What does "ricer" mean? July 27, 2002 10:52 PM Subscribe
I was wondering the same thing. I found this link. Is the ricer in question?
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:56 PM on July 27, 2002
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:56 PM on July 27, 2002
Derogatory ethnic slur, commonly used as shorthand to refer to young Asian men who add needless and excessive customization and decoration to their Japanese/Korean/whatever cars, or those cars (also known as rice-burners) themselves.
[sarcasm] Yay for new blood and the wacky fun times they will bring. [/sarcasm]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:57 PM on July 27, 2002
[sarcasm] Yay for new blood and the wacky fun times they will bring. [/sarcasm]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:57 PM on July 27, 2002
"Is THIS the ricer in question?" that should read. Sigh. I comment once every decade, so I should learn to make preview my friend.
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:58 PM on July 27, 2002
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:58 PM on July 27, 2002
Derived perhaps from the word 'ricerocket' used to define small sporty Asian made cars. Hence a ricer would be anyone (not just Asians) who buys a rice rocket and 'tricks it out' with neon lights illuminating the ground and other silly baubles.
posted by insomnyuk at 11:00 PM on July 27, 2002
posted by insomnyuk at 11:00 PM on July 27, 2002
I retract my sarcastic comment about new blood, and apologize to our new members. I see that hidely, who posted the link(s), has been around for a long time, if not terribly active. My bad.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:04 PM on July 27, 2002
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:04 PM on July 27, 2002
Thank you for that timely retraction and correction, stavros. I was just coming around to slap you down on behalf of all newbies.
/righteous indignation
posted by yhbc at 11:07 PM on July 27, 2002
/righteous indignation
posted by yhbc at 11:07 PM on July 27, 2002
Clearly, hidely is an evil racist. Stone him! /Monty Python "The Life of Brian Voice"
Is sudama offended by the misuse of his last name?
posted by insomnyuk at 11:25 PM on July 27, 2002
Is sudama offended by the misuse of his last name?
posted by insomnyuk at 11:25 PM on July 27, 2002
The term refers specifically to those who take an underpowered Asian car and trick it out with over-the-top sporty detailing without regard for (and sometimes at the expense of!) actual performance.
Admittedly, I am a total outsider to car-geek culture, but I have never understood 'ricer' to refer specifically to men of Asian descent. It's definitely a term of derision, but I think the whole 'Type-R' phenomenon knows no racial bounds. (The stereotyping of Asian culture inherent in the term, however, is another matter entirely.)
posted by jjg at 12:18 AM on July 28, 2002
Admittedly, I am a total outsider to car-geek culture, but I have never understood 'ricer' to refer specifically to men of Asian descent. It's definitely a term of derision, but I think the whole 'Type-R' phenomenon knows no racial bounds. (The stereotyping of Asian culture inherent in the term, however, is another matter entirely.)
posted by jjg at 12:18 AM on July 28, 2002
it's sort of racist, but i think the term easily refers to people of any ethnicity
i think the car-customize-crowd makes fun of customizations for aesthetic reasons rather than hp or speed or something real. also people will put stickers on their car for things they don't have. i don't know if this is the same type-r thing people are talking about, but lots of people apparently put "type-r" decals on civics (i think) which were only available in japan. although real type-r's are good the people here hardly ever had them. maybe i'm remembering that right... (?)
posted by rhyax at 12:28 AM on July 28, 2002
i think the car-customize-crowd makes fun of customizations for aesthetic reasons rather than hp or speed or something real. also people will put stickers on their car for things they don't have. i don't know if this is the same type-r thing people are talking about, but lots of people apparently put "type-r" decals on civics (i think) which were only available in japan. although real type-r's are good the people here hardly ever had them. maybe i'm remembering that right... (?)
posted by rhyax at 12:28 AM on July 28, 2002
I typed "What is a ricer" into Google and got this as the first result.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:33 AM on July 28, 2002
A ricer is someone that not only owns a vehicle imported from Asia, but a person that knows very little if anything at all about automobiles and speaks or acts as if they are hardcore racers (usually drag racers). Typically ricers will put stickers all over their cars to imitate professional racecars that have sponsor stickers. A ricer will often modify their car with simple and easy to install parts that may or may not be beneficial, and claim outrageous performance gains without fully understanding how or why that part affects their car. An example of this could be someone installing a cheap 3" intake pipe with an open element filter to replace the stock intake piping and air box, not knowing that a 1.6L engine that only produces 125hp can not create the velocity needed to produce good torque or horse power with such a large pipe, also neglecting to understand that the filter is pulling hot air from the engine compartment. Another example of ricer behavior is joining discussions with people that have experience and knowledge on certain topics and arguing about that topic without even understanding what they are arguing about. Ricers do not understand how silly other people think their actions are and typically do not learn anything about racing, eventually growing out of the fast car phase in their lives and move to other hobbies.I have found that entering "What is a X" into good actually produces an answer on almost all occasions.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:33 AM on July 28, 2002
entering "What is a X" into good
"into Google". Y'see? That exactly why I usually eschew the Spell Checker.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:34 AM on July 28, 2002
"into Google". Y'see? That exactly why I usually eschew the Spell Checker.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:34 AM on July 28, 2002
My first guess re: "Ricer" was that it was people who went on boringly about how great Anne Rice books were... Rather like trekkers or whatever.
I think I need a brain transplant.
posted by selton at 1:20 AM on July 28, 2002
I think I need a brain transplant.
posted by selton at 1:20 AM on July 28, 2002
Another term that is, perhaps, better known is Rice Boy.
Who/What Exactly Is a Rice-Boy?
Rice-Boy is a stereotype. The typical Rice-Boy can be identified by his car, or rather what he does to it. Generally, Rice-Boy will start out with a car that was not meant to go fast (typically a Honda Civic), and attempt to "fix it up," usually consisting of aftermarket rims, lowering springs and an aftermarket exhaust system with a large exhaust tip.
Most Rice-Boy cars (or "Rice Rockets") have the usual complement of stickers proudly displaying features that the car might or might not have, most notably, the Honda VTEC sticker from the later model Preludes, and the plaques from the later model Integras.
Rice-Boys do not exclusively drive Japanese cars. There are quite a few fake Mustang '5.0's and Camaro Z28's out there, as well as quite a few strange looking Neons.
I don't even think "rice-rocket" (or "rice-burner") are necessarily derogatory. I think they really began with the domestic sale of Japanese motorcycles, and Harley (e.g.) owners started those terms -- but they can also be used affectionately.
The same page says:
Disclaimer:
The term "Rice-Boy" is meant to be a derogatory term. But not racially derogatory. Some people might say that regardless of what this disclaimer says, it makes Asians look bad. Well, I hate to break it to these people but asians are not the only people on this planet who eat rice. Everyone eats rice. White people eat rice. Black people eat rice. Native Americans? They eat rice. Europeans eat rice!! And, if you open your eyes, you might notice that a whole lot of the rice-boys out there aren't even asian! The "rice" really refers to their cars. It's not about their race, it's about their attitude!
posted by dhartung at 4:36 AM on July 28, 2002
Who/What Exactly Is a Rice-Boy?
Rice-Boy is a stereotype. The typical Rice-Boy can be identified by his car, or rather what he does to it. Generally, Rice-Boy will start out with a car that was not meant to go fast (typically a Honda Civic), and attempt to "fix it up," usually consisting of aftermarket rims, lowering springs and an aftermarket exhaust system with a large exhaust tip.
Most Rice-Boy cars (or "Rice Rockets") have the usual complement of stickers proudly displaying features that the car might or might not have, most notably, the Honda VTEC sticker from the later model Preludes, and the plaques from the later model Integras.
Rice-Boys do not exclusively drive Japanese cars. There are quite a few fake Mustang '5.0's and Camaro Z28's out there, as well as quite a few strange looking Neons.
I don't even think "rice-rocket" (or "rice-burner") are necessarily derogatory. I think they really began with the domestic sale of Japanese motorcycles, and Harley (e.g.) owners started those terms -- but they can also be used affectionately.
