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PettyGrudgeFilter
June 14, 2003 11:09 PM   Subscribe

PettyGrudgeFilter. Part of the amusement of Mefi isn't just the content, but getting to know the personalities behind the posts (admit it - if it weren't, why not just make all posts anonymous?). More Inside</small.
posted by jonson to Feature Requests at 11:09 PM (370 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

So, I'm running across more and more of the kinds of comments where one user will attack another not based on anything they've said in the current thread, but rather making reference to some long standing grudge between the two of them. Rather than hope for a shift in human nature (and being no stranger to petty grudges), I'm not posting a "hey, can't we all just get along", but rather a "hey, how 'bout a little background here?". Come on people, it's tough enough to tell some of you apart already, without having to remember which one of you hates crunchland. I mean, seriously, these pissing matches would be more entertaining if we had some context in which to place them, historically. So here's my feature request: On each user's profile page, next to the name/email/blog field, how about a "who are you angry at and why" field, where you could get into detail about just what was eating you up. I'd suggest just placing it into plain text, but the real value here lies in building a grudge matrix from the database, so that we could rank things, create a pettiness index, give awards for longest running grudge, etc. Please bear in mind two things: 1) This is for petty, personal grievances, between two people, not mass grievances like the anti-miguel or anti-right wing, or whatever group, and 2) I'm completely joking, this a brutal idea, what I really mean is, hey, can't we all just get along?"
posted by jonson at 11:10 PM on June 14, 2003


Most of us have just been counting on your user page to serve this need...
posted by taz at 11:16 PM on June 14, 2003


See, that's my problem. The user page only has MY petty grudges. They are not as interesting to me. Here's an offer: until such time as matt gets off his ass and re-codes Mefi to my specifications, anyone who wants can email me their petty grudge, and I'll post it on my page. Much like Salmonberry's free postcard offer, except replace friendly & generous with unpleasant and vituperative.
posted by jonson at 11:20 PM on June 14, 2003


Oh great, jonson. So now I'm a mass grievance. How much further must I fall before I'm accepted as just another Joe?

That said, there are indisputably clusters of those one likes and those one doesn't. On what basis are these predilections judged? I have no idea.

I suspect the real divide is between the liberationists, who advocate "live and let live; let's have fun; we're all going to die"; and the legalists, who say "we must all live together in perfect harmony" and therefore propose rules; debate; punishments; strictures and common purposes.

I hate the latter. Do I respect them? No, not really. I'm deficient that way.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:37 PM on June 14, 2003


Is this "mass grievance" a Catholic thing? And if so, does this mean your user page will become the "petty confessional"? Brace yourself, Father Jonson!
posted by taz at 12:23 AM on June 15, 2003


I dont have petty grudges but I do have some crushes.

Here's an offer: until such time as matt gets off his ass and re-codes Mefi to my specifications, anyone who wants can email me their Mefi crush, and I'll post it on my page.
posted by vacapinta at 12:46 AM on June 15, 2003


I keep checking your page vacapinta, and I have this to say about that: "physician, reveal thyself!". I'm sure the rest of us will follow suit. Really. You first...
posted by taz at 1:08 AM on June 15, 2003


ok, done! I'll finish it tomorrow.

I am not sure its even a good idea but I tend to rise to a challenge like that. I'm predictable that way.
posted by vacapinta at 1:36 AM on June 15, 2003


jonson, its sounds like you're the one obsessed with the "personalities" here. I thought your user page was a joke but now re-reading it, its actually serious.

As for the anonymous posting argument, well its been hashed out more than once here and if slashdot, or any other site that allows anon posting, is an example then we're better off without it. If people want anon they can have it by asking others to post something for them. The really paranoid can send these letters out via anonymous proxies.

What I like most about the current setup is that the user's name is at the bottom on the comment and, of course, we read top-down.

A real solution to petty personality clashes, fixing the noise to signal ratio, etc would be a moderation system a la slashdot or K5. Matt is pretty against this kind of thing, so here we are, but I doubt more anon stuff would help as much as it would hurt.

Plus its beneficial to have a name attached to a post. It keeps astroturfing low (I agree with anon249 also!) and could make a .killfile much easier to implement.
posted by skallas at 2:57 AM on June 15, 2003


It's a good point skallas - this place works (despite what some might say) because it relies on humans to sort out their own mess, one way or the other. No moderation. No meta-moderation. No karma. No anonymous cowards. No friend/foe lists. It's as close as the net comes to actually dealing with real people.

And if you give in to it, it works brilliantly. There are a few folks around here who's comments have offended me at times - then I've seen them make a brilliant FPP. There are people who I've detested until I've heard them talk about their dog in #mefi. The world don't march to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, may not be right for some. Free the world, make it a better place, for you and for me and the entire human race.

In short, just make a bloody concerted effort not to bear grudges. It doesn't do anyone any good.
posted by Jimbob at 3:32 AM on June 15, 2003


I agree with all your points about anonymous posting, skallas, but jonson wasn't actually advocating for that. He just said that if "getting to know the personalities behind the posts" weren't important, then we would have anonymous posting.

and of course, as far as backgrounding our grudges goes, his final comment is "I'm completely joking, this a brutal idea, what I really mean is, hey, can't we all just get along?". Which I completely agree with. MeTa has been in some sort of full-moon wereposting cycle for the last few days, and a lot of people have been all kinds of crazy, exhibiting the full range of symptoms: bared fangs, howling, pack behaviour, stiff neck, and blood lust. In fact, I'm chewing on a clove of garlic as I write this (not that it will protect me from wereposters and threadvampires, but just because).
posted by taz at 4:35 AM on June 15, 2003


And skallas, for the record, my user page is about 20% serious, 80% joking, with the 20% unfortunately reserved for people who've done or said really atrocious things here. Although, honestly, I'm sure I'm more "aware" of the personalities here, can you honestly say I'm the only one who lets the person posting color my take on what it is they are saying, for better or for worse?
posted by jonson at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2003


I don't like Steven Den Beste, but he doesn't post anymore so GAME ON.
posted by mcsweetie at 7:42 AM on June 15, 2003


*lurches into the room and vomits violently into the corner*
posted by quonsar at 8:52 AM on June 15, 2003


Jonson:

Since I'm not on your "enemies list," does this mean you like me?

He likes me! He really likes me! (giggle!)
posted by jpburns at 8:56 AM on June 15, 2003


Vaca - I have a crush on Quonsar. No need to post it to your page, I want the whole world to know. I also have crushes on Iconomy, Stan Chin, MadamJuJuJive, Crash Davis & yhbc, for reasons ranging from cleverness to fantastic link finding capabilities. Also: jpburns, sure, I like you (not, you know, as much as I like Quonsar), but for the 1 billionth time, people IT'S NOT AN ENEMIES LIST! I'm not the ghost of Nixon, although I share his raging anti-semitism and perpetual five o'clock shadow.
posted by jonson at 9:00 AM on June 15, 2003


but you like the press, right?
posted by quonsar at 9:25 AM on June 15, 2003


and you are using the capital Q on purpose now, aren't you? you got yhbc and jpburns correct. attempting to instill a petty grudge, are you?
posted by quonsar at 9:30 AM on June 15, 2003


While many may not like Slashdot's anonymous coward system, the Friend/Foe system is interesting.

Next to poster's names you might see a colored icon. These icons represent your relationship to other posters. You can flag a person as a Friend or Foe.

Once you start using this reputation system, the secondary elements come into play.

You can see Fans and Freaks. When you select someone as a friend, it makes you that users fan. Freaks work similar to fans, except they are people who have chosen you as their foes. (cut/paste from /.) You can also see Friends of Friends and Foes of Friends.

