instantly recognisable classic askme answer pirated on reddit May 30, 2015 2:27 PM   Subscribe

Looks like reddit wasn't smart from the very beginning - this famous AskMe reply was copied on reddit WTF.
posted by Mistress to MetaFilter-Related at 2:27 PM (217 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

Yeah, unattributed copypasta of scarabic's old answer is almost a rite of passage on reddit as far as I can tell. This is far from the first time it's happened; someone will often end up calling it out with a link to the original thread (which is how I end up noticing it in the referrer logs), but attribution corrections don't have the sort of conversational juice that a blind text-dump at the right moment does.

It's almost a shame that copied blocks of text don't take on a little bit of general decay each time; I'd guess at this point people posting it without attribution to reddit and elsewhere are actually posting a copy of a copy of a copy much of the time, and I'd love to be able to hear some tape hiss and reel stress mixed in with the content, at least.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:32 PM on May 30, 2015 [80 favorites]


It's almost a shame that copied blocks of text don't take on a little bit of general decay each time

Hurst, be fart from the wary unspinning...
posted by invitapriore at 2:53 PM on May 30, 2015 [37 favorites]


Thanks a steady diet of forensic file type shows, I'm pretty sure scarabic's answer can be updated to "don't still have the murder weapon on you when the cops come.

Also the leading cause of death is being happily married for 20 years
posted by The Whelk at 2:55 PM on May 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Don't bury the victim in your own backyard," comes up surprisingly often.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:06 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also "don't keep the receipts of the places you bought murder weapons."
posted by The Whelk at 3:10 PM on May 30, 2015 [5 favorites]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.
posted by Miko at 3:12 PM on May 30, 2015 [20 favorites]


I do like that the first comment under the copypasta is the much, much better answer:

Actually, I've watched a lot of The First 48, all you have to do is shut your fucking mouth and not tell people what you did.

that is really how you get away with murder.
posted by Bookhouse at 3:20 PM on May 30, 2015 [17 favorites]


It's got to be a little weird to be known on the internet, more than anything else you've said or done, for something like that comment.

It wasn't that long after that that scarabic faded from the Metafilter ken. I wonder if he was or is still around under another username. (Not that I want him to be unmasked, if so. I just wonder.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:46 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's got to be a little weird to be known on the internet, more than anything else you've said or done, for something like that comment.

Seems it is. A former roommate of mine is a novelist and has written about nine books, which I gather sell decently enough that he can continue writing. At the same time, I virtually never see them in bookstores and even friends who are enthusiasts of the subgenre of genre fiction he writes in seem largely unaware of his works.

On the other hand, back in the Usenet days he wrote a quip that I wager eighty percent of mefites would recognize from its ubiquity online (think of something as common as the observation that if you are not paying for a service then you are not the customer but the product) but it is almost followed by his name.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:56 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's such shitty advice anyways.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:02 PM on May 30, 2015


Well, it worked for me. (it's how I got rid of wendell)
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:35 PM on May 30, 2015 [34 favorites]


Did people learn nothing from Sweeney Todd?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:41 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


From the comments: "I don't know where it is exactly from but I've seen it posted a few times on 4chan."

♪My blood runs cold, my memory has just been sold. ♫
posted by zarq at 4:44 PM on May 30, 2015 [27 favorites]


Did people learn nothing from Sweeney Todd?!

Some shaving techniques, maybe.
posted by jonmc at 5:16 PM on May 30, 2015 [4 favorites]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.

... whenever it's exhumed?
posted by Xavier Xavier at 5:35 PM on May 30, 2015 [8 favorites]


(tough crowd)
posted by Xavier Xavier at 6:27 PM on May 30, 2015 [7 favorites]


(it's how I got rid of wendell)

That didn't end well.
posted by Deoridhe at 6:28 PM on May 30, 2015 [15 favorites]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.

Nice alibi.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:07 PM on May 30, 2015 [13 favorites]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.

It's really Stan Chin's follow up comment that makes the joke. You can just hear the long uncomfortable silence descend on the thread.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:25 PM on May 30, 2015 [18 favorites]


Is it known for sure that scarabic's comment was the original post of it on-line?
posted by umbú at 7:27 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


Threads like that helped me appreciate the people who made Metafilter what it was.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 7:47 PM on May 30, 2015 [5 favorites]


Here it is, kids, this is what it used to be about... Don't complain that it's reflected elsewhere, smile and be proud...
posted by HuronBob at 8:08 PM on May 30, 2015


I wonder if he was or is still around under another username.

He posted a job offering last July. Mebbe he's just been busy.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:09 PM on May 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.

Duly noted.
posted by shmegegge at 8:10 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


Is it known for sure that scarabic's comment was the original post of it on-line?

Someone else had the same question. Never heard from again.
posted by nubs at 8:13 PM on May 30, 2015 [11 favorites]


Don't make a written list of your steps

The last company I worked for hired scarabic last May. We once long ago (almost a decade) had a birthday make-out session. I avoided him for a couple weeks and then we had an awkward, "hey, how's it going see you around the office," chat in the kitchen. I was let go from that job a week or so later and never talked to him again.
posted by bendy at 8:26 PM on May 30, 2015 [3 favorites]


Is it known for sure that scarabic's comment was the original post of it on-line?

Given the depth of the copypasta history a decade later, it's deeply unlikely that a published antecedent wouldn't have turned up as a one-step-further triumphant gotcha, so I think it's safe to say the writing is scarabic's.

The possibility that it was in part directly informed by or paraphrased from other sources exists but requires I think more than just idle speculation to seriously consider; that it was an inspired bit of pastiche is the simple explanation and the only one I'm really inclined to entertain.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:31 PM on May 30, 2015 [3 favorites]


I was let go from that job a week or so later and never talked to him again.

You may have dodged a bullet, there...
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:45 PM on May 30, 2015 [8 favorites]


I've always found this extremely disturbing and not at all ha-ha-ha and hate it whenever it comes up again.

I sort of agree -- it's a good synthesis of advice from any number of crime novels, but I don't find it as funny as obviously many people do. (It also seems really elaborate, when a shovel and a national forest have worked well for generations.)
posted by Dip Flash at 8:49 PM on May 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


It is altogether too elaborate. Real murder is generally gross, sloppy and a lot less thought out.
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on May 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm kinda wondering how you might know this...but I don't want to pressure you for details.
posted by she's not there at 9:01 PM on May 30, 2015


It's funny because it's elaborate. It's the guy who turns to you on the bus and you think he's going to ask you about the weather and then a thesis on an unpredictable topic pours forth. It's the far-too-serious answer to a silly question. It's not funny because it's funny, it's funny because it isn't.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:04 PM on May 30, 2015 [34 favorites]


I'm kinda wondering how you might know this

I know this because I worked as a journalist and read the news and I am also familiar with the phenomenon of violence against women, up to and including incidences of murder. I know this because I live in the world and murder is not some abstract thing that happens only in fiction, film and TV.