The same page says:
Disclaimer:
The term "Rice-Boy" is meant to be a derogatory term. But not racially derogatory. Some people might say that regardless of what this disclaimer says, it makes Asians look bad. Well, I hate to break it to these people but asians are not the only people on this planet who eat rice. Everyone eats rice. White people eat rice. Black people eat rice. Native Americans? They eat rice. Europeans eat rice!! And, if you open your eyes, you might notice that a whole lot of the rice-boys out there aren't even asian! The "rice" really refers to their cars. It's not about their race, it's about their attitude!
posted by dhartung at 4:36 AM on July 28, 2002
Disclaimer : We enjoy deploying crypto-racist epithets, but we don't like to actually admit that we do it. What empty-noise nonsense.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:17 AM on July 28, 2002
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:17 AM on July 28, 2002
i know we're supposed to get all steamed up about the racial implications, but if you just pause for a moment and think about what's happening here - one bunch of adolescent males with modded cars being snooty about another bunch of adolescent males with modded cars - i think you start to see that it's one sad circle of hormone driven inadequacy...
i humbly submit that both ricers and people whose heck is annoyed out of them by ricers are more in need of a little tolerance, understanding (and pity) than digusted tutting.
(wonder if this term is now current in the uk - didn't hear it before i left, about 6 months ago)
posted by andrew cooke at 8:17 AM on July 28, 2002
i humbly submit that both ricers and people whose heck is annoyed out of them by ricers are more in need of a little tolerance, understanding (and pity) than digusted tutting.
(wonder if this term is now current in the uk - didn't hear it before i left, about 6 months ago)
posted by andrew cooke at 8:17 AM on July 28, 2002
The problem, andrew cooke, is slightly more complex than that. Real auto enthusiasts put alot of time and thought (and, often, expense) into improving the performance of their cars.
The stereotypical riceboy, on the other hand, will not put $5000 into engine work, $3000 into suspension, wheels, and tires, $1000 into airflow improvements, etc, in order to be fast. They take a car which has little to no performance potential, spend $500 on a body kit, $100 on a fart-cannon muffler, and $100 on a gross amount of stickers. Then they'll go and do things which actually harm the performance of the car -- "slam" it by cutting the stock springs without changing the spring rates, destroy the alignment in the process and not get it checked because the wheels look cool with 45 degrees negative camber, put big heavy chrome dubs that weigh 45 pounds each on...
This alone would be tolerable. Many true enthusiasts would get irked at the destruction of a good machine, but to each his own. The real bad blood comes from the fact that the rice kids then take their ugly customized cars and pretend that they're fast and knowledgable about cars -- when most of them couldn't tell you the difference between caster, camber, and toe, what kind of supercharger a Roots is, why 4" exhaust is *bad* for a 4 cylinder Honda engine -- and think that "NOS" is a generic product name.
And they're still slow, despite all the attitude. That is what annoys real enthusiasts. If they'd leave it at "I like my car to look fast when its not", that'd be fine -- hell, most new cars would match that description off the lot, these days. But playing big bad racer with a car with a wing and a big muffler, when there are people out there who have worked for years acquiring and tuning their knowledge, gets on nerves. Alot.
Not that ricers bother me or anything. ;)
posted by jammer at 9:12 AM on July 28, 2002
The stereotypical riceboy, on the other hand, will not put $5000 into engine work, $3000 into suspension, wheels, and tires, $1000 into airflow improvements, etc, in order to be fast. They take a car which has little to no performance potential, spend $500 on a body kit, $100 on a fart-cannon muffler, and $100 on a gross amount of stickers. Then they'll go and do things which actually harm the performance of the car -- "slam" it by cutting the stock springs without changing the spring rates, destroy the alignment in the process and not get it checked because the wheels look cool with 45 degrees negative camber, put big heavy chrome dubs that weigh 45 pounds each on...
This alone would be tolerable. Many true enthusiasts would get irked at the destruction of a good machine, but to each his own. The real bad blood comes from the fact that the rice kids then take their ugly customized cars and pretend that they're fast and knowledgable about cars -- when most of them couldn't tell you the difference between caster, camber, and toe, what kind of supercharger a Roots is, why 4" exhaust is *bad* for a 4 cylinder Honda engine -- and think that "NOS" is a generic product name.
And they're still slow, despite all the attitude. That is what annoys real enthusiasts. If they'd leave it at "I like my car to look fast when its not", that'd be fine -- hell, most new cars would match that description off the lot, these days. But playing big bad racer with a car with a wing and a big muffler, when there are people out there who have worked for years acquiring and tuning their knowledge, gets on nerves. Alot.
Not that ricers bother me or anything. ;)
posted by jammer at 9:12 AM on July 28, 2002
saw a caucasian riceboy in his late 20's oozing up plainfield avenue during after-work gridlock in his modified saturn with custom instrumentation bolted on the dash and even up the strut between the door and the windshield, he shot me a prideful grin and gave his accelerator a quick stab when he saw me laughing. he thought i was admiring his ride.
posted by quonsar at 9:57 AM on July 28, 2002
posted by quonsar at 9:57 AM on July 28, 2002
jammer - it's a whole different level. play around with the idea that "it doesn't matter how fast a car is." once you've reached some kind of acceptance with that, try "it doesn't matter what other people think of me." if you get past that, try "it doesn't matter what i think of other people." and if you pass that, send the next truth down to me.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:08 AM on July 28, 2002
posted by andrew cooke at 10:08 AM on July 28, 2002
That's the base of the disagreement, then, andrew -- to an enthusiast such as myself, it *does* matter (actually, I'm more impressed with handling capability than straight-line speed, but the point still stands). However, can you tell me any more authoritatively that it doesn't matter any more than I'd likely to be able to convince you that it does? I suspect not.
That's fine. I mainly take offense to your dismissive implication that anyone who is interested in hotting up a car is a hormone-driven adolescent male with feelings of inadequacy. I actually do race my car -- I'm an autocrosser. I think plenty of my friends and co-racers would surprise what seems to be a blinkered point of view on your part. I know men, women, blacks, whites, old, young, construction workers and computer geeks (like myself) who are interested in making their cars perform. And very few of them, honestly seem like insecure adolescent males.
posted by jammer at 10:18 AM on July 28, 2002
That's fine. I mainly take offense to your dismissive implication that anyone who is interested in hotting up a car is a hormone-driven adolescent male with feelings of inadequacy. I actually do race my car -- I'm an autocrosser. I think plenty of my friends and co-racers would surprise what seems to be a blinkered point of view on your part. I know men, women, blacks, whites, old, young, construction workers and computer geeks (like myself) who are interested in making their cars perform. And very few of them, honestly seem like insecure adolescent males.
posted by jammer at 10:18 AM on July 28, 2002
Oh really? 'Round these parts, we call said cars "kiddie cars" as they all seem to fit a pattern: small, Japanese manufacture, darkly-tinted windshields, lots of manufacturers' stickers, racing stripes and colored lights along the bottom rails, bonus points for "Calvin peeing on something" stickers, invariably driven by teens or young 20's-ish males and females, oh and don't forget, music blaring away - mostly Eminem this summer, I observe. We don't call them "ricers" because although mostly Caucasian young people are driving, there are distinct Latino/black influences at work, each ethnic demographic adding definitive visual and audio effects to the whole.
posted by Lynsey at 10:34 AM on July 28, 2002
posted by Lynsey at 10:34 AM on July 28, 2002
Lynsey, I wasn't talking about ricers -- I would have that thought would have been obvious from my earlier post. I was saying that most of the serious racers I know are distinctly not insecure adolescent males.
