What is mefi etiquette, anyway? April 29, 2011 11:56 AM Subscribe
Why was my comment deleted?
I posted the below comment in this thread talking about my experiences with animal empathy, and it was deleted. I find my comments are deleted with some frequency and I don't get it. In this particular case, I was directly responding to the question that was asked with my opinion and relevant facts to back it up, while avoiding the gory details. What I had to say wasn't pretty, per se, but I don't know how to make animal torture or neglect more palatable. I'm not even sure that something so awful should be made more palatable.
I spend a lot of time carefully writing and rewriting what I want to say, and while I am completely in love with metafilter, I am starting to feel rather discouraged from joining in on conversations because my efforts are often erased after I post them.
---
I suspect empathy for animals is very much an middle/upper class thing in the US. I see more horribly neglected and abused animals than I do people.
I've lived in a lot of poor rural and urban locations and their relationships with animals were horrifying at times. My neighbors, for example, had their beautiful husky tied up outside on a 6 foot chain on a stake with a too-small doghouse in Michigan in the 90 degree heat day after day, sometimes with no water. I'd have to go out with the hose and give her some. She'd whine and whine, all she wanted was the company of people and her owner didn't care. Some unknown neighbor used to shoot cats with a hunting bow when I was a kid. I watched my cousins torture frogs by throwing them into a campfire and laughing as they burned. A high school classmate described how he used to keep track of the animals he was able to kill while driving.
Yeah, it was fucked up.
I posted the below comment in this thread talking about my experiences with animal empathy, and it was deleted. I find my comments are deleted with some frequency and I don't get it. In this particular case, I was directly responding to the question that was asked with my opinion and relevant facts to back it up, while avoiding the gory details. What I had to say wasn't pretty, per se, but I don't know how to make animal torture or neglect more palatable. I'm not even sure that something so awful should be made more palatable.
I spend a lot of time carefully writing and rewriting what I want to say, and while I am completely in love with metafilter, I am starting to feel rather discouraged from joining in on conversations because my efforts are often erased after I post them.
---
I suspect empathy for animals is very much an middle/upper class thing in the US. I see more horribly neglected and abused animals than I do people.
I've lived in a lot of poor rural and urban locations and their relationships with animals were horrifying at times. My neighbors, for example, had their beautiful husky tied up outside on a 6 foot chain on a stake with a too-small doghouse in Michigan in the 90 degree heat day after day, sometimes with no water. I'd have to go out with the hose and give her some. She'd whine and whine, all she wanted was the company of people and her owner didn't care. Some unknown neighbor used to shoot cats with a hunting bow when I was a kid. I watched my cousins torture frogs by throwing them into a campfire and laughing as they burned. A high school classmate described how he used to keep track of the animals he was able to kill while driving.
Yeah, it was fucked up.
Your response didn't answer the question. AskMe is less of a "conversation" than the blue, so responses that don't answer the question are generally deleted.
That's probably why it was deleted. You can also use the contact form to as the mods this question directly.
posted by runningwithscissors at 12:00 PM on April 29, 2011
That's probably why it was deleted. You can also use the contact form to as the mods this question directly.
posted by runningwithscissors at 12:00 PM on April 29, 2011
mudpuppie: " The question that you did not answer was "Are there any psychologists out there who know why we are able to generate so much empathy for animals but not for humans?""
Well, to be fair there were multiple questions asked in the question:
1) Are there any psychologists out there who know why we are able to generate so much empathy for animals but not for humans?
2) Is it some sort of self-defense survival mechanism and/or is it a product of my culture?
3) Or is it just that I am assaulted with so many more stories human misery that it has made me indifferent?
The comment that zug made could be an answer to the second question: "Is it a product of my culture?"
posted by zarq at 12:02 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, to be fair there were multiple questions asked in the question:
1) Are there any psychologists out there who know why we are able to generate so much empathy for animals but not for humans?
2) Is it some sort of self-defense survival mechanism and/or is it a product of my culture?
3) Or is it just that I am assaulted with so many more stories human misery that it has made me indifferent?
The comment that zug made could be an answer to the second question: "Is it a product of my culture?"
posted by zarq at 12:02 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
There are a couple of other comments in the thread that don't answer the question any more than zug's did.
Just sayin'.
posted by phunniemee at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
Just sayin'.
posted by phunniemee at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
Was anyone else wondering whose birthday announcement this was going to be?
