Bring back the via! June 13, 2003 7:58 AM Subscribe
Whatever happened to good old via? Lately attributions on MetaFilter have become rarer and rarer. Have we all suddenly started finding our own links the hard way or has the habit sadly declined?
The via was always rare in a post. So I don't think much has changed.
posted by riffola at 8:06 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by riffola at 8:06 AM on June 13, 2003
Matt's prior take on this issue:
Credit sources if you feel like it, it's up to you. I usually do it, especially if I found it on someone's blog somehwere, but it's not required and can get a bit tiresome if everything on the site had a via link. About half the things I post here I find myself while randomly surfing, I would hope the rest of the membership can find something that way as well.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:18 AM on June 13, 2003
Credit sources if you feel like it, it's up to you. I usually do it, especially if I found it on someone's blog somehwere, but it's not required and can get a bit tiresome if everything on the site had a via link. About half the things I post here I find myself while randomly surfing, I would hope the rest of the membership can find something that way as well.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:18 AM on June 13, 2003
Perhaps Matt could code a "Via Bifurcated Rivets" button directly into the toolbar.
posted by yerfatma at 8:49 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by yerfatma at 8:49 AM on June 13, 2003
You know who could use the via thing? That guy from Fimoculous. Once in a while he tries to get all blasé on MeFi (like "oh I don't go there much these days" or putting MeFi last on a 2002 best blogs lists and going "I'm trying to make a point by placing MetaFilter at the bottom" blahblahblah), but practically every week something from MeFi appears (later on) in Fimoculous, always duly uncredited. Apart from being a very strange coincidence, so to speak, it's sad because except for his Buffy obsession it's not a bad blog at all.
posted by 111 at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by 111 at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2003
Almost everything that I post here is something I have come across while searching for something else on the web. If I find a site that I think might be interesting for MeFi, I do a search, and if it's been "blogged" I don't post it. I don't do this because it's what I consider the "proper" procedure, but simply because I have no other way of knowing what might be overexposed since I don't have the time to read very many blogs or "Hot Pick" sites.
I'm grateful for a lot of the things that do show up here from other sites, though, because otherwise I wouldn't see them. Personally, I think putting the "via" on the inside page is a rather graceful way of handling it.
posted by taz at 9:23 AM on June 13, 2003
I'm grateful for a lot of the things that do show up here from other sites, though, because otherwise I wouldn't see them. Personally, I think putting the "via" on the inside page is a rather graceful way of handling it.
posted by taz at 9:23 AM on June 13, 2003
A button for "via Obscure Store" would be used about 10 times a day.
posted by GaelFC at 9:41 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by GaelFC at 9:41 AM on June 13, 2003
Perhaps Matt could code a "Via Bifurcated Rivets" button directly into the toolbar.
Right after that, he can code a "Possibly via the front page of MetaFilter but I swear I searched and anyway someone might have missed it yesterday" button
posted by stefanie at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2003
Right after that, he can code a "Possibly via the front page of MetaFilter but I swear I searched and anyway someone might have missed it yesterday" button
posted by stefanie at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2003
8 out of the 10 links I've posted were not advertised in links on other sites. I found them either by casually browsing around until something stood out, or through an email from a friend.
via always struck me as a little bit competitive, as if the attribution is intended to give the person who linked to it first some kind of shout out to "X, who is cooler than me..." This is fine, I suppose. But it can get out of hand.
I mean, what do you get for having more via than anybody else? Can via points ever be truly substantiated?
posted by scarabic at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2003
via always struck me as a little bit competitive, as if the attribution is intended to give the person who linked to it first some kind of shout out to "X, who is cooler than me..." This is fine, I suppose. But it can get out of hand.
I mean, what do you get for having more via than anybody else? Can via points ever be truly substantiated?
posted by scarabic at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2003
I was wondering, what if the link posted at the other end of the via was in turn via another (third) site?
posted by carter at 10:05 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by carter at 10:05 AM on June 13, 2003
I was wondering, what if the link posted at the other end of the via was in turn via another (third) site?
Ha. I've seen that. I wish I could show an example.
posted by padraigin at 10:07 AM on June 13, 2003
Ha. I've seen that. I wish I could show an example.
posted by padraigin at 10:07 AM on June 13, 2003
via always struck me as a little bit competitive, as if the attribution is intended to give the person who linked to it first some kind of shout out
Uh, it's called attribution. When you quote somebody, you're supposed to say who you're quoting; is that "competitive" too? Of course it's not the same thing, because the link isn't the creation of the person whose site you found it at, but the principle is the same. What, you'd rather pretend you found it by divine inspiration?
I was wondering, what if the link posted at the other end of the via was in turn via another (third) site?
