You'll take these pleated plants from my cold, dead legs! November 21, 2010 8:05 AM   Subscribe

Others examples of antagonistic fashion AskMe threads?

This engineer raging against The Man - "But the reason I'm angry about having to change is not because of the different set of variables. It's because the set of variables is not my own. Why are we in a world where a corporation can decide minutia of people's lives such as style of shoe? It's Dickensian." The infamous fedora-guy thread (although clothing wasn't the main point of his question).

I'd like to read more examples of clothing-related questions with a strong undercurrent (or overt overcurrent) of antagonism from the person asking the question and/or a chorus of "What? How do you not see that you're doing it wrong?" in the answers. Decathecting's comment in the first thread, for example, is the kind of conversation I want to read more of -

"I think I understand why you're having such a strong reaction to the responses here. We're not talking about the same question. The question that most people are answering is 'Would wearing different shoes make my bosses more likely to hire me on full time, and if so, what kind of shoes should I be wearing?' But in fact, the question you want answered is, 'Fashion conventions are a tool that THE MAN and my wife are using to keep me down, AMIRITE?!?!?'"
posted by brozek to MetaFilter-Related at 8:05 AM (54 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

Can I ask why you're interested? If it's for the lulz, I'm not going to bother.
posted by zamboni at 8:14 AM on November 21, 2010


Yeah, um, is this just so we can all relive our favorite fighty AskMe threads?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:16 AM on November 21, 2010


I have a feeling there's not going to be a lot more than the ones you found. It's a pretty specific genre of post. The closest thing I can think of is on shows like What Not to Wear where the fashion victim gets all huffy and insists that they way they dress is fine and awesome and that everyone is just trying to make them boring and samey... until they realize how much better they look in more appropriate clothes.
posted by elpea at 8:16 AM on November 21, 2010


I want threads in which machine operators recount stories of misusing tools but show insufficient regret.
posted by argybarg at 8:21 AM on November 21, 2010 [22 favorites]


Ahem.. I'd put it to you that not really seeking antagonistic threads about fashion, but rather that you're looking for the hippest coolest threads that a man can wear. Threads that will bring you the job of your dreams, the fastest car on the block, and a Venezuelan supermodel for a wife.

I would introduce you to my brother, who is the best tailor in all Hong Kong. But I fear that he could do nothing for you until you lose some weight, gain some self esteem, and throw off the shackles of your conventional upbringing.

Come see me when you've done that, and maybe then we can talk about getting you a new suit.
posted by Ahab at 8:22 AM on November 21, 2010 [6 favorites]


Happy to elaborate - I'm involved in an ongoing in-real-life conversation that has similar dynamics, and when that kind of situation has happened before (a thread being so similar to my experience), I've found reading the threads to be really instructive and useful. In other words, not just for the lulz.
posted by brozek at 8:24 AM on November 21, 2010


Oh man I remember that sneaker thread. I'm also a programmer. I wore Nike cortezs to work for a week and a senior exec visited my cubicle every day to make fun of me till I got the message. No amount of loggicing "But all I do is sit in a cube. How will dress shoes help me program" would make it stop. Stupid Man with his making me wear dress shoes.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:31 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


There was an online dating thread where a guy wrote that he didn't approve of his dates clothes and mentioned he was wearing a "zip up turtleneck" . several posters focused on that and figured he might not be the best judge of fashion.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2010 [3 favorites]


Um, there was this MetaTalk not so long ago, which at least incorporated clothing, and antagonism of sorts. Don't know whether that qualifies.

Especially Sys Rq:
Salesman: You're in luck! We do appear to have a suit in your size!
Shopper: Is that it?
Salesman: This is it.
Shopper: Yikes!
Salesman: They really don't make them like this anymore.
Shopper: I can see why.
Salesman: No, sir, I mean to say that its quality is superior to today's garments.
Shopper: Is that so?
Salesman: Oh, quite, sir. Why, just look at this hand-stitching!
Shopper: Is that...nylon it's made out of?
Salesman: No sir, only the finest in rayon art silks.
Shopper: Rayon? Isn't that dreadfully flammable?
Salesman: Oh, heavens, yes! That's why it's so rare nowadays, you see.
Shopper: Rare?
Salesman: Indeed, sir. They've all burnt up, or been torn irreparably--Rayon's also quite prone to tearing, you see. Why, this may well be the last of its kind!

posted by Namlit at 8:36 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


Come see me when you've done that, and maybe then we can talk about getting you a new suit.

Not only have I fulfilled your stipulations, I have also symbolically sacrificed a pair of Dockers and an Old Navy polo shirt upon a suttee made of gasoline-marinated Gold Toe dress socks. When do we depart?
posted by griphus at 8:45 AM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


Shopper: Rayon? Isn't that dreadfully flammable?
Salesman: Oh, heavens, yes! That's why it's so rare nowadays, you see.


I remember a house party maybe twenty-five years ago. The guy standing next to me was a little drunk and leaned over a candle in what I'm pretty sure was a nylon shirt. The thing didn't so much erupt in flame as just gently melt. Fortunately (I guess) I had the presence of mind to tear it off him, so I don't think he got burned at all, but by the time it hit the floor, there was virtually nothing left.

And we used to make little kids pajamas out of the stuff.
posted by philip-random at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2010


This one got kinda fighty.
posted by Etrigan at 8:59 AM on November 21, 2010


The zip-up turtleneck askme.
posted by rtha at 9:00 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


Inflammable means flammable? What a country!
posted by griphus at 9:00 AM on November 21, 2010 [4 favorites]


I would introduce you to my brother, who is the best tailor in all Hong Kong. But I fear that he could do nothing for you until you lose some weight, gain some self esteem, and throw off the shackles of your conventional upbringing.

Hong Kong is now Saville Row for those too cheap to travel to Saville Row. It's the EuroDisney of clothiers.

I can get a better tailored suit of finer material in Hoi An, overnight, for the equivalent of three Canadian Loonies and a shinier-than-usual bottle-cap. This includes a four-star hotel room with complimentary mini-bar and room service while I await my new finery. With a suit like that, self esteem takes care of itself.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:01 AM on November 21, 2010 [3 favorites]


Fuck the zip-up turtleneck haters. I can and have made those look damn good. Although I did show up at my old East Village clothing shop only to have my boss look me up and down and ask me if I was "still trying to figure out what cool is."

Also, there's this thread, from the anonymous point of view of the wife. It gets into materials a bit more than actual styles though, but there's some good advice. Also, at some point someone states that "fashion is fake" which is one of my all-time favorite MeFi comments. I had never been so ontologically confounded by a statement since my mother asked me if R. Sikoryak's Dostoyevsky Comics was "real."
posted by griphus at 9:07 AM on November 21, 2010


As someone who went through three complete outfit changes a day as part of everyday life, these threads are like messages from an alien planet.
posted by The Whelk at 9:08 AM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


If you're really curious, have a play with the infodump. I had a quick search for posts in the "clothing, beauty & fashion" category with more than 70 comments - there wasn't anything notable other than posts already mentioned in this thread.
posted by zamboni at 10:18 AM on November 21, 2010


Follow up on that, btw: I never did wear black shoes with my dress clothes. Instead, after I got the raise I slowly worked back down to casual, but not as casual as originally. So now my sneakers match my (cargo) pants and polo.

PS: But I'm wearing thick, gray wool socks. For the warmth.

PPS: Nyah.
posted by DU at 11:16 AM on November 21, 2010 [3 favorites]


I wearing white pants, RIGHT NOW.
posted by nomadicink at 11:20 AM on November 21, 2010 [3 favorites]


What about the $1800 suit post? It wasn't meant to be about fashion, and it quickly degenerated.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:36 AM on November 21, 2010


There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity. This has been my opinion for almost thirty years and it is an opinion that becomes more correct with the passing of every year.

People who wear sneakers/trainers when not participating in a sporting activity are showing a lack of aesthetic decency that makes Croc and Ugg wearers seem like the offspring of Sir Norman Hartnell and, well, another Sir Norman Hartnell, but one who'd had a sex change.

In a sane world, people who wear sneakers/trainers when not participating in a sporting activity would be rounded up and sent to special camps where they would be forced to participate in sporting activity all the time, while wearing brogues. Oh, and they'd be punched to sleep every night. And sometimes at random points during the day, too.

Wait... what were we talking about again?
posted by Decani at 11:54 AM on November 21, 2010 [6 favorites]


I wearing sneakers right now, too.

And looking for a fedora.
posted by nomadicink at 11:57 AM on November 21, 2010


Wait... what were we talking about again?

It's okay, grandpa. The doctor said forgetfulness is totally normal.
posted by griphus at 11:59 AM on November 21, 2010


There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity.

I'm always embarrassed these days.

I had surgery on my foot this summer, and it turned out to be a botched job. Now, it constantly hurts for me to walk, and I wear stupid, ugly running shoes to make movement as close to painless as possible. I know it looks lame, I know it makes me look completely ridiculous, but what else am I to do? Sometimes if I'm around strangers, I find myself unconsciously limping more than I really need to, so my shoe choice seems a little less stupid.

Speaking of which, look forward to my Ask.Me about professional footwear that will hurt my feet as little as possible, to be posted sometime in the next month.
posted by meese at 12:13 PM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


My current shoes are sneakers, but not trainers. In fact, they don't even have laces. They have *apparent* lace holes, but they don't actually go all the way through. They are actually slip-ons. (I morally object to the fake-laces thing, but whatevs.)
posted by DU at 12:42 PM on November 21, 2010


I had a moment today where I was seriously considering buying a tartan bow tie
posted by The Whelk at 12:48 PM on November 21, 2010 [6 favorites]


What's a cycling sweater if not a zip-up merino wool turtleneck? And what is cooler than a cycling sweater?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:50 PM on November 21, 2010


Hey, watch it now, we call know that bow ties are cool.
posted by meese at 12:51 PM on November 21, 2010


I'm already dangerously close to everyday Who cosplaying.
posted by The Whelk at 12:53 PM on November 21, 2010 [6 favorites]


Man, wearing whatever the hell you want and not giving a shit about people who make proclamations about ironclad fashion rules feels so good. Occasionally southern ladies here where I live now who dress boring as hell (I really don't care for silk and leather and a wardrobe of nothing but neutrals, sorry) talk condescendingly/pityingly to me about how juvenile I dress, how grown ups wear make up as a rule, etc. They can suck it. (Luckily, my husband loves the way I dress and tells me all the time he loves that I don't wear make up except for fun sometimes--not that if he didn't I'd change; I've dated dudes in the past who complained about my wardrobe not being "feminine" enough and it didn't change my tune.)
posted by ifjuly at 12:55 PM on November 21, 2010 [5 favorites]


The Whelk, you say DANGER and I say AWESOME.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:18 PM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


So does this count as my first call out? Awesome!

(meese, the answer is diabetic shoes. They're meant to avoid rubbing the skin or compressing sensitive tissue and to accommodate custom insoles. Most of them are pretty ugly, but you can wear them to work, and they hurt a lot less than anything else I've found.)
posted by decathecting at 2:25 PM on November 21, 2010


I 2nd Sidhedevil. You wear that bow tie.
posted by grapesaresour at 3:24 PM on November 21, 2010


(meese, the answer is diabetic shoes. They're meant to avoid rubbing the skin or compressing sensitive tissue and to accommodate custom insoles. Most of them are pretty ugly, but you can wear them to work, and they hurt a lot less than anything else I've found.)

A couple of my former coworkers with foot issues swear by Dansko shoes for comfort, and they make a lot of really nice looking styles.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:41 PM on November 21, 2010


This has been my opinion for almost thirty years and it is an opinion that becomes more correct with the passing of every year.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:23 PM on November 21, 2010 [4 favorites]


There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity.

Are you referring exclusively to running shoes like New Balances? If so, yep.

If you're including reasonable sneakers like Chucks then you might be the only person with that belief.
posted by ripley_ at 5:05 PM on November 21, 2010 [1 favorite]


There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity.

I'll be expecting my non-athletic 6E size 7 (women) shoes to be delivered to my home address by you personally, then, once you've magicked up someone who makes them. Yes, New Balance makes super extra wide professional looking shoes. Yes, they are too narrow for me. The 4E 7.5 walking shoes I buy from them? The toes start pulling out from the sole in a month or two, less if I dare to actually walk anywhere. And don't get me started on freaking ShoeBuy and their supposedly extra-wide shoes.
posted by SMPA at 7:25 PM on November 21, 2010


There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity.

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood, sir!
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:29 PM on November 21, 2010


everyday Who cosplaying.

I call Keith!
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:31 PM on November 21, 2010 [2 favorites]


It's just really funny to me to think of people still wearing "dress clothes" to work in an effort to impress. In the age of jeans-wearing CEOs, that whole concept feels about as dated as Yahoo Serious asking where the beef is.

(Or is it just because I've lived in California for 12 years?)

posted by drjimmy11 at 8:34 PM on November 21, 2010 [3 favorites]



There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity.

And after actually reading this comment, rather then just the people quoting it, it is now rather obvious you were kidding.

posted by drjimmy11 at 8:35 PM on November 21, 2010


the offspring of Sir Norman Hartnell and, well, another Sir Norman Hartnell, but one who'd had a sex change

I would watch the hell out of this show.
posted by catlet at 5:46 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I had a moment today where I was seriously considering buying a tartan bow tie

I think Mondo would approve.
posted by malocchio at 7:19 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


> (Or is it just because I've lived in California for 12 years?)

Yes. And for "in an effort to impress" read "in an effort to keep their jobs." (I'm talking about white-collar office jobs, obviously.)
posted by languagehat at 8:04 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


(Or is it just because I've lived in California for 12 years?)

Yes. And for "in an effort to impress" read "in an effort to keep their jobs." (I'm talking about white-collar office jobs, obviously.)


Or in an effort to make themselves (myself) happy. Some of us see fashion as a creative outlet!
posted by thinkpiece at 9:58 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's not an AskMe thread, but all this talk of bow ties reminded me of this Meta thread.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:10 AM on November 22, 2010


What about the $1800 suit post? It wasn't meant to be about fashion, and it quickly degenerated.

I would stay out of that thread unless you are ready, willing and able to stand for measure.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:04 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


I can wear Danscos for like 2 hours before the top of my foot starts hurting like hell. Supposedly if you keep wearing them regularly for a little while each time you can break 'em in, but I'm not entirely sure I buy that.
posted by NoraReed at 4:21 PM on November 22, 2010


Decani: “There is no excuse for sneakers/trainers worn for any reason other than to participate in sporting activity. This has been my opinion for almost thirty years and it is an opinion that becomes more correct with the passing of every year.”

Well, staring down at my Adidas and contemplating this situation, I realize that I guess I'm okay by your rules about half the time, since I wear my dress shoes to work about as often as I wear these shoes. But I come to the awareness that I am subconsciously but quite intentionally wearing very casual shoes to work quite often, apparently as a sort of statement that I'm not going to have this well-kept, carefully engineered image. And when I consider why I might be doing this, it's pretty clear to me that the reason is because every single person I have ever met who was well-kept and carefully-dressed enough to make sure their belt matched their shoes perfectly every day was a completely unserious douchbag who cared very little about his work and a whole lot about how he looked while he was doing it.

This is one thing about going to school on the east coast that was almost intolerable to me; the weird assumption that a person with buttons on their shirt was smarter and more intelligent than someone without. I don't need that shit. We may be dirty hippies out west, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stoop to the kind of pretentious nonsense that assumes clothing to be an indication of anything other than a modest desire to cover one's nakedness. If you want people to know you're an image-obsessed prick, go get a fucking BMW.
posted by koeselitz at 10:02 AM on November 23, 2010


I was just about to post an AskMe question along the lines of winter white, is this a viable option for the fashion police.
posted by theredpen at 10:52 AM on November 23, 2010


I work somewhere where you can wear what you like as long as it doesn't have swears on it. I still make sure I'm appropriately dressed if I have to meet external contacts. It feels polite to make the effort - for me personally - even when they're in jeans. I do think clothing is another form of signal and communication, and even those who feel that to think that way is pretentious and shallow will never turn up to an interview in trainers.

One of the common threads on the shitty temp jobs I worked were pointless, school-uniform esque rules on what can and could not be worn. We had casual Friday, but only if you donated a pound to the charity of the company's choice. One of the many things I hated about school was that the colour of one's hair-bobbles or the length of one's socks was conducive to learning, and to an extent I felt like that then - if they were paying me enough to afford smart clothing, I might have less begrudgingly played along. It didn't appear to be treating people as adults and letting them use their own judgement on what was and was not appropriate.

(Is that bad grammar? Probably.)

But then i wear Converse most days as I have UK size 9 feet which complain at anything new, and I like wearing all the shades of eyeshadow I own at once, so I may be no arbiter of taste.
posted by mippy at 2:27 PM on November 23, 2010


Also - I had an ex who tucked his T-shirt into his jeans. He was a nice guy, but too busy thinking about maths to care about having dirty and ripped clothing. I used to try and pull it out of his waistband all the time to try and 'cure' him. Now he's a maths professor and probably still tucking away while wearing specs that look like my dad's.
posted by mippy at 2:35 PM on November 23, 2010


You misunderstand. Amypm wearing simply underwear is stupid and to be pitied Unless your daily wear includes ten pounds of canvas or three pounds of wool, you are setting yourself up to die of exposure when the weather turns. Be ironic with saucy buttons upon your "Stormy Kromer" cap, if you feel the wild impetuousness of your western ways upon you. Out here your sandals and your pocket-baring cut-offs and your undershirts with the slogans will get you killed, and with a cord of firewood to split for Grandmother, yet!

Lazy, plum lazy, dying with the clever undershirt instead of chopping wood.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:05 PM on November 23, 2010


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