I am sadly disappointed.
posted by desjardins at 12:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
I am sadly disappointed.
posted by desjardins at 12:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
We try to keep askme pretty much on-topic; one of the implications of that is that a personal anecdote related somehow to the topic of the question isn't always really an answer to the question, and that was the thing here. Not that your anecdote isn't in the neighborhood of the subject of empathic responses to animals, but that they seem to be more asking about the psychological theory behind that, not for stories about said reactions.
For what it's worth, you've had six comments deleted total, two of which were references to typos and another two of which were sort of paradoxically unhelpful in-thread assertions that someone was googleable from their profile details (better to drop them a line via email/mefimail if you want to give them a heads up without encouraging other people to go looking), and one other that was asking for a clarification that was in the more inside of the question already.
If you're ever curious about a deletion, you're welcome to hit us up at the contact form (see the lower right of every page) and we can chat about it. It's okay to ask in Metatalk too, but it's often a bumpier or louder conversation that way. We don't want you to feel excluded from the site because of the deletion, but there's always a balance between the individual perspective thing on askme and the utility of answering the question that was asked, and this is just one of those situations where the needled was too far toward the former instead of the latter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, you've had six comments deleted total, two of which were references to typos and another two of which were sort of paradoxically unhelpful in-thread assertions that someone was googleable from their profile details (better to drop them a line via email/mefimail if you want to give them a heads up without encouraging other people to go looking), and one other that was asking for a clarification that was in the more inside of the question already.
If you're ever curious about a deletion, you're welcome to hit us up at the contact form (see the lower right of every page) and we can chat about it. It's okay to ask in Metatalk too, but it's often a bumpier or louder conversation that way. We don't want you to feel excluded from the site because of the deletion, but there's always a balance between the individual perspective thing on askme and the utility of answering the question that was asked, and this is just one of those situations where the needled was too far toward the former instead of the latter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Showing up in a thread that is asking about the psychological background of empathy for animals vs humans with anecdotal stories of animal abuse is sort of straddling the line between a non-answer and a general derail. I'm explaining that as a way to let you know how it wound up on our radar in the first place, and why people may have flagged it. I looked at it, went away for a bit, came back and it still seemed, after a few more people had answered, that it was sort of standing out there as "well here is MY opinion about the topic" comment when the original question was asking much more for a comparison of animal/human abuse issues which wasn't a part of your answer.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:12 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:12 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, once you know why it was deleted, it's usually fine to rewrite it, based on the new information, and repost the comment.
Metafilter isn't harsh and is very forgiving. As long as you don't share those photos with anyone else.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:33 PM on April 29, 2011
Metafilter isn't harsh and is very forgiving. As long as you don't share those photos with anyone else.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:33 PM on April 29, 2011
goddamnit Brandon, you had to go and bring THAT up again...
posted by desjardins at 12:35 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by desjardins at 12:35 PM on April 29, 2011
This whole thing really burns my frog.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:50 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:50 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
I spend a lot of time carefully writing and rewriting what I want to say, and while I am completely in love with metafilter, I am starting to feel rather discouraged from joining in on conversations because my efforts are often erased after I post them.
I think I see the problem -- you weren't actually in "Metafilter." You were in AskMetafilter. It's a bit different --
* Metafilter is for conversations.
* AskMetafilter is for answering questions.
If there was a Metafilter post on this issue, I bet your comment would have gone over just fine. However, since you were on AskMetafilter, the rules were different, and it didn't fit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:59 PM on April 29, 2011
I think I see the problem -- you weren't actually in "Metafilter." You were in AskMetafilter. It's a bit different --
* Metafilter is for conversations.
* AskMetafilter is for answering questions.
If there was a Metafilter post on this issue, I bet your comment would have gone over just fine. However, since you were on AskMetafilter, the rules were different, and it didn't fit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:59 PM on April 29, 2011
I see more horribly neglected and abused animals than I do people.
Hopefully, this thread will change that. It won't do anything to stop animal abuse, but we still might find a way to even out the ratio.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:05 PM on April 29, 2011
Hopefully, this thread will change that. It won't do anything to stop animal abuse, but we still might find a way to even out the ratio.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:05 PM on April 29, 2011
Wow. I knew I was tired, but reading that back, it's a pretty rude and tonedeaf comment. Sorry, folks. Wasn't really trying to be an asshole (this time).
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:12 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:12 PM on April 29, 2011
It won't do anything to stop animal abuse, but we still might find a way to even out the ratio.
There's a Metafilter group on Fetlife.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:15 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a Metafilter group on Fetlife.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:15 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
goddamnit Brandon, now my coworkers want to know what I was laughing at.
posted by desjardins at 1:26 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 1:26 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh, I guess you've seen the photos too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:28 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:28 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Over-aggressive moderating, in my view. The deleted answer was relevant to at least one facet of that broadly stated question. But, this probably is only salient for me because it stands in contrast to the exceptional job the mods do around here on an ongoing basis.
posted by found missing at 1:39 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by found missing at 1:39 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, to be fair there were multiple questions asked in the question:
Not only that, there's a fourth one in the title.
