chatfilter April 12, 2011 12:28 PM Subscribe
How is this not chat filter?
She even states she didn't think she had a question.
She even states she didn't think she had a question.
But in response to your question in-thread, she confirmed that she DOES have questions. So this callout seems premature.
posted by palomar at 12:30 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by palomar at 12:30 PM on April 12, 2011
Try harder next time.
posted by palomar at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2011 [31 favorites]
posted by palomar at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2011 [31 favorites]
Why?
posted by BeerFilter at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by BeerFilter at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2011
Plenty of people post questions that are even lesser questions than hers, they're just better at disguising it. "Has anyone ever had to have their dog spayed twice, and how did it go?" seems question enough for me.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:33 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:33 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
If you read it with any degree of charity, the question in there is "i am wondering about the reality of the cancer risk" and "i'm also wondering if finding the missing tissue is an easy thing to do". It would have been better if the OP could have phrased the original question more clearly, but to my eye that question is not even close to chatfilter, it's looking for stories from other people who've been through the experience.
Do you really not see a difference between "I'm going through [scary veterinary experience], has anyone else gone through it?" and "what's your favorite book?"
posted by Lexica at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
Do you really not see a difference between "I'm going through [scary veterinary experience], has anyone else gone through it?" and "what's your favorite book?"
posted by Lexica at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
dam it Bones I am Fool not a doctor.
has anyone gone through this?
posted by anya32 to pets & animals
sounds like a question to me.
posted by clavdivs at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
has anyone gone through this?
posted by anya32 to pets & animals
sounds like a question to me.
posted by clavdivs at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
"Hey I have anxiety about this thing - help me understand this thing better?" is Chatfilter now? Mods might as well shut down my asking capability proactively.
posted by jph at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jph at 12:35 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, to be fair, puppies are disgusting little creatures and have no place in MetaFilter.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:40 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by KokuRyu at 12:40 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sounds like we really need that flowchart.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh screw you, Chrysostom!
posted by kate blank at 12:42 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by kate blank at 12:42 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
Maybe that should be right below "Everyone needs a hug." "Did you read the flowchart?"
posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why not just email the mods instead of posting this?
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:43 PM on April 12, 2011
The only CORRECT answer is "chocolate ice cream is the best flavour".
Oh, you want some, vanilla? You want some, you tasteless little piss-pod? Yeah come and get some "brown love", you anodyne timewaster. CHOCOLATE.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, you want some, vanilla? You want some, you tasteless little piss-pod? Yeah come and get some "brown love", you anodyne timewaster. CHOCOLATE.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
The question's a bit wandery in presentation but the asker clarifies in the thread. There's answerability there, people seem to be on it, and the moving on part after the flagging really is kind of the key thing if there's not something really substantially unusual going on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you aim your head at the spacebar it hurts more.
posted by carsonb at 12:52 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 12:52 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
I saw we have the new mod weigh in on this.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:55 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by cjorgensen at 12:55 PM on April 12, 2011
And yes, I do understand that she works weekends. I am willing to wait.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:56 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by cjorgensen at 12:56 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Dear Mods,
Can we have a pony that auto-flags all of TheBones' MetaTalk threads as obnoxious?
Thaaaaaanks!
posted by phunniemee at 12:56 PM on April 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
Can we have a pony that auto-flags all of TheBones' MetaTalk threads as obnoxious?
Thaaaaaanks!
posted by phunniemee at 12:56 PM on April 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
I have a question: why would anyone be unable to move on? It's just so weird to me.
"I am SO ANGRY that this hasn't been deleted that I am going to crap in the thread and THEN post a metatalk about it."
Why? I don't get it. Although it's never happened to me, I could imagine getting upset enough that I might go look up the mod email address and ask a question that way, but like... posting in the thread? Posting a meta about it? What's the point?
posted by kavasa at 1:00 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
"I am SO ANGRY that this hasn't been deleted that I am going to crap in the thread and THEN post a metatalk about it."
Why? I don't get it. Although it's never happened to me, I could imagine getting upset enough that I might go look up the mod email address and ask a question that way, but like... posting in the thread? Posting a meta about it? What's the point?
posted by kavasa at 1:00 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
here is my over-the-years adopted method of dealing with THINGS I DON'T LIKE on metafilter and subsidiaries.
1. FAMO
2. If unable to MO, email the mods. They are helpful really.
3. Only if a) I think it is a broad informative thing I think everyone should know, or, b) I really disagree with the mods do I even consider MeTa. Usually by this time I have rationalized my way out of of doing so anyways.
part of it is, yes, how aggressive people are about you wasting precious pixels on MeTa, it really is ridiculous the vitriol sometimes. Which is great for keeping the signal to noise ratio down, but I am sure inhibits meaningful MeTa posts as well, because a lot of people are a little gun-shy about calling down the wrath of the community if the post isn't judged worthy.
posted by edgeways at 1:03 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
1. FAMO
2. If unable to MO, email the mods. They are helpful really.
3. Only if a) I think it is a broad informative thing I think everyone should know, or, b) I really disagree with the mods do I even consider MeTa. Usually by this time I have rationalized my way out of of doing so anyways.
part of it is, yes, how aggressive people are about you wasting precious pixels on MeTa, it really is ridiculous the vitriol sometimes. Which is great for keeping the signal to noise ratio down, but I am sure inhibits meaningful MeTa posts as well, because a lot of people are a little gun-shy about calling down the wrath of the community if the post isn't judged worthy.
posted by edgeways at 1:03 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
kavasa: Not necessarily saying it's the case here, but I think sometimes the source of the anger comes from having ones own question deleted.
posted by BeerFilter at 1:03 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by BeerFilter at 1:03 PM on April 12, 2011
"I am SO ANGRY that this hasn't been deleted that I am going to crap in the thread and THEN post a metatalk about it."