This straightforward rep system is suprisingly useful in sorting out the varied users.
posted by Argyle at 10:05 AM on June 15, 2003


Argyle - very interesting. I've not spent too much time at /., since I find it a little overwhelming, and perhaps too tech oriented for my tastes, but that system does sound like it would add another dimension to the interaction, thanks!
posted by jonson at 10:10 AM on June 15, 2003


jonson,

If you are going to dip your toe in the water at Slashdot, I'll make one suggestion. Browse at +4 or +5. This eliminates most of the noise and improves the signal.

Once you crave more of the in-jokes, lower it to +3 or +2.
posted by Argyle at 10:12 AM on June 15, 2003


[Sally Fields] vacapinta likes me! He really likes me! [/Sally Fields]

Ooh, this is making me giddy--I have to go lie down now....

On another topic, I don't hate crunchland--crunchland hates me. And Miguel. And whoever else is on his shit list... He's always the first to pick up torch and pitchfork and march on Frankenstein's castle whenever there's a pile on the Monster Du Jour in MetaTalk. One thing we'll never run out of here is scapegoats.

On a serious note, what I find disturbing is the innovation of user pages being devoted to trashing other members.
posted by y2karl at 10:23 AM on June 15, 2003


I mean, c'mon--user pages? I thought that's what Metatalk is for...
posted by y2karl at 10:25 AM on June 15, 2003


vacapinta! You've made me blush.

That slashdot system is intriguing, actually. I mean, it's oversimplified, but unless you're one of the superstars around these parts, it's really hard to tell what people think of you; there's something appealing about a system that gives you a rundown.
posted by mdn at 10:37 AM on June 15, 2003


i used to rail against the formidable quonsar...now i read Blort with vim.

put the petty squabbles aside and start new one i say.
posted by clavdivs at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2003


All this makes me want to start talking down fat chicks again. Nothing like being a hated member of the community.
posted by wackybrit at 11:21 AM on June 15, 2003


(and being no stranger to petty grudges)

Indeed.
posted by y2karl at 11:22 AM on June 15, 2003


I'm not the ghost of Nixon, although I share his raging anti-semitism and perpetual five o'clock shadow.

but you like the press, right?


The press didn't like Nixon, and there is a theory in Poli-Sci circles that this and his five-o'clock-shadow are what really led to his eventual downfall. Seriously. Then again, his afternoon bender (during which it was common knowledge that no one would have listened had he given the order to "push the button" during a nuclear emergency) didn't help. But Watergate was just nails in the coffin.

On another topic, I don't hate crunchland--crunchland hates me.

I generally wait for people to hate me for no reason before I hate them.

You know, it would be fun to just all take truth serum and spill it all. Get it out of our systems, then blame it on a Nixon-esque afternoon bender. "________ is an asshole! All he ever posts about is _____!"

"Sorry. I was drunk."

Heh heh.
posted by Shane at 11:27 AM on June 15, 2003


I have at least one entire user page devoted to hating me. It's moving, deeply moving
posted by NortonDC at 11:29 AM on June 15, 2003


What I find somewhat disturbing is the extreme pigeonholing going on with that userpage. Maybe it's just doing outloud what most of us do in our heads, but still.
posted by adampsyche at 11:40 AM on June 15, 2003


I have at least one entire user page devoted to hating me.

While not knowing the particular page in question, the concept itself could perhaps be summed up as Having The Last Word For Losers.
posted by y2karl at 12:32 PM on June 15, 2003


And speaking of not being able to tell people apart, I'm always confusing angry modem with Modem Ovary.
posted by y2karl at 12:54 PM on June 15, 2003


I could never use a system such as /. as my opinion of posters usually changes depending on the last thing I saw them post. I hate anything that prevents me from being flexible.
posted by konolia at 1:32 PM on June 15, 2003


other than the Good Book, I assume.
posted by azimuth at 2:27 PM on June 15, 2003


oooh! wounding...
posted by dash_slot- at 3:08 PM on June 15, 2003


I have a simple way to resolve this issue - I hate everyone with equal passion (not just at MeFi, either) and assume that they feel the same way about me. That way I can focus on what they say now rather than what they said in a completely different context.

I love the thought of being able to mark people as friends/foes, especially if the list was part of the user page, so that we could look at who other users like and dislike. Then we could seek out people who dislike the same users that we do and band together to hunt them down and flame every word they utter.
posted by dg at 4:04 PM on June 15, 2003


But I thought we had something good going, dg...
posted by dazed_one at 4:13 PM on June 15, 2003


other than the Good Book, I assume

Don't be silly. I have a choice about whether to follow the Lord or not. If I wanted to turn into a flaming atheist tomorrow I have the flexibility to do so.

I also have the choice whether or not I want a parachute if I jump out of an airplane.

Don't mistake the desirability of one choice over another for inflexibility. Okeydokey?
posted by konolia at 4:29 PM on June 15, 2003


how could anyone possibly confuse me with with madam ovary?

On the slashdot note, I read it at -1, and love it.
posted by angry modem at 5:12 PM on June 15, 2003


If I wanted to turn into a flaming atheist tomorrow...

That sounds like a cocktail, probably containing Sambuca, and maybe brandy, but not Christian Brothers brandy.

Unlike my son, jonson, I have no need or desire to broadcast my mefi crushes. Y'all know who you are or you have inklings...
posted by jonmc at 6:17 PM on June 15, 2003


*hands jonmc a flaming atheist*
Yeah, we know who we are all right ;-)
posted by dg at 7:17 PM on June 15, 2003


why jonson, I didn't think you cared!
/me bats eyelashes fetchingly, blushes

As for crushes, I have way too many here to name. Somehow the idea of naming names reminded me of a story about my Mom. We had seven kids in the family, and one day she told me I was her very special favorite, but not to tell the other kids because it would hurt them terribly. It wasn't til well into adulthood when we all learned that each of us was her "special favorite," each of us believed it for years, and we had all kept the knowledge in confidence as she asked.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:33 PM on June 15, 2003 [1 favorite]


the crush bit is funny 'cause i was just talking with someone about mefi crushes. my heart skips a beat over rj reynolds, languagehat, and madamejujujive...i suppose this is more just meek encouragement to them to keep posting and commenting, and general thanks for what they've already contributed. out in the open now.

also, someone (my regrets that i can't recall who...ack) once mentioned their collected 'found sounds' blog and it was one of my favorite from-a-mefi-user sites.
posted by ifjuly at 7:33 PM on June 15, 2003


hmm... the blood has become thin and blue... we need young, 19K red blood!
posted by MzB at 8:16 PM on June 15, 2003


It wasn't til well into adulthood when we all learned that each of us was her "special favorite," each of us believed it for years, and we had all kept the knowledge in confidence as she asked.

Heh! Miles Davis did the opposite.

*Miles whispers in Adderly's ear* Cannonball, why can't you play more like Coltrane?

*Miles whispers in Coltrane's ear* Coltrane, why can't you play more like Cannonball?
posted by Shane at 8:24 PM on June 15, 2003


I have a pretty major crush on a mefite.
posted by mcsweetie at 8:36 PM on June 15, 2003


Anyone who's seen iconomy's blog knows that "crush" is not a strong enough word.

As to petty grudges, I like to think that once a thread's done you start over again with a clean slate. I fantasize that others think of it this way too. Of course there are exceptions - but those I consider my long-term foes seem to me to be psychotic, so I'm loath to stir them up any further by putting anything on my user page a la jonson. Perhaps I seem the same way to them, I dunno.
posted by soyjoy at 8:46 PM on June 15, 2003


I love hama7.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 9:42 PM on June 15, 2003


after that first comment i love taz.
posted by folktrash at 10:51 PM on June 15, 2003


I like all those zippy uni-syllabic nomenclature people:

taz, taz, taz! plep, plep, plep! snez, snez, snez!
posted by madamjujujive at 11:17 PM on June 15, 2003


Say, have you all forgotten somebody, or does it go without saying that we all have a crush on our one and only . . .
posted by ashbury at 11:49 PM on June 15, 2003


I have at least one entire user page devoted to hating me.

