Am I allowed to toot my mom's horn?

June 27, 2010 1:03 AM

I'd like to post a link to some poetry on my mother's blog on the blue. Is that appropriate, or is it considered self-promotion?

My mom is a poet/fiction writer with some really stellar work published in online and print journals, as well as in her blog and chapbook. I'd love to create a post to some of her writing in the blue, but I don't want the post to be flagged as self-promotion since she is someone I obviously know IRL. (Occasionally she posts photos or prints that I have created to accompany her poems, but that is not what I plan on linking to on the Blue). Would this be appropriate, or is it something better suited for Metafilter Projects? Thanks!

posted by bloody_bonnie to Etiquette/Policy at 1:03 AM (48 comments total)

The latter.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:09 AM on June 27, 2010

This falls pretty solidly in the "definitely banned by the self-link rule, even though it's not what I'd normally consider abusive or spammy" category, I think.

See here, where it says “Don't link to friends' or family members' sites”.
posted by hattifattener at 1:46 AM on June 27, 2010

The latter, as would be plain from even a cursory perusal of the FAQ or past threads in MeTa, and were I a mod I'd delete the links here too because I'm a vindictive old grump
posted by Abiezer at 1:47 AM on June 27, 2010 [14 favorites]

a clear violation of the rules and the intent of the rules. adding the links here just makes the whole thing more suspect.
posted by nadawi at 2:06 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't even know what to say about that poem. I think this post could be brilliant, but I"m trying to figure out how bloody_bonnie could frame it - "What happens when a woman's talent is forced into a certain channel?" "What could this woman have become without this insanely horrid memory chasing her steps?" "Would she have ever written at all without this?"

I don't know, man. I'll never forget that, now that I've read it. Click on the links, people, especially the first one. (the word "really"). Caveat: I'm pretty susceptible to gross stories and whatnot. I can't even watch "Criminal Minds," because I'll have nightmares about it when I finally do fall asleep a week later.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 2:56 AM on June 27, 2010

Metafilter is capable of constructive senility. Metafilter bites when reminded though. Have you seen my car keys? Or my car? I think it was visible and mostly metal and I'm pretty sure it fits through the air when you move it fast.
posted by vapidave at 3:05 AM on June 27, 2010

and were I a mod I'd delete the links here too because I'm a vindictive old grump

Agreed. Not that you're a vindictive old grump, but that those links should be deleted because bloody_bonnie is getting eyes on her mother's site via the MetaFilter back door.

Projects is for the promotion of work by MeFites, not the parents of MeFites.
posted by crossoverman at 3:58 AM on June 27, 2010

This really is good for projects though because bloody_bonnie contributed photos or prints to some of them. So it's a joint effort: fine for projects, totally unacceptable for metafilter, and kind of over the line posting the links here.

bloody_bonnie you should email a mod about getting the links stripped out of your post here (it might be night time in mod land though?) and put something together for projects. Then if someone impartial really likes it they'll post it to the front page.
posted by shelleycat at 4:20 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is so fucking shady. Why link to her stuff if all you wanted was a clarification on the rules?
posted by special-k at 4:39 AM on June 27, 2010 [6 favorites]

I'm not throwing any stones since I live in aglass house and all, but really. Don't do this again, it's not what the gray is for.

It's not like a super awesome poem would make it ok to break this rule, which is what you seem to be suggesting. (otherwise I have to assume you couldn't be bothered to read the FAQ, and I don't want to assume that.)
posted by bilabial at 4:46 AM on June 27, 2010

I have a bad feeling about this.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:52 AM on June 27, 2010

Nice try, but no way am I clicking on those links.
posted by futureisunwritten at 5:03 AM on June 27, 2010

This is just to say

I have posted
the poems
that were in
my mom's blog

and when
mods were probably
dreaming
of breakfast

Forgive me
they were selflinkish
so tweet
for my soul
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:08 AM on June 27, 2010 [10 favorites]

I just noticed that you have also posted in projects where it clearly says "It's for significant new creations by members (not friends of yours -- ask them to sign up and post themselves please). Thanks."

You seem more devious than the average seo spammer.
posted by special-k at 5:12 AM on June 27, 2010

There's never a banhammer around when you need one.
posted by crunchland at 5:14 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, this sort of thing will get you consigned to the outer darkness, but hey, at least you didn't show up saying, "My mother's a poet, which means I know more about the subject of literature than I think you can imagine."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:25 AM on June 27, 2010 [2 favorites]

My mom is also a poet, and her feet show it.
posted by fixedgear at 5:47 AM on June 27, 2010

This is so fucking shady. Why link to her stuff if all you wanted was a clarification on the rules?

People do make mistakes, you know. I did something similar with my very first AskMe post, when I didn't understand the rules.

Bloody_bonnie, the mods will likely speak with you via memail in a little while. They may also strip out the links in this post. Until then, don't worry too much about being autobanned. They'll speak with you first and determine your intentions.
posted by zarq at 5:49 AM on June 27, 2010 [2 favorites]

Heh. I see they're already on it. :)

Links have been removed.
posted by zarq at 5:53 AM on June 27, 2010

Bloody_bonnie, the mods will likely speak with you via memail in a little while. They may also strip out the links in this post.

Now that they've mitigated damages, the email will ask you what you want for your last meal, and in true Utah fashion, allow you to choose your preferred form of execution.
posted by gman at 6:01 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Your mother is a poet,
her work is deluxe.
Welcome to Metafilter,
Your favorite mom sucks.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 6:32 AM on June 27, 2010 [8 favorites]

Just to be as clear as possible, here's what it says in the FAQ (linked by Abiezer):

It's against the rules to link to ... a site of someone who is a ... relative of yours in a MetaFilter post.

That's pretty clear.

Tangentially, I'm interested in knowing whether there's some kind of exception to the normal self-link rules for obits. In the past week I've seen at least two FPP's that were framed in first-person terms of "I knew this person and he was very important to me in my life." That would seem to violate the normal rules.
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:48 AM on June 27, 2010

I'd like to post a link to some poetry on my mother's blog on the blue. Is that appropriate, or is it considered self-promotion?

Hi, bloody_bonnie, I'm one of the mods here. The answer as folks have said is no; you'd be banned and your post removed immediately. As a Projects post it'd be okay if this is something you've had a significant creative hand in putting together, otherwise it'd be something your mom would need to get an account and post herself; Projects is for posting stuff you've made, not stuff someone you know has made.

And putting links in this thread really wasn't okay. I don't mind giving you the benefit of the doubt that it was just a poorly-considered decision, but you have to understand that it's so not how things are done here and far enough into the territory of perceived self-promotion that people thinking you're deliberately up to something aren't really out of line for having that perception. Please be a lot more cautious in the future if you've got this sort of "should I or shouldn't I" dilemma; err on the side of caution, and drop us mods a line directly via the contact form (see the bottom right of every page) to ask if you need an opinion on something that might be a violation of the site guidelines instead of just doing it.

Tangentially, I'm interested in knowing whether there's some kind of exception to the normal self-link rules for obits. In the past week I've seen at least two FPP's that were framed in first-person terms of "I knew this person and he was very important to me in my life."

It's pushing it and depends a lot on the subject and the framing of the post as to whether that's gonna stand. I'd prefer that not be part of the framing at all; the one that I remember from recently seemed more like "here is a good post about the death and work of this legitimately significant academic figure, oh and also he was my advisor at one point".

Which is better than e.g. "hey my advisor died, he liked to race dirtbikes, here's a picture of his cat". The latter's the sort of thing that's going to get deleted pretty much as a given, the former we'll take a look at and talk about it and decide if it feels like it makes sense. In that recent case, we decided to leave it but weren't excited about that angle.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:50 AM on June 27, 2010

I agree with Abiezer, he's pretty vindictive.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:57 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

And old!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:57 AM on June 27, 2010

the one that I remember from recently seemed more like "here is a good post about the death and work of this legitimately significant academic figure, oh and also he was my advisor at one point".

Here's another one from yesterday. Seems to be a regular thing.
posted by Jaltcoh at 8:01 AM on June 27, 2010

Yeah, that's another one of those not-how-I'd-prefer-it ones that is nonetheless on the legit side as far as I can tell. "Sax giant, association founder, also I knew him" vs. "hey this guy who played sax in my band died". As is it's a little problematic specifically because it pushes up against the guidelines in a way that may make people twitch a little, but ultimately I think the post itself is fine.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on June 27, 2010

There are many, many great things to post about. Many interesting and wonderful things don't get posts; this includes your mother's, no doubt wonderful, poetry.
posted by theora55 at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2010

And yet 215 pairs of underwear merits a FPP.
posted by fixedgear at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2010

With so much of that post in the first person, it's not obvious to me how it's not on the "this guy in my band died" side. Not that they were literally in a band together, but it goes beyond a cursory "btw I knew him" footnote.

I'm not complaining or saying I'd like to see it deleted -- just wondering what the standard is.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2010

With so much of that post in the first person, it's not obvious to me how it's not on the "this guy in my band died" side. Not that they were literally in a band together, but it goes beyond a cursory "btw I knew him" footnote.

And again, I think it's problematic framing because it's moving around in that territory and creates some visible muddiness about where the line is drawn. Part of the case-by-case analysis of these things is how they're received; we certainly give them gut-checks as mods when we see them, but beyond that if folks collectively seem to think it's a problem (flags, heads up emails, people expressing concerns in the thread, etc) that'll inform our decision on how to deal with it as well.

The standard is "avoid framing post as personal narratives", but it's one we're likely to be a little flexible about on occasion in cases where there are mitigating factors (the content of the post is good, there's no sketchy promotional angle, the personal narrative isn't the dominant focus of the thread, the post isn't ideologically charged, the user is a known quantity to us, etc). That said, I think the smart move in framing a post that you really want to stick around is to avoid that sort of thing entirely.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 AM on June 27, 2010

Hello? Is anyone home? I was told there would be blood, fire, pitchforks, torches and above all, shame. Sweet delicious shame!
posted by Burhanistan at 9:55 AM on June 27, 2010

Questions about tooting your mom's horn should go below the fold!!!!!

(oh wait, wrong thread)
posted by Wuggie Norple at 10:48 AM on June 27, 2010

Hey guys. Wow, I'm sorry I didn't realize that linking to things even here would be considered a no-no. I thought it might help give some context to what I want to post - she is a valid and talented writer, not just some lonely house wife with a blog. If it's inappropriate, then mods, please remove the links here. Didn't mean to step over any lines (hence the whole point of this post). Thanks for the advice folks. I'll be posting to projects shortly!
posted by bloody_bonnie at 11:30 AM on June 27, 2010

I've got some pretty cool photos of my trip to Branson last year. Can I link to those?
posted by sourwookie at 11:31 AM on June 27, 2010

Don't post it to Projects if it's not your project. Didn't you read? Gift your mom a Metafilter account and she can do it if she likes. Otherwise, don't.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:33 AM on June 27, 2010

I can't even post it to projects if it is something that we've collaborated on? I designed the cover art to her chapbook. Is that still inappropriate?
posted by bloody_bonnie at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2010

This whole thing reeks of inappropriateness.
posted by gman at 11:46 AM on June 27, 2010 [7 favorites]

Ugh, alright, I've learned my lesson. I am repentant. Is there a way to delete or close this thread or something? I really don't need more people chiding me for this. Sorry again.
posted by bloody_bonnie at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2010

In her defense, this comment makes it sound as if it's ok to post it to Projects and this comment makes it sound as if it's ok under certain circumstances.

She doesn't know. That's why she posted and asked.

I wouldn't post anything to Projects yet. Mefimail cortex or wait for further instructions from him here, bloody_bonnie.
posted by iconomy at 11:52 AM on June 27, 2010

Your mother.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:54 AM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Way to haze, internet tough guys. Way. to. haze.
posted by Ouisch at 12:10 PM on June 27, 2010 [6 favorites]

*Makes an FPP featuring my mom chiding them all for being meanie bofeenies*

Kidding aside - and speaking as a gin-yew-whine Innernet Tough Guy, if b_b has had a hand in the thing, Projects seems like a perfectly cromulent option.

Now, who wants to touch my innernet muscle? Hey, no crowding!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:27 PM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wuggie Norple: "Questions about tooting your mom's horn should go below the fold!!!!!

Eponysterical? If not, it should be.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 12:28 PM on June 27, 2010

Step away from the family member before someone gets hurt.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:36 PM on June 27, 2010

She seems pretty cool so my personal preference is for her to get her own account and party with us in person, but rock on if you want to post to projects.

(I am neither moderate nor a moderator)
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 12:37 PM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Upon rereading, I retract my pronouncement of cromulence. But I'm still tough.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2010

bloody_bonnie, I'll follow up with you via mefimail. I think the important general points have been covered here, and some of the reaction this has gotten gives a pretty clear picture of how averse the community in general is to stuff that crosses, however innocently-intentioned, the general self-promotional (or friend- or associate- or mom-promotional) line; Metatalk in particular is a bumpy place where folks tend to be kind of strident (sometimes maybe overly so) when they see someone apparently violating the community's guidelines.

Anyway, links are gone already obviously and as I said I'm fine giving you the benefit of the doubt on this whole thing. I'm happy to answer any other questions you have via mail and we can hammer out whether exactly this makes sense as a Projects submission.

Not much else needs to happen here, so I'm going to go ahead and close this up.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]