Posting Links Blind

June 11, 2010 1:30 PM

Posting links to the front page without having viewed them first?

griphus mentions here that he made his post without actually viewing the video he links.

Cool, or not cool? I'm interested in what others think.

posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey to Etiquette/Policy at 1:30 PM (53 comments total)

I vote uncool though I like griphus and nothing against him personally. If you didn't see the video, then link to The Awl post that talks about the video since preumably that's the part you have read. I mean sometimes we see compilation YouTube posts where maybe someone hasn't sat through all the videos but knows they're mostly "of a kind" but I think linking to an hourlong video in the first place is sort of a tall order [i.e. people will start talking before they've watched it all anyhow] so why do it in the first place if you can't even be bothered to watch it?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:33 PM on June 11, 2010 [5 favorites]

not cool.
posted by crunchland at 1:34 PM on June 11, 2010

Not that cool. Regardless of the subject of the post, you should be familiar with the content of your links. It's not a race and there is no reward in heaven for posting something to Metafilter before someone else.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:34 PM on June 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

yeah, screw that noise.
posted by dead cousin ted at 1:34 PM on June 11, 2010

Obviously, I've been working far too hard. :P
posted by zarq at 1:37 PM on June 11, 2010

I've posted articles to Metafilter before having read them. This one I think I only read the first paragraph when I made the post although I went back and read the whole thing after I posted it.
posted by andoatnp at 1:37 PM on June 11, 2010

Totally uncool.
posted by Jaltcoh at 1:38 PM on June 11, 2010

If you haven't consumed either the entirety of your link or spent at least half an hour at your link how can you possibly consider it vetted for the front page?
posted by Mitheral at 1:39 PM on June 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

It's terribly risky. There is a lot of duplicity on the Web.

This time it worked out. I followed the link, and now I have some money coming to me from Africa, and a new virus detection that has somehow managed to discover dozens of viruses on my computer through my browser.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:40 PM on June 11, 2010 [6 favorites]

> I've posted articles to Metafilter before having read them.

I haven't read every single sentence of every single link that I've posted, but I make sure I know what the author is on about and what their biases are, who they work for, etc. Not doing so is just neglecting due diligence. Granted, this isn't grad school, but a little bit of academic/journalistic rigor can go a long way. Just throwing stuff up on the front page because it seems on the surface to be a good post is a bit insincere. It's better if people are actually posting things they have actually pored over and appreciate rather than just getting caught up in having their name on a post.

I'm not singling you out, adndoatnp. It's just something that is often noticeable in many posts.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:42 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

...and there is no reward in heaven for posting something to Metafilter before someone else.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:34 PM

Well, then I'll see you in HELL!



That didn't come out quite right. Everybody go back to what you were doing please.
posted by marxchivist at 1:43 PM on June 11, 2010 [5 favorites]

The video is over an hour long. The first comment was posted six minutes after it was posted to MetaFilter.

So griphus didn't watch the video before posting it, but then, people didn't watch the video before commenting, either.
posted by mattdidthat at 1:43 PM on June 11, 2010

I feel like the standard should be higher for a SLYT.
posted by rosswald at 1:45 PM on June 11, 2010

Yeah, not cool. That post should have waited till after griphus got home.
posted by brundlefly at 1:46 PM on June 11, 2010

Somewhat playing the devil's advocate, but isn't part of the story just the fact that the video exists?
posted by roll truck roll at 1:47 PM on June 11, 2010 [5 favorites]

I've got no beef if you want to can the FPP. For Big Deal stuff like this I usually go with the "if I don't post this now, who will?" school of logic and leave it up to the community to decide it if was appropriate or not. I had a trusted source confirm the content, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get to a YT-equipped computer for a while (I might not be getting home tonight.)

...and there is no reward in heaven for posting something to Metafilter before someone else.

Honestly? This wasn't done out of a FIRSTIES!!1 impulse, but rather because one of the biggest points of contention in the original flotilla thread was the reliability of edited footage from both sides. I figured the sooner we can get some raw footage up here the sooner the discussion can reflect the actual events. I've surrendered one of my own FPPs to a clearly better one, but figured while the other thread was still open, this was the sort of thing that deserved its own. The v. small number of views on YT (I can load the site, just not the Flash,) indicated that there probably wouldn't be that much supporting info out there just yet.
posted by griphus at 1:47 PM on June 11, 2010

I don't post to the front page, but I post my comments without reading them.
posted by qvantamon at 1:47 PM on June 11, 2010

And in this particular case, aren't there still open threads on the flotilla incident?

I guess if it were a couple hundred of hawaiian ukulele songs, I wouldn't expect you to watch each and every one, but considering the subject matter of this video, and the fact that it's the only link ... and it's not like its breaking news. I'm pretty sure I saw links to this video days ago. There's just no good reason to have made this post the way it was made.
posted by crunchland at 1:47 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

ok. I'm wrong about the "days ago." That video is brand new.
posted by crunchland at 1:49 PM on June 11, 2010

Somewhat playing the devil's advocate, but isn't part of the story just the fact that the video exists?
posted by roll truck roll at 4:47 PM on June 11 [+] [!]

Maybe, but we pretend this site is "the best of the web." If that's part of the story of the video, then maybe include some articles or blog posts about that.

Also personally, I feel like a lot more information/footage is gonna come out... I would rather not have a FPP about every piece of information, but instead wait a little bit to do a proper f/up
posted by rosswald at 1:50 PM on June 11, 2010

Well for what it's worth, I too think this is a bad idea.
posted by Mister_A at 1:53 PM on June 11, 2010

I guess if it were a couple hundred of hawaiian ukulele songs, I wouldn't expect you to watch each and every one,

And yet... I did. Because there are a lot of amateur videos out there which use those songs as backup music which I thought would have distracted from the point of the post. I wanted to get as many videos of Israel himself singing as possible, so I watched 'em all. It's kind of funny in retrospect.

Amusingly enough, my son watched them all with me. He has the flu and couldn't sleep, so I read articles and composed the FPP in one window while running the YT videos in another. He spent three hours curled up against me with his eyes glued to the screen, and as each video ended he'd look at me and say "Again? Again? Dada, again?" :)
posted by zarq at 1:55 PM on June 11, 2010 [15 favorites]

The video is over an hour long. The first comment was posted six minutes after it was posted to MetaFilter.

So griphus didn't watch the video before posting it, but then, people didn't watch the video before commenting, either.

Point taken. But who has a higher level of obligation, the person who posts the FPP, or each individual who leaves a comment?
posted by Jaltcoh at 1:55 PM on June 11, 2010

We are, each of us, curators of the great museum that is MetaFilter.
posted by Mister_A at 2:01 PM on June 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

If I had seen that link, I'd have posted it before watching it, too.
posted by empath at 2:06 PM on June 11, 2010

posted by Mister_A We are, each of us, curators of the great museum that is MetaFilter.

"I'm sorry sir, but we do not accept self-submissions--your work must be sponsored by a patron. Excuse me, miss? If you find this work disagreeable, please voice your objections in the Hall of MetaTalk. Thank you. What? Yes, sir. Micturating Pachyderm can be seen in the Natural History wing."
posted by mattdidthat at 2:08 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

> If I had seen that link, I'd have posted it before watching it, too.

In this case, yeah, it's excusable. There are summaries of what the content is, and it offers a starkly different picture than what the IDF served up. But, I would rest in the knowledge that there's a big userbase and someone else who can actually access the video would do a better job. If not, there's always later when I'm at home and can view the unfiltered web.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:10 PM on June 11, 2010

I want the edited version. I was dead bored by minute 5. Tried jumping to the end, seems to end about where I thought it might be getting compelling, then I read the thread comments and I didn't see any of that stuff.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:12 PM on June 11, 2010

I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I post on metafilter without viewing my links first.

Stay thirsty my friends.
posted by mullingitover at 2:12 PM on June 11, 2010 [7 favorites]

The value of this specific video is that it exists at all, as much as what it specifically contains. As long as griphus vetted that the video was legit and contained what it purported to contain (and by his own account he did) then that's all the vetting this particular video needs.

I understand why on general principals blind reposting would not be cool. But this particular type of document comes pre-framed, it doesn't need the poster to explain why it's important/cool/newsworthy, because it's already self-evident.
posted by anazgnos at 2:16 PM on June 11, 2010

Somewhat playing the devil's advocate, but isn't part of the story just the fact that the video exists?

Yeah, I think on the whole posting blind is obviously a terrible idea but I have a hard time getting upset over this instance of it, because it makes a ton of sense.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:28 PM on June 11, 2010

i generally agree that posting something without seeing it at all is pretty bad.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 2:37 PM on June 11, 2010

Somewhat playing the devil's advocate, but isn't part of the story just the fact that the video exists?

Yeah, I think on the whole posting blind is obviously a terrible idea but I have a hard time getting upset over this instance of it, because it makes a ton of sense.

I think it's a bad idea in general, and a bad idea in this instance, although I have nothing against griphus.

If it's worth a post it's worth a post that is carefully composed, which in this instance means that the video is (mostly) viewed. Treating posts as things to be rushed to the front page makes a contest of what should be a considered decision.
posted by OmieWise at 2:38 PM on June 11, 2010

Well I'd suggest that it's neither "cool" nor "not cool". Somewhere in between. But definitely, don't do it. Unless you have to.
posted by polymodus at 3:08 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

As a general rule, I think no. But in this case I think it's fine. Similarly, I watched critical parts of Collateral Murder prior to posting, but not every single second.
posted by cashman at 3:12 PM on June 11, 2010

The v. small number of views on YT (I can load the site, just not the Flash,) indicated that there probably wouldn't be that much supporting info out there just yet.

Here you go.
posted by djgh at 4:25 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

After watching a fair amount of the raw video, I'd say that it doesn't really merit its own post. Even an edit of just the dramatic parts doesn't seem to rise above the "add to existing thread" threshold.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:27 PM on June 11, 2010

mattdidthat writes "So griphus didn't watch the video before posting it, but then, people didn't watch the video before commenting, either."

We hold posts to a higher standard than comments.

anazgnos writes "The value of this specific video is that it exists at all, as much as what it specifically contains. As long as griphus vetted that the video was legit and contained what it purported to contain (and by his own account he did) then that's all the vetting this particular video needs."
Burhanistan writes "In this case, yeah, it's excusable. There are summaries of what the content is, and it offers a starkly different picture than what the IDF served up."

Would it have been somehow less compelling if the video had been posted six to twelve hours later after the poster had had time to watch it? Would it have been less valuable if posted the next day? It's not like this issue is going to die off any time soon.
posted by Mitheral at 4:29 PM on June 11, 2010

I take back my previous excuse, by the way.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:32 PM on June 11, 2010

We are, each of us, curators of the great museum that is MetaFilter.

Some of us just curate the lawn.
posted by y2karl at 4:58 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

So griphus didn't watch the video before posting it, but then, people didn't watch the video before commenting, either.

Well, I certainly hope this isn't leading to some overall policy where we couldn't link and post and comment on issues relevant to the Israel/Palestine conflicts unless we, ummm, knew what we were talking about.
posted by philip-random at 5:02 PM on June 11, 2010

Well, I certainly hope this isn't leading to some overall policy where we couldn't link and post and comment on issues relevant to the Israel/Palestine conflicts unless we, ummm, knew what we were talking about.

Thank you for offering your post for our consideration at Metafilter. This month, we're testing a new submission system which we hope will cut down on the number of site flamewars associated with posts on the following topics: Lady Gaga, Israel, Palestine, Apple products, hipsters, Silverlight, abortion, Roger Ebert, religion, atheism, war, peace, Ayn Rand, clowns, high fructose corn syrup, dramas that air on HBO, American ethnocentrism, "-ian", obesity, chauvinism, Michael Moore, oppression, racism, homosexuality, cultural diffusion in the modern world, antisemitism, Andrew Sullivan, politics and circumcision. For additional details, please see this related MeTa post.

In Step Two of our new submission process, we're going to ask you to answer some questions, to gauge your topic knowledge and ability to remain objective about a topic. Please note you can always choose to refuse to answer any question. However, we may choose to reject your submission as a result.

We'd appreciate it if you would answer the following 267 questions. Your response times will be noted by our system and incorporated into your final score. Begin.

Question One: ...
posted by zarq at 5:29 PM on June 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also... that was not a pony request. ;)
posted by zarq at 5:30 PM on June 11, 2010

it never occurred to me that people would post things to the front page without reading/watching the whole thing they were posting. i mean, i don't have a lot of room to talk because i always worry that i'll be posting something boring or a double or something and as such i've only ever made one front page post - but less, fully understood and fleshed out, posts seems better to me than more, i haven't even read/watched this, posts.

as it is, i already think there are too many SLYT posts and too many I/P posts, but i understand it is up to me to just pass them by. i just don't understand how you justify a SLYT I/P post that you haven't personally sat through. i thought with I/P threads in general that we were supposed to exercise a little more due diligence and caution when posting. i would have preferred if he had waited - or put it in the existing threads.
posted by nadawi at 7:17 PM on June 11, 2010

We'd appreciate it if you would answer the following 267 questions. Your response times will be noted by our system and incorporated into your final score. Begin.

For some reason, this reminds me of Beavis and Butthead filling in the intelligence test to read "PANTERA RULES." Not that any MeFites would dream of such a thing. Oh no. A MeFi joke test would most definitely spell out "YOUR FAVORITE FPP SUCKS."
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:34 PM on June 11, 2010

well, if you can't be bothered to watch (or read) it all, why do you think the rest of us should?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:34 PM on June 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

I've got no beef if you want to can the FPP. For Big Deal stuff like this I usually go with the "if I don't post this now, who will?"

Well, you will, and after you get home and watch it. Perhaps flesh it out a bit with some other background bits (or not). I totally hear what you say about this not being "firsties" but even after you say that it still looks like it was.

I started to write something int he FPP about the apparent non ownership of the post, but ended up deleting it before hitting post. The post just seemed like something a newcomer might do...
posted by edgeways at 8:51 PM on June 11, 2010

Would it have been somehow less compelling if the video had been posted six to twelve hours later after the poster had had time to watch it? Would it have been less valuable if posted the next day?

No, it wouldn't have been any less valuable. It would have made no difference whatsoever. Unless you're suggesting that griphushad a duty to provide framing or context, or to personally point out the most interesting parts, but there is no such standard or expectation of that kind of thing when posting videos in general.

It is possible, at least in some cases, to make a determination that a piece of media is valuable, interesting, legitimate, noteworthy, FPP-worthy, or any combination of the above without actually watching it.
posted by anazgnos at 11:53 PM on June 11, 2010

The video relates to a highly contentious issue, and one in which many people would probably be advised to slow down a bit and think before posting. So in the spirit of that, it's uncool. I don't even know what the point of posting without viewing was, unless it was just to get their first. And that's lame. Is this a race?

On the other hand, at least griphus cops to it.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 1:09 AM on June 12, 2010

I never read my comments before I post them.
posted by fuq at 4:47 AM on June 12, 2010

That's cool, because no one reads your comments after you post them, either.
posted by crunchland at 4:49 AM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

I haven't read any of this post or the comments. I'm just here to see if anyone knows where I can find the Micturating Pachyderms?
posted by Elmore at 6:12 AM on June 12, 2010

"For Big Deal stuff like this I usually go with the "if I don't post this now, who will?""

Someone else.

If it's hot news now, it will be hot news in an hour or it wasn't worth posting at all. And Metafilter does not have to be kept appraised of every Big Deal nor is Big Deal posting a good idea on the whole. Especially if it's not a big enough deal for you to watch it before you expect us to.

And frankly, that something exists is not enough reason to make an FPP about it.

This was lazy and should be avoided in the future. One of the fundamental ideas behind finding something cool or interesting that you want to share is that to share it, you actually have to experience it first.
posted by klangklangston at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2010 [3 favorites]