Season 8, Ep 3 - Is this an embryonic pony I see before me? September 8, 2014 11:23 AM Subscribe
So I'm cruising along in FanFare when I see this:
I realize the taxonomy of tags and such can be used for good or for piles of tagging. I'm not asking to have a sort by tag other than what exists ... for movies it's great if they are doing it as a specific rewatch club and / or genre club (summercamp / comedyhorror / RobinWilliams).
Classic Who and Nu Who are easy to break up. The series number was rebooted and they have vastly different names. But what happens when Nu Who starts (if it has - I don't live in the cable world I'm a few years back on NetFlix) and we've got rewatches and Nu Nu Who going on?
It'd be nice to be able to page through, as a late comer to FanFare, the posts by series order (as determined by the runners of each group as actual air order or eventual DVD order or intended by the auteur order). Maybe in the case of Who and, say BattleStar, a way to wedge in extra episodes, specials, webisodes in their "proper order" within the aired episode ecosphere.
We can get crazy with it, but don't have to. This request would be, I think, just taking the data we are already capturing (SxEy) and make it usable as a "previous episode" and "next episode" link sorty kind of like thing.
Thoughts? Hard to do? Useful to people? It's useful to my brain but i don't claim to have a standard issue one up to spec.
Doctor Who: Robot of Sherwood Season 8, Ep 3Buuuut, when I click that title, I just get the post and title: Doctor Who: Robot of Sherwood and not any way to navigate among the episodes, unless someone happens to have put a Dr Who tag on there, it's the same for every episode, and I can pick it out from the tag cloud. And then they are in Posted chrono order, not actual airing or watching chrono order. Can we change that?
I realize the taxonomy of tags and such can be used for good or for piles of tagging. I'm not asking to have a sort by tag other than what exists ... for movies it's great if they are doing it as a specific rewatch club and / or genre club (summercamp / comedyhorror / RobinWilliams).
Classic Who and Nu Who are easy to break up. The series number was rebooted and they have vastly different names. But what happens when Nu Who starts (if it has - I don't live in the cable world I'm a few years back on NetFlix) and we've got rewatches and Nu Nu Who going on?
It'd be nice to be able to page through, as a late comer to FanFare, the posts by series order (as determined by the runners of each group as actual air order or eventual DVD order or intended by the auteur order). Maybe in the case of Who and, say BattleStar, a way to wedge in extra episodes, specials, webisodes in their "proper order" within the aired episode ecosphere.
We can get crazy with it, but don't have to. This request would be, I think, just taking the data we are already capturing (SxEy) and make it usable as a "previous episode" and "next episode" link sorty kind of like thing.
Thoughts? Hard to do? Useful to people? It's useful to my brain but i don't claim to have a standard issue one up to spec.
Here's a bit more explanation: every show on FanFare has its own page that lists all episodes. There are a couple ways to get to a show page. 1.) The Archives. This lists every show on FanFare. Clicking a show title there will take you to the show page for that particular show. 2.) On a thread for a particular show. So if you browse to the thread Doctor Who: Robot of Sherwood, you'll notice that the words "Doctor Who" in the title are a link. You can click that to get to the show page. You can also click the poster art in the sidebar to get to the show page. 3.) Recently Added Sidebar. If you click any of the posters in the sidebar you'll get to that show's page.
posted by pb (staff) at 11:32 AM on September 8, 2014
posted by pb (staff) at 11:32 AM on September 8, 2014
Some of the Classic Who / New Who discussion took place in the Who administration thread but I think we will run into problems with the Wednesday Who rewatch quite soon due to the christmas special. Do we have a method for dealing with those?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 11:53 AM on September 8, 2014
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 11:53 AM on September 8, 2014
1. Cool, so that is what the picture is with no mouseover text is!
2. Sure, I can see that but:
Click the tag Method
If we can get it to read and do that you get:
Buttons Method:
I don't know how to deal with concurrent watch/rewatch threads that include or don't include books and therefore have subjective "dupes" - I'd go with keeping those strings separate.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:00 PM on September 8, 2014
2. Sure, I can see that but:
Click the tag Method
- First, click the episode you see on the main FF page.
- Next, click the DoctorWho tag (assume all entries are tagged identically)
- https://fanfare.metafilter.com/tags/DoctorWho
- Episodes are show in posted-on-date order.
- User must click to open the desired episode in a new window, or toggle forwards and backwards between the list and the episodic discussions.
- First, click the episode you see on the main FF page if it's scrolled down enough that the show picture thingy isn't on the main FF page.
- Next, click the DoctorWho picture (no mouseover text urging such - I wondered how I ended up there sometimes!!).
- https://fanfare.metafilter.com/show/doctor-who
- Episodes are show in posted-on-date order.
- User must click to open the desired episode in a new window, or toggle forwards and backwards between the list and the episodic discussions.
- Find out how to do the archive method and click the link.I see it now, waaay down at the bottom of the page marked "archive" if you happen to be on the FF page
- https://fanfare.metafilter.com/archive.mefi
- See every TV show series and alphabetical movies (Hand sorts? Ouch!)