If there's a problem here, I suggest it's "unfocused question."
posted by Miko at 1:48 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not only that, there's a fourth one in the title.
If there's a problem here, I suggest it's "unfocused question."
posted by Miko at 1:48 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Miko: " Not only that, there's a fourth one in the title."
"I want more empathy"?
posted by zarq at 1:52 PM on April 29, 2011
"I want more empathy"?
posted by zarq at 1:52 PM on April 29, 2011
Even if it was a shaky deletion (not saying it was), we have to accept the risk that our comments may or may not make the cut not through any personal vendetta, but through the process of moderating a huge-ass site.
Zug -- you've been around for a bit longer than me, but haven't participated as much. As I increased my participation gradually over that last year or so, I started to get the feel of the site a lot more and either don't have or don't notice my comments being deleted nearly as much as when I was first starting.
posted by Think_Long at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2011
Zug -- you've been around for a bit longer than me, but haven't participated as much. As I increased my participation gradually over that last year or so, I started to get the feel of the site a lot more and either don't have or don't notice my comments being deleted nearly as much as when I was first starting.
posted by Think_Long at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2011
I think the only logical interpretation of this in the context of the question and the subquestions you identified is:
"I want more empathy" = "How do I become more empathetic?" or "Why am I not more empathetic?"
posted by Miko at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2011
"I want more empathy" = "How do I become more empathetic?" or "Why am I not more empathetic?"
posted by Miko at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2011
Over-aggressive moderating, in my view.
We could use more of this.
I can say I seldom disagree with what goes away (whether comment or thread). When I am surprised it is by what makes it by.
When things are a judgement call you have to trust the people making those calls.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
We could use more of this.
I can say I seldom disagree with what goes away (whether comment or thread). When I am surprised it is by what makes it by.
When things are a judgement call you have to trust the people making those calls.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Like, "I want more empathy" is the foundation for the followup questions about why the person has more empathy for animals than humans, and seems to be the ultimate purpose for the use of the answers. That's how I read it anyway.
posted by Miko at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by Miko at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2011
When I am surprised it is by what makes it by.
Now, I'm curious. What is surprising you in terms of lax moderation here?
posted by found missing at 2:00 PM on April 29, 2011
Now, I'm curious. What is surprising you in terms of lax moderation here?
posted by found missing at 2:00 PM on April 29, 2011
I know if I were an askme mod I would probably have a much heavier and more prejudiced hand than jessamyn. However, that would require me to improve the caliber of my own posts, and that would suck. so . . no thanks.
posted by Think_Long at 2:14 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by Think_Long at 2:14 PM on April 29, 2011
I know if I were an askme mod I would probably
In my daze of exhaustion, I read that as "I know if I were an askme I would probably..." which lead me to ask myself, "if I were an askme, what kind of an askme would I be?"
Although the answer would no doubt be DTMFA, the question would probably be "Should I eat this?" Or something.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:22 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
In my daze of exhaustion, I read that as "I know if I were an askme I would probably..." which lead me to ask myself, "if I were an askme, what kind of an askme would I be?"
Although the answer would no doubt be DTMFA, the question would probably be "Should I eat this?" Or something.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:22 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Should I eat this motherfucker?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:25 PM on April 29, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:25 PM on April 29, 2011 [6 favorites]
For what it's worth, you've had six comments deleted total, two of which were ...
Wait, you can still see deleted comments?
[gathers collar around throat, glances about for inconspicuous cameras]
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2011
Wait, you can still see deleted comments?
[gathers collar around throat, glances about for inconspicuous cameras]
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2011
Cortex sees dead comments.
posted by joost de vries at 2:31 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by joost de vries at 2:31 PM on April 29, 2011
Terminal Verbosity was dead the whole time. Also chatty.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:33 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:33 PM on April 29, 2011
In my opinion, moderation (i.e., deletion) should be approached with the attitude that any deletion is a tragedy, an evil engaged in only when it's the lesser evil.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 2:39 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Crabby Appleton at 2:39 PM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
As zarq caught, i was attempting to address the cultural question, i.e. "is it a product of my culture?". The mod consensus seems to be that I should have picked up that that wasn't a sufficient answer to the 'primary' question and therefore I shouldn't have commented. Ok.
