Truly over the deep end, again
June 11, 2003 2:26 PM Subscribe

The Jesse Helms has walked off the plank. This wouldn't be the first time.
posted by the fire you left me to etiquette/policy at 2:26 PM (120 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Advertise here: Contact FM.

I just saw that and was surprised that the mefi v. LGF pissing match was still going. In the past I've been tempted to post there. It's much like the childhood instinct to poke sticks into holes just to see what comes out. I would advise everyone to resist the urge to tease and troll another online community. It's only going to cause more trouble in the future and will not benefit either site. If you hate LGF, don't read it, or if you must read it and must comment, use a different nic and try not to associate yourself with mefi.
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:32 PM on June 11, 2003

Also, try not to post LGF links on MetaTalk. It interrupts the right-wing nutjob borg jackoff and makes them cranky.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:44 PM on June 11, 2003

If you read the privious thread all is explained, pointing back may not be productive for both sides at this point.
(on preview elwoodwiles covers it well)
posted by thomcatspike at 2:45 PM on June 11, 2003

elwoodwiles:

Right on. I could care less what someone else thinks about me or a community of which I am a part, but I do care if the flames are fanned such that a small minority -- on either side -- will be compelled to do somethind really nasty.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 2:45 PM on June 11, 2003

sometimes you just have to stop.
posted by madamjujujive at 2:56 PM on June 11, 2003

He waxes inane at MeFi, and trolls at LGF.

Surprised?
posted by dhoyt at 3:16 PM on June 11, 2003

Please. No more links there. It's a goddamn trainwreck. "[Y]ou wouldn't by chance live in Seattle" Sometimes I can't stand the liberal slant of MetaFilter, but no more. I need a backrub from fold_and_mutilate to balance this out. That and a long shower. Maybe some isopropyl alcohol. Lava soap. Steel wool. Gojo. Oh, fer Chrissakes I feel so dirty.
posted by yerfatma at 3:20 PM on June 11, 2003

What I want to know is what the fuck crawled up jtm's ass and died? Basically no comments for three years, and then stream of taunts and abuse.

What gives? Is it even the same person?
posted by NortonDC at 3:23 PM on June 11, 2003

Childish. I banned the account here.
posted by mathowie at 3:30 PM on June 11, 2003

Oh, shit. I can't help but feel partly responsible for this on-going train wreck, being one of those unable to resist posting a comment attacking LGF, both here and on my own site, with the only result being a wildly out-of-context quoting of my comment on LGF (I think I got off lightly) . I am, sadly, not surprised that this is still going on and hope that both sides can take a step back and try to remember that this argument started over clothing that both communities agreed was in poor taste.

mathowie - you banned The Jesse Helms or jtm?
posted by dg at 3:51 PM on June 11, 2003

Control the hyperbole, leftists!
posted by PrinceValium at 3:55 PM on June 11, 2003

what do little green assholes play with at recess?
posted by quonsar at 4:05 PM on June 11, 2003

*resists the urge to answer*
posted by dg at 4:09 PM on June 11, 2003

whoha.. jtm is of the four digit generation.. what happened to him/her? *note to self, keep password well hidden*
posted by dabitch at 4:59 PM on June 11, 2003

I believe I understand leftists. They think too much with emotion; reason and logic are hard to come by amongst the left.

Not to continue this pointless exercise, but Jesus I've seen this almost exact wording at least 4 times in the last two weeks in various flamewars on a couple of different sites (yes I'm a bit of a voyeur in that respect). It's creepy how similar the right-ey arguments are.. do they have some kind of playbook they all use that I haven't found yet? Has anyone else noticed this?

(leaving aside that that line is obvious BS, and akin to the 'big lie theory'. I don't even want to dignify it's plausibility by tearing it apart.)
posted by Space Coyote at 5:03 PM on June 11, 2003

dg, doesn't matter -- Charles is so wracked with insecurity that MetaFilter merely needs its leaves ruffled by the wind for him to start a thread about what we're doing over here to slander him. Even if it's just sort of wondering why he cares so much.
posted by dhartung at 5:03 PM on June 11, 2003

mathowie - you banned The Jesse Helms or jtm?

Both. Now hopefully people can mellow out and go back to links to interesting things on the web.
posted by mathowie at 5:11 PM on June 11, 2003

It's creepy how similar the right-ey arguments are.. do they have some kind of playbook they all use that I haven't found yet? Has anyone else noticed this?

