whiners.
posted by shmegegge at 11:45 AM on August 24, 2008

I'm tired of the word comment, can't we use a different word such as "creative offering" or "accident" when referring to comments?

I know its just semantics, but comments are means of expression, and as a member of the expression profession the choice of words worries me sometimes. Besides, who wants their gift to the community to be known as a 'comment'? Yah, this is a pet peeve
posted by hellojed at 11:47 AM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

> 'm tired of the word comment, can't we use a different word...?

You could call them 'underpants'. Like underpants, they can be shameful or provocative, interesting or repulsive, and they have the potential reveal more about you than you really intended to show.
posted by ardgedee at 11:53 AM on August 24, 2008 [7 favorites has favorites]

What if you go commando?
posted by fixedgear at 11:55 AM on August 24, 2008

A snark of MeFites.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

a whinge of mefites
an ellipsis of mefites
a cooter of mefites

quarrel, prattle, thread, pileon
posted by milkrate at 12:06 PM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I like "user" because it makes me feel like TRON. I picture my little blue Mefi guy running around and killing your guys with his lightcycle. My little blue guy RULES.
posted by Justinian at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2008 [5 favorites has favorites]

If I knew that 129 members had favorited something, I would want to clean it very carefully before I touched it.

Because of all the semen.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:10 PM on August 24, 2008

Yeah, to change this you'd pretty much have to hack the Master Control Program cone.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:12 PM on August 24, 2008

Y'know what pisses me off, infini? You come in here, you do this annoying thing where you don't capitalize or punctuate and you announce yourself as "a member of the design profession" (huh?) all in a few sentences, and then you complain about wanting to change a word because you don't like how it feels, which, I've gotta tell you, is just about the most annoying thing in the world to me. If I have to read one more obnoxious euphemism that's been cleverly invented to circumvent the painful confrontation of something difficult, I think I'll hit somebody. So what I want most is to tell you to shove it, that I want words plain, and that they shouldn't be mucked with.

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that you're right. "Users" isn't really correct, and it sounds stupid, too. "People" is right. There's no need to go reaching for "valued members" or "esteemed contributors" or some such bullshit. "People" is right, it's to the point, and it's succinct.

So, yeah, it's annoying, but you're absolutely right. I think this should change.
posted by koeselitz at 12:19 PM on August 24, 2008 [4 favorites has favorites]

Addicts
posted by 6:1 at 12:19 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

"Youse guys"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:26 PM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

GreaseMonkey to the rescue!

Now you too can experience the fun and whimsy of OneNewsNow-style search-and-replace tactics! Look forward to such smirk-inducing moments as:

"Damn those Townhoreaders, and their quaint door decorations!"
"MeFiMusicians, what are your thoughts on Transfmember?"
"HOPE ME! My Mounderpants has horrible hairballs!"
posted by CKmtl at 12:27 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Hm. I think I use the terms "Mefites" or "members."

Hey, what are people who reset the cooter clock? "Schmucks" or "asshats?" I'm leaning towards "schmuck."
posted by Pronoiac at 12:33 PM on August 24, 2008

'Readers' wouldn't work either, because ideally, members contribute too. Members is okay, because it doesn't imply a one way relation. But it doesn't really say anything about the relationship between mefi and the member. It doesn't say what we do, except, 'be members'. Agreed though, that users has the same problem of 'readers'. It's not web 2.0-y enough. Meh. The problem is, words that try too hard to be web 2.0-y suck. And I can't think of a suitable word that existed before web 2.0 that accurately describes the 2 way interaction between members and the site/other members.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 12:36 PM on August 24, 2008

Don't pretend you didn't see the "Metafilter: More addictive than crack" warnings. You paid your $5 and took your chances just like the rest of us. Face the sad and sordid facts, baby, you are a user, plain and simple. Cute trick with the "member" BS, but euphemisms won't get you anywhere - that's just another form of denial.
posted by madamjujujive at 12:43 PM on August 24, 2008 [4 favorites has favorites]

meh, it gets too much to see it all over my playground too

Every time a "meh" is uttered, an angel gets its wings CAUGHT IN A TURBINE.
posted by katillathehun at 12:49 PM on August 24, 2008 [4 favorites has favorites]