Me too. I hate it, actually.
posted by timeistight at 2:19 AM on June 16, 2003


ashbury, I think most of have a crush on mathowie in the same way we have a crush on our somewhat disapproving fathers - we want to gain his approval and, until we do, we feel out in the cold. And most of us have a crush on miguel in the same way that we have a crush on our fun-loving, accepting and liberal fathers - we want to know that he loves us in particular, individually, and not as he loves just everybody else. In honor of fathers' day, the alpha and omega of Mefi father figures...

also, I started thinking about my mefi crushes, and realized that I have an awful lot of them... many, many more than mefi grudges (only one so far). If you think you might be among the former, you're probably right. If you think you might be the o n e, you're probably wrong.
posted by taz at 3:36 AM on June 16, 2003


Theres lots of people i like on mefi , its a great site .
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:37 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson: I know we're being encouraged to celebrate your user page as some kind of statement on the facile way we form judgments about each other, but after reading it for the first time, I'm thoroughly embarrassed on your behalf. Comments like "can come across like a dick" and "will send you pissy emails" make me think you're excessively in touch with your inner child, and she's a bratty 10-year-old girl with self-esteem problems.
posted by rcade at 5:18 AM on June 16, 2003


you're excessively in touch with your inner child, and she's a bratty 10-year-old girl with self-esteem problems

Just like everyone else here. So?
posted by konolia at 5:34 AM on June 16, 2003


i'm glad this thread became a lovefest rather than the grudge fest jonson posted. metafilter has renewed my faith one again.

jonson your list is freaking evil. everybody makes fucked-up posts. one of the coolest things about metafilter is that the poster in the wrong is usually shown why their post isn't up to snuff, often with a rational basis. this "showing of the light" may not be always done in the most civil of ways, but thats the risk you take when you hit the post button.

generally grudges flare out within a couple of threads. i haven't paid very close attention to your user page, but it seems once somebody gets on it, they are on it for good. nobody deserves to remebered in perpetuity for their lowest points. remember that time you talked back to your mother? is that your defining moment?

personalities do make mefi interesting. your stupid list (and this thread's attempt to perpetuate it) do not.
posted by danOstuporStar at 6:01 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson's user page reminds me of the work of a 14 year old, composing a list of the coolest people in school. rcade's right - it's an embarrasment.
posted by johnny novak at 6:03 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson's user page... it's an embarrasment.

jonson's user page is hilarious. We all have lists like his in our heads (or, like me, in private on the PC) anyway. We have to. Otherwise, what happens when you forget who someone is and try to play nice with a person who is just going to piss on your attempts at civility, just like they did last time?

jonson's list is funny because he drags it out in the open, making fun of Mefi's playground politics and making fun of himself in the process.

Denying that Mefi is full of politics and agendas and adopting a holier-than-thou attitude only makes things worse. Humor is better than repression any day.

It's humor, folks. Get a fucking grip.
posted by Shane at 6:21 AM on June 16, 2003


What's weird is, my list is mostly positive, mentions a couple people doing ugly things, and yet generates such a viscerally negative response. Shane's right, it is there for my amusement - I'm sorry it rubs so many the wrong way. I think, sometimes, a caustic sense of humor translates very poorly online, at least I know emails I've seen in the past have had that effect. DanO, I will challenge you on one point - I do go back and edit from time to time - and remember, the user page is the one part of Mefi that ISN'T permanent, unlike the comments made in the blue or gray, things there actually can be changed. rcade, johnny, points taken... let's just say our opinions diverge there.
posted by jonson at 6:43 AM on June 16, 2003


Get a life jonson.
posted by 111 at 7:10 AM on June 16, 2003


Oh, come on. jonson's list is already an institution here. I think some of this outrage is from people who are just upset that they hadn't seen it yet.

However, jonson, there is one thing that should be changed: Instead of "Miguel - Started a Meta thread to debate whether he was dominating his own Mefi Post," it should read "Miguel - Joe Jackson hater."
posted by soyjoy at 7:18 AM on June 16, 2003


111: Surly fellow. Wants me to get a life.
posted by jonson
posted by Shane at 7:19 AM on June 16, 2003


How is any of this weird, jonson?

You're engaging in, celebrating, and encouraging anti-social behavior. Unlike most barbs on Metafilter, which are made in the heat of the moment, your comments like "is a dick" and "is a complete and utter prick" have extra long-lasting flavor because they're communicated every time someone views your user page. You've had the time to reflect and keep slagging specific people anyway.

Are you really precocious enough to be mystified by the "viscerally negative" reaction?

For me, what translates poorly is the rationalization that it's all "caustic humor" the rest of us are misunderstanding. I think I could enjoy the personal animus more if it wasn't pretending to be a big laugh. I prefer anti-social behavior for its own sake, without the pretense that allows the practitioner to think he's not being an asshole.
posted by rcade at 7:35 AM on June 16, 2003


(grump)All you people who hate jonson's list-go play with your own userpages and leave him alone.(/grump)
posted by konolia at 7:38 AM on June 16, 2003


I do go back and edit from time to time

You add names and comments--but how often do you delete the nastier things you say? I think this whole Revenge via User Page thing is creepy. That it's more common than I realized is not exciting news. My comment linked is not one of my finer moments but, while it was mostly in response for crunchland's many previous gratutious slams on me, in point of fact it was based on his prior comment in the thread towards Miguel, so you could have used a better example.

You can think someone is a complete and utter prick is but writing it out on your user page is on the creepy and pathetic side. I don't like your page or Steve@Linnwood's vendetta section on his page because you both take what you think is a shining example of someone else's stupidity and get in the last word. You make anyone look stupid by cherry picking their comments with no fear of retort... How fearless...

I don't think you realized what side of yourself you've exposed in your little list or in making up this clever little post. I can see the humor but at the same time it's like you're trying to egg on fights. It's like, Hey, there's a fire! Jonson: Wait, I'll go get a bucket of gasoline!

We're all human beings here--we don't need to add metafilter>>mean spirited or metafilter>>let's you and him fight! as new MetaTalk categories. I'm glad you're taking heat for this.

Upon review: now I see you're moderating your thread here. Making yourself look good to yourself but not necessarily anyone else...
posted by y2karl at 7:39 AM on June 16, 2003


Let's all pause for a moment to insure that we've taken our lithium, shall we?
posted by crunchland at 7:40 AM on June 16, 2003


*hands crunchland tranquilizer dart gun*
posted by konolia at 8:03 AM on June 16, 2003


i was gonna reply to your editing challenge, jonson, but y2karl did a better job than i could. suffice to say, some of those links on your page go waay back.

regarding the positive notes on your page (and "all in good fun" defense), i'll admit my "yr list is evil" hyperbole is itself rooted in a grudge. this comment during the Little Green Footballs fiasco really rubbed me the wrong way.

i had been aware of your profile before then from the numerous allusions to it by other users. that comment was the first time i'd seen you use the list as a threat. your only contribution to the thread (besides "let's beat up the fat kids") was your snotty declaration that XQUZYPHYR was now on the list. like you're some sorta final arbiter of good/bad behavior.

i didn't comment then, but when you follow that with this grudges-are-fun thread, i haveta call "evil" on that.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:07 AM on June 16, 2003