Space Coyote- yes, it's called astroturf. It has its own website.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:13 PM on June 11, 2003

Now hopefully people can mellow out and go back to links to interesting things on the web.
Sounds like an excellent plan to me.
posted by dg at 5:27 PM on June 11, 2003

I'm confused... TJH is marginally annoying, yes, but what did he do to warrant banning?
posted by PrinceValium at 5:31 PM on June 11, 2003

What PrinceValium said... he was banned for what he said on a different web site?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:35 PM on June 11, 2003

he was banned for what he said on a different web site?

Yeah. Trolling another site and dragging out a pissing match between two sites that I've asked people to stop is worthy of banning.
posted by mathowie at 5:45 PM on June 11, 2003

Wow! And yet contacting a fellow mefite's employer and trying to get them in trouble because you misunderstood their politics is only worthy of a slap on the wrist? The gods are capricious...
posted by jonson at 6:43 PM on June 11, 2003

matt, you deserve a metaStar behold my wrath unbelievers!

for stamping the fire out on this mess so quickly.
posted by poopy at 6:47 PM on June 11, 2003

The gods are capricious...
posted by Space Coyote at 6:54 PM on June 11, 2003

High time we made a stand and shook up the views of the common man
And the lovetrain rides from coast to coast
D.J.'s the man we love the most
Could you be, could you be squeaky clean
And smash any hope of democracry ?
As the headline says you're free to choose
There's egg on your face and mud on your shoes
One of these days they're gonna call it the blues
And anything is possible when you're Sowing the Seeds of Love
Anything is possible - Sowing the Seeds of Love
I spy tears in thier eyes
They look to the skies for some kind of divine intervention
Food goes to waste !
So nice to eat, so nice to taste
Politician Grannie with your high ideals
Have you no idea how the Majority feels ?
So without love and a promise land
We're fools to the rules of a Goverment plan
Kick out the style ! Bring back the jam !
Anything...
Sowing the Seeds
The birds and the bees
My girlfriend and me in love
Feel the pain
Talk about it
If you're a worried man - then shout about it
Open hearts - feel about it
Open minds - think about it
Everyone - read about it
Everyone - scream about it !
Everyone
Everyone - read about it, read about it
Read in the books in the crannies and the nooks there are books to read
Chorus !
(Mr. England Sowing the Seeds of Love)
Time to eat all your words
Swallow your pride
Open your eyes
High time we made a stand and shook up the views of the common man
And the lovetrain rides from coast to coast
Every minute of every hour - " I Love a Sunflower "
And I believe in lovepower, Love power, LOVEPOWER !!!
Sowing the Seeds
An end to need
And the Politics of Greed
With love

-(Orzabal/Holland)
posted by Witty at 6:58 PM on June 11, 2003

Both. Now hopefully people can mellow out and go back to links to interesting things on the web.

There are no interesting things left on the web. What remains is for us to annoy the shit ouit of eachother by pretending our opinions mean shit to a tree. Go out and get laid you simple fucks.
posted by jonmc at 7:25 PM on June 11, 2003

jonson, you may say whatever you like and accuse me of anything you want regardless of it being explained how it was not the case, but the issue between myself and jeddings has already been resolved and you have no need to bring it up here, or in any other matter unrelated to it.

I would hope you choose not to continue referencing this in other threads. Unlike you, the people actually involved in this incident have settled their issues and have no desire to dwell on it, or for that matter link to it in their user page.

On preview: Metafilter: go out and get laid, you simple fucks. Brilliant, jonmc.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:34 PM on June 11, 2003

What makes you think I was talking about you?
posted by jonson at 7:49 PM on June 11, 2003

Do you want me to seduce you?
posted by NortonDC at 7:57 PM on June 11, 2003

Yes. Then I can get laid like jonmc told me to.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:01 PM on June 11, 2003

Without starting a whole deal here, I just want to say that the more I see other online communities, the more I respect Metafilter.
posted by Hildago at 8:44 PM on June 11, 2003

Go out and get laid you simple fucks.

Not to make any assumptions, of course, but if anyone here sounds like they need a good roto-rooting, I'd say it's you, jonny-boy!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:07 PM on June 11, 2003

Go out and get laid you simple fucks.

I'd like to submit that jonmc has been kicking ass and taking names lately. If I were in your neck of the woods, I'd buy you a Guinness.
posted by dhoyt at 9:08 PM on June 11, 2003

"need a good roto-rooting?"
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:19 PM on June 11, 2003

I just want to say that the more I see other online communities, the more I respect Metafilter.

The more I see of Metatalk the less I respect Metafilter.
posted by Mick at 10:06 PM on June 11, 2003

I'm in a funny position here. I love MetaFilter, I like and enjoy reading LGF and, truth be told, I don't much like The Jesse Helms.

But banning TJH because of his behaviour on another website, where he was merely expressing an opinion in what he considered enemy territory - and was well dealt with by Charles and the others - seems sinister. Are we now to start monitoring each other's activities on other online fora? Talk about Big Brother!