This is very often the case as things get passed around the internet. Obviously it would get ridiculous if you tried to credit everyone along the chain; my rule (and it seems to be most people's) is to credit the person I got it from and let my readers follow it back if they choose.
posted by languagehat at 10:29 AM on June 13, 2003
Uh, it's called attribution. When you quote somebody, you're supposed to say who you're quoting; is that "competitive" too? Of course it's not the same thing, because the link isn't the creation of the person whose site you found it at, but the principle is the same. What, you'd rather pretend you found it by divine inspiration?
I was wondering, what if the link posted at the other end of the via was in turn via another (third) site?
This is very often the case as things get passed around the internet. Obviously it would get ridiculous if you tried to credit everyone along the chain; my rule (and it seems to be most people's) is to credit the person I got it from and let my readers follow it back if they choose.
posted by languagehat at 10:29 AM on June 13, 2003
I usually attribute when I think the attribution might be an interesting part of the post. Is it an off-the-beaten-path blog? I would be less inclined to credit a blog that I see mentioned on MeFi frequently and more inclined to credit one that I think fellow members may not have seen, or seen lately. It's nice to be neighborly, but the danger can be in becoming an echo chamber.
Since joining MeFi, I also find a lot of interesting things on member sites...we've probably all clicked though to the sites of our more vocal members, but there are some fascinating sites created by our quieter members too - I love discovering *quiet* member sites.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:30 AM on June 13, 2003 [1 favorite]
Since joining MeFi, I also find a lot of interesting things on member sites...we've probably all clicked though to the sites of our more vocal members, but there are some fascinating sites created by our quieter members too - I love discovering *quiet* member sites.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:30 AM on June 13, 2003 [1 favorite]
the link isn't the creation of the person whose site you found it at, but the principle is the same
Uh, not it's not. I'm glad your own opinion on it is obvious to you, but this is exactly what's under discussion.
What are you attributing to the person you sourced the link from? That they spend more time online? That they instinctively click on more interesting links? That they have more friends and sources? That they don't have their own MeFi login? What?
Some people behave as if there's an economy of coolness surrounding "who knew it first," or who is at the top of the distribution pyramid. Anyway, as others have pointed out, you can usually only point out who was above you, not who was at the top.
I don't see this kind of attribution as incredibly valuable to the person being attributed. But there is another value in it: sending the audience upstream. As in, if everyone just visited SITE-X every day, it wouldn't be necessary to post its links on MeFi.
I will post a via if the source site is lesser-known and worth discovering unto itself. I've found several cool sites this way. via in this light, is a way of saying "furthermore, the rest of the site where I found this is also cool. check it out."
A via attribution cuts out the middleman, but increases the number of sites you have to browse in order to potentially get all the cool links faster. This trade-off may account for ambivalence in using it. For example, I know that the people who read my blog aren't going to start reading kottke, MeFi, fark, etc. no matter how many via links I include.
posted by scarabic at 11:33 AM on June 13, 2003
Uh, not it's not. I'm glad your own opinion on it is obvious to you, but this is exactly what's under discussion.
What are you attributing to the person you sourced the link from? That they spend more time online? That they instinctively click on more interesting links? That they have more friends and sources? That they don't have their own MeFi login? What?
Some people behave as if there's an economy of coolness surrounding "who knew it first," or who is at the top of the distribution pyramid. Anyway, as others have pointed out, you can usually only point out who was above you, not who was at the top.
I don't see this kind of attribution as incredibly valuable to the person being attributed. But there is another value in it: sending the audience upstream. As in, if everyone just visited SITE-X every day, it wouldn't be necessary to post its links on MeFi.
I will post a via if the source site is lesser-known and worth discovering unto itself. I've found several cool sites this way. via in this light, is a way of saying "furthermore, the rest of the site where I found this is also cool. check it out."
A via attribution cuts out the middleman, but increases the number of sites you have to browse in order to potentially get all the cool links faster. This trade-off may account for ambivalence in using it. For example, I know that the people who read my blog aren't going to start reading kottke, MeFi, fark, etc. no matter how many via links I include.
posted by scarabic at 11:33 AM on June 13, 2003
The link IS attribution. The via can be useful if there is meta-information where you found it, and that only if to a permalink. Otherwise, it's an affectation which takes too much time. All IMO.
posted by walrus at 11:38 AM on June 13, 2003
posted by walrus at 11:38 AM on June 13, 2003
That guy from Fimoculous.