I drive a Nissan that has no tint, no 20" wheels, and not a single sticker on it -- complete sleeper. There is very little rice in either of the local autocross clubs I'm a member of. Occasionally some real street racer rice-types show up at our events, which are open admission. They almost universally perform very poorly, and never show up again.
posted by jammer at 10:46 AM on July 28, 2002
I drive a Nissan that has no tint, no 20" wheels, and not a single sticker on it -- complete sleeper. There is very little rice in either of the local autocross clubs I'm a member of. Occasionally some real street racer rice-types show up at our events, which are open admission. They almost universally perform very poorly, and never show up again.
posted by jammer at 10:46 AM on July 28, 2002
jammer - i don't mind what you do in your free time - it's complaining that other people don't feel the same way about your interests that shows your feelings of inadequacy.
i'm sure that's it quite possible to enjoy racing cars without feeling superior and/or threatened because someone else decorates their car in a certain style.
the whole ricer labelling thing is about territory, grouping (and hey, here's jammer defending not himself - of course - but "serious racers") and superiority. and when it comes to territory, grouping and superiority, it's hard not to think of adolescent males...
posted by andrew cooke at 10:54 AM on July 28, 2002
i'm sure that's it quite possible to enjoy racing cars without feeling superior and/or threatened because someone else decorates their car in a certain style.
the whole ricer labelling thing is about territory, grouping (and hey, here's jammer defending not himself - of course - but "serious racers") and superiority. and when it comes to territory, grouping and superiority, it's hard not to think of adolescent males...
posted by andrew cooke at 10:54 AM on July 28, 2002
i humbly submit that both ricers and people whose heck is annoyed out of them by ricers are more in need of a little tolerance, understanding (and pity) than digusted tutting.
do you honestly think this is a problem? perhaps you should think of it less like racial intolerance and more like the somewhat humorous distaste some web designers feel for people using the blink tag. we're not having people being beat up in the streets i don't believe.
jammer - it's a whole different level.
what's a "whole different level?" your feelings on the subject? this from the proponent of tolerance? now, as much as everyone appreciates your bits of wisdom from the heights of human consciousness i don't think it's necessarily bad that some people like engines while other may like something else.
posted by rhyax at 11:04 AM on July 28, 2002
do you honestly think this is a problem? perhaps you should think of it less like racial intolerance and more like the somewhat humorous distaste some web designers feel for people using the blink tag. we're not having people being beat up in the streets i don't believe.
jammer - it's a whole different level.
what's a "whole different level?" your feelings on the subject? this from the proponent of tolerance? now, as much as everyone appreciates your bits of wisdom from the heights of human consciousness i don't think it's necessarily bad that some people like engines while other may like something else.
posted by rhyax at 11:04 AM on July 28, 2002
Thank you for your insightful diagnosis, Dr. Cooke. I'll be sure to seek treatment for that inadequacy complex, now that you've shown me how superior you are to me and the rest of the people you group as "car guys".
posted by jammer at 11:06 AM on July 28, 2002
posted by jammer at 11:06 AM on July 28, 2002
Using the term "ricer" on the front page stinks.
It's an unnecessary shorthand word with a strong lingering racist smell. I've seen gay folks write about "rice queens" (non-Asian guys who only like sex with Asian guys) and it bothers me in that context, too.
Any MeFi-ers of Asian descent care to weigh in? I'm curious what you think of it.
posted by mediareport at 11:46 AM on July 28, 2002
It's an unnecessary shorthand word with a strong lingering racist smell. I've seen gay folks write about "rice queens" (non-Asian guys who only like sex with Asian guys) and it bothers me in that context, too.
Any MeFi-ers of Asian descent care to weigh in? I'm curious what you think of it.
posted by mediareport at 11:46 AM on July 28, 2002
Well, down here in Texas...where we are known for our cultural civility (heh), the term used is "rice burner", it applies to anything motorized that is PacRim manufactured and tricked out for looks rather than performance.
It applies to motorcycles as well as the idiots in the Kia's with phony exhaust systems. (Who are forever trying to race my balanced, blueprinted, V8 SS Camaro.) For those of us who build, play with, and race our own street cars, the label has nothing to do with the driver's nationality, or even, in all honesty, the manufacturer of the car, so much as it's people who try to look tricked, without having the balls.
I've run against a Nissan that was unreal fast...that car wasn't a riceburner. That was a tricked out Nissan. But the majority of the neon cars with coffee can exhausts are running these teeny, tiny little 4cyl engines, and then get all hostile when the people with real engines won't race them...because it's not worth the time, the gas, or the chance that they're a freaking idiot and can't control their car on the quarter mile.
So, while I understand that outside of the racing community, this might be seen as a racial insult, at least down here, it's not a person thing...it's a car thing. Some cars deserve to be sneered at...and the cars with $15K in mods and a 4cyld engine...that roll up on old model V8's like they can run with the big dogs...those are the cars everyone can feel free to laugh at...yes you can.
(And no, I'm not a kid...I've been racing stock cars for almost 20 years as a hobby. I'm just a firm believer in big, steel, muscle bound, American-made cars. )
posted by dejah420 at 1:08 PM on July 28, 2002
It applies to motorcycles as well as the idiots in the Kia's with phony exhaust systems. (Who are forever trying to race my balanced, blueprinted, V8 SS Camaro.) For those of us who build, play with, and race our own street cars, the label has nothing to do with the driver's nationality, or even, in all honesty, the manufacturer of the car, so much as it's people who try to look tricked, without having the balls.
I've run against a Nissan that was unreal fast...that car wasn't a riceburner. That was a tricked out Nissan. But the majority of the neon cars with coffee can exhausts are running these teeny, tiny little 4cyl engines, and then get all hostile when the people with real engines won't race them...because it's not worth the time, the gas, or the chance that they're a freaking idiot and can't control their car on the quarter mile.
So, while I understand that outside of the racing community, this might be seen as a racial insult, at least down here, it's not a person thing...it's a car thing. Some cars deserve to be sneered at...and the cars with $15K in mods and a 4cyld engine...that roll up on old model V8's like they can run with the big dogs...those are the cars everyone can feel free to laugh at...yes you can.
(And no, I'm not a kid...I've been racing stock cars for almost 20 years as a hobby. I'm just a firm believer in big, steel, muscle bound, American-made cars. )
posted by dejah420 at 1:08 PM on July 28, 2002
it's not a person thing...it's a car thing
Yeah, that's the argument made by Bryan Hong at his Rice-Boy page, too. I don't buy it. "Rice" is nothing but shorthand for an easy dismissal of Asian people. That non-Asians can be rice-boys is irrelevant to the insult inherent in the term (and yes, that goes for "rice-rockets," too).
posted by mediareport at 1:28 PM on July 28, 2002
Yeah, that's the argument made by Bryan Hong at his Rice-Boy page, too. I don't buy it. "Rice" is nothing but shorthand for an easy dismissal of Asian people. That non-Asians can be rice-boys is irrelevant to the insult inherent in the term (and yes, that goes for "rice-rockets," too).
posted by mediareport at 1:28 PM on July 28, 2002
this is like hackers vs crackers/script-kiddies, isn't it?
dejah420: get all hostile when the people with real engines won't race them
you race other people on public roads????????
I think I'm going to start calling all of you "race-boys" and "racers".
posted by rebeccablood at 1:39 PM on July 28, 2002
dejah420: get all hostile when the people with real engines won't race them
you race other people on public roads????????
I think I'm going to start calling all of you "race-boys" and "racers".
posted by rebeccablood at 1:39 PM on July 28, 2002
mediareport, you ask for the opinion of "an Asian", and then dismiss Bryan Hong's opinion because it doesn't agree with you. Do you want the opinion of "an Asian", or simply the opinion of someone you think will go along with your PC politics?
posted by jammer at 1:46 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by jammer at 1:46 PM on July 28, 2002
you race other people on public roads????????
No, hence the reference to the quarter mile. :)
posted by dejah420 at 1:52 PM on July 28, 2002
No, hence the reference to the quarter mile. :)
posted by dejah420 at 1:52 PM on July 28, 2002
Any MeFi-ers of Asian descent care to weigh in? I'm curious what you think of it.