Are we now forbidden to express controversial but legitimate opinions, under the handles we use here, on other community weblogs, lest we get banned? Wasn't TJH merely speaking as an individual? Should he have hidden under an alias? He wasn't speaking for MetaFilter or even trying to represent the community's position. Although - let's be honest - his opinion of LGF is fairly representative of quite a few people here.

Please reconsider, Matt. It's posters like TJH, with little support here, that most deserve your support. He's an honest individual who stands by his principles and was quite understandably outraged by what he took to be LGF's agenda. At least he should be given a second chance.

This week there's been a decidedly unpleasant, gutter flavour of stool pigeons and rats on MetaFilter. Ugh!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:36 PM on June 11, 2003

it was a dark and stormy night. a decidedly unpleasant, gutter flavour of stool pigeons and rats permeated the air.
posted by quonsar at 10:48 PM on June 11, 2003

Before you post, remember the LGF prayer:
Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Excellent advice.
posted by homunculus at 12:07 AM on June 12, 2003

Are we now forbidden to express controversial but legitimate opinions, under the handles we use here, on other community weblogs, lest we get banned?

Interesting question, particularly since I use "mischief" or a variant on at least 2 dozen other sites.
posted by mischief at 1:14 AM on June 12, 2003

From the LGF discussion:

"Yep, when I think of the words "pleasant" and "community" in one sentence, MetaFilter comes to mind."

This makes me laugh, looking back ont he present thread.
posted by kaibutsu at 2:55 AM on June 12, 2003

Are we now forbidden to express controversial but legitimate opinions, under the handles we use here, on other community weblogs, lest we get banned?

My take was you shouldn't burst through the swinging doors of another community and shout, "I'm from MetaFilter. You all suck." Once you make problems for the site by acting as an unelected representative, why shouldn't you be banned?
posted by yerfatma at 4:11 AM on June 12, 2003

I agree with yerfatma; the problem is freelancing on MeFi's behalf. I also agree with Miguel: there's a definite stink around here lately, particularly on MeTa over the last couple of days. Not one of our finer moments.
posted by mcwetboy at 5:06 AM on June 12, 2003

coming soon : metaquest (tm)

"set in a world of politics and fart jokes , you start off a humble newbie and must defeat your enemies with spells like the spell of double posting , gradually working your way up the ladder to become an all powerful mage , wreaking havoc on your enemies with spells like haugheys rim , in which your enemies are thrown out by strange,brown, nose like creatures ...."
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:31 AM on June 12, 2003

Hey Sarge - as you well know, being banned is just a temporary state.
posted by crunchland at 6:01 AM on June 12, 2003

I could understand the logic of a warning and then second-offense banning when someone specifically represents themselves as coming from Metafilter to post insulting comments on another site.

The problem is that members of other communities cannot make comments on Mefi unless they are already registered members, so we have a situation in which mefi members can jump onto another board and say what they please, but the vice is not versa.

Do as you wish, with whatever user name you like - but just don't bring Metafilter into it, especially if it's a rant about the other site. Seriously, who here would not cringe at hearing "We at Metafilter think that....", even if it's only implied?
posted by taz at 6:05 AM on June 12, 2003

shoot.him.now.
posted by crunchland at 9:18 PM PST on January 19

yeah , i know.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:35 AM on June 12, 2003

This week there's been a decidedly unpleasant, gutter flavour of stool pigeons and rats on MetaFilter. Ugh!
you can shut the fuck up now you talentless hack. I have had enough of your marginalia and your juvenile posts. Your a Fuckwit Cardoso, many have told you in one way or another, but your a overeducated idiot and to put your lot in for that asshat Helms just shows you what a slup you are.

but remember Cardoso, i love you and really respect you and your posts, they liven up a bleak world.

and dont e-mail me, don't you ever fucking do that.
posted by clavdivs at 6:49 AM on June 12, 2003

Ummm.......
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:13 AM on June 12, 2003

Uh...heh. clavdivs was being, um, ironic, right? What with the ugliness and obviously intentional phrasings like "your a overeducated idiot"... right? Right???
posted by soyjoy at 7:28 AM on June 12, 2003

clavdivs was being clavdivs. genius.
posted by quonsar at 7:31 AM on June 12, 2003

What is a slup?
posted by jonson at 7:34 AM on June 12, 2003

For chrissake, Miguel, TJH is a jerk who posts links to porn sites with no warning or context. Why do you feel this need to passionately defend asshats? And speaking of asshats...

I'd like to submit that jonmc has been kicking ass and taking names lately.