Hmmm.. y2karl has effectively shut me down, I'm leery of further commentary because he's right, I'm clearly moderating this thread (it's become jonson focused, which wasn't the goal, honestly). I will close with this reminder: all the list is, at heart, is a link to things people have said, with a sentence (or sentence fragment) of commentary by me. I'm not making up lies about people, I'm not photoshopping images of them molesting children, I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths. I didn't make anyone type the things they typed, I just linked to them, with a tiny bit of commentary that clearly needs to be taken with a grain of salt, as this thread has proven that I am hardly the arbiter of either good or bad behavior!
posted by jonson at 8:24 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson, as said before, is the new Miguel.
posted by 111 at 8:32 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson, you don't hate Joe Jackson, do you?
posted by soyjoy at 8:37 AM on June 16, 2003


I will close with this reminder: all the list is, at heart, is a link to [of the stupidest] things [I could find when it's ] people [I don't like who] have said [them], with a [gratuitously mean spirited] sentence (or sentence fragment) of commentary by me. [Just kiddin'--remember I'm lovable and harmless 'cause I just said so. Gotta get that last moderating lick in because I want to make myself look good.. to myself, at least]
posted by y2karl at 8:58 AM on June 16, 2003


Last worditis is catching apparently.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:02 AM on June 16, 2003


Just wanted to moderate the moderator, thank you.
posted by y2karl at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2003


If there's anything this site needs, it's an automated enemies list-maker. That way, we could just join together in ideological tribes to wage war on a common enemy.

What a brilliant idea.

Jonson, don't you have any friends with a drug habit, or a bad relationship to gossip about instead of the puerile hero worship/finger pointing that goes on in your profile?
posted by SweetJesus at 9:12 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson, your user page is outrageous, egregious, preposterous and fails to mention my name. I'm shocked and appalled.
posted by timeistight at 9:17 AM on June 16, 2003


jonson, as said before, is the new Miguel.

Now THAT is ridiculous.
posted by Shane at 9:27 AM on June 16, 2003


Another conceivably fun thread turned into another Mefi pissing match. You're all on my damn list form here on in ; )
posted by Shane at 9:30 AM on June 16, 2003


Shane, didn't you know? these showers are pure comedy gold as long as they are in context:

Part of the amusement of Mefi isn't just the content, ...seriously, these pissing matches would be more entertaining if we had some context in which to place them, historically.
posted by danOstuporStar at 9:40 AM on June 16, 2003


Sweetjesus: Called jonson puerile [missed my chance, dammit!]. Must kill him.
posted by y2karl at 9:57 AM on June 16, 2003


I'm not making up lies about people... I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths.

Except, of course, when you did just that to me. Twice. Whilst in the process of, how did you say it up there? Oh, right: with a "comment where one user will attack another not based on anything they've said in the current thread." So I guess it's this very MeTa thread you created that "makes us think we're talking about that."

I had already tried to talk to Matt about that privately, and as such I wanted to end it and not make this seem personal, but I guess, yeah, I'm sort of inclined to address your sudden desire to question everyone else's attitude here. Sorry to everyone if I sound petty now, but I assure you I'm not going to address the points jonson raised here outside of this thread.

I've taken the fact that I'm on your shit list with a light heart, but I think the reason so many people here are showing indignation to your topic of choice, jonson, is that it reeks of self-righteous hypocrisy. You're asking if we can all get along and end the petty grudges in the context of reminding everyone how you're one of the most well-known arbiters of petty grudges and lingering reminders of what someone did that you didn't like.

My point is that I think a lot of people are calling you on this simple concept: if you truly think that there's too much petty grudges and lingering resentment on MetaFilter, then maybe the first thing you should do isn't bring it to MetaTalk, but rather stop doing it yourself.

I'm not trying to raise malice against you, but y2karl really does have a point here- it feels like the only reason you made this thread was to validate your own user page. Everyone here has various opinions about various people. You're the one who wants to make them the element that defines you.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 10:02 AM on June 16, 2003


I CAN TURN MY TOES UNDERNEATH MY FEET AND WALK ON THEM AND I WILL KILL YOU ALL.
posted by bargle at 10:09 AM on June 16, 2003


This thread makes me want to edit my user page appropriately. I must work on this while I watch Miami Vice and eat my tasty lunch.
posted by bargle at 10:10 AM on June 16, 2003


I WILL KILL YOU ALL.

HE will destroy you, bargle.
posted by Shane at 10:15 AM on June 16, 2003


If you can't own up to what you write, and can't stand when people remember you for it, don't write it in the first place. There's no reason to make jonson, or anyone else, feel bad for it.
posted by crunchland at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2003


why do people think that's it ok to tell everyone to be nice. what's so good about nice?

niceness is for old, toothless fools and children.

nice is adverts on american teevee.

thank god for unpleasantness. you're all slowly dying, rotting from the inside out, living in a vicious, cruel, little world. admit it, look it in the eye, and give it the finger. screw niceness. live - and feel the pain of it all - while you still can.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:47 AM on June 16, 2003 [1 favorite]


XQUZYPHYR: Finally someone summed it all up (as there were several versions further up the thread, but only yours seemed to capture it all). Well done.
posted by Witty at 10:50 AM on June 16, 2003


You people can dish it out but can't take it. I feel no sympathy whatsoever.

But that's the way of the Mefi, and no one can withstand it.
posted by konolia at 12:04 PM on June 16, 2003


Witty: XQ&c. is hardly an impartial judge. He has every reason to dislike jonson and his list, as he admits (cleverly bringing up things outside of this thread before announcing he won't address things outside of this thread). Obviously, anyone slagged on jonson's user page isn't going to like it. For the rest of you:

I don't agree with andrew cooke about life in general, where I highly approve of niceness, but he's got a point about MetaFilter (and especially MetaTalk). This isn't a "nice" place; that doesn't mean it's OK to turn everything into a flame war, but sniping and snarking and even pointless insults are part of the culture of the place. If you can't take the heat... well, you know the rest. Having no personal stake in it, I find jonson's page funny and original (I mean, come on: "Miguel - Started a Meta thread to debate whether he was dominating his own Mefi Post" is funny! -- and not anti-Migs, just descriptive). And he's quite right that it isn't a nasty list of grudges; I just did a rough count and got 10 positive, 8 negative, 16 mixed or uncategorizable. You would probably get different numbers, but there's no way it's anything resembling a hate list.

But, jonson, it's really not a good idea to bring it up yourself and threaten to put people on it, even jokingly. Just let it sit there and anybody who wants will visit. And those of you who think it's awful and disgusting and inhuman? Don't visit.
posted by languagehat at 12:07 PM on June 16, 2003


I nominate languagehat for the post of Voice of Reason for the month of June.
posted by COBRA! at 12:23 PM on June 16, 2003


After reading this thread where irony and hypocrisy is abound, it explains a lot about how wars are started so easily...
posted by jmd82 at 12:40 PM on June 16, 2003


XQUZYPHR: I realize your need to defend yourself from jonson, but I will always remember the mistake you made. I can't help it. In the world of MeFi people are only what they write and how they respond to what has been written. For a long time I often enjoyed your posts, but your recent actions were %100 uncalled for. If you'd like us all to just forget and forgive you, well, it ain't gonna happen. MeFi is a community that works through reputations and only you can control your reputation. unfortunately you chose to sacrifice your reputation to make a cheap shot at another community member. You, and those like you, are why I have a private email for MeFi and why I stay guarded about my profession. I can't trust you, it's as simple as that.

I don't mean to single you out, there are others whom I've watched do horrible, stupid things and I read their comments with a grain of salt. MeFi has its share of petty moralizers who wouldn't think twice about attacking other users on a personal and sometimes "real world" level. I like being here for the commentary, but I've also taken steps to defend myself from people who should probably be working rather then running through threads like a Meta-Highlander looking to whack off a couple heads.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:45 PM on June 16, 2003


languagehat is pretty much right but he's been a bit too much of a scold lately to be nominated for voice of reason any time soon. Mini-Nurse Ratchet, maybe...

