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Reposting from chat.metafilter.com?
April 19, 2013 5:30 AM   Subscribe

I had a comment of mine from the chat get reposted in the boston thread, which was a relatively innocuous comment, so I'm not really mad about it, but I'd really prefer that that doesn't become a thing. The chat requires a log in to view, it's not archived publicly and the expectations about what people can and can't talk about there are different. Thanks.
posted by empath to Etiquette/Policy at 5:30 AM (60 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite

Yeah, it would be best if people didn't do that, though expectations that Chat is going to be a totally, completely discrete thing from the rest of the site is probably not reasonable, so people should be aware of that. We can't guarantee that no one will ever say "oh, this was mentioned in chat: "blah, blah" or that people don't save transcripts. So, yeah, even though it's ephemeral compared to the site proper, it isn't private, so folks should be aware of that.

But, yes, we don't want cross-talk about well, you said blah blah in chat, and now you say blah blah, or any of that kind of thing, and if someone sees something quoted that is a problem, let us know.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Right, I'm not saying that mods need to really do anything about it or there needs to be a 'what's said in chat stays in chat' hard and fast rule. Just that be aware that if people wanted to post something on mefi, they would have, and that not everything that people say in chat was meant for public consumption. At least ask before you repost something.
posted by empath at 5:50 AM on April 19, 2013


How does chat work? You need a separate log in from metafilter.com?
posted by dfriedman at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013


It's the same username/login, but you have to have one and put it in before you can see what people are contributing to the discussion. As opposed to the rest of the site, which features public-facing discussion from logged-in members.
posted by carsonb at 5:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Got it. Thanks.
posted by dfriedman at 6:01 AM on April 19, 2013


FAQ info about how Chat works is here.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


100% agree w/ empath on this one.
posted by mintcake! at 6:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


What's the status of Chat, in terms of the rest of the site?

It has an FAQ entry, but there are no links to it in the nav or footer... so does it fall into similar territory as MetaChat or MeFightClub, in the sense that it's a place for MeFites to hang out, or is it an 'official' MetaFilter thing, in the same way, e.g., Ask MetaFilter is?

I know MetaChat and MeFightClub are completely independent outfits, but I couldn't think of anything else that's roughly equivalent.

It seems kind of weird that there's this quasi-official backchannel for discussion unknown (presumably) to the majority of users...
posted by jack_mo at 6:12 AM on April 19, 2013


What's the status of Chat, in terms of the rest of the site?

My understanding (from a non-mod perspective) is that chat is a release valve for mega-threads. Instead of live-blogging news events in ever-increasingly unwieldy MeFi threads, people go be with each other in chat.

MeFightClub and MetaChat are only related to MetaFilter inasmuch as their userbase mostly consists of MeFites. They spawned from MetaFilter. Chat is hosted on MeFi servers (well, it's own server, I guess, but one owned/leased and operated by MetaFilter LLC) and yeah it is weird that there's no obvious way to get there. That may have to do a lot with it's weather-balloon status— it was floated out as an experiment on MetaTalk in the heat of the US election season and then just never went away.
posted by carsonb at 6:18 AM on April 19, 2013


And yeah, it is kind of weird. But not necessarily in a bad way.
posted by carsonb at 6:19 AM on April 19, 2013


Agreed. If I wanted to add something to a thread I'd do it myself, thanks. So don't help me.
posted by Splunge at 6:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, empath. Won't do it again. It just made me laugh when I needed it. Didn't think about the privacy concerns.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


I had a similar problem with a comment of mine during election-time. Its reposting pretty much killed off my appetite for chat until the last day or so - and even then, I'm (slightly) more careful about what I yak about in chat. Slightly.
posted by item at 6:41 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, it was a very funny comment, but I totally agree with this request.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:42 AM on April 19, 2013


And yeah, it is kind of weird. But not necessarily in a bad way.

Oh, sure - I didn't mean to imply that Chat is a bad idea, just that it seems to exist in a confusing space between 'part of MetaFilter' and 'sort of part of MetaFilter, but, like, not really'.

Obviously there's nothing wrong with it remaining an experiment for a long while, but I imagine the longer it's in limbo the more threads like this will crop up with problems caused by folk having different understandings of its nature and relationship with the site.
posted by jack_mo at 6:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I asked the mods to delete it. sorry again.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:43 AM on April 19, 2013


Whoops. Consider me schooled on this too.