- Episodes are show in "series" order.
- User does not see any discussion information, only links for episodes by number and season
- User must click to open the desired episode in a new window, or toggle forwards and backwards between the list and the episodic discussions.
If we can get it to read and do that you get:
Buttons Method:
- User sees episode title on FF page, Show Page, or Archive Page
- User clicks into Episode.
- User clicks a rendered forward or backward link buttons to move through the show discussions episodically.
I don't know how to deal with concurrent watch/rewatch threads that include or don't include books and therefore have subjective "dupes" - I'd go with keeping those strings separate.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:00 PM on September 8, 2014
... and can't click S1E1 and then by any simple means move on to S1E2.
Maybe we can talk a bit about how people are using FanFare. I'm not sure it's common to sit down and read an entire series worth of threads in order like that. If you're in the mood to do that I can see how those forward/back buttons would be handy. But it doesn't seem like that much more work to open a show page in a tab and click through for those occasions when you want to read all the way through. Maybe catching up like that happens quite a bit?
posted by pb (staff) at 12:04 PM on September 8, 2014
Maybe we can talk a bit about how people are using FanFare. I'm not sure it's common to sit down and read an entire series worth of threads in order like that. If you're in the mood to do that I can see how those forward/back buttons would be handy. But it doesn't seem like that much more work to open a show page in a tab and click through for those occasions when you want to read all the way through. Maybe catching up like that happens quite a bit?
posted by pb (staff) at 12:04 PM on September 8, 2014
Part of why it's a MT discussion. :) To see if I'm the only weirdo out here that reads this way.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:06 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:06 PM on September 8, 2014
Do we have a method for dealing with those?
No, we don't have a way to add TV Movies/Specials right now. I think the best bet would be to create a Season 1, Episode 14 "The Christmas Invasion" for now.
posted by pb (staff) at 12:06 PM on September 8, 2014
No, we don't have a way to add TV Movies/Specials right now. I think the best bet would be to create a Season 1, Episode 14 "The Christmas Invasion" for now.
posted by pb (staff) at 12:06 PM on September 8, 2014
Webisodes and specials suggestion:
To set up a special, set it up very much like an episode. Then select the "correct" series and episode numbers, and toggle a new check box that reads something along the lines of "This is a special episode that appears after series X and episode Y" to queue it properly and tag* it as a user-entered Xmas Special or "Webisode branch" or "flashback miniseries".
As for miniseries, maybe it's a better idea to have a simple "special" check box? And then it's Special 1, special 2?
Tracking prequels (do any series do that besides Stars War and Trek?) seems nightmarish at best.
*tag is a bad word choice but I only have a 4.24 edit window - I mean "tag" as in "Rewatch" or "Books Only" - big color flash bit like we have now for First Watch and Rewatch and lah-dee-dah
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:09 PM on September 8, 2014
To set up a special, set it up very much like an episode. Then select the "correct" series and episode numbers, and toggle a new check box that reads something along the lines of "This is a special episode that appears after series X and episode Y" to queue it properly and tag* it as a user-entered Xmas Special or "Webisode branch" or "flashback miniseries".
As for miniseries, maybe it's a better idea to have a simple "special" check box? And then it's Special 1, special 2?
Tracking prequels (do any series do that besides Stars War and Trek?) seems nightmarish at best.
*tag is a bad word choice but I only have a 4.24 edit window - I mean "tag" as in "Rewatch" or "Books Only" - big color flash bit like we have now for First Watch and Rewatch and lah-dee-dah
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:09 PM on September 8, 2014
the words "Doctor Who" in the title are now a link to the show page even though on a previous screen it was a link to the episode instead
I know I'm somewhat alone in disliking that kind of UX*, but when we're going for minimalism I guess I get why that is that way.
*that kind of UX - On one page, you click A and you get B. On B page you click what looks exactly like A and it does C and takes you to D.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:18 PM on September 8, 2014
I know I'm somewhat alone in disliking that kind of UX*, but when we're going for minimalism I guess I get why that is that way.
*that kind of UX - On one page, you click A and you get B. On B page you click what looks exactly like A and it does C and takes you to D.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 12:18 PM on September 8, 2014
I'm another person who'd love to have next/prev episode navigation on FanFare. I only check FanFare irregularly, so I often see a post and want to also see the post for a previous episode. Or, I'll be a few episodes behind on a show, and then once I've caught up I want to read through the threads for the last few episodes in order. Sure, I can keep scrolling to the top, clicking the title to go to the show's page, then selecting the next episode, but…
Instead, at the bottom we've got the "Older" and "Newer" links that go to the previous and next posts on FanFare as a whole, almost always for another show that I haven't watched. Given that there's such a strong ordering for most of the TV FanFare posts, I'd love to see previous/next episode links down there, either in addition to or in place of the sub-site-wide "Older" and "Newer" links.
posted by JiBB at 2:45 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Instead, at the bottom we've got the "Older" and "Newer" links that go to the previous and next posts on FanFare as a whole, almost always for another show that I haven't watched. Given that there's such a strong ordering for most of the TV FanFare posts, I'd love to see previous/next episode links down there, either in addition to or in place of the sub-site-wide "Older" and "Newer" links.
posted by JiBB at 2:45 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
"I'm not sure it's common to sit down and read an entire series worth of threads in order like that."