How is asking what the question is crapping in the thread?
posted by TheBones at 1:05 PM on April 12, 2011
How is asking what the question is crapping in the thread?
posted by TheBones at 1:05 PM on April 12, 2011
I'm looking for stories of MetaTalk things going well.
posted by dhammond at 1:07 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by dhammond at 1:07 PM on April 12, 2011
There's a procedure the OP will have to follow in the future. The OP is afraid of doing it and wants to know what this will entail. That is the OP's problem. The solution is getting more info about what the procedure is like, to set the OP's mind at ease. The OP admitted the question was a bit unclear at first, but the second comment was very helpful and represented the kind of info the OP was looking for.
I don't see how, after all that, you have a complaint about "chatfilter."
posted by John Cohen at 1:14 PM on April 12, 2011
I don't see how, after all that, you have a complaint about "chatfilter."
posted by John Cohen at 1:14 PM on April 12, 2011
This is the kind of callout that makes me reconsider participating in metafilter. They've become rampant and it's harder for me personally to deal with people who take this tone with the community.
posted by boo_radley at 1:14 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 1:14 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
How is asking what the question is crapping in the thread?
Well, "crapping" is kind of subjective so I'm going to put it more in terms of better vs. worse phrasing for a question to the asker. "I am not clear what your question is, do you mean x or y?" can be okay if it's a matter of trying to disambiguate some weird or scant wording to help the asker get the answers they're looking for, for example.
I'm not so hot on what you wrote:
Do you have a question, or do you just need reassurance?
Because it reads as less trying-to-clarify in some useful sense and more like a dismissive thing, like your implication is "you're not really asking a question, are you?". That may not have been your intent, but it's how it comes off to my eye, and it seems like it's not just me based on the response here and the flags on the comment. If it hadn't already been responded to by the asker, I'd have deleted it, but now it's kind of built into the flow of the thread, so, okay.
It's fine to wonder what's up with a question. How you manifest that as an actual prompt in the thread is pretty important, though, and a lot of the time the answer may be "don't make it a comment at all".
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:15 PM on April 12, 2011 [15 favorites]
Well, "crapping" is kind of subjective so I'm going to put it more in terms of better vs. worse phrasing for a question to the asker. "I am not clear what your question is, do you mean x or y?" can be okay if it's a matter of trying to disambiguate some weird or scant wording to help the asker get the answers they're looking for, for example.
I'm not so hot on what you wrote:
Do you have a question, or do you just need reassurance?
Because it reads as less trying-to-clarify in some useful sense and more like a dismissive thing, like your implication is "you're not really asking a question, are you?". That may not have been your intent, but it's how it comes off to my eye, and it seems like it's not just me based on the response here and the flags on the comment. If it hadn't already been responded to by the asker, I'd have deleted it, but now it's kind of built into the flow of the thread, so, okay.
It's fine to wonder what's up with a question. How you manifest that as an actual prompt in the thread is pretty important, though, and a lot of the time the answer may be "don't make it a comment at all".
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:15 PM on April 12, 2011 [15 favorites]
boo, in that case you need to retire to your mother's house for an indefinite period.
posted by tigrefacile at 1:16 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by tigrefacile at 1:16 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
How is this not chat filter? --- Look, Cortex and Jess delete stuff left and right. It's completely clear that they have no hesitation when it comes to doing it, ever. So when you flag something, and it doesn't get deleted, it doesn't mean you need to get all indignant and make a metatalk page about it. Just have another bowl or drink another drink, and fucking trust their judgement, you jackass.
posted by crunchland at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
tigrefacile: "boo, in that case you need to retire to your mother's house for an indefinite period"
Yes, quite possibly.
posted by boo_radley at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, quite possibly.
posted by boo_radley at 1:17 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I adore the flowchart. I only have one small suggestion. Instead of Metatalk! at the bottom, it should say No!
posted by winna at 1:19 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by winna at 1:19 PM on April 12, 2011
Bones - cortex answered your question in a way that I agree with. Especially considering your posting of this meta thread, it seems to me not so much that you were asking what the question is but rather that you wanted to delete the thread and, since you do not have that ability, made a dismissive comment instead.
Yay long sentences.
posted by kavasa at 1:30 PM on April 12, 2011
Yay long sentences.
posted by kavasa at 1:30 PM on April 12, 2011
And how is this callout not chatfilter itself?
