I think instead of "going to go take a walk outside" taking a break from the thread should be referred to as "go google kittens." And people should actually do it.okay
Several minutes later, in his conversation with the woman he was with, he opined apropos of nothing that it is ridiculous how we can't use the "good words" any more; that "you can't use those good little words, like nigger...or nappy...they've taken 'em away. It's a shame."
The third gentleman now stepped forth. A mighty man at cutting and drying, he was; a government officer; in his way (and in most other people's too), a professed pugilist; always in training, always with a system to force down the general throat like a bolus, always to be heard of at the bar of his little Public-office, ready to fight all England. To continue in fistic phraseology, he had a genius for coming up to the scratch, wherever and whatever it was, and proving himself an ugly customer. He would go in and damage any subject whatever with his right, follow up with his left, stop, exchange, counter, bore his opponent (he always fought All England) to the ropes, and fall upon him neatly. He was certain to knock the wind out of common sense, and render that unlucky adversary deaf to the call of time. And he had it in charge from high authority to bring about the great public-office Millennium, when Commissioners should reign upon earth.Dickens, Hard Times
It has now been
__
/ _ \
| | | |
| | | |
| |_| |
\___/
days since the last
stupid MeFi callout
I too am extraordinarily sensitive and enjoy reminding others of this fact.So now you're joining in too, with the Mister Sensitive pin? The thing is, I'm sure I've seen you on the receiving end of this. You know most people mean well. If you disagree, disagree. I'd like to think you are better than joining in with that.
Oskar Schindler: I've been speaking to Goeth.posted by tzikeh at 11:39 PM on August 27, 2010
Itzhak Stern: I know the destination. These are the evacuation orders, I'm to help arrange the shipments, put myself on the last train.
Oskar Schindler: That's not what I was going to say. I made Goeth promise to put in a good word for you. Nothing bad is going to happen to you there, you'll receive special treatment.
Itzhak Stern: The directives coming in from Berlin talk about "special treatment" more and more often. I'd like to think that's not what you mean.
Oskar Schindler: Preferential treatment. All right? Do we have to create a new language?
Itzhak Stern: I think so.
In this thread, people have taken offense to metaphorical rape, to hyperbolic mentions of retardation, as well as to the purported ableism of "lame," and to sucks, to ram/cram/jamming down throats. That things have been declared insane doesn't yet seem to have drawn criticism for stigmatizing the mentally ill, but there's no consistent reason not to decry it, save that it didn't trip anyone's personal triggers. Doesn't poor also refer to the monetarily disadvantaged? Who wants to be reminded that they're poor? Aren't the poor often referred to by idiom as broken? That there is good reason to be sensitive about the usage of anything exclusionary does not mean that attempting to turn that into a categorical imperative doesn't quickly reduce to the absurd.The hypersensitive and self-righteous, coming to take our words to give to the excluded? And I could answer the fears one by one: no, klangklangston, people were only discussing the ram/cram/jamming down throats thing... no, klangklangston, nobody says monetarily disadvantaged, and you are being absurd... no, klangklangston, it is not a categorical imperative, as people keep emphasising... and so on, and so on. And it won't matter.
In fact, it makes me say, well, you think I'm an asshole? Fuck you.because it always comes back to this. Mefites who have been raped made themselves vulnerable in a public forum so that they can imply that you are an asshole. It is, as ever, about you.
Especially when it seems that this isn't something personal, but rather dogma you ascribe to and want to rhetorically cudgel everyone else into obeying.I don't think you are an asshole, klangklangston. I am however left to wonder, if you just missed the comments from the Mefites who have been raped, as surely it was personal to them; or whether you are just cold, that you can say that with a straight face, say it isn't personal, say it is dogma.
Likewise, the idea that Metafilter should be inherently a safe space for all is a nice thing to put forth, but frankly, the argument that it's better to have that than have Louis CK here and commenting just doesn't jibe with my priorities.It is not possible, that there is a budding Louis CK, who is also vulnerable to something. It is not possible, that bilabial or bewilderbeast or some other Mefite who is just reading but has been affected by this, it is not possible that one or more of them might have something as great to offer as a Louis CK. Hermitosis mentioned upthread a story about Richard Pryor, about his vulnerability. That was always what struck me most about him, and I think a large part of why people love him so much. Vulnerability, his heart on his sleeve.
I hope you didn't read my Mel Brooks comment as if I was trying to point out that certain people wouldn't be aware of dark humour. Or use it as a defense of rape jokes on MetaFilter.Not at all ODiV, I appreciated what you meant. :)
it is the certainty of the "safe environment" people that most gets my GRAR up.You say with such certainty that "There are honest and legitimate arguments being made on both sides". Both the side that says there are honest and legitimate arguments being made on both sides and the side that says there are honest and legitimate arguments being made on one side have honest and legitimate arguments.
I understood she was sincere and wanting to engage, and started writing a reply to her, but just ran out of energy somewhere along the way. Would you like to continue the conversation, and talk about what you thought were some of her important points? I genuinely would like to understand.
Where does this come from? What kind of world view supports the notion that rape survivors and their loved ones must out themselves, relive the nightmare of it, and leave themselves vulnerable to criticism and judgment in order to be taken seriously? That they shouldn't have the support of others who have been fortunate enough to not have suffered the same? Why try to take even more away from those who have already had so much taken from them?because for me, and I think for keep it under cover, it would actually make us feel much better if we understood — because I really, genuinely don't want to feel how I feel about people right now.
Someone please explain this to me because I do not get it.
These are your words, that cast what we say in the worst possible light. 1) It was good that we saw someone who made a rape joke agree that though he clearly didn't mean harm, it was not worth it to hurt others. It didn't end, as it often does, with the poster getting entrenched and people piling on and the poster flaming out. That was a Good Thing. 2) I searched for the word "educated" in this thread, but the only matches were from you and mondaygreens. There are some (many) people that just are not going to agree. I was trying to help zarq make peace with that, because it sounded like it was getting to him. 3) vigilant — again your word, the worst, most Big-Brother-sounding word you can come up with. We never said anything like it!
1) well if we have just changed one mind, then we've done worthwhile work here
2) there are some people that just don't want to be educated
3) keep vigilant if we want to build a better world
...read as though the right-thinkers are Freedom Riders, that the morality of their position is indisputable and any who argue against them are the forces of darkness and ignorant souls that need to be brought into the light of the modern world.right-thinkers, Freedom Riders, indisputable, forces of darkness, ignorant souls, light of the modern world...
Please be aware that there are not just "turd generators", trolls, etc., that are arguing the other side here....turd generators (where are you quoting it from?) — all your words. And I'm wildly misreading? I wouldn't even think any of those things about other people. The problem isn't ignorance or needing any education. It is, to my mind, a pair of scales, on the one side of which is a rape-joke, this tiny little thing, and a small apology (that was warmly welcomed), another tiny little thing; and on the other side, it is all the hurt and pain of people who have been raped or assaulted who is affected by a joke like this. If someone had said, "I'm really sorry for what you have gone through, and I'm sorry, but I'm not sure it's realistic to hope that people would stop making jokes that might hurt you or trigger your experiences. I hope you take care." or something along those lines — that acknowledges the pain of the people who are our fellow Mefites — that I can understand. But that is not what I'm seeing. Instead it's this ever-tiresome wild misreading of what we are asking for — the slippery slope, the bland and inoffensive and oversensitive vs. humour, fun and entertainment.
Everything depends on the circumstances of the joke and the callout, but I think it's likely to go better when the callout presumes good intentions and acknowledges the appeal of edgy humor ("I know you didn't mean to hurt anyone, and I appreciate a good joke as much as anybody, but I wanted to let you know that...") than when the callout presumes the person is just being an asshole and seems to take for granted that humor is utterly unimportant compared to people's feelings. The former is likely to produce a "Sorry, I didn't realize!" response; the latter a "Fuck you and your oversensitive sensitivity."The thing is, in this case the call out was a very mild "this makes me sad" which still earned a "Fuck you and your oversensitive sensitivity" a handful of comments later. Given that, I can't really agree that the problem is that the people calling out the issue just aren't being nice enough.
posted by jabberjaw at 2:51 AM on August 27, 2010 [4 favorites]