I'm going to check with my 'source' and see if my comment should be deleted.
posted by mazola at 7:00 AM on April 19, 2013


Wait, there's a MeFightClub? I would really like to ask about that, but I can only assume that the first rule of MeFightClub...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:04 AM on April 19, 2013


100% agree w/ mintcake on this one.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 AM on April 19, 2013


Mefight club. And one of the Metatalks about that thing we don't talk about.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The check is in the mail, BB.
posted by mintcake! at 7:22 AM on April 19, 2013


MeFightClub?

Isn't that redundant?
posted by mazola at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'm trying to log into the chat with horace\20rumpole@chat.metafilter.com and my MeFi password and it keeps saying authentication failed. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong? (FF on a Mac)
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, just reiterating what taz said: mostly how we feel about bringing stuff over from chat (or over to chat) is the same as how we feel about bringing stuff over from other threads or past history. Don't be an asshole, don't do grudgey stuff, don't get your gossiping-like-they're-not-on-the-same-site-as-you stuff on. And in general an abundance of caution is always a good thing.

Generally speaking I think the better rubric is to treat it more like email and just check in with the person if you want to relocate a discussion or portion thereof, but chat's more public from the getgo so we aren't looking at this the same way we'd lood at reposting someone's email.

What's the status of Chat, in terms of the rest of the site?

Our plan ever since first launching back during election season and not having it fall over terribly or otherwise turn out to be the Worst Idea Ever has been to figure out how to make sure it's good and stable and that we've got our various ducks in a row, before looking at making it a bit more permanently visible. We're not there yet, so it's sort of a murky back-alley thing still, is all.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I asked the mods to delete it. sorry again.

Nothing to be sorry about, it's a new thing and there aren't really norms about that kind of thing here yet. It was just weird to see people discussing a comment I didn't post.
posted by empath at 7:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


so it's sort of a murky back-alley thing still

These are not the beans that you are looking for.
posted by arcticseal at 7:38 AM on April 19, 2013


Thanks for the info cortex!

I'm trying to log into the chat with horace\20rumpole@chat.metafilter.com and my MeFi password and it keeps saying authentication failed. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong? (FF on a Mac)

I could never get the browser version working properly in any browser, but it works quite nicely in Messages (née iChat):

1. Go to Preferences > Account Information and click the plus sign at the bottom left.

2. Choose 'Jabber' from the drop down menu in the pane that appears and fill in your MeFi login details.

3. Expand the 'Server Options' bit and fill in the details - Server: chat.metafilter.com, Port: 5223, check 'Use SSL' - and click 'Done'.

4. Choose File > Go to Chat Room, Room name: MeFi, click 'Go'.

Think that's it. Bit fiddly, really.
posted by jack_mo at 8:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


Cortex: it's sort of a murky back-alley thing still, is all.

I was in chat the other day and Mathowie popped in. I believe by accident.

Does this mean that at all times hereafter, I can say that I first met Mathowie hanging out in a murky back alley? I think yes.
posted by greenish at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?

If you're using the browser client at chat.metafilter.com, skip the \20 stuff. We try to make it easier there. Try horace rumpole@chat.metafilter.com. (If you're using a browser where you're logged in a Metafilter.com already, it should fill the username field for you.)
posted by pb (staff) at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Thanks pb, that did it.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:31 AM on April 19, 2013


This post has helpful information if you're having trouble connecting to chat.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:23 AM on April 19, 2013


I've always thought chat was a penny-wise, pound-foolish innovation. I think it'll make the breaking news threads better in the short-run but make the site much worse (constant chatter, new potential for feuds, less oversight of dickishness) in the long-run. I'd hate to see it become a more visible part of the site, personally.
posted by gerryblog at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


There's a certain amount of talk in the newest Boston FPP re: things said/discussed in chat, may warrant a looking over or pruning.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:39 PM on April 19, 2013


Hopefully that does't come over as me being snitchier or hall monitoresque; I'd flag a couple to give the mods a head's up, but I'm on my iPod and MeFi mobile is totally biased against the sausage thumbed and cock fingered.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:42 PM on April 19, 2013


There's a certain amount of talk in the newest Boston FPP re: things said/discussed in chat.

I'm one of the people who commented about this in the Boston FPP, and I tried to be careful to do it in a general way that did not reveal particular remarks or types/topics of remarks that were made and definitely didn't identify any specific users who made them. But if what I said was inappropriate, I apologize and am fine with having my comment deleted.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:51 PM on April 19, 2013


There's a certain amount of talk in the newest Boston FPP re: things said/discussed in chat, may warrant a looking over or pruning.

