My heart be warmed

November 11, 2008 6:22 PM

This AskMe thread looked like trouble but turned into a pretty encouraging display of thoughtfulness and knowledge, and when Grlnxtdr started to really understand the responses it just about knocked me out. A fascinating read, too.

It's a great example of what MeFi can do well, and a temporary chaser to the daily doses of snark and petty quarrels (and might even help scrub off your mental image of Cortex modding nude). Probably not Sidebar-able, but worthy of notice.

posted by Joseph Gurl to MetaFilter-related at 6:22 PM (93 comments total)

Man, I should have responded in that thread. She was handing out Best Answers like they were Cuecats or something.
posted by sourwookie at 6:33 PM on November 11, 2008 [15 favorites]

What an awful question.

On a related note, how do I encourage my girlfriend to have bigger tits and beg me for anal? Sure I hooked up with her fully cognizant of the fact that her tits were the size they are and that anal is like a 1 in 1000 proposition anyway, but now I'm worried about what other people may think, because I see a lot of big breasts around the place and I'm pretty sure that all other couples are ass-fucking one another senseless every night. And it's off-putting and makes me love her less because I know there are surgeries available and I know she has a pooper that I could put my penis in. Do you think she refuses augmentation and butt-loving just to infuriate me? When she starts squirming away from me on the bed, how can I politely remind her, in a non-snarky way, that rectal penetration is totally acceptable and in fact to be encouraged, and that "No I Do Not Want Your Penis Or Fingers Inside My Bum" is not a proper response to "accidental" prodding and forcible digital investigation? We argue about it all the time and it's driving me crazy!
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:02 PM on November 11, 2008 [2 favorites]

Yeah, probably best to focus on the initial error than the learning and eventual result. Totally.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:07 PM on November 11, 2008 [14 favorites]

I've never heard of Cuecats before now sourwookie. Interesting story.
posted by tellurian at 7:07 PM on November 11, 2008

Even if it did start on a sour note, it turned out to be a very thoughtful thread. I think MetaFilter is the better for it.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:12 PM on November 11, 2008

Yeah, probably best to focus on the initial error than the learning and eventual result.

So what you're saying is I'm not allowed to have a smart-assed opinion, formed immediately from the top of my head, completely bereft of facts, and without having first investigated the evidence and the procedures of the argument? What are you, some kind of test tube-juggling, statistics-crunching, peer-reviewed neo-Sagan? Nice try, Hitlerocrates!
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:15 PM on November 11, 2008 [35 favorites]

I've never heard of Cuecats before now sourwookie. Interesting story.

Yeah, same. If I had one of those, I probably wouldn't have crapped out on LibraryThing.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:19 PM on November 11, 2008

Yes, a good thread-- I skimmed it, saw a few really great comments (Brandon Blatcher is always awesome and helpful, and someone mentioned AAVE, many other good responses).

Also, cuecats are weird (I remember getting mine with my copy of WIRED and thinking "this is so cool! oh wait, not cool at all"), certainly not as cool as lolcats, and according to most sources, 1:1000 chance of buttsecks is WAY off.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:19 PM on November 11, 2008

So what you're saying is I'm not allowed to have a smart-assed opinion, formed immediately from the top of my head, completely bereft of facts, and without having first investigated the evidence and the procedures of the argument?

No, but you could've taken half the time it took to type up that anal analogy and read the rest of Joseph Gurl's sentence after the link. Then you could have spent the other half of that time wondering if it'd really be necessary to compare someone who learned the error of her ways to an unrepentant boor.
posted by CKmtl at 7:28 PM on November 11, 2008

anal analogy

:D
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:32 PM on November 11, 2008

Oh wait, I'm the boor, I get it. Now I feel internet-sad.
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:34 PM on November 11, 2008 [5 favorites]

As you like.

I took your example question as a piece of fiction. Thus the narrator, not the author, was the boor.
posted by CKmtl at 7:40 PM on November 11, 2008

Turgid, sorry you didn't like my very first Askme.

It actually took me a lot of courage to ask that question, since it was loaded already. Then I loaded it some more with some crappy wording... Context would have been helpful, but I didn't want to bog the question down.

I ended up looking like I put my husband down, when in truth I regularly brag him up to the hilt. I'm pretty cool, too, if you get to know me. I was doing a racist thing without realizing it. That's so *not* me it's not even funny.

Thanks to all again.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 7:41 PM on November 11, 2008 [10 favorites]

Grlnxtdr, don't worry about turgid dahlia. He was just taking a break between bouts of huffing gasoline and smoking crushed sheetrock while torturing kidnapped special needs children.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:53 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

And now Turgid Dahlia has made a shout-out about a good thread into a call-out for what a boor he is.

Speaking of which, he is kind of a cockmuncher.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:58 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

Sure, it WOULD have gotten rid of that mental image of cortex modding nude - if you hadn't just made me think of it all over again!
*desperately imagines a variety of pants*
posted by jacalata at 8:00 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

jacalata: you'd better NOT EVEN THINK about where that donut is stuck.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:02 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

What an awful question.

On a related note, how do I encourage my girlfriend to have bigger tits and beg me for anal? etc & c...

Brother, ease back. You're going to pull a muscle or catch a hernia or something.

Grlnxtdr,
Good on ya, I've always found that there is nothing more life improving than going into a situation hoping to be proven "right", finding out that I am "wrong" and then learning something from it (something I do all too rarely, you're a sterling example). It takes heart and a good dose of sense and humility to do that.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:03 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

On a related note, how do I encourage my girlfriend to have bigger tits and beg me for anal?

I'd be more worried how to get real life women to speak to you at all.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 PM on November 11, 2008 [25 favorites]

I'd be more worried how to get real life women to speak to you at all.
posted by jessamyn at 8:12 PM on November 11

If I'm ever single again, I am taking up the boor's life, they get all the action.
posted by maxwelton at 8:27 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'd be more worried how to get real life women to speak to you at all.

As if that were the goal.
posted by lukemeister at 8:42 PM on November 11, 2008

I'd be more worried how to get real life women to speak to you at all.

he probably thinks they shouldn't talk with their mouths full
posted by pyramid termite at 8:55 PM on November 11, 2008

My brain misread the title of this MeTa post as "My heart be wormed" and when the rest of the post said This AskMe thread looked like trouble but turned into a pretty encouraging display of thoughtfulness and knowledge, I thought it was going to be about veterinary issues that turned contentious (a la cat declawing).
posted by amyms at 9:02 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

You guys, turgid dahlia is obviously making a joke about trying to change one's partner.
posted by Electrius at 9:07 PM on November 11, 2008

Electrius,

We know, but our ears are very delicate in the Northern Hemisphere.
posted by lukemeister at 9:14 PM on November 11, 2008

turgid,

If you hold your breath all the way through a tunnel and make a wish, all of your [kinda kinky] dreams will come true!
posted by clearly at 9:23 PM on November 11, 2008

Nothing like being emasculated by a metafilter mod.
posted by puke & cry at 9:41 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

That's a fucking great AskMe thread. Thanks, Joseph Gurl, for pointing me towards it.

And turgid dahlia and his troubles provided me with amusement in this one.
posted by Kattullus at 9:51 PM on November 11, 2008

cuecats

I somehow completely missed that word's entry in my memory, and assumed it was something I had never heard of, pronounced something like cway-cats. Then, from context, I got the impression that cwaycats were some sort of appetizer, and I wondered if that's what you call those little pastry cups that get filled with pate or fancy foams or whatever, or maybe those toast-like crackers you put things on top -- some sort of appetizer, clearly, that would be easy to hand out to many people. I started to worry that maybe I was uncouth for not knowing what this appetizer was, and then other people started talking about not knowing about cwaycats, too... but then when I got to "If I had one of those, I probably wouldn't have crapped out on LibraryThing" and everything took a turn for the weird.

I'm better. Cuecats. I remember now. It makes sense. More sense than handing out best answers like appetizers.
posted by Ms. Saint at 10:06 PM on November 11, 2008 [6 favorites]

Nice try, Hitlerocrates!

Sockpuppet name ahoy!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:10 PM on November 11, 2008

Wow! Google has ZERO ZILCH NONE results for "Hitlerocrates".

I bow before the inflamed vegetable genitalia that is turgid dahlia.

That name has such deep meaning and resonance... thank you.
posted by Dataphage at 10:14 PM on November 11, 2008

Note: if someone does register that username, it won't be me. I ain't got the energy. Also Paypal locked my goddamn account and refuses to answer support emails anyway. Bastards.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:16 PM on November 11, 2008

Good grief stavrosthewonderchicken, is that still ongoing from here?
posted by tellurian at 10:36 PM on November 11, 2008

For the record, my partner's fake Cockney accent is atrocious, and I can't take him anywhere. We can't ever go back to Maine.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:40 PM on November 11, 2008

The most important thing about this thread is that it marks the reappearance of hermitosis (as in not [NOT-HERMITOSISIST]), who apparently has a different idea of what "permanently" means than I do.
posted by grouse at 10:53 PM on November 11, 2008

I'd be more worried how to get real life women to speak to you at all.

You worry about that, and I'll be over here, objectifying you.
posted by turgid dahlia at 11:53 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

Having said that, has anybody around here ever even seen a tongue meet a cheek? Jesus fuck.
posted by turgid dahlia at 11:54 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

he probably thinks they shouldn't talk with their mouths full

Actually I'd be wondering why I can hear them all the way from the kitchen.

Because it's at the other end of the mansion, donchaknow.
posted by turgid dahlia at 11:56 PM on November 11, 2008

turgid dahlia: "What are you, some kind of test tube-juggling, statistics-crunching, peer-reviewed neo-Sagan? Nice try, Hitlerocrates!"
posted by team lowkey at 12:05 AM on November 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

You worry about that, and I'll be over here, objectifying you.

Speaking of which, I just checked the "cooter counter", and it was reset four days ago. Does that mean that <the phrase> is getting used less often? Or maybe less often by established users?
posted by philomathoholic at 12:23 AM on November 12, 2008

That is a tough question to ask. Luckily this community rocks. I am very impressed with the answers.

I was raised by a graduate-school-educated-racist-bigot. It embarrasses a big part of my existence that that person had a 50% share in raising me.

I remember returning home after my first semester at in college. I had decided that I was going to confront my parent, and tell my parent that I thought s/he was a racist. And I did just that. And the response was, "Yeah, I'm a bigot, too. And?" I proceeded to listen to a stream of hatred invective towards "the Japanese, the Chinese, the Blacks, and Mexicans."

I had never been so keelhauled in all of my life. This person, my parent, was spouting ignorance and hatred for about 70% of the planet.

The part I struggle with as an adult is ... HOW THE FUCK DID I NOT NOTICE?!?!!

I mean, FUCK! This is the parent that introduced me to my love for reading ferchistsake. How did this happen? And how racist am I without even being aware of it?

So that thread is a breathe of fresh air for me. It also raised some questions.

*updates personal askme question queue*
posted by YoBananaBoy at 1:46 AM on November 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

I remember returning home after my first semester at in college.

Oh yeah, I took college. So much college I use extra prepositions.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 1:50 AM on November 12, 2008 [6 favorites]

Good grief stavrosthewonderchicken, is that still ongoing from here?

Nope, new and even more frustrating fuckery. There really should be a viable alternative to the inscrutable evil that is Paypal.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:29 AM on November 12, 2008

On a related note, how do I encourage my girlfriend to have bigger tits and beg me for anal?

Try increasing the air pressure. Then work on your ventriloquism.
posted by pracowity at 3:03 AM on November 12, 2008 [6 favorites]

I ended up looking like I put my husband down, when in truth I regularly brag him up to the hilt. I'm pretty cool, too, if you get to know me. I was doing a racist thing without realizing it.

Now there's some excellent and honest self-examination. Kudos to you.

(I'm serious. Not snarky. That's actually really awesome.)
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:36 AM on November 12, 2008

So glad I know what cuecats are now. I totally missed the boat on that one.
posted by greta simone at 6:12 AM on November 12, 2008

I think this was good example of how difficult it can be to make an AskMe post dealing with personal issues. Phrasing and context matters a lot and leaving out a certain detail or misusing the wrong word can drastically change the meaning. That's why it's good for those answering to take it easy on a person and not assume the worst.

Glad to hear that things are working out for Grlnxtdr!

turgid dahlia, that was so unneeded.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 AM on November 12, 2008

Having said that, has anybody around here ever even seen a tongue meet a cheek? Jesus fuck.

It's amazing how many assholes think their assholery shouldn't count because they thought they were being funny.

Note: I am not necessarily referring to anyone in particular, just making a general observation about assholes. But if someone should decide to take it personally, they should just assume it was said with tongue in cheek. Then everything will be hunky-dory.

Thanks for posting this, Joseph Gurl, and don't let the bastards get you down, Grlnxtdr—you're good people and I'm glad to share the site with you.
posted by languagehat at 6:20 AM on November 12, 2008 [9 favorites]

Having said that, has anybody around here ever even seen a tongue meet a cheek? Jesus fuck.

Humor is a tricky and sometimes very highly context-sensitive thing. It's also a deeply aesthetically subjective thing. It's often not really sufficient merely to have personally intended humor, or even to have conveyed that intent; there are times when, for one reason or another, Trying To Be Funny doesn't by itself qualify as a good contribution to the conversation.

And so an attempt at a joke turns out to be a miscalculation: so it goes. Everyone swings and misses sometimes. Handling your wiff, and the reception it generates, is half the discipline, or maybe more if your humor tends toward the edgy or sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek, because you have to know at that point that you're pushing buttons on purpose.

Handling bad reception of your attempt at a joke with humility and contrition is a good thing, even though it can be hard when people really dislike it and come down hard on you. The instinct toward defensiveness is pretty natural, but it's also about 100% certain to make you look like a jerk rather than a funny person who took a wrong turn.

So when you e.g. jump into the very beginning of a positive-feelings shoutout thread with a paragraph long ranting mockery, and people take it badly? That's probably one of those "aw heck, I'm sorry folks, I didn't mean it that way at all and I see why it came off wrong" situations, not one of those "what, you can't take a joke, jesus fuck" ones.
posted by cortex at 6:31 AM on November 12, 2008 [8 favorites]

Does that mean that <the phrase> is getting used less often? Or maybe less often by established users?

It's been a year and it's definitely showing up less and less.

Also: what cortex said.
posted by jessamyn at 6:40 AM on November 12, 2008

Ebb and flow my friends, ebb and flow.

It will return. And when it does, we'll.... well, you know.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:05 AM on November 12, 2008

Hit it?
posted by cgc373 at 7:09 AM on November 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

I still think my axe.metafilter.com reply shoulda stuck around
...
Well probably not.
posted by nfg at 7:22 AM on November 12, 2008

Having said that, has anybody around here ever even seen a tongue meet a cheek? Jesus fuck.

This might help with the original problem.
posted by waraw at 7:41 AM on November 12, 2008

There's something wrong with the thread -- almost all the responses have the special offset background.
posted by Perplexity at 7:49 AM on November 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

And how racist am I without even being aware of it?

Baby steps, grasshopper. The good news is that you understand now that you need to look deep inside and question every thought - even question the subconscious, as yet unthought potentiality for impurity within. Only then can you be good and clean.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:58 AM on November 12, 2008

You worry about that, and I'll be over here, objectifying you.

td, I think I understand what happened here. You made a joke, likening racism to sexism, and you think people took it way too seriously, and you are now making more ironic sexist jokes along the same lines in what is coming off as kind of a surly and mean-spirited way. We've discussed this in the gender and sexism threads before, but it's very difficult to pull off ironic sexism here. We can't see you, and oftentimes the irony gets lost. So it comes off rather badly. And you run some additional risk if folks recognize you as someone who has said sort of wrongheaded things about women in the past.

I think you should read cortex's comment again and take it to heart. Good luck.
posted by onlyconnect at 8:01 AM on November 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

My favorite line from that thread was so eloquently put:

"if Bill Shakespeare could hear you know he's cringe."

Yes, he is.
posted by yeti at 8:37 AM on November 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

Now that's cringe you can believe in. Or in which you can believe, anyway.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:35 AM on November 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Hint: The people of Maine will accept anything if it comes with coleslaw.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:13 AM on November 12, 2008

Burhanistan, you owe me a quart of bleach.
posted by Quietgal at 11:57 AM on November 12, 2008

Hint: The people of Maine will accept anything if it comes with coleslaw.

"Hey dere, it's blessed day, ain't it? Ya'll be wanting some 'slaw?"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:52 PM on November 12, 2008

He was just taking a break between bouts of huffing gasoline and smoking crushed sheetrock

You snort sheetrock, silly. Kids these days don't know anything.

A big hug to Grlnxtdr for having the courage to learn.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:02 PM on November 12, 2008

but it's very difficult to pull off ironic sexism here

Yes, quite. Oddly, it smells just like the other kind. Dressing up ressentiment as irony is not the impenetrable concealment device some imagine it to be.
posted by Wolof at 1:07 PM on November 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: Handling your wiff

Oh and well done Grlnxtdr
posted by panboi at 1:42 PM on November 12, 2008

You snort sheetrock, silly. Kids these days don't know anything.

Damnit, I've been trying to mainline it this whole time. I knew I was doing SOMETHING wrong.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:44 PM on November 12, 2008

I've neglected the cooter counter wiki page for a couple of weeks. As for distribution, here's a quick graph.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:16 PM on November 12, 2008

Oh wow, I didn't even know there was a wiki page for the counter.
posted by philomathoholic at 1:33 PM on November 13, 2008

Yup. I updated the wiki page, including a new failure due to premature celebration.

Here's a prettier & easier to update chart.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:01 PM on November 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'd hit it just to be immortalized on the wiki.
posted by Burhanistan at 5:35 PM on November 13, 2008

Now you are.
posted by jessamyn at 5:36 PM on November 13, 2008

Now I feel kind of sheepish.
posted by Burhanistan at 6:14 PM on November 13, 2008

Sheep, eh? I'd ... never mind.
posted by dmd at 6:44 PM on November 13, 2008

Now... point of order here... would dmd's comment count as resetting the cooter counter or does the whole phrase have to be uttered?
posted by Kattullus at 9:18 PM on November 13, 2008

I wouldn't count dmd's comment as a reset. I don't know if I grasp the rest of the question. The rules aren't exactly formalized or even necessarily articulated anywhere, & they'll probably be hashed out in a MeTa thread that I both look forward to & fear. Feel free to MefiMail me in the meantime.
posted by Pronoiac at 9:31 AM on November 14, 2008

I think intent to clearly evoke qualifies as a reset, personally. Ellipsis is no aegis here.
posted by cortex at 9:40 AM on November 14, 2008

The first rule of Cooter Counter is you do not talk about hitting it.
The second rule of Cooter Counter is you DO NOT talk about hitting it.
posted by grouse at 9:52 AM on November 14, 2008

*groan*
posted by Pronoiac at 10:18 AM on November 14, 2008

I would like to contest my inclusion on the Counter reset list as the context of my utterance - I was comparing it to another bit of unfunny noise - was completely disregarded. How many others have been wronged by this unnuanced and frankly fascistic policy? A bunch? More than a bunch?! A many?!?

This shall not stand!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2008

To elucidate, grouse, not cool.

cortex: I could see that side of it. Hmm.

Alvy: A few. Quotes are a grey area. I started counting them as "questionable" in June or so, marking them in italics, & I'd thought about going back & checking on the older entries, I just hadn't gotten to it yet. So, yeah, I'll take that mark off.

Instead of waiting for a couple of weeks without resets, I'll just start writing that MeTa post now.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:29 AM on November 14, 2008

What, precisely, is uncool? Do explain what has brought on your withering disapproval.
posted by grouse at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2008

By the way, if you really want this Cooter Counter thing to ever get to 30 days, drawing people's attention to it is not a good idea. For example, I had never heard of it before I saw your graphs.
posted by grouse at 12:03 PM on November 14, 2008

not_on_display is paying Pronoiac.
posted by jacalata at 2:34 PM on November 14, 2008

I remain confident.
posted by jessamyn at 4:25 PM on November 14, 2008

People have drawn attention to aspects of Metafilter that have a boyzone vibe. One of those aspects is when men objectify women, openly gauging their attractiveness, & the language strongly associated with such: "I'd hit it," "I'd tap that," & so forth. Talking past the present women like this is really shitty casual sexism, like they're invisible, nonexistent, don't matter, or only matter with regards to sex. This is considered rude. The cooter counter is an attempt to change the atmosphere & point out that this language is obnoxious.

"Not cool" wasn't withering disapproval, that was disappointment. I didn't think I needed to explicitly state that resetting the counter is a bad thing. I didn't think that the wiki page or the graphs glamorized this to the degree you think. I want to build awareness of this so people knock it off, but doing that without painting a target on it is difficult.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:04 PM on November 14, 2008

So you're disappointed when I say that people shouldn't say "I'd hit it" but not when you say that people shouldn't say "I'd hit it?"

Got it.
posted by grouse at 7:15 PM on November 14, 2008

Eponymous much?

I used quotes. You didn't.
posted by Pronoiac at 8:06 PM on November 14, 2008

"I'd tap that,"

Great, like I didn't have enough reasons to be ashamed that I still play Magic: The Gathering already.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:52 PM on November 14, 2008 [1 favorite]

Let's not get carried away about the rule of the counter thing. Just saying that silly phrase just to say it is meaningless and should not go on the wiki. It should only be reset when someone can't refrain from mentioning how he/she would really prefer to have carnal knowledge of someone, usually mentioned as a completely useless tangent, in whatever idiom.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:00 PM on November 14, 2008

I used quotes. You didn't.

The first rule of Cooter Counter is you do not talk about "hitting it."
The second rule of Cooter Counter is you DO NOT talk about "hitting it."

FTFM.
posted by grouse at 12:40 AM on November 15, 2008

I'm kinda scared that someday the counter will actually reach 30 days. I don't want to see jessamyn's name change.
posted by Ms. Saint at 8:39 AM on November 15, 2008

Me too. But I have a feeling that there are enough people in that camp, with enough obsessive attention to trivia, that it will never pass 29.
posted by jacalata at 4:48 PM on November 15, 2008

Burhanistan writes "I'd hit it just to be immortalized on the wiki."

Please don't be tempted when you find out we keep a page on deceased members too.
posted by Mitheral at 5:42 PM on December 1, 2008