That is, rex. He's already talked a little bit here about this topic (in one of the several previous threads on the matter, Miguel). He doesn't come right out and say he doesn't believe in it ("what, a conspiracy of cartographers?"), but has clearly thought about it and decided against it. Life goes on, diff'rent strokes and all that. Go read the old threads.
posted by gleuschk at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2003
That is, rex. He's already talked a little bit here about this topic (in one of the several previous threads on the matter, Miguel). He doesn't come right out and say he doesn't believe in it ("what, a conspiracy of cartographers?"), but has clearly thought about it and decided against it. Life goes on, diff'rent strokes and all that. Go read the old threads.
posted by gleuschk at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2003
The real question here is why anyone would give a tinker's damn either way. It's certainly not vital information--if you quoted Heraclitus in an article, you wouldn't need to point out that you first discovered the quote in Boswell--but at the same time I'm unable to see how it's hurting anyone. Personally, I've discovered a few excellent sites via the much-maligned Via. It seems to me that those who feel the need to complain about it sense in its presence some implied baleful motivation that doesn't really exist. Plus, you're generally talking about two or three words at the end of a post that can be easily ignored.
posted by vraxoin at 1:15 PM on June 13, 2003
posted by vraxoin at 1:15 PM on June 13, 2003
scarabic: I guess we differ. If somebody shows me something interesting, I tend to say "Hey, look at this cool thing X showed me!" It seems to me a matter of giving X proper respect for having found it. Apparently you're content to just tell someone "Look at this cool thing!" and not worry about who's responsible, which is fine with me. And like madamjujujive I'm especially likely to attribute if it's a small site that can use the referrals, just as I've been glad to get visits from people because plep or wood s lot or somebody cited me as the source of a link. As vraxoin says: "Personally, I've discovered a few excellent sites via the much-maligned Via."
posted by languagehat at 8:04 PM on June 13, 2003
posted by languagehat at 8:04 PM on June 13, 2003
It seems to me that those who feel the need to complain about it sense in its presence some implied baleful motivation that doesn't really exist.
In my case I just can't be bothered to do it unless I see it as adding something. I point that out whenever I perceive a call to make it some required part of unofficial netiquette. It's really no big deal, and I'm perfectly happy for anyone else to do it if they want to. As I said above, it's useful if it's a permalink to an article which adds meta-information to the link.
posted by walrus at 1:42 AM on June 14, 2003
In my case I just can't be bothered to do it unless I see it as adding something. I point that out whenever I perceive a call to make it some required part of unofficial netiquette. It's really no big deal, and I'm perfectly happy for anyone else to do it if they want to. As I said above, it's useful if it's a permalink to an article which adds meta-information to the link.
posted by walrus at 1:42 AM on June 14, 2003
The real question here is why anyone would give a tinker's damn either way.
it's a miguelcardoso meta thread. what'd you expect?
posted by kv at 5:04 AM on June 14, 2003
it's a miguelcardoso meta thread. what'd you expect?
posted by kv at 5:04 AM on June 14, 2003
My two pence :-
If a blog links to something you find interesting, they are likely to link to other things you find interesting. So, both the casual browser benefits by finding a new source, and the blogmaster benefits by gaining readers. Why not attribute?
posted by plep at 3:38 AM on June 15, 2003
If a blog links to something you find interesting, they are likely to link to other things you find interesting. So, both the casual browser benefits by finding a new source, and the blogmaster benefits by gaining readers. Why not attribute?
posted by plep at 3:38 AM on June 15, 2003
Also, it doesn't just have to apply to weblogs... there is a lot of good stuff via Interesting Ideas, for instance.
Not everyone finds their links 'via' a weblog though... search engines, the Google directory, mailing lists, news sites, etc. etc. are all good sources too (which aren't obvious candidates).
posted by plep at 3:42 AM on June 15, 2003
Not everyone finds their links 'via' a weblog though... search engines, the Google directory, mailing lists, news sites, etc. etc. are all good sources too (which aren't obvious candidates).
posted by plep at 3:42 AM on June 15, 2003
As plep said, but I don't think it just applies to blogs. If a particular item from anysite is interesting to you, there is a good chance that there will be more of the same there. It may be even just to bookmark it for later research into a subject that you are interested in, rather than something that specifically catches your eye at the time.
MiguelCardoso, you think way too much. Next time you feel like posting to MeTa, go out and get drunk/laid/down and dirty/whatever then when you come back to being sober and clean, see if you still want to start the thread ;-)
posted by dg at 3:26 PM on June 15, 2003
MiguelCardoso, you think way too much. Next time you feel like posting to MeTa, go out and get drunk/laid/down and dirty/whatever then when you come back to being sober and clean, see if you still want to start the thread ;-)
posted by dg at 3:26 PM on June 15, 2003
i am blogmaster! all bow before my wrath!!!! :>>
i pray for the day that the word blog dies an untimely and painful death
posted by poopy at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2003
i pray for the day that the word blog dies an untimely and painful death
posted by poopy at 5:12 PM on June 28, 2003
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posted by Space Coyote at 8:06 AM on June 13, 2003