I'm not all that happy about it. Although I've never really understood the whole car-customization thing, it's apparent that "ricer" is a thinly-veiled insult to asians. Now, I understand that the epithet can be used in limited and specific contexts, as dejah describes above, but that doesn't really soften it's use, in my opinion. Sure, there's the whole confusion between the ethnic origin of the driver and the nation of origin of the car, but I find it relatively hard to believe that most people in the car community would apply "ricer" to non-asians, even when they fit the other purported characteristics. It's like saying that the word "n****r" is more about an attitude and social class than race. I've heard that argument seriously propounded before, and it's a blatent white-wash of the truth.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:59 PM on July 28, 2002
I'm not all that happy about it. Although I've never really understood the whole car-customization thing, it's apparent that "ricer" is a thinly-veiled insult to asians. Now, I understand that the epithet can be used in limited and specific contexts, as dejah describes above, but that doesn't really soften it's use, in my opinion. Sure, there's the whole confusion between the ethnic origin of the driver and the nation of origin of the car, but I find it relatively hard to believe that most people in the car community would apply "ricer" to non-asians, even when they fit the other purported characteristics. It's like saying that the word "n****r" is more about an attitude and social class than race. I've heard that argument seriously propounded before, and it's a blatent white-wash of the truth.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:59 PM on July 28, 2002
Hmmm. I said "white-wash." Seems even more appropriate now that I think about it.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:00 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:00 PM on July 28, 2002
mediareport asked for the opinions of Asian MeFi members, not of Asians in general. The issue is whether "rice-boy" and variations are words we should consider acceptable on MetaFilter. It's clearly a term racist in origin, if not always intentionally racist in usage.I would certainly never use it myself, and seeing it on the front page reminds me that I need to think twice before pointing friends and family to MetaFilter.
posted by sudama at 3:40 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by sudama at 3:40 PM on July 28, 2002
yes, i'm not saying the term isn't racist, clearly it is. while the term doesn't currently have to describe asian people it obviously originated from that. when you say x person is a ricer, you are saying they have characteristics you ascribe to asians, and not positive ones.
here's an example, "jim really n****r-rigged that door frame" now, is that racist? clearly yes! but what if jim is white? still there really is no debate. it's racist just like ricer.
posted by rhyax at 3:49 PM on July 28, 2002
here's an example, "jim really n****r-rigged that door frame" now, is that racist? clearly yes! but what if jim is white? still there really is no debate. it's racist just like ricer.
posted by rhyax at 3:49 PM on July 28, 2002
next time i see one, i'll be sure to tell him he's been declared politically incorrect by mefi.
posted by quonsar at 5:09 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by quonsar at 5:09 PM on July 28, 2002
I would certainly never use it myself, and seeing it on the front page reminds me that I need to think twice before pointing friends and family to MetaFilter.
You have friends?
posted by Optamystic at 5:29 PM on July 28, 2002
You have friends?
posted by Optamystic at 5:29 PM on July 28, 2002
dear overly-sensitive bitches,
last i checked, asians weren't the ONLY PEOPLE WHOM EAT RICE.
kthx.
therefore, 'ricer' is not racist. and you're an kneejerk reactionarist for believing it is.
yes, that's a made up word. piss off.
posted by jcterminal at 5:58 PM on July 28, 2002
last i checked, asians weren't the ONLY PEOPLE WHOM EAT RICE.
kthx.
therefore, 'ricer' is not racist. and you're an kneejerk reactionarist for believing it is.
yes, that's a made up word. piss off.
posted by jcterminal at 5:58 PM on July 28, 2002
Hmmm. I said "white-wash." Seems even more appropriate now that I think about it.
That's a racist statement as well, monju_bosatsu. By equating the term 'white' with thinly veiled racism, aren't you also ascribing a stereotype to a group of people based on their race? You see where this madness leads, to the total inability of people to speak about anyone and anything for fear of causing offense. I don't like to hear the word 'nigger' (though I only hear it in hip hop songs and from black and latino kids in my neighborhood) I've had to get used to it. I don't like hearing the word 'gay' used as a negative adjective ("Dude, MetaFilter is totally gay. I never post there") but I've had to get used to it. My advice: get used to it. Unless someone is using words in a manner to incite hatred or violence, I think we can live with it. I'd rather put up with a few non-PC words than live in fear of the language police. If though = language, then controlling language is controlling though to one degree or another, which is just not cool, as the kids say.
posted by evanizer at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2002
That's a racist statement as well, monju_bosatsu. By equating the term 'white' with thinly veiled racism, aren't you also ascribing a stereotype to a group of people based on their race? You see where this madness leads, to the total inability of people to speak about anyone and anything for fear of causing offense. I don't like to hear the word 'nigger' (though I only hear it in hip hop songs and from black and latino kids in my neighborhood) I've had to get used to it. I don't like hearing the word 'gay' used as a negative adjective ("Dude, MetaFilter is totally gay. I never post there") but I've had to get used to it. My advice: get used to it. Unless someone is using words in a manner to incite hatred or violence, I think we can live with it. I'd rather put up with a few non-PC words than live in fear of the language police. If though = language, then controlling language is controlling though to one degree or another, which is just not cool, as the kids say.
posted by evanizer at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2002
p.s. the root of the phrase is based off of kids willing to live off of almost nothing but rice for a month in order to buy a ground-effects kit. stop tilting at windmills already.
posted by jcterminal at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by jcterminal at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2002
I want to get me a couscous rocket.
Also, what jcterminal said. Should we ban potato guns because they are thinly veiled racist terms used against Irishmen?
posted by insomnyuk at 6:17 PM on July 28, 2002
Also, what jcterminal said. Should we ban potato guns because they are thinly veiled racist terms used against Irishmen?
posted by insomnyuk at 6:17 PM on July 28, 2002
I always got confused because the first time I heard the term I thought it had something to do with people who went to Rice.
posted by nath at 7:38 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by nath at 7:38 PM on July 28, 2002
kids willing to live off of almost nothing but rice for a month
Who is this?
posted by sudama at 7:46 PM on July 28, 2002
Who is this?
posted by sudama at 7:46 PM on July 28, 2002
You're a hoot, jammer. I asked for the opinions of folks of Asian descent because I like different kinds of information, and then provided a relevant link from a guy of Asian descent who happens to disagree with me. This makes me PC? Whatever.
quonsar: Was that an argument? I haven't declared anyone "politically incorrect;" I just stated an opinion I've had since I discovered Bryan's site around 1997 (linked here back in April 2000). Bryan's argument doesn't strike me as logical because it papers over the fact that the term arose out of derision towards Asians. I completely understand why some folks don't like it, and think in a public forum like MeFi it should be avoided.
dear overly-sensitive bitches,
How charming. Was there a specific reason you chose to go that route here, jcterminal? Perhaps the defensiveness you're feeling? It's ok, sweetie; we're here for you. And everyone who agreed with the guy who posted that insulting bullshit needs to check themselves.
last i checked, asians weren't the ONLY PEOPLE WHOM EAT RICE...therefore, 'ricer' is not racist.
That's your best logical argument? Sheesh. Ignoring the long history of "rice" used as shorthand evocation of Japanese or Asian culture is sticking your head in the sand.
Btw, for those who can handle it, here's a reclaiming of the stereotype that adds another level of complexity to the discussion -- Generation Rice (itself worthy of a front-page post):
5. How did you come up with the name generationrice?
Rice is the one thing that binds all Asian ethnicities together; the one thing that is common regardless of location, culture, language and religious beliefs. generationrice is trying to reach this generation that is looking, or in the process of looking, for an identity. Whether it's "full," "pure," "half-half," "hapa," "mutt," or "mixed," generationrice wants to do its part and bring every group together.
posted by mediareport at 7:55 PM on July 28, 2002
quonsar: Was that an argument? I haven't declared anyone "politically incorrect;" I just stated an opinion I've had since I discovered Bryan's site around 1997 (linked here back in April 2000). Bryan's argument doesn't strike me as logical because it papers over the fact that the term arose out of derision towards Asians. I completely understand why some folks don't like it, and think in a public forum like MeFi it should be avoided.
dear overly-sensitive bitches,
How charming. Was there a specific reason you chose to go that route here, jcterminal? Perhaps the defensiveness you're feeling? It's ok, sweetie; we're here for you. And everyone who agreed with the guy who posted that insulting bullshit needs to check themselves.
last i checked, asians weren't the ONLY PEOPLE WHOM EAT RICE...therefore, 'ricer' is not racist.
That's your best logical argument? Sheesh. Ignoring the long history of "rice" used as shorthand evocation of Japanese or Asian culture is sticking your head in the sand.
Btw, for those who can handle it, here's a reclaiming of the stereotype that adds another level of complexity to the discussion -- Generation Rice (itself worthy of a front-page post):
5. How did you come up with the name generationrice?
Rice is the one thing that binds all Asian ethnicities together; the one thing that is common regardless of location, culture, language and religious beliefs. generationrice is trying to reach this generation that is looking, or in the process of looking, for an identity. Whether it's "full," "pure," "half-half," "hapa," "mutt," or "mixed," generationrice wants to do its part and bring every group together.
posted by mediareport at 7:55 PM on July 28, 2002
Any MeFi-ers of Asian descent care to weigh in? I'm curious what you think of it.