"This is chatfilter, amirite, guys...please validate me!"
posted by inturnaround at 1:34 PM on April 12, 2011
"This is chatfilter, amirite, guys...please validate me!"
posted by inturnaround at 1:34 PM on April 12, 2011
Wow. That bitchflakes company must have sent out free samples with the newspapers this morning.
posted by SLC Mom at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by SLC Mom at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
I most definitely did NOT ask "What is your favorite book?". The answers to that are meaningless.
I asked, "What book have your read the most often?". Those answers mean something to those of us who bind books.
posted by Ardiril at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2011
I asked, "What book have your read the most often?". Those answers mean something to those of us who bind books.
posted by Ardiril at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2011
Flagged, couldn't move on, sorry.
I'd suggest dropping a note to the contact form next time then. We'll be happy to answer your questions and they're less labor-intensive than this sort of thread and guaranteed number of people calling you a jackass = 0.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:46 PM on April 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'd suggest dropping a note to the contact form next time then. We'll be happy to answer your questions and they're less labor-intensive than this sort of thread and guaranteed number of people calling you a jackass = 0.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:46 PM on April 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
There's a whole slew of Metafilter: taglines in this thread, that's for sure.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:10 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:10 PM on April 12, 2011
"What is MetaTalk for if not for this?"
Another branch for the flowchart.
posted by Ardiril at 2:17 PM on April 12, 2011
Another branch for the flowchart.
posted by Ardiril at 2:17 PM on April 12, 2011
I think the only mistake the OP maybe made with that question was asking for 'stories' from other Mefites. Otherwise, the question is basically: was my first bad experience with spaying par for the course, and if not, what should I expect this time?
Perfectly reasonable question, IMO.
posted by misha at 2:18 PM on April 12, 2011
Perfectly reasonable question, IMO.
posted by misha at 2:18 PM on April 12, 2011
I don't think it's the MetaTalk posts themselves that give mods a headache, so much as the arguments and hissing and spitting and so forth that inevitably break out in them. (Not to mention the relentless goofery that seems to spawn immediately in every MeTa even when somebody's asking a sincere question or wanting to have a sincere discussion, but I might be the only one getting increasingly irritated by that.)
posted by Gator at 2:19 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by Gator at 2:19 PM on April 12, 2011
I'd suggest dropping a note to the contact form next time the . . . guaranteed number of people calling you a jackass = 0.
When did that policy change?
posted by yerfatma at 2:23 PM on April 12, 2011
When did that policy change?
posted by yerfatma at 2:23 PM on April 12, 2011
I don't understand the "MetaTalk threads give mods a headache" trope.
1. Some mod pretty much always shows up in threads concerning a policy issue
2. MeTa is more lightly moderated than other parts of the site
3. Especially lately, people seem to call each other names and similar things that wouldn't be okay on other parts of the site. Things that, while technically okay here are still sort of not okay, generate flags and email
4. We are, historically, very responsive to flags and email so long-lasting high-conflict MeTa threads tend to produce more "work"
5. This is 100% AOK if the thread is about something that is important to the site, to users' understanding of the site, or in some other way
6. This is less okay if it's something that should have been handled in another way [hence the recent flow chart, we don't expect people to be psychic and know what is and is not okay, but it's worth thinking a little about what the problem is that you're solving and if the problem is "I am grouchy" as opposed to "I don't understand something" (and be honest) that is not something that MeTa is likely to make better. In fact the opposite usually happens. This is predictable.]
7. When mods show up, people ask them other questions sometimes related and sometimes not
So, these threads are not a headache per se, but some people seem to use the "Hey it's in MeTa!" excuse to say shit that isn't okay on other parts of the site. While technically okay this is often confusing to new users and old users alike. Put another way, one of the "should I ask this question in MeTa" calculation could reasonably be "Is putting additional mod time on this issue likely to help anyone?" I expect many times that answer is "Yes" but not always. I am not complaining about this, just explaining where I think those comments are coming from.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:33 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
1. Some mod pretty much always shows up in threads concerning a policy issue
2. MeTa is more lightly moderated than other parts of the site
3. Especially lately, people seem to call each other names and similar things that wouldn't be okay on other parts of the site. Things that, while technically okay here are still sort of not okay, generate flags and email
4. We are, historically, very responsive to flags and email so long-lasting high-conflict MeTa threads tend to produce more "work"
5. This is 100% AOK if the thread is about something that is important to the site, to users' understanding of the site, or in some other way
6. This is less okay if it's something that should have been handled in another way [hence the recent flow chart, we don't expect people to be psychic and know what is and is not okay, but it's worth thinking a little about what the problem is that you're solving and if the problem is "I am grouchy" as opposed to "I don't understand something" (and be honest) that is not something that MeTa is likely to make better. In fact the opposite usually happens. This is predictable.]
7. When mods show up, people ask them other questions sometimes related and sometimes not
So, these threads are not a headache per se, but some people seem to use the "Hey it's in MeTa!" excuse to say shit that isn't okay on other parts of the site. While technically okay this is often confusing to new users and old users alike. Put another way, one of the "should I ask this question in MeTa" calculation could reasonably be "Is putting additional mod time on this issue likely to help anyone?" I expect many times that answer is "Yes" but not always. I am not complaining about this, just explaining where I think those comments are coming from.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:33 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
When did that policy change?