I imagine that the moderation around here (invisibly) helps by keeping the posts on-topic and keeping the trolls down, but I guess I fall more on Crabby's side of the spectrum, deletions should be rare and only for major offenses. That isn't how it works here, though, which is something I guess I need to get used to or stop participating entirely.
posted by zug at 2:52 PM on April 29, 2011
I imagine that the moderation around here (invisibly) helps by keeping the posts on-topic and keeping the trolls down, but I guess I fall more on Crabby's side of the spectrum, deletions should be rare and only for major offenses. That isn't how it works here, though, which is something I guess I need to get used to or stop participating entirely.
posted by zug at 2:52 PM on April 29, 2011
any deletion is a tragedy, an evil
This seems ... overwrought.
posted by chinston at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [7 favorites]
This seems ... overwrought.
posted by chinston at 3:05 PM on April 29, 2011 [7 favorites]
Every comment deletion makes babbey jeezus cry.
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 3:09 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 3:09 PM on April 29, 2011
zug, I wouldn't have deleted it, but I don't see the flags like the mods do. To me, it seems like a decent answer to part of the question, but anecdotal, in that it was more descriptive of poorer cultures and the treatment of animals by some members of that class, without much explaining what you think the "why" there is.
That combined with the possible derail from the class aspect of the answer is probably what caused however many flags you got. Again, I wouldn't have deleted it, but I'm not a mod and they do a damn fine job, so I tend to defer to their judgment.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:11 PM on April 29, 2011
That combined with the possible derail from the class aspect of the answer is probably what caused however many flags you got. Again, I wouldn't have deleted it, but I'm not a mod and they do a damn fine job, so I tend to defer to their judgment.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:11 PM on April 29, 2011
Every comment is sacred.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:13 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:13 PM on April 29, 2011
Every comment is scared
posted by found missing at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by found missing at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2011
zug- the frequency of deletions differs between subsites.
MetaTalk: VERY rare
Metafilter: average
AskMetafilter: common
There are good reasons for this. AskMetafilter is not for the answerers. It is for people looking for answers. Keeping a record of who said what is irrelevant to the mission of helping people looking for answers. Contrast this with MetaTalk, where keeping that record might be really important to maintain an appropriate level of openness and transparency.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2011
MetaTalk: VERY rare
Metafilter: average
AskMetafilter: common
There are good reasons for this. AskMetafilter is not for the answerers. It is for people looking for answers. Keeping a record of who said what is irrelevant to the mission of helping people looking for answers. Contrast this with MetaTalk, where keeping that record might be really important to maintain an appropriate level of openness and transparency.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2011
That isn't how it works here, though, which is something I guess I need to get used to or stop participating entirely.
It's better if you remind yourself that it's not personal. If you've only had 6 answers deleted out of 134 (the current total on your profile page) you're doing pretty darn good.
I know there've been a few times when I've had an answer deleted where other answers very similar to mine were allowed to stand and I've kind of done the mental "Hmmph! That's not fair!" thing, but then I remind myself that it's not personal and that my particular pearl of wisdom isn't going to make or break the thread.
A deletion here and there isn't indicative of failure or of your worth as a member. It happens to all of us who are active. Another question will come along soon where you'll have a chance to give an answer that really makes you feel good about your participation.
posted by amyms at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2011
It's better if you remind yourself that it's not personal. If you've only had 6 answers deleted out of 134 (the current total on your profile page) you're doing pretty darn good.
I know there've been a few times when I've had an answer deleted where other answers very similar to mine were allowed to stand and I've kind of done the mental "Hmmph! That's not fair!" thing, but then I remind myself that it's not personal and that my particular pearl of wisdom isn't going to make or break the thread.
A deletion here and there isn't indicative of failure or of your worth as a member. It happens to all of us who are active. Another question will come along soon where you'll have a chance to give an answer that really makes you feel good about your participation.
posted by amyms at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2011
It's always personal when they delete mine.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:20 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:20 PM on April 29, 2011
Every comment is sacred.
every comment is great
if a comment is wasted
God gets quite irate
posted by maqsarian at 3:22 PM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
every comment is great
if a comment is wasted
God gets quite irate
posted by maqsarian at 3:22 PM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
any deletion is a tragedy, an evil
No answer is an island entire of itself; every reply
is a piece of the thread, a part of the green;
if an answer be deleted away by the mods, AskMe
is the less, as well as if a whole post were, as
well as a comment of thy friends or of thine
own were; any answer's deletion diminishes me,
because I am involved in answering.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the delete button clicks; it clicks for thee.
posted by amyms at 3:26 PM on April 29, 2011 [10 favorites]
No answer is an island entire of itself; every reply
is a piece of the thread, a part of the green;
if an answer be deleted away by the mods, AskMe
is the less, as well as if a whole post were, as
well as a comment of thy friends or of thine
own were; any answer's deletion diminishes me,
because I am involved in answering.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the delete button clicks; it clicks for thee.
posted by amyms at 3:26 PM on April 29, 2011 [10 favorites]
I sort of disagree with the deletion, because the question included: "Is it some sort of self-defense survival mechanism and/or is it a product of my culture?" and the answer answer started with: "I suspect empathy for animals is very much an middle/upper class thing in the US". That seems right on topic to me.