I think it's clearly based on a racist and offensive generalization. But since the only people who use the word are those who either care enough to sneer at these guys, or are these guys themselves, I'm not too worried about it.
The political implications of the word choices of people who obsess over vehicles as anything other transportation are pretty much meaningless, as they rarely, if ever, affect people's lives in any significant way. Which is cool, it kind of filters them out from having an impact on my life. Or, "knock yerselves out, boys. we'll be over here trying to do useful things."
posted by anildash at 7:59 PM on July 28, 2002
I think it's clearly based on a racist and offensive generalization. But since the only people who use the word are those who either care enough to sneer at these guys, or are these guys themselves, I'm not too worried about it.
The political implications of the word choices of people who obsess over vehicles as anything other transportation are pretty much meaningless, as they rarely, if ever, affect people's lives in any significant way. Which is cool, it kind of filters them out from having an impact on my life. Or, "knock yerselves out, boys. we'll be over here trying to do useful things."
posted by anildash at 7:59 PM on July 28, 2002
jct, where is a reference for that root?
i don't believe you people are serious. first, let me say that i don't believe the root of that has anything to do with people eating rice for x amount of time so that they can afford to customize their car. look at how it is used you also have to incorporate the usage that some american-muscle-car people have of it as anyone who drives an asian car. yes, in general usage it doesn't have to be an asian, but to pretend that there is absolutely no connection to asians or asian cars is silly.
second, there are a lot of other examples of "rice" being used in relation to asians, rice-queen, as someone stated above is a gay guy who likes asians, rice-rocket etc. these all have to do with asians and not the plant rice itself.
white-wash comes from a sort of painting, the biblical reference is whitewashed tombs, meaning pretty and clean on the outside, full of decay inside. it doesn't inherently mean anything about white people. i agree that the second statement associating it with white people may be seen as racist. potato guns actually do, in fact, shoot potatoes and have nothing to do with the irish.
i understand evanizer's view, although i don't agree, that we should just get used to people being racist. but to think that ricer doesn't have an asian connection i think is incorrect. also, if people can't tell the difference between a term used to describe people/things who have perceived characteristics of an ethnic group [ricer, n****-rigged, drunk-irish, lazy-mexican], and actual descriptive terms which have vaguely peripheral connection to some group [potato gun, tortilla maker, great wall of china, toyko subway] then i don't know if this discussion will be worthwhile.
try to think of some group you belong to, now try to think of a stereotype of that group, say your group is greedy, or violent, or ugly, or liberal. would you enjoy the name of your group to replace the word in common language? clearly not everyone in your group is like that, and to use that word implies that they are, and that they are not individuals that need to be thought of separately.
posted by rhyax at 8:21 PM on July 28, 2002
i don't believe you people are serious. first, let me say that i don't believe the root of that has anything to do with people eating rice for x amount of time so that they can afford to customize their car. look at how it is used you also have to incorporate the usage that some american-muscle-car people have of it as anyone who drives an asian car. yes, in general usage it doesn't have to be an asian, but to pretend that there is absolutely no connection to asians or asian cars is silly.
second, there are a lot of other examples of "rice" being used in relation to asians, rice-queen, as someone stated above is a gay guy who likes asians, rice-rocket etc. these all have to do with asians and not the plant rice itself.
white-wash comes from a sort of painting, the biblical reference is whitewashed tombs, meaning pretty and clean on the outside, full of decay inside. it doesn't inherently mean anything about white people. i agree that the second statement associating it with white people may be seen as racist. potato guns actually do, in fact, shoot potatoes and have nothing to do with the irish.
i understand evanizer's view, although i don't agree, that we should just get used to people being racist. but to think that ricer doesn't have an asian connection i think is incorrect. also, if people can't tell the difference between a term used to describe people/things who have perceived characteristics of an ethnic group [ricer, n****-rigged, drunk-irish, lazy-mexican], and actual descriptive terms which have vaguely peripheral connection to some group [potato gun, tortilla maker, great wall of china, toyko subway] then i don't know if this discussion will be worthwhile.
try to think of some group you belong to, now try to think of a stereotype of that group, say your group is greedy, or violent, or ugly, or liberal. would you enjoy the name of your group to replace the word in common language? clearly not everyone in your group is like that, and to use that word implies that they are, and that they are not individuals that need to be thought of separately.
posted by rhyax at 8:21 PM on July 28, 2002
*thinks about gay men*
Um, almost all the stereotypes are true...
And most Asians do eat rice. And eating rice is a good thing. isn't it? So what's the problem?
But I'm just a bitter, jaded fag, so what do I know.
posted by evanizer at 8:30 PM on July 28, 2002
Um, almost all the stereotypes are true...
And most Asians do eat rice. And eating rice is a good thing. isn't it? So what's the problem?
But I'm just a bitter, jaded fag, so what do I know.
posted by evanizer at 8:30 PM on July 28, 2002
And everyone who agreed with the guy who posted that insulting bullshit needs to check themselves.
Last time I checked, MeFi was just an online community. No-one here makes any money from doing this, no-one really learns much, and we're all just here having a laugh at the links and each other's stupidity, which most of us gladly put on show from time to time, myself included.
This is not really a forum for serious debate, so I say yah boo to you :-)
posted by wackybrit at 8:41 PM on July 28, 2002
Last time I checked, MeFi was just an online community. No-one here makes any money from doing this, no-one really learns much, and we're all just here having a laugh at the links and each other's stupidity, which most of us gladly put on show from time to time, myself included.
This is not really a forum for serious debate, so I say yah boo to you :-)
posted by wackybrit at 8:41 PM on July 28, 2002
well, if ricer meant eating rice, but it's closer to just meaning asian, and then the meaning is that they don't know about cars etc. which some people see as bad. like if i said "oh that car is so 'asian'" and i meant tricked out with fake stickers etc.
and all the stereotypes of gays aren't true, look at you! you almost never think the way i want you to. :)
posted by rhyax at 8:43 PM on July 28, 2002
and all the stereotypes of gays aren't true, look at you! you almost never think the way i want you to. :)
posted by rhyax at 8:43 PM on July 28, 2002
dear overly-sensitive bitches
etc.
jcterminal, I stopped listening to you after this. But that doesn't mean that your 'I'm so punk, I spit on all your bourgeois pretensions' posturing doesn't still annoy me.
I was 16 once too, but please : grow up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:21 PM on July 28, 2002
etc.
jcterminal, I stopped listening to you after this. But that doesn't mean that your 'I'm so punk, I spit on all your bourgeois pretensions' posturing doesn't still annoy me.
I was 16 once too, but please : grow up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:21 PM on July 28, 2002
no-one really learns much, and we're all just here having a laugh at the links
Oh really now?
We all get different things out of MeFi at different times, I guess. But if it's laughs you're looking for, the hilariously defensive over-reaction that pops up whenever someone suggests a bit of restraint on the Fark factor here is always good for a few chuckles.
This is not really a forum for serious debate
Well, it won't be if folks like you get their way, that's for sure. Thank goodness your experience isn't the rule for all of us, though. Bottom line: Anyone not interested in "serious debate" here shouldn't jump into one, especially not with cracks about other members being "bitches." And cheering that kind of crap on is just plain disgusting.
posted by mediareport at 9:43 PM on July 28, 2002
Oh really now?
We all get different things out of MeFi at different times, I guess. But if it's laughs you're looking for, the hilariously defensive over-reaction that pops up whenever someone suggests a bit of restraint on the Fark factor here is always good for a few chuckles.
This is not really a forum for serious debate
Well, it won't be if folks like you get their way, that's for sure. Thank goodness your experience isn't the rule for all of us, though. Bottom line: Anyone not interested in "serious debate" here shouldn't jump into one, especially not with cracks about other members being "bitches." And cheering that kind of crap on is just plain disgusting.
posted by mediareport at 9:43 PM on July 28, 2002
And most Asians do eat rice. And eating rice is a good thing. isn't it? So what's the problem?
Well, okay, let's take a vehicle that's overly associated with the stereotypical African-American urban culture, like, oh say, a Lexus Coupe.