"Puppies."
posted by Wolfdog at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2008

a whinge of mefites
an ellipsis of mefites
a cooter of mefites

I thought it was a beanplate of mefites.
(or a blazecock pileon of mefiltes)
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 12:58 PM on August 24, 2008

Every time a "meh" is uttered, an angel gets its wings CAUGHT IN A TURBINE.

HD High Speed video requested.
posted by tkolar at 1:01 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I agree with koeselitz. People who can't capitalize in the most remedial of gramatical situations piss me off. Next please.
posted by jmd82 at 1:08 PM on August 24, 2008

Soy un perdidor
I'm a user, baby, so why don't you kill me?
posted by lukemeister at 1:14 PM on August 24, 2008

'NEEERRRDDDSSS!!!!' ?
posted by Busithoth at 1:20 PM on August 24, 2008

People who dismiss others based on their chosen aesthetic rather than the merits of their ideas piss me off. Next please.

People who vulgarly descry the offense of their delicate sensibilities by others in public evoke my intolerance. Moving along.

People who generalize affect my emotional balance, which worries my perception of control over my own waking life. Mommy!
posted by carsonb at 1:23 PM on August 24, 2008

Every time a "meh" is uttered, an angel gets its wings CAUGHT IN A TURBINE.

Seeing as how I already have popcorn:

meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh

Oooooh. Better than the compressed air wiener-dog gun.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:33 PM on August 24, 2008

I just shorten it.

Associates.

Goddamn narks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:34 PM on August 24, 2008

Associates --> Socs

Stay gold, jessamyn.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I agree with koeselitz.
posted by grouse at 1:41 PM on August 24, 2008

Well, I think that from a design perspective we should be look at what image we're trying to project with the collective noun for us. I mean, what is the image we want other people to have of us? These are the important questions, people.

ASIDE Marty, can you grab me a tall mocha? Great, thanks.

*Struts around boardroom table*

Let's brainstorm? What have we got?

*Writes spoken contributions on flipchart*

Great, this is all gold people.

*Pushes black framed rectangular glasses back onto bridge of his nose*

However, I think you're thinking too small. Too inside the box when we should be thinking outside the box. We need to shift the paradigm of what we expect to be addressed by.

I suggest *pause* usr. Think about it.

Like user, but without the 'e'! It's genius! What's more, it reflects on MetaFilter (or MtFltr, as it's soon to be known) as a place both invested in the past of the internet - think command line! - and in the future. Look at the success of places like Flickr. No 'e' equals profit!

Now, moving on to changing to a white background with rounded corners...
posted by djgh at 1:42 PM on August 24, 2008 [5 favorites has favorites]

How about yoozer?
posted by ORthey at 1:44 PM on August 24, 2008

I mean, what is the image we want other people to have of us?

HAWT, but wears underwear.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Sys Rq: "
"@username" is Not Acceptable
Because one does not talk at others."

All evidence here to the contrary.
posted by dg at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2008

how about "friends" or "humans" or "people" or "men and women" or ... no, let's just stick to users.
posted by krautland at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2008

"client"... "partner"...
posted by Artw at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2008

johns.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 2:32 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Only users need hugs.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:32 PM on August 24, 2008

"loyal subjects"
posted by Artw at 2:35 PM on August 24, 2008

djgh,
Stop the disenvoweling, unless you want to tear open the wound again. Do we really want to see mathowi, jssamyn, and cortx stripped of the most commonly used letter in the English language?
posted by lukemeister at 2:36 PM on August 24, 2008

"carbon based units"
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on August 24, 2008

revenue generation units.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:39 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

We're all batteries, just like in the matrix, however the fuck that was supposed to work...
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on August 24, 2008

"motherfuckers"

Either that or "Metafiltroons." Whichever.
posted by stet at 2:47 PM on August 24, 2008

"Arugula munchers"
posted by Artw at 2:54 PM on August 24, 2008

"patrons"
posted by blasdelf at 3:03 PM on August 24, 2008

Special snowflakes.
posted by Dave Faris at 3:05 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

You mean... MorthrFuckrs.
posted by kaibutsu at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2008

koeselitz: ""People" is right."