I also think, however, that the level of moderation on metafilter is vital part of what makes this place as good as it is. Of course not everyone will agree with every deletion, but when you say you are "completely in love with metafilter" you have to realize that the moderators and their thoughtful deletions (especially on ask) are a huge part of what has made this place so lovable.
posted by ericost at 3:56 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
I also think, however, that the level of moderation on metafilter is vital part of what makes this place as good as it is. Of course not everyone will agree with every deletion, but when you say you are "completely in love with metafilter" you have to realize that the moderators and their thoughtful deletions (especially on ask) are a huge part of what has made this place so lovable.
posted by ericost at 3:56 PM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
I like MetaFilter. But I don't like like MetaFIlter.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:58 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:58 PM on April 29, 2011
Don't you be tellin' fibs now Florence. I spied you smooching with Metafilter in behind the old barn.
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:03 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 4:03 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm explaining that as a way to let you know how it wound up on our radar in the first place, and why people may have flagged it.
I think it's weird that anyone would have flagged that comment. I mean, get a life.
I had a comment deleted recently that seemed really on-point and it kind of irked me. But I think the moderation is what makes Metafilter great so I didn't complain. If the price of a good community is occasional overzealous deletions I can deal with it.
posted by jayder at 4:07 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think it's weird that anyone would have flagged that comment. I mean, get a life.
I had a comment deleted recently that seemed really on-point and it kind of irked me. But I think the moderation is what makes Metafilter great so I didn't complain. If the price of a good community is occasional overzealous deletions I can deal with it.
posted by jayder at 4:07 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
What is surprising you in terms of lax moderation here?
Like most I flag stuff. Do I expect it to be addressed every time? No. Am I sometimes surprised by what lives? Yes. Am I ever wrong? Most assuredly.
I hit up the contact form on this post. Outrage filter and an extremely thin article? It's like 10 lines long, half of which are quotes. I was surprised it lived. Was I outraged it stayed? Did I feel a need for a meta callout or even an explanation of why it wasn't deleted? Not really. I imagine it had garnered enough commentary that it was decided to let it live.
I flag comments I think are derails, thread shitting, noise, or blatantly way off base (like when someone posts in the wrong thread). Some live, some don't.
My main commentary was just that I can only think of one or two deletions that I disagreed with. None that have stood out as an outrage.
Personally, I did have a joke deleted once, but I just assumed no one got it or found it funny. You can't please them all the time.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2011
Like most I flag stuff. Do I expect it to be addressed every time? No. Am I sometimes surprised by what lives? Yes. Am I ever wrong? Most assuredly.
I hit up the contact form on this post. Outrage filter and an extremely thin article? It's like 10 lines long, half of which are quotes. I was surprised it lived. Was I outraged it stayed? Did I feel a need for a meta callout or even an explanation of why it wasn't deleted? Not really. I imagine it had garnered enough commentary that it was decided to let it live.
I flag comments I think are derails, thread shitting, noise, or blatantly way off base (like when someone posts in the wrong thread). Some live, some don't.
My main commentary was just that I can only think of one or two deletions that I disagreed with. None that have stood out as an outrage.
Personally, I did have a joke deleted once, but I just assumed no one got it or found it funny. You can't please them all the time.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2011
Like most I flag stuff.
Is this actually true? I wonder if most people do flag things.
I know I've been here a while and I very rarely flag stuff, assuming we're talking about "noise", or "offensive" or "it breaks the guidelines and so on and not doubles. My guess is I go months at a time between flags and that virtually all if not all of those have been for flamey or obviously not right comments on AskMe. I'm not sure I've ever flagged something on the blue in this manner.
Do most people really go around flagging stuff constantly?
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on April 29, 2011
Is this actually true? I wonder if most people do flag things.
I know I've been here a while and I very rarely flag stuff, assuming we're talking about "noise", or "offensive" or "it breaks the guidelines and so on and not doubles. My guess is I go months at a time between flags and that virtually all if not all of those have been for flamey or obviously not right comments on AskMe. I'm not sure I've ever flagged something on the blue in this manner.