It's not funny because it's funny, it's funny because it isn't.

Nothing's objectively funny, and this is one of those things that just doesn't translate as funny to everyone. This is the first time in 10 years I've said anything about it, but after you see it just loved and lauded and praised hundreds of times, it can't hurt to say, just once, it's possible to read it as creepy.
posted by Miko at 9:12 PM on May 30, 2015 [21 favorites]


Nothing's objectively funny

Sure, and I don't in any way mean to say you're wrong for not finding it funny. If you don't find it funny, you don't, and that's entirely legitimate as a response. It's just not objectively unfunny, either. That you don't find it funny is a statement of personal taste, and I totally respect that. But further qualifying that subjective feeling with an explanation that it's "too elaborate" seems kinda silly in its own right, as an implied argument that it's elaborateness isn't or shouldn't be precisely the reason some of us do enjoy its absurd deadpan. Because of course it's too elaborate. It being too elaborate is the joke. Not a joke everybody is required to laugh at, absolutely. But not something the people laughing are misunderstanding or failing to apprehend, either.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:27 PM on May 30, 2015 [16 favorites]


Because of course it's too elaborate. It being too elaborate is the joke.

And hey, the light was on.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:34 PM on May 30, 2015 [9 favorites]


oh god why am I arguing about humor on the weekend, I officially fire myself from this discussion
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:36 PM on May 30, 2015 [51 favorites]

oneswellfoop: "Well, it worked for me. (it's how I got rid of wendell)"
Oh, sure, you say that. You might even believe deep down that it's true, or think that you have personal knowledge of what went down.

Wendell was my nemesis. I'm still here. Just sayin'…
posted by Pinback at 9:40 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


And hey, the light was on.

That joke is complex on different levels. I love how it takes your jadedness about trick jokes and then builds on that expectation to actually take it to a different place. But that different place is still sort of on the same level as a "dad joke," so you feel as if you were tricked, but just not quite in the way you were anticipating.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:56 PM on May 30, 2015


Little known FACT of HISTORY: scarabic is also responsible for "eponysterical."
posted by taz (staff) at 10:02 PM on May 30, 2015 [53 favorites]


Also, I think that moth joke is the most that I've ever thought about the internal workings of a joke. I would really like to see something comprehensive written on joke theory and why it works on various levels (it's not all ironic misdirection, for example), and why it works for some people and not for others.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:04 PM on May 30, 2015


I disguised my voice!
posted by clavdivs at 10:28 PM on May 30, 2015


This thread is a perfect example of why I love all of you so much.
posted by hippybear at 11:18 PM on May 30, 2015 [9 favorites]


so you feel as if you were tricked, but just not quite in the way you were anticipating.

The Aristocrats told me the same thing.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:31 PM on May 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


The Aristocrats told me the same thing.

Correct. I'm thinking, though, in a world in which people already anticipate The Aristocrats and Shaggy Dog Jokes, it took it to a level beyond. That's some good joke development.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:43 PM on May 30, 2015


This thread is a perfect example of why I love all of you so much.
posted by hippybear


And also why I love my kids so much. Science nuts, the pair of them (aged 16 and 13 now), and sometime during the last few years both of them have asked questions about bodies and death and decay and murder and evidence and other related topics. I was strangely thrilled to share scarabic's comment with each of them for the first time, and have their inquisitive little minds blown.

If my kids end up eerily involved with mysterious disappearances of people, I will hold scarabic solely responsible.

(No, I won't. My stepdad knows of some long-forgotten mineshafts... um, never mind.)
posted by malibustacey9999 at 11:44 PM on May 30, 2015 [3 favorites]


WHEN IS THE RUMBLE I CAN CATCH AN EARLY BOAT
posted by vrakatar at 11:56 PM on May 30, 2015


You may have dodged a bullet, there...

Literal bullet or figurative bullet?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:56 PM on May 30, 2015 [1 favorite]


I miss scarabic. I'm really glad that I got to meet him at a meet-up -- if taz hadn't mentioned eponysterical, I was going to.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:17 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


bendy: Don't make a written list of your steps.

Unless you want to lay a false trail and in fact have an even more nefarious methodology for disposal...
posted by biffa at 3:46 AM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


It being too elaborate is the joke.

I know that. I love shaggy dog stories and upended expectations. I don't like this piece because it is about murder, describes dismemberment and disposal of human remains in great detail, and takes that as a subject of hilarity. But I don't need the mechanics of the joke explained to me as if I do not understand humor. I'm just not as distanced from the material as others apparently are, so I can't just say "this is why it works, get it?!"

Like, it's not because I lack a sense of humor that I'm not laughing at this.
posted by Miko at 6:46 AM on May 31, 2015 [10 favorites]


It is a bit disturbing, like a joke that goes on a bit too long, in too much detail about a serious topic. It's something that comes close to being wonderfully creepy, but instead of walking right up to the line and ends with laughter, just unknowingly zips right past it, while pressing down on the accelerator.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Guys, if someone says that they don't find a joke funny, it doesn't always help to explain it to them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:08 AM on May 31, 2015 [18 favorites]


Likewise, when people are laughing, it doesn't always help to say the joke's not funny.

It all balances out.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:20 AM on May 31, 2015 [23 favorites]


when people are laughing, it doesn't always help to say the joke's not funny.

Well, sometimes that's actually important to do. It doesn't always help, but sometimes it contributes to changing a culture where everyone is laughing at something fairly shitty. I wouldn't go so far as to say this is that, not much is at stake here and it's just a goof that for most people is uncomplicated, I understand, but seriously, I've been seeing this thing pop up for 10 years and never said it before. I feel like it can't hurt to just say "this isn't something we all universally agree is awesome." Representing one person's opinion. If you still enjoy it, that's fine. I just wanted to finally say "this is one aspect of MeFi culture I don't enjoy." That should be okay.
posted by Miko at 7:24 AM on May 31, 2015 [39 favorites]


I'm OK with anyone not finding the joke funny. I like the joke, myself, even if there are plenty of personal reasons why it could rub me the wrong way. For whatever reason, it doesn't, but can totally see why it would creep others out.

Arguing over the strength of a joke can he tricky. Not too long ago, a well-meaning friend of mine posted a video called something like "The Autistic Anchorman". To me, it used all the same tired stereotypes of the autistic - flat affect, tone deafness, way too much attention to detail and so forth. So I said so. I was immediately scolded by the parent of an autistic child that they found it funny and I should lighten up. Well OK, but I'm also the parent of an autistic child and found the joke gross and ableist. So who "wins" here and has the final say on whether or not the joke is funny?

No one, that's who. I don't think Miko's missing the joke any more than I think cortex was trying to explain the joke (so much as saying "objecting to the joke on these grounds misses the point"). It's possible for both people to be totally justified in their response, and still respect where each other are coming from, at the same time.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:47 AM on May 31, 2015 [6 favorites]


Sure, that's absolutely right, Miko. I agree with you that it's important to say how you feel about it, and that it doesn't always help. I don't necessarily agree that there's an objective "fairly shitty," nor do I think we can characterize why most people react the way they do, including others who don't think it's so funny. Everyone lives in the world.