Then let's say we start calling it a "Watermelon Buggy." Let's be certain to use a food product which would have absolutely no natural reason to be associated with the vehicle. Then let's say the meaning eventually comes to mean a Lexus Coupe or other expensive car with a tricked out sound system, where albums like Nelly's "Country Grammar" can be heard for miles around, and that the term bears a distinct negative connotation.
Then let's pretend someone goes, "What's a watermelon buggy, and why is it called that?"
And upon some half-cocked explanation that liberally includes the disclaimers, "But it's not racist or stereotypical, really!" and, "Black people aren't the only ones who drive watermelon buggies, so the term is NOT racist," let's then continue to imagine that the term "watermelon buggy" is perfectly acceptable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an oversensitive bitch.
Exact. Same. Thing.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
p.s. --being long termed an "oreo" builds up a serious immunity to slurs, so I am, as ever, quite thick-skinned. But the mainstream insult value of a racially-driven term, be it "nigger" high or "ricer" low in no way negates that it is, in fact, an insult. Please stop pretending it's not.
posted by precocious at 9:58 PM on July 28, 2002
Well, okay, let's take a vehicle that's overly associated with the stereotypical African-American urban culture, like, oh say, a Lexus Coupe.
Then let's say we start calling it a "Watermelon Buggy." Let's be certain to use a food product which would have absolutely no natural reason to be associated with the vehicle. Then let's say the meaning eventually comes to mean a Lexus Coupe or other expensive car with a tricked out sound system, where albums like Nelly's "Country Grammar" can be heard for miles around, and that the term bears a distinct negative connotation.
Then let's pretend someone goes, "What's a watermelon buggy, and why is it called that?"
And upon some half-cocked explanation that liberally includes the disclaimers, "But it's not racist or stereotypical, really!" and, "Black people aren't the only ones who drive watermelon buggies, so the term is NOT racist," let's then continue to imagine that the term "watermelon buggy" is perfectly acceptable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an oversensitive bitch.
Exact. Same. Thing.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
p.s. --being long termed an "oreo" builds up a serious immunity to slurs, so I am, as ever, quite thick-skinned. But the mainstream insult value of a racially-driven term, be it "nigger" high or "ricer" low in no way negates that it is, in fact, an insult. Please stop pretending it's not.
posted by precocious at 9:58 PM on July 28, 2002
I was planning to present an almost identical example, precocious, but, not being really up on the Burning Question of Race (with regard to African-Americans especially (aside : it seems as if it's much more acceptable to exhibit racist attitudes towards Asians than it is towards black Americans in the US today)) that seems to occupy so much of the American mindset, I felt unqualified to do so.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:11 PM on July 28, 2002
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:11 PM on July 28, 2002
Bitch.
Just giving back what was handed to me, evanizer. Glad you caught on.
posted by mediareport at 10:11 PM on July 28, 2002
Just giving back what was handed to me, evanizer. Glad you caught on.
posted by mediareport at 10:11 PM on July 28, 2002
I also would be interested to see a reference for jcterminal's root of the word. It's an attractive, if unlikely, definition.
Unlikely, but not totally impossible... True story: A kid starts university with no money and no income. Gets first term's grant cheque. Spends entire sum on a sack of rolled oats and the Vespa he's always dreamed of. Tries to live on porridge. Drops out of university after first term and disappears.
posted by southisup at 10:36 PM on July 28, 2002
Unlikely, but not totally impossible... True story: A kid starts university with no money and no income. Gets first term's grant cheque. Spends entire sum on a sack of rolled oats and the Vespa he's always dreamed of. Tries to live on porridge. Drops out of university after first term and disappears.
posted by southisup at 10:36 PM on July 28, 2002
Alright, I'm an 18 year old Asian. If you ask me, though the term rice rocket clearly originally as a racial comment, it has become something that really does talk about the cars more than the people. Ricers are one of those stereotypes that are actually true - you do see a lot of Asian kids around my age mutilating their Honda Civics by adding stickers and loud fart tips. But now and then you do see that weird Mustang with Altezzas driven by a white guy, at which point one might say "wow, that's one riced-out Mustang." I'm not offended at all by the term - maybe because I disagree so much with the whole ricer culture, and honestly I find the entire really stupid. I personally drive a 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse, which one might at first think is a rice rocket... but then I'll tell you it's completely stock, no stickers or anything, and I got it because it was a great deal and is a pretty good car.
Ricers, fobs, and terms like that really don't offend me much because I can admit that they exist (and unfortunately, there sure seem to be a lot of em). As an Asian (though a pretty white-washed one, as some would say), I find them more embarassing than anything else. I laugh when I see rice rockets, especially ones that have so much money in artificial useless upgrades that the person probably could have gotten a better car for the total money spent.
I'm not a big fan of the American muscle car either, though. I don't like the raw and somewhat clumsy (though admittedly very powerful) aura they give out. I'm more of a German, sleek, classy, finesse type of car guy.
posted by swank6 at 12:31 AM on July 29, 2002
Ricers, fobs, and terms like that really don't offend me much because I can admit that they exist (and unfortunately, there sure seem to be a lot of em). As an Asian (though a pretty white-washed one, as some would say), I find them more embarassing than anything else. I laugh when I see rice rockets, especially ones that have so much money in artificial useless upgrades that the person probably could have gotten a better car for the total money spent.
I'm not a big fan of the American muscle car either, though. I don't like the raw and somewhat clumsy (though admittedly very powerful) aura they give out. I'm more of a German, sleek, classy, finesse type of car guy.
posted by swank6 at 12:31 AM on July 29, 2002
Exact. Same. Thing. — precocious
Nope. Japanese bikes have long been sneeringly called "rice-burners" because, well, they're from Japan, where they grow a fuckload of rice. So, Japanese cars got the same pejorative nickname, and people who trick them out are now called "ricers". The association is geographical.
Now, if Lexuses were made in regions where watermelons were popular, and were called "watermelon crates" (which would at least be a good pun!) that'd be a good analogy. But it still wouldn't be a racist reference.
Or, if we called tricked out Japanese cars "slant-fours" (another pretty decent pun!) then your analogy would hold, and both terms would be racist. But we don't.
posted by nicwolff at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2002
Nope. Japanese bikes have long been sneeringly called "rice-burners" because, well, they're from Japan, where they grow a fuckload of rice. So, Japanese cars got the same pejorative nickname, and people who trick them out are now called "ricers". The association is geographical.
Now, if Lexuses were made in regions where watermelons were popular, and were called "watermelon crates" (which would at least be a good pun!) that'd be a good analogy. But it still wouldn't be a racist reference.
Or, if we called tricked out Japanese cars "slant-fours" (another pretty decent pun!) then your analogy would hold, and both terms would be racist. But we don't.
posted by nicwolff at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2002
I used the phrase "white-wash. Evanizer responded by saying:
That's a racist statement as well, monju_bosatsu. By equating the term 'white' with thinly veiled racism, aren't you also ascribing a stereotype to a group of people based on their race? You see where this madness leads, to the total inability of people to speak about anyone and anything for fear of causing offense.
The problem with that argument is that "white-wash" clearly comes from the use of white paint to cover up an otherwise unattractive facade. Just because a word or phrase sounds like it's un-PC doesn't mean it is. I'm not concerned about people taking subjective offense at hearing certain phrases, I'm more concerned about the objective racist components of language.
For example, I don't get hacked off when people use the word "nigardly." A few years ago the NAACP was up in arms when a politician used that word. Lest anyone need its etymology and dictionary definition: "niggardly," means "grudging and petty in giving or spending," and it is derived from a 14th century Scandinavian word meaning miser. It is not derived from the word it sounds like.
Similarly, there is an objective historical and etymological difference in the origins of the terms "white-wash" and "ricer." The phrase "white-wash" has a definite, and I might add, innocent, derivation. I'm not convinced of the same argument on the part of the phrase "ricer."
My advice: get used to it. Unless someone is using words in a manner to incite hatred or violence, I think we can live with it. I'd rather put up with a few non-PC words than live in fear of the language police.