I don't think it's especially rare, either. With older shows (like with rewatches and first-watches of older shows), there's numerous reasons why someone might want to do this. And then, also, and probably more often, people will be behind on watching a show and will watch numerous episodes in a row or on consecutive days or whatever and will want to read the associated threads as they do so.
There was talk back in the original MetaTalk thread about this sort of thing. It seemed like someone had doubted whether someone would want to read old threads about shows while also not wanting to be spoiled for episodes after those threads. And I mentioned that I used to use TWoP this way all the time as I finally got around to watching shows that I'd missed when they aired. I find it very interesting and nowadays sort of central to my television watching experience to see what other people had to say about an episode immediately after I watch it.
So, like last week, I began watching Real Humans. Over a few days, I watched the first seven episodes of the first season. I'd watch the episode, read the thread, then watch another episode. I got ahead of where the posts have reached, though. (Which reminds me, I feel a lot of weird pressure on posting about a show with regard to the synopsis and all that. I've decided to avoid doing so, but it seems to me that in the case of FanFare the post text is about as unimportant as it could be by MeFi standards and so I wish the post text were optional.)
And then some people may just want to spend some time reading posts for a show that way, independent of watching it. Like, say, maybe someone is curious to see how people's thoughts about a show evolved as a season developed.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:45 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's especially rare, either. With older shows (like with rewatches and first-watches of older shows), there's numerous reasons why someone might want to do this. And then, also, and probably more often, people will be behind on watching a show and will watch numerous episodes in a row or on consecutive days or whatever and will want to read the associated threads as they do so.
There was talk back in the original MetaTalk thread about this sort of thing. It seemed like someone had doubted whether someone would want to read old threads about shows while also not wanting to be spoiled for episodes after those threads. And I mentioned that I used to use TWoP this way all the time as I finally got around to watching shows that I'd missed when they aired. I find it very interesting and nowadays sort of central to my television watching experience to see what other people had to say about an episode immediately after I watch it.
So, like last week, I began watching Real Humans. Over a few days, I watched the first seven episodes of the first season. I'd watch the episode, read the thread, then watch another episode. I got ahead of where the posts have reached, though. (Which reminds me, I feel a lot of weird pressure on posting about a show with regard to the synopsis and all that. I've decided to avoid doing so, but it seems to me that in the case of FanFare the post text is about as unimportant as it could be by MeFi standards and so I wish the post text were optional.)
And then some people may just want to spend some time reading posts for a show that way, independent of watching it. Like, say, maybe someone is curious to see how people's thoughts about a show evolved as a season developed.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:45 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Whoah. Yeah, that series page is new to me too, for exactly the reason Buttons Bellbottom enumerates — I just clicked that post title one level up and it behaved differently, taking me to the post itself. Why would I click it again?
Notably, I use the plain theme, and it's not evident that the series name is linked (or that the episode name isn't)—seems to be no visual differentiation between linked and unlinked h1 text. Now that I've switched to default, I see what's happening, but I've been using tags to get a list of all episodes, and shaking a virtual fist at poorly tagged posts.
posted by mumkin at 6:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Notably, I use the plain theme, and it's not evident that the series name is linked (or that the episode name isn't)—seems to be no visual differentiation between linked and unlinked h1 text. Now that I've switched to default, I see what's happening, but I've been using tags to get a list of all episodes, and shaking a virtual fist at poorly tagged posts.
posted by mumkin at 6:54 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
ah, thanks for letting us know about the problem with titles in the plain theme. Those links should look more like links now.
posted by pb (staff) at 10:27 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by pb (staff) at 10:27 PM on September 8, 2014
Okay just tried browsing on a phone screen. PITA! Next/Prev existing episode link would be majorly helpfull.
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 3:02 AM on September 9, 2014
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 3:02 AM on September 9, 2014
I am another person who has often longed for Prev Ep/Next Ep buttons.
posted by Rock Steady at 3:31 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Rock Steady at 3:31 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also in favor of prev/next episode links! I keep expecting/wanting the "older"/"newer" post links at the bottom to do that, but they don't... and in FanFare the older/newer post links are useless unless you watch a LOT of TV/movies.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:25 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Westringia F. at 1:25 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't know how often I would ride this pony, but I am pretty sure I would like the Previous and Next buttons. I tend to get a couple of weeks behind once the TV season starts and I'd like to be able to look at last week's chat without chasing around for it.
posted by immlass at 3:48 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by immlass at 3:48 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
"I'm not sure it's common to sit down and read an entire series worth of threads in order like that."
Who are you? Everyone does this. And none of us want mayonnaise.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 4:10 PM on September 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
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posted by pb (staff) at 11:25 AM on September 8, 2014