If jonson stuck to being clever on his user page where people can't talk back, he'd be safe. If he didn't make fun of people on his user page, he'd be safer taking shots here where they can. He tried to have it both ways and it blew up in his face. I got annoyed when he started spinning after he started to get heat. Nobody tied him to a log--he walked into the buzzsaw. It was as dumb a post as any Miguel's caught hell for making. That said, I agree: pile on's over for me.
posted by y2karl at 12:46 PM on June 16, 2003


Elwood: That problem isn't unique to Metafilter. Anyone who is outspoken and identifiable on the Internet runs the risk of pissing off a kook who goes after their job or any other perceived personal vulnerability. I think I've had it happen on three mediums -- BBSes, online services, and the Internet.
posted by rcade at 12:56 PM on June 16, 2003


If jonson stuck to being clever on his user page where people can't talk back, he'd be safe.

There's always e-mailing jonson or crying to daddy matt
posted by jmd82 at 1:06 PM on June 16, 2003


rcade: You're right, the problem is far from exclusive to Metafilter. It may be an effect of my own expectations, but I'm more disapointed when I see that kind of behavior here.
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:08 PM on June 16, 2003


He has every reason to dislike jonson and his list, as he admits (cleverly bringing up things outside of this thread before announcing he won't address things outside of this thread).

languagehat: You misunderstood me there slightly: by "not addressing things outside this thread," I meant what I was saying in this thread re jonson's FPP. I was trying to say that I'm giving my opinion about grudges here, I'm not planning to carry any grudges past the thread about grudges, and hopefully anyone with a grudge against me does the same.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:53 PM on June 16, 2003


Just to clarify my position, I couldn't care less about jonson's user page... I just though the X-man made some good points. This whole topic is kinda weird though, I agree.
posted by Witty at 1:57 PM on June 16, 2003


I'm not planning to carry any grudges past the thread about grudges
From XQetc's user profile: "XQUZYPHYR is a proud member of "jonson's Shit List (TM)." First just pretty left-wing, now a complete and utter prick."

So, are you gonna' step up to the plate and remove that little grudge when this thread is over with?
posted by jmd82 at 2:05 PM on June 16, 2003


You know what, jmd, you're right. It's gone.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 2:13 PM on June 16, 2003


Please don't get rid of your ready-made reply phrases, XQ. they're hilarious.
posted by PrinceValium at 2:15 PM on June 16, 2003


my dad drives a hot rod.
posted by mcsweetie at 2:34 PM on June 16, 2003


As one with much cause to be familiar with jonson's penchant for "petty grudges" (let's see how long it takes him to trot out his tired—and false—claim that I have denbested from MeFi twice this time), I find his—of ALL people!—having started this thread hilarious, and tremendously ironic. Bravo to those of you with the sense to recognize what he is doing and to call him on it.
posted by rushmc at 2:54 PM on June 16, 2003


Hey rush, welcome back! We sure did miss you!
posted by jonson at 3:19 PM on June 16, 2003


If you can't own up to what you write, and can't stand when people remember you for it, don't write it in the first place. There's no reason to make jonson, or anyone else, feel bad for it.
Amen to that.
posted by dg at 3:23 PM on June 16, 2003


Can we mention Hitler and get this thread over with?
posted by konolia at 3:41 PM on June 16, 2003


High school.

Imminent demise of Metafilter predicted. Again.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:05 PM on June 16, 2003


stavrosthewonderchickenlittle?
posted by eddydamascene at 5:11 PM on June 16, 2003


You just don't understand how punk rock jonson was being.
posted by NortonDC at 6:04 PM on June 16, 2003


so do y'all reckon the golden age of metafilter is over?
posted by mcsweetie at 6:05 PM on June 16, 2003


Can we mention Hitler and get this thread over with?

Not even close, Dreamsickle konolia. Godwin’s Law goes into effect only if I say the person I’m arguing with is a Nazi. I referenced the Nazis with regard to our newly elected government, which has brought death and destruction upon all our heads. That doesn’t count.

posted by CitiMaus at 8:10 AM PST on April 14
posted by MzB at 6:10 PM on June 16, 2003


And I'm still waiting for Jonson to come back to #mefi!
posted by RunsWithBandageScissors at 6:28 PM on June 16, 2003


Goddamn that jonson. He ruins everything.
posted by jonson at 6:50 PM on June 16, 2003


Godwin’s Law goes into effect only if I say the person I’m arguing with is a Nazi.

Okay, I'm game.

Who wants to be the Nazi?
posted by konolia at 7:03 PM on June 16, 2003


Who wants to be the Nazi?

Sounds like Weimar Reality Television.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 7:04 PM on June 16, 2003


Who wants to be the Nazi?

* places a gold star on the coats of certain users. *

* hides behind joke excuse. *
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:13 PM on June 16, 2003


jonson is teh sux0rz
posted by eyeballkid at 7:19 PM on June 16, 2003


danOstuporStar, come on down...you're our NEW NAZI!
*audience cheers*
posted by konolia at 7:21 PM on June 16, 2003


Who wants to be the Nazi?
amberglow.
posted by quonsar at 7:33 PM on June 16, 2003


Godwin's law
posted by konolia at 7:38 PM on June 16, 2003


fuck you too q! ; >

(i love a man in uniform, but not ever ever a nazi one...)
posted by amberglow at 7:51 PM on June 16, 2003


Synopsis: crunchland develops obsessive-compulsive pileon disease re y2karl FPP experiments and morphs into personal y2karl pastel suited jackal. Will Cross Street To Be Asshole Because He Cares So Much About Site Owner's Original Vision Yeah Right As If. Sanctimony ensues.

Yesterday crunchperpetualbonerfory2karlideefixeland expresses wish re Miguel leaving and y2karl wishes crunchland same.

2day jonson steps in St. y2karl and EvilDevilcrunchland and makes clever post built upon last shot fired and... y2karl whacks jonson! Prior sufferers of stress of jonson regard take y2karl whack in vain as greenlight and pile on ensues. crunchland develops case of mass sympathy for jonsonasvictimofy2karl assisted pileon. Sanctimony ensues.

Ad hoc groups form around the friend of my enemy is my enemy corollary to the enemy of my enemy is my friend and vice versa yada yada and there's blood in the piranha tank. KEGGER!!!

TskTsk suggestion made: Hey we need new blood: let's open up rolls to LGF 5th column assholistas with MidasMulligan sized chips on shoulder... yeahthat'stheticket!!

Meanwhile, John Tefteller discovers hitherto unseen Charley Patton photograph in Grafton WI last year and greedy mofo recently puts it for sale as poster @ 40fuckin'$a pop. Why I never!
[Roseanne Roseannadana] Like My Dear Old Ass Hat Always Used To Say: ''Roseanne Roseannadana, my little carbuncle-ee, you know it's always some fuckin' thing or another...[/Roseanne Roseannadana]

posted by y2karl at 7:55 PM on June 16, 2003 [1 favorite]


*head explodes*
posted by dg at 8:03 PM on June 16, 2003


Addendum: Somewhere in middle of feeding frenzy languagehat steps in between y2karl and jonson-now-with-crunchlandhandupbutt-sockmonkey-demon-as-perceived-by-y2k to pour oil upon troubled waters and y2karl whacks languagehat.

Omigod, I killed LanguageG! You Bastard!

15 yards unnecessary roughness.

Da Capo. Rinse. Repeat.
posted by y2karl at 8:04 PM on June 16, 2003


The hell?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:11 PM on June 16, 2003


now that's meta. but, dude, Godwin was been invoked.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:11 PM on June 16, 2003


was been?

