US Election Day Roundup November 7, 2016 9:01 PM   Subscribe

Here's your one-stop shop for US election day stuff. We'll link the current election posts here for easy reference: Presidential/national election discussion, and State and local level election discussion. In this thread folks can discuss how we're handling it or other meta issues that come up.

On the blue
We'll have two threads at a time: one for the Presidential race, and the other for State and local races and ballot measures. The division probably won't be perfect but we'll ask folks to try.

We'll edit this Metatalk post as needed with updated links to the current thread, if a new thread becomes necessary.
-Current post-election post: Presidential/national level discussion
-Current election post: State and local level election discussion

(Earlier election-day and post-election posts:
1.) midnight, Dixville Notch NH, the first polls in the US
2.) most-of-election-day post: Presidential/national level discussion
3.) successor election-day and day-after thread
4.) next few days post-election post)

For these threads, please keep it substantial/contextful, so that a late reader can follow everything. If you're reposting from Twitter, group the info, so you're not just posting many single-tweet one-liners. Threads get slow largely because of the absolute number of comments, so many one-liner comments are more of a problem than fewer, longer ones. Please label your links and use [real]/[fake] tags as needed, and check whether your link/quote has been posted before -- use ctrl-F in most browsers to find text, or paste your link into the Mefi search bar at the top of the page to find comments containing that link.

Tip: For better performance, switch to Classic theme in your Preferences -- with very long threads, it's easier for most browsers to handle than Modern theme.


In the Election Chatroom
One-liners of "I'm freaking out!!" and contextless "omg!" reactions should go to Election Chat. Tech-support questions about chat -- here's the FAQ entry, frimble's recent thorough instructions, or come ask in Metatalk, right here.


In Metatalk
Metadiscussion about election threads belongs in here!
-how we're handling the election threads,
-whether it's time to open a new thread,
-what Metafilter is like,
-how to get into the Chat room, etc.

Other election-related MetaTalks:
MeTa to share your Voting stories
MeTa to share your election predictions
MeTa to share your election night plans
MeTa to share your election volunteering stories
MeTa about longer-term big-picture stuff about politics on the site

- - - - - -
Also:

- Please bear with us.
We'll try to uphold the separations we're suggesting here, and keep the noise down, but it's not going to be perfect. You can help by only flagging if it's something important that we probably haven't seen.
Flagging tips for very busy threads:
-Noise -- probably not worth flagging today
-Offensive -- probably we'll see this quickly, so if something's obviously offensive, give us a minute and reload rather than responding
-Old comments -- rarely worth flagging if they're over 30 min's old in a busy thread, since they'll almost certainly stay
-Multi-comment problems -- If you're flagging more than 3 comments at a time, it's generally better to drop us a note to the contact form instead; flagging ten comments just slows us down.

- Expect less warning/explanation.
If it's super busy, we may need to delete stuff without explanation, or even give people the day off without the usual amount of warning. You can ask us what's up at the contact form; bear with us as our reply may be slower than usual.

- Be kind, cut people some slack, keep an eye on your self-care (food, water, deep breaths, etc). Everybody's tense, let's not make it worse by going after each other or deliberately poking known sore points.

Also, a nice thing:
Last chance for Secret Quonsar Sign-ups - You have just one more day to sign up for Mefi's secret holiday gift exchange!
posted by LobsterMitten to MetaFilter-Related at 9:01 PM (119 comments total) 16 users marked this as a favorite

A pre-emptive thank you to the mods.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:29 PM on November 7, 2016 [38 favorites]


Thank you. Good luck out there. Keep your powder dry and your head down. #TeamMods
posted by AugustWest at 9:41 PM on November 7, 2016 [3 favorites]


Mercy buckets, very excellent mod team.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:43 PM on November 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on November 7, 2016 [15 favorites]


Just saw the headline. Hil won in Dixville Notch NH.
posted by sammyo at 9:46 PM on November 7, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Keep your powder dry and your head down. #TeamMods"

I took the bullets out my gun.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:49 PM on November 7, 2016 [25 favorites]


No new thread? My poor phone!
posted by Joe Chip at 9:51 PM on November 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


And for the love of a God, please run URLs through the Search box to see if they've already been posted. Cutting out reposts alone will reduce the thread activity by half!!!