I'd like to submit that jonmc has been surly and unpleasant beyond the call of duty. Maybe he needs to get laid himself. At any rate, if he finds MeFi and all its denizens so despicable, it's hard to see why he spends so much time here.
posted by languagehat at 7:39 AM on June 12, 2003

Perhaps he's fighting the good fight..
posted by Space Coyote at 7:47 AM on June 12, 2003

...has been surly and unpleasant beyond the call of duty...

Sure. But what I meant is that a scruffy, uneager-to-please-or-coddle worldview is actually pretty refreshing.
That's just me. Maybe it's trolling. Potato/Potatoe.
posted by dhoyt at 8:06 AM on June 12, 2003

Why thank you dhoyt. We're here to voice our opinions. Opinions are not always pleasant. And if I can have a little fun taking the hot air of people while I'm doing it, so much the better.

At any rate, if he finds MeFi and all its denizens so despicable, it's hard to see why he spends so much time here.

I don't depise mefi or anyone in it. I do despise stupidity and arrogance which I'm seeing a lot of lately and I'm well within my rights to say what I think. If that bugs you, I'm sorry. I met you at the meetup and you seemed like a nice enough guy.

But, still nobody seemed to mind when I was just a genial doofus talking about junkfood, but if I happen to venture some unpopular opinions or tastes, I'm evil incarnate. Lovely.
posted by jonmc at 8:12 AM on June 12, 2003

I've changed my mind. What should be done is the earth should be bombed to fucking kingdom come, then all of you fucking idiots can shut the fuck up and the world will be a much better plce.

and from this thread: What remains is for us to annoy the shit ouit of eachother by pretending our opinions mean shit to a tree. Go out and get laid you simple fucks.

Those are hardly "unpopular opinions or tastes" jon. Those are statements befitting a middle school based AOL chat room. If some people challenged your beliefs or opinions and you got offended or something then that's fine. Take the time to either explain yourself (maybe with a link or two?) or tell yourself that they're not worth it and ignore it. Sitting around spewing up curse words and shitting all over the posts resolves nothing and does a lot more negative damage to the "community" and frankly, I'm a bit surprised to see it coming from you.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:23 AM on June 12, 2003

all of you fucking idiots can shut the fuck up and the world will be a much better plce

Physician, heal thyself? Nothing personal jon.
posted by walrus at 8:58 AM on June 12, 2003

I'm a bit disturbed by the banning of The Jesse Helms, for something he posted to a different website. The comment he posted was something I agree with 100%. He mentioned Metafilter, but he never claimed to be speaking on behalf of Metafilter. I can't see how anything that THJ has done has harmed the image of Metafilter at all.
posted by salmacis at 9:16 AM on June 12, 2003

salmacis, I'm with you; I completely agreed with The Jesse Helms' post on LGF, and it certainly wasn't as vitriolic as some of the other posts there by trolls. I also notice that no one on that site even bothered to address the issue of nationalism; par for that course.

I don't think you can speak "on behalf of Metafilter," can you? Given the relative diversity of opinions here, left-leaning to be sure but certainly nowhere near as lockstep as you might find on a site like LGF.
posted by kgasmart at 9:24 AM on June 12, 2003

I agree, I think it was a very poor decision.
The point of banning someone, it seems to me, is to prevent them from posting to Metafilter. This would only be a desirable outcome if the person had repeatedly and knowingly violated Metafilter's guidelines. For all I know, TJH may have done that. I haven't researched his posting history.

But Matt indicated that TJH was banned for "trolling another site and dragging out a pissing match." How exactly does banning TJH from Metafilter remedy the perceived wrong of trolling other websites? TJH posted to this other website as himself. He did not represent himself as Mathowie, any other user, or Metafilter in general.

The only explanation that I can fathom is that he was banned not as prevention for doing harm to this community, but rather as punishment for his representation of Metafilter on another website.

That's a very slippery slope, and one that I find simply disturbing.
posted by PrinceValium at 9:28 AM on June 12, 2003

I'm a little worried about some genius getting the bright idea to assume the identity of a controversial figure like foldy or hama7 and going on a shit-stirring parade on other websites. What would happen then?
posted by furiousthought at 9:34 AM on June 12, 2003

I don't think Matt bans on a whim. I would bet there were a few things going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to.
posted by konolia at 9:43 AM on June 12, 2003

What would happen then?

One would imagine that they would say it was not them. I imagine both of those fellas, and most of us in general would own up to their actions, especially since most of us a not gutless enough to disown our own words. IP addresses are everywhere, and Matt would not have too much trouble tracking down the real poster if they have an account here.