I guess if we're thinking seriously about EC's bit of hectoring, instead of my flip reversal (hey it looked good on preview!) I could have said instead, "Well yes but it sometimes does help to explain it to them" and then we'd be talking about whether the urge to explain the joke was coming out of a helpful instinct, or an urge to protect the surprisingly touchy sense surrounding what strikes any one person as funny, or what. But then it would be more and more speculating about what others think, which I'm not particularly comfortable with.

To be honest scarabic's comment never struck me as a joke. I find it all to be a bit too grisly. The spelling gets on my nerves more than anything else.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:48 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


I always assumed 'eponysterical' was probably something a character from the Princess Bride says. But I finished the book yesterday and now that can't the convenient explanation for everything anymore, so I'm happy this post came along and settled the matter.
posted by Ashenmote at 8:02 AM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


What's funny about it is Stan Chin's comment immediately afterward:

"Okay. Awkward."
posted by zarq at 8:02 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


ICS - what you see as "hectoring" was actually a response to a couple people persisting in "no, you just have to look at it this way" persuading even after Miko said that it's just not funny to her.

If you prefer to think of it as "balance", though, then just chalk it up to me trying to balance the "not everyone needs to get every joke"side.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:09 AM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


Okay, sounds good to me.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:16 AM on May 31, 2015


Did people learn nothing from Sweeney Todd?!


I simply don't have the space in my kitchen to roll out that much pastry.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:18 AM on May 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


Like, it's not because I lack a sense of humor that I'm not laughing at this.

There was a random blurb on a Kurt Vonnegut book, Slaughterhouse Five I think, which I remember to this day: "Reading it, we laugh in self-defence." The comment made me feel queasy, but I did laugh.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 8:59 AM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


I feel like we need an 'it's okay to not like things' except for the people who like the thing that the other person doesn't like. Miko didn't say other people couldn't like it, and the elaborate explanations of how no, really, it's actually funny Miko, LIKE THE THING DAMMIT are sort of odd.

The way it's become a kind of touchstone creeps me out more than the original joke did, but that is just me.
posted by winna at 10:01 AM on May 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


It was an edgy joke. The edge is at a different places for different people. It's completely OK not to like it.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:09 AM on May 31, 2015


stavrosthewonderchicken: "It wasn't that long after that that scarabic faded from the Metafilter ken. I wonder if he was or is still around under another username. (Not that I want him to be unmasked, if so. I just wonder.)"

It was terrible advice. He might be in prison for murder.
posted by double block and bleed at 10:10 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


You may have dodged a bullet, there...

Literal bullet or figurative bullet?


Maybe.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:23 AM on May 31, 2015


So at this point there's been ample expressions of both the feelings of pro- and anti- sides regarding this joke, as well as the reasons that both the pro- and anti- sides feel the way they do. There doesn't seem to be anything really at stake in the argument other than the personal feelings of the people discussing it: no site concerns that will give rise to actionable policy changes one way or the other, either official or non. No concerns of fairness or equitable standards for behavior here or elsewhere, one way or the other. No impact that I can see on any discernible group within either the population of commenters on metafilter or the larger population of the world as a whole, nor to any other group in between those two extremes. Essentially: nothing further to be said, regarding the post, that could be filed under either,"I liked it, and here's why", or "I didn't care for it, and here's why", that should matter to anyone other that the person whose feeling it expresses. Maybe I'm just failing to imagine the really interesting and fruitful potential turns that this basic argument might take. But I don't think so.
posted by Ipsifendus at 10:53 AM on May 31, 2015 [4 favorites]


Before I clicked on the link, I thought, "I bet it's the thing about how to hide a body." Then I thought, "I bet people are arguing about humor in the thread."
posted by duffell at 10:59 AM on May 31, 2015 [15 favorites]


Sagacity can precede the link!
posted by clavdivs at 11:01 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'd love to be able to hear some tape hiss and reel stress mixed in with the content, at least

Someone should do the I am sitting in a room treatment with scarabic's comment, perhaps
posted by tigrrrlily at 11:30 AM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is what happens when you report your moral disapproval as if it were more like an aesthetic judgment.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:48 AM on May 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


THOSE sort of comments really aren't that wise.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:03 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


Copypasta's gonna copypasta.

Scarabic's comment is funny to me because it is literally what the OP was asking for. It's funny how it was a violation of social norms to *actually* answer that question. To actually receive such a thing as a response is inherently creepy and ridiculous.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:06 PM on May 31, 2015 [8 favorites]


Scarabic's comment is hilarious because it is so bad, yet so seemingly earnest, some idiot will follow the advice and undoubtedly get caught. For example, even a lazy Googler will discover Dahmer did exactly this (smash parts of the body with a sledgehammer, scatter the parts in different locations, flush pieces down the toilet). He got away because of the era he lived in, in part homophobia played a role. Not for his laughable attempts at hiding the crime. He even had a terrified victim of his torture escape, only to be returned to him by police, due to the prejudice of the time. As for bleach, no that is not likely to erase all the blood or DNA evidence, especially not if you dismember someone in a bathroom (very easy for blood to collect unseen in unreachable areas). The bleach idea has somehow been popularized, which has even led to killers pouring it on their living victims stupidly thinking it will hide their crime - leading to worse charges for the offenders due to the torture they inflicted. Maybe Scarabic is some kind of crime scene investigator purposefully giving bad advice? That would be awesome.
posted by partly squamous and partly rugose at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's as if...
posted by clavdivs at 2:06 PM on May 31, 2015


> That should be okay.

It is okay. It is also okay for people to respond to it.
posted by languagehat at 2:39 PM on May 31, 2015 [11 favorites]


Still though, the first couple of responses quoting Miko were cracking jokes about the fact that she didn't find it funny in any way. Not verboten, but not polite. I always found it a strange answer as well. There are corners of my brain in which I do not wish to dwell. I haven't watched Dexter either.
posted by Roger Dodger at 3:01 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm kinda wondering how you might know this...but I don't want to pressure you for details.

I was kidding, Miko.
posted by she's not there at 4:00 PM on May 31, 2015


Actually, I've watched a lot of The First 48, all you have to do is shut your fucking mouth and not tell people what you did.

I did that! I murdered somebody and haven't said a word for years! Everyone, look what I got away with by being discreet!

...wait. Shit.
posted by Rangi at 4:24 PM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


I thought jokes weren't allowed on AskMe.
#burn
posted by sylvanshine at 4:26 PM on May 31, 2015


Y'all are makin' it too complicated. Pa allus tol' me "don't be killin' nothin' you don't mean to eat", and that's all you need to know here, either.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:20 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


Need Frowner to weigh in against to close the circle.
posted by nom de poop at 5:36 PM on May 31, 2015


Scarabic's reminds me of some torturey bits by Iain Banks; I find those unpleasant to read, too, but those are at least conceptually in the right place. This isn't, which is why it's sort-of funny.