You say something like that, I end up feeling compelled to search my mail for some time that we called someone a jackass to their face. On review, I couldn't find any, though me and Matt have both referred to spammers as jackasses during post-mortem conversations and I called one long-banned user a jackass twice in IM conversations with jessamyn, on two separate occasions eight months apart back in 2007/2008.
Aside from that, a few people have used jackass in self-reference ("Sorry, I was being a jackass", "delete this because I don't want to look like a jackass"), or in reference to others ("so and so is or is being a jackass"), or in reference to some abstract personage ("before some jackass wanders in and causes trouble").
Also, some spammer dude called me a jackass and threatened to punch me after I banned him.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
You say something like that, I end up feeling compelled to search my mail for some time that we called someone a jackass to their face. On review, I couldn't find any, though me and Matt have both referred to spammers as jackasses during post-mortem conversations and I called one long-banned user a jackass twice in IM conversations with jessamyn, on two separate occasions eight months apart back in 2007/2008.
Aside from that, a few people have used jackass in self-reference ("Sorry, I was being a jackass", "delete this because I don't want to look like a jackass"), or in reference to others ("so and so is or is being a jackass"), or in reference to some abstract personage ("before some jackass wanders in and causes trouble").
Also, some spammer dude called me a jackass and threatened to punch me after I banned him.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2011 [5 favorites]
I was drunk.
posted by BeerFilter at 2:46 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by BeerFilter at 2:46 PM on April 12, 2011
You people say jackass like it's a bad thing.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:47 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by cjorgensen at 2:47 PM on April 12, 2011
I adore the flowchart. I only have one small suggestion. Instead of Metatalk! at the bottom, it should say No!
Rather than that, there needs to be a final yes/no before MetaTalk - 'Have you gone outside and stayed there for at leat an hour since becoming outraged?', with a 'no' leading to a box instructing the user to do so.
posted by dg at 2:58 PM on April 12, 2011
Rather than that, there needs to be a final yes/no before MetaTalk - 'Have you gone outside and stayed there for at leat an hour since becoming outraged?', with a 'no' leading to a box instructing the user to do so.
posted by dg at 2:58 PM on April 12, 2011
cjorgensen: "You people say jackass like it's a bad thing"
They just didn't appeal to me. I'm not their demographic.
posted by boo_radley at 2:58 PM on April 12, 2011
They just didn't appeal to me. I'm not their demographic.
posted by boo_radley at 2:58 PM on April 12, 2011
I didn't realize jackass was an expletive. I call myself a jackass all the time. There was a television show and a movie series with the same name. What I wrote, I have said to myself dozens of times over the past couple years. But I'm sorry if I offended anyone's delicate sensibilities.
posted by crunchland at 3:02 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by crunchland at 3:02 PM on April 12, 2011
Come to think of it, I believe that the mods here are the only people I've ever encountered who haven't called me a jackass, actually.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 3:15 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 3:15 PM on April 12, 2011
crunchland: "I didn't realize jackass was an expletive. I call myself a jackass all the time. There was a television show and a movie series with the same name. What I wrote, I have said to myself dozens of times over the past couple years. But I'm sorry if I offended anyone's delicate sensibilities."
When someone makes a post in MetaTalk that you disagree with, it doesn't mean you need to get all indignant and make an angry comment about it. Just have another bowl or drink another drink....
posted by zarq at 3:16 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
When someone makes a post in MetaTalk that you disagree with, it doesn't mean you need to get all indignant and make an angry comment about it. Just have another bowl or drink another drink....
posted by zarq at 3:16 PM on April 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, I don't know about chatfilter but I do know that "Puppy's First Spay" is the name of my new album.
posted by Decani at 3:26 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Decani at 3:26 PM on April 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
3. Especially lately, people seem to call each other names and similar things that wouldn't be okay on other parts of the site. Things that, while technically okay here are still sort of not okay, generate flags and email
Why is name calling okay in MetaTalk? It just seem contrary to how we deal with one another...unless the name is like super-funny or something.
posted by 26.2 at 3:36 PM on April 12, 2011
Why is name calling okay in MetaTalk? It just seem contrary to how we deal with one another...unless the name is like super-funny or something.
posted by 26.2 at 3:36 PM on April 12, 2011
Why is name calling okay in MetaTalk?
My impression is that it's not okay, it's just not generally deleted, either.
posted by FishBike at 3:41 PM on April 12, 2011
My impression is that it's not okay, it's just not generally deleted, either.
posted by FishBike at 3:41 PM on April 12, 2011
Comments are only rarely deleted in MetaTalk. I've had the rare but "lucky" distinction of having a couple of them wiped over the years.
posted by zarq at 3:51 PM on April 12, 2011
posted by zarq at 3:51 PM on April 12, 2011
Is there any way to make the link to the contact form more visible? That has to be the reason that people are still not using it even though it's been mentioned time and again. And I know it's the first item on the "make a new MetaTalk post" page, but that's obviously not enough.