</hyperbole>
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:55 PM on November 7, 2016 [8 favorites]


Also read the whole MTP before making a comment!

dammit
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:56 PM on November 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


Current thread is just under 2100 comments, and knock wood, it'll remain workable until the two posts go up tomorrow, which I think will be late morningish eastern US time. We've sort of been seeing 3000 or 3500 comments as a rough point where folks start to really have trouble.

And thank you right back! I have so appreciated everyone's commentary and support through this insane year; I feel so fortunate to have this place as a home during the election. Together we can do this thing. :fistbumps:
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:56 PM on November 7, 2016 [10 favorites]


Nice Meta; added.

And for the love of a God, please run URLs through the Search box to see if they've already been posted. Cutting out reposts alone will reduce the thread activity by half!!!

Yes, a thousand times yes.

No new thread? My poor phone!

Get some sleep! Tomorrow is another day. Speaking of which, now I've woken up (England is cold and dark)(no change there, then) to see someone cast their vote for Mittens (WHY?!!) am going to attempt Sleep 2.0 Zzzzzzzz
posted by Wordshore at 9:59 PM on November 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


No new thread? My poor phone!

I've found the election threads work much better on a tablet; the bigger screen has a lot more room
posted by beerperson at 10:14 PM on November 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


Many thanks to the mods for your STAMINA, HIGH ENERGY, and GOOD TEMPERAMENT through all these fast-moving election posts. Y'all da best.
posted by mochapickle at 11:24 PM on November 7, 2016 [8 favorites]


Don't forget our big hands.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:35 PM on November 7, 2016 [20 favorites]


You say that now, but when Reddit operatives hack the mods' private slack channel and leak it to MetaLeaks, we're going to find out it's all been rigged from the beginning.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 PM on November 7, 2016 [4 favorites]


It will be 99% me trying to figure out how to make Slack make me a Diet Coke icon. Sad!
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 11:52 PM on November 7, 2016 [6 favorites]


Some people are saying mods on the Slack channel are offering each other hints on the Map Quiz. I don't know, but that's what I'm hearing.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:53 PM on November 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


America friends, you are not ignorant of prior woes - and some have known worse things. But the fates will grant an end, even to this.

You have endured the Scylla's crags, deep-resounding, and the Cyclops' cruel rocks: now, take hope of courage and be invincible to fear. Perhaps it could be sweet to recall even these things, one day.

Through diverse horrors and trials, we make our way toward tomorrow, where fate may grant us a peaceful abode. It is right that the realm of love rise again there.

Endure, I beg you. And keep yourselves safe for future developments!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 11:56 PM on November 7, 2016 [13 favorites]


Vote #1
posted by mannequito at 11:59 PM on November 7, 2016 [7 favorites]


Well great, now you just got me to figure out the map quiz (I think I've got it).
posted by zachlipton at 12:01 AM on November 8, 2016


If you start feeling overwhelmed, helpless, have difficulty breathing, difficulty focusing, or just need a break, here are some helpful and (hopefully) comforting links.

Doll Divine has a bunch of doll creators; one of my favorites is the Gemsona Creator, but I have a soft spot for Queen Seondeok. If you have a printer, the Bloggess keeps sharing pictures to color - she made a whole coloring book which isn't out yet, but she also made a bunch just to give to us so we can print them out and color them in. My favorite is "You may not see the light you bring, but never doubt that you shine." Past Bloggess hits include The Traveling Red Dress, Wil Wheaton Collating Paper, Beyonce, and an anniversary present somehow outdoing Beyonce.

TinyKittens and KittenCam bring you kitties. There are also Golden Retriever Puppies while Warrior Canine Connection trains puppies to be service animals. The Aviarios Del Caribe Sloth Sanctuary has some videos featuring the first sloth, Buttercup and was featured in the series Meet the Sloths. There's even Kristen Bell's Sloth Meltdown if you somehow missed it. There are also Squirrel Mazes. You read that right - mazes for squirrels.

If you want your Hamilton leavened with some goofy, check out the Schulyer Georges. For older and yet somehow more adorable Lin-Manuel, check out his ad for In the Heights (his first musical) or when it became a Ham4Ham. For classicists, here's the whole album. On more pure music recommendations, I've become a huge fan of Dessa and Kerli; both have amazing videos. There's also always Formation, Seriously, and Stressed Out.