Do most people really go around flagging stuff constantly?
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on April 29, 2011
I think I flag my own diarrhea of the mouth more than anything else.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:52 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:52 PM on April 29, 2011
Oooh I can talk about this a little.
- Timing is a big part of it. I see a flag for a comment three-quarters of the way up the discussion and from two days ago? Unless they're super egregious and/or super self-contained, older comments can be hard to extract.
- Likewise, if the comment has a bunch of responses and has shaped the discussion such that removing it would make the thread make no sense or require application of a chainsaw to remove the entire branch of discussion, it's not worth touching. This is obviously mostly a function of time.
- That particular post got almost no flags for such an outragefilter topic and really never got fighty. We all sort of shrugged and kept an eye on it but it went pretty much fine, even though I think none of us really liked the FPP.
Everyone's pretty much covered the subsite differences. There are also differences in who happens to see it and how it strikes them. (I, for example, tend towards the ruthlessly iron-fisted. Since I know this, it makes me unwilling to pull the trigger some of the time before I can check in with cooler heads. The net effect will probably look pretty erratic for a while.)
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:52 PM on April 29, 2011
- Timing is a big part of it. I see a flag for a comment three-quarters of the way up the discussion and from two days ago? Unless they're super egregious and/or super self-contained, older comments can be hard to extract.
- Likewise, if the comment has a bunch of responses and has shaped the discussion such that removing it would make the thread make no sense or require application of a chainsaw to remove the entire branch of discussion, it's not worth touching. This is obviously mostly a function of time.
- That particular post got almost no flags for such an outragefilter topic and really never got fighty. We all sort of shrugged and kept an eye on it but it went pretty much fine, even though I think none of us really liked the FPP.
Everyone's pretty much covered the subsite differences. There are also differences in who happens to see it and how it strikes them. (I, for example, tend towards the ruthlessly iron-fisted. Since I know this, it makes me unwilling to pull the trigger some of the time before I can check in with cooler heads. The net effect will probably look pretty erratic for a while.)
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:52 PM on April 29, 2011
Flagged.
posted by found missing at 4:53 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by found missing at 4:53 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
*captures the flag, moves on*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:54 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:54 PM on April 29, 2011
Is this actually true? I wonder if most people do flag things.
It's complicated to answer. The very short answer is no, most people don't flag stuff, in the same sense that most people don't post or favorite or probably even comment. And there's probably an overwhelming overlap between those various mosts; they're the long tail of never- or barely-active users who don't do much with their accounts.
That said, last time I looked at flagging behavior it was clear that a lot of people do flag at least a little here and there. Something in the thousands, I think. It followed a power curve like most user behavior graphs do here; a small group flags a lot, a larger group flags less, a larger group yet flags only rarely.
One of these days I'll take another look at that stuff and maybe try to be more detailed about it than I was last time I checked.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:54 PM on April 29, 2011
It's complicated to answer. The very short answer is no, most people don't flag stuff, in the same sense that most people don't post or favorite or probably even comment. And there's probably an overwhelming overlap between those various mosts; they're the long tail of never- or barely-active users who don't do much with their accounts.
That said, last time I looked at flagging behavior it was clear that a lot of people do flag at least a little here and there. Something in the thousands, I think. It followed a power curve like most user behavior graphs do here; a small group flags a lot, a larger group flags less, a larger group yet flags only rarely.
One of these days I'll take another look at that stuff and maybe try to be more detailed about it than I was last time I checked.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:54 PM on April 29, 2011
The thing that would be interesting to me is how strong the correlation between flagging and site activity like number of comments is. Like are the people who comment the most generally the people who flag-for-content the most or is there a group of people who use the site heavily and another who flag a lot with only modest overlap between the two?
I'm sure a lot of people do flag at least a little. Like I said I do flag things once in a while even if its mostly on Ask Metafilter. I see that as a very different thing than the blue, though, as does site policy. Something would have to be pretty dang egregious for me to flag it as offensive on the blue. Like "shut your mouth you dirty *****" egregious where ***** is one of several bad bad words.
posted by Justinian at 5:09 PM on April 29, 2011
I'm sure a lot of people do flag at least a little. Like I said I do flag things once in a while even if its mostly on Ask Metafilter. I see that as a very different thing than the blue, though, as does site policy. Something would have to be pretty dang egregious for me to flag it as offensive on the blue. Like "shut your mouth you dirty *****" egregious where ***** is one of several bad bad words.
posted by Justinian at 5:09 PM on April 29, 2011
whore, is it whore?
posted by found missing at 5:13 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by found missing at 5:13 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
tehloki, you are my nerd.
posted by gman at 5:30 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gman at 5:30 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Christ you two, get a room with streaming video cam.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:54 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:54 PM on April 29, 2011
I bet I seldom flag in askme, since I know that's more heavily moderated, and I admit I don't have as strong of a feel for what makes a good question of answer. I flag stuff in the blue all the time. If the thread is less than an hour old or has less that 5 comments and it's obvious that the first comments are only snark or derails I flag. I think it's shitty behavior, so I note it. Am I innocent of doing this? Probably not and when I do I hope someone flags me.