I think so. Being called a 'user' isn't quiite as bad as being called a 'customer' instead of a passenger by the conductor on a post-privatisation train, but it does rankle a tiny bit. Nothing compared to time I was asked to fill in a 'stakeholder' questionnaire when I was in fact a fucking patient in a hospital, mind - my outrage at that piece of newspeak bollocks was powerful enough to snap me right out of the lovely morphine nod I was enjoying at the time. Thanks for that, New Labour spincocks.
posted by jack_mo at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

HAWT, but wears underwear.

Speak for yourself, Brandon.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:12 PM on August 24, 2008

In defense of the term, because, hey, why not:

At some point in the maybe-not-too-far-flung future, it may not be so clearly obvious, or at least conspicuous, that things like community weblogs and social platforms and conversational applications are computer programs running on computers that we interact with by typing on keyboards.

At that point, the functional sensibility of "user" as a term connoting the use of or interaction with some kind of engineered object or application will probably start to break down. But right now, that you're explicitly using the functionality provided by Metafilter—not just reading the site but doing things granted to you as a privileged accessor of the commenting and posting and flagging and favoriting and etc. systems the site extends to you—is a pretty immediately accessible idea, and one driven by a long tradition in social computing.

Of course you're a member; of course you're a person, and a mefite. But you don't mefi the site, or memberize it or personize it: you use it. Mefi is a community of people, but that's an emergent property, and what it emerges from is the core functionality of the site, the channels of communication in various directions that the programming provides. So the taxonomical argument for "user" in those contexts where use is being described is pretty sound.

Now, when I'm talking about mefi in some specific social context, I say "mefite" and "member" and "lurker" and "reader"; I talk about people I've met and people I only know form their words here; I discuss the community, and how it differs from other communities and what kinds of interpersonal interactions emerge from where and by whom and so on.

But beneath all of that, we're all users logged into the same system.
posted by cortex at 3:12 PM on August 24, 2008 [6 favorites has favorites]

Winners don't use.
posted by Artw at 3:15 PM on August 24, 2008

I vote for ☺s. Perhaps accompanied by a few hearts and stars and prancing unicorn icons. If you made the stars blink, it would seem like they're twinkling.
posted by XMLicious at 3:18 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

But you don't mefi the site

Speak for yourself cortex.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:33 PM on August 24, 2008

A former employer had a 3 month contest to come up with an alternative to the word "employee" for use in intracompany communications. The winning entry was "colleague". The word "employer" was retained for regular use though.
posted by klarck at 3:48 PM on August 24, 2008

PEOPLE USE MEFI. IT HAS MANY USES. WHEN ONE USES THE WORD USER, OTHERS UNDERSTAND IT.

But I'd go with "USians," just to piss off the foreigners.
posted by kittyprecious at 3:55 PM on August 24, 2008

I wanna spread the news that if it feels this good getting used
Oh you just keep on using me until you use me up...
posted by jonmc at 4:02 PM on August 24, 2008

But I'd go with "USians," just to piss off the foreigners people who care about language.
posted by Forktine at 4:05 PM on August 24, 2008

semi-computer nerd joke: my boss was trying to decide what caption to put next to a number that showed how many users of our product had participated in a certain discussion.