I support Matt's action. Whenever there is trouble, many of us fall all over ourselves to remind him that the place is his, and he runs the show. Now he has acted accordingly.
posted by thirteen at 9:47 AM on June 12, 2003

Take a look at LGF, then think about a mailbox full of missives from those folks. You might have banned him too.
posted by yerfatma at 10:04 AM on June 12, 2003

Take a look at LGF, then think about a mailbox full of missives from those folks. You might have banned him too.

Hell, I might have urged MeFi folks to visit LGF and take up the banner.

But in the end I think thirteen is probably right: This is Matt's house to run as he sees fit. You don't like it, build yer own house.
posted by kgasmart at 10:21 AM on June 12, 2003

clavdivs was being clavdivs. genius.

I'd say 'genivs', actually

about TJH: he made a bad mistake, we don't need pissing matches with LGF, of all communities. I don't like their site in the least, I never link to it, neither here (unless "provoked" in the rare LGF-related MeFi thread, to show how they actually talk to each other) nor in my own site. but I'd never troll on LGF. they're free to enjoy their dances on Rachel Corrie's grave, if they like it so. (I'm surprised that a man of your taste reads LGF, Miguel, but anyway, to each his own I guess)
I think TJH fpp's were, mostly, of good quality. and his comments history shows a consistently liberal pov, the occasional juvenile dig, but no major offenses. and languagehat, it's not that he only linked to pornography, for Chrissakes. The man has shown compassion for the weak, and that usually makes me forgive somebody for the occasional sarcastic dig. He posted a lot of pics? Yeah, and that's wrong. But sometimes the photos spoke eloquently about his pov. we can argue about this thing until we're blue in the face: BUT this is Matt's house, and we are all his guests (some of us may give the occasional dollar for housecleaning after a rowdy party, somebody else may buy a small present for Matt, but it's still his place). so even if MeTa is about navel-gazing, and it's cool to second-guess the coach, it's only Matt's decision to decide who's in and who's out. I wish TJH was still here, but still. Matt's house, not mine.
posted by matteo at 10:25 AM on June 12, 2003

Wow. Remember, everyone, this is just a website.

Say it with me. Just a website.
posted by gramcracker at 11:02 AM on June 12, 2003

gramcracker is right. we should close down metatalk since metafilter, being only a web site, isn't worth talking about.
posted by mcsweetie at 11:43 AM on June 12, 2003

This has been one of those times where I wish I hadn't visited MetaTalk. But I've been bored lately and decided to trawl the waters in here just to see what was up on the relaxed side of MetaFilter.

It's been an eye-opener, at any rate. The first moment of cringe-worthiness occurred in the rather innocuous "demo" thread, when people began calling for the beheadings of other obviously MF members out for a temporary lark. It occurred to me that if there had been non-members utilizing the demo loophole, things might have really been ugly: drive-bys with "mad sk1llz" and "MeFi suXXXXX" rather than "Are we not men?" Immature? Maybe. Funny? I thought so. But there were those, even though they were not personally affected by the "rogue demo contigent," felt it their place to call for their permanent disposal. But that little kerfuffle was nothing compared to the LGF debacle.

What the hell happened there? First of all, the strange rivalry between LGF and MF seems more appropriate to high school football teams than this place. Sure, there are differing opinions at both, which is why there is a place for both. I find what little I've read at LGF to be misinformed, racist, rightist blather, but then, I don't have to read it. Neither do they have to come here, which they shouldn't, since I'm a Marxist, multiculti liberal something-or-other. On the other hand, deleting threads in which they play a relevant part seems dodgy too.

But then there were the personal attacks upon each other. And then a member banned for commenting on another site. Was the seed planted from the banning call in the previous "demo" thread? Who knows? But it does seem odd that there are these sort of random lynch mobs popping up and then disappearing, only to have the actual outcome (banning) manifest in another thread. What is going on with everyone?

Some of this stuff seemed appropriate to air out in the public MeTa forum, but some seemed far more appropriate to be dealt with out of the light through email. For propriety's sake and the illusion of civility, if nothing else. Some of you seem so downright angry and cranky it's as though MeTa has become the petty tyrant's weapon of choice in an otherwise impotent existance.

Perhaps civility is not what MeTa is about at all and I have been living under an illusion for some time. But I thought that this was where we solved the problems that confronted us. Imperfectly, sloppily, and sometimes ineffectually, but sometimes with great success. The jeddings/Xbox resolution, while blood curdling in the making, was the most satisfying resolution to come out of here in days. Everything else has put a bitter taste in my mouth. People just seem to be in a fightin' mood and ready to piss anywhere to start something.

