Proclaiming that a thread is doomed is poor form.

April 29, 2003 1:12 AM

meta-opinions about the future of a thread are pointless, and are usually an attempt to lead the thread to premature death. Don't try to pre-judge the outcome of any particular conversation. Either the thread will or will not self-destruct, and may take a direction different from the one envisaged by any of its contributors. Godwin's law has many variants; is there a need for a metafiltrian distillation of it? Has it already been done?
posted by cbrody to etiquette/policy at 1:12 AM (49 comments total)

Just to point out, I agree with madamjujujive and Slithy_Tove.

But not their right to say it.
posted by cbrody at 1:18 AM on April 29, 2003

So you will defend to the death what I say, but disagree with my right to say it? Well, that's different.

Anyway, I disagree. The meme is old, the political battle lines are drawn, no minds will be changed and no enlightenment will be found through this thread. It's IraqFilter, 911Filter, BushFilter, PeaceFilter, you're wrong, no you're wrong.

A genuinely new item, about any of these, might cause people to think differently. But this is not a new item, it's an e-mail meme that's been around for a year-and-a-half. This thread is not destined for greatness, it's destined for 20 to 100 posts of get your own weblog fuckwit.

I don't really blame tbc; I found it only because I remembered it being on MeFi before, and my first couple of searches for it failed. But the thread's doomed.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 2:45 AM on April 29, 2003

The thread has not devolved as predicted, but as Slithy_Tove points out, it is not a new or fascinating link that others have not seen and that might warrant (further) discussion.
posted by hama7 at 3:24 AM on April 29, 2003

This MeTa thread will devolve into self-referential lunacy and end with a string of off-topic attempts at wit. ;-P
posted by mischief at 4:49 AM on April 29, 2003

Surprisingly, hama7 dislikes a link that makes war supporters look stupid.

A widespread letter that calls for violence against peace activists (even if they're "joking") is post-worthy, IMO.
posted by jpoulos at 5:21 AM on April 29, 2003

Surprisingly, hama7 dislikes a link that makes war supporters look stupid.

I agree completely with the contents and sentiments of the link, but I don't think it's a good MeatFilter post.

Let's not be petty.
posted by hama7 at 5:26 AM on April 29, 2003

MeatFlilter, MetaFilter, six of one...
posted by hama7 at 5:28 AM on April 29, 2003

hama7, I can recommend a good therapist ;-)

I propose VeggieFilter instead.
posted by cbrody at 5:53 AM on April 29, 2003

This thread will end up sucking.
posted by Shane at 6:25 AM on April 29, 2003

Shane will end up using the small tag at some point in this thread.
posted by iconomy at 6:36 AM on April 29, 2003

D'oh!
posted by Shane at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2003

quonsar will end up making an obnoxious snark at some point in this thread. which shane will end up referencing in small font at some point in this thread.
posted by quonsar at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2003

Snark attack!

Okay, this is getting silly. "This thread will suck" wasn't meant to be a self-fulfilling prophecy ; )
posted by Shane at 6:44 AM on April 29, 2003

Fometing dissension between pro and anti war folks is so early April.
Guilty as charged. I throw myself to the mercy of the court.
posted by madamjujujive at 6:54 AM on April 29, 2003

someone will end up using the tagline:

metafilter: this thread will suck
posted by angry modem at 7:37 AM on April 29, 2003

"[M]eta-opinions about the future of a thread ... are usually an attempt to lead the thread to premature death."

Yes. I thought that was kind of the point in a self-policing community. We MeFites have a responsibility to engender good, open-minded discussion about new and interesting links, but when the link is stale and overworn, we have a concomitant responsibility to close up shop on the post and move on. This, I believe, was one of those instances.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:50 AM on April 29, 2003

but when the link is stale and overworn, we have a concomitant responsibility to close up shop on the post and move on.

And that's exactly what didn't happen^*. You(plural, ie: all users) do not have the power or responsibility of directly closing the thread down, either by pressing the smite button or deflecting the proposed discussion, only not participating. If you don't think the thread deserves to exist, say so with something quantifiable, and point your complaint at the MeTa thread you started with which to further explain. From my observation, the preference has actually gone towards not even saying anything in the original thread itself other than just a "MetaTalk" link, so as to minimize the disruption for those who actually want to continue beating said particular dead horse. If the thread is to die, Matt kills it.
Prophesying about the thread's future is — literally — MetaTalk, and pretty much tantamount to a derailing attempt, as it often results in a bunch of people defending the post rather than saying anything about it.

^* Funny enough, everybody in the thread moved on from MmeJ and Slithy's not doing so, and proved them wrong.
posted by Su at 8:17 AM on April 29, 2003

A widespread letter that calls for violence against peace activists (even if they're "joking") is post-worthy, IMO.