If Hamilton isn't your jam, you can always play the Welcome to Night Vale Text Adventure a few times and pledge your allegiance to the Glow Cloud. Similarly pop culturey is Texts from Superheros or Jay and Miles X-Plain the X-Men. I also lost at least an hour watching Zach King. Like... what? Shawn Farquhar does a cool routine to Shape of my Heart. I also love the Penn and Teller's version of the cups and balls - it never grows old. Going for pure comedy, I've been living for Tig Notaro's videos this week - especially her seeing Taylor Daine, deconstructing Goldilocks, and living in the moment.

You're all wonderful. We've got this. Breathe.
posted by Deoridhe at 12:15 AM on November 8, 2016 [42 favorites]


Could I ask those of you, especially in Trump country, to please reach out on Facebook as a place for people to crash if they need? Subtext: if they need to get the heck out of their house if/when Clinton wins and the Trump husband suddenly puts two and two together about wives secretly voting Hillary, and the nearly-600 days of Two Minutes Hate get their tinder lit and yeah. Note: a wife does not need to have voted Hillary for this to happen. Abusive types are known to go off with even imagined threats to their power/control.

So please reach out. No need to go into detail, just let people know you're there if they need you. I've already posted to secret Hillary groups to ask if journalists can mention domestic abuse hotlines, and written to the campaign as well, to see if they have other ideas.
posted by fraula at 1:23 AM on November 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


This community has done an amazing job of all things election. Thank you — it is much appreciated!
posted by iamkimiam at 1:34 AM on November 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I am eagerly awaiting the new thread. The current thread has reached the limit of what I'm able to download. =/

TBH I came here to (selfishly) suggest that we consider new posts at a lower number of comments in the future. I know that MetaFilter skews toward the coastal middle class, but a lot of people don't have the option of switching devices, and don't have fast internet.

This doesn't come up too often, of course, but when it does it's often the threads that I most want to participate in / watch.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:24 AM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


By the way, chat election channel is now open in Mefi Chat.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:31 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Just voted. Teared up. Didn't see that coming.
posted by Shutter at 4:16 AM on November 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Any chance we could disable the favorites limit for today only?
posted by Chrysostom at 5:22 AM on November 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Seconding the request for ALL THE FAVORITES.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:53 AM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


sorry, but our poor mefi engine is huffing and puffing and working its little heart out as it is ... it just cannae handle the LOVE BOMB of unlimited favorites.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:10 AM on November 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Okay, just disable the limit for ME, then.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:13 AM on November 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't get to bust these earrings out very often, but today seemed like the correct day.
posted by ActionPopulated at 6:34 AM on November 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


*plunks self down in chat for duration*
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:34 AM on November 8, 2016


And for some soothing along the way...
posted by y2karl at 6:40 AM on November 8, 2016


Dearest mod team, thank you for all of your hard work during this interminable election season. You are in my heart and thoughts today!
posted by merriment at 7:22 AM on November 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also read the whole MTP before making a comment!

I have a life, so I reserve the right to ignore that directive. Sincere apologies if it causes the fall of civilization.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:43 AM on November 8, 2016


Server error in election thread. No longer loading for me.

Anyone else?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Er wait, it just creaked back to life.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:55 AM on November 8, 2016


Yeah, looks like we just had a little load spike. The end of days for the current thread might be a little bumpy as people continue to get up, get voted, get on the site, etc, but we'll kick off the new on this morning and that'll help.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:57 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sorry I broke it booing at a video of trump voting :( sorry
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:04 AM on November 8, 2016


N-thing the love bomb for all the mods' hard work.

I'd also like to apologize to whomever I favorited and then unfavorited over the last week - I kept forgetting that I was optimisticly trying to save my 1400th favorite for the definitive call for Hillary or (shudder, makes sign against malocchio) the best Snark of Despair if Cheeto Golem Hitler Puppet prevails.
posted by romakimmy at 8:22 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


the LOVE BOMB of unlimited favorites

This sounds like a Music song challenge.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:24 AM on November 8, 2016


Heh. Speaking of, I regret not thinking to plan ahead to like last week and have folks record and send in extra vocal takes for Stay The Fuck In Line, could have made a big mefi choral mix.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:26 AM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Someone was asking me if I planned to go anywhere for election watching. Then they looked apologetic because they remembered I'm a solo parent of a 1st grader.