Somehow? Somewhere? Giddy-up?
posted by deborah at 4:09 PM on April 12, 2011
Somehow? Somewhere? Giddy-up?
posted by deborah at 4:09 PM on April 12, 2011
Gator, I understand your point about the relentless goofery, but when serious matters are discussed, I think most who want to talk about same just filter the silliness out. And don't forget the importance of goodnatured silliness to ease tension!
Besides which, this is the only place silliness is not only allowed but somewhat expected... and though it can seem adolescent or clique-ish, it can be very witty - and this n00b was made welcome and happily participated.
Also: the relentless goofery recently resulted in a bloody, serious debate of ice cream predilections and The Flowchart.
posted by likeso at 4:18 PM on April 12, 2011
Besides which, this is the only place silliness is not only allowed but somewhat expected... and though it can seem adolescent or clique-ish, it can be very witty - and this n00b was made welcome and happily participated.
Also: the relentless goofery recently resulted in a bloody, serious debate of ice cream predilections and The Flowchart.
posted by likeso at 4:18 PM on April 12, 2011
The flowchart is badass.
I walked into the grey a couple years ago and forgot to switch my flamethrower's safety to 'ON.' I was scared to come back until recently. ...actually, I'm still scared! Too scared to risk joking about it just yet. (*breathes into a paper bag while looking at a picture of a kitten)
Okay, that's joking baby steps, I suppose.
Also, the way I pronounce "MeTa" rhymes with "Hee Haw."
posted by herbplarfegan at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2011
I walked into the grey a couple years ago and forgot to switch my flamethrower's safety to 'ON.' I was scared to come back until recently. ...actually, I'm still scared! Too scared to risk joking about it just yet. (*breathes into a paper bag while looking at a picture of a kitten)
Okay, that's joking baby steps, I suppose.
Also, the way I pronounce "MeTa" rhymes with "Hee Haw."
posted by herbplarfegan at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2011
Huh. I say "may-tuh". Probably because I only talk about the site to folks who don't speak English...
[NOT LINGUIST]
posted by likeso at 4:49 PM on April 12, 2011
[NOT LINGUIST]
posted by likeso at 4:49 PM on April 12, 2011
I can't pronounce MeTa like I do the "Meta-" in "Metafilter"-- which rhymes with "feta"-- because it sounds like an abbreviation for "Metafilter," and I hear invisible people saying "--you mean, as in '-filter'? Are you going to say '-filter,' now? ... There's still time! What are you saying?"
Then again, I've never said "MeTa" aloud.
posted by herbplarfegan at 5:00 PM on April 12, 2011
Then again, I've never said "MeTa" aloud.
posted by herbplarfegan at 5:00 PM on April 12, 2011
Ooh.. I like "May tuh." Like Beta or Data.
Okay-- I'm officially hanging up the "Hee Haw" approach.
posted by herbplarfegan at 5:02 PM on April 12, 2011
Okay-- I'm officially hanging up the "Hee Haw" approach.
posted by herbplarfegan at 5:02 PM on April 12, 2011
Welcome! And yeah, there's a peg free over there - next to the chaps and the spurs. Nope, dunno whose those are...
posted by likeso at 5:06 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by likeso at 5:06 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh! Um...er... (blush)
Very impressive, Mr. Burhanistan, sir.
posted by likeso at 6:14 PM on April 12, 2011
Very impressive, Mr. Burhanistan, sir.
posted by likeso at 6:14 PM on April 12, 2011
When the OP of the AskMe says:
i didn't know if i had a question, TheBones, but grounded's reponse made me realize i am wondering about the reality of the cancer risk.
That pretty much says to me the post as posted was chatfilter. To post an AskMe without even knowing your question? What else could it possibly be? However, since grounded asked her question for her, and she agreed, essentially "oh, I guess that's my question", I can see why it stayed.
Yes, I know I'm late to this party. Usually am.
posted by owtytrof at 7:31 PM on April 12, 2011
i didn't know if i had a question, TheBones, but grounded's reponse made me realize i am wondering about the reality of the cancer risk.
That pretty much says to me the post as posted was chatfilter. To post an AskMe without even knowing your question? What else could it possibly be? However, since grounded asked her question for her, and she agreed, essentially "oh, I guess that's my question", I can see why it stayed.
Yes, I know I'm late to this party. Usually am.
posted by owtytrof at 7:31 PM on April 12, 2011
Is there any way to make the link to the contact form more visible?
class="blink" ?
There's also an ajaxy solution that I saw that'd make it blink.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:14 PM on April 12, 2011
class="blink" ?
There's also an ajaxy solution that I saw that'd make it blink.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:14 PM on April 12, 2011
4. We are, historically, very responsive to flags and email so long-lasting high-conflict MeTa threads tend to produce more "work"
Seriously, this is 101% true. A FEW times I have had questions like "wtf with that thread" or "why was this deleted" and I've gotten a response in 20 minutes or less, using the contact form. For reals, people, the mods are teh awesome, and they will answer your questions in good faith if you use the form, and no one will call you a jackass, or post recipes, or Crossfit routines, or Paleo tips. Reals.
posted by sweetkid at 11:19 PM on April 12, 2011
Seriously, this is 101% true. A FEW times I have had questions like "wtf with that thread" or "why was this deleted" and I've gotten a response in 20 minutes or less, using the contact form. For reals, people, the mods are teh awesome, and they will answer your questions in good faith if you use the form, and no one will call you a jackass, or post recipes, or Crossfit routines, or Paleo tips. Reals.
posted by sweetkid at 11:19 PM on April 12, 2011
The poster was worried about the second surgery and the poster was worried about cancer risks.