Since we had an array that listed all the members who had participated, he proposed "member length."
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:06 PM on August 24, 2008

But I'd go with "USians," just to piss off the foreigners people who care about language everyone in the universe except like 8 people who still think it's clever or meaningful.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

"white middle class males"
posted by Artw at 4:49 PM on August 24, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I work for a company that recently changed the title of about 90% of our workforce to something so gratuitously condescending it makes me froth every time I see it on a piece of documentation. The following is largely based on how furious that change makes me.

I like user! It's honest! It's not smarmy! It doesn't attempt to conceal my real relationship with the site under a bunch of feel-good nonsense which purports to value people by assuming that they are so fragile they can't recognize that the strong anthropic principle does not refer directly to them!
posted by winna at 4:49 PM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

"I vote for ☺s. Perhaps accompanied by a few hearts and stars and prancing unicorn icons. If you made the stars blink, it would seem like they're twinkling.
posted by XMLicious at 3:18 PM on August 24"

Excellent suggestion! *♥*♥*♥*♥* unless the blink tag no longer works.
posted by Cranberry at 5:02 PM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Sycophants and sops.
posted by Dave Faris at 5:05 PM on August 24, 2008

Comrades.
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:14 PM on August 24, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

SME
posted by fixedgear at 5:18 PM on August 24, 2008

beneath all of that, we're all users logged into the same system

Spoken as a true programmer: you are seeing the machine.
"User" is okay anyway, but I think infini has a point: you "use" a service, and we are using the service provided by the engine that runs Metafilter.
But readers are also using Metafilter.
So it could be said that "user" covers readers as well as people who post.
Posting is a privilege reserved to members.
So "members" are a special class of "users": those who can participate.
So calling people who post "members" is more precise.
posted by bru at 6:26 PM on August 24, 2008

User? But I hardly know 'er!
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:18 PM on August 24, 2008

k, after reading the reasoned arguments sprinkled in this thread, i'll go with what cortex says and never complain again ;p though I do appreciate what koesilitz has written

however, just to make my point, else I wouldn't be using MeFi like the addict I am, the word user, particularly when its used less for people using online or s/w stuff and more when its for tangible products - take the swiffer for example or some such - has a tendency among designers to make them overlook the fact that ultimately its real people who have to use the product, yes, they are users, but the word often makes them seem like remote entities who are part of a demographic rather than human beings with hopes and dreams and aspirations

kinda what leads to mainstream consumer culture telling you that you're a luser without an iPhone

just imho

(ps. I use yah cos I say yah not yeah, i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications)
posted by infini at 8:31 PM on August 24, 2008

You know what? Semantic nerds are people too! Nothing subverts my metaphor more than some filter user that comes along and reduces my entire world to a "just". And for prescriptivist purposes no less! I haven't been dragging my trochees up a hill covered with any of one of the 1000 words for snow to read you write, "I know its just semantics, but..."

So yeah, next time, watch your language. With your fingers.
posted by iamkimiam at 8:45 PM on August 24, 2008

k after reading the reasoned arguments sprinkled in this thread ill go with what cortex says and never complain again p though I do appreciate what koesilitz has written

however just to make my point else I wouldnt be using MeFi like the addict I am the word user particularly when its used less for people using online or sw stuff and more when its for tangible products take the swiffer for example or some such has a tendency among designers to make them overlook the fact that ultimately its real people who have to use the product yes they are users but the word often makes them seem like remote entities who are part of a demographic rather than human beings with hopes and dreams and aspirations

kinda what leads to mainstream consumer culture telling you that youre a luser without an iPhone

just imho

ps I use yah cos I say yah not yeah i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications

FTFY (The puntcuation, I mean - I'm not sure how to eliminate grammar. Maybe by randomly reshuffling the words?)
posted by longsleeves at 12:18 AM on August 25, 2008

I wanna spread the news
that if it feels this good getting used
just keep on using me
until you use me up
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:44 AM on August 25, 2008

> the word user, particularly when its used less for people using online or s/w stuff and more when its for tangible products ... has a tendency among designers to make them overlook the fact that ultimately its real people who have to use the product

On the contrary. In design and technology professions, 'user' is more specific than 'person. 'Person' is ambiguous; it could mean the user, or the admin, or a spectator. 'User' designates the specific person engaged in the task of posting/commenting/reading. It's not the most humanizing of words, on the surface, but the meaning of 'user' as used here is sufficiently common by now even among people outside the design trade -- and outside of Metafilter -- that you'll have a hard time dislodging it. Tech jargon tends to assimilate rapidly in online forums, partly because the geeks are mingling about and using the terms.