I don't know if I flag more or less than others. I guess I was projecting my own behavior as far as flagging goes.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:56 PM on April 29, 2011
I don't know if I flag more or less than others. I guess I was projecting my own behavior as far as flagging goes.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:56 PM on April 29, 2011
I guess I was projecting my own behavior as far as flagging goes.
That's probably pretty common. Certainly I assume all of you are also witty conversationalists possessed of devilish good looks.
posted by Justinian at 6:23 PM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
That's probably pretty common. Certainly I assume all of you are also witty conversationalists possessed of devilish good looks.
posted by Justinian at 6:23 PM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised by the deletion; anecdata and partial answers like this live all the time. But I too prefer the occasional overmoderation to AskMe becoming Yahoo Answers. But sorry it seems to happen to you a lot, zug.
posted by salvia at 6:49 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 6:49 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nthing the disagreement with this deletion; the whole thread is full of conjecture, anecdata, and random stories about peoples' experiences, and zug's comment seems no different than any of the others. Not to mention, he actually did give an answer to the question as stated.
posted by dialetheia at 7:46 PM on April 29, 2011
posted by dialetheia at 7:46 PM on April 29, 2011
When you saw that one of your comments was deleted, it was then that I carried you.
posted by rhizome at 12:03 AM on April 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:03 AM on April 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I suspect empathy for animals is very much an middle/upper class thing in the US.
I doubt this. Being able to afford special foods and fancy collars and veterinary care is a middle/upper class thing.
I'm lucky, when my cat need a kitty cardiologist I could afford that. However, I've been in the pet ER on several occasions and saw people who were devastated because they couldn't afford the care their animal needed. They didn't lack empathy; they lacked the means to do anything. (BTW, my vet hospital will let you make a secret donation defray the cost of care when someone can't afford to pay. Basically, you donate a bit and the hospital matches it. The recipient doesn't know who made the donation. I've Secret Santa'd quite a few pets over the years. If you find yourself at the pet ER, then you might ask if they have a similar program.)
posted by 26.2 at 4:24 PM on April 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I doubt this. Being able to afford special foods and fancy collars and veterinary care is a middle/upper class thing.
I'm lucky, when my cat need a kitty cardiologist I could afford that. However, I've been in the pet ER on several occasions and saw people who were devastated because they couldn't afford the care their animal needed. They didn't lack empathy; they lacked the means to do anything. (BTW, my vet hospital will let you make a secret donation defray the cost of care when someone can't afford to pay. Basically, you donate a bit and the hospital matches it. The recipient doesn't know who made the donation. I've Secret Santa'd quite a few pets over the years. If you find yourself at the pet ER, then you might ask if they have a similar program.)
posted by 26.2 at 4:24 PM on April 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Flagging-happy busybodies need a hobby. Some people act like they own this site. Only one person does.
But the other side of that is to let deletions wash right off you.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:40 AM on May 1, 2011
But the other side of that is to let deletions wash right off you.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:40 AM on May 1, 2011
I am done with AskMefi. Like the OP here I left an answer a couple of hours ago which was a bit in my case a bit snarky, but also a valid answer to the question. It's gone. No explanation, just pfutttf. Well fuck that. Somebody apparently thinks they're High Britches Sherriff of AskMe. I'll stick to the Blue as long as that shit doesn't seem to be spreading.
posted by localroger at 4:03 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 4:03 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know that it's always pretty much okay to go back and do the good-part-of-the-answer-without-the-admitted-snark do-over thing, right? It's your call, you're not compelled to participate or anything, but the "don't snark in askme" guideline isn't new and it sounds like you knew you were kind of fucking around from the get go.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:28 PM on May 1, 2011
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:28 PM on May 1, 2011
Cortex, in case you happen to be new here -- oh, wait, you're not -- there aren't any printed guidelines. You have to kind of pick it up as you go along. Which is fine; all communities work like that. I don't have a problem with working it out. But when the way it works out is my content disappears without even a contact from the disappearer or any explanation, that is just rude as hell and fuck that. I thought this place was better than that.