*checks if any of those dg head shards will plug the hole in own head*
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:14 PM on June 16, 2003


so that's what a dissociative fugue looks like.
posted by crunchland at 8:15 PM on June 16, 2003


*refrains from mentioning hot-linked image above, assuming that appropriate permission has been obtained*
posted by dg at 8:50 PM on June 16, 2003


Wow. Best. Thread. Ending. Comment. Ever. I now have a crush on y2karl.

*checks petty grudge list, erases*
posted by elwoodwiles at 9:06 PM on June 16, 2003


So, y2karl, all I'm asking is: why do you hate crunchland so much? if only there were some sort of computerized tracking tool to help store and analyze grudges... ;-)

Thanks to all who contributed to this train wreck, it has provided much amusment/distraction/self-reflection, and really, isn't that all any of us can ask?
posted by jonson at 9:26 PM on June 16, 2003


See? Thats why y2karl is on my crush list!
posted by vacapinta at 9:28 PM on June 16, 2003


Crunchland would secretly love to be crushland.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:53 PM on June 16, 2003


Sadly enough, It's going to take 9 more MeTa posts to knock this one off the front page. Migs, do your dirty work.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:25 PM on June 16, 2003


I love ALL you crazy motherfuckers.
posted by padraigin at 10:27 PM on June 16, 2003


Ufez, I've done my part. Hey! I got #3333, which is exactly half a stutterer's Sign of the Beast!
posted by wendell at 10:44 PM on June 16, 2003


9 More MeTa posts, coming up:

1. Is it OK to capitalize lower-case handles in mid-sentence (e.g. "I often enjoy Quonsar's posts"?

2. Is it cowardly to capitalize them at the beginning of sentences: "Quonsar's posts - now there's something I often enjoy."

3. Will quonsar, as it were, fly off the handle if I mention Quonsar in 9 MeTa posts?

4. Why did Matt delete my MeTa post about whether one should write MeFi or Mefi, MeTa or Meta?

5. Would it be offensive if jonson were known, from now on, as Johnson?

6. What about Lyndon?

7. And Baines?

8. Just how many Ufezes are there out there?

9. What is the difference between a johnson and a jones?

Will this do, UJ?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:49 PM on June 16, 2003


Crunchland? It's his constant erection.
posted by y2karl at 11:14 PM on June 16, 2003


Now, jonson--why do you hate rushmc so much, hmm? I've taken a couple of whacks at crunchland but he's till got me lapped comment for comment. You pile on rushmc endlessly and gratuitously. It's not a pretty sight.
posted by y2karl at 11:22 PM on June 16, 2003


jonson, I [heart] your list. How can I get on it? If I buy you a pony, can I be on it?
posted by dazed_one at 12:13 AM on June 17, 2003


Best. Apology. Ever. My crush on y2karl is now restored.

*checks petty grudge list, erases*

Why did Matt delete my MeTa post about whether one should write MeFi or Mefi, MeTa or Meta?

Don't be complaining about that, MiGs. It's saved you even more petty abuse. When I saw that post gone, I thought "Hey, Miguel isn't teacher's pet after all; if his dumb threads get deleted like any normal MeFite's, I guess I can ease up on the poor bastard." So count your blessings, you expansive Lusitanian, you.
posted by languagehat at 8:31 AM on June 17, 2003


funny how capitlisation or otherwise of initial letters of usernames can become part of the name. personally i think it is up to the poster whether they capitalise other people's usernames or not, miguelcardoso.
posted by mokey at 12:18 PM on June 17, 2003


QuonsarQuonsarQuonsarQuonsar.

Nice!
posted by konolia at 2:20 PM on June 17, 2003


q: "mommy, what's a 'konolia'?
a: "honey, konolia is the soggy lumpen mass that's left after you put out a bunnyfire."
posted by quonsar at 2:51 PM on June 17, 2003


From The ObfuscaCrank Dictionary

Dr. Whoopiecushion Quonsar Weinerbutt
© 2036 C.E. New Waco, Mars
posted by y2karl at 3:03 PM on June 17, 2003


Did you forget to take your happy pills today, quonsar?
posted by timeistight at 3:33 PM on June 17, 2003


why no! are you mistaking my hilarious jibe at konolia for a nasty barb?

oh, wait. this is metatalk. of COURSE you are!
posted by quonsar at 3:41 PM on June 17, 2003


No, quonsar is always on the happy pills.

Imagine how cranky he'd be without them.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:42 PM on June 17, 2003


You people are still here?

Oh well. I think konolia and quonsar should merge:

Quonolia®: serving all your snark needs since 2:51pm!
posted by elwoodwiles at 4:10 PM on June 17, 2003


*gobbles another fistful of happy pills*
posted by quonsar at 4:16 PM on June 17, 2003


Hey! No drugs in here! (not unless you have enough for everyone)
posted by dg at 4:21 PM on June 17, 2003


I hear that konolia is mighty low in cholesterol.
posted by Mid at 5:16 PM on June 17, 2003


For some reason, I'm really tempted to think of Harriet the Spy here....

(Amazon review, another review, I promise, it's not a total non-sequitor...)
posted by namespan at 6:36 PM on June 17, 2003


Konolia was my grandmother's name. She very well could be a soggy lumpen mass, for all I know, but only because she's been dead for about 30 years.
posted by konolia at 6:36 PM on June 17, 2003


For some reason, I'm really tempted to think of Harriet the Spy here....

"IF MARION HAWTHORNE DOESN'T WATCH OUT SHE'S GOING TO GROW UP TO BE A LADY HITLER."

There you have it. Godwin and Mefi.
posted by Shane at 6:51 PM on June 17, 2003


*steals happy pill while quonsar is distracted by soggy lumpen mass*
posted by elwoodwiles at 7:00 PM on June 17, 2003


"<Insert MeFi Denizen Here> REMINDS ME SOMEWHAT OF PINKY WHITEHEAD BUT HE'S NOT NEARLY AS REPULSIVE..."

Harriet should have had a blog.
posted by namespan at 7:46 PM on June 17, 2003


So, jonson--when are you going to answer my question?
posted by y2karl at 9:39 PM on June 17, 2003


Privately, and via email, I thought I already did... feel free to write me back if you want further detail, I'll share with you some of the delightful messages she has sent me - pure comedy gold. The more I re-read them, the more I am convinced that michael rush is the funniest woman working in comedy these days. While I don't have a blog, if I did, the rush letters would occupy a large portion of it, for they are sheer unintentional comedic genuis, full of pseudo threatening phrases like "You were warned!" and "I'll outlast you!!" Ah, bless her soul, she does make me laugh. And since you've asked, I also wrote a letter to XQ, apologizing to him - his argument above makes sense, there's no need to taunt him in mefi for what he did. Maybe I just need to chill the fuck out. Despite what a number of people here think, the list IS just intended to be an amusing joke. Oh well.
posted by jonson at 10:42 PM on June 17, 2003


And for the most part it is--so just jot your little experience here down as a case of fuck with the bull, get the horn and trampled in the stampede. (Ya shoulda stuck with fucking the dog and selling the pups, I tells ya!)
posted by y2karl at 11:57 PM on June 17, 2003


Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
posted by signal at 6:36 AM on June 18, 2003



Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum
.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:05 AM on June 18, 2003


signal, google wants to know: "Did you mean: Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate?"