> (ps. I use yah cos I say yah not yeah, i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications)

You're using grammar whether you intend to or not, but expect to be tweaked frequently for writing in a hybrid SMS/chatforum style.
posted by ardgedee at 5:46 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

that if it feels this good getting used
just keep on using me
until you use me up

Three times isn't enough for that reference. Could we have four?
posted by gleuschk at 6:18 AM on August 25, 2008

Has anyone nominated "Asshat" to replace user? If not, consider this a nomination.
posted by Mister_A at 7:13 AM on August 25, 2008

Three times isn't enough for that reference. Could we have four?

Here's two more, bringing it to five for you, gleuschk:

I'm a user...
I'm a user...
And I'm not what I appear to be...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:13 AM on August 25, 2008

Waiter, I'm tired of these beans. Take them to the user at the next table and bring me some pancakes. Thanks!
posted by languagehat at 7:14 AM on August 25, 2008

(ps. I use yah cos I say yah not yeah, i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications)

Oof...that's hard to read.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:19 AM on August 25, 2008

(ps. I use yah cos I say yah not yeah, i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications)

If you said "yah" to me instead of "yeah" in a face-to-face conversation I would probably have to spend at least a few seconds determining what you were trying to say. Therefore I would argue that your attempt to make communication more efficient (that is why you're doing this, right?) by stripping away such affectations as grammar or punctuation or, you know, recognizable words, is actually making you harder to communicate with.

Just something to consider as you go about your day.
posted by penduluum at 7:50 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

At some point in the maybe-not-too-far-flung future, it may not be so clearly obvious, or at least conspicuous, that things like community weblogs and social platforms and conversational applications are computer programs running on computers that we interact with by typing on keyboards.

The Singularity: Will You Use It, or Will It Use You?

(Malevolent AI in my exocortex? It's more likely than you think.)
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 7:57 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Dave Faris : Sycophants and sops.

This is good, but I think that we could make it even better;

12 obsequious sycophants marked this as a favorite:

Yeah, that's got the right tone. The one that makes you feel, just a little bit, like an evil overlord.

'Toadying lackey' would also be acceptable.
posted by quin at 8:17 AM on August 25, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

Yowzers.
posted by yhbc at 8:27 AM on August 25, 2008

how about "Ya" then for the sound that emerges ? Its not really a "yeah" tbh
posted by infini at 9:01 AM on August 25, 2008

How do you pronounce yah, anyway? On preview: Yaw?

iamkimiam: I haven't been dragging my trochees up a hill covered with any of one of the 1000 words for snow to read you write, "I know its just semantics, but..."

Training montage! I was hoping you weren't quoting & you put in "its" just to make a point, but nooooo. Without grammar, punctuation, or semantics, what is left? Markov?
posted by Pronoiac at 9:03 AM on August 25, 2008

GET HIM A BODY BAG, YAH!
posted by inigo2 at 9:09 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

yah, yaw, ya; you poor confused anglophones. Subconsciously you're looking for something but don't know what.
You're looking for the Dutch/German/Danish/Swedish/Norwegian affirmative ja of course. One word and it will serve you right all over north Europe.

I seem to remember that the British royal family, which used to be called Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha before WWI, uses yah as an affirmative as a remnant of the German descent of queen Victoria.
I'm not sure whether that's true.
posted by jouke at 10:18 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

infini: how about "Ya" then for the sound that emerges ? Its not really a "yeah" tbh

Well, that's true. But it's not really "rig-heh-tuh," either, it's "rah-ee-t," but conventionally we spell the word "right," probably because of some ridiculous Welsh influence centuries ago. "Yeah" is a conventional spelling.