Both places are discussing the same thing - if people are trying to be targeted with what gets posted where they're going to have to be super explicit about it, I'm at max info flow right now and can't cross-check.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:04 PM on April 19, 2013


Both places are discussing the same thing

I don't think Alvy Ampersand was referring to the current chat/thread liveblog but to a conversation in the thread a few hours ago about some stuff that occurred in chat last night.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:33 PM on April 19, 2013


Links or it's going to have to wait!
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:38 PM on April 19, 2013


It can wait! Actually, it doesn't need revisiting and I feel like a bit of an ass for bringing it up in the first place. Like FelliniBlank said, it was a few hours ago and they were being careful about how and who they were talking about. I was just being pre-emptively knee-jerky because I was expecting it to derail into something messy.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:43 PM on April 19, 2013


Am I crazy or have the bits referencing last night's chat been scrubbed from the thread? I can't find them. Anyway, that was part of what caused me to write what I wrote about; it sounds like things got pretty hairy as people got riled up over the fake suspect.
posted by gerryblog at 5:52 PM on April 19, 2013


gerryblog, the discussion starts here and goes on intermittently for a while.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:04 PM on April 19, 2013


Ah, I was looking in the other thread.
posted by gerryblog at 6:19 PM on April 19, 2013


Empath, was that mine? If so, sorry; I wasn't aware of the non-archived nature of the chat. Mods, please feel free to delete my comment in the original Boston thread.
posted by subbes at 6:28 PM on April 19, 2013


I've always viewed *any* chat as a private space regardless of who/what spawned it, and if I want to quote anyone from chat in "public" on the internet, I ask them for permission. I can see how people who aren't longtime irc types might get that wrong, though, since we tend to think of the whole internet as "public."
posted by tzikeh at 8:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I would have assumed chat was like mefimail, shared between those present and archived sure, but quoting or reposting from it in other places is not allowed. For me it also feels kind of rude to post about a chat conversation in later thread just like it's rude to repeat a private conversation with a wider audience. It just feels gossipy somehow ('guess what person a said to me that other day?'). But then I haven't been into chat here and don't use chatrooms in general so maybe my assumptions and feelings are totally off.
posted by shelleycat at 2:15 AM on April 20, 2013


Metafilter Chat (or as I'm rooting for, ChatMe), is not archived, and is intended to be ephemeral. Like, I've made some friends in it, and there are definitely regulars and there are some cultural norms solidifying in it, but for the most part, it is supposed to be, and please correct me if I'm wrong, mods, a flexible space. Things I say in chat are intended for the audience currently in there at the time. It's not exactly private, but it's also not exactly public. I like it that way. I think it's a good guideline not to quote chat, but I think a certain amount of "this was part of an interesting chat the other day" might be okay. Paraphrasing, I suppose, for the new intended audience. Direct quoting, though, particularly about something so fraught with controversy and stress, is something that seems like a poor idea. It's not twitter.
posted by Mizu at 2:31 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, that's a good way to look at it, but the caveat is that not everyone will necessarily know this automatically, and so it wouldn't be wise to assume that everyone will abide strictly by these assumptions or expectations. I'd also just always advise people to be very wary about revealing sensitive personal information, perhaps lulled by the feeling that you are in an intimate / private space. It definitely is not, even though it's not archived or indexed for search engines.

The other thing is that we don't really want to be enforcing special Chat policies beyond existing site guidelines and reasonable expectations that people should not be abusive, people should not cross the streams to create dramaz, people shouldn't use it as a space to make trouble for the site, period. Our feeling has been that it's a nice outlet, especially in those breaking news periods when Mefi threads are hammered, and if people like to have it turned on all the time, we don't have any problem with supporting that based on how things have gone so far... but we don't want it to be something that actually causes more admin work or site drama.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:00 AM on April 20, 2013


Okay well, various people asked for a compendium of the silly NYPOST: INSERT JOKE HEADLINE HERE fun that people were engaging in chat last night, so I grepped the log (filtered for lines that contained "NYPOST") and did a little additional pruning of things that were not actual joke headlines posted.

I haven't posted it anywhere, but would it be okay to MeMail it to interested parties? I believe that this content is benign and nobody revealed personal info or anything embarrassing to themselves. I would not post it to mefi (for one thing, it is long) but someone suggested I put it up on the wiki or something. I don't know if that would be okay.