The problem is that the use of offensive language systematically oppresses ethnic groups as wells as creating and perpetuating stereotypes. For example, I've hear a number of people use the word "jew" as a verb for sharp dealing without even realizing its origins. Most are taken aback when someone points out the racist undertones in such a use, and hadn't ever really thought about the way they used that word in the past. Because they were naive and meant well, should we tolerate the use of the derogatory use of the word "jew?" Certainly not.
I'm not advocating laws against such use, or making offensive words and phrases into hate crimes, I'm simply advocating that people should be conscious of the language they use. If you're going to use a word like "jew" in the context I described above, or the word "n****r", or, for that matter, "white-wash" or "niggardly", you should know where the words come from and you should understand the meaning they carry.
If though = language, then controlling language is controlling though to one degree or another, which is just not cool, as the kids say.
Too bad that's a false syllogism. Other should feel free to point out the flaws.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2002
That's a racist statement as well, monju_bosatsu. By equating the term 'white' with thinly veiled racism, aren't you also ascribing a stereotype to a group of people based on their race? You see where this madness leads, to the total inability of people to speak about anyone and anything for fear of causing offense.
The problem with that argument is that "white-wash" clearly comes from the use of white paint to cover up an otherwise unattractive facade. Just because a word or phrase sounds like it's un-PC doesn't mean it is. I'm not concerned about people taking subjective offense at hearing certain phrases, I'm more concerned about the objective racist components of language.
For example, I don't get hacked off when people use the word "nigardly." A few years ago the NAACP was up in arms when a politician used that word. Lest anyone need its etymology and dictionary definition: "niggardly," means "grudging and petty in giving or spending," and it is derived from a 14th century Scandinavian word meaning miser. It is not derived from the word it sounds like.
Similarly, there is an objective historical and etymological difference in the origins of the terms "white-wash" and "ricer." The phrase "white-wash" has a definite, and I might add, innocent, derivation. I'm not convinced of the same argument on the part of the phrase "ricer."
My advice: get used to it. Unless someone is using words in a manner to incite hatred or violence, I think we can live with it. I'd rather put up with a few non-PC words than live in fear of the language police.
The problem is that the use of offensive language systematically oppresses ethnic groups as wells as creating and perpetuating stereotypes. For example, I've hear a number of people use the word "jew" as a verb for sharp dealing without even realizing its origins. Most are taken aback when someone points out the racist undertones in such a use, and hadn't ever really thought about the way they used that word in the past. Because they were naive and meant well, should we tolerate the use of the derogatory use of the word "jew?" Certainly not.
I'm not advocating laws against such use, or making offensive words and phrases into hate crimes, I'm simply advocating that people should be conscious of the language they use. If you're going to use a word like "jew" in the context I described above, or the word "n****r", or, for that matter, "white-wash" or "niggardly", you should know where the words come from and you should understand the meaning they carry.
If though = language, then controlling language is controlling though to one degree or another, which is just not cool, as the kids say.
Too bad that's a false syllogism. Other should feel free to point out the flaws.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2002
I'm not concerned about people taking subjective offense at hearing certain phrases
You mean like when people take offense to the word 'rice'?
posted by evanizer at 7:29 AM on July 29, 2002
You mean like when people take offense to the word 'rice'?
posted by evanizer at 7:29 AM on July 29, 2002
You mean like when people take offense to the word 'rice'?
Come on. You know as well as I that I'm not talking about taking offense at the word "rice," but rather, the derogatory use of the word "ricer." Should we forget what Fuzzy Zoeller said about fried chicken and collard greens when Tiger won his first Masters? After all, he was only talking about food, right?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:38 AM on July 29, 2002
Come on. You know as well as I that I'm not talking about taking offense at the word "rice," but rather, the derogatory use of the word "ricer." Should we forget what Fuzzy Zoeller said about fried chicken and collard greens when Tiger won his first Masters? After all, he was only talking about food, right?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:38 AM on July 29, 2002
I find it relatively hard to believe that most people in the car community would apply "ricer" to non-asians, even when they fit the other purported characteristics.
I know nothing of this "car community" of which you speak, but I do know a number of pizza-faced teenagers who decorate their Honda Civics with yellow plastic dashboard trim, incongruously menacing exhaust pipes & spoilers, painted hubcaps, and "racing" stickers. From hearing these kids talk, I have always understood "ricer" to be a word that's all about the car, not about the person---I mean, it always sounded pretty pan-racial to me, in usage.
A site I remember these kids being very fond of is beaterz.com, where the "one liners" section is made up entirely of snapshots taken in parking lots of cars-to-be-laughed-at. Quite a number of "riceboy" comments---worth noting that none of these cars are occupied by any drivers or passengers? (Warning: people who may or may not be offended by these pages include not only Asians, but also women, gays, potheads, and Star Trek fans. Other warning: you might catch yourself stifling a chuckle anyway, if only at the goofy cars.) One of the cars pictured is even painted with its very own Got Rice? tagline... only thing better than a punkass poser is a self-aware punkass poser.
I've no input on whether or not we should be all painfully offended, other than to salute sudama for his unflagging dedication to vigilance against painful offense...... just saying that my own observations seem to back up the claim that anyone of any color can be a riceboy, if only his car is ridiculous enough.
posted by Sapphireblue at 7:44 AM on July 29, 2002
I know nothing of this "car community" of which you speak, but I do know a number of pizza-faced teenagers who decorate their Honda Civics with yellow plastic dashboard trim, incongruously menacing exhaust pipes & spoilers, painted hubcaps, and "racing" stickers. From hearing these kids talk, I have always understood "ricer" to be a word that's all about the car, not about the person---I mean, it always sounded pretty pan-racial to me, in usage.
A site I remember these kids being very fond of is beaterz.com, where the "one liners" section is made up entirely of snapshots taken in parking lots of cars-to-be-laughed-at. Quite a number of "riceboy" comments---worth noting that none of these cars are occupied by any drivers or passengers? (Warning: people who may or may not be offended by these pages include not only Asians, but also women, gays, potheads, and Star Trek fans. Other warning: you might catch yourself stifling a chuckle anyway, if only at the goofy cars.) One of the cars pictured is even painted with its very own Got Rice? tagline... only thing better than a punkass poser is a self-aware punkass poser.
I've no input on whether or not we should be all painfully offended, other than to salute sudama for his unflagging dedication to vigilance against painful offense...... just saying that my own observations seem to back up the claim that anyone of any color can be a riceboy, if only his car is ridiculous enough.
posted by Sapphireblue at 7:44 AM on July 29, 2002
From the Generation Rice interview with Margaret Cho:
...people have such a casualness about racism against Asians that it really is kind of an agreement in society that this is okay. Like, this is typified by Abercrombie & Fitch who put out the line of T-shirts with very racist Asian depictions. This is so not acceptable and yet it was done by this huge corporation. And they sort of excused it by saying, Oh, we asked some Asians around the office and they said it was okay. You know, it’s not okay! It’s not okay.
I'm Asian-American and I definitely do not like the connotations associated with "ricer" no matter what jcterminal thinks.
posted by gen at 7:46 AM on July 29, 2002
...people have such a casualness about racism against Asians that it really is kind of an agreement in society that this is okay. Like, this is typified by Abercrombie & Fitch who put out the line of T-shirts with very racist Asian depictions. This is so not acceptable and yet it was done by this huge corporation. And they sort of excused it by saying, Oh, we asked some Asians around the office and they said it was okay. You know, it’s not okay! It’s not okay.
I'm Asian-American and I definitely do not like the connotations associated with "ricer" no matter what jcterminal thinks.
posted by gen at 7:46 AM on July 29, 2002
Just because a word or phrase sounds like it's un-PC doesn't mean it is.
Is that the crux of this particular debate, then? Also, words are only good or worthy of use if they are PC?
for that matter, "white-wash" or "niggardly", you should know where the words come from and you should understand the meaning they carry.
Especially when you use a word like niggardly, you risk many loud and angry fools taking exception to what you said. It's usually not the problem of the person saying it, but who's listening. There have been several people across the country fired for saying "niggardly."