The poster wanted to hear from people who have had the experience of needing a second spay for their dogs. Why? Idle curiosity? Or because it might answer her concerns about increased risk for breast cancer when spaying after first heat, and how intrusive/serious this second surgery might be. His/her only crime was using the word "stories" (instead of experiences?) and saying they wanted to hear about "things going well."
Well, I suppose most people who post questions about scary procedures are really hoping for something that will reassure them even if they say "how worried should I be?" or "how serious is this?" This poster was explicit in saying they hoped for reassurance, so the post should be deleted?
The poster wanted to learn more, and the answers were very helpful, including clarifying the statistical risk increase and specific advice about dealing with the surgery, as well as some reporting of experienced good outcomes.
Also, when wondering about "chatfilter," wouldn't the name imply topics that people might just hang out bullshitting about (best pizza topping EVAR?) instead of very specific medical procedures and possible outcomes? Are people going to hang out at the water cooler chit-chatting about the need for second spays and the increased risk of canine breast cancer as a form of casual entertainment?
posted by taz at 2:18 AM on April 13, 2011
The poster wanted to hear from people who have had the experience of needing a second spay for their dogs. Why? Idle curiosity? Or because it might answer her concerns about increased risk for breast cancer when spaying after first heat, and how intrusive/serious this second surgery might be. His/her only crime was using the word "stories" (instead of experiences?) and saying they wanted to hear about "things going well."
Well, I suppose most people who post questions about scary procedures are really hoping for something that will reassure them even if they say "how worried should I be?" or "how serious is this?" This poster was explicit in saying they hoped for reassurance, so the post should be deleted?
The poster wanted to learn more, and the answers were very helpful, including clarifying the statistical risk increase and specific advice about dealing with the surgery, as well as some reporting of experienced good outcomes.
Also, when wondering about "chatfilter," wouldn't the name imply topics that people might just hang out bullshitting about (best pizza topping EVAR?) instead of very specific medical procedures and possible outcomes? Are people going to hang out at the water cooler chit-chatting about the need for second spays and the increased risk of canine breast cancer as a form of casual entertainment?
posted by taz at 2:18 AM on April 13, 2011
Yes. But I work for a college of veterinary medicine. This would be veterinary chatfilter for people within the field talking with each other. After about ten minutes of back and forth about hypotheticals and numbers with no one citing sources, I usually excuse myself for another drink. So there are situations in which this exact sort of situation with the information provided can lead to a chatty, NEVER-ENDING and unresolvable conversation. If I understand TheBones correctly, he has probably been around veterinary chatfilter on more than one occasion. This shapes people's context for what they consider chat. It has shaped mine.
On the other hand, something like this from a client (which is more similar to the actual AskMe) is an excellent example of a non-question-that-really-contains-a-question that veterinarians and vet techs deal with frequently. It takes some practicing to sort and filter information and learning how to ask good follow-ups to clarify the client's meaning in order to hear the question(s) that are in the block of information.
The point is that I do understand where TheBones was coming from, because there are scenarios in which this would be water cooler chat. It's simply that not very many people have that experience or context, and therefore would be more likely to see it from the client-side view of a distressed person worried about her pet and not yet able to articulate her questions and concerns perfectly, probably due to the distress.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 4:53 AM on April 13, 2011
On the other hand, something like this from a client (which is more similar to the actual AskMe) is an excellent example of a non-question-that-really-contains-a-question that veterinarians and vet techs deal with frequently. It takes some practicing to sort and filter information and learning how to ask good follow-ups to clarify the client's meaning in order to hear the question(s) that are in the block of information.
The point is that I do understand where TheBones was coming from, because there are scenarios in which this would be water cooler chat. It's simply that not very many people have that experience or context, and therefore would be more likely to see it from the client-side view of a distressed person worried about her pet and not yet able to articulate her questions and concerns perfectly, probably due to the distress.
posted by Uniformitarianism Now! at 4:53 AM on April 13, 2011
Well, yeah... I guess a question about how to get the best airfare to a particular destination would be water cooler chat in a travel agency, but that doesn't mean a question about airfare prices should be deleted.
These are the guidelines for questions that don't belong in Ask Metafilter:
- If your question is regarding MetaFilter, MetaTalk, or Ask MetaFilter, please post it to MetaTalk.
- Open-ended chatty questions that don't offer a problem to be solved.
- Hypothetical or jokey "What would happen if" questions with no goal.
- Questions that are thinly veiled rants about specific bands, industries, websites or people, like "What's the deal with U2, do they suck or what?"
- Questions asking for very specific personal information about other people.
- Questions that needlessly self-link - if you need to include a link to illustrate your point, that's fine.
- Questions that are not solving problems but instead looking for interview subjects or people in specific geographic locations to do favors.
- Please avoid "help me name my kitten/computer/website" and "help me make a mix CD" questions.