A lot of humour is about feeling awkward, and that comment does it for me (as its followup noted). It's because it's not the response you're expecting - you'd expect something more like "throw it in a big lake!" or "set fire to it!" So you have this long, intense analysis, that makes it look as though the author has been thinking about it way too much. If it was on a different subject it would be highlighted as an excellent answer, the sort of useful thing you should keep around for when you need it. In this case, though, the subject matter makes that inappropriate for all sorts of reasons. So, for me, it's awkward-humour. It's not the funniest thing I've ever read, but it's funny enough for me to cite it when a relevant question arises.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:05 PM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Metafilter is smart, and Reddit is dumb.

But Reddit doesn't know how dumb it is, which makes it look even dumber, and pretty soon you just feel kind of sorry for Reddit and you don't laugh at it when the other websites do, but then one day it stupidly tries to grab your ice cream cone by the ice cream and then you blow your stack and say, "Jeez, you really ARE dumb, Reddit!" and then Reddit bursts into awful, uncontrolled tears, big, unselfconscious, honking sobs that seem to be getting louder, and then you feel awful and empathic, and you know Reddit doesn't really have any friends (even 4chan) and you try to comfort Reddit by saying you're really sorry, please don't cry, Reddit, you know that the other websites are so mean to Reddit, and you know what it's like to be different, and you were just very upset, and then Reddit stops crying and laughs at you and you feel like an idiot and you just kick Reddit in the nuts and go read your book under a tree until recess is over.

Later in life, you find out that Reddit went to USC and works on Wall Street. The end.
posted by clockzero at 6:45 PM on May 31, 2015 [47 favorites]


Sometimes I think about grabbing ice cream by the ice cream and fight the shackles of routine and intended purpose but I know I'd just end up with sticky hands and not much good would come of it.

Then I remember I don't like ice cream -that- much and go buy salted caramel and champagne instead and later pass out pleasantly in front of bad Youtube videos.
posted by solarion at 7:15 PM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is what happens when you report your moral disapproval as if it were more like an aesthetic judgment.

Is that directed at me? I really don't think of it as an aesthetic judgment. I'm also not sure there's a huge line between these things, given the history of humor as used in moral position-taking.
posted by Miko at 7:24 PM on May 31, 2015


Metafilter: grabbing ice cream by the ice cream
posted by clockzero at 7:24 PM on May 31, 2015 [12 favorites]


I am Facebook friends with scarabic. He does, in fact, seem very busy and happy and well. Yay.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:26 PM on May 31, 2015 [7 favorites]


I love how Metafilter has one of those rivalries with Reddit that only one side is even aware of.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:33 PM on May 31, 2015 [14 favorites]


sylvanshine: "I thought jokes weren't allowed on AskMe.
#burn
"

This was in the olden times, it was a little looser then.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:55 PM on May 31, 2015


I'm glad to hear my reaction is okay. Repeatedly.
posted by phearlez at 8:33 PM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


I love how Metafilter has one of those rivalries with Reddit that only one side is even aware of.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:33 PM on May 31


So this is where I say, "what's reddit?"

I always thought scarabin's was a great joke in concept (answering too explicitly a questionable question) and execution but I don't particularly like it 'cause I can't see past the 'murder' that kicked it all off. Because I have kids and have gone soft.
Similar but different the Aristocrats was never a fool proof joke either. If you pare it down, way down, it's bones are weak - "I have an act.""what's your act?""we come out and do some really Gross stuff.""ok, what do you call yourself?""the aristocrats!" There's only one axis the joke operates on - maybe when there was an aristocracy this might have gone further, the joke, but today it doesn't. That said in the hands of a good performer or context (GGottfried in 2001 at the Friars Club) it can be x-times better.
The moth joke is perfect as it's all built in: anyone could tell the joke medium well and get a laugh - the humor is not contingent on the performer. It's also first cousin of Henny Youngman, I guess you could say: expectations are explicitly built up by the language of the joke and then undercut/subverted. There this great joke 'form' in German that the kids tell to each other (endlessly, like knock knock jokes) - there's no good way to translate them unfortunately but here's an example, "Allen steht das Wasser bis zum Hals; außer Heiner - der ist kleiner."
The joke turns on the alliteration of the name, so, "The kids stand in water up to their necks, except for Mort who is too short." Is the idea. Here's a page of them.

Which is all to say It's nice the joke is out there but I don't go back and think of it.

"Now I'm gonna go and Google this 'reddit' thing, see what the hell is up with that."
posted by From Bklyn at 8:58 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's like we're Ephesus, and hating on the debauchery of NYC. As it happens some of the best archaeologists and historians are also from NYC, some of our fav people, the most important of our community are from there. So these ideas - "NYC doesn't even know we exist" or "NYC is such low quality crap compared to us" or even "NYC is a lot like us just give it a chance" - they are all true in a way and also completely off the mark.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:37 PM on May 31, 2015


Be a Durst.
posted by Artw at 9:38 PM on May 31, 2015


I honestly didn't know that post was a joke and people thought it was actually funny like "funny ha ha". I thought it was just a weird thing that happened.
posted by bleep at 9:46 PM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


"It is altogether too elaborate. Real murder is generally gross, sloppy and a lot less thought out."

Which is why they get caught!

"Is that directed at me? I really don't think of it as an aesthetic judgment. I'm also not sure there's a huge line between these things, given the history of humor as used in moral position-taking."

It is an aesthetic judgment that you're making, unless you're going to say that people can't like the joke without being bad people. (And aesthetic judgments have just as long a history in moral position taking.)
posted by klangklangston at 10:01 PM on May 31, 2015 [2 favorites]


I had no idea Durst was from NYC.
posted by clavdivs at 10:04 PM on May 31, 2015


Yeah, fuck morality, this is about ethics.
posted by clavdivs at 10:05 PM on May 31, 2015


Actually, it's about ethics in murder advice.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:28 PM on May 31, 2015 [20 favorites]


*lizard blink*
posted by Artw at 10:39 PM on May 31, 2015


Metafilter: grabbing ice cream by the ice cream

Take it easy! There's plenty to go around, sticky fingers.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 11:26 PM on May 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


RATIONING1!!1!!1!
posted by clockzero at 11:52 PM on May 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


thanks obama
posted by klangklangston at 12:01 AM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


fun fact: approximately 30% of reddit is ~edgy copypasta~ by volume
posted by NoraReed at 2:30 AM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


From Scarabic's job offering posted above: You are an active member of at least one large online community - and you post often. You're addicted to Reddit, Twitter, and Instagram.
For all we know he may have posted the copypasta himself on Reddit.
posted by elgilito at 4:24 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


What the fuck if NYC? Is this something I need a flatscreen tv to understand?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:55 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Fred Durst is from Florida, you phillistines. Alright, cmon, everyone line up and turn in your chained wallets and jorts.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:01 AM on June 1, 2015


smooth move, ferguson.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:09 AM on June 1, 2015


We can put the nail in this coffin now, right? We seem to be all done here.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 6:12 AM on June 1, 2015


*lines up, turns in chained wallet, walks away, chain pulls wallet after*
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:14 AM on June 1, 2015 [8 favorites]


> It is an aesthetic judgment that you're making, unless you're going to say that people can't like the joke without being bad people.