And I don't mind - you can spell it any way you wish - but you should be warned that every time I read someone who's written "yah," I expect the next interjection to be "eh," and I hear everything they type sounding just like the McKenzie brothers. "Yah" looks like it should be pronounced "y-aaahh," long 'a' sound.

I actually think "yeah" is a pretty good rendering, phonetically. When you slow down and take out the dipthong, just pronouncing each vowel, "ye-ah," it sounds a bit more languid, almost Texan, but it closely approximates what it sounds like from the rest of us, I think.

The trouble seems to be that there's no character for the nasal 'a' in English. Every time you write a simple 'a,' it usually gets read as a long or short 'a,' not the nasal 'a' of "yeaaah!" So I think you're stuck with the odd ways we've come up with for writing that sound.
posted by koeselitz at 10:24 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Dowwww dowt dowt.
Chicka-chick-ahhhh.
Ohhhh yæh.
posted by cortex at 10:30 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

One word and it will serve you right all over north Europe.

Alas: in American pop culture, "ja" is strongly, maybe irrevocably bounded to (in maybe roughly equal shares) evil-and/or-cartoonish Nazis and contemporary, friendly, Beemer-manufacturing Germans. Plus there's the issue of Jah Rasta riffage confusing the phonetic connotations as well.
posted by cortex at 10:33 AM on August 25, 2008

Note that the above was found while rummaging through some old files that I store in my ass. Consult your doctor before changing medication. Void where prohibited.
posted by cortex at 10:35 AM on August 25, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

You know, "void where prohibited" can be parsed as incitement to poop illegally. That might not be such a great thing to tack on to legal disclaimers.
posted by cortex at 10:35 AM on August 25, 2008 [6 favorites has favorites]

> You're looking for the Dutch/German/Danish/Swedish/Norwegian affirmative ja of course. One word and it will serve you right all over north Europe.

Glad to oblige, yah sure, you betcha, but we're over here and not over there. Stuck in the woods you might say, don't'cha know.
posted by ardgedee at 10:37 AM on August 25, 2008

The Minnesotan ja from Fargo beats out German connotations, I think.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2008

but we're over here and not over there
That's right. And your use of yah/ya/yaw betrays a secret longing for to be over here. I've see these symptoms quite often with my other patients.
posted by jouke at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

That sounds rather probable Pronoiac; looking at the high percentage of German and Scandinavian ancestry in Minnesota (according to Wikipedia that is).

So, cortex, they're no nazis, they're Minnesotans.
posted by jouke at 11:41 AM on August 25, 2008

Ah, but the Minnesotan Oh Yah is, you know, a distinctly Minnesotan artifact; it's not really in the running for general usage outside of folks with that dialectal upbringing, and was played for laughs in e.g. Fargo.

So it's definitely in the phonetic pop-culture mix—consider my Nazi/BMW/Reggae theory amended—but still doesn't work as a secret-Euro-yearning argument. If I wanted to make a serious argument about the existence of "yah" and "ya" as common renderings of "yeah", I'd chalk it up to people being incapable of agreeing on the morphological representation of slangy casual speech.

Or, to restructure that as a bar bet: twenty bucks says that an unbiased survey of the pronunciation of "yeah" token by non-Minnesotan Americans who spell it "yah" or "ya" would show that at least eighty percent of them pronounce it like "yeah", not "ja". Finding out that I'm totally wrong about this would be worth that twenty bucks to me, but I doubt I'll have the chance to lose it.
posted by cortex at 11:52 AM on August 25, 2008

Users are losers, and losers are users.
posted by Iamtherealme at 12:00 PM on August 25, 2008

Users are losers, and losers are users.