Anyway, I don't want to do anything with this trimmed log that would piss the mods off... so, mods, can I share it privately? It contains silliness and joking and would make people smile.
posted by marble at 3:07 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's an exceptional case of straight up no-worries joking that I think would be fine to toss on the wiki, especially if you've already given it an eyeballing so that you know it doesn't accidentally contain a line that's like "NYPOST: [somebody's email address]".
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:09 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


marble: "Okay well, various people asked for a compendium of the silly NYPOST: INSERT JOKE HEADLINE HERE fun that people were engaging in chat last night"

Whatever you do, I would like to read it, so let me know how I can once you decide.
posted by subbes at 5:30 PM on April 20, 2013


marble i know you were asking where it would go in the wiki. i briefly skimmed the list of wiki pages and there didn't seem to be something it already fits under. there is a page for hoojamidngy so i think it'd be fine to do something specific like Mefi Chat NY Post Headlines. or Boston Marathon Bombing NY Post Headlines. or even just Fake NY Post Headlines and explain further in the page.

thanks for doing this!
posted by twist my arm at 5:54 PM on April 20, 2013


Okay it took me some time to figure out how to get it up there, but here is the list of parody NYPOST headlines from chat the other night.

Let me know if it's okay or needs to be fixed / adjusted. It is linked to from the page about chat in general (which seems to almost entirely be focused on the #mefi irc channel, but anyway...). And of course it's a wiki so if you need to make changes, you can do that yourself.

Enjoy!
posted by marble at 11:36 AM on April 21, 2013 [5 favorites]


I added a line to the wiki page for context - if someone had never seen the misleading headline, they wouldn't know what the heck we were on about.
posted by desjardins at 11:57 AM on April 21, 2013


Okay, here's my question -- since the wiki is public, and you don't have to be signed in (or even a member of Metafilter) to read it, would users find it acceptable if highlights from those NYPOST headlines were reposted elsewhere on the internet (i.e. my tumblr)? If something is on a public website, is there a legitimate objection to be made that it not be shared on another site with a link to the source?

I just want everyone to see the funny.
posted by tzikeh at 4:21 PM on April 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


I've always viewed *any* chat as a private space regardless of who/what spawned it, and if I want to quote anyone from chat in "public" on the internet, I ask them for permission. I can see how people who aren't longtime irc types might get that wrong, though, since we tend to think of the whole internet as "public."

Spot on. The expectation is that chat is ephemeral. Making transcripts - even cutting and pasting - is the equivalent of laying in a listening device.

Also chat is a different tool for a different purpose and too much cross-pollination between MetaFilter and MetaChat is gonna make an ugly hybrid.
posted by three blind mice at 6:56 AM on April 23, 2013


three blind mice: Also chat is a different tool for a different purpose and too much cross-pollination between MetaFilter and MetaChat is gonna make an ugly hybrid.

We should make it clear, since there seems to be some confusion in this thread. MetaChat is its own thing. There is also now a chat server at chat.metafilter.com that seems to be officially called MetaFilter Chat and I have heard unofficially called ChatFilter (ChatFi) or ChatMe. I think it is important that we don't use MetaChat as shorthand for the new(-ish) chat server, as it might angry up the Mechazens.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:49 AM on April 23, 2013


And now I am having semantic satiation with "chat". Chat chat chat chat. Chat.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:51 AM on April 23, 2013


Chat appears to be IRC; I've only used the in-browser version but it seems some of the chat participants seem to be on IRC clients. Always assume any IRC style chat is archived. All f the personal IRC chat clients I've looked at archive everything unless you turn the logging feature off. I was a regular on one IRC channel years back and they had to tell me how to download the client and get on, and by default the client logged EVERYTHING. It was both useful and scary. It only takes one person who is on the channel with such a client to make a permanent record of everything.
posted by localroger at 8:21 PM on April 23, 2013


Yeah, I don't care if individual participants are archiving it. I just don't necessarily want people to google it.
posted by empath at 9:17 PM on April 23, 2013


It's not IRC, it's XMPP aka Jabber, which is another (more modern, less widespread) open chat standard. It is archivable though by people who are running stand-alone clients that have that feature, just like IRC. The web client can't do it, but there are any number of stand-alone clients that have logging.
posted by Scientist at 9:18 PM on April 23, 2013


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