Do I have recommendations? Not really, I guess. If there is only one, then it might be that before you hit the post button, read it over and see if you are inciting public humiliation or beheading rather than constructive criticism about someone else. Maybe there's a thinner line there than we think. I believe some of the behavior in here over the last couple of days has proven it.
posted by readymade at 12:00 PM on June 12, 2003

"he made a bad mistake"

He didn't make a mistake at all. He did something that, after the fact, turned out to be a bannable offense. Now we know the rule, but we didn't before. The new rule:

Do not engage in certain discussions on certain other sites or you might get banned.

It's crystal clear in retrospect, but I don't know how TJH could have known he'd get banned for this ahead of time.
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:05 PM on June 12, 2003

Do not engage in certain discussions on certain other sites or you might get banned.

[godfather]

Don't ever let anyone outside the family know what your thinkin'

[/gf]
posted by jonmc at 12:10 PM on June 12, 2003

You people are missing a very crucial point: this isn't a democracy, it's a website. More specifically, it's Matt's website. Whether or not you think the banning was fair, the fact remains that your opinion is irrelevant.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:34 PM on June 12, 2003

This too shall pass. The only thing I'm really surprised about was that Matt actually went to the LGF site (which I'd not heard of, actually, before this imbroglio) to deal with the situation. IMHO this could have been better dealt with if all parties had just ignored each other.

In retrospect, I agree with my brother thirteen and others who say that as Matt's house he may do as he sees fit; no one ever said this was a democracy or that free speech was the idea. MeFi exists to glean neat links and if more interesting stuff happens in the comments that is bonus.

Relax.
posted by norm at 12:41 PM on June 12, 2003

gleaned neat link
directed at no one in particular... it's just funny and useful
posted by Witty at 12:52 PM on June 12, 2003

jonmc: You seemed like a nice guy, too, and I've generally enjoyed your comments here. That's why I've been surprised to see the increasing unrelieved hostility you've been emitting lately. Of course it's your right to say whatever you like, and apparently you think you're just having a little fun "taking the hot air of people"; all I can say is that's not how it comes across to me or, apparently, others. You seem bitter as hell. If I'm wrong, good, and I'll buy you and your monkey a drink at the next meetup.
posted by languagehat at 12:58 PM on June 12, 2003

I'll second that, jonmc. I guess I'm piling on the bandwagon here, but I guess I'm wondering if there's something in particular going on in your life that's - shortened your fuse, in lack of a better expression. Hope all is well w/you.
posted by widdershins at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2003

Whether or not you think the banning was fair, the fact remains that your opinion is irrelevant.

Our opinion is obviously relevant, because MetaTalk exists. It simply isn't binding. There is quite a difference between that and irrelevant though.
posted by Space Coyote at 1:23 PM on June 12, 2003

Our opinion is obviously relevant, because MetaTalk exists.

Discuss all you want, but I've yet to see Matt give any credence to comments posted here. Hence my statement of "irrelevance". Sorry, that' just my perspective on the matter.

So far all I've seen MeTa profilerate is Miguel's post count, arguments about thread deletions, and CF / cookie-deletion-related bug reports. If I missed anything, I'm all ... eyes.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:46 PM on June 12, 2003

Note: by "comments posted here", I am referring to this specific thread.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2003

It's creepy how similar the right-ey arguments are.. do they have some kind of playbook they all use that I haven't found yet?

Sorry I'm late on this, but is it any wonder that they used to be called "dittoheads?" Now they quote O'Reiley and Savage as well as Limbaugh and the other uber-right shock jocks.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:17 PM on June 12, 2003

LFG just reacts in the same manner plenty of MeFi'ers do, just on the other side of the issue.

*yawn*
posted by xmutex at 2:29 PM on June 12, 2003

You seem bitter as hell.

Frankly, I think anyone who has been around here long enough to have a number in the double digits (or, more importantly, the single digits) has definitely earned a right to be as crotchety as they care to be.
posted by crunchland at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2003

I've yet to see Matt give any credence to comments posted here

Really? Wonder why I banned your account long ago? Because people asked for it.
posted by mathowie at 2:42 PM on June 12, 2003

You banned my account?
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:46 PM on June 12, 2003

You banned my account?

Actually, I think you're right, I got it mixed up with someone that had a similar username, but I use MetaTalk extensively to get feedback.
posted by mathowie at 2:57 PM on June 12, 2003

Can we ban that matthowie guy?

That loud-mouth. Acts like he owns the joint.
posted by xmutex at 3:00 PM on June 12, 2003

Actually, I think you're right, I got it mixed up with someone that had a similar username

I think Johnny Dark had a time out once upon a time.
posted by thirteen at 3:17 PM on June 12, 2003

if the person had repeatedly and knowingly violated Metafilter's guidelines
I figured that this was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as The Jesse Helms is concerned. He has been carpeted a couple of times for stupid in-line images and inappropriate links in the past. In this case, mathowie quite clearly asked that the whole thing be dropped and, after a bit of a lag (sometimes it takes a bit of time to damp the fires down), most did so. The Jesse Helms went out of his way to stoke the fires again and there was no way his rant was going to be seen by those at LGF as anything other than representing MeFi.