No it's not, IMO.
posted by timeistight at 8:33 AM on April 29, 2003

If it's that widespread of a letter (which it is--I've seen it all over the place, and well-meaning but ill-informed relatives frequently copy me on it), then it doesn't belong on Metafilter at all, no matter what the subject matter.

And believe me, if my aunts have a hold of this letter, it is nothing new under the sun--they're the sort who still copy me on e-mails so they can get their gift certificates from the Gap and their $5 from Microsoft.

So, by the strictest definition of posting guidelines, this letter doesn't make the cut. I don't care who has something clever to say about it.
posted by padraigin at 8:49 AM on April 29, 2003

Well said, Su.

Monju-bosatsu, I disagree entirely. Self-policing, yes, but MeFi is an ever-changing group of people, some who choose to jump into threads that others may have previously beaten to death.

If you find a thread boring, move on. Personally, I found the enusing discussion of game theory interesting, even if nothing ground-breaking has come out of it.

padraigin, old meme it may be, but I hadn't seen it. What does that make me? Unworthy, I guess.
posted by cbrody at 8:56 AM on April 29, 2003

No, Su, except for the game-theory post, the thread still sucks.

Look, I consider MeTa big guns. To me, going to MeTa is a very hostile move, and I have done it rarely. In any event, pointing out double posts is canonically done in the thread itself, which was the main point of my post.

but i'm not dissing madamjujujive, her still, small wail of despair at yet another left vs. right flamefest was heartfelt and appropriate.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 9:00 AM on April 29, 2003

old meme it may be, but I hadn't seen it. What does that make me? Unworthy, I guess.

Lucky, I'd say. I thought about it, and I'd say I received it no less than four times from different people.

But my family are pretty staunch in their narrow-minded Republicanness, and also I grew up in Arizona, so basically, it's my lot in life to get this sort of thing forwarded to me on a constant basis. Hoo-rah.
posted by padraigin at 9:03 AM on April 29, 2003

padraigin, I feel for you. My own family is staunch in its open-minded Labour/Liberal/Democratness, so what I get forwarded is usually from a slightly different perspective. Isn't life unfair?
posted by cbrody at 9:26 AM on April 29, 2003

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal, anyone?
posted by ParisParamus at 9:29 AM on April 29, 2003

Sorry, I really need to learn how to control myself. (Freaky)
posted by bunktone at 9:31 AM on April 29, 2003

PP, is that when you're not sure who's running your school? </snark>
posted by cbrody at 9:41 AM on April 29, 2003

cbrody, you lucky bastard, you have no idea. But if you like, I can forward you the next "sign this petition to keep 'Under God' in the Pledge" that I get (probably today). Even the fairness of life a bit.

Sorry to veer off topic.
posted by padraigin at 9:43 AM on April 29, 2003

No, Su, except for the game-theory post, the thread still sucks.

Then please use words more in line with the opinion you are expressing. "No good can come of X" is widely understood to imply not that a thing is boring/old, but that it will result in something negative. This is independent of the post sucking(in your opinion).

So, nothing good came of the thread, except for that one good thing. Am I following you correctly?

Also, please notice and keep in mind that I could care less about this post and whether it did or will suck. I'm addressing what you did, which I've explained is an improper action.

Look, I consider MeTa big guns. To me, going to MeTa is a very hostile move[...]pointing out double posts is canonically done in the thread itself,

MeTa is not big guns. It's a tool, one of whose purposes is discussion of threads. If you don't consider your complaint worthy of posting here, then you might consider the possibility it's just not worthy of posting at all.
So rather than be honestly hostile, a passive aggressive attempt at derailing an already existing post rather than say...trying to improve it or at least wither on its own is fine? Further, pointing out a double post is generally done by...calling it a double post(!), making it much easier for Matt to find, not linking two-year old references. There are plenty of posts that bring previously-mentioned URLs into the light for their own discussion. In these cases, people commonly mention it's come up before for purposes of cross-referencing, not removal. While direct double posts of main topics are discouraged, expecting anything that's been brought up before, ever, to not be discussed again is a bit much.
posted by Su at 9:57 AM on April 29, 2003

Look, I consider MeTa big guns. To me, going to MeTa is a very hostile move

interesting, the shit people make up about this website. in fact, most of this website's "problems" seem to be rooted in the shit people make up about it.

not directed at slithey_tove, i'm just saying...
"it's a current events discussion!"
"no, it's a best of the web!"
"no, it's a best of the web and only *i* determine what is best, what the hell is wrong with you people?"
"no, it's a best of the web but only if it was already on the web when you found it!"
"no, it USED to be something special, until [_insert_hated_name_or_event_] ruined it"
"no, it's a best of current events discussion board, except for iraq, bush, IP, vibrating broom toys, ponies and pancakes"!
"no, it's like fark for stuck-up people!"
posted by quonsar at 9:59 AM on April 29, 2003

oooo! look! i got this .jpg in email! it's sooooooo funny! bush and cheney, only they are really beavis and butthead! this will make a great metafilter thread!

entropy. it's not just for physics anymore.
posted by quonsar at 10:03 AM on April 29, 2003

Strange, the MeFi post was much more interesting than this one.

