The Lynch Comment March 18, 2010 3:46 PM Subscribe
I'm looking for an old comment that explained David Lynch's movie The Straight Story was secretly about an abusive alcoholic.
I looked in all the Lynch threads with a "straight story" search, but nothing came up. I remember reading it about this time last year, though I forget if I was reading the archives or the daily posts.
The comment explained that "The Straight Story" is in and of itself an ironic title, and that while Lynch avoids all his Lynchian quirks he still hints at a darker and more ominous story. I thought it was a great comment and it irks me that I haven't been able to find it.
I looked in all the Lynch threads with a "straight story" search, but nothing came up. I remember reading it about this time last year, though I forget if I was reading the archives or the daily posts.
The comment explained that "The Straight Story" is in and of itself an ironic title, and that while Lynch avoids all his Lynchian quirks he still hints at a darker and more ominous story. I thought it was a great comment and it irks me that I haven't been able to find it.
Well that's kinda short so probably not.
posted by dead cousin ted at 3:49 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by dead cousin ted at 3:49 PM on March 18, 2010
Nope. That one came up in the search, but it was a shorter summary of the one I recall reading.
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:51 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:51 PM on March 18, 2010
Well it is his only straight story...
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 3:52 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 3:52 PM on March 18, 2010
No idea where it was linked, but this analysis seems likely; I'm pretty sure I first ran across it on metafilter.
posted by Drastic at 4:00 PM on March 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Drastic at 4:00 PM on March 18, 2010 [4 favorites]
I can't find the comment you're after, but I did find this article which puts forward that interpretation:
The story that Alvin tells of his own past, piece by piece, to the various people he meets is full of conspicuous gaps and contradictions. Take his story about his hard drinking: that he'd developed "a mournful taste for alcohol" during the war in France and became a mean drunk, but was helped to give up drinking by a preacher after he got home. Or his story about his daughter Rose: that she had four children, but that the state, misinterpreting her speech (or neurological) impediment as evidence that she was an unfit mother, took them away when one of them was burned in a fire. Or Alvin's account of his falling-out with his brother Lyle: the one time he's directly asked what was at issue, he vaguely waves the question off ("anger ... vanity ..."). Or even his answering "I did" when Lyle, at the film's end, asks if he drove his mower "just to see" him. None of these stories is quite straight. In fact, none of them stands up to much scrutiny at all.posted by Electric Dragon at 4:01 PM on March 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes! That Kreider article must have been what I was thinking of.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:03 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:03 PM on March 18, 2010
And here's the comment where The Whelk references it.
posted by Electric Dragon at 4:14 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by Electric Dragon at 4:14 PM on March 18, 2010
October. That makes sense. I saw Eraserhead, my first Lynch film, shortly after that. I also remember Ambrosia Voyeur's opening comment in that thread.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:19 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:19 PM on March 18, 2010
I always forget just how young of a whippersnapper you are.
posted by blasdelf at 5:27 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by blasdelf at 5:27 PM on March 18, 2010
*waves*
I get really tired of talking about David Lynch. He's almost as overanalyzed as Hitchcock, and I say that as someone who overanalyzes movies for a living. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can find another clue and another and another to grant his nonsense meaning. I mean, that's amazing all around, that this guy has managed to nearly corner the market on public recognition for open text cinema in the US, but it's just maddening, that promise of "an answer" if only you do more calculus and compare the use of doors and jump cuts in IE with WAH etc. etc. etc.
Maybe I'm just pissed because I like The Straight Story "Straight" as it were. People don't have to always make sense and withstand scrutiny. This isn't a courtroom, it's a theater. Jeez.
S:|x
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:59 PM on March 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
I get really tired of talking about David Lynch. He's almost as overanalyzed as Hitchcock, and I say that as someone who overanalyzes movies for a living. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can find another clue and another and another to grant his nonsense meaning. I mean, that's amazing all around, that this guy has managed to nearly corner the market on public recognition for open text cinema in the US, but it's just maddening, that promise of "an answer" if only you do more calculus and compare the use of doors and jump cuts in IE with WAH etc. etc. etc.
Maybe I'm just pissed because I like The Straight Story "Straight" as it were. People don't have to always make sense and withstand scrutiny. This isn't a courtroom, it's a theater. Jeez.
S:|x
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:59 PM on March 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh hey that's mine! Or rather Tom Kreider's, who people should really read more of.
As for the Straight Story, I defer to the "Name a Lynch story that wasn't about demons, death, and the shallowness of surfaces?" argument.
posted by The Whelk at 6:03 PM on March 18, 2010
As for the Straight Story, I defer to the "Name a Lynch story that wasn't about demons, death, and the shallowness of surfaces?" argument.
posted by The Whelk at 6:03 PM on March 18, 2010
TIM! TIM KREIDER! Ahhh! He's gonna put me in the raccoon coat again.
posted by The Whelk at 6:04 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 6:04 PM on March 18, 2010
I loved that movie. Apparently it was based on a true story.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:11 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:11 PM on March 18, 2010
AV, yeah, it's almost as tiresome as people's whackadoo Shining interpretations. I'm not sure what makes people think these stories are "really about" something besides what they claim to be (or in Lynch's case, nothing at all, IMO). Has Kubrick or Lynch ever indicated the symbolism they use is there for any other purpose than to give it their signature feel?
That said, sometime's it's good fun to overthink it.
posted by cj_ at 7:03 PM on March 18, 2010
That said, sometime's it's good fun to overthink it.
posted by cj_ at 7:03 PM on March 18, 2010
Isn't any good film about a lot of things, the way Hemingway talked about making a story "good and true enough" that it would be about many things, and isn't part of the value of film and literature and so forth, that it forces us to evaluate what it is about - to the author, to other viewers, to ourselves, because that process of trying to discover meaning might help us find meaning about and in our own lives?
posted by serazin at 7:11 PM on March 18, 2010
posted by serazin at 7:11 PM on March 18, 2010
> t it forces us to evaluate what it is about - to the author
This part, not so much. Can not do. Authorial intent is a red herring. Open texts: good. Texts taken as mysterious puzzles to be decoded definitively: bad.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:35 PM on March 18, 2010
This part, not so much. Can not do. Authorial intent is a red herring. Open texts: good. Texts taken as mysterious puzzles to be decoded definitively: bad.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:35 PM on March 18, 2010
Why bad? Author intent really interests me. For me it's one of the fun things, or maybe compelling things about reading or watching films. Not the only compelling thing but...
I've been watching all this Godard and for me the main attractive thing about his movies may be trying to decode his intent or at least his subconscious. Is he just a sexist jerk who wants a mouthpiece with which to pontificate? Why does he always linger on the backs of people's heads? Could I think about people differently if I listened to their words without looking at their faces? Why did he choose that famous last line in Breathless and what would it have sounded like if I spoke French?
It's not like I think there's one TRUE answer to be found if I just analyze author intent long enough, but there are a lot of interesting questions to be asked about it.
posted by serazin at 9:50 PM on March 18, 2010
I've been watching all this Godard and for me the main attractive thing about his movies may be trying to decode his intent or at least his subconscious. Is he just a sexist jerk who wants a mouthpiece with which to pontificate? Why does he always linger on the backs of people's heads? Could I think about people differently if I listened to their words without looking at their faces? Why did he choose that famous last line in Breathless and what would it have sounded like if I spoke French?
It's not like I think there's one TRUE answer to be found if I just analyze author intent long enough, but there are a lot of interesting questions to be asked about it.
posted by serazin at 9:50 PM on March 18, 2010
Yeah, there are, sure. But especially in cinema, which is so often so very collaborative, it's just awfully speculative and reductive, and only one useful analytical device among others. I find the Straight Story interpretation a little too rhetorical, too driven toward concretizing a reading of David Lynchness as an overweening influence even in films which seem to expand the definition of it. I guess a reading as a decoding presumes too much meaning-locatability to me. Meaning is going to be changeable depending on contexts, and there's too much arrogance in the "Eureka, Sheeple!" model... for my taste, is all.
Even if Lost Highway totally IS secretly about postmodern anxieties about the loss of control over the body, material and referent, specifically allegorized through a narrartive about disembodying desire and video pornography. Trés LA.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:11 PM on March 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
Even if Lost Highway totally IS secretly about postmodern anxieties about the loss of control over the body, material and referent, specifically allegorized through a narrartive about disembodying desire and video pornography. Trés LA.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:11 PM on March 18, 2010 [2 favorites]
My favorite thing about The Straight Story was the cognitive dissonance of seeing these words on the screen:
Walt Disney Presents
A David Lynch Film
posted by ambrosia at 10:43 PM on March 18, 2010 [7 favorites]
Walt Disney Presents
A David Lynch Film
posted by ambrosia at 10:43 PM on March 18, 2010 [7 favorites]
But it should be pointed out that Alvin's quaint metaphor for strength through unity, the bundle of sticks tied together, is not his own invention. The "fasces," a bound bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade protruding forward, was an object borne ceremonially before Roman magistrates as an emblem of imperial power. The term "fascism" is derived from this emblem, a symbol of invincible strength through monolithic solidarity and submission to a single will-typically that of a tyrannical patriarch who ends up getting people killed. Even if you tie a pretty bow around that, it's still ugly.Seemed pretty unconvincing from the start, and this bit was the window-closer.
posted by fleacircus at 5:05 AM on March 19, 2010
Fleacircus: That part was a bit of a stretch, but later elaboration seemed like reproducible logic.
Ambrosia Voyeur: I've found the exact opposite with Lynch's films. For all people say they're hard to understand, there's usually a very specific logic running through the film that explains everything perfectly. Certainly there is in Mulhulland Drive, Twin Peaks, and Blue Velvet; Lost Highway's not quite as neat but it's not hard to figure out.
The only two films of his that defy such easy analysis are INLAND EMPIRE and Eraserhead, which might actually be why I think those are his two technically best pieces.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:21 AM on March 19, 2010
Ambrosia Voyeur: I've found the exact opposite with Lynch's films. For all people say they're hard to understand, there's usually a very specific logic running through the film that explains everything perfectly. Certainly there is in Mulhulland Drive, Twin Peaks, and Blue Velvet; Lost Highway's not quite as neat but it's not hard to figure out.
The only two films of his that defy such easy analysis are INLAND EMPIRE and Eraserhead, which might actually be why I think those are his two technically best pieces.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:21 AM on March 19, 2010
My favorite thing about The Straight Story was the cognitive dissonance of seeing these words on the screen:
Walt Disney Presents
A David Lynch Film
ambrosia, I agree.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 6:05 AM on March 19, 2010
Walt Disney Presents
A David Lynch Film
ambrosia, I agree.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 6:05 AM on March 19, 2010
Ambrosia Voyeur: I've found the exact opposite with Lynch's films. For all people say they're hard to understand, there's usually a very specific logic running through the film that explains everything perfectly. Certainly there is in Mulhulland Drive, Twin Peaks, and Blue Velvet; Lost Highway's not quite as neat but it's not hard to figure out.
Don't make me come down there.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:28 AM on March 19, 2010
Don't make me come down there.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:28 AM on March 19, 2010
That was a very interesting article (except for the incredibly stupid argument that the bundle of sticks metaphor for unity was *really* a metaphor for fascism because that's how the Romans used it — and it's such a widely known historical fact that Alvin would have been familiar with!) and I'm glad to have it brought to my attention. I missed that Alvin's past behaviour was so much worse than he could bring himself to say, and the idea of the trip as a penance.
I gave the DVD to my father for Christmas a few years ago, and he and my mother really enjoyed it (this is remarkable because they seldom like the same movies). I think I won't tell them about this article, though.
posted by orange swan at 8:09 AM on March 19, 2010
I gave the DVD to my father for Christmas a few years ago, and he and my mother really enjoyed it (this is remarkable because they seldom like the same movies). I think I won't tell them about this article, though.
posted by orange swan at 8:09 AM on March 19, 2010
I think there is a deliberately vagueness about Alvin Straight's alcoholism and the injury to his grandchild. That being said, Alvin Straight was a real man, and the vagueness might be caused by the fact that Alvin himself was vague (he did not like publicity), and the filmmakers didn't want to just make stuff up, so left the vagueness in. Works based on true stories are a bit different than works of pure fiction, in that a question that is useful to ask before delving into any sort of criticism is "What fealty did the filmmakers feel toward the true story."
When there's very little, as in Bonnie and Clyde, there is greater room for reading in authorial flourishes and intentions. But I can't be sure here that Lynch was crafting a hidden narrative unless I know that he felt okay about doing so.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:34 AM on March 19, 2010
When there's very little, as in Bonnie and Clyde, there is greater room for reading in authorial flourishes and intentions. But I can't be sure here that Lynch was crafting a hidden narrative unless I know that he felt okay about doing so.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:34 AM on March 19, 2010
FWIW, Lynch didn't write the script for The Straight Story-- his long-time partner & editor Mary Sweeney wrote it and presented it to him as an idea for him to direct.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:41 AM on March 19, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 8:41 AM on March 19, 2010
Leland Palmer.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:55 AM on March 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:55 AM on March 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Texts taken as mysterious puzzles to be decoded definitively: bad.
And I thought you liked House of Leaves.
(I remembered that because it was the only time we've ever agreed about something)
posted by Afroblanco at 8:59 AM on March 19, 2010
And I thought you liked House of Leaves.
(I remembered that because it was the only time we've ever agreed about something)
posted by Afroblanco at 8:59 AM on March 19, 2010
Alvin wouldn't know about the significance of the sticks but Mary Sweeney might have. I'm in the camp that the movie is presenting a running commentary on Alvin's story - deepening it and making it more about atonement then is presented.
Isn't talking about movies fun? Who wants to do Shutter Island? Or the Headache That Was A Movie?
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 AM on March 19, 2010
Isn't talking about movies fun? Who wants to do Shutter Island? Or the Headache That Was A Movie?
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 AM on March 19, 2010
Forgive the swerve, but everything I've seen so far in Deadly Premonition has me believing that, as folks reviewing the game have suggested, the people who made that game are serious Twin Peaks fans. To the point where I want a Lynch-happy film studies person to give it a serious going over. And to the point where I want to watch all of Twin Peaks again.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:26 AM on March 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:26 AM on March 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
So, Rory, what is this logic that Dune has in common with Wild at Heart, or Mullholland Drive with The Elephant man? How is it conveyed?
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:33 AM on March 19, 2010
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:33 AM on March 19, 2010
Or the Headache That Was A Movie?
From Justin to Kelly?
posted by sallybrown at 9:33 AM on March 19, 2010
From Justin to Kelly?
posted by sallybrown at 9:33 AM on March 19, 2010
Is Deadly Premonition only for 360?
posted by shakespeherian at 9:34 AM on March 19, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 9:34 AM on March 19, 2010
You can apparently find an import for the PS3 for like $80, I guess. So, reasonably speaking: yes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:42 AM on March 19, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:42 AM on March 19, 2010
I didn't mean logic running between films. I meant each film has its own inherent logic.
That said, DFW's essay about Lynch makes a pretty damn convincing argument about Lynch's films and how they deal with evil as a concept.
posted by Rory Marinich at 9:48 AM on March 19, 2010
That said, DFW's essay about Lynch makes a pretty damn convincing argument about Lynch's films and how they deal with evil as a concept.
posted by Rory Marinich at 9:48 AM on March 19, 2010
Option 1: You find some other Lynch-happy film studies person who has an Xbox360
Option 2: Convince my wife that we need an Xbox360 (you know, for kids!)
She will listen to you, cortex. I will show her the gif of you drumming.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:48 AM on March 19, 2010
Option 2: Convince my wife that we need an Xbox360 (you know, for kids!)
She will listen to you, cortex. I will show her the gif of you drumming.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:48 AM on March 19, 2010
I can second that Deadly Premonition is so very worth playing for any Lynch obsessives out there. It swerves haphazardly between loving homage and an inspired lunacy that Lynch himself would be envious of. It's not "so bad it's good" like the reviews are saying. It's just completely unhinged in the best way.
posted by naju at 1:02 PM on March 19, 2010
posted by naju at 1:02 PM on March 19, 2010
Well, it's not "so bad it's good", but it's bad in some concrete gameplay senses—the control are clunky and dated, the graphics are pretty underwhelming by current generational standards, and the pacing is less than sure-footed at parts. An aura of just general clunkiness hangs over it.
But it's not so bad that it's unplayable, and if you are a fan of survival horror dating back to the PS1 Resident Evil games and their kin, the clunkiness is not so much a let down as it is a warm, familiar blanket.
All of that is aside from the Lynchian feel of the game content, which stands more or less apart from the game mechanic stuff. When you find yourself arguing with your wife over whether the shrieking, brassy jazz line in the background is a trumpet or a saxaphone, you've got a good soundtrack, for example.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2010
But it's not so bad that it's unplayable, and if you are a fan of survival horror dating back to the PS1 Resident Evil games and their kin, the clunkiness is not so much a let down as it is a warm, familiar blanket.
All of that is aside from the Lynchian feel of the game content, which stands more or less apart from the game mechanic stuff. When you find yourself arguing with your wife over whether the shrieking, brassy jazz line in the background is a trumpet or a saxaphone, you've got a good soundtrack, for example.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2010
Oh yeah, there's certainly some problems with the gameplay you'll have to come to terms with, but the narrative elements are pure gold. From what I understand, there's also fifty (!) townspeople with their own stories and sidequests to explore.
posted by naju at 1:37 PM on March 19, 2010
posted by naju at 1:37 PM on March 19, 2010
Deadly Premonition is a great game. Isn't that right, Zach?
posted by Drastic at 2:59 PM on March 19, 2010
posted by Drastic at 2:59 PM on March 19, 2010
Open texts: good. Texts taken as mysterious puzzles to be decoded definitively: bad.
Just a quick question for AV or other people in here who know stuff about film: how do you know the difference between an open text and one that's taken as a mysterious puzzle to be decoded indefinitely? Because I feel like I know the latter when I see it, or rather, when I see the ugly websites with endless centred text about how Kubrick was really demonstrating his knowledge of the moon landing conspiracy.
But I'd really rather know about the open text films and watch some of those. Or is it more a comment on obsessive fans than the films themselves?
I do enjoy puzzling out the meaning of less-straightforward movies. I tend to think that Kubrick's films, to use the same example, aren't as fiendishly complex as some people want them to be. He just didn't like to explain the meaning to the audience with dialogue, or give interviews about what was on his mind. It's fun to try to figure it out from the visuals (and aren't the visuals the point of making a movie instead of writing a book anyway?), but it's not like you're cracking the Enigma code or anything.
posted by harriet vane at 5:47 AM on March 20, 2010
Just a quick question for AV or other people in here who know stuff about film: how do you know the difference between an open text and one that's taken as a mysterious puzzle to be decoded indefinitely? Because I feel like I know the latter when I see it, or rather, when I see the ugly websites with endless centred text about how Kubrick was really demonstrating his knowledge of the moon landing conspiracy.
But I'd really rather know about the open text films and watch some of those. Or is it more a comment on obsessive fans than the films themselves?
I do enjoy puzzling out the meaning of less-straightforward movies. I tend to think that Kubrick's films, to use the same example, aren't as fiendishly complex as some people want them to be. He just didn't like to explain the meaning to the audience with dialogue, or give interviews about what was on his mind. It's fun to try to figure it out from the visuals (and aren't the visuals the point of making a movie instead of writing a book anyway?), but it's not like you're cracking the Enigma code or anything.
posted by harriet vane at 5:47 AM on March 20, 2010
It's fine to think Lynch is a ninny, an obscurantist, or a mere juxtapositionist. What is absurd is to write him off as an auteur because he made a couple of Hollywood films that don't quite match up with the rest of his output. Ever get hired to do a job for money because the people with the money thought you were all right for it based on your résumé and you wanted the dough to buy some freedom with?
posted by Wolof at 7:51 AM on March 20, 2010
posted by Wolof at 7:51 AM on March 20, 2010
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by dead cousin ted at 3:49 PM on March 18, 2010