As far as mathowie not accepting feedback from MetaTalk, there have been numerous feature requests that were implemented, users banned and then occasionally un-banned and a huge amount of bug tracking and fixing that were solely the result of MetaTalk, so that is a grossly unfair comment. My opinion only, of course.
posted by dg at 3:18 PM on June 12, 2003

RE: "Matt uses MeTa all the time!"

Are you people blind?
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:37 PM on June 12, 2003

anyone who has been around here long enough to have a number in the double digits (or, more importantly, the single digits) has definitely earned a right to be as crotchety as they care to be.

Single digits. Mathowie and OneBallJay. Who knows what happened to the rest of them?
posted by trharlan at 4:29 PM on June 12, 2003

anyone who has been around here long enough to have a number in the double digits.. has definitely earned a right to be as crotchety as they care to be

Heee-Heee-Heee....

Deal with it fuckers.
posted by jonmc at 4:33 PM on June 12, 2003

But, still nobody seemed to mind when I was just a genial doofus talking about junkfood...

You spend so much time dismissing others' opinions that you really have no idea what they are, do you jon?
posted by jpoulos at 6:20 PM on June 12, 2003

Banning somebody for something they posted on another website is capriciously authoritarian. I will never link to my blog here.
posted by dgaicun at 10:18 PM on June 12, 2003

Trolling another site and dragging out a pissing match between two sites that I've asked people to stop is worthy of banning.

TJH was being an ass, he was not "offering a controversial but honest opinion". Who cares if he can't post anymore.
posted by cohappy at 10:32 PM on June 12, 2003

What exactly happens when one gets banned? Can you still read the site, or does it just redirect you to the MetaCorner?
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 10:49 PM on June 12, 2003

anyone who has been around here long enough to have a number in the double digits.. has definitely earned a right to be as crotchety as they care to be

Horseshit. Everyone member, be they 17058 or 58 should be held to the same standards. Look at the recent bannings of both old and new members. If you're being an ass, you're being an ass, period. A rose by any other ~~name~~ number is a rose.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:09 PM on June 12, 2003

MetaFilter, a pleasant community of diverse and luminous Mensans, where tropical breezes gently waft over the toga-clad enlightened as a chorus of Cherubs softly sing to the strains of Olympian lyres.

I've never read LGF before, though I knew of it, but it was worth dropping by just to read this comment.

That's all.
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 AM on June 13, 2003

I do despise stupidity and arrogance[...]

And your breathtakingly original reaction to these dreadful things is to Steppenwolf into tempting threads, douse yourself with low-octane futility, and ignite your passive nihilistic asshat into a sputtering, derisive flame?

I can hardly wait for next time. Or the time before that.

But, still nobody seemed to mind when I was just a genial doofus talking about junkfood[...]

I never thought of you as obsessively delicatessive. More like responsive, bright and thoughtful...sometimes tragicomic...but lately, you're just the little kid who scrunches his ass through the conference room door, farts, and then runs away...leaving behind little more than a quickly fading, unpleasant whiff of a nif.

Not that there's anything wrong with that - by all means, assault whatever reverences you want - I just think you should razmataz a bit beyond 'Nothing Matters' - leave a more permanent stink, a deeper, more thoughtful tarnish. Focus your gas.

As to the TJH excommunication:

Flabbergasted.
Disenchanted.
Infantilized.

*sticks ass through door*
*BWWWAAAAAPPP*
*runs away*
posted by Opus Dark at 2:30 AM on June 13, 2003

MetaFilter, a pleasant community of diverse and luminous Mensans, where tropical breezes gently waft over the toga-clad enlightened as a chorus of Cherubs softly sing to the strains of Olympian lyres.

best.tagline.ever.

listen folks, the reasons jons cranky is because its summertime in new york , summer of sam and all that.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:43 AM on June 13, 2003

A right wing weblog first decries an online store, resulting in the removal of legal items for sale. Then the weblog decries, possibly harasses MetaFilter, in which the community bans one of its own members.