posted by localroger at 5:54 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 5:54 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nope, that's pretty much how it goes. There are too many people, and too many people who like to bicker, to email everyone about their comment being deleted. Here's the FAQ about comment deletions in AskMe.
posted by salvia at 6:10 PM on May 1, 2011
posted by salvia at 6:10 PM on May 1, 2011
Hey, cortex, I posted a comment in AskMe about a year and a half ago...it was pretty snarky but it did answer the question. Sort of. You can't ever have too many "DTMFA"s, right? Anyway, I don't seem to see it anymore, which means you probably deleted it for NO GOOD REASON without even telling me! Next time you should at least drop me an email or fax me or send jessamyn by in her little green car to knock on my door or something because damn.
posted by phunniemee at 6:22 PM on May 1, 2011
posted by phunniemee at 6:22 PM on May 1, 2011
Well, great. It's Kuro5hin II. I should just probably get rid of the internet service entirely.
posted by localroger at 6:55 PM on May 1, 2011
posted by localroger at 6:55 PM on May 1, 2011
But when the way it works out is my content disappears without even a contact from the disappearer or any explanation, that is just rude as hell and fuck that. I thought this place was better than that.
We would get nothing else done if every time we made a routine deletion we had to write up an email and start a conversation about it. It's basic practical resource management, not any attempt to be rude: if you aren't appearing to have some sort of ongoing issue with noisy comments or seeming confused about how the site works, we are not going to write to you just to say "hey, that snarky thing got deleted".
You have had two comments ever deleted from askme, the first one in 2005. You clearly do not have any sort of ongoing problem with noisy or snarky content in askme, so we're not in a position where we'd think it was necessary to write to you to give you some sort of "cut it out" talking to or whatever. If you specifically want feedback on a specific deletion, you can totally write to us at the contact form and we'll be happy to talk about it. But alerting you and everyone else about every deleted comment is not tenable. It'd be a quick road to mod burnout.
We're not going to delete stuff capriciously; the "don't joke around or be needlessly snarky in askme" thing is pretty much the fundamental day-to-day thing we deal with on the green, and we need people to keep that in mind and be understanding if they fool around and consequently get a comment nixed. It is for the record totally fine to go back and try again without the bits that got the comment nixed.
If that's just fundamentally a showstopper for you, that's fine, that's your druthers and you can choose what works for you. But it's a really basic, long-standing part of how this site has worked for years and years: we basically trust people to be more or less autonomous adults who don't need micromanaging, we hope people will trust us to show good judgement about the day-to-day moderation stuff, and for the tricky edge cases we will talk about it as much as folks need.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:34 PM on May 1, 2011
We would get nothing else done if every time we made a routine deletion we had to write up an email and start a conversation about it. It's basic practical resource management, not any attempt to be rude: if you aren't appearing to have some sort of ongoing issue with noisy comments or seeming confused about how the site works, we are not going to write to you just to say "hey, that snarky thing got deleted".
You have had two comments ever deleted from askme, the first one in 2005. You clearly do not have any sort of ongoing problem with noisy or snarky content in askme, so we're not in a position where we'd think it was necessary to write to you to give you some sort of "cut it out" talking to or whatever. If you specifically want feedback on a specific deletion, you can totally write to us at the contact form and we'll be happy to talk about it. But alerting you and everyone else about every deleted comment is not tenable. It'd be a quick road to mod burnout.
We're not going to delete stuff capriciously; the "don't joke around or be needlessly snarky in askme" thing is pretty much the fundamental day-to-day thing we deal with on the green, and we need people to keep that in mind and be understanding if they fool around and consequently get a comment nixed. It is for the record totally fine to go back and try again without the bits that got the comment nixed.
If that's just fundamentally a showstopper for you, that's fine, that's your druthers and you can choose what works for you. But it's a really basic, long-standing part of how this site has worked for years and years: we basically trust people to be more or less autonomous adults who don't need micromanaging, we hope people will trust us to show good judgement about the day-to-day moderation stuff, and for the tricky edge cases we will talk about it as much as folks need.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:34 PM on May 1, 2011
Localroger, you've had two AskMe comments deleted in 6 years and you're this mad? Shit, I probably have two deleted before breakfast.
posted by Justinian at 10:18 AM on May 2, 2011
posted by Justinian at 10:18 AM on May 2, 2011
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
The question that you did not answer was "Are there any psychologists out there who know why we are able to generate so much empathy for animals but not for humans?"
posted by mudpuppie at 11:59 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]