Probably something to do with Shane.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 10:07 AM on April 29, 2003

Well now it's gone, and I never did find out whether Jane Fonda was in Vancouver or not.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:15 AM on April 29, 2003

And this thread's spiral into irrelevancy confirms my opinion that stuff should not be brought to MeTa except for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Su, dry up, you're wrong. Your anger with me and desire to be proven right are corrupting your reason.

quonsar, it's a goddamn postmodern world, ain't it? Texts have no fixed meaning, no shit.

padraigin, I volunteer to send you all the 'Send a bag of pretzels to Dubya' stuff I get from my liberal friends. No, I don't want the '50 murders Clinton committed' that your relatives send you, in return. Really, I don't.

P.S., the thread, now exclusively available at lofi.mefi, still sucks.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 10:16 AM on April 29, 2003

cbrody, just so you know, the nigerian guy who will be sending you an email asking for your help in moving all that money is just looking to rob you.

Oh, and there's no such thing as the Good Times virus.
posted by crunchland at 10:40 AM on April 29, 2003

My anger?
posted by Su at 10:56 AM on April 29, 2003

Nothing good can come of this thread.

P.S., the thread, now exclusively available at lofi.mefi, still sucks.

"This post was deleted for the following reason: posted previously"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

oh, and what the fuck does 'postmodern' mean? i distrust people who use assinine buzzwords rather than say what they mean. postmodern, my ass. modern would be now. post modern would be, what, tomorrow? it's a tomorrow world? sounds like a disney attraction.
posted by quonsar at 11:18 AM on April 29, 2003

crunch: what, are you in on it too? I really hope your cut isn't taken out of the $3.5m he's promised me, as I've already spent most of it in advance. I'm of to Lagos tomorrow to pick up the rest, and he's guaranteed that it will be in US dollars this time, not Sudanese dinars. Must have been a mistranslation - the first transaction was a bit of a disaster. Know any good casinos there? I can highly recommend Lagos: the people there are so warm and friendly, and always seem to be laughing.

IMO this thread sucks far worse than the original, deleted one. This thread has been making the rounds for a long, long time. No good can come of this thread.

aargh!!

*expires, like this thread, of sarcasm overdose*
posted by cbrody at 11:43 AM on April 29, 2003

ps MeTa is not "big guns", it's just a bleeding parrot discussion forum for those extra-nerdy nerds who find MeFi, well, just not meta enough.

Present company excepted of course.
posted by cbrody at 11:53 AM on April 29, 2003

cbrody, THIS is a bleeding discussion forum. In a foreign language, for extra credit.
posted by iconomy at 12:28 PM on April 29, 2003

It is now that I see the irony of my own comment.
*looks at the cards he holds in his hand, picks one, plays: C *
posted by MzB at 1:26 PM on April 29, 2003

ps MeTa is not "big guns", it's just a bleeding parrot discussion forum for those extra-nerdy nerds who find MeFi, well, just not meta enough.

No! NO! It's not true! Take it back! TAKE IT BACK!
posted by angry modem at 3:08 PM on April 29, 2003

a bleeding parrot discussion forum

For the love of God and all that is holy...

MY PARROT IS BLEEDING!
posted by inpHilltr8r at 3:35 PM on April 29, 2003

I thought the parrot had joined the choir invisible.
posted by konolia at 6:28 PM on April 29, 2003

Oh no! Not the comfy Python sketch!
posted by inpHilltr8r at 7:07 PM on April 29, 2003

www.3236.org, anybody?
posted by ashbury at 8:28 PM on April 29, 2003

I protest. It's obvious there's an anti-Bush sentiment at MeFi. But now I question whether there's room for dissent here.
posted by tbc at 9:53 AM on April 30, 2003

Good lord. First, your post was nothing new, and you say so yourself: Dick Sinott "is one of many re-posters of the Internet chain letter that offers advice for how those who support President Bush should deal with war protesters." Second, it was was a repost; the chain e-mail was originally posted in October 2001.

Posting this is like saying we can all post "Cat-Scan" again, as long as we post another bloggers link to it. I think your protest is very poor form.
posted by onlyconnect at 11:07 AM on April 30, 2003

Wouldn't it be lovely if politics – all politics – were censored here?
posted by timeistight at 11:13 AM on April 30, 2003

I followed the link referred to by onlyconnect and aonifer (K5). If I had found it, I would have simply linked to Sinnott in a comment to that thread instead of starting a new one. I withdraw my protest.
posted by tbc at 10:50 PM on April 30, 2003