This reminds me of similar tactics used by other right wing ideologues . . .and looking around, it seems to work very well.
posted by four panels at 6:49 AM on June 13, 2003

because its summertime in new york

summertime in new york? it's raining all the time, man. all the time. I know that in Scotland you don't consider that a bad thing, but some of us do
posted by matteo at 7:02 AM on June 13, 2003

*sticks ass through door*
*BWWWAAAAAPPP*
*runs away*

*sniff*
fruity, with a delightful hint of insouciance.
posted by quonsar at 7:49 AM on June 13, 2003

This reminds me of similar tactics used by other right wing ideologues . . .and looking around, it seems to work very well.

And you know, that's what bugs me most about this. Because MeFi, as I understand it, was never meant to be an explicitly partisan thing, but it seems to have gone that route anyway (and I suppose I'm guilty in part of nudging it in that direction, too).

And ultimately, I feel the way that this has all played out gives the impression, correct or incorrect, that a right-wing site was able to intimidate and cow a left-wing site. And that MeFi, then, becomes a bunch of wimps for running away.

I'd say that the answer isn't to be intimidated, slink away and choose not to fight the fight, except for the fact this isn't supposed to be a partisan site. And so maybe those who'd like to continue this little battle ought to associate ourselves with some other site/organization in order to do so.
posted by kgasmart at 8:00 AM on June 13, 2003

Kick his ass Sea Bass!
posted by Witty at 9:07 AM on June 13, 2003

I, for one, welcome our LGF overlords.
posted by dazed_one at 1:56 PM on June 13, 2003

I, for one, do not.
May need to re-watch "V" to brush up on guerilla tactics.
posted by wendell at 4:08 PM on June 13, 2003

Jus' oily down a virgin nym and slide da boopsie through bakra's fat pipe, mon, and be sure no leave tongue-prints for da Babylon dicks.
posted by Opus Dark at 5:56 PM on June 13, 2003

And so maybe those who'd like to continue this little battle ought to associate ourselves with some other site/organization in order to do so.

Like Little Green Footballs? We can get fifth column on their collective ass and have them singing Kumbaya in no time--let's infiltrate a few sleeper cells! I'm, like, Steven Den Beste--who wants to be Evanizer?
posted by y2karl at 2:10 AM on June 14, 2003

dgaicun: I will never link to my blog here.

I imagine that, despite this loss, we will still somehow struggle on.
posted by webmutant at 3:26 AM on June 14, 2003

webmutant - I think you misunderstand... dgaicun isn't threatening to never link to Metafilter from his own blog, which is what you are implying, but rather just to never post a link to his own blog on his user page or anywhere else, in order to preserve anonymity. If Matt's banning people based on external content, it might make sense, frankly. Still, very snarky of you, two points. Carry on.
posted by jonson at 7:38 AM on June 14, 2003

You think in bizzaro world there's a site run by a unassuming geek named George Bush that is populated by people complaining about the fascist downward spiral the country has taken under the leadership of President Matthew A. Haughey?
posted by Mick at 9:35 AM on June 14, 2003

Actually, jonson, I think you misunderstand—webmutant was implying we will somehow struggle on without having access to dgaicun's blog. (Which was also my reaction when I saw his take-that comment.) Correct me if I'm wrong, webmutant.
posted by languagehat at 10:11 AM on June 14, 2003

You think in bizzaro world.........

yes there is , but i actually have a life in that dimension so i dont know too much about it.
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:42 AM on June 14, 2003

who wants to be Evanizer?

i have always wanted to be evanizer.
posted by quonsar at 11:43 AM on June 14, 2003

We can get fifth column on their collective ass and have them singing Kumbaya in no time--let's infiltrate a few sleeper cells! I'm, like, Steven Den Beste--who wants to be Evanizer?

You might post under a pseudo, but the numbers will not lie and you may very well find yourself without a voice here. Depends how much LGF feels like sharing IP addresses with Matt.

What do I know tho, give it a shot. Post as thirteen even.
posted by thirteen at 11:56 AM on June 14, 2003

Web mutant/Language Hat,

Thank you for needlessly being assholes. It wasn't a threat ("take-that"), and even to the extent that it was, it wasn't directed at either of you. I thought MetaTalk was a place where I could voice concerns over community policy. I find this very offensive policy, and I support TJH's account being reactivated. I feel that I am responding to the policy accordingly, and my statement should be taken no further.
posted by dgaicun at 3:30 PM on June 14, 2003

Authority on being an asshole though you are, I think you are being a little thin skinned there, buddy. But to the point, I agree this is a very offensive policy, and support TJH's account being reactivated as well.
posted by y2karl at 9:24 PM on June 14, 2003

You might post under a pseudo, but the numbers will not lie
Sometimes the numbers do lie.
posted by Sirius at 11:06 PM on June 14, 2003

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Truly over the deep end, again June 11, 2003 2:26 PM Subscribe

Truly over the deep end, again
June 11, 2003 2:26 PM Subscribe