But I surprised 'em! I said, "I've got it sorted! I get to hang out with the fine folks of MetaFilter and watch history happen with the most amazing online community anywhere!"

Even if I could go elsewhere, part of my attention would be here, because I can't imagine not biting my nails and following along with the MeFite family.

Love to the mods for making it easy, organized, and logical.
posted by batmonkey at 8:41 AM on November 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


New election thread is live!
posted by cooker girl at 8:44 AM on November 8, 2016


I've updated this post with the new links to the Prez-level and State/local-level posts.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:46 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


And reminder, we're going to be cracking down a little harder on chatty comments in the threads than usual, trying to encourage people to go over to Chat for the "omg" and similar emotional vent kind of comments. Not a criticism of anyone who wants to participate that way! Just trying to keep the raw number of comments from getting out of hand early.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:01 AM on November 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've hit my favorite limit. First time since the favorites limit was increased, and only the fourth time overall. (And two of the previous occurrences were jokey "favorite ALL the comments" stunts, so really only the second legitimate time.) This is not a request for the favorites limit to be increased, just a report.

Also, huzzah to the mods for their hard work, dedication, and most of all good judgment! When MeFites go low, mods go high!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:01 AM on November 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I am so proud to tell y'all that your elections will be monitored by a Kenyan solution.
posted by infini at 10:24 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's already been said, but can't be said enough - thank you, mods, for the work you do every day, and especially today.
posted by okayokayigive at 10:32 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Don't want to post this in the main thread cause it's moving so fast so I came here to ask a question: any idea at what time it is most likely that the election will be "called"? I have a thing I have to go to but I don't want to miss the news, speeches, etc. when things start getting really interesting. I know it's hard to say a definite time, but maybe a general idea? I'm in Mexico yet I'm still nervous today for all you Americans. I remember 8 years ago watching Obama's and Mcain's speeches and was really excited.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:27 AM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]




Thanks zombieflanders, that article is just what I wanted.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:53 AM on November 8, 2016


I just got back from the polls; angry that my hand-scrawled Vote #1 quidnunc kid "ballot" was rejected. This electionis rigged!

Also, they made me read all the way to the end of the ballet before commenting!
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:57 PM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


You did wrong, 🎰.
posted by clavdivs at 1:12 PM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Off by one digit on each dial, Beastie Boy!
posted by y2karl at 1:42 PM on November 8, 2016


Mods, please consider loosening the favorites limit for today.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:15 PM on November 8, 2016


my hand-scrawled Vote #1 quidnunc kid "ballot" was rejected

Good! :-)
posted by the quidnunc kid at 2:31 PM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Volunteers get favorites" is going to be tough if we all run out.
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Just reminding everyone of MST3K Club's destress video marathon, I figure now's about the time where it starts to matter.
posted by JHarris at 2:55 PM on November 8, 2016


I would like to note that I actually had to read all the way to the end of the ballot. I got to stop reading the ballet after the first act. I am not sure what the swan had to do with the infrastructure bond referendum, but, hey.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:29 PM on November 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


That's a de-stress marathon, not distress...
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:43 PM on November 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Swans have really strong necks. And they can boost themselves off the ground to get a better angle on you. You'll notice their serpentine nature as they toss you about.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:14 PM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd love to see the mods right now. Who's watching AskMe if you're all in the election stuff?
posted by b33j at 5:11 PM on November 8, 2016


You are! If you see something, flag something.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:11 PM on November 8, 2016


Oh, what? Free modding?!? Right when I'm planning a hostile takeover while you're looking in the other direction? Okay, no worries. Good luck, guys.
posted by b33j at 5:15 PM on November 8, 2016


i think we just broke chat
posted by bq at 6:15 PM on November 8, 2016


sorry
posted by bq at 6:15 PM on November 8, 2016


Are you getting an error? It's still moving for me, lots of people in it.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:16 PM on November 8, 2016


im back!
posted by bq at 6:18 PM on November 8, 2016


Dial-up was quicker.
posted by clavdivs at 6:32 PM on November 8, 2016


Chat's down for me too :(
posted by Sutekh at 6:50 PM on November 8, 2016


I've given the chat server a kick. Let's see if that helps at all.
posted by frimble (staff) at 6:56 PM on November 8, 2016


frimble was rebooting chat to get rid of the increasing lag and said we could get back on in a few minutes. The sincere regret as we were informed of this during the chat-wide freakout that was going on was very touching.
posted by batmonkey at 6:56 PM on November 8, 2016


Yay chat back! Thank you to the mods for great effort!
posted by Sutekh at 7:01 PM on November 8, 2016


I'd love to see the mods right now.