Frankly, I think that's what she is saying, even if she won't come right out and say it.
posted by languagehat at 7:46 AM on June 1, 2015 [4 favorites]


Yup.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:33 AM on June 1, 2015


What's with the jorts hate? This turned so ugly so fast.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:36 AM on June 1, 2015 [4 favorites]


We should be keeping our hate directed at where it's best deserved: writers.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:42 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


What's with the jorts hate?

Because some of us find jorts to be much, much more disturbing than graphic descriptions of corpse dismemberment.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:42 AM on June 1, 2015


Jorts are still better than rompers.
posted by maryr at 8:51 AM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


Frankly, I think that's what she is saying, even if she won't come right out and say it.

That's just, like, you're opinion, man...
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:56 AM on June 1, 2015 [4 favorites]


Everyone is hereby exonerated for their taste in: jokes, summerwear below the waist, and Idris Elba.

Go forth and sin no more.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:04 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Peace be with you, peace be with you, peacebe withyou, peace be with you, peacebewithyou. *handshakes all around*
posted by maryr at 9:07 AM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


I hate that part of the Episcopal church service. Makes me uncomfortable.
posted by JanetLand at 9:10 AM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think there's a distinction between, "I, personally, am made somewhat uncomfortable by this thing," and "You are a bad person for liking it."

Personally, I find stuff like Saw and Human Centipede extremely repellant, but if you like them, I don't think you are a bad human being.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:12 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


It is jorts love which is questionable my fine friend. Even the Geneva Convention says so. Look it up if you don't believe me.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:16 AM on June 1, 2015


Skorts are hotter.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:25 AM on June 1, 2015


I'd go so far as to say it was really only funny in the context of AskMe at that point in its development. It was a pretty informal, casual, jokey place in the early days, and the fact that this question got such a serious, well-thought out, detailed answer was the joke.

For what it's worth, I understand Miko's discomfort with it. It's weird the way murder can become subject matter for comedy and light entertainment in a way that other, "lesser" crimes cannot. I think if the question were about how to commit child abuse or car theft and get away with it, no one would find it funny.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:30 AM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


A lawyer defending a man accused of burglary tried this creative defense:

"My client merely inserted his arm into the window and removed a few
trifling articles. His arm is not himself, and I fail to see how you can
punish the whole individual for an offense committed by his limb."

"Well put," the judge replied. "Using your logic, I sentence the defendant's
arm to one year's imprisonment. He can accompany it or not, as he chooses."

The defendant smiled. With his lawyer's assistance he detached his
artificial limb, laid it on the bench, and walked out.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:48 AM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


I really appreciate that Miko said what she said, and I've also enjoyed scarabic's post in its original setting. I'm not loving the second-guessing of Miko's intentions.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:50 AM on June 1, 2015 [12 favorites]


Frankly, I think that's what she is saying, even if she won't come right out and say it.

Finding a joke creepy doesn't mean the person telling it is a creep.
posted by zarq at 10:21 AM on June 1, 2015 [6 favorites]


Jorts are still better than rompers.

So we're awarding "tallest Munchkin to greet Dorothy" awards, are we?
posted by phearlez at 10:22 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


So am I the only one who reads that comment being narrated by Mikkelsen's Hannibal Lecter the same way one would handle a how-to segment on a home-improvement show?

Yes? Okay.
posted by bgal81 at 10:54 AM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


I had no idea until this thread that the comment is considered a joke? This makes discussions of that comment make a lot more sense? I am somewhat less confused by life in some ways, but have added confusion about humor to the pile. Win?
posted by stoneweaver at 11:08 AM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Because some of us find jorts to be much, much more disturbing than graphic descriptions of corpse dismemberment."

The last time I took my bike on the subway, I had a couple of women make an awkward thing out of letting me go first on the escalator so that they could take selfies with my ass in jean shorts. From their giggling, I was not led to believe that it was because they found the shorts grotesque.

(Unfortunately, Levi seems to not make them anymore, which is a shame. I bought a pair last year and would buy another pair if I could but the only ones I see are a hot pink pair from Portugal that already sold on eBay.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:44 AM on June 1, 2015


Any garment Kevin Smith's fir, I'm agin'.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:48 AM on June 1, 2015


The greatest trick Kevin Smith ever pulled was convincing the world he wears really long jorts rather than highwaters.
posted by griphus at 12:04 PM on June 1, 2015 [8 favorites]


Peace be with you, peace be with you, peacebe withyou, peace be with you, peacebewithyou. *handshakes all around*

PLUR, dude.

He posted a job offering last July.

You see, If you ask me, that's as much an exercise in exceedingly dry humor as the murder sketch. (Altho I guess it's possible that what sounds sardonic to me is simply straight-forward prose in the tech industry.)
posted by octobersurprise at 12:06 PM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


griphus: "The greatest trick Kevin Smith ever pulled was convincing the world he wears really long jorts rather than highwaters."

Those are some wide-legged highwaters, if that's the case.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:36 PM on June 1, 2015


Wide-legged highwaters were a thing for a while.

DID YOU NOT RAVE SIR?!
posted by klangklangston at 1:11 PM on June 1, 2015 [8 favorites]


Jorts are still better than rompers.

This is the second random anti-romper comment I've read today on a public forum unrelated to rompers so I'm going to call it and say that Romper Backlash is officially underway.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:55 PM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


TIL people above the age of two apparently wear rompers. WTF.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 2:04 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


"This is the second random anti-romper comment I've read today on a public forum unrelated to rompers so I'm going to call it and say that Romper Backlash is officially underway."

I kinda think rompers are a terrible look for most anyone, but as aforementioned I'm on Team Jorts and I also try to avoid getting into the whole, "This thing that is trendy for young women is terrible" discussion.

(It also goes along with my continued bafflement that at the number of young people who are taking fashion cues from Full House reruns.)
posted by klangklangston at 2:25 PM on June 1, 2015


TIL people above the age of two apparently wear rompers. WTF.

A quick google search turns up rompers that look like this. They look perfectly fine.
posted by zarq at 2:49 PM on June 1, 2015


Honestly, that looks to me like lingerie, but the general complaint I've heard about them from women is that because they're generally one-piece garments, they're hell to use the bathroom in.
posted by klangklangston at 3:02 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


They don't have the snap crotch like the babies' rompers? Double WTF.

Seriously though, there is nothing cuter than a toddler in a romper.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 3:19 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


A lot of 'em don't, no. They're basically just shorts sewn to a blouse. Some have zippered backs but then you're still having to basically take off the whole outfit to pee.