Here's an interesting Salon article (book review) about the word nigger, which is much more offensive than ricer, within the right context. It's all about context. When you read Huckleberry Finn in elementary school as a child (do they let children read that anymore), were you offended by the use of the word nigger? Are you offended when Chris Rock uses it? What about Ja Rule, DMX, or Tupac? The same can be said for ricer. Sure, in some contexts, it could be offensive, but I don't think hidely's post was one of them.
posted by insomnyuk at 7:47 AM on July 29, 2002
Is that the crux of this particular debate, then? Also, words are only good or worthy of use if they are PC?
for that matter, "white-wash" or "niggardly", you should know where the words come from and you should understand the meaning they carry.
Especially when you use a word like niggardly, you risk many loud and angry fools taking exception to what you said. It's usually not the problem of the person saying it, but who's listening. There have been several people across the country fired for saying "niggardly."
Here's an interesting Salon article (book review) about the word nigger, which is much more offensive than ricer, within the right context. It's all about context. When you read Huckleberry Finn in elementary school as a child (do they let children read that anymore), were you offended by the use of the word nigger? Are you offended when Chris Rock uses it? What about Ja Rule, DMX, or Tupac? The same can be said for ricer. Sure, in some contexts, it could be offensive, but I don't think hidely's post was one of them.
posted by insomnyuk at 7:47 AM on July 29, 2002
gen: Do you agree with that quote from 'Generation Rice'? That Abercrombie & Fitch T-shirt line didn't go over well at all.
posted by ODiV at 8:06 AM on July 29, 2002
posted by ODiV at 8:06 AM on July 29, 2002
Check the next lines in the Cho interview, ODiV:
There are these kids from Stanford who started a huge Internet boycott of Abercrombie & Fitch and got kids from all over the country to go and boycott the stores and got the T-shirts off the market immediately. I'm inspired by them. The other generation is really flexing their political power and that is really inspiring to me.
The reason the shirts didn't go over well wasn't that the masses rejected stereotypical Asian imagery, if that's what you're implying. A small group of people started making phone calls; A&F was surprised by the negative reaction and almost immediately took the shirts off the market because they weren't going over well with an audience the "liberal" company wanted to keep. Of course, what Cho sees as flexing political power in a positive way others will choose to see as folks acting like "overly-sensitive bitches."
posted by mediareport at 8:33 AM on July 29, 2002
There are these kids from Stanford who started a huge Internet boycott of Abercrombie & Fitch and got kids from all over the country to go and boycott the stores and got the T-shirts off the market immediately. I'm inspired by them. The other generation is really flexing their political power and that is really inspiring to me.
The reason the shirts didn't go over well wasn't that the masses rejected stereotypical Asian imagery, if that's what you're implying. A small group of people started making phone calls; A&F was surprised by the negative reaction and almost immediately took the shirts off the market because they weren't going over well with an audience the "liberal" company wanted to keep. Of course, what Cho sees as flexing political power in a positive way others will choose to see as folks acting like "overly-sensitive bitches."
posted by mediareport at 8:33 AM on July 29, 2002
Especially when you use a word like niggardly, you risk many loud and angry fools taking exception to what you said.
Funny, I get that with most everything I say.
I think the fundamental misconception that many people have is in thinking that a word reflects upon the one it is used to describe or refer to, rather than the one who chooses to use it to express himself. Certainly, there is a fuzzy gray area of misconception and misinterpretation, but that's just the nature of language itself.
Words are neutral; the user provides the connotation.
posted by rushmc at 8:41 AM on July 29, 2002
Funny, I get that with most everything I say.
I think the fundamental misconception that many people have is in thinking that a word reflects upon the one it is used to describe or refer to, rather than the one who chooses to use it to express himself. Certainly, there is a fuzzy gray area of misconception and misinterpretation, but that's just the nature of language itself.
Words are neutral; the user provides the connotation.
posted by rushmc at 8:41 AM on July 29, 2002
So, Margaret Cho is allowed to traffic in Asian stereotype, as she often does in her act, but then gets mad when other people do the same thing? I don't get it. Oh, she's using stereotype ironically, to teach us that stereotype is wrong! Oh, I get it! Um, well, maybe I don't get it...
posted by evanizer at 9:06 AM on July 29, 2002
posted by evanizer at 9:06 AM on July 29, 2002
I live in Vancouver, where the demographics of the city have dramatically changed in the last ten years with a large influx of Asians (mostly from Hong Kong). I have never heard the term "ricer" in a manner that isn't intended to have racial overtones. Perhaps in places with little or no Asian population the term is used by white guys to white guys, but so is the "n word", which doesn't make it any less horrible.
posted by jess at 9:07 AM on July 29, 2002
posted by jess at 9:07 AM on July 29, 2002
which doesn't make it any less horrible.
Context and perspective do make it more horrible or less horrible.
posted by insomnyuk at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2002
Context and perspective do make it more horrible or less horrible.
posted by insomnyuk at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2002
Insert obligatory rice pudding reference here.
Yes, it does all come down to dessert, thank you very much.
posted by ebarker at 9:25 AM on July 29, 2002
Yes, it does all come down to dessert, thank you very much.
posted by ebarker at 9:25 AM on July 29, 2002
woot! most loved and most hated in the same thread! i win!
posted by jcterminal at 10:15 AM on July 29, 2002
posted by jcterminal at 10:15 AM on July 29, 2002
btw: stavros. that was almost a year ago. you should get over it. some people react to horror in different ways. i used to actually PLAY IN THE SHADOWS of those towers, so i can react however i damned well please as long as it makes it easier for me to sleep at night.
it's called gallows humour, and sometimes it's needed, even if it's considered 'bad taste' by rice-eating south american aboriginal indians.
posted by jcterminal at 10:22 AM on July 29, 2002
it's called gallows humour, and sometimes it's needed, even if it's considered 'bad taste' by rice-eating south american aboriginal indians.
posted by jcterminal at 10:22 AM on July 29, 2002
it's called gallows humour, and sometimes it's needed, even if it's considered 'bad taste' by rice-eating south american aboriginal indians.
Gallows humor is funny, woot. What you did -- breaking up a beautiful moment because you apparently couldn't handle the tension -- doesn't count. The bad boy schtick is tired for a good reason.
posted by mediareport at 10:53 AM on July 29, 2002
Gallows humor is funny, woot. What you did -- breaking up a beautiful moment because you apparently couldn't handle the tension -- doesn't count. The bad boy schtick is tired for a good reason.
posted by mediareport at 10:53 AM on July 29, 2002
oh yeah, there's nothing more beautiful by the text version of a moment of silence done by the comfort of your computer desk. nor was there any "tension" to break.
fuck that. you want beauty, hug your children. hug your dog. be at ground zero this coming september. plant a fucking tree without a permit.
your definition of beauty is pretty ugly.
posted by jcterminal at 12:10 PM on July 29, 2002
fuck that. you want beauty, hug your children. hug your dog. be at ground zero this coming september. plant a fucking tree without a permit.
your definition of beauty is pretty ugly.
posted by jcterminal at 12:10 PM on July 29, 2002
jcterminal: even if it's considered 'bad taste' by rice-eating south american aboriginal indians.
Clarification?
posted by signal at 12:32 PM on July 29, 2002
Clarification?
posted by signal at 12:32 PM on July 29, 2002
your definition of beauty is pretty ugly.
and that obligates you to ruin it?
posted by rhyax at 1:53 PM on July 29, 2002
and that obligates you to ruin it?
posted by rhyax at 1:53 PM on July 29, 2002
your definition of beauty is pretty ugly.
Ugly Beauty is a problem? Every time you open your mouth, woot, you show how much you still have to learn.
posted by mediareport at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2002
Ugly Beauty is a problem? Every time you open your mouth, woot, you show how much you still have to learn.
posted by mediareport at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2002
signal: no thanks, i'm full.
rhyax: i didn't ruin it because it didn't exist.
mediareport: i never believe media reports. they're too biased.
posted by jcterminal at 6:25 PM on July 29, 2002
rhyax: i didn't ruin it because it didn't exist.
mediareport: i never believe media reports. they're too biased.
posted by jcterminal at 6:25 PM on July 29, 2002
outside of a quote from me and your signature, i don't see anything else in your last post media.
zing!
posted by jcterminal at 7:28 PM on August 1, 2002
zing!
posted by jcterminal at 7:28 PM on August 1, 2002
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n. an implement for ricing potatoes, squash, etc. by pressing them through small holes.
posted by swift at 10:56 PM on July 27, 2002