PettyGrudgeFilter

Well, you asked for it ...
posted by walrus at 7:13 AM on June 18, 2003


Donde es la biblioteca.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:36 AM on June 18, 2003


La biblioteca esta en la plaza. Los locos estan a Metafilter.
posted by konolia at 8:00 AM on June 18, 2003


I've developed a petty grudge against this thread! It's like Jason in the Friday the 13th series.
posted by jonson at 8:58 AM on June 18, 2003


you'll have to put this thread on your list now, jonson.
posted by soyjoy at 9:17 AM on June 18, 2003


jonson, I don't get it -- I thought rushmc was a guy...I even saw a picture of him from one of the meetups. Feel free to email me if you don't want to share publicly.
posted by ashbury at 9:28 AM on June 18, 2003


More of a woman trapped in a man's body, to be clear. She prefers to be thought of as female, at least, until the operation goes through.
posted by jonson at 9:45 AM on June 18, 2003


Jonson, not only do you step in it gleefully, but you track it in every room of the house. Cannot wait till rushmc sees this.

No snark intended. I'm just a curious onlooker.
posted by konolia at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2003


OK, jonson - are you using 'femaleness' as a put-down? Now, I know you like women - what gives?? Seriously?
posted by widdershins at 11:16 AM on June 18, 2003


jonson, up to now I haven't been offended by your user-page comments, or the idea of your user page comments, but I really can't believe that you have been hounding XQetc. over his/her misstep, and now, in the wake of all your indignation over that incident, you come up with this?

Please.
posted by taz at 11:26 AM on June 18, 2003


jonson: has an inordinate interest in feuds and grudges; called rushmc a girly-man
posted by timeistight at 11:37 AM on June 18, 2003


Would you people please go back to bashing Miguel? He's used to it.
posted by Shane at 12:14 PM on June 18, 2003


no. you did. jonson just described the trans-gendered experience. it's all of you ninnies who are reading more into it.

so just jot your little experience here down as a case of fuck with the bull, get the horn

Bull is right, but you're talking about the wrong end.
posted by crunchland at 12:14 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson just described the trans-gendered experience. it's all of you ninnies who are reading more into it.

Well, there' nothing on Rushmc's blog about the transgender experience, and the ongoing snipefest alluded to above would suggest that they're not exactly close friends who share the intimate details of each other's lives. So, yeah I'm gonna go with the intent being insult.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:30 PM on June 18, 2003


If jonson's description of rushmc as "a woman trapped in a man's body" isn't a childish insult, then it must be a terrible betrayal of confidence, which I find extremely unlikely. I think you're the one at the wrong end of the bull, crunchland.
posted by timeistight at 12:31 PM on June 18, 2003


"Donde es la biblioteca."

Il y a un poisson dans votre bibliotheque.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:38 PM on June 18, 2003


Look, if you people have a problem with Michael's decision to live life as a woman, you need to take it up with him, don't drag me into this. I make no judgements, the fact that he & I don't like each other has nothing to do with the fact that he feels the body he was born into was a mistake of nature, his gender issues are neither here nor there. Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't come up at the meetup - I've heard he's developing visible gynecomastia from the injections.
posted by jonson at 12:39 PM on June 18, 2003


1) Jonson, I normally find you hilarious, but you're being a bit of a dick at this point.

2) Mi aerodeslizador es lleno de anguilas.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:44 PM on June 18, 2003


.
posted by taz at 12:54 PM on June 18, 2003


Num me vexo?
posted by y2karl at 12:56 PM on June 18, 2003


I've developed a petty grudge against this thread! It's like Jason in the Friday the 13th series.
posted by jonson at 8:58 AM PST on June 18


I think jonson is trying to get Matt to delete the thread by filling it with slanderous comments. I hope Matt doesn't fall for it; by and large this is a funny and instructive thread. My 2 cents: delete jonson's latest turds; save thread.

Ceci n'est pas une bibliothèque.
posted by languagehat at 12:56 PM on June 18, 2003


Donde esta la biblioteca.

Los locos estan en Metafilter.

Mi aerodeslizador esta lleno de anguilas.


Ok?
posted by signal at 1:06 PM on June 18, 2003


what if we had the power to turn a frown into a rainbow?

isn't it worth a chance? who's with me?
posted by mcsweetie at 1:08 PM on June 18, 2003


Why must I keep doing this:

Metafilter: I normally find you hilarious, but you're being a bit of a dick at this point.

Understanding I'm part of it, but is everyone just trying to make this a record-length thread now or something?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:11 PM on June 18, 2003


::::Rushmc::::: is a friend and a full-blooded male who, furthermore, knows a thing or two about love.

Jonson: trying to insult or belittle people by calling them what other people are - what have women or transsexuals ever done to you? - is essentially the same as racism. What have you got trapped in your body? Whatever it is, it's eaten your funny bone.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:13 PM on June 18, 2003


And common sense. languagehat is right: this one's a keeper. It's like a pay-per-view of that hiker amputating his own arm.
posted by y2karl at 1:21 PM on June 18, 2003


Rgardless of rushmc's status, Miguel, are you saying that transexuals don't know anything about love, and that to point out that someone is one is belittling and insulting?

If it's true, it's uncool for jonson to have outed rushmc on this forum, but what's more uncool is how narrowminded some of you people are.
posted by crunchland at 1:25 PM on June 18, 2003


Uh, Crunch, Jonson is the one using transexual as an insult, since it appears that no such reassignment is happening. That's what I find offensive.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:37 PM on June 18, 2003


I think jonson is trying to get Matt to delete the thread by filling it with slanderous comments.

I don't understand. It is slander to refer to someone as a potential transsexual? So being transsexual is a negative thing, and you are referring to transsexuals in a negative, biased light?

If we are all open-mined adults who do not discriminate on the basis of sexuality, then how can jonson's comments be slanderous or biased????

::::Rushmc::::: is a friend and a full-blooded male who, furthermore, knows a thing or two about love.

So obviously transsexuals know nothing about love and are not full-blooded? I had no idea you were so biased, Miguel.

You folks are taking it hook, line and sinker.
posted by Shane at 1:38 PM on June 18, 2003


Shane, actually I'm beginning to suspect this is bait to get Rushmc to post again. I'm just a casualty I guess.

*Plays smallest violin for self*
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:43 PM on June 18, 2003


Don't be silly. To call someone a transsexual or a straight man or a lesbian or a straight woman or a gay man or a child or a Christian, when it's patently untrue, is offensive not only because it's untrue but also offensive to transsexuals, straight men, etc. Lies are always insulting.

The "knows a thing or two about love" is a reference to rush's novel-writing skills and to our exchanges on the subject here and via e-mail.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:45 PM on June 18, 2003


I probably just bought myself a new entry on jonson's user page:

shane: claims not to be gay, all evidence to the contrary. is actually transsexual.


Not that there's anything wrong with that.

So, you think rush will flip when he gets here? ; )
Good save, Miguel. Very creative ; )

posted by Shane at 1:49 PM on June 18, 2003


personally, I *heart* rushmc, but OMG, what if jonson is right? that would mean... that would mean...

what would that mean again?

(and miguel, also the poetry)
posted by taz at 1:52 PM on June 18, 2003


I am sure he meant Rushmc is a male lesbian, which would cover quite a large percentage of the males here.

Gimme a break. This is Metatalk, not the Rocky Horror Picture Show. *throws toast*
posted by konolia at 1:57 PM on June 18, 2003


198
posted by Witty at 1:59 PM on June 18, 2003


I am indeed teasing, as far as I know, Michael is enamored of his jewels and has no intention of shedding them. But to those whom I have offended (including former potential jonson allies such as taz, migs, languagehat, pstail, etc), let me say this:

I mean no more offense to women & the transgendered than I have in the past to jews or asians, I'm merely being ridiculous - I mean, come on, were at nearly 200 comments into this absurd train wreck of a thread, who is still taking this seriously? Let's not ascribe too much weight to anything anyone here has said, it's a thread about pettiness, after all.
posted by jonson at 2:04 PM on June 18, 2003


you jerk.
posted by crunchland at 2:06 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson's belittling rushmc by calling him a woman, sissy, fag all rolled up in one is nothing unfamiliar to any of us. We all went to high school with guys like him. This has got to be the most operatic self-immolations I have ever witnessed here. I'm beginning to think that he'll be the last to realize we're watching a swan song in progress.