Of these, the likely culprit of the charge here is "Open-ended chatty questions that don't offer a problem to be solved." Let's break it down:
Is it "open-ended"? No, I don't think so. People who have had experience with something like this can answer about how it turned out, what they learned, and offer advice based on their experience. We have tons of questions that get the exact same category of answers. Can answerers give an absolute resolution about what will happen and how it will turn out? No. and also "no" for the vast majority of questions asked on the site.
Is it chatty? If you aren't involved in Veterinary medicine, probably not. It probably has to do with a real situation you are dealing with and have concerns about.
Does it offer a problem to be solved? The questioner wants to know more about the danger and risks. Even if the questioner didn't articulate that he/she wanted to know specifically about how dangerous this kind of exploratory second surgery is, or what precisely the increased risk is for their dog developing breast cancer because the first spay didn't take, these are exactly the concerns voiced in the question. The questioner did ask for reassuring input, so maybe this is the criminal part of the question.
Ultimately, the poster learned helpful information. So did I. My dog wasn't spayed before her first heat (before we got her). I don't even know her exact age, or how many heats she had before spaying. Now I know to pay extra attention regarding breast cancer. I also now know, if it ever comes up, what to tell someone if they wonder what the hell is going on because their dog was spayed, but seems like she's going into heat.
So, if the answers were valuable to the poster, and the answers were illuminating to readers, why the hell should this post have been deleted? (Not directed toward you, Uniformitarianism Now). Just because it wasn't stated in some sort of form-perfect way? It seems like weird, anal, dogmatic ruleskeeping.
posted by taz at 6:59 AM on April 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
These are the guidelines for questions that don't belong in Ask Metafilter:
- If your question is regarding MetaFilter, MetaTalk, or Ask MetaFilter, please post it to MetaTalk.
- Open-ended chatty questions that don't offer a problem to be solved.
- Hypothetical or jokey "What would happen if" questions with no goal.
- Questions that are thinly veiled rants about specific bands, industries, websites or people, like "What's the deal with U2, do they suck or what?"
- Questions asking for very specific personal information about other people.
- Questions that needlessly self-link - if you need to include a link to illustrate your point, that's fine.
- Questions that are not solving problems but instead looking for interview subjects or people in specific geographic locations to do favors.
- Please avoid "help me name my kitten/computer/website" and "help me make a mix CD" questions.
Of these, the likely culprit of the charge here is "Open-ended chatty questions that don't offer a problem to be solved." Let's break it down:
Is it "open-ended"? No, I don't think so. People who have had experience with something like this can answer about how it turned out, what they learned, and offer advice based on their experience. We have tons of questions that get the exact same category of answers. Can answerers give an absolute resolution about what will happen and how it will turn out? No. and also "no" for the vast majority of questions asked on the site.
Is it chatty? If you aren't involved in Veterinary medicine, probably not. It probably has to do with a real situation you are dealing with and have concerns about.
Does it offer a problem to be solved? The questioner wants to know more about the danger and risks. Even if the questioner didn't articulate that he/she wanted to know specifically about how dangerous this kind of exploratory second surgery is, or what precisely the increased risk is for their dog developing breast cancer because the first spay didn't take, these are exactly the concerns voiced in the question. The questioner did ask for reassuring input, so maybe this is the criminal part of the question.
Ultimately, the poster learned helpful information. So did I. My dog wasn't spayed before her first heat (before we got her). I don't even know her exact age, or how many heats she had before spaying. Now I know to pay extra attention regarding breast cancer. I also now know, if it ever comes up, what to tell someone if they wonder what the hell is going on because their dog was spayed, but seems like she's going into heat.
So, if the answers were valuable to the poster, and the answers were illuminating to readers, why the hell should this post have been deleted? (Not directed toward you, Uniformitarianism Now). Just because it wasn't stated in some sort of form-perfect way? It seems like weird, anal, dogmatic ruleskeeping.
posted by taz at 6:59 AM on April 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
Or weird, anal, rules-matic dogkeeping.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 8:39 AM on April 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 8:39 AM on April 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
So now it's cool to take a verbal dump in AskMe and let the responders suss out your question because you're stressed? The OP said they didn't know what their question was at the time of posting.
I have no... erm... dog in this fight, so to speak, but if we're no longer even required to know what our question is before posting, the quality and utility of AskMe is going to take a nosedive.
I'll reiterate that I see why the... post... was allowed to stand. I just don't think it's a good minimum standard. I also don't run this site.
posted by owtytrof at 9:03 AM on April 13, 2011
I have no... erm... dog in this fight, so to speak, but if we're no longer even required to know what our question is before posting, the quality and utility of AskMe is going to take a nosedive.
I'll reiterate that I see why the... post... was allowed to stand. I just don't think it's a good minimum standard. I also don't run this site.
posted by owtytrof at 9:03 AM on April 13, 2011
Verbal dump? Wow.
Why not save the insulting... comments... until there is some indication that the quality and utility of AskMe is nosediving – and for some reason the moderators don't seem to notice and/or lose their ability to parse which questions to leave and which to delete?