(My peer group includes many women with strong feelings on rompers. Or, more accurately, my peer group includes many women with strong feelings on many things, rompers being one of them.)
posted by klangklangston at 3:25 PM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


Fact is, Miko said the joke was "altogether too elaborate" and opened the door for the "but that's why it's funny!" aesthetic response. From context we know she also *hates* the joke and has more familiarity with the grisly reality of murder than your average MeFite.

Realistically I don't think Miko thinks people are bad for liking the joke but like me probably thinks it's taken on legs precisely for appearing in the Metafilter zeitgeist when it did and picking up traction. I cringed at cortex explaining the joke but also feel a pull to take sides on the "it's a joke" thing because I'm a contrarian.

On a related note is anyone getting sick of edgy pedophilia jokes? Fucking Louis CK and his SNL bit were such garbage. Get off the topic, it's hackery. He tied his hands by making a vow to renew material each year but the pedophilia shit is over the top.
posted by aydeejones at 3:45 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


(Total stand up geek who loves Louis CK and being pushed against all boundaries. But seriously there is so much "up" to be punching at right now, when I hear old stand ups like Eddie Murphy make fun of homosexuals I feel similar disgust.)
posted by aydeejones at 3:47 PM on June 1, 2015


Also to me it's only a joke in the context of "hacker zines" that explained how to commit all manner of crimes from the perspective of sheltered nerds who haven't committed any of those crimes. Like a breathless high school kid telling you what he learned from CSI but someone convinced you to pay the guy 5 bucks for his advice and he's hiding behind a disguise.
posted by aydeejones at 3:49 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Eh, I cringed at me explaining the joke too, but it wasn't an attempt to bring understanding to the unwashed or anything. My interest in outlining my personal structural take on it just sort of outran my "is there anything interesting about my opinion?" filter for a bit that night.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:54 PM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


my ass in jean shorts

aforementioned I'm on Team Jorts


I see this confusion come up a lot. Realizing "jorts" is a portmanteau of jeans and shorts, jorts are not jean shorts; they are more accurately 3/4 length jeans. Jean shorts is something Tom Selleck was rocking in Magnum PI. Jorts are rocked by Kevin Smith, toddlers, and bronies.

On a related note is anyone getting sick of edgy pedophilia jokes?

I mean ... yes? I don't know anyone apart from Louis CK or the occasional edgelord on /b/ who ever makes these jokes anymore though. I do remember that when Truly Tasteless Jokes was popular, there were a slew of them kids not much older than the subject matter liked to bandy about. But so far even my JE SUIS CHARLIE free speech warrior FB friends aren't rushing to defend that SNL bit, though I am positive a number of them are and just have the good sense to Custom block me from their screeds.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:08 PM on June 1, 2015


"I see this confusion come up a lot. Realizing "jorts" is a portmanteau of jeans and shorts, jorts are not jean shorts; they are more accurately 3/4 length jeans. Jean shorts is something Tom Selleck was rocking in Magnum PI. Jorts are rocked by Kevin Smith, toddlers, and bronies.

This is not a distinction I have ever seen made.

I want to believe, but it seems like a lot of people just hate jean shorts in general without the finer parsing.
posted by klangklangston at 5:25 PM on June 1, 2015


I am pro-jean shorts and have been since the days I used to wear my tennis socks up to my knees, tyvm.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:36 PM on June 1, 2015


>My interest in outlining my personal structural take on it just sort of outran my "is there anything interesting about my opinion?" filter for a bit that night.

You've come to the right place.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:49 PM on June 1, 2015


Okay, so what ARE jorts then?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:58 PM on June 1, 2015


> Okay, so what ARE jorts then?

$20 SAIT
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:03 PM on June 1, 2015 [10 favorites]


Okay, so what ARE jorts then?

Well, it's not quite a jean, and it's not quite a short, but man... heh, heh, heh.
So to answer your question: I don't know.
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:15 PM on June 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Jorts explained.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:22 PM on June 1, 2015


Cortex, I think the mods were pretty clear about asking you to stay away from this discussion.
posted by nobody at 8:01 PM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]


(Oops. Thought I refreshed first. Didn't realize four hours and 10 or so comments had passed.)
posted by nobody at 8:02 PM on June 1, 2015


Okay, awkward.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:11 PM on June 1, 2015 [5 favorites]


Frankly, I think that's what she is saying, even if she won't come right out and say it.

Jesus, you guys. I know for some reason you've become President and Treasurer of the hating on me club, but this just makes me sad. Fucking depressing, really. Third person, too - nice touch.

I think there's a distinction between, "I, personally, am made somewhat uncomfortable by this thing," and "You are a bad person for liking it."

Seriously. I don't think any of you are bad people. I know better than that. But I do think it's worth saying that positive estimations of this comment aren't universal. I think it's something maybe people just don't think about much, or don't realize how it rings for others. I've kept this thought to myself for a long time and chose this time to share it. It offers no judgment on people; I'm sharing how this strikes me and has always struck me, which is, unpleasantly. I can't get enough detachment from it to find it funny.
posted by Miko at 9:17 PM on June 1, 2015 [3 favorites]



(It also goes along with my continued bafflement that at the number of young people who are taking fashion cues from Full House reruns.)


I just keep seeing the rayon calico flowy 90s dress of my teenaged dreams, the kind you wear with the Doc Martens I could buy if I spent real money on decent shoes, from afar in TJMaxx and I get all excited and I rush over and it's a romper or jumpsuit and ugh, noooooooo, you are ruining my chance to dress like the cast of Realty Bites now that to get to pick my own clothing, BRING BACK DALIA'S.

So, in conclusion, I really just want the non-suit half of Rebecca's wardrobe.
posted by maryr at 10:45 PM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


You all are ignoring a very important question - what is the moth joke?
posted by Deoridhe at 10:46 PM on June 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


Come to a meetup in Portland, I am apparently incapable of not telling it after a few beers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:50 PM on June 1, 2015 [4 favorites]


I do not get why people are so eager to make the jump from "I find this thing problematic" to "I find this thing problematic and you, person who liked it, are a bad person for liking it, and you should definitely go on and on and on about why that person is wrong to not like it". Especially when the discussion is about if something is creepy or not, because getting all weird about Miko is WAAYYYY creepier than anyone would've judged you as being for liking the thing.
posted by NoraReed at 11:01 PM on June 1, 2015 [6 favorites]


"I do not get why people are so eager to make the jump from "I find this thing proble..."

I don't either, don't really care. I think we should care, I'm just saying I don't care, I see people laughing and a little remembering and some people have to emotionally JAQ the thread but that's me, need to examine that...I have.
I got a ton of American in Japanese prison camp jokes...no? Tastless, off topic.

