Not Charity - Change for the better September 17, 2009 9:36 AM Subscribe
Metafilter Team members on Kiva.org committed their 5,000th dollar this week to great projects all over the world. Commit to the common good and get paid back with compassion!
Uh oh, sounds like Burhanistan may have been hired by GiveWell.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:03 AM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by eyeballkid at 10:03 AM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
Flog it and move on dot org.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:04 AM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:04 AM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
> Kiva is great and all, but there are tons of worthwhile charities out there. I don't know why you're always flogging this one.
Is it any skin off your ass? If you prefer another charity, feel free to flog it. Kiva is great, and it's good that it's getting the publicity.
posted by languagehat at 10:32 AM on September 17, 2009
Is it any skin off your ass? If you prefer another charity, feel free to flog it. Kiva is great, and it's good that it's getting the publicity.
posted by languagehat at 10:32 AM on September 17, 2009
(Metatalk, I mean. So much chat on here lately. People want to be free to talk about anything.)
posted by smackfu at 10:35 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by smackfu at 10:35 AM on September 17, 2009
Oh, THAT kind of flogging! I was a bit surprised on several levels.
If callouts aren't the internet equivalent of cat o' nine tails, what are they?
What do you do with a drunken MeFite, what do you do with a drunken MeFite, what do you do with a drunken MeFite early in the morning?
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:44 AM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
If callouts aren't the internet equivalent of cat o' nine tails, what are they?
What do you do with a drunken MeFite, what do you do with a drunken MeFite, what do you do with a drunken MeFite early in the morning?
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:44 AM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Someone's actually bitching about people plugging a worthwhile charity. Welcome to metatalk, folks.
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:16 AM on September 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:16 AM on September 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
I can't wrap my brain around Kiva and can never figure it out from their website, could you explain it? I give you $100 as a loan, what happens to it? Do I get it back? With interest? If not, does the debtor pay interest back to someone?
posted by IanMorr at 11:18 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by IanMorr at 11:18 AM on September 17, 2009
You get it back, with a tiny bit of interest, and you can then invest it with someone else.
The reason it makes sense to flog kiva here is that there is a metafilter team. Do other charities have mefi teams?
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:24 AM on September 17, 2009
The reason it makes sense to flog kiva here is that there is a metafilter team. Do other charities have mefi teams?
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:24 AM on September 17, 2009
I can't wrap my brain around Kiva and can never figure it out from their website, could you explain it? I give you $100 as a loan, what happens to it? Do I get it back? With interest? If not, does the debtor pay interest back to someone?
I work in fund raising and I have to tell people all the time that Kiva is not charity: you won't get a tax deduction. Instead it is a real loan to a real entrepreneur or group that needs support to get started or expand. My first loan of $50 began to get paid back six weeks after I made it. Most people have seen similar results. Give it a try. I think you will enjoy it.
posted by parmanparman at 11:25 AM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I work in fund raising and I have to tell people all the time that Kiva is not charity: you won't get a tax deduction. Instead it is a real loan to a real entrepreneur or group that needs support to get started or expand. My first loan of $50 began to get paid back six weeks after I made it. Most people have seen similar results. Give it a try. I think you will enjoy it.
posted by parmanparman at 11:25 AM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Of $200, I have been repaid/refunded over $75, which I then used to make 3 more $25 loans.
I have severely limited funds available for charitable purposes. It's really cool to be able to use and reuse the same pool of money like that.
posted by zennie at 11:46 AM on September 17, 2009
I have severely limited funds available for charitable purposes. It's really cool to be able to use and reuse the same pool of money like that.
posted by zennie at 11:46 AM on September 17, 2009
My Kiva loan hasn't been paid back yet. I'm gonna get my baseball bat and go after that struggling Afghan woman trying to raise her kids and run a fabric shop in a war-torn mess of a country. WHERE'S MY MONEY? YOU THINK YOU CAN PLAY ME? WHERE'S MY GODDAMN MONEY?!?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:04 PM on September 17, 2009 [13 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:04 PM on September 17, 2009 [13 favorites]
I don't know why you're always flogging this one.
The Kiva Metafilter team began with a suggestion by parmanparman, for celebrating our 10th anniversary. During that discussion, mathowie made the counter-proposal of a Kiva team. Others agreed that this was a good idea, and so it began. Of the 38,000+ Metafilter members, 90 are now part of our team.
I appreciate parmanparman's efforts, and think our Kiva team reflects the general Metafilter spirit (of giving, generous, thoughtful, knowledgeable people) well. For those of us who believe Kiva is a good idea, it gives us a chance to actually put our money where our mouth is, so to speak.
posted by Houstonian at 12:16 PM on September 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
The Kiva Metafilter team began with a suggestion by parmanparman, for celebrating our 10th anniversary. During that discussion, mathowie made the counter-proposal of a Kiva team. Others agreed that this was a good idea, and so it began. Of the 38,000+ Metafilter members, 90 are now part of our team.
I appreciate parmanparman's efforts, and think our Kiva team reflects the general Metafilter spirit (of giving, generous, thoughtful, knowledgeable people) well. For those of us who believe Kiva is a good idea, it gives us a chance to actually put our money where our mouth is, so to speak.
posted by Houstonian at 12:16 PM on September 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
I've got like $300 or so in the Kiva system, going out as loans, coming back in and going back out. For all intents and purposes I consider it a gift, but it is a loan. Haven't had one fail yet.
Plus if I run out of firetrucks & cocaine I can always pull the money out.
but I've got a large stash of firetrucks.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Plus if I run out of firetrucks & cocaine I can always pull the money out.
but I've got a large stash of firetrucks.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Think_Long: "IanMorr: Kiva Lending Process"
Whoa, what the hell is up with those interest rates? I love the idea of Kiva, but 20%+ on a loan seems nuts.
posted by boo_radley at 12:33 PM on September 17, 2009
Whoa, what the hell is up with those interest rates? I love the idea of Kiva, but 20%+ on a loan seems nuts.
posted by boo_radley at 12:33 PM on September 17, 2009
nuts until you compare it to the rest of the third world rates I suppose.
posted by Think_Long at 12:42 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by Think_Long at 12:42 PM on September 17, 2009
Typically the Kiva-facilitated loan interest rate is on par with or better than the local rates that borrowers can get.
posted by zennie at 12:44 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by zennie at 12:44 PM on September 17, 2009
The Wikipedia link says "Kiva lenders do not receive any interest". CunningLinguist says you get a tiny bit. Which is it?
(I'm not looking to make money off Bolivian goat herds, I've just always seen conflicting info on this)
posted by IanMorr at 12:54 PM on September 17, 2009
(I'm not looking to make money off Bolivian goat herds, I've just always seen conflicting info on this)
posted by IanMorr at 12:54 PM on September 17, 2009
I had been pondering Kiva for awhile, but didn't realize there was a MeFi group. I am so in.
posted by somanyamys at 12:57 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by somanyamys at 12:57 PM on September 17, 2009
I've never received any interest, and that would just drive up the (already unfortunately high) rates to the borrowers.
CunningLinguist is mistaken.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2009
CunningLinguist is mistaken.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:59 PM on September 17, 2009
I'm not looking to make money off Bolivian goat herds
With the coming collapse, developing world subsistence farming will be the key market, man. Get in on the ground floor!
posted by Abiezer at 1:01 PM on September 17, 2009
With the coming collapse, developing world subsistence farming will be the key market, man. Get in on the ground floor!
posted by Abiezer at 1:01 PM on September 17, 2009
CunningLinguist is mistaken.
Indeed she is. Apologies.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2009
Indeed she is. Apologies.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2009
I just joined, but I am confused about how being in the team works. Do we still lend individually? What is the purpose of the team?
posted by dhalgren at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by dhalgren at 1:22 PM on September 17, 2009
Yeah, you choose who to lend to. But then we can brag about having collectively lent a total of $5,250 to 186 people/groups.
My other team is the atheists. Their stated mission is to illustrate you don't need to be religious to want to help your fellow man.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:28 PM on September 17, 2009
My other team is the atheists. Their stated mission is to illustrate you don't need to be religious to want to help your fellow man.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:28 PM on September 17, 2009
Metafilter: My other team is the atheists.
posted by shazzam at 1:43 PM on September 17, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by shazzam at 1:43 PM on September 17, 2009 [9 favorites]
I missed out on that 'promotion' you ran a few months back but I am in this time around! Hooray!
posted by Monster_Zero at 1:58 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by Monster_Zero at 1:58 PM on September 17, 2009
Cool! I can't believe I have never heard of Kiva before now. I just signed up, joined Team MeFi, and made a couple loans. Thanks for (re)posting this!
posted by threetoed at 2:06 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by threetoed at 2:06 PM on September 17, 2009
What bitteroldpunk is failing to mention if that he only lent out $2. He wants his two dollars!
So, how do I go about applying for a loan?
posted by cjorgensen at 2:25 PM on September 17, 2009
So, how do I go about applying for a loan?
posted by cjorgensen at 2:25 PM on September 17, 2009
Thanks for posting this. I've been hearing about Kiva for some time, but this post finally got me signed up. I joined the metafilter team and made a few loans. Go team!
posted by meta87 at 2:26 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by meta87 at 2:26 PM on September 17, 2009
Metafilter: Apologies for the knee-jerk and useless snipe.
posted by mediareport at 3:20 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by mediareport at 3:20 PM on September 17, 2009
Thanks for the reminder, I just made my loan today.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:32 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:32 PM on September 17, 2009
$800 more since this morning. That's neat.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:33 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:33 PM on September 17, 2009
Thanks for posting this, I finally joined and made some loans.
posted by burnmp3s at 3:43 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by burnmp3s at 3:43 PM on September 17, 2009
I just signed up and loaned out the $100 I had previously offered to help send jessamyn to Europe. You can still have it, jessamyn, but we'll need to go break some legs in South America, first.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:01 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:01 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
25 new teammates and 34 new loans.
Not too shabby, MeFi.
posted by zennie at 5:37 PM on September 17, 2009
Not too shabby, MeFi.
posted by zennie at 5:37 PM on September 17, 2009
I've got like $300 or so in the Kiva system, going out as loans, coming back in and going back out. For all intents and purposes I consider it a gift, but it is a loan. Haven't had one fail yet.
This is how I view it as well. I know there is a small chance that someone may default, but I've yet to experience it in the year-plus that I've been cycling the same money through different loans.
posted by vespertine at 6:08 PM on September 17, 2009
This is how I view it as well. I know there is a small chance that someone may default, but I've yet to experience it in the year-plus that I've been cycling the same money through different loans.
posted by vespertine at 6:08 PM on September 17, 2009
Thanks for the reminder, I just made my loan today.
posted by jessamyn
$800 more since this morning. That's neat.
posted by jessamyn
That's a lot for you to lend!
Seriously, what is the typical amount people throw in? I'm going to read the site, see how it works a bit more, but I've had my 3 charities picked out for a decade. I can see adding some, but too much, and something else would have to go.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:31 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by jessamyn
$800 more since this morning. That's neat.
posted by jessamyn
That's a lot for you to lend!
Seriously, what is the typical amount people throw in? I'm going to read the site, see how it works a bit more, but I've had my 3 charities picked out for a decade. I can see adding some, but too much, and something else would have to go.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:31 PM on September 17, 2009
Cjorgensen: sorry, I mean to be in touch with you re: your interest in public radio but have been derailed. Let's talk soon.
posted by parmanparman at 6:41 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 6:41 PM on September 17, 2009
Look, there's a MeFi Kiva team. I get it. Please, please stop telling me about it. Put it as your website link or something. Do Project updates. While I respect the right of the mods to do as they see fit, I do not see how this is a discussion about MetaFilter, nor do I think MetaTalk is an appropriate place to stump for your favourite charitable organisation.
Alternatively, perhaps this could become MeFi's Official Member Charity and it could be linked in the footer or get its own tab and a nice sidebar link for significant achievements. I don't object to the thing (and indeed, it's nice y'all are doing that) I just object to this venue for its regular promotion.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:16 PM on September 17, 2009
Alternatively, perhaps this could become MeFi's Official Member Charity and it could be linked in the footer or get its own tab and a nice sidebar link for significant achievements. I don't object to the thing (and indeed, it's nice y'all are doing that) I just object to this venue for its regular promotion.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:16 PM on September 17, 2009
If MetaTalk is the right place to discuss in-person meetups, surely it's also the right place to discuss online meetups, such as Kiva. I don't much care for the "I don't like it" objection, principled though it may be.
Anyway, last time Kiva was mentioned I joined, and this time I actually went and made some loans.
posted by parudox at 7:47 PM on September 17, 2009
Anyway, last time Kiva was mentioned I joined, and this time I actually went and made some loans.
posted by parudox at 7:47 PM on September 17, 2009
Since there were several of us (myself included) who didn't realize there was a MeFi Kiva team until we saw this, I'd argue there's some value to the occasional MeTa post. I don't see how it's any different than asking MeFites to join the Metafilter team on Runner+ or whatever. This time, instead of running, the team activity is loaning money to people in need.
And hey, maybe the kiva team should get a sidebar link, but I also doubt anyone could seriously begrudge the runners a post on having collectively run x thousand miles and oh-by-the-way join our group if you want to run with us! If you already know you don't want to participate in the team activity in question, it's easy enough to skip those posts. Unless you've installed that sinister and mysterious Greasemonkey script that forces you to read every. single. MeTa, in which case I shudder to think about how many far-flung meetup threads you've had to suffer through that were not Relevant to Your Interests. Egad.
posted by somanyamys at 7:58 PM on September 17, 2009
And hey, maybe the kiva team should get a sidebar link, but I also doubt anyone could seriously begrudge the runners a post on having collectively run x thousand miles and oh-by-the-way join our group if you want to run with us! If you already know you don't want to participate in the team activity in question, it's easy enough to skip those posts. Unless you've installed that sinister and mysterious Greasemonkey script that forces you to read every. single. MeTa, in which case I shudder to think about how many far-flung meetup threads you've had to suffer through that were not Relevant to Your Interests. Egad.
posted by somanyamys at 7:58 PM on September 17, 2009
Seriously, what is the typical amount people throw in?
The default (and I think minimum) amount to fund a given loan is $25. The borrowers then pay it back in installments over time like a normal loan. Most of the loans get funded within a few days, and I don't think it makes much of a difference to Kiva if they get $25 from ten people or $250 from one person so really you can fund whatever amount you want to however many loans you want. Once you pick who to lend to, the checkout is just a standard PayPal transaction.
I don't object to the thing (and indeed, it's nice y'all are doing that) I just object to this venue for its regular promotion.
I understand where you're coming from, but is it really that bad? On the positive side, we've raised $6,000+ as a group (over $1,500 today), and on the negative side people who aren't interested had to look at three MetaTalk posts. That's the same number of MetaTalk posts that have been about playing the game Diplomacy over email.
I know MetaTalk isn't a free-for-all where anyone can post about whatever they want. But I think one of the best things about this site is that MetaTalk is the place where we can all get together and do things like swap music, or write collaborative novels, or meet up in real life. Those types of things are what makes this more of a real community and not just a collection of people who post snarky comments about things on the Internet. If talking about getting together to do things is okay to post about here, then I think getting together to do something that actually helps people is one of the things that is worth talking about regularly.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:01 PM on September 17, 2009
The default (and I think minimum) amount to fund a given loan is $25. The borrowers then pay it back in installments over time like a normal loan. Most of the loans get funded within a few days, and I don't think it makes much of a difference to Kiva if they get $25 from ten people or $250 from one person so really you can fund whatever amount you want to however many loans you want. Once you pick who to lend to, the checkout is just a standard PayPal transaction.
I don't object to the thing (and indeed, it's nice y'all are doing that) I just object to this venue for its regular promotion.
I understand where you're coming from, but is it really that bad? On the positive side, we've raised $6,000+ as a group (over $1,500 today), and on the negative side people who aren't interested had to look at three MetaTalk posts. That's the same number of MetaTalk posts that have been about playing the game Diplomacy over email.
I know MetaTalk isn't a free-for-all where anyone can post about whatever they want. But I think one of the best things about this site is that MetaTalk is the place where we can all get together and do things like swap music, or write collaborative novels, or meet up in real life. Those types of things are what makes this more of a real community and not just a collection of people who post snarky comments about things on the Internet. If talking about getting together to do things is okay to post about here, then I think getting together to do something that actually helps people is one of the things that is worth talking about regularly.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:01 PM on September 17, 2009
Shut up, DarlingBri.
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 8:04 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 8:04 PM on September 17, 2009
And Kiva has gotten 1/100th the attention that favorites have.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:36 PM on September 17, 2009
posted by cjorgensen at 8:36 PM on September 17, 2009
MetaFilter: not just a collection of people who post snarky comments about things on the Internet
Oh, wait...
posted by netbros at 9:07 PM on September 17, 2009
Oh, wait...
posted by netbros at 9:07 PM on September 17, 2009
I just object to this venue for its regular promotion.
Yeah, I think there have been two, maybe three, posts about this in the last year. Hardly regular.
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:14 PM on September 17, 2009
Yeah, I think there have been two, maybe three, posts about this in the last year. Hardly regular.
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:14 PM on September 17, 2009
Ugh, the more I think about your comment the more I hate it.
Please, please stop telling me about it.
No one is telling YOU about it - it's made available via a thread on MeTa. Since you can tell the subject of the thread by looking at it, it's easily ignored.
While I respect the right of the mods to do as they see fit, blah blah bullshit bullshit
So basically, you came in here to tell everyone involved in Kiva and the Meta Kiva team to shut up - including 2/3 of the mods at least (Jess + Matt) - your sense of entitlement is disgusting. It's too bad we can't replace you with a Turkish goat farmer, maybe they'd have something worthwhile to contribute.
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 9:29 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please, please stop telling me about it.
No one is telling YOU about it - it's made available via a thread on MeTa. Since you can tell the subject of the thread by looking at it, it's easily ignored.
While I respect the right of the mods to do as they see fit, blah blah bullshit bullshit
So basically, you came in here to tell everyone involved in Kiva and the Meta Kiva team to shut up - including 2/3 of the mods at least (Jess + Matt) - your sense of entitlement is disgusting. It's too bad we can't replace you with a Turkish goat farmer, maybe they'd have something worthwhile to contribute.
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 9:29 PM on September 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
How to Survive MetaFilter:
1/ Ignore the people who will, for the sake of performance art, be obnoxious to you. (Congrats, you're getting practice on that one already.)
Ahem.
posted by iamabot at 9:48 PM on September 17, 2009
1/ Ignore the people who will, for the sake of performance art, be obnoxious to you. (Congrats, you're getting practice on that one already.)
Ahem.
posted by iamabot at 9:48 PM on September 17, 2009
Delighted to discover the Kiva team, and I'm joining*.
*example of why this thread is important and valid.
posted by alight at 10:15 PM on September 17, 2009
*example of why this thread is important and valid.
posted by alight at 10:15 PM on September 17, 2009
I've had three loans default, I think --- two in the Kenyan economic collapse/political turmoil and another it turned out the operator in Dominica wasmassively corrupt. But I keep kicking money back in and if I needed to I guess I could dribble it back out as it becomes available. And those three are a small percentage, and some of them were partially paid back. So I am maybe out of pocket by 30 bucks or something manageable.
Also, yeah, DarlingBri, you just made yourself look like a jackass. Maybe go whine in the favorites thread or on fark or something?
posted by Rumple at 11:12 PM on September 17, 2009
Also, yeah, DarlingBri, you just made yourself look like a jackass. Maybe go whine in the favorites thread or on fark or something?
posted by Rumple at 11:12 PM on September 17, 2009
While I don't agree with what you said, DarlingBri, I also don't think telling you to shut up is appropriate. We've lost good contributors over that kind of behavior before.
Anyway, I've made a loan to a woman starting a clothing shop here in Kenya, where I live now, so maybe at some point I'll finally get a MetaFilter tee-shirt and then finally get out to Kisumu to see her shop and get us a picture of this MeFi Kiva effort coming full loop.
This whole effort really makes me appreciate MeFi and the good people who run it and contribute to it. Promoting third world development is a cause particularly close to my heart so I just want to thank everyone who's involved with this, especially you parmanparman. Everybody keep up the good work.
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:39 PM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I've made a loan to a woman starting a clothing shop here in Kenya, where I live now, so maybe at some point I'll finally get a MetaFilter tee-shirt and then finally get out to Kisumu to see her shop and get us a picture of this MeFi Kiva effort coming full loop.
This whole effort really makes me appreciate MeFi and the good people who run it and contribute to it. Promoting third world development is a cause particularly close to my heart so I just want to thank everyone who's involved with this, especially you parmanparman. Everybody keep up the good work.
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:39 PM on September 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I just joined, thanks for the post, otherwise I would have forgotten about this great effort...again.
posted by maxwelton at 12:00 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by maxwelton at 12:00 AM on September 18, 2009
Metafilter: loves as it feels
posted by parmanparman at 12:12 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 12:12 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by parmanparman to MetaFilter-related
I do not see how this is a discussion about MetaFilter.
Look, there's a MeFi Kiva team. I get it.
Does not compute.
posted by zennie at 4:37 AM on September 18, 2009
I do not see how this is a discussion about MetaFilter.
Look, there's a MeFi Kiva team. I get it.
Does not compute.
posted by zennie at 4:37 AM on September 18, 2009
R_Nebblesworth: So basically, you came in here to tell everyone involved in Kiva and the Meta Kiva team to shut up - including 2/3 of the mods at least (Jess + Matt) - your sense of entitlement is disgusting. It's too bad we can't replace you with a Turkish goat farmer, maybe they'd have something worthwhile to contribute.
Excuse me, that is inaccurate. I do not think suggesting that making Kiva MeFi's official charity and perhaps adding an entire tab (Music, Jobs, Charity, etc.) is telling people to shut up. You're acting as though I've said THERE WILL BE NO MEFI CHARITABLE GIVING AND YOU ARE ALL EVIL. That is not the same as "I don't think the updates belong in MetaTalk."
This has nothing to do with entitlement (?) and more to do with category organisation. And seriously, you feel the need to get personally offensive about this because I have an issue with where a post is placed? You think your posts to me are an OK way to treat someone else?
posted by DarlingBri at 6:04 AM on September 18, 2009
Excuse me, that is inaccurate. I do not think suggesting that making Kiva MeFi's official charity and perhaps adding an entire tab (Music, Jobs, Charity, etc.) is telling people to shut up. You're acting as though I've said THERE WILL BE NO MEFI CHARITABLE GIVING AND YOU ARE ALL EVIL. That is not the same as "I don't think the updates belong in MetaTalk."
This has nothing to do with entitlement (?) and more to do with category organisation. And seriously, you feel the need to get personally offensive about this because I have an issue with where a post is placed? You think your posts to me are an OK way to treat someone else?
posted by DarlingBri at 6:04 AM on September 18, 2009
My only concern is that this is clearly parmanparman's "thing", and I worry there will be some of the same issues that make self-links bad. The 2nd Kiva Meta post was really awful, for instance, and the mods closed it.
posted by smackfu at 6:21 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by smackfu at 6:21 AM on September 18, 2009
As parmanparman says turn around can be pretty quick, the loan is then recredited to your account and you get to pick another entrepreneur to invest in, I put in $50 duing the MeFI 10th anniversary (once Kiva had the mathowie stamp of approval naturally) and have had $30+ back so far and have thus been able to redirect $25 to a group in Cambodia. Its quite rewarding, my plan is to throw in annually and build up the amount I have on loan.
To answer another question, my understanding is you don't get interest recredited to your account, just your capital.
posted by biffa at 6:30 AM on September 18, 2009
To answer another question, my understanding is you don't get interest recredited to your account, just your capital.
posted by biffa at 6:30 AM on September 18, 2009
DarlingBri, please consider that words along the lines of, "please stop telling me about it," do look very much like, "please stop talking about it." You may have something reasonable to say about site organization. However, dropping a comment like that in the middle of all the yay-MeFi and warm fuzzies probably wasn't the best of timing, especially after Burhanistan's opening snipe had been resolved.
: this is clearly parmanparman's "thing"
Well, parmanparman, mathowie, and 108 (and counting) other Mefites' "thing," which Matt has already demonstrated won't get out of control, per your example.
posted by zennie at 6:31 AM on September 18, 2009
: this is clearly parmanparman's "thing"
Well, parmanparman, mathowie, and 108 (and counting) other Mefites' "thing," which Matt has already demonstrated won't get out of control, per your example.
posted by zennie at 6:31 AM on September 18, 2009
Personally, I would like to see the Kiva effort (and more officially recognized if not necessarily sanctioned MeFi activities) on the MeTa sidebar.
posted by mrmojoflying at 6:43 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by mrmojoflying at 6:43 AM on September 18, 2009
zennie said what I was going to say a lot more betterly, so I'll just say that allkindsoftime is absolutely right that the "shut up" approach is not appropriate. I didn't know loiseau personally, but I still miss her contributions to the site.
posted by somanyamys at 6:46 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by somanyamys at 6:46 AM on September 18, 2009
Thanks for the post. I had missed this previously. Joined yesterday and made 2 loans. Another of the many reasons I love being part of this community. And yeah, I think Kiva in the sidebar would be awesome.
posted by white_devil at 7:30 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by white_devil at 7:30 AM on September 18, 2009
Sweet, Metafilter made it onto the list of top teams for this Ugandan matooke syndicate.
posted by exogenous at 8:03 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by exogenous at 8:03 AM on September 18, 2009
I put it on the sidebar.
And yeah the "shut up" stuff isn't cool, even in response to a somewhat churlish comment.
I do not see how this is a discussion about MetaFilter
We're going to have to firmly disagree here. This is as MeFi-related as the Diplomacy game, meetups, how the runners are doing, or "I saw mathowie on teevee" I assume updates like this will be few and far between.
parmanparman, the occasional update here is cool but regular status updates are probably less cool. Three updates ever, though, is firmly in the "okay" territory.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2009
And yeah the "shut up" stuff isn't cool, even in response to a somewhat churlish comment.
I do not see how this is a discussion about MetaFilter
We're going to have to firmly disagree here. This is as MeFi-related as the Diplomacy game, meetups, how the runners are doing, or "I saw mathowie on teevee" I assume updates like this will be few and far between.
parmanparman, the occasional update here is cool but regular status updates are probably less cool. Three updates ever, though, is firmly in the "okay" territory.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2009
smackfu is a grumpy and negative fellow. I picture him being about 79 years old with one hand on the small of his back, fuelled by the resdiual bitterness of the playground, with never a positive thing to say about anything or anyone, ever. And yet, oddly unsilent for one who hates the world.
posted by Rumple at 9:03 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by Rumple at 9:03 AM on September 18, 2009
Thanks -- I had clean forgotten for a while to check in on Mrs. Sokhoen Toem's group to see how they were doing. They're already paying back! You go, Mrs. Sokhoen Toem et al!
I fucking love Kiva, but I can't go there too often because every time I do, I want to loan everybody $25, which unfortunately would quickly break the bank chez Blank.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:21 AM on September 18, 2009
I fucking love Kiva, but I can't go there too often because every time I do, I want to loan everybody $25, which unfortunately would quickly break the bank chez Blank.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:21 AM on September 18, 2009
smackfu is a grumpy and negative fellow
Undeniable. I'm much more friendly in real life though.
posted by smackfu at 9:37 AM on September 18, 2009
Undeniable. I'm much more friendly in real life though.
posted by smackfu at 9:37 AM on September 18, 2009
smackfu is a lovely fellow. And I often agree with his "grumpy, negative" views.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:44 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:44 AM on September 18, 2009
He is therefore a lovely, grumpy and negative fellow. I would like to meet him in real life. But subscribe to his newsletter? Not so much.
posted by Rumple at 9:48 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by Rumple at 9:48 AM on September 18, 2009
My other team is the atheists. Their stated mission is to illustrate you don't need to be religious to want to help your fellow man.
This is my other team too, but I joined thinking that the purpose was to make the non-atheists look stingy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:55 AM on September 18, 2009
This is my other team too, but I joined thinking that the purpose was to make the non-atheists look stingy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:55 AM on September 18, 2009
My other team is a Ferrari.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 AM on September 18, 2009
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:58 AM on September 18, 2009
jessamynAdmin: We're going to have to firmly disagree here.
That's completely fine. I am not inclined to throw a seething fit because we see something differently. You're the mod, it's your call, and that's just how that should work.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:42 AM on September 18, 2009
That's completely fine. I am not inclined to throw a seething fit because we see something differently. You're the mod, it's your call, and that's just how that should work.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:42 AM on September 18, 2009
I put $50 into Kiva literally years ago, and it's been paid back in full for every loan I've made, so I've relent that same 50 8 or 9 times already.
It used to be that Kiva only gave you access to the repaid money once the whole loan was repaid by the person you loaned to, but now you get a portion back as they make payments, which means I can relend the money even more often. Every time $25 is back in my account, I lend it out again, which is cool, because I get to feel noble and charitable four or five times a year, all on the basis of $50 I spent so long ago that I don't even remember how long ago it was.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:34 AM on September 18, 2009
It used to be that Kiva only gave you access to the repaid money once the whole loan was repaid by the person you loaned to, but now you get a portion back as they make payments, which means I can relend the money even more often. Every time $25 is back in my account, I lend it out again, which is cool, because I get to feel noble and charitable four or five times a year, all on the basis of $50 I spent so long ago that I don't even remember how long ago it was.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:34 AM on September 18, 2009
I would hate it if it became my 'thing'. It wasn't even my idea!
posted by parmanparman at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2009
Can I fund Kiva without using paypal? I can't believe even _believe_ how obnoxious retrieving a lost paypal password is. Five minutes, two security questions, an email confirmation, my address, and two credit cards in, I give up.
posted by blenderfish at 3:16 PM on September 18, 2009
posted by blenderfish at 3:16 PM on September 18, 2009
blenderfish, you can send me $50 in the mail and I'll give it to Kiva for you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:51 PM on September 18, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:51 PM on September 18, 2009
Thanks, but I powered through. =)
I wish there was a 'do whatever my team is doing' button, though.
As it is, there's no easy way to navigate back to your team once you've gone into a loan view; you have to judiciously use new tabs.
posted by blenderfish at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2009
I wish there was a 'do whatever my team is doing' button, though.
As it is, there's no easy way to navigate back to your team once you've gone into a loan view; you have to judiciously use new tabs.
posted by blenderfish at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2009
I like to complain about web usability a lot, I guess, is my main point.
posted by blenderfish at 4:06 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by blenderfish at 4:06 PM on September 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I signed up and joined the team. Thanks for the reminder, parmanparman -- I'd been meaning to participate.
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 6:43 PM on September 18, 2009
posted by rangefinder 1.4 at 6:43 PM on September 18, 2009
Add me to the list of people who read this, joined the team, and re-lent the $75 Kiva credit I had forgotten about to a nice woman who runs a convenience store in Guatemala.
(I've lent this $75 several times - all loans paid back.)
posted by mmoncur at 5:46 AM on September 19, 2009
(I've lent this $75 several times - all loans paid back.)
posted by mmoncur at 5:46 AM on September 19, 2009
Thank you for plugging this!
I've always wanted to give to charity, but found the options a bit bewildering. Registered at Kiva now and added $100 to start off.
Thank you again. Microcredit does great things around the world!
posted by flippant at 8:24 AM on September 19, 2009
I've always wanted to give to charity, but found the options a bit bewildering. Registered at Kiva now and added $100 to start off.
Thank you again. Microcredit does great things around the world!
posted by flippant at 8:24 AM on September 19, 2009
Hm.
There are about 6,000 Kiva teams that have made at least one loan, 1100 that have loaned more than $1,000, and 330 that have loaned more than $5,000.
At $8,350, the Metafilter team ranks #217 of all Kiva teams in amount loaned. We've now donated more than several business/workplace teams, like TechCrunch and Google.
We could very easily make the top 100 teams, and higher, if we just keep re-lending. Just look at Belgium. They're 5th in amount loaned.
posted by zennie at 8:30 AM on September 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
There are about 6,000 Kiva teams that have made at least one loan, 1100 that have loaned more than $1,000, and 330 that have loaned more than $5,000.
At $8,350, the Metafilter team ranks #217 of all Kiva teams in amount loaned. We've now donated more than several business/workplace teams, like TechCrunch and Google.
We could very easily make the top 100 teams, and higher, if we just keep re-lending. Just look at Belgium. They're 5th in amount loaned.
posted by zennie at 8:30 AM on September 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
Add to that: I'm definitely gifting my parents a Kiva profile loaded with money to "spend" for Christmas. Giving the gift of giving, so to speak.
Just awesome.
posted by flippant at 8:32 AM on September 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Just awesome.
posted by flippant at 8:32 AM on September 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Here's my one weird question... if I'm on the MeFi Team and the Atheists Team [not saying I am...] does my donation count for both teams?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:25 PM on September 19, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:25 PM on September 19, 2009
jessamyn: when you make a loan it asks you which team it should apply to. So you have to choose one.
posted by mmoncur at 3:54 PM on September 19, 2009
posted by mmoncur at 3:54 PM on September 19, 2009
Just nthing the observation that, yeah, you really *do* get paid back... of course, given the condition of the people you're lending money to, the experience of getting money back from them-- and with interest-- can feel a little weird...
posted by darth_tedious at 10:04 PM on September 19, 2009
posted by darth_tedious at 10:04 PM on September 19, 2009
the experience of getting money back from them-- and with interest-- can feel a little weird...
Lenders do not receive interest - you lend out $25, the most you get back is $25.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:06 PM on September 19, 2009
Lenders do not receive interest - you lend out $25, the most you get back is $25.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:06 PM on September 19, 2009
Zennie: Hmm. So "amount loaned" is cumulative and not current? Didn't see this addressed anywhere.
Come on guys, let's get this to 10k!
posted by blenderfish at 1:01 AM on September 20, 2009
Come on guys, let's get this to 10k!
posted by blenderfish at 1:01 AM on September 20, 2009
if I'm on the MeFi Team and the Atheists Team [not saying I am...] does my donation count for both teams?
I emailed Kiva explaining why I'd like to be able to have the option to donate to two teams (MeFi and Christian) and I got a polite response explaining how they had considered that but it wasn't an option they were comfortable offering at this point as people could be posting their donations to numerous teams. I didn't understand why limiting it to just 2 or 3 might not be an option, but they were a) not very clear, and b) pretty firm on their position.
I decided just to donate what I could and assign it to MeFi right now, and when I get it back (14% returned so far), I'll assign the next one to my other team - and maybe if I can afford another one by that point I'll give that one to MeFi. Keep it rotating. Just a thought. (Maybe they don't want to offer the multiple-teams option so it'll make people like us donate more and more often, heh.)
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:38 AM on September 20, 2009
I emailed Kiva explaining why I'd like to be able to have the option to donate to two teams (MeFi and Christian) and I got a polite response explaining how they had considered that but it wasn't an option they were comfortable offering at this point as people could be posting their donations to numerous teams. I didn't understand why limiting it to just 2 or 3 might not be an option, but they were a) not very clear, and b) pretty firm on their position.
I decided just to donate what I could and assign it to MeFi right now, and when I get it back (14% returned so far), I'll assign the next one to my other team - and maybe if I can afford another one by that point I'll give that one to MeFi. Keep it rotating. Just a thought. (Maybe they don't want to offer the multiple-teams option so it'll make people like us donate more and more often, heh.)
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:38 AM on September 20, 2009
if I'm on the MeFi Team and the Atheists Team [not saying I am...] does my donation count for both teams?
When making each loan you can select to associate it with one (or none) of the teams you are a member of.
posted by Lanark at 11:43 AM on September 20, 2009
When making each loan you can select to associate it with one (or none) of the teams you are a member of.
posted by Lanark at 11:43 AM on September 20, 2009
I got a polite response explaining how they had considered that but it wasn't an option they were comfortable offering at this point as people could be posting their donations to numerous teams.
My understanding, now that I get this, is that they do a certain amount of ranking between the teams, just in sort of "good fun" sorts of ways. So they make each donation count for only one team so that they know people aren't double dipping etc.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:53 AM on September 20, 2009
My understanding, now that I get this, is that they do a certain amount of ranking between the teams, just in sort of "good fun" sorts of ways. So they make each donation count for only one team so that they know people aren't double dipping etc.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:53 AM on September 20, 2009
Zennie: Hmm. So "amount loaned" is cumulative and not current?
Yes, it's the sum of all loans ever credited to the team.
posted by zennie at 12:14 PM on September 20, 2009
Yes, it's the sum of all loans ever credited to the team.
posted by zennie at 12:14 PM on September 20, 2009
My understanding, now that I get this, is that they do a certain amount of ranking between the teams, just in sort of "good fun" sorts of ways. So they make each donation count for only one team so that they know people aren't double dipping etc.
Yeah, you'd have an "approval voting" system, where "things that we all can agree on" would invariably dominate. Atheism and Christianity are already pretty unstoppable; this would only amplify that. Also, since that system isn't zero-sum, you could have a 'pledge drive', for example to MeFi's team, which wouldn't hurt another team, yet wouldn't actually result in any additional money loaned.
The ranking would be more obvious if they were to show the team's rank in its info page. Maybe that would be too depressing for too many teams.
posted by blenderfish at 5:57 PM on September 20, 2009
Yeah, you'd have an "approval voting" system, where "things that we all can agree on" would invariably dominate. Atheism and Christianity are already pretty unstoppable; this would only amplify that. Also, since that system isn't zero-sum, you could have a 'pledge drive', for example to MeFi's team, which wouldn't hurt another team, yet wouldn't actually result in any additional money loaned.
The ranking would be more obvious if they were to show the team's rank in its info page. Maybe that would be too depressing for too many teams.
posted by blenderfish at 5:57 PM on September 20, 2009
Hey, just wanted to pop in and apologize for acting like a piece of shit to DarlingBri. I allowed some IRL stuff to get to me and I shouldn't have taken it out on DB and by extension the rest of Metafilter. Sorry!
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 4:19 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by R_Nebblesworth at 4:19 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I started donating to Kiva a couple years ago. I DONATE to them to support their operations. I do not lend; I simply don't have the time to deal with the churn of the loans. It sounds like fun but I don't have the time -- I'm too busy making money so I can donate it :)
Kiva does have an option for pure donations so consider that. Unfortunately you MUST use PayPal -- you can't send in a check. Kiva is the only charity that I support that has that limitation,and it's a minor drag that my donations to that aren't tracked in my checking account like everything else. And of course I hate PayPal.
posted by intermod at 10:07 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Kiva does have an option for pure donations so consider that. Unfortunately you MUST use PayPal -- you can't send in a check. Kiva is the only charity that I support that has that limitation,and it's a minor drag that my donations to that aren't tracked in my checking account like everything else. And of course I hate PayPal.
posted by intermod at 10:07 PM on September 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is awesome, and it's nice to see they have a decent list of corporate partners pitching in and doing their part like Intel.
posted by lmm at 4:15 PM on September 23, 2009
posted by lmm at 4:15 PM on September 23, 2009
$9,650 now. Nearly $5,000 in TEN DAYS. Color me impressed, Metafilter.
posted by zennie at 9:37 AM on September 27, 2009
posted by zennie at 9:37 AM on September 27, 2009
Okay. I kicked in the extra 50. 5 figures!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
There's a microloan agency here in Lebanon that works with Kiva. Which means that the guy around the corner from me with the carwash has absolutely no idea that I've secretly lent him some money, but it sure does make me feel good whenever I walk by.
Now to join up with the MeFi team.
posted by lauranesson at 2:02 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Now to join up with the MeFi team.
posted by lauranesson at 2:02 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
And my friend was just in for $200. Consider her honourary mefi - we didn't get her in the team in time. Can you assign to a team post loan?
posted by jaduncan at 5:51 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by jaduncan at 5:51 PM on September 30, 2009
Hey, just wanted to pop in and apologize for acting like a piece of shit to DarlingBri. I allowed some IRL stuff to get to me and I shouldn't have taken it out on DB and by extension the rest of Metafilter. Sorry!
And I apologise to all of you for pooping in your happy-happy-joy-joy thread. I had a bad taste in my mouth from the previous post on this subject but I should have taken this thread on it's own merits. I'm sorry and I'm delighted you've generated such a large amount of loan money. Way to go, Team MeFi!
posted by DarlingBri at 10:28 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
And I apologise to all of you for pooping in your happy-happy-joy-joy thread. I had a bad taste in my mouth from the previous post on this subject but I should have taken this thread on it's own merits. I'm sorry and I'm delighted you've generated such a large amount of loan money. Way to go, Team MeFi!
posted by DarlingBri at 10:28 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Can you assign to a team post loan?
Yes. When I signed up, I did it in the wrong order (I think, I made the donation then joined the team, when I should have done the reverse). I sent them an email, and they fixed it.
posted by Houstonian at 6:06 AM on October 1, 2009
Yes. When I signed up, I did it in the wrong order (I think, I made the donation then joined the team, when I should have done the reverse). I sent them an email, and they fixed it.
posted by Houstonian at 6:06 AM on October 1, 2009
We're up to 160 members! Thank you to every one of you who took part and provided so many answers to the many questions on this thread. We did it together and you are all so wonderful.
posted by parmanparman at 12:50 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by parmanparman at 12:50 PM on October 13, 2009
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posted by parmanparman at 9:51 AM on September 17, 2009 [4 favorites]