Here's what my desk looks like.
posted by frimble (staff) at 7:05 PM on November 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


That is one heck of a tidy desk!

Mine is littered with candy wrappers and tears.
posted by dotgirl at 7:13 PM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Prayer beads are a nice touch, if that's what they are.

Neat desk envy. All very official looking!
posted by batmonkey at 7:19 PM on November 8, 2016


Cool, didn't know you could drive two extra screens from a laptop!
posted by sammyo at 7:35 PM on November 8, 2016


I need you guys. Please don't go away like that again.

(Thanks frimble!)
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on November 8, 2016


HALP
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:44 PM on November 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Wowza. Did we break Metafilter?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:45 PM on November 8, 2016


Would a new emergency election thread solve the problem or simply relocate it?
posted by zachlipton at 8:45 PM on November 8, 2016


who keeps breaking the site

is it putin
posted by poffin boffin at 8:46 PM on November 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


I feel so alone right now, please come back Metafilter.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 8:47 PM on November 8, 2016


wtf why is the election thread down
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:47 PM on November 8, 2016


[Opens another beer, FRANTICALLY RELOADS ELECTION THREAD]
posted by ryanshepard at 8:47 PM on November 8, 2016


I just went to post to offer seriously an escape route up to my crazy disabled life in Canada and the board's broke. Just putting it out there that seriously if anyone needs a place to go or any help from Canada contact me.
posted by kanata at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2016


I miss you all already!!! I'm just hitting refresh on the election results page over and over and I can't go to sleep already.
posted by xarnop at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2016


I CAN SEE PEOPLE COMMENTING IN IT IN RECENT ACTIVITY ARE THEY ALL PUTIN SOCKPUPPETS
posted by poffin boffin at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


New election thread
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2016


oh yay a new thread bye
posted by poffin boffin at 8:49 PM on November 8, 2016


Wowza. Did we break Metafilter?

Kinda, though we knew that was a possibility. We ended up with a cascade of load, between the thread getting steadily longer and a whole shitload of people hitting it constantly. That hit a nasty failure point where the demand was backing up and making stuff just not work.

So we temporarily stopped loading the original thread, with a placeholder message, and then in the vacation from crazy load that provided tossed up a new 2.0 thread to direct people to. Updated the banner, added a link to the new thread on the old thread's placeholder message, with a plan to bring the original thread back up once that all settled in a bit.

We had the idea of a second thread in mind just in case, but the load failure happened a lot more rapidly than we expected, so it was bumpier than hoped making the switch.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 PM on November 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just a quick note- thank you all very much for your tireless efforts to confine election-related posting to election threads. I tried to think of a better verb than "confine," but I think it fits.

It's made MetaFilter readable for me over the last several months, and I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way.

Given election results, will you consider a way to continue this policy in some form, at least in the short term for the next few months? Long term would be even better.

Thanks again!
posted by Old Man McKay at 12:28 AM on November 9, 2016 [5 favorites]


On a side note and performance wise, I don't think the high load on Mefi servers comes from the huge number of comments in election threads but from the high number of people lurking in it and having notifications of new comments. My two IT cents.
posted by nims at 2:16 AM on November 9, 2016


I really liked the weekly format. Nice job getting us through the season!
posted by michaelh at 4:25 AM on November 9, 2016


Yes, good job to the mods and admins.
posted by KaizenSoze at 5:23 AM on November 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, nims, it's definitely a multiplicative thing. The thread when the site fell over was nowhere near record length and not even up to the 3K or so where things have traditionally gotten a bit creaky. Just a lot of eyeballs last night, staring in disbelief and contributing to the load on, primarily, the db serving up so many extra requests. Part of why we were surprised by the swiftness of the falling-over; that's not our normal high-load scenario, so we're not as used to how it behaves.

Given election results, will you consider a way to continue this policy in some form, at least in the short term for the next few months?

We'll see how it plays out short term, beyond that I don't have any specific predictions. This is a very weird and difficult moment on the site and for the moment we're as a mod staff mostly just trying to keep up with last night and this morning. But as far as that goes I definitely don't want a long-term grief response to be flooding the front page with US election/politics stories, yeah; some sort of method of keeping that in check while still letting people discuss that stuff will be important, however specifically we navigate it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:09 AM on November 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


> some sort of method of keeping that in check while still letting people discuss that stuff will be important, however specifically we navigate it.

I suspect that once the adrenaline wears off, it could be as simple as a persistent sidebar link to the most recent active politics thread. Or even do nothing - the chatter will die down a lot as depression sets in.

Thanks for everything the Mod team accomplished here, though. It was a nice ride in the handbasket with y'all.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:46 AM on November 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks for everything, mods. Bumpy ride all around.
posted by nubs at 9:43 AM on November 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Admin and mods,

thanks
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:21 AM on November 9, 2016 [4 favorites]


thank you, admins and mods, for getting us, including myself, through this.. whatever it was.

I noticed a distinct lack of fresh posts today. I suppose we're all still reeling in disbelief. I tried to contribute with the most inane thing I could find. Then I sat there refreshing the home page over and over for new posts. I don't want to read anything political for as long as I can manage because I've lost hope in this country. But recover soon, beloved MeFi, we have to get moving again.
posted by numaner at 11:34 AM on November 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


I noticed a distinct lack of fresh posts today.

Check AskMe (or maybe don't). A lot of questions today provoked by the election result.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:59 PM on November 9, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yay, secret Quonsar! A distraction. Plus, neither of our families really do gifts anymore (boo).
posted by jrobin276 at 1:35 PM on November 9, 2016


Check AskMe (or maybe don't)

OH MY GOD yeah no thanks. I already teared up a few times at work each time I worked up the nerves to check instagram and got hit in the face with the despair (I was checking because there are plenty of purty nature photos to take my mind off of things, but somehow today there just aren't enough). I haven't even check FB all day because I'd like to not curl up in a fetal position at work (they frown on that).

I just popped into AskMe and saw a few questions about whether to marry from LGBT members and I had to close that tab right quick.
posted by numaner at 2:14 PM on November 9, 2016


I'm going back to cats and spoons! And Pokemon!
posted by numaner at 2:15 PM on November 9, 2016 [1 favorite]


I didn't want to talk about this while the election day threads were active in the moment and thus make more work for the mods, but I thought it was super weird that relatively innocuous comments expressing joy that Trump was being/had been elected were instadeleted, while many many posts with similar content expressing grief that Clinton was being defeated were allowed to stand.

I understand that the Clinton folks are a substantial majority here and there was a desperate desire to prevent the thread from turning into a huge fight, but it seemed like a really weird and problematic editorial decision. Are we totally happy to disenfranchise from the site the half of all Americans who supported Trump?
posted by 256 at 11:24 AM on November 10, 2016


There's no practical way to make an already-firehose thread workable with that dynamic of 99% of participants who think this is a Nazi-level threat to them personally or their loved ones, vs. one or two people want to talk about how good it is. There's no way that doesn't turn into a cascade of hundreds of comments attacking the person and freaking out in a way that spills over to the rest of the site.

It's not disenfranchising, because this isn't a democracy and it isn't anybody's national government. If someone feels they don't have a voice on this site, there are many alternatives; they can have an internet voice by many other means. It's a moderated site and we try in general to keep things from boiling over, into personal attacks or people feeling attacked. It's an imperfect balance and it's understandable if folks are dissatisfied with the way we draw the lines or feel that they'd draw different lines.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:32 PM on November 10, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Are we totally happy to disenfranchise from the site the half of all Americans who supported Trump?

My vote is yeah, I'm happy about that. They fucking won and they don't need to come here and be happy about it; they can go elsewhere and be happy about it. Not getting to say something on a site that is not yours is not disenfranchisment for cryin' out loud.
posted by rtha at 12:39 PM on November 10, 2016


That it's not literally disenfranchisement by a legal definition is neither here nor there. I think you know what I mean. Like I said, I get that the moderating priority is preventing threads from devolving into a fight, and also that there are other places people can go to have their voice heard.

But if the de facto ruling as a result is that ~50% of the U.S. population is unwelcome to unconfrontationally express their political beliefs in threads created for the purpose of discussing U.S. politics makes me question my understanding of what Metafilter is. I would hope that the general rule would be that the dissenting opinion would be able to stand and that those who in turn made a fight out of it would be the ones to have their comments deleted.

And yes, they won. But let's not pretend for a second that anyone would have had a problem with three thousand comments of celebration and backpatting if Clinton had won.
posted by 256 at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2016


While we're here, I hope we're allowed to continue discussing mistakes that Hillary and/or the Democratic Party may or may not have made during the primaries and the campaign.

As far as I know nothing along those lines has been deleted, and I appreciate that. The act of just talking about it (I am not referring to disagreement) seems to be a bit controversial so I wanted to put in my two cents.
posted by lalex at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2016


> But if the de facto ruling as a result is that ~50% of the U.S. population is unwelcome

50% of the US population is not going to come here to express any opinion at all, so acting like this is a thing to take seriously is absurd. You've been here long enough to know what the general political and social leanings of this place are, and what moderation policies are like, so further hand-wringing and use of terms like "disenfranchisement" to refer to deleted comments on a fucking website in the aftermath of an election with actual, documented instances voter disenfranchisment and then further dismiss your own use of the term as "neither here nor there" is bullshit.
posted by rtha at 2:00 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


These last few comments are a depressing example of why a lot of people feel that MeFi (or, at the very least, certain parts of MeFi) is not for them.

As someone who is not an establishment Democrat, that's been my feeling regarding any political discussion here, for quite a while now. I have never participated much, if at all, and now I don't even read it. There are things I am not welcome to say, no matter how respectfully I say them.

I understand the moderating decision completely and if I were a moderator I would do the same. "Free speech" (and I use those air quotes purposefully) is all fine and good but we don't need a moderation nightmare.

You've been here long enough to know what the general political and social leanings of this place are

True, and yet there has been a constant dogged insistence over the years that there are no such leanings. See: every "echo chamber" discussion that's popped up. As a reader of MeFi for over a decade, and a member for several years, I'd submit that over time, these leanings have become more pointed, and the discussion surrounding these leanings has become less respectful and more emotional. Of course, election season just accentuates all that.

By the way, I'm not a Trump supporter, for what little it's worth. Quite the opposite.
posted by Old Man McKay at 3:21 PM on November 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


But if the de facto ruling as a result is that ~50% of the U.S. population is unwelcome to unconfrontationally express their political beliefs in threads created for the purpose of discussing U.S. politics makes me question my understanding of what Metafilter is.

I think it's very difficult to make a convincing argument that, in that moment and in the context of the prevailing feeling on the site, cheering Trump's win is unconfrontational. I understand your more general point, and while I have strong feelings about the distinction between notional work-a-day political disagreement and the more specific case of this particular election I get why you'd want to bring it up.

But we're talking about a pretty specific context that more closely resembles popping in to say "I think fire is great!" when folks are watching an apartment complex burn down than it does just voicing an abstract contrary opinion. This isn't really a great lens to examine the issue through, basically.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:47 PM on November 10, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump is a particularly extreme case. I like to think that if we were looking at an "ordinary" Republican victory — a Jeb! or Cruz or Rubio, who ran a campaign with no more than the usual Republican dogwhistles and calls for a return to "traditional values," then corresponding statements in support of the winner would be allowed to stand. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but I like to think that.

I try to be a charitable person. If we were dealing with a Rubio win, and someone told me they were a Rubio supporter, I would grant them the benefit of the doubt, and not automatically assume they were racist or sexist.

Trump is a different case. His campaign has been so openly racist and sexist that it is impossible to ignore, impossible to believe that anyone with half a brain would not see it. (Note: I focus on racism and sexism here, not because these are the only two types of offensive statements to come out of Trump's mouth, but because these two seem by far the most common.) If someone tells me they are a Trump supporter, I find it impossible to give them the benefit of the doubt that I might give to a Cruz supporter; I assume that they are a racist and a sexist. I don't necessarily believe that all Trump supporters are racist and sexist, but I believe most are, and if an individual Trump supporter wants me to believe they are not racist or sexist, they will have to convince me of that; I will not automatically grant them that assumption.

Why is that important in this discussion? MetaFilter has long had the policy of deleting offensive comments. MetaFilter goes even further than many web forums; even ironically racist or sexist comments will be deleted here, while those might stand on other forums that otherwise prohibit offensive statements. That is what we, as a community, have decided we want to be. It's true, it is not for everyone; MetaFilter is not for people who want to openly express sexist statements, and it is also not for people who want to mock racists by making ironically racist statements.

Trump's campaign has relied so heavily on blatantly racist and sexist proclamations and behaviors that I think there is a case to be made that "Yay, Trump wins!" with no further explanation merits deletion as a racist and sexist statement.

I like to think that "Yay, Trump wins! [non-offensive reason why commenter is pleased to see that]" would be allowed to stand. To take a concrete example, "I am pleased to see Trump win, because he has promised to bring jobs back to the rust belt and I believe he can do so." Make no mistake, such a statement would draw many attacks here on MetaFilter, particularly in questioning the notion that Trump has the ability to bring those jobs back. But I like to think that statement would not be deleted. I'm not a mod, and perhaps I'm wrong about that; if I am I would be disappointed to learn so.

tl;dr: "Yay, Trump wins!" alone is rightly deleted as a racist and sexist statement. A more nuanced statement in support of Trump might not be, I hope.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:46 PM on November 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


I believe it is also the blinkers of white male privilege, especially those nearing retirement age, that causes them to be oblivious to whom they are speaking to and about what. And old friend from chicago, who fits this description and worked for the feds wrote me about how nice he thinks Trump is and completely misunderstood. I wrote back saying yes, I hear you, but from my WoC point of view I do not know how to swallow the rest of the garbage. He didn't reply back.
posted by infini at 1:51 AM on November 11, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have a very few contacts on Facebook. These are family, really old friends, some newer friends, and internet friends, who are also very old internet friends. But, when stuff regarding Trump shows up in my feed, and I keep that minimal, especially if some friend, shares some buck up crybabies bullshit, or rationalization about how the election is over, and we need to move on. I go to the individual's site, and I post, "Hooray, now get on out there and grab some pussy, pussy, pussy. Tell those whiny bitches to shut up. Kick those Mexicans out and build that wall, deport those Muslims, and put those Blacks back in the ghettos or plantations where they belong; and wrap yourself up in the flag while you do it!" Then I back out, unfriend whoever was stupid enough to share some apologist crap like that, the other person, I just block, I back out and vanish. I am that angry, and I do not want to see stupid Nazi trash in my news feeds. I don't care how it turns out for my social media use, because I feel that social media was used to elect Trump and espouse all those memes. I came out of my burrow for parts of the Obama administration because it was so unprecedented, in many ways, and it was a delight to watch what looked like positive change, both in me and my country. Now this is not my country. I live here, but something truly awful has happened and this has happened before with Reagan and the GW Bush war atrocities, and robbery of the people of the US and the world. I can't watch it anymore. If, in order to see my kids on social media, I run across bigotry and run of the mill stupidity, I am going to winnow it down until there is a minimum left, no problem, what is the need for toxic pop culture? None.
posted by Oyéah at 11:17 AM on November 11, 2016 [2 favorites]


I believe it is also the blinkers of white male privilege, especially those nearing retirement age, that causes them to be oblivious to whom they are speaking to and about what.

I beg to differ, ageist sprout.
posted by y2karl at 12:13 PM on November 11, 2016 [1 favorite]


*peers over trifocals*
*shoves hearing trumpet into ear*

Wha...?
posted by infini at 12:27 PM on November 11, 2016


We'll see how it plays out short term, beyond that I don't have any specific predictions. This is a very weird and difficult moment on the site and for the moment we're as a mod staff mostly just trying to keep up with last night and this morning. But as far as that goes I definitely don't want a long-term grief response to be flooding the front page with US election/politics stories, yeah; some sort of method of keeping that in check while still letting people discuss that stuff will be important, however specifically we navigate it.

While I understand why the semi-formal election threads were still in place immediately following the election, I would like to register my own disagreement with keeping that policy in place indefinitely. The weekly election threads served a purpose while the campaign was at its peak, but I feel like MetaFilter is at its best when people are discussing a specific topic and responding to specific links and the quality of the discussion suffers considerably when it loses both of those things and becomes Political Chatfilter, which is often how the election threads went and will presumably go as long as they keep being posted in this form. People are still using those threads to cope and react and that's a good and understandable thing, but I would be a little disappointed if all discussion of US politics is going to be corralled into a series of giant, mod-approved threads for the foreseeable future.
posted by Copronymus at 10:13 AM on November 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


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