The humor helped them survive.
To interject a moral opinion on an immoral subject that is a "joke" smacks of insencerity. But let us all walk forth, chained wallets and hair spray reclaimed.
Remember the 20$ bill found near the check out isle. Creepy is a bug with 50 short legs or Vincent price buying up boxes of bubble gum and kiwi shoe polish.
Dust off Chaplin, and I'm going to go watch 'inherent vice' and write another letter to Pynchon, the ones were I natter at his referents and
{scratch/scratch}
interject glossy cod piece Rabelais Jack daw mutherfuckin scrim saw
Got hee haw mayn'naygeneralklangkickinindahigherland
Smoke it, like a fire wire shim sham
Crawling down 9 mile glum flam qounsar in the backeackinwitdaaxe
Screaming Orgone hexagons...

And then we go for 4:00 am omlets.
posted by clavdivs at 1:36 AM on June 2, 2015


Uh...

OK I was only able to parse the first 2 sentences of the second paragraph, I think. All I can say is there is a world of difference between "here's me using humor about my situation" and "here's me using humor about your/their situation." That's not insincerity; it's basic human kindness. But that's assuming I'm even reading this word salad correctly.

Quite the treatise on humor from Miko's harmless input here.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:00 AM on June 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


"I do not get why people are so eager to make the jump from 'I find this thing problematic' to 'I find this thing problematic and you, person who liked it, are a bad person for liking it, and you should definitely go on and on and on about why that person is wrong to not like it.' Especially when the discussion is about if something is creepy or not, because getting all weird about Miko is WAAYYYY creepier than anyone would've judged you as being for liking the thing."

I read Miko's comments when she wrote them, re-read them again before I wrote my previous comment, and now have reconsidered them in light of her most recent comment. On the first reading, I felt like she was primarily reporting her dissent from the community praise and her mild discomfort with scarabic's comment. On the second reading, her "saying something is shitty" stuff jumped out more strongly to me and I felt like the implicit moral judgment of the comment and the community praise for it was pretty clear. But in her most recent comment, I'm back to thinking that her intent was pretty much just to signal her discomfort without implying any negative judgments of other people.

The thing is, when you discuss your discomfort about scarabic's comment specifically with regard to violence against women and spousal murder and such, that pretty strongly implies an ethical argument which will apply to other people's celebration of the comment.

And that's okay. It's the discussion we have had about racist humor and rape jokes and sexually violent media. I'm happy to say that people who enjoy racist humor are wrong to do so and are participating in racism. I'm not at all sympathetic to the "I just like what I like" defense. And I think that the issues Miko has about the comment are valid. Miko also disavowed that she was merely objecting on an aesthetic basis, which is obvious because, again, she explicitly appealed to a set of social and ethical problems she thinks are implicit in the comment and in people's celebration of it.

But she also doesn't really want to engage on this head-on, the way that, for example, she probably would with racist humor. And that's also okay. Over my re-reads of her comments taken in total, and the discussion, my overall strong impression is that this is one of those things where you feel that there's something problematic about something, so you don't really like it and, especially, you sense that there's something not right about it being very popular and people praising it without recognition of those problems -- but you also are aware that you're in an minority, your feelings aren't very strong and distinct, maybe you're partly having an idiosyncratic reaction to it, and so you end up registering your dissent with a nod to those things that you think are problematic while mostly trying to avoid judging other people's positive opinion about it.

This makes a lot of sense to me, as a normal human thing to do, but it's also why I wrote my previous comment. My sense is that partly basing her criticism on these actually objective things which are arguably problematic very much implies some amount of disapproval of other people's celebration of the comment, and people are quite naturally going to react to that. But reporting it primarily as a subjective experience, as a "just my opinion" thing, makes it sound like it's more an aesthetic judgment, that the joke wasn't funny or just that she simply didn't like it. And that sort of thing really is mostly immune from questioning -- it really is okay to "like" or "dislike" something. But people end up always interrogating and challenging people on this sort of thing -- no, it really is funny, let me explain to you how it's really funny -- so in this thread we got that sort of response, too. All this thoroughly confuses the issue, which is why I wrote that this sort of confusion is what results when you express something that is implicitly moral disapproval, a normative judgment of other people, as if it were just reporting your own subjective experience. The implicit moral disapproval was very mild -- and, again, I think Miko intended it to be subtextual and not challenging -- but it still was there and when you bring in the very real issue of men killing women partners or those they've been stalking, that's fairly highly charged and solidly places this in social ethics territory.

Personally, while I mostly don't share Miko's concerns about the comment or the praise of it, I think that those concerns are reasonable. Insofar as she raised those issues, I would have liked for people in the discussion to have engaged with them. That the responses were more like "let me explain the humor to you" really annoyed me.

But some of my annoyance was at Miko because, though I'm sure with the best of intentions, she sort of set this up so that while her comments imply that there's something wrong with celebrating scarabic's answer, and so to some degree naturally inspired some defensiveness in others, she also made it so that she didn't really have to support this implicit criticism of others because she framed it in terms of simply reporting her own feelings.

There're people who do this all the time in really shitty ways where it's clearly passive-aggressive judgment of other people but with plausible deniability -- people report on their "disilike" of a certain behaviors or identities as if it were merely an aesthetic judgment or otherwise just a matter of personal taste when, in fact, it clearly isn't.

Knowing Miko, I don't think she was doing this. I think, as I wrote above, she was just trying to navigate this territory in ways that she thought were tactful. But it's no surprise that some people would read her comments as "you're all bad people for celebrating scarabic's comment".
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:42 AM on June 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm going to ask that we drop this now. We've had a lot of weird and unnecessarily personal dissection of Miko's comment and it's spiralled into a strange microscopic examination of what was basically an, "oh hm, I feel differently about this, actually" comment, and I agree with Ipsifendus above that there's really no benefit to continuing this as a function of Metatalk.

If people want to talk about being able to express/accept statements of disagreement without implying/assuming moral judgment, that would work better as general discussion in this thread.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:59 AM on June 2, 2015 [13 favorites]


I agree with taz.

Also, I only recently realized what jorts actually are.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:09 AM on June 2, 2015


Maybe close this up then!
posted by cjorgensen at 4:34 AM on June 2, 2015


Jorts... meh. But jeggings! Jeggings are the worst.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:40 AM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


The thing about jeggings is that they work for some people, including some of my friends. So I think they belong in the category of things to hate because I can't pull them off.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:44 AM on June 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


Have you tried pulling harder?
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:46 AM on June 2, 2015 [20 favorites]


there's really no benefit to continuing this as a function of Metatalk.

Then, play us out ... Morrissey ...
posted by octobersurprise at 5:34 AM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Jeggings are the worst.

As someone who wore Fashionable Jeans from 2004-2014, jeggings (sorry, "Men's Legging Jean") were a welcome respite from them.
posted by griphus at 7:33 AM on June 2, 2015


False dichotomy.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:57 AM on June 2, 2015


No, they were from Uniqlo. I can't afford clothes from False Dichotomy.
posted by griphus at 8:22 AM on June 2, 2015 [14 favorites]


I buy all my clothes at No True Scotsman.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 AM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


i bought my clothes from ad hominem but every time i wore them people called me fat
posted by NoraReed at 9:01 AM on June 2, 2015


NO TRUE SCOTSMAN: FINE IMITATION PLAIDS
posted by NoraReed at 9:02 AM on June 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


NO TRUE SCOTSMAN: FINE IMITATION PLAIDS

I am intrigued and wish to contribute to your Kickstarter.
posted by metaquarry at 9:03 AM on June 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I buy all my clothes at No True Scotsman.

The one downtown, or some branch store?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:08 AM on June 2, 2015 [12 favorites]


Is No True Scotsman the same place that sells those vintage axes with the replaced heads and handles?
posted by griphus at 9:13 AM on June 2, 2015


Ok, so how do we feel about cut-offs then? And is ice cream still in the mix, or?
posted by clockzero at 9:14 AM on June 2, 2015


the same place that sells those vintage axes with the replaced heads and handles?

that's Theseus Outfitters.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:27 AM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


That place hasn't been the same since the renovations, to tell you the truth.
posted by griphus at 9:31 AM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Cut-offs are great. I used to get mine from Sealion's, but the salespeople were way too pushy.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:52 AM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I prefer to have my cut-offs tailored at Mood Affiliation, because they're locally-owned and operated. My friends swear by the cut-offs at Motivated Skepticism, but I hate chains.
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:02 AM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


You can get good stuff at Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes, but I'm not wild about their anti-theft measures.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:28 AM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


These pants I got at Herbal Outfitters smell funny, but I've been doing a lot better with dairy since I started wearing them, so ice cream's in.
posted by maryr at 11:59 AM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Herbal Outfitters

Okay, no, seriously, I've been looking around on eBay for "pesmetals" (Turkish hamam towels), and one Turkish vendor I'm interested in advertises (some of) theirs as made of "herbal silk," which I cannot figure out. Is that like... hemp cloth, maybe? Bamboo? Or does it just totally mean "not-silk, not-cotton, not even close, probably straight-up polyester," the way "Tibetan silver" means "absolutely, totally, really, really not-silver"?
posted by taz (staff) at 12:20 PM on June 2, 2015


I get my cut-offs at Qualifications, except but in the case of
posted by clockzero at 12:20 PM on June 2, 2015


Could be rayon maybe? (which is made from plant fibers)
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:27 PM on June 2, 2015


Herbal Silk sounds like an incense flavor.
posted by maryr at 12:34 PM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Look, enough with the Herbal Silk, your mom fucking knows you're smoking pot in there.
posted by maryr at 12:34 PM on June 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


Herbal Silk is never gonna overpower the smell of some dank Tibetan Silver
posted by griphus at 12:43 PM on June 2, 2015


Well, at least we know who to avoid at office parties.
posted by y2karl at 12:47 PM on June 2, 2015


So this is what we do instead of recipes now. Huh.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:59 PM on June 2, 2015


Cut-offs are great. I used to get mine from Sealion's, but the salespeople were way too pushy.

Were they?
posted by klangklangston at 4:46 PM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I just came in here to see if something in this thread was responsible for three different people favoriting three different old comments of mine yesterday, but apparently not. I'm slightly baffled.

Carry on.
posted by MexicanYenta at 5:11 PM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Going up?
posted by clavdivs at 6:14 PM on June 2, 2015


No, I think folks are lining up outside just to get down.
posted by maryr at 6:51 PM on June 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


I just came in here to see if something in this thread was responsible for three different people favoriting three different old comments of mine yesterday, but apparently not. I'm slightly baffled.

Carry on.


Me, too. It is very odd and doesn't usually happen to me without them being linked in a thread like this.
posted by stoneweaver at 9:20 PM on June 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Huh.
posted by clavdivs at 2:16 AM on June 3, 2015


I just came in here to see if something in this thread was responsible for three different people favoriting three different old comments of mine yesterday, but apparently not. I'm slightly baffled.

Carry on.

Me, too. It is very odd and doesn't usually happen to me without them being linked in a thread like this.


When browsing Metafilter I often click on people's usernames and look through their top comments. It's completely arbitrary. I find much good material this way.

Both your names show up as clicked here so this is probably partially my fault since I was in this thread. Sorry.
posted by solarion at 5:31 AM on June 3, 2015


That's ok! It's just usually because there's something interesting going on, and it's like a trail of bread crumbs back to it. SLEUTHING
posted by stoneweaver at 9:01 AM on June 3, 2015


No, I think folks are lining up outside just to get down.

We have ice cream, everybody's wearing pretentious jean fractions, we've got some Herbal Silk and Tibetan Silver, let's turn this mother out
posted by clockzero at 9:41 AM on June 3, 2015


Am I laccking in reading comprehension or has the moth joke not been told?

Is... is that it? Is that the joke? Oh god, I'm so lost.
posted by Braeburn at 11:18 AM on June 3, 2015


It's better as a story told live, without notes.
posted by maryr at 1:06 PM on June 3, 2015


clavdivs: "Going up?"

One going up, one coming down, but we seem to land on common ground.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:47 PM on June 3, 2015


Is... is that it? Is that the joke? Oh god, I'm so lost.

I'm guessing traveling North and getting Cortex drunk is integral to the joke. And/or Cortex likes people buying him drinks.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:54 PM on June 3, 2015


Previously.
posted by team lowkey at 3:17 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think in any good relationship we can say that we don't like something (aesthetically because we find it kind of gross), challenge ourselves corporately regarding why we like a kind of thing (which can have a moral component to it, as a lot of personal growth does), but also say that we are not bad people simply because we have some of our moral judgments or internal dispositions challenged. I like Miko, I think she was right to bring this up (all I have to do is replace this joke with an Aristocrats joke, and I'd feel exactly the same way if we kept lauding it as a community, even with all the complicated meta-joke analyzing of it that goes on among comedians including documentaries and such that seeks to legitimize it as a cultural artifact), and I'm glad she brought it up. I don't think she's saying anyone was bad. I think in the process of being cordial and not overly confrontational (because Miko is virtuous in this regard and one of the best at this), some wires got a little bit crossed in the conversation about the aesthetics/moral intentions (like IF notes), but to that I literally say so what in the grand scheme of things. Discussions can be a little bit tricky to navigate without us having to call into question our goodness or badness all the time or deeply hidden motives for bringing things up. I feel that when we do that we make a big deal about the minor things instead of uniting on the majors, and that is to our detriment.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:59 PM on June 3, 2015


but the salespeople were way too pushy.

Were they?



Going up?
posted by clavdivs at 5:12 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Is Google blocking "the moth joke" in some countries again?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:15 PM on June 3, 2015


Paphnuty tried to tell the moth joke on MetaFilter and look what happened to him.
posted by languagehat at 6:31 AM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm only here because the light is on.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's what she said.

The moth, I mean.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:15 AM on June 4, 2015


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