Upon review--he's still on spin control! Unbelieveable--talk about new dimensions in cluelessness.
posted by y2karl at 2:08 PM on June 18, 2003


*picks up toast off of floor; eats toast*

*imagines rushmc will feeling the need to defend himself, and wondering how it will come across:

"I'm not transsexual, dammit!! How dare you say that!!
...um...not that there's anything wrong with being transsexual. I'm not a homophobe" *
posted by Shane at 2:09 PM on June 18, 2003


Most of you are wretched, but you are holding my attention with this humiliation.
posted by thirteen at 2:11 PM on June 18, 2003


Wow. This thread . . . . Just . . . . . Wow.
posted by ashbury at 2:29 PM on June 18, 2003


um, is it too late to retract my defense of jonson some, oh, 143 comments ago or so?
posted by soyjoy at 2:41 PM on June 18, 2003


come on people! jonson's comment about transexualism above is clearly a joke! i am impressed he has got the strength to maintain levity after this debasement... but please don't let it stop.
posted by mokey at 2:43 PM on June 18, 2003


(Suddenly realizes we're all providing amusement, distraction, and self-reflection, raises fist to sky and screams "nooo! Where did the silly go?"
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 2:47 PM on June 18, 2003


If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. Goddamn that jonson. He ruins everything.
posted by jonson at 2:49 PM on June 18, 2003


My 2 cents' worth as someone who knows and loves jonson and normally thinks he's really funny: I saw the yellow man thread and thought it was quite amusing. I said so in the thread. But - call me sensitive/PC nazi/whatever - personally, I don't think it's funny to demean someone by calling them a woman. It's insulting to women - and it makes the writer look uncommonly immature. For example, jonson, you didn't insult someone in the yellow man thread by calling them Chinese. That would also have been grossly uncool in my book.

OK, all - please remember: we are all much more than the sum of our comments on MetaFilter.

/back to your regular snarkfest/
posted by widdershins at 3:00 PM on June 18, 2003


*hands out sense of humour to those obviously lacking one*
posted by dg at 3:01 PM on June 18, 2003


"Do you know when to stop?"

"I don't stop."

"But what if I want to stop?"

"I don't stop."

"Surely you can't just keep going. You have to stop some time."

"I don't stop."

"I'm not sure I want to do this any more."

"Too late."
posted by brownpau at 3:02 PM on June 18, 2003


"Arnold picked himself up slowly from his spread-eagled position on the icy road, rubbing his knees ruefully. He glanced at the conductor, who was watching him with his hands pressed hard into the small of his back to relieve the pain from his recent exertions."
posted by signal at 3:05 PM on June 18, 2003


I would like to try to persuade you all that jonson is a contentious ass, a narcissistic attention-seeker, and an ego-driven hate-monger who consistently lowers the tone and quality of the site, despite occasionally posting an interesting link...

...but I couldn't do nearly the job that he does himself, so I yield the floor to him.
posted by rushmc at 3:08 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson, you have indeed been a dick ... and I've loved every minute of it. It was creative, and perfectly engineered to bring out the "whah" in all the self-rightious. I salute you, sir.

Of course, I've seen this before. My best friend is an absolute master of the ploy. Dig and dig, with honest smile and clueless disbelief in his own appearance of assholishness. Any of you ever heard of y6y6y6? Seriously, jonson, this was well played.

Why you did it may be a cause for concern. Its obvious that it was for your own amusement, and hence violates the rules of the venue, yada yada. But if many who would jump your shit for that would take a good honest look, they'd begin to wonder at some of their own MeFi behavior in all this brand new light. Either way, I've enjoyed this immensely.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:10 PM on June 18, 2003


Sometimes, however hard you try, everything seems to go wrong.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:12 PM on June 18, 2003


I haven't read this entire thread, but nonethless, I just wanted to say that I like jonson, while I might not agree with all his views, I know he is a nice guy, and that's what matters to me. That is all. :)
posted by riffola at 3:13 PM on June 18, 2003


p.s. For those of you who don't think jonson ever edits his list, try to remember that he labeled y6y6y6 a dick to ignore before you read his list as it currently stands. jonson learned from the master ...
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:17 PM on June 18, 2003


Wulfgar, you are absolutely right, this entire goofy exercise was for my own amusement, and I'm only glad that a few others had fun. Even those (y2k) with the gnashing of the teeth and the disbelief and such hopefully had some entertainment/diversion out of the whole thing. You're also right that this has been a hideous abuse of the rules of the venue, and for that I apologize, as well as for any truly lasting hard feelings to my fellow mefites. And lastly, to the transgendered community as a whole, my most sincere apologies.
posted by jonson at 3:17 PM on June 18, 2003


I win!
posted by Witty at 3:24 PM on June 18, 2003


You know what I hate?

When someone just has to have the last word.
posted by jpburns at 3:26 PM on June 18, 2003


this entire goofy exercise was for my own amusement

Your obsession with belittling rushmc is the elephant in the living room of that press release.

I am curious--what do the women here think of driving by the car wreck of jonson's performance today?
posted by y2karl at 3:33 PM on June 18, 2003


Train wreck, y2k, train wreck. Car wrecks seldom make it past 220 comments.
posted by jonson at 3:40 PM on June 18, 2003


This has been the most bizarre MeTa post I've ever seen. I have mixed feelings though, on one hand, as other commentators have pointed out, this is a result of jonson's comic genius. On the other hand jonson is a dick. This has been quite funny in general, however.

I've been thinking about what I posted about XQUZ..... and just wanted to say I've no grudges against him or anyone else here. I was just making a point about online anonymity that was, well, misplaced.

So, who's next? Will jonson keep playing now that we know what the game is? Or will someone else jump up and insult another member?

On Preview: Oh, hi jonson.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:44 PM on June 18, 2003


You know what I hate?
When someone just has to have the last word.

Yeah, I hate that too.
posted by dg at 3:54 PM on June 18, 2003


"Will jonson keep playing now that we know what the game is? Or will someone else jump up and insult another member?"

Keep your inane questions to yourself, fuckwit.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:56 PM on June 18, 2003


So do I.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:56 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson: self-promoting, third rate troll, now highly impressed with himself, because he's got some attention by being a dick and having a long thread to his name.

don't worry jonson, I'm only joking.
posted by johnny novak at 3:57 PM on June 18, 2003


Oh I should add that I was talking about jonson based on what I know about him outside of MeFi/MeTa. As for things he's said in this thread... sigh all I can say is that there is a nice guy in there somewhere, if you are lucky you've met him, if not, I am sorry.
posted by riffola at 3:58 PM on June 18, 2003


I have mixed feelings though, on one hand, as other commentators have pointed out, this is a result of jonson's comic genius.

Comic genius tends invoke the idea that something's funny or at the very least clever. There's a difference between subtle brilliance and grandiose pleasure in provoking others; Under such criteria I'm sure you could find a lot of people out there in the world who'd consider what Hitler did an example of his comic genius.

Look, konolia asked for it, okay?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 4:05 PM on June 18, 2003


Okay, there is some really out of control shit flinging all over MeTa. A week ago everything seemed really slow and on target, but the past few days have been like monkeys fighting over their own poop. My questions are as follows:

Should someone start a MeTa post about what is going on in MeTa?

Why are people suddenly mobbing around like this?

Does anyone know a good, cheap hostel in San Francisco? I need a vacation.

What do we think Matt is saying to himself when he sees this?

On Preview: Perhaps "genius" is an overstatement, