I can't tell you how this has shocked and devastated us. We loved this family. We love them still. The first thing we did when we learned of all this, before we had any idea who did what, and still held out hope that it was all some kind of mistake, was to write them letters. [...] We then began simply waiting, praying for the best outcome for all involved, and hoping some light would be shed on how such a thing could have happened - and wishing none of it was real.This blogger is an intelligent, thoughtful Christian woman. Had she known that this philosophy existed, she might have been able to intervene and avoid this tragedy. There may be MeFite Christians who will be in a similar position someday.
[...]
As the days have gone by, more and more information has been uncovered about our friends. It turns out they were following the methods of Michael and Debi Pearl's "ministry" of systematic child "training". My husband and I have spent hours upon hours since this discovery poring over Pearl literature, disgusted. Horrified. I wanted understanding of what could have led to this tragedy, and I got it. The Pearl Method was the missing link. It made “sense” of what made no sense before. From what I've read, and even from some hindsight reflections of what I knew of this family, it appears they were following Pearl teachings very carefully - in doctrine and in practice.
When the loudest voices of Christianity proudly proclaim these ideals, it is not surprising that non-Christians consider Christianity as a less-than-good influence on people.You are talking about the wider world when you say this.
I've seen little slagging of religious people.That depends on whether you consider argumentation of the following form "slagging" or not (I do):
I prefer Jesus-follower to Christian. The C-word is packed with so much unwanted assumptions and political baggage that I don't really want to label myself thusly.Considering how clearly those assumptions are illuminated on the Blue, I think that's a very wise position to take.
He insisted that Christians could achieve total sanctification (a state of sinless living) in this lifetime. We heartily disagree. We actually believe that is an un-Biblical and unhealthy teaching which can lead to any number of problems - in particular legalism and perfectionism.It is my opinion that his belief in total santification did, in fact, lead to 'legalism and perfectionism', and that lead to the use of the Pearl system to punish, terribly punish, for any deviance from his percieved path of perfectionism.
It's a bit of both. I've run mailing lists for years and *by far* the most interesting and productive people on the lists were the argumentative dicks.That's there. This is here.
maybe the mods could explain why this is soYou have posted in this thread 63 times. What started as a general discussion about a thread on religion has now become The unSane Show, and that tells me more than anything the moderators could.
I've run mailing lists for years and *by far* the most interesting and productive people on the lists were the argumentative dicks. They often arrived in a blaze of vitriol, picked a fight, were ruthlessly beaten up by the locals, and then settled in to await the next hardon who turned up. It got to be such a routine we all knew the script and would take turns to engage the newcomer.This is basically how most of the internet functions, including mailing lists and message boards. I'm on Metafilter precisely to avoid the scripted bickering.
The scripted bickering was a very small part of the interaction. It happened once every six months.Let me say this loudly, so it's clear:
SO. WHAT.This is not there. This is MetaFilter. It doesn't matter a tinker's damn what the norms are elsewhere, what you did or anyone else did when they ran this or that place over there. We are talking about what we do here, and bringing up how things were on some other unrelated site is more or less an appeal to authority, because those other sites had their own sets of norms, their own sets of values, and (and this is important), not all online communities are the same.
"I am sure her experience is far from unique. And what if we assume a less altruistic child, worried about her own eternity rather than a friend's? Odious as the physical abuse of children by priests undoubtedly is, I suspect that it may do them less lasting damage than the mental abuse of bringing them up Catholic in the first place.I have a great deal of respect for Dawkins. Sincerely. The man has a brilliant, incisive mind and I've enjoyed reading much his work.
'What shall we tell the children?' is a superb polemic on how religions abuse the minds of children, by the distinguished psychologist Nicholas Humphrey. It was originally delivered as a lecture in aid of Amnesty International, and has now been reissued as a chapter of his book, The Mind Made Flesh, just published by Oxford University Press. It is also available on the worldwide web and I strongly recommend it. Humphrey argues that, in the same way as Amnesty works tirelessly to free political prisoners the world over, we should work to free the children of the world from the religions which, with parental approval, damage minds too young to understand what is happening to them. He is right, and the same lesson should inform our discussions of the current pedophile brouhaha. Priestly groping of child bodies is disgusting. But it may be less harmful in the long run than priestly subversion of child minds."
"I am sure her experience is far from unique. And what if we assume a less altruistic child, worried about her own eternity rather than a friend's? Odious as the physical abuse of children by priests undoubtedly is, I suspect that it may do them less lasting damage than the mental abuse of bringing them up Catholic in the first place.*tap* *tap*
'What shall we tell the children?' is a superb polemic on how religions abuse the minds of children, by the distinguished psychologist Nicholas Humphrey. It was originally delivered as a lecture in aid of Amnesty International, and has now been reissued as a chapter of his book, The Mind Made Flesh, just published by Oxford University Press. It is also available on the worldwide web and I strongly recommend it. Humphrey argues that, in the same way as Amnesty works tirelessly to free political prisoners the world over, we should work to free the children of the world from the religions which, with parental approval, damage minds too young to understand what is happening to them. He is right, and the same lesson should inform our discussions of the current pedophile brouhaha. Priestly groping of child bodies is disgusting. But it may be less harmful in the long run than priestly subversion of child minds."
Must every thread about religion turn into an exercise in how religion is inherently a force for evil?Which seems fairly self-explanatory to me. If more explanation is indeed needed, there are almost 800 comments in this thread, many of them from religious members, many others from non-religious members, and some from non-religious moderators, explaining exactly what the problematic behavior is and why it is problematic.
It's derailing this thread as we speak. I'm coming at it as an atheist, so I can sympathize with people who are suspect of religion in general, but I'm of the opinion that it's started to be one of those behaviors that people on this site reflexively engage in, without concern for other members, or whether it forwards the discussion, or whether it needs to happen at all, and it often seems so reductive, in that one piece of misbehavior by one religious person, if supported by their interpretation of scripture, justfied denigrating and dismissing all religion.
This service is provided to increase your understanding.I guess it boils down to "don't be a dick". Oh well.
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FFF, we are well aware of how you feel about God. We get it. You do not get to dictate whether or not believers in God get to participate in Metafilter. You are not a mod, you do not own the site, you are simply a member, just like the rest of us.The hell, mom? Bite my ass.
A version adapted by Steven Soderbergh and Scott Kramer, and slated to be directed by David Gordon Green, was scheduled for release in 2005. The film was to star Will Ferrell as Ignatius and Lily Tomlin as Ignatius's mother. (...)Let it ever be so.
Various reasons are cited as to why the movie has yet to be filmed. They include: disorganization and lack of interest at Paramount Pictures, the head of the Louisiana State Film Commission being murdered, and the devastating effects of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans.[5] When asked why the film was never made, Will Ferrell has said it is a "mystery."
posted by Think_Long at 2:46 PM on February 23, 2010