This complaint has been addressed by mods here, so obviously, after 80+ comments, they still don't think it should be deleted. You're going to have to go over their heads at this point, and perhaps put yourself forward as the kind of person who will crack down on this shocking verbal dumping trend that is in danger of sending Ask Metafilter spiraling into a nosedive.
I would never participate here if moderators were so mindlessly rule-bound and inflexible.
posted by taz at 9:29 AM on April 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Why not save the insulting... comments... until there is some indication that the quality and utility of AskMe is nosediving – and for some reason the moderators don't seem to notice and/or lose their ability to parse which questions to leave and which to delete?
This complaint has been addressed by mods here, so obviously, after 80+ comments, they still don't think it should be deleted. You're going to have to go over their heads at this point, and perhaps put yourself forward as the kind of person who will crack down on this shocking verbal dumping trend that is in danger of sending Ask Metafilter spiraling into a nosedive.
I would never participate here if moderators were so mindlessly rule-bound and inflexible.
posted by taz at 9:29 AM on April 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Why would I go over their heads? I'm not asking for the post to be deleted; I'm pointing out that the poster herself said that she didn't have a question when she made the post. In the context of AskMe, that's a verbal dump.
I'm also glad the mods are not mindlessly rule-bound and inflexible, so at least we can agree on something.
posted by owtytrof at 9:56 AM on April 13, 2011
I'm also glad the mods are not mindlessly rule-bound and inflexible, so at least we can agree on something.
posted by owtytrof at 9:56 AM on April 13, 2011
the poster herself said that she didn't have a question when she made the post.
And she clarified that point later by the time we'd seen the thread. Usually we're sticklers for the "question must have an obvious question" point but "Has anyone been through this" is a question, though not really an okay one for AskMe. But, she clarified and then we were fine.
We'd really people were in a decent frame of mind when they asked their questions but realistically they often aren't so we try to muddle along as best we can. Everyone's patience is appreciated.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:23 AM on April 13, 2011
And she clarified that point later by the time we'd seen the thread. Usually we're sticklers for the "question must have an obvious question" point but "Has anyone been through this" is a question, though not really an okay one for AskMe. But, she clarified and then we were fine.
We'd really people were in a decent frame of mind when they asked their questions but realistically they often aren't so we try to muddle along as best we can. Everyone's patience is appreciated.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:23 AM on April 13, 2011
Flag It And Move On. It's a very good system; it works well.
posted by theora55 at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2011
posted by theora55 at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2011
good god, "verbal dump". that's a nicely reductive way to look at other people's issues.
posted by palomar at 11:21 AM on April 13, 2011
posted by palomar at 11:21 AM on April 13, 2011
Okay, so "dump" was a bad word choice, and I apologize for using it. It wasn't describing her issue, though; it was describing her AskMe post. I also didn't intend "dump" to mean "poo" if you read it that way.
Her issue was totally valid, her post could have been better, and as a dog owner I can empathize with the concern about a pet undergoing surgery. Anything else I have to say at this point would just be repeating myself or jessamyn, so I think I'll just step away from the thread.
posted by owtytrof at 11:39 AM on April 13, 2011
Her issue was totally valid, her post could have been better, and as a dog owner I can empathize with the concern about a pet undergoing surgery. Anything else I have to say at this point would just be repeating myself or jessamyn, so I think I'll just step away from the thread.
posted by owtytrof at 11:39 AM on April 13, 2011
Just for your future conversational framing choices, "take a dump" pretty much always refers to poo. Even if you insert another word in between "a" and "dump," it basically means shitting. If you don't intend "dump" to mean "poo," don't put "take a" in front of it. Because everyone is going to read "take a dump" as referring to poo.
It's not something that only a few people will somehow twist around in order to read ugly, feces-related intonations into. Go ahead and ask anyone you know or don't know what "take a dump" means.
posted by taz at 1:07 PM on April 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's not something that only a few people will somehow twist around in order to read ugly, feces-related intonations into. Go ahead and ask anyone you know or don't know what "take a dump" means.
posted by taz at 1:07 PM on April 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
I guess cortex needs to reconsider the whole "infodump" concept then.
posted by crunchland at 9:07 PM on April 13, 2011
posted by crunchland at 9:07 PM on April 13, 2011
No, no, every weekend in the wee hours my perl scripts take a series of massive infodumps. It is the sort of monumental, straining exercise that is best done in the privacy of that low traffic moment when Late Saturday is turning into Early Sunday and no one else will be needing the room anyway.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:59 PM on April 13, 2011
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:59 PM on April 13, 2011
Metafilter Weekend Edition: cortex takes a massive infodump
sorry, owtytrof; you apologized for "dump," and I didn't need to pursue it.
posted by taz at 1:16 AM on April 14, 2011
sorry, owtytrof; you apologized for "dump," and I didn't need to pursue it.
posted by taz at 1:16 AM on April 14, 2011
I didn't realize jackass was an expletive. I call myself a jackass all the time.
Great minds think alike.
posted by y2karl at 9:39 AM on April 15, 2011
Great minds think alike.
posted by y2karl at 9:39 AM on April 15, 2011
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posted by NoraReed at 12:30 PM on April 12, 2011 [1 favorite]