YouTube on antidrug PSAs:

This video may not be suitable for minors.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 12:47 PM on August 25, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I thought the reggae one was Jah, pronounced jaw, for Jahweh?

And "ya" is most likely used for "you." "Hey Ya" notwithstanding. Wait, which "ya" is used in "Hey Ya?"

So you picture someone wandering around with a sign: "Do you use these words to say yes: 'yah' or 'ya?'"

...

In asking officemates about "Hey Ya," one admits to using "ya" for "yeah" in text messaging.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:37 PM on August 25, 2008

infiniPoster: "... (ps. I use yah cos I say yah not yeah, i prefer no grammar or punctuation for my online textual communications)"

Of course, you won't mind if every sane human subconsciously subtracts 100 IQ points from you in parsing what you write, will you? Personally, I just assume that people who refuse to use correct punctuation or spelling do so because they don't know how - this saves (me) time and is invariably confirmed over time.
posted by dg at 2:10 PM on August 25, 2008 [7 favorites has favorites]

you won't mind if every sane human subconsciously subtracts 100 IQ points from you in parsing what you write, will you?

That's way harsh, dg. More like 50 IQ points.
posted by grouse at 2:12 PM on August 25, 2008

"dupes". Same number of letters, forms the plural in the same way. You can make the change with a binary editor. You're welcome.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:01 PM on August 25, 2008

In reference to the membership fee, I suggest that users be called "Lincolns".
posted by arcanecrowbar at 3:55 PM on August 25, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

In asking officemates about "Hey Ya," one admits to using "ya" for "yeah" in text messaging.

"ya" is commonly used for yes or yeah in the upper midwest. Think Fargo.
posted by desjardins at 4:21 PM on August 25, 2008

Woah, 150 comments and nobody brought up the term "abuser"?

Well, then I will. I am a MetaFilter abuser. (Just ask the mods.) Have been since the first day the street-corner blog pusher gave me a free sample. I did spend some time in offline rehab, but it didn't take. I'm hooked, and frankly, I'm happy.

And there IS a Cabal; at last count, it has over 78,000 members, including a lot of 'silent partners'. So let's call ourselves The Cabalists. (unless that sounds too much like Kaballah).

Other designation suggestions:

FOMs (Firends Of Mathowie)

MetaTologists.

The Aristocrats.

Gangstahs. (Double-posters are Unoriginal Gangstahs)

Mobsters. (or MetaMobsters)

Clubbers.

The Emailing List.

Imaginary Friends.

Dorks.

The Damned.

Mes-Who-Get-Asked.

Filterers.

Flitterers. (hey, if Matt ever wants to set up a competitor for Twitter...)

Masons is taken, but we can be the Masonjars, Masondixons, Marshamasons, Masonadams (my fave) or Stonecutters. (although we are closer to Shriners)

Citizens.

Shareholders (or Holdsharers).

or just Victims.
posted by wendell at 4:49 PM on August 25, 2008

Hello? Anybody here? I got more...

Snarkers.

Mutual Enemies.

Huddled Masses (or Muddled Asses).

Followers (or MetaFollowers).

Apostles, Disciples or other religious connotations.

Partners (or Pardners or Pahdnahs).

Little Rascals (an alternative to Gang references).

Assembled Multitudes.

Focus Group (or Focus Groupies).

Or just Groupies, Groupers or Groupsters.

I even posted about this on my own NEW blog (blatant self-link)
posted by wendell at 6:31 PM on August 25, 2008

Jets
posted by The Light Fantastic at 6:53 PM on August 25, 2008

No, Jets won't work, because when you're a jet, you're a jet all the way from your first cigarette to you last dying day...and that means no more flame-outs.

Thetans.

Then we never have to worry about Tom Cruise joining.
posted by misha at 7:30 PM on August 25, 2008

YOUR last dying day. Please hide me from languagehat.
posted by misha at 7:31 PM on August 25, 2008

I said "Snarks", not "Sharks"...

You can hide behind me, misha, I'm a big target. But sometimes a kmart.
posted by wendell at 1:04 AM on August 26, 2008

for those correcting my pronounciation, go look at the individual in the profile page and decide if said person would pronounce English, American, or even Yee Ha correctly, hmm?
posted by infini at 2:17 AM on August 26, 2008

dg - your point helps, i become lax outside of when i'm writing formally but had never stopped to think how and what my 'textual' persona conveyed.
posted by infini at 2:18 AM on August 26, 2008

What also struck me was that while I may have posted this request on MetaTalk on an impulse, the conversation since then has not reflected well on me. I do apologize for that.
posted by infini at 2:43 AM on August 26, 2008

infini: ... the conversation since then has not reflected well on me. I do apologize for that.

Huh? This is how it works in MeTa - someone posts something, and then everybody else takes turns bashing their skull. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter what they post. It certainly didn't seem to matter here.

All snarking to the contrary, you didn't do anything to provoke it. We are equipped with internet spleens - the kind that require frequent venting. If it wasn't your grammar or punctuation, it would've been your username, how many comments you've made, you shoe size, etc.

Don't worry, friend. It's the modern malaise. It's the contemporary cynicism. It's not you. Seriously. It's us being assholes.
posted by koeselitz at 9:16 AM on August 26, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Hey, koeselitz is right. It's the modern Malays. Buncha snarkers.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:56 AM on August 26, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Cortex: would show that at least eighty percent of them pronounce it like "yeah", not "ja".
Apparently you have a very definite idea of how "ja" is pronounced. Since the default English pronounciation "dya" isn't relevant I suppose you're thinking of a German like pronounciation.
But that's just one language of the five I mentioned. The english "yah" easily fits into that fonological continuum of those five.

I must say; your bar bets sound rather nuanced (80%) and hard to prove. Are you drinking enough? Here, let me get you a beer.

No, jouke isn't pronounced "djooky" either
posted by jouke at 12:47 PM on August 26, 2008

A bar bet that doesn't lead to arguments over ambiguity and provability isn't a bar bet worth artificially prolonging the conversation by making.

Scotch, please. I'm on a diet.
posted by cortex at 1:11 PM on August 26, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm still wondering infini pronounces "yah."
posted by Pronoiac at 1:20 PM on August 26, 2008

Me too. For the purposes of cortex's bet, I'm assuming "yeah" is pronounced with the "a" in cat, and "ja" is pronounced with the "a" in car. I'd agree that most people would pronounce "yah" like "ja", but it's all very confusing.

Does "yes" share origins with "ja"? Because it sounds like "yeah" is most likely "yes" with the "s" dropped, and not a drift from "ja". Minnesotans are surely using a Scandinavian style "ja", but that seems pretty unrelated to the rest of the country's "yeah".
posted by team lowkey at 2:45 PM on August 26, 2008

"Sugartits"
posted by Artw at 3:22 PM on August 26, 2008

"pencildick"
posted by jessamyn at 4:36 PM on August 26, 2008

For extra lulz the users gender would be parsed and the least applicable of that pair would be used.
posted by Artw at 4:46 PM on August 26, 2008

Yes, I know, I'm leaving out "Other" and "Declined to identify".
posted by Artw at 4:48 PM on August 26, 2008

Sweetie
posted by lukemeister at 6:05 PM on August 26, 2008

But wait! There's more!
posted by lukemeister at 6:06 PM on August 26, 2008

I know koeselitz, I know and i'd have enjoyed teh banter if the rest of my world hadn't come crashing down around me just after I posted this

meh, yah, and *snarks at self*
posted by infini at 11:37 PM on August 26, 2008

Dude/Dudette
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:47 PM on August 26, 2008

Filtrates?
Sediments?
Peers?
Snookums?


As for the collective noun, I think milkrate has it: a pileon of MeFites.
posted by notashroom at 2:05 PM on August 27, 2008