Sock puppets or a new meme? August 27, 2009 1:20 AM Subscribe
This AskMeFi question has 5 identical answers from 5 different users. Huh?
I will counter your oh-so-clear 'Huh?' with a 'Buh!' of my own.
Have at you, Sir!
posted by Dagobert at 1:23 AM on August 27, 2009
Have at you, Sir!
posted by Dagobert at 1:23 AM on August 27, 2009
MUST. FIGHT. URGE. TO. PASTE. KIBO.SIG...
posted by Diagonalize at 1:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Diagonalize at 1:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Get a lawyer. You are in desparate need of a lawyer for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a lawyer for this.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
Get a lawyer. You are in desparate need of a lawyer for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a lawyer for this.
posted by i_cola at 1:54 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by i_cola at 1:54 AM on August 27, 2009
There are only so many parsable sentences in the world, y'know.
posted by turgid dahlia at 1:54 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by turgid dahlia at 1:54 AM on August 27, 2009
Reduce, reuse, recycle.
posted by Rhomboid at 2:29 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 2:29 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
There are only so many parsable sentences in the world, y'know.
Well, yeah. It helps if you eyelid the the on with the if turnip.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:36 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
Well, yeah. It helps if you eyelid the the on with the if turnip.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:36 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
Well, yeah. It helps if
On preview, nebulawindphone beat me to it.
posted by GeckoDundee at 2:39 AM on August 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
On preview, nebulawindphone beat me to it.
posted by GeckoDundee at 2:39 AM on August 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
"Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers"
posted by robself at 3:00 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by robself at 3:00 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
what's weird is the favorities distribution with those five answers.
i sense some favoritism going on here.
posted by yeoz at 5:04 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
i sense some favoritism going on here.
posted by yeoz at 5:04 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
Some feel it is better to repeat than say nothing at all.
This is the sad scourge of the uncreative.
posted by nineRED at 5:14 AM on August 27, 2009
This is the sad scourge of the uncreative.
posted by nineRED at 5:14 AM on August 27, 2009
Get cortex. You are in desparate need of cortex for this. I'll say it one more time: Get cortex for this.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 AM on August 27, 2009 [10 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 AM on August 27, 2009 [10 favorites]
I think it is people who mean well by trying to create the appearance that the overwhelming consensus is that there can be no other rational response to the asker's question other than recommending he consult an attorney. I understand the impetus behind such a response, and I often see questions where my only thought is "Wow that guy really needs to talk to a lawyer and can get no helpful response from AskMe"; however, I think a repeated answer of "Get a lawyer" is kind of lazy.
Do you personally know how to "get a lawyer"? What would you do to accomplish that? How do you find an attorney that practices in the area you need help with? How can you tell whether an attorney is qualified or not? How much does it cost? Do attorneys in this field work on contingency? Are there ways to consult an attorney when you don't have a lot of money? These are all things that would be helpful to someone who needs to "get a lawyer" right away, but which a response of "get a lawyer" provides no guidance on. I am a lawyer and I don't know what I would do if I needed to consult with an attorney outside of my specialty, other than ask the other lawyers in my firm for their advice, which people on AskMe can't do.
I think we really need a new page on the wiki (and I can try to help with its creation, so that I am not one of those people who are just like "the work other people should do is . . .") with some advice on what "getting a lawyer" entails and some tips for how one can do that. Then, when the only rational response to a question is "get a lawyer" the answerer can link to that page, and the asker can get some information that will make it more possible to follow that advice.
posted by ND¢ at 5:30 AM on August 27, 2009 [49 favorites]
Do you personally know how to "get a lawyer"? What would you do to accomplish that? How do you find an attorney that practices in the area you need help with? How can you tell whether an attorney is qualified or not? How much does it cost? Do attorneys in this field work on contingency? Are there ways to consult an attorney when you don't have a lot of money? These are all things that would be helpful to someone who needs to "get a lawyer" right away, but which a response of "get a lawyer" provides no guidance on. I am a lawyer and I don't know what I would do if I needed to consult with an attorney outside of my specialty, other than ask the other lawyers in my firm for their advice, which people on AskMe can't do.
I think we really need a new page on the wiki (and I can try to help with its creation, so that I am not one of those people who are just like "the work other people should do is . . .") with some advice on what "getting a lawyer" entails and some tips for how one can do that. Then, when the only rational response to a question is "get a lawyer" the answerer can link to that page, and the asker can get some information that will make it more possible to follow that advice.
posted by ND¢ at 5:30 AM on August 27, 2009 [49 favorites]
Get crunk. You are in desparate need of crunk for this. I'll say it one more time: Get crunk for this.
YEEEEEEEEEEEAH
posted by Loto at 5:35 AM on August 27, 2009 [36 favorites]
YEEEEEEEEEEEAH
posted by Loto at 5:35 AM on August 27, 2009 [36 favorites]
I have an urge to go commit some crime, so I can ask ND¢ to represent me. In the future, if anyone replies with a throwaway "Get a Lawyer" in Ask, they need to have the middle paragraph of this comment engraved on their forehead.
Backwards, if possible, so they can read it in the mirror.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:53 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Backwards, if possible, so they can read it in the mirror.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:53 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Get a new meme. You are in desparate need of a new meme for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a new meme for this.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:54 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:54 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Get a batman. You are in desparate need of a batman for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a batman for this. batman.
posted by pwally at 6:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by pwally at 6:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [9 favorites]
Check out the first and second spelling of "desperate" in the OP responses. crush-onastick did do a tiny bit to make the world a better place.
Now, look at "desperate" on this page. You people have killed a kitten somewhere.
posted by gnomeloaf at 6:04 AM on August 27, 2009
Now, look at "desperate" on this page. You people have killed a kitten somewhere.
posted by gnomeloaf at 6:04 AM on August 27, 2009
Check out the first and second spelling of "desperate" in the OP responses. crush-onastick did do a tiny bit to make the world a better place.
Now, look at "desperate" on this page. You people have killed a kitten somewhere.
Get spell check. You are in desperate need of spell check for this. I'll say it one more time: Get spell check for this.
Fixed that for you.
posted by Loto at 6:10 AM on August 27, 2009
Now, look at "desperate" on this page. You people have killed a kitten somewhere.
Get spell check. You are in desperate need of spell check for this. I'll say it one more time: Get spell check for this.
Fixed that for you.
posted by Loto at 6:10 AM on August 27, 2009
You are in desparate need of a lawyer for this. Ask again if you loose.
posted by gubo at 6:18 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by gubo at 6:18 AM on August 27, 2009
Yo dawg, get a lawyer. We heard you are in desperate need of a lawyer for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a lawyer for this so you can lawyer while you lawyer.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 6:28 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 6:28 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Get a lawyer.
I will continue to edit as time permits. Anyone who has useful information, please feel free to contribute.
posted by ND¢ at 6:45 AM on August 27, 2009 [24 favorites]
I will continue to edit as time permits. Anyone who has useful information, please feel free to contribute.
posted by ND¢ at 6:45 AM on August 27, 2009 [24 favorites]
I think the usual "lawyer up" is lazy, condescending (because, gee, a lawyer? What is a lawyer? We never done heard of no lawyer 'round these here parts!), and unhelpful.
Not everything requires a lawyer. Yes, one can hire a lawyer for just about anything. They'll be happy to get you a coffee from Starbucks for a few billable hours, too; doesn't mean they're necessary for every conceivable situation.
If I do need one, and I probably do, what kind of lawyer do I need for this issue? What questions should I ask the receptionist when I call the office of a lawyer who either has the relevant keywords I matched in Google, or has a Yellow Pages ad with those specific terms?
How do I know if I have the right lawyer? Like any other "professional," they come in varying degrees of quality — are there some specific cases/laws that should alarm me if I notice the lawyer in question overlook them? Personal case in point, I sought out some of these lawyer types for a particular issue. Now that I know better, the fact that they sent me off looking for specific records despite "market share liability" in Sindell v. Abbott Laboratories reveals that, although these people were in fact lawyers, they were not as familiar with the relevant case law as they needed to be. Probably why the case went nowhere.
Does anyone have experience in a similar situation? You might have a billable hour or two saved just by a concise explanation and a few helpful links from someone who has been there, versus you know, being charged for what you could have read.
How much will it cost? Precise figures are out, but an order of magnitude estimate is not. ("When I had this done, I got about fifteen hours billed to me" versus "this may drag out for a couple of years")
Does anyone have personal experience to share? Obviously, case law varies by state and your exact situation, but it is nice to have a sense of how things play out versus being directed to enter an office and just passively expecting anything to happen to you.
The kind of reflexive learned helplessness Americans have going on about both medicine and law, wherein anything which could possibly encroach upon the sacred territories of these last two holy professions must immediately be relinquished without thought, well, if that's cool with you, just hand over your wallets and sit in the corner until I tell you what to do, okay?
posted by adipocere at 6:47 AM on August 27, 2009 [13 favorites]
Not everything requires a lawyer. Yes, one can hire a lawyer for just about anything. They'll be happy to get you a coffee from Starbucks for a few billable hours, too; doesn't mean they're necessary for every conceivable situation.
If I do need one, and I probably do, what kind of lawyer do I need for this issue? What questions should I ask the receptionist when I call the office of a lawyer who either has the relevant keywords I matched in Google, or has a Yellow Pages ad with those specific terms?
How do I know if I have the right lawyer? Like any other "professional," they come in varying degrees of quality — are there some specific cases/laws that should alarm me if I notice the lawyer in question overlook them? Personal case in point, I sought out some of these lawyer types for a particular issue. Now that I know better, the fact that they sent me off looking for specific records despite "market share liability" in Sindell v. Abbott Laboratories reveals that, although these people were in fact lawyers, they were not as familiar with the relevant case law as they needed to be. Probably why the case went nowhere.
Does anyone have experience in a similar situation? You might have a billable hour or two saved just by a concise explanation and a few helpful links from someone who has been there, versus you know, being charged for what you could have read.
How much will it cost? Precise figures are out, but an order of magnitude estimate is not. ("When I had this done, I got about fifteen hours billed to me" versus "this may drag out for a couple of years")
Does anyone have personal experience to share? Obviously, case law varies by state and your exact situation, but it is nice to have a sense of how things play out versus being directed to enter an office and just passively expecting anything to happen to you.
The kind of reflexive learned helplessness Americans have going on about both medicine and law, wherein anything which could possibly encroach upon the sacred territories of these last two holy professions must immediately be relinquished without thought, well, if that's cool with you, just hand over your wallets and sit in the corner until I tell you what to do, okay?
posted by adipocere at 6:47 AM on August 27, 2009 [13 favorites]
Funny this came up at the same time as there is a thread on the Blue about how much lawyers suck, amirite?
posted by smackfu at 6:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by smackfu at 6:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
my friend show me, i show metafilter. why no?
posted by Damn That Television at 6:51 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Damn That Television at 6:51 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Get a spouse.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
The kind of reflexive learned helplessness Americans have going on about both medicine and law, wherein anything which could possibly encroach upon the sacred territories of these last two holy professions must immediately be relinquished without thought, well, if that's cool with you, just hand over your wallets and sit in the corner until I tell you what to do, okay?
lol yeah!!!!! dont even get me started on those high and mighty doctor assholes... it's almost like doctors believe they went to some sort of "medical school" where they spent four extremely difficult years learning about the amazing miraculous complexities of the human body, then spent another three to seven years in residency in hands-on training for amazingly specific aspects of their profession, and possibly concurrently two years in a general masters program for public health....Hey Mr Nazi Bush Doctor, explain to me exactly how your decade-worth of the single most difficult educational program on earth is supposed to make me helpless? I've got wikipedia and a stethoscope. Let's fucking do this bitchesssss!!!
posted by Damn That Television at 7:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [16 favorites]
lol yeah!!!!! dont even get me started on those high and mighty doctor assholes... it's almost like doctors believe they went to some sort of "medical school" where they spent four extremely difficult years learning about the amazing miraculous complexities of the human body, then spent another three to seven years in residency in hands-on training for amazingly specific aspects of their profession, and possibly concurrently two years in a general masters program for public health....Hey Mr Nazi Bush Doctor, explain to me exactly how your decade-worth of the single most difficult educational program on earth is supposed to make me helpless? I've got wikipedia and a stethoscope. Let's fucking do this bitchesssss!!!
posted by Damn That Television at 7:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [16 favorites]
Do you personally know how to "get a doctor"? What would you do to accomplish that? How do you find a doctor that specializes is the field you need help with? How can you tell whether a doctor is qualified or not? How much does it cost? Do doctors in this field take insurance? Are there ways to consult a doctor when you don't have a lot of money?
posted by prak at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by prak at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Get a airplane pilot. You are in desparate need of a airplane pilot for this. I'll say it one more time: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:21 AM on August 27, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:21 AM on August 27, 2009 [8 favorites]
Pick up the pieces of your weapon, the glaive. Avoid all boulders.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:34 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by kirkaracha at 7:34 AM on August 27, 2009
The kind of reflexive learned helplessness Americans have going on about both medicine and law, wherein anything which could possibly encroach upon the sacred territories of these last two holy professions must immediately be relinquished without thought, well, if that's cool with you, just hand over your wallets and sit in the corner until I tell you what to do, okay?
I was with you until this last part. Why did you have to be such a jerk about this? The rst of your points are, to my mind, valied.
I had at least one person emailing me "aren't you going to delete those comments, they're clearly noise!" and to tell you the truth if we see that sort of thing happening a lot we'll start telling people to cut that shit out.
That said, and going back to the "when is it okay to question assumptions" discussion, we get people on both sides of the spectrum on these questions a lot of the time. The difference between "Doctor, STAT" answers and "Well it sounds like you're doing okay now so go to a doctor in the morning. If your fever spikes or if you start seeing spots, take yourself to the emergency room" I personally feel that it's always a good idea to explain to people why you are giving the answers you are, i.e. "Since you are already dealing with lawyers, you should really make sure that you are also legally protected, this situation has the potential to get very messy very quickly if you don't have professional assistance"
The fact that there are some situations that, to most MeFites ears, require a doctor or a lawyer ahs fuckall to do with "reflexive learned helplessness" and if you'd like to have a geniune discussion about this, it would be great if you could keep your fighty language for when you're actually trying to fight with everyone.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
I was with you until this last part. Why did you have to be such a jerk about this? The rst of your points are, to my mind, valied.
I had at least one person emailing me "aren't you going to delete those comments, they're clearly noise!" and to tell you the truth if we see that sort of thing happening a lot we'll start telling people to cut that shit out.
That said, and going back to the "when is it okay to question assumptions" discussion, we get people on both sides of the spectrum on these questions a lot of the time. The difference between "Doctor, STAT" answers and "Well it sounds like you're doing okay now so go to a doctor in the morning. If your fever spikes or if you start seeing spots, take yourself to the emergency room" I personally feel that it's always a good idea to explain to people why you are giving the answers you are, i.e. "Since you are already dealing with lawyers, you should really make sure that you are also legally protected, this situation has the potential to get very messy very quickly if you don't have professional assistance"
The fact that there are some situations that, to most MeFites ears, require a doctor or a lawyer ahs fuckall to do with "reflexive learned helplessness" and if you'd like to have a geniune discussion about this, it would be great if you could keep your fighty language for when you're actually trying to fight with everyone.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
The question was asking for specific legal advice about a specific legal situation and by doing so indicating that the poster was looking to avoid a lawyer. (Later confirmed by the poster.) Bad legal advice can be similar to bad medical advice in that it often will make a situation much worse/more expensive.
If you want advice on find a good/affordable lawyer/doctor you should actual ask that in your question and, failing that, I think the only responsible thing is to make it absolutely clear that the involvement of a trained professional is the only reasonable choice.
posted by prak at 7:42 AM on August 27, 2009
If you want advice on find a good/affordable lawyer/doctor you should actual ask that in your question and, failing that, I think the only responsible thing is to make it absolutely clear that the involvement of a trained professional is the only reasonable choice.
posted by prak at 7:42 AM on August 27, 2009
As prak says, the poster was clearly trying to get legal advice on the cheap in a serious situation. As much as I appreciate Metafilter, I wouldn't come here for that, just as I wouldn't come here for advice on medical treatment. There's a reason why professional help is expensive. I'm not a lawyer, but I work in a legal profession, and I know that skimping on initial guidance is about the most direct way to a large bill at the end of the day.
Thus: "Get a lawyer. NOW!" is about the best response that could be given, and should be repeated as many times as necessary. As for it being "lazy", you get what you pay for.
posted by Skeptic at 7:55 AM on August 27, 2009
Thus: "Get a lawyer. NOW!" is about the best response that could be given, and should be repeated as many times as necessary. As for it being "lazy", you get what you pay for.
posted by Skeptic at 7:55 AM on August 27, 2009
As for it being "lazy", you get what you pay for.
And AskMetafilter is as useful as we make it.
posted by ND¢ at 8:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
And AskMetafilter is as useful as we make it.
posted by ND¢ at 8:02 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
It just goes to show, you can't be too careful!
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:07 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:07 AM on August 27, 2009
I am phrasing all of my answers like this from here on out.
"I'm interested in Old English sagas, what do you recommend?"
Get a Beowulf . You are in desperate need of a Beowulf for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a Beowulf for this.
"My drum sound presets just lack that certain something from the '80s."
Get a 808. You are in desperate need of a 808 for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a 808 for this.
"I totally boned my girlfriend's sister, but my gf doesn't know. How can I set up a threeway?"
Get a dumping. You are in desperate need of a dumping for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a dumping for this.
posted by klangklangston at 8:08 AM on August 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
"I'm interested in Old English sagas, what do you recommend?"
Get a Beowulf . You are in desperate need of a Beowulf for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a Beowulf for this.
"My drum sound presets just lack that certain something from the '80s."
Get a 808. You are in desperate need of a 808 for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a 808 for this.
"I totally boned my girlfriend's sister, but my gf doesn't know. How can I set up a threeway?"
Get a dumping. You are in desperate need of a dumping for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a dumping for this.
posted by klangklangston at 8:08 AM on August 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
Get a librarian. You are in desperate need of a librarian for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a librarian for this.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
adipocere is right– just saying "get a lawyer," without any info on what kind of lawyer, etc., is not helpful in the least. Fortunately, some people downthread in the question did begin to address some of that stuff.
"IRS legal action pending; need advice" is a much different question from "What part of the abdomen is sorta brown and rugose, cuz I just removed mine and it's pulsing on the floor; what should I do?" For the latter, the only sane answer is "seek emergency medical care immediately." For the former, it's not like the IRS is going to be there in 5 minutes unless you shine the ND¢ signal (he's a lawyer, I'm not picking on him for any other reason). I am sure the idea of retaining legal counsel had occurred to the questioner at some point, but he or she wants more information of the sort adipocere describes.
posted by Mister_A at 8:14 AM on August 27, 2009
"IRS legal action pending; need advice" is a much different question from "What part of the abdomen is sorta brown and rugose, cuz I just removed mine and it's pulsing on the floor; what should I do?" For the latter, the only sane answer is "seek emergency medical care immediately." For the former, it's not like the IRS is going to be there in 5 minutes unless you shine the ND¢ signal (he's a lawyer, I'm not picking on him for any other reason). I am sure the idea of retaining legal counsel had occurred to the questioner at some point, but he or she wants more information of the sort adipocere describes.
posted by Mister_A at 8:14 AM on August 27, 2009
Get a farmer. You are in desperate need of a midwife for this. I'll say it one more time: Get an engineer for this.
posted by brain_drain at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by brain_drain at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2009
Gotta get a Gateaux, gotta get a Gateaux Cake. If you want a tasty bake: you gotta get a Gateaux Cake.
posted by Elmore at 8:30 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Elmore at 8:30 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Elmore makes a good point.
posted by Mister_A at 8:33 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 8:33 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sometimes people need to know WHY they need a lawyer, and later answers were better at answering that.
posted by empath at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by empath at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2009
Note that if you talked to lawyers already and were scared off by their quotes, that is worth mentioning in the question. Doesn't mean you'll get better answers, but at least people won't assume you don't know to ask a lawyer.
posted by smackfu at 8:37 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by smackfu at 8:37 AM on August 27, 2009
Sometimes people need to know WHY they need a lawyer, and later answers were better at answering that.
posted by Mister_A at 8:37 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 8:37 AM on August 27, 2009
You need to raise up, get yourself together and drive your funky soul. You are in desperate need of raising up, getting yourself together and driving your funky soul. I'll say it one more time: Raise up, get yourself together and drive your funky soul for this.
I need some money.
Fred I need a one million, two million, three million.
When I say Pisces, HOLLA!
Take 'em on home Fred. Take 'em!
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:46 AM on August 27, 2009
I need some money.
Fred I need a one million, two million, three million.
When I say Pisces, HOLLA!
Take 'em on home Fred. Take 'em!
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:46 AM on August 27, 2009
I don't like it when AskMe posts start with "Recommend me".
Not that this one did. I just felt like bitching about something.
posted by iconomy at 8:48 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Not that this one did. I just felt like bitching about something.
posted by iconomy at 8:48 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I prefer "Based on my Amazon shopping history, I might also be interested in?".
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yes, it seems clear that the OP needs to consult a lawyer. No, it's really not that funny that several people decided that that particular AskMe was where they decided to take their broke-leg comedy stand. It's really unclear to me why those answers are remaining as is. I'd thought that AskMe was definitively not the place for yar-yar goofs like this.
I'm also going to choose this place right here to say that for some reason, I just cannot stand the term "fighty." That is all.
posted by Skot at 8:53 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
I'm also going to choose this place right here to say that for some reason, I just cannot stand the term "fighty." That is all.
posted by Skot at 8:53 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
I hate when people say that something is "addicting".
posted by ODiV at 8:55 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 8:55 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
See, I usually agree with you on things like this, skot, but you're a dunder-headed lummox in re: fighty.
posted by Mister_A at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
If we're throwing in random AskMe complaints now, can I nominate ending your FPP with "There is" knowing that the [more inside] link will follow? It's neither cute nor clever, and once you're in the actual question page it looks like the poster doesn't know how to complete their final thought for the FPP. It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too.
posted by owtytrof at 8:57 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by owtytrof at 8:57 AM on August 27, 2009
I hate when people say that something is "addicting".
Oh dear lord yes I hate that so much. Where the fuck did that come from? I've only heard it in the last few years, but now I hear it everywhere and it makes me want to just straight up hulk out and smash a coffee table.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:59 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Well, since you asked, jessamyn ...
Given the number of times I've caught doctors, for whom either I or my insurance company are paying good money, in either verifiable factual errors (hearing someone who has more than one board certification tell you straight up that XYY is Klinefelter's Syndrome is pretty funny) and errors in practice, yeah, I have a healthy skepticism. They aren't magic people, doing magic things. Doctors are people, and people screw up. Sometimes they are lazy, or irresponsible, or they are mistaken, or they make poor decisions. When you end up in the ER a few times due to various oopsies, the shine wears off.
The claim is that they do science (although much of medicine is now a technical job), and as such, I will hold them to that. One of the neat things about science is that if a chimp hands me a pill versus a high priest in his white robe handing me the pill, the pill still works the same for me. Science doesn't care how much time you put in or what school you went to.
Personally, I followed my symptoms and the science, and, after a very unpleasant year of battling through more than half a dozen doctors, many of whom were nice people who went to some very nice schools, in a variety of specialties, I finally forced them to do a test which, shazam, proved that I had what I said I had. This, after a lot of conversations which pretty much translated to "sit down and shut up, kid." One still insisted that I could not have the symptoms I had, so I finally sent him some articles that I researched, in his chosen field, which proved otherwise.
I was nineteen; we did not have The Google then. Was it rare? Yup! Was it unlikely? Yup! But it was just as rare and unlikely for me as it was for them. Despite greater education and access to more resources, they were still incorrect.
And while, yes, there's a huge feeling of neener neener neener in there, and I did bloat with gloat, it brought home to me a simple fact: these are not magic people to whom I should turn over all decisions and rational thought. They can be wrong, and wrong in ways which lead to things like having spasms in the middle of Taco Bell and then involuntarily curling up like a dead spider because I was minus some cerebrospinal fluid. Wrong with all kinds of unpleasant consequences and lost months. Wrong, but insisting I couldn't possibly be right because I did not have a white coat.
Because of that, what could have been Spring Break was spent with tubes in all kinds of unpleasant places, with phrases like, "We should really look at this. But there's a chance you might die" coming at mke. Because of that, I have a summer where my sole memory is sitting in the bathtub, watching numbly as the shower pounded down on me, and wiping great handfuls of hair off of my scalp and into the drain with a feeling of total detachment. "Oh, my hair is coming out now." That's all I've got out of what should have been my first glorious college summer of freedom.
While they may be professionals, they simply do not have the stake in my life that I do. So, yes, I'll keep my brain turned on when dealing with them or anyone else. I heartily endorse skepticism over blind faith in most places, but most especially in situations where you're talking with someone who says, "Don't worry, I'll do the thinking for you."
I'm a jerk about this because nobody was a jerk about it for me. I'm fighty because I wish someone (which is to say, my parents) had fought for me instead of manifesting the ingrained "doctor knows best" behavior. Because, sometimes, if you don't think for yourself and fight like hell, the consequences can really suck*.
I will now be fighty with SKot.
* suck in the bad way
posted by adipocere at 9:06 AM on August 27, 2009 [9 favorites]
Given the number of times I've caught doctors, for whom either I or my insurance company are paying good money, in either verifiable factual errors (hearing someone who has more than one board certification tell you straight up that XYY is Klinefelter's Syndrome is pretty funny) and errors in practice, yeah, I have a healthy skepticism. They aren't magic people, doing magic things. Doctors are people, and people screw up. Sometimes they are lazy, or irresponsible, or they are mistaken, or they make poor decisions. When you end up in the ER a few times due to various oopsies, the shine wears off.
The claim is that they do science (although much of medicine is now a technical job), and as such, I will hold them to that. One of the neat things about science is that if a chimp hands me a pill versus a high priest in his white robe handing me the pill, the pill still works the same for me. Science doesn't care how much time you put in or what school you went to.
Personally, I followed my symptoms and the science, and, after a very unpleasant year of battling through more than half a dozen doctors, many of whom were nice people who went to some very nice schools, in a variety of specialties, I finally forced them to do a test which, shazam, proved that I had what I said I had. This, after a lot of conversations which pretty much translated to "sit down and shut up, kid." One still insisted that I could not have the symptoms I had, so I finally sent him some articles that I researched, in his chosen field, which proved otherwise.
I was nineteen; we did not have The Google then. Was it rare? Yup! Was it unlikely? Yup! But it was just as rare and unlikely for me as it was for them. Despite greater education and access to more resources, they were still incorrect.
And while, yes, there's a huge feeling of neener neener neener in there, and I did bloat with gloat, it brought home to me a simple fact: these are not magic people to whom I should turn over all decisions and rational thought. They can be wrong, and wrong in ways which lead to things like having spasms in the middle of Taco Bell and then involuntarily curling up like a dead spider because I was minus some cerebrospinal fluid. Wrong with all kinds of unpleasant consequences and lost months. Wrong, but insisting I couldn't possibly be right because I did not have a white coat.
Because of that, what could have been Spring Break was spent with tubes in all kinds of unpleasant places, with phrases like, "We should really look at this. But there's a chance you might die" coming at mke. Because of that, I have a summer where my sole memory is sitting in the bathtub, watching numbly as the shower pounded down on me, and wiping great handfuls of hair off of my scalp and into the drain with a feeling of total detachment. "Oh, my hair is coming out now." That's all I've got out of what should have been my first glorious college summer of freedom.
While they may be professionals, they simply do not have the stake in my life that I do. So, yes, I'll keep my brain turned on when dealing with them or anyone else. I heartily endorse skepticism over blind faith in most places, but most especially in situations where you're talking with someone who says, "Don't worry, I'll do the thinking for you."
I'm a jerk about this because nobody was a jerk about it for me. I'm fighty because I wish someone (which is to say, my parents) had fought for me instead of manifesting the ingrained "doctor knows best" behavior. Because, sometimes, if you don't think for yourself and fight like hell, the consequences can really suck*.
I will now be fighty with SKot.
* suck in the bad way
posted by adipocere at 9:06 AM on August 27, 2009 [9 favorites]
If we're throwing in random AskMe complaints now, can I nominate ending your FPP with "There is" knowing that the [more inside] link will follow? It's neither cute nor clever, and once you're in the actual question page it looks like the poster doesn't know how to complete their final thought for the FPP.
Yeah, I've seen this issue pop up a lot over the last few years. Yeah, it annoys some people. No, some people will never stop thinking it's cute.
It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too.
I'm guessing it's cyclical in relation to:
A) The last time there was a large public airing out on the subject.
B) Other people seeing someone do it and thinking it's cute, and snowballing from there.
posted by empyrean at 9:07 AM on August 27, 2009
Yeah, I've seen this issue pop up a lot over the last few years. Yeah, it annoys some people. No, some people will never stop thinking it's cute.
It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too.
I'm guessing it's cyclical in relation to:
A) The last time there was a large public airing out on the subject.
B) Other people seeing someone do it and thinking it's cute, and snowballing from there.
posted by empyrean at 9:07 AM on August 27, 2009
I don't like the word "moist". I don't like saying it, I don't like hearing it, I just don't like it.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:07 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jerseygirl at 9:07 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm on record as saying that World War Hulk contained a disappointing number of coffee table-smashings. "Oh, ho hum, now he's turning Iron Man into a discarded soda can for the millionth time. Why can't he wreck some den furniture for a change?" But nobody listens to me, possibly because I am a dunder-headed lummox.
posted by Skot at 9:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Skot at 9:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
One of the neat things about science is that if a chimp hands me a pill versus a high priest in his white robe handing me the pill, the pill still works the same for me.
Not to be all fighty and pedantic, but
O RLY?
posted by Mister_A at 9:12 AM on August 27, 2009
Not to be all fighty and pedantic, but
O RLY?
posted by Mister_A at 9:12 AM on August 27, 2009
I don't like the word "moist". I don't like saying it, I don't like hearing it, I just don't like it.
This seems to be kind of a common thing for women, for some reason. I've heard more than one say this.
posted by empath at 9:15 AM on August 27, 2009
This seems to be kind of a common thing for women, for some reason. I've heard more than one say this.
posted by empath at 9:15 AM on August 27, 2009
An additional wiki page for when the answer to a question is "you may not need to get a lawyer you may just need some legal information": Legal information available online.
I promise I am not trying to turn the Metafilter wiki into a guide to getting legal assistance, which is not its purpose, but law related questions come up enough in AskMe that I believe these issues are worth addressing in the wiki.
posted by ND¢ at 9:19 AM on August 27, 2009
I promise I am not trying to turn the Metafilter wiki into a guide to getting legal assistance, which is not its purpose, but law related questions come up enough in AskMe that I believe these issues are worth addressing in the wiki.
posted by ND¢ at 9:19 AM on August 27, 2009
I don't like the word "panties".
Me either. Also, "panache".
posted by jerseygirl at 9:21 AM on August 27, 2009
Me either. Also, "panache".
posted by jerseygirl at 9:21 AM on August 27, 2009
While we're airing linguistic grievances, the term "passion" makes me irrationally displeased.
Also, NDC, good on you for starting the "get a lawyer" wiki page.
posted by Alterscape at 9:23 AM on August 27, 2009
Also, NDC, good on you for starting the "get a lawyer" wiki page.
posted by Alterscape at 9:23 AM on August 27, 2009
Yeah, it annoys some people. No, some people will never stop thinking it's cute.
I flag it as HTML error. I am sorry, but I hate that.
posted by smackfu at 9:24 AM on August 27, 2009
I flag it as HTML error. I am sorry, but I hate that.
posted by smackfu at 9:24 AM on August 27, 2009
I added both the "Get a Lawyer" and the "Legal information available online" wiki pages to the Frequently Asked Of Metafilter Law and Government section.
posted by ND¢ at 9:26 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ND¢ at 9:26 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Panties is just a terrible word. Terrible. Everyone should just refer to all undergarments as "draws", or possibly "choneys".
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's really unclear to me why those answers are remaining as is. I'd thought that AskMe was definitively not the place for yar-yar goofs like this.
It's a weird one-off where the thread itself kind of resolved the situation already and had incorporated the event into the conversation to the point where removing them would have been more disruptive than normal. We could have scooped it out, it became a coinflip and this time it came up tails.
Like Jess said, if we see this repeating itself, we'll take action on it. I can sympathize with the argument that it maybe should have been killed in the first place just to prevent the mistaken impression from the inattentive that it's a-okay to do that, but we chose not to handle it that way this time out, and we'll deal with the fallout if there is some.
Most of the "we" above is Jessamyn, since Matt was working podcast-editing and site stuff yesterday and I could barely type on account of a sore wrist, too, so there was some practical pressure for a good-enough solution without too much lengthy dickering. So it goes on occasion.
If we're throwing in random AskMe complaints now, can I nominate ending your FPP with "There is" knowing that the [more inside] link will follow? It's neither cute nor clever, and once you're in the actual question page it looks like the poster doesn't know how to complete their final thought for the FPP. It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too.
Oh, man, it happens so much less than it used to. We made a change a while back so that the [more inside] tag is AWOL from the question-preview page and that seemed to mostly cure it after a roll-off period while folks sorta forgot about it.
empyrean is basically on the money.
If you see 'em, flag 'em. "display error" is fine, I always look for it on askme questions flagged such.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:30 AM on August 27, 2009
It's a weird one-off where the thread itself kind of resolved the situation already and had incorporated the event into the conversation to the point where removing them would have been more disruptive than normal. We could have scooped it out, it became a coinflip and this time it came up tails.
Like Jess said, if we see this repeating itself, we'll take action on it. I can sympathize with the argument that it maybe should have been killed in the first place just to prevent the mistaken impression from the inattentive that it's a-okay to do that, but we chose not to handle it that way this time out, and we'll deal with the fallout if there is some.
Most of the "we" above is Jessamyn, since Matt was working podcast-editing and site stuff yesterday and I could barely type on account of a sore wrist, too, so there was some practical pressure for a good-enough solution without too much lengthy dickering. So it goes on occasion.
If we're throwing in random AskMe complaints now, can I nominate ending your FPP with "There is" knowing that the [more inside] link will follow? It's neither cute nor clever, and once you're in the actual question page it looks like the poster doesn't know how to complete their final thought for the FPP. It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too.
Oh, man, it happens so much less than it used to. We made a change a while back so that the [more inside] tag is AWOL from the question-preview page and that seemed to mostly cure it after a roll-off period while folks sorta forgot about it.
empyrean is basically on the money.
If you see 'em, flag 'em. "display error" is fine, I always look for it on askme questions flagged such.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:30 AM on August 27, 2009
I like jam
posted by edgeways at 9:31 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 9:31 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I hate it when buttocks are referred to as "buns." Man, I hate that.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:32 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Bookhouse at 9:32 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Recommend me a sentence using the following words: jam, buns, panties, panache, fighty, and moist.
posted by iconomy at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by iconomy at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
But "don't want none / unless you got buttocks hun" doesn't scan.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [4 favorites]
I don't like the word "panties".
Huh, I am apparently married to you. I hope that's not startling. Just out of curiosity, are you also bummed out by the word "juice"?
posted by Skot at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009
Huh, I am apparently married to you. I hope that's not startling. Just out of curiosity, are you also bummed out by the word "juice"?
posted by Skot at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009
Sometimes people need to know WHY they need a lawyer, and later answers were better at answering that.
Sometimes it is clear that people know they need a lawyer and are looking for any excuse to avoid one.
posted by prak at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Sometimes it is clear that people know they need a lawyer and are looking for any excuse to avoid one.
posted by prak at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Just out of curiosity, are you also bummed out by the word "juice"?
No, because it doesn't have negative connotations. I likes me some juice. I hate the pervy, Frederick's of Hollywood, creepy Uncle vibe I get from the word "panties". You can't make me like it.
Can you pick up some wheat bread on the way home tonight, honey? Love you.
posted by iconomy at 9:38 AM on August 27, 2009
No, because it doesn't have negative connotations. I likes me some juice. I hate the pervy, Frederick's of Hollywood, creepy Uncle vibe I get from the word "panties". You can't make me like it.
Can you pick up some wheat bread on the way home tonight, honey? Love you.
posted by iconomy at 9:38 AM on August 27, 2009
I don't mind buns in the right context, makes me feel like it might still be the early 80's or the late 70's and one could still drive a wood-paneled Jeep and swim in a nice lake and enjoy a can of beer and a hotdog, carefree without the knowledge that we would be living in a state of total ridiculousness in 2009.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:38 AM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
"That dame sure knows how to jam her buns into her panties with panache. It near to makes me fighty and moist. Boy, what I wouldn't give to get into her choneys."
Okay, needs work.
posted by Skot at 9:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Okay, needs work.
posted by Skot at 9:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
There are only so many parsable sentences in the world, y'know.
Yes, but how many?
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:43 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yes, but how many?
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:43 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
"That dame sure knows how to jam her buns into her panties with panache. It near to makes me fighty and moist.
I feel nauseous.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:44 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
I feel nauseous.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:44 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
adipocere: your skepticism is misplaced. Your frustration should be directed to the particular doctor, not to the entirety of the medical and legal profession. A mistake you experienced is one instance and does not suggest the conclusion you are espousing.
Doctors are trained highly trained individuals. And sometimes even they make mistakes or are uncertain of things. They are fallible. That's why it can be worthwhile to get a second opinion on things. But the fallibility of doctors is not an indication that doctors should not be trusted with medical questions. What it shows is that some medical questions are so tricky that even trained doctors may not know the answers out right. As such, it is beyond dangerous to rely on opinions and statements from untrained individuals on the equally complicated subject. If it is something that even a trained doctor can be confused about, how stupid does one have to be to rely on some random layperson's opinions on the subject?
The same is true with lawyers. And here I see the folly of it. 99% of substantive legal advice I have seen on this website from laypersons has been wrong. Dead wrong. The reason? Because even when some layperson thinks they know about Issue A, they don't know about Issues B and C, and their ignorance of those subjects prevents them from realizing that Issues B and C render the application of Issue A moot.
Being wrong is not just saying yes when the answer is no. Being wrong includes giving an incomplete picture. Being wrong includes not spotting a particular issue and factoring in how that affects the situation. Being wrong can even come down to not explaining when the advice should be followed or to whom it should be directed.
This plays out in both the medical and legal arena. Completely made up example to show point: Symptoms A, B and C means you probably just have an allergic reaction which will go away within 24 hours, see explanation here. (True... except when it is accompanied by Achilles Tendon pain which is a sign of Rare Condition Y that will kill you if not treated in 12 hours.... ooops, lay individual and link didn't consider that fact in their superficial gloss on the subject).
Lay individuals are too ignorant of the issues to know what they are missing. So they may think they know the full story, but because of their ignorance, they fail to grasp the issues they are missing.
And please note: I do not use ignorance here as a derogatory term. Only descriptive. I am ignorant of computer programming. And while I know that sometimes just restarting a computer seems to fix things for me, there may be times when that is a bad idea but I'm too ignorant to know if I am faced with the scenario in which that is the case.
Getting any form of medical or legal advice from lay individuals on this site is a bad idea. In every circumstance. Because there are not the appropriate measures in place to explain what lay advice is good and bad, and clearly the person asking the question is someone who is incapable of determining what advice is good and what advice is bad. As such, there is no benefit from getting the advice because it is inherently unreliable. Yet, there is a major, potentially life-altering downside of relying on bad advice.
posted by dios at 9:45 AM on August 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
Doctors are trained highly trained individuals. And sometimes even they make mistakes or are uncertain of things. They are fallible. That's why it can be worthwhile to get a second opinion on things. But the fallibility of doctors is not an indication that doctors should not be trusted with medical questions. What it shows is that some medical questions are so tricky that even trained doctors may not know the answers out right. As such, it is beyond dangerous to rely on opinions and statements from untrained individuals on the equally complicated subject. If it is something that even a trained doctor can be confused about, how stupid does one have to be to rely on some random layperson's opinions on the subject?
The same is true with lawyers. And here I see the folly of it. 99% of substantive legal advice I have seen on this website from laypersons has been wrong. Dead wrong. The reason? Because even when some layperson thinks they know about Issue A, they don't know about Issues B and C, and their ignorance of those subjects prevents them from realizing that Issues B and C render the application of Issue A moot.
Being wrong is not just saying yes when the answer is no. Being wrong includes giving an incomplete picture. Being wrong includes not spotting a particular issue and factoring in how that affects the situation. Being wrong can even come down to not explaining when the advice should be followed or to whom it should be directed.
This plays out in both the medical and legal arena. Completely made up example to show point: Symptoms A, B and C means you probably just have an allergic reaction which will go away within 24 hours, see explanation here. (True... except when it is accompanied by Achilles Tendon pain which is a sign of Rare Condition Y that will kill you if not treated in 12 hours.... ooops, lay individual and link didn't consider that fact in their superficial gloss on the subject).
Lay individuals are too ignorant of the issues to know what they are missing. So they may think they know the full story, but because of their ignorance, they fail to grasp the issues they are missing.
And please note: I do not use ignorance here as a derogatory term. Only descriptive. I am ignorant of computer programming. And while I know that sometimes just restarting a computer seems to fix things for me, there may be times when that is a bad idea but I'm too ignorant to know if I am faced with the scenario in which that is the case.
Getting any form of medical or legal advice from lay individuals on this site is a bad idea. In every circumstance. Because there are not the appropriate measures in place to explain what lay advice is good and bad, and clearly the person asking the question is someone who is incapable of determining what advice is good and what advice is bad. As such, there is no benefit from getting the advice because it is inherently unreliable. Yet, there is a major, potentially life-altering downside of relying on bad advice.
posted by dios at 9:45 AM on August 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
Just out of curiosity, are you also bummed out by the word "juice"?
Maybe it's polyamory. "Juice" makes me think of spurting wounds and rot and... what were you saying about connotations, iconomy?
posted by katillathehun at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2009
Maybe it's polyamory. "Juice" makes me think of spurting wounds and rot and... what were you saying about connotations, iconomy?
posted by katillathehun at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2009
Fighty panties jam moist buns panache.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by YoBananaBoy at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2009
I am a woman and I like the word "moist", primarily because my old roommate found it repulsive.
Although I like actual panties, I have no strong feelings for "panties". It is, however, kind of fun when paired with "frilly". Much like "cats" and "bananas", sometimes the mere mention of the word "pants" can make me giggle. I really, really like the word "pants". I also enjoy crude juvenile double entendres. Basically I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy. Who likes frilly panties.
I have great affection for the phrase "bacterial lawn".
I cannot stand "crap".
posted by little e at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2009
Although I like actual panties, I have no strong feelings for "panties". It is, however, kind of fun when paired with "frilly". Much like "cats" and "bananas", sometimes the mere mention of the word "pants" can make me giggle. I really, really like the word "pants". I also enjoy crude juvenile double entendres. Basically I have the sense of humor of a 12 year old boy. Who likes frilly panties.
I have great affection for the phrase "bacterial lawn".
I cannot stand "crap".
posted by little e at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2009
I'm going to go lie down on the floor of my cubicle for a bit.
posted by jerseygirl at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jerseygirl at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who insists that "panties" is the dirtiest word in the English language. If you say "moist panties," the singularity erupts.
posted by Mister_A at 9:52 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 9:52 AM on August 27, 2009
I have great affection for the phrase "bacterial lawn".
I simply must know who uses this phrase!
posted by misha at 9:57 AM on August 27, 2009
I simply must know who uses this phrase!
posted by misha at 9:57 AM on August 27, 2009
Recommend me a sentence using the following words: jam, buns, panties, panache, fighty, and moist.
When Aunt Martha brought homemade jam and freshly baked hot cross buns to the family picnic, Aunt Ethel got her panties in a twist and said the buns lacked panache, which caused the two sides of the family to get all fighty with each other, resulting in awkward silence for the rest of the day and moist eyes all around.
posted by amyms at 9:57 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
When Aunt Martha brought homemade jam and freshly baked hot cross buns to the family picnic, Aunt Ethel got her panties in a twist and said the buns lacked panache, which caused the two sides of the family to get all fighty with each other, resulting in awkward silence for the rest of the day and moist eyes all around.
posted by amyms at 9:57 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Get taters. You are in desparate need of hardcore taters for this. I'll say it one more time: Get taters for this.
posted by ob at 9:59 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ob at 9:59 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just want to tell you both good luck. We’re all counting on you.
posted by ALongDecember at 10:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by ALongDecember at 10:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [5 favorites]
Bacterial lawn. Although in my social circle, it saw far more frequent use as a euphemism for pubes.
Oh, "moist panties" was enough to send my roommate into an apoplectic fit. Of course, she would in turn make fun of my obsessive need to always use the same detergent and hair care products lest I be able to smell myself all day (Whispering in class: DUDE smell my shirt. I know you got Tide, but what FLAVOR of Tide? I don't think this is April Fresh and it's FREAKING ME OUT)
Sometimes when I was in the shower she'd randomly come barging in and give me a beer. God, I miss living with her.
posted by little e at 10:05 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh, "moist panties" was enough to send my roommate into an apoplectic fit. Of course, she would in turn make fun of my obsessive need to always use the same detergent and hair care products lest I be able to smell myself all day (Whispering in class: DUDE smell my shirt. I know you got Tide, but what FLAVOR of Tide? I don't think this is April Fresh and it's FREAKING ME OUT)
Sometimes when I was in the shower she'd randomly come barging in and give me a beer. God, I miss living with her.
posted by little e at 10:05 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Mister_A: So wait, if anyone invokes moist panties, we all upload our consciousness into sentient computers and Ray Kurzweil does a (virtual) jig? Sounds a bit self-defeating to me..
What's that you say? Wrong singularity? Well alright then, carry on.
posted by Alterscape at 10:06 AM on August 27, 2009
What's that you say? Wrong singularity? Well alright then, carry on.
posted by Alterscape at 10:06 AM on August 27, 2009
Thanks for the commiseration, tips, and tricks on the [more inside] thing.
/me dons flagging glove.
That's flagging!
posted by owtytrof at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2009
/me dons flagging glove.
That's flagging!
posted by owtytrof at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2009
Recommend me a sentence using the following words: jam, buns, panties, panache, fighty, and moist.
I have a paragraph. Does this pass muster?
Michael Steele was in a jam. He knew that the Republican convention cook-out had to be a success, yet his burger buns hadn't arrived. It was a faux-pas akin to turning up to church with Santorum-stained panties. He knew that a lack of cook-out panache would hamper his chances of the chairmanship and that the pro-burger vs anti-brat lobbies would get all fighty if only hot dog buns were provided. Still, he could rely on Larry Craig getting all moist once he saw the fine weiners that Steele had procured, so at least he would have one ally.
posted by ob at 10:13 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have a paragraph. Does this pass muster?
Michael Steele was in a jam. He knew that the Republican convention cook-out had to be a success, yet his burger buns hadn't arrived. It was a faux-pas akin to turning up to church with Santorum-stained panties. He knew that a lack of cook-out panache would hamper his chances of the chairmanship and that the pro-burger vs anti-brat lobbies would get all fighty if only hot dog buns were provided. Still, he could rely on Larry Craig getting all moist once he saw the fine weiners that Steele had procured, so at least he would have one ally.
posted by ob at 10:13 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Get a flag. You are in desperate need of a flag for this. I'll say it one more time: Get a flag for this.
posted by klangklangston at 10:15 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by klangklangston at 10:15 AM on August 27, 2009
The "moist" chronicles, continued.
'I HATE the word MOIST': 839 Facebook members can't be wrong!
posted by KatlaDragon at 10:27 AM on August 27, 2009
'I HATE the word MOIST': 839 Facebook members can't be wrong!
posted by KatlaDragon at 10:27 AM on August 27, 2009
I KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS MEME THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
posted by GuyZero at 10:29 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by GuyZero at 10:29 AM on August 27, 2009
If you strike this meme down, it will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
posted by Mister_A at 10:34 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 10:34 AM on August 27, 2009
The claim is that they do science (although much of medicine is now a technical job), and as such, I will hold them to that. One of the neat things about science is that if a chimp hands me a pill versus a high priest in his white robe handing me the pill, the pill still works the same for me. Science doesn't care how much time you put in or what school you went to.
Look, I'm sorry you had a fluke run of shitty doctors. It certainly does happen, and it's a paralyzing, awful, helpless feeling. (Trust me, I know, too.) And I'm glad you're better and very sorry that you had to be the one to solve the original problem, plus the problems created by misdiagnoses, and I certainly see how an experience like that could chance your opinion of medicine.
But you're misunderstanding the field of medicine to such a ridiculous degree when you write something like the above that I have to assume you're just trolling, or venting, or some combination thereof.
posted by Damn That Television at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Look, I'm sorry you had a fluke run of shitty doctors. It certainly does happen, and it's a paralyzing, awful, helpless feeling. (Trust me, I know, too.) And I'm glad you're better and very sorry that you had to be the one to solve the original problem, plus the problems created by misdiagnoses, and I certainly see how an experience like that could chance your opinion of medicine.
But you're misunderstanding the field of medicine to such a ridiculous degree when you write something like the above that I have to assume you're just trolling, or venting, or some combination thereof.
posted by Damn That Television at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've composed a tongue-twister in honor of this occasion:
Dissenters divulging various disparate versions of desperate devolve to despair despite vociferous divergence.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:57 AM on August 27, 2009
Dissenters divulging various disparate versions of desperate devolve to despair despite vociferous divergence.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:57 AM on August 27, 2009
My best work along these lines was:
Uncle Bundy undid bungeed undy bundles.
Unfortunately, that doesn't play too well to the matter at hand, which is why I composed anew.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Uncle Bundy undid bungeed undy bundles.
Unfortunately, that doesn't play too well to the matter at hand, which is why I composed anew.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:01 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
My anaconda will be flummoxed/Unless you posses some ample buttocks.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:08 AM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:08 AM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
And that my friends, is how a meme is born.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:09 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by blue_beetle at 11:09 AM on August 27, 2009
ND¢, seriously, I was waiting for my 7 day wait to finish so I could post a "I know you're not my lawyer, so seriously, how do I find an entertainment lawyer in Chicago?" post.
This is not something you really feel comfortable browsing the phone book for, and not something most of us have done before.
Thanks to your hella excellent wikipage, I got a referral to Andresen and Associates, found reviews attesting to their truthworthiness, and didn't have to waste an AskMefi question on ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER CHICAGO HOPE ME.
Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.
posted by Juliet Banana at 11:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is not something you really feel comfortable browsing the phone book for, and not something most of us have done before.
Thanks to your hella excellent wikipage, I got a referral to Andresen and Associates, found reviews attesting to their truthworthiness, and didn't have to waste an AskMefi question on ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER CHICAGO HOPE ME.
Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.
posted by Juliet Banana at 11:09 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Even better, your question would have been a pale shadow of ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER E.R. ME, so we're all saved from that.
posted by Kwine at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by Kwine at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2009
There is a fpp here to be made on word-aversion, i think.
posted by empath at 11:14 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by empath at 11:14 AM on August 27, 2009
Thanks Juliet Banana. I am so glad it actually helped someone.
posted by ND¢ at 11:17 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ND¢ at 11:17 AM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Here's the thing between the "get a doctor" and "get a lawyer" advice.
Unless you grew up in a developing country, you have been to the doctor. It is already pretty likely that you have a doctor. And even if you don't, if you go to a "doctor" in the general sense, that means you are probably going to a general practitioner or family doctor, who actually specializes in figuring out what is probably wrong with you and ferrying you off to a specialist who can help you in a more exact way.
As far as I know, there is not an analogue in the legal system. Some richer people have a "family lawyer" who may serve the same functions, but this is rare for most people. Even than, the family doctor is probably actually a specialist in family law and may not even be able to recommend a lawyer specializing in a particular area.
I think you can just say "This [xyz] is serious enough that you should go to a doctor" without offering much additional help and still be offering a useful answer.
As far as helplessness vs. doctors: I've posted a few AskMes, real and anonymous, that involved health advice. I was generally genuinely curious whether I should seek a professional or deal with it on my own. In most of the cases, someone said, "Go to a professional" and offered pretty compelling reasons for me to do so. And you know what? That really worked well for me.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:18 AM on August 27, 2009
Unless you grew up in a developing country, you have been to the doctor. It is already pretty likely that you have a doctor. And even if you don't, if you go to a "doctor" in the general sense, that means you are probably going to a general practitioner or family doctor, who actually specializes in figuring out what is probably wrong with you and ferrying you off to a specialist who can help you in a more exact way.
As far as I know, there is not an analogue in the legal system. Some richer people have a "family lawyer" who may serve the same functions, but this is rare for most people. Even than, the family doctor is probably actually a specialist in family law and may not even be able to recommend a lawyer specializing in a particular area.
I think you can just say "This [xyz] is serious enough that you should go to a doctor" without offering much additional help and still be offering a useful answer.
As far as helplessness vs. doctors: I've posted a few AskMes, real and anonymous, that involved health advice. I was generally genuinely curious whether I should seek a professional or deal with it on my own. In most of the cases, someone said, "Go to a professional" and offered pretty compelling reasons for me to do so. And you know what? That really worked well for me.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:18 AM on August 27, 2009
As I was walking home this evening, a little girl was riding her bike in the middle of the street. She still had the training wheels on as she wobbled and struggled to peddle. It reminded me of when I was little and how badly I wanted a bicycle but couldn't get one. My parents wouldn't let me have a bike until I was 12; my mom was too afraid I'd hurt myself. I'd pass the bike section in the store and just look, having given up asking my parents about it long ago. I eventually did get one after much pleading and begging. Amazingly, getting my driver's license at 16 and the subsequent borrowing of the family car passed without incident.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:37 AM on August 27, 2009
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:37 AM on August 27, 2009
Jesus. Have you people nothing better to do than repeat the same joke?
Get a life. You are in desperate need of a life. I'll say it one more time: Get a life.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:37 AM on August 27, 2009
Get a life. You are in desperate need of a life. I'll say it one more time: Get a life.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:37 AM on August 27, 2009
Recommend me a sentence using the following words: jam, buns, panties, panache, fighty, and moist.
Pancakes. You don't need a whole sentence when you have pancakes. Pancakes is all that and then what would you pay? Except for fighty and fighty is bad, even though they'll fuck up a pat of butter something fierce. We all do.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:13 PM on August 27, 2009
Pancakes. You don't need a whole sentence when you have pancakes. Pancakes is all that and then what would you pay? Except for fighty and fighty is bad, even though they'll fuck up a pat of butter something fierce. We all do.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:13 PM on August 27, 2009
"She still had the training wheels on as she wobbled and struggled to peddle."
So, what was she peddling?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 12:20 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, what was she peddling?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 12:20 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
'Tis a struggle to peddle anything in these sorry times, my friend. My once-lucrative pixel business has shrunk by megabytes since the pixel bubble burst.
posted by Mister_A at 12:25 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by Mister_A at 12:25 PM on August 27, 2009
Get a plate of beans. You are in desparate need of beans for this. I'll say it one more time: Get beans for this.
posted by mrbill at 12:26 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by mrbill at 12:26 PM on August 27, 2009
Did I misunderstand adipocere's rant? I took his point to be "go to doctors, but don't just trust them blindly; try to be as informed as possible". Can't see anything to disagree with there...
posted by equalpants at 12:33 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by equalpants at 12:33 PM on August 27, 2009
Did I misunderstand adipocere's rant? I took his point to be "go to doctors, but don't just trust them blindly; try to be as informed as possible".
Well, but if that were his point, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread, where we're talking about whether the advice to "get a lawyer" or "get a doctor" is given too freely. I think his skepticism is a bit more extreme -- that self-diagnosis is often more valuable than professional input, because you are more heavily invested than the doctor in the outcome. I think education, training, and experience are more valuable in diagnosing and treating illness than wanting a good outcome.
I guess this is where I should tell my stories of when I went to the doctor and it turned out I had exactly what he said I did.
And personally, I think his example of DIY legal analysis only confirmed my opinion that people need a lawyer for legal advice.
posted by palliser at 1:12 PM on August 27, 2009
Well, but if that were his point, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread, where we're talking about whether the advice to "get a lawyer" or "get a doctor" is given too freely. I think his skepticism is a bit more extreme -- that self-diagnosis is often more valuable than professional input, because you are more heavily invested than the doctor in the outcome. I think education, training, and experience are more valuable in diagnosing and treating illness than wanting a good outcome.
I guess this is where I should tell my stories of when I went to the doctor and it turned out I had exactly what he said I did.
And personally, I think his example of DIY legal analysis only confirmed my opinion that people need a lawyer for legal advice.
posted by palliser at 1:12 PM on August 27, 2009
So, I have a problem with "bun jam" in my (moist) panties, which, despite being a man, I wear with panache--though my wife is a bit fighty about this.
posted by maxwelton at 1:19 PM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 1:19 PM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
And AskMetafilter is as useful as we make it.
Nah, we should bake it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:21 PM on August 27, 2009
Nah, we should bake it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:21 PM on August 27, 2009
Get your ass pixilated, max. It will look a bit funny, but people will never notice the jam.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:23 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:23 PM on August 27, 2009
pixelated, sorry.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:24 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:24 PM on August 27, 2009
It is just a coincidence.
Looks like a streetlight to me.
These are not the droids we are looking for.
posted by Iron Rat at 1:26 PM on August 27, 2009
Looks like a streetlight to me.
These are not the droids we are looking for.
posted by Iron Rat at 1:26 PM on August 27, 2009
My anaconda don't want any/Unless you've a huge fanny [UK-IST]
My anaconda will not dance/Unless you've got full pants
My anaconda will not play/Unless you've got boo-tay
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:27 PM on August 27, 2009
My anaconda will not dance/Unless you've got full pants
My anaconda will not play/Unless you've got boo-tay
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:27 PM on August 27, 2009
Fucking hell little e - I can't ever unknow that. And I thought moist was bad.
Gak.
posted by Space Kitty at 1:42 PM on August 27, 2009
Gak.
posted by Space Kitty at 1:42 PM on August 27, 2009
Well, this thread will definitely mess with anyone googling for moist buns or panties.
posted by slimepuppy at 1:50 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by slimepuppy at 1:50 PM on August 27, 2009
On topic: ND¢, totally awesome.
Off topic: Finally! A chance to say that the word "polyamoury" gives me the deep down icky squicks. Bleh! Fah! "Many loves" gah! Pew!
*shudder*
posted by carmen at 1:55 PM on August 27, 2009
Off topic: Finally! A chance to say that the word "polyamoury" gives me the deep down icky squicks. Bleh! Fah! "Many loves" gah! Pew!
*shudder*
posted by carmen at 1:55 PM on August 27, 2009
Get a lawyer. You are in desparate need of ... SOMEONE THAT CAN SPELL DESPERATE.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:23 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:23 PM on August 27, 2009
"There's a band called Moist Fist."
Scanning the thread, I thought this said that there was a band called Moist Feist. And I thought, Really? My my.
posted by klangklangston at 2:28 PM on August 27, 2009
Scanning the thread, I thought this said that there was a band called Moist Feist. And I thought, Really? My my.
posted by klangklangston at 2:28 PM on August 27, 2009
Get a lawyer. You are in desperate need of the sweet, loving, tender caresses that only a gentle, warm lawyer could possibly hope to provide. I'll say it one more time: Get a lawyer for this. Because they're awesome and smell like fresh flowers and the love your own parents never gave you.
posted by GuyZero at 2:29 PM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 2:29 PM on August 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
Dios, to the particular doctor? You say that as if there is only one. As if I have had just the solo bad situation with one guy. No, I've burned my hand on a hot stove more than once. At some point, you have to accept experience, rather than ignore it.
It starts with my mother being given a drug she did not need, while I was in utero. I did the research later on; it was known to be something of a Bad Idea by many doctors, at the time I ended up swimming in this stuff. It's screwed me in so many ways. It's unlikely I can have children, but I won't be doing so just because of the high chance that any offspring will be in bad shape.
Fast forward to thirteen, when it was strongly advocated by three doctors that I receive a total of four operations on my legs and feet, otherwise, I probably wouldn't be able to walk by the time I was thirty. I was headed for either crutches or a wheelchair, they said. That's a scary thing to tell a kid. These doctors told me that 20% failure left knee times 20% failure right knee times 35% failure left foot times 35% failure right foot meant a very small possibility of me being worse off, but it's actually success = (1.0 - 0.2)(1.0 - 0.2)(1.0 - .35)(1.0 - .35). I ran the total probability of them not making things worse in front of them anyway — less than 28%. I'm past thirty and I can still walk. I regularly do so, much further than my peers.
Hop again to eighteen, and all of that fun I mentioned before. That wasn't one doctor, that was, as I mentioned, over half a dozen. Not in a cabal, either, just referrals and hospital specialists. One of them, a psychiatrist, suggested that it was all due to breaking up with my girlfriend, a year past. If all you have is a hammer, I guess everything starts to look like a nail. I made sure to send him a copy of the test results.
Right now, I have a ringing and a pain in my ear. This is because I relented and did not do my research when symptoms came on. I thought, Let's not overthink this, just this once, and just let them do their job. "You don't want to mess around with that," everyone told me, "just go to the urgent care center, since it's the weekend." Since, I have had not one, not two, but a trifecta of doctors misdiagnose the issue. My ear has felt, well, rather icky since January. That's seven months of ear infection, with pain and attendant moistness (there's that word again, "moist," just like in Dead Like Me). It's also more than a little gross.
Doctor number four got it right. One out of four isn't great odds. One out of four does not inspire implicit and unquestioning trust. I'm arguing against implicit and unquestioning trust.
I'm hoping that I get to keep what was once a fabulous sense of hearing in that ear. Of course, even doctor number four is rather cavalier about the tinnitus which has arisen. He sees mostly the elderly; he may have grown a little casual about hearing loss. I'll probably have to hunt around for yet another doctor to address that. But ... why should I have to? Because, ultimately, I care about it, more than he does.
Maybe laypeople aren't great, but damn, I have not had great luck when relinquishing thought and fact-checking and sheer dogged persistence to doctors. It's possible I've just had a lot of unlikely fluke circumstances and I've won a lottery of mistrust. Statistically, it's ... unlikely.
Fortunately, I'm not advocating relying only upon information from laypersons and nothing but. I'm championing the concept that, because membership in either profession does not confer infallibility, one might benefit from retaining the ability to do research, formulate and discount hypotheses, and, in general, think. Walk into the office knowing something. Write down your symptoms. Be informed. Science doesn't work because someone has a degree; it works because of the methodology behind it, not the person who performs the methodology has been in one collegiate gothic brick building or another. Don't just doctor up or lawyer up, arm yourself with knowledge and protect yourself with doubt, because, in five years, to them you're a manilla folder in a filing cabinet offsite*, but you still have to live with their decisions.
If I'm a little angry and suspicious, I have paid for it in pain and disappointment, much over. If you are all for professionalism and nothing from the layfolk, well, there's a professional out there for maybe two-thirds of the questions on AskMe, and we may as well close it up and replace it with "Ask a doctor/lawyer/piano tutor/librarian/historian."
* Okay, probably a zipped archive of scanned images and some XML in a SAN
posted by adipocere at 2:58 PM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
It starts with my mother being given a drug she did not need, while I was in utero. I did the research later on; it was known to be something of a Bad Idea by many doctors, at the time I ended up swimming in this stuff. It's screwed me in so many ways. It's unlikely I can have children, but I won't be doing so just because of the high chance that any offspring will be in bad shape.
Fast forward to thirteen, when it was strongly advocated by three doctors that I receive a total of four operations on my legs and feet, otherwise, I probably wouldn't be able to walk by the time I was thirty. I was headed for either crutches or a wheelchair, they said. That's a scary thing to tell a kid. These doctors told me that 20% failure left knee times 20% failure right knee times 35% failure left foot times 35% failure right foot meant a very small possibility of me being worse off, but it's actually success = (1.0 - 0.2)(1.0 - 0.2)(1.0 - .35)(1.0 - .35). I ran the total probability of them not making things worse in front of them anyway — less than 28%. I'm past thirty and I can still walk. I regularly do so, much further than my peers.
Hop again to eighteen, and all of that fun I mentioned before. That wasn't one doctor, that was, as I mentioned, over half a dozen. Not in a cabal, either, just referrals and hospital specialists. One of them, a psychiatrist, suggested that it was all due to breaking up with my girlfriend, a year past. If all you have is a hammer, I guess everything starts to look like a nail. I made sure to send him a copy of the test results.
Right now, I have a ringing and a pain in my ear. This is because I relented and did not do my research when symptoms came on. I thought, Let's not overthink this, just this once, and just let them do their job. "You don't want to mess around with that," everyone told me, "just go to the urgent care center, since it's the weekend." Since, I have had not one, not two, but a trifecta of doctors misdiagnose the issue. My ear has felt, well, rather icky since January. That's seven months of ear infection, with pain and attendant moistness (there's that word again, "moist," just like in Dead Like Me). It's also more than a little gross.
Doctor number four got it right. One out of four isn't great odds. One out of four does not inspire implicit and unquestioning trust. I'm arguing against implicit and unquestioning trust.
I'm hoping that I get to keep what was once a fabulous sense of hearing in that ear. Of course, even doctor number four is rather cavalier about the tinnitus which has arisen. He sees mostly the elderly; he may have grown a little casual about hearing loss. I'll probably have to hunt around for yet another doctor to address that. But ... why should I have to? Because, ultimately, I care about it, more than he does.
Maybe laypeople aren't great, but damn, I have not had great luck when relinquishing thought and fact-checking and sheer dogged persistence to doctors. It's possible I've just had a lot of unlikely fluke circumstances and I've won a lottery of mistrust. Statistically, it's ... unlikely.
Fortunately, I'm not advocating relying only upon information from laypersons and nothing but. I'm championing the concept that, because membership in either profession does not confer infallibility, one might benefit from retaining the ability to do research, formulate and discount hypotheses, and, in general, think. Walk into the office knowing something. Write down your symptoms. Be informed. Science doesn't work because someone has a degree; it works because of the methodology behind it, not the person who performs the methodology has been in one collegiate gothic brick building or another. Don't just doctor up or lawyer up, arm yourself with knowledge and protect yourself with doubt, because, in five years, to them you're a manilla folder in a filing cabinet offsite*, but you still have to live with their decisions.
If I'm a little angry and suspicious, I have paid for it in pain and disappointment, much over. If you are all for professionalism and nothing from the layfolk, well, there's a professional out there for maybe two-thirds of the questions on AskMe, and we may as well close it up and replace it with "Ask a doctor/lawyer/piano tutor/librarian/historian."
* Okay, probably a zipped archive of scanned images and some XML in a SAN
posted by adipocere at 2:58 PM on August 27, 2009 [7 favorites]
your decade-worth of the single most difficult educational program on earth
This thread is already way off-topic, but oh, you are so wrong about this. American medical students are coddled and waved on through the system. All they need to do is memorize and kiss ass. They binge-drink like it's their freshman year in college. Cheating is pervasive and almost never punished; 'deceleration' options let Mr or Miss Special Snowflake (whose daddy is a doctor) take an extra year because he or she partied too much and failed too many tests. Expulsion? Not hardly! Schools aggressively cover up any incidents to avoid any effect on their reputations.
It is true that doctors must memorize an incredible amount of material, and have to master some procedures. It's no walk in the park. But nor is it a death-defying walk through flames. You can become a doctor without cracking any books other than study guides, and then pass through rotations and internship by applying mental flowcharts and adulating your superiors. Critical thinking is discouraged at all levels. Many doctors are actually smart, well-adjusted people despite all this, who studied deeply and are genuinely interested in medicine, but many are not. It is absolutely correct to be skeptical of doctors and get second opinions when necessary. They are not magic people.
posted by Maximian at 3:00 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is already way off-topic, but oh, you are so wrong about this. American medical students are coddled and waved on through the system. All they need to do is memorize and kiss ass. They binge-drink like it's their freshman year in college. Cheating is pervasive and almost never punished; 'deceleration' options let Mr or Miss Special Snowflake (whose daddy is a doctor) take an extra year because he or she partied too much and failed too many tests. Expulsion? Not hardly! Schools aggressively cover up any incidents to avoid any effect on their reputations.
It is true that doctors must memorize an incredible amount of material, and have to master some procedures. It's no walk in the park. But nor is it a death-defying walk through flames. You can become a doctor without cracking any books other than study guides, and then pass through rotations and internship by applying mental flowcharts and adulating your superiors. Critical thinking is discouraged at all levels. Many doctors are actually smart, well-adjusted people despite all this, who studied deeply and are genuinely interested in medicine, but many are not. It is absolutely correct to be skeptical of doctors and get second opinions when necessary. They are not magic people.
posted by Maximian at 3:00 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
owtytrof: "If we're throwing in random AskMe complaints now, can I nominate ending your FPP with "There is" knowing that the [more inside] link will follow? It's neither cute nor clever, and once you're in the actual question page it looks like the poster doesn't know how to complete their final thought for the FPP. It seems to be increasing in frequency lately, too."
QFT
This was
posted by vapidave at 3:20 PM on August 27, 2009
QFT
This was
posted by vapidave at 3:20 PM on August 27, 2009
The "doctors and lawyers are not infallible" argument is a bit of a straw-man. Nobody is claiming that doctors or lawyers are perfect people who never make errors or always have your best interest at heart. We are saying the suggestion that it is therefore just as reasonable to seek legal or medical advice from computer programmers/software developers/administrative assistants/Kindergarten teachers/(other unrelated careers represented on Metafilter) is a ridiculous alternative.
posted by The Gooch at 3:39 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by The Gooch at 3:39 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Would one of the lawyers here add to the wiki page some info about free first consults? You'll probably do a better job than I would, but it's something that should be there. I know many lawyers, mostly but not exclusively in traffic cases, who offer free first consults in person or over the phone to help the potential client figure out his/her options, including making a decision about whether they actually need to hire a lawyer.
Am I the only person on earth who knows lawyers who do this?
posted by mediareport at 3:40 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Am I the only person on earth who knows lawyers who do this?
posted by mediareport at 3:40 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Fucking hell little e - I can't ever unknow that.
Sorry :(
I think of microbiology as super cool rather than icky, but I forget how skewed my definition of ickiness is. This is not infrequently awkward when I am allowed to socialize with the general population.
*fondly reminisces about working with wound care clinic*
posted by little e at 4:28 PM on August 27, 2009
Sorry :(
I think of microbiology as super cool rather than icky, but I forget how skewed my definition of ickiness is. This is not infrequently awkward when I am allowed to socialize with the general population.
*fondly reminisces about working with wound care clinic*
posted by little e at 4:28 PM on August 27, 2009
Recommend me a sentence using the following words: jam, buns, panties, panache, fighty, and moist.
My partner and I had a fight yesterday over whether jam buns would retain their moisture if they were stored in paper bags and sealed with ropes that are used as tarpan ties (as practised by that great admirer of the Roman legion – Legio IX Hispana, Che Guevara).
posted by tellurian at 6:00 PM on August 27, 2009
My partner and I had a fight yesterday over whether jam buns would retain their moisture if they were stored in paper bags and sealed with ropes that are used as tarpan ties (as practised by that great admirer of the Roman legion – Legio IX Hispana, Che Guevara).
posted by tellurian at 6:00 PM on August 27, 2009
James Bond squeezed his moist buns into the jam panties with fighty panache.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:10 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by Sys Rq at 7:10 PM on August 27, 2009
As someone who has worked with a whole lot of lawyers, it baffles me that some people don't seem to understand why "get a lawyer" is so obvious. The people who can ACTUALLY help you and answer the question, even if they are mefites, are not allowed to help you unless they are your lawyer. The rest of us are just boneheads holding fingers to our noses and calling them moustaches. Don't get plastic surgery in a suburban basement, don't let your children fix your car's engine, and for the love of everything good and decent, don't ask non-lawyers for legal advice. They don't know what they are talking about. They are informed by three seasons of Law and Order and two of Matlock.
posted by SassHat at 8:48 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by SassHat at 8:48 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Interestingly, the phrase "deep down icky squicks" gives me the deep down icky squicks.
Sounds like a colorful, folksy name for some kind of intestinal condition.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2009
Sounds like a colorful, folksy name for some kind of intestinal condition.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:40 PM on August 27, 2009
This thread is already way off-topic, but oh, you are so wrong about this. American medical students are coddled and waved on through the system. All they need to do is memorize and kiss ass. They binge-drink like it's their freshman year in college. Cheating is pervasive and almost never punished; 'deceleration' options let Mr or Miss Special Snowflake (whose daddy is a doctor) take an extra year because he or she partied too much and failed too many tests. Expulsion? Not hardly! Schools aggressively cover up any incidents to avoid any effect on their reputations.
cool fictional anecdotes bro. reminds me of astronauts. "wow they must work really hard to be there" yeah think twice. NASA discourages any free thinking astronauts and most of them couldnt even find uranus on a map (lol). the Americna space program coddles and lollygags and harberdashes. the average person should be skeptical of any so called "astronauts" because theyre stupid and bad. audit the federal reserve
posted by Damn That Television at 10:05 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
cool fictional anecdotes bro. reminds me of astronauts. "wow they must work really hard to be there" yeah think twice. NASA discourages any free thinking astronauts and most of them couldnt even find uranus on a map (lol). the Americna space program coddles and lollygags and harberdashes. the average person should be skeptical of any so called "astronauts" because theyre stupid and bad. audit the federal reserve
posted by Damn That Television at 10:05 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Thanks, nineRED.
If this is where we complain about disturbing MeFi trends, I hate "this". You know, where someone agrees with something so they quote the whole thing with "this" at the end.
Having set that up... Thanks ND¢, that's great work and very quick. Any chance you could set it up for information from other countries to be slotted in there?
posted by GeckoDundee at 10:35 PM on August 27, 2009
If this is where we complain about disturbing MeFi trends, I hate "this". You know, where someone agrees with something so they quote the whole thing with "this" at the end.
Having set that up... Thanks ND¢, that's great work and very quick. Any chance you could set it up for information from other countries to be slotted in there?
posted by GeckoDundee at 10:35 PM on August 27, 2009
If this is where we complain about disturbing MeFi trends, I hate "this". You know, where someone agrees with something so they quote the whole thing with "this" at the end.
QFT
posted by Sys Rq at 10:42 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
QFT
posted by Sys Rq at 10:42 PM on August 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
What Sys Rq said.
posted by GeckoDundee at 11:12 PM on August 27, 2009
posted by GeckoDundee at 11:12 PM on August 27, 2009
Get a lawyer's moist panties for this meme. You are in desparate need of a lawyer's moist panties for this meme. I'll say it one more time: Get a lawyer's moist panties for this meme.
posted by davejay at 12:24 AM on August 28, 2009
posted by davejay at 12:24 AM on August 28, 2009
Interestingly, the phrase "deep down icky squicks" gives me the deep down icky squicks.
Sounds like a colorful, folksy name for some kind of intestinal condition.
EXACTLY!!! That's why I chose it. To try to convey grossness to someone who doesn't find the word itself gross.
posted by carmen at 5:58 AM on August 28, 2009
Sounds like a colorful, folksy name for some kind of intestinal condition.
EXACTLY!!! That's why I chose it. To try to convey grossness to someone who doesn't find the word itself gross.
posted by carmen at 5:58 AM on August 28, 2009
(lol)
This looks like an emoticon for either an angel, or a dual-wielding grim reaper. Take away the parenthesis and lol looks like a dude with his hands in the air like he just don't care.
posted by owtytrof at 8:49 AM on August 28, 2009
This looks like an emoticon for either an angel, or a dual-wielding grim reaper. Take away the parenthesis and lol looks like a dude with his hands in the air like he just don't care.
posted by owtytrof at 8:49 AM on August 28, 2009
"Get expert legal advice" is a better answer than "Get a lawyer." Unless it's pro bono, the legal business is set up to aim for the point where billing and prevailing on a case are maximized. This does not always mean a win for the client on their terms (unless money is not a concern.) Example: The parent who spends every last dollar on every last recommended filing, process, delay, teleconference, motion, letter, meeting etc... to achieve joint legal custody of their child, thinking it means something much more than it actually does. Joint legal custody, as it turns out, is really hard, time consuming, inconvenient, and, expensive to enforce, violations are difficult to prove, and there aren't any consequences attack. Most lawyers will not help a client avoid throwing money away on winning what they think they want. Legalfilter mefites should benefit from outside perspectives on how to use a lawyer so they're not fleeced by the business of paid representation.
For serious medical questions, "See a doctor" isn't a great response either because it's so incomplete. Yes, see a doctor, see a few doctors, go to XX website for the latest publications in the XX disease category. Research your symptoms, find online forums discussing similar symptoms, gather as much information as you can. I've gotten a lot of bad recommendations from doctors as well and, as a child, when I questioned I was also told "they're the experts" and expected to settle with that even though procedures and medications were wrong and making me sicker. At 39 and a longish list of doctors seen- I can count two who gave consistently sound advice, and, more importantly, acknowledged when they were mistaken and took corrective action.
I don't think adipocere and I are a minority.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:36 PM on August 28, 2009
For serious medical questions, "See a doctor" isn't a great response either because it's so incomplete. Yes, see a doctor, see a few doctors, go to XX website for the latest publications in the XX disease category. Research your symptoms, find online forums discussing similar symptoms, gather as much information as you can. I've gotten a lot of bad recommendations from doctors as well and, as a child, when I questioned I was also told "they're the experts" and expected to settle with that even though procedures and medications were wrong and making me sicker. At 39 and a longish list of doctors seen- I can count two who gave consistently sound advice, and, more importantly, acknowledged when they were mistaken and took corrective action.
I don't think adipocere and I are a minority.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:36 PM on August 28, 2009
Ack- correction above re: joint legal custody violations: There aren't any consequences attached. Not, There aren't any consequences, ATTACK!"
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on August 28, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:39 PM on August 28, 2009
Get unbold. I'm in desperate need of unbolding now. This. This I need. Unbolding.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:41 PM on August 28, 2009
I've fixed your runaway tag, hbfc, if I may be so </b>.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:42 PM on August 28, 2009
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:42 PM on August 28, 2009
@cortex- thanks. Thanks a lot. I am thanking you now.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:50 PM on August 28, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 2:50 PM on August 28, 2009
Thanks, NDcent(can't find the right glyph on the iPhone) you saved
me from posting the obvious Ask Mefi question.
I've never needed a lawyer, so all this is just as arcane to me.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 7:39 AM on August 29, 2009
me from posting the obvious Ask Mefi question.
I've never needed a lawyer, so all this is just as arcane to me.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 7:39 AM on August 29, 2009
Everyone should just refer to all undergarments as "draws"
They're drawers, dammit! The 'er' is silent. As in 'a chest of drawers'.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2009
They're drawers, dammit! The 'er' is silent. As in 'a chest of drawers'.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2009
No, chests don't go into drawers.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:02 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
They're drawers, dammit! The 'er' is silent. As in 'a chest of drawers'.
What? No. You are wrong. "Drawers" rhymes with "doors."
Learn to speak English, England.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2009
What? No. You are wrong. "Drawers" rhymes with "doors."
Learn to speak English, England.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:10 PM on August 29, 2009
To be fair, in England they call them "ceilings and floors".
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:19 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:19 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I thought that was just what they called their mothers.
Hey-o!
posted by Sys Rq at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hey-o!
posted by Sys Rq at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by Diagonalize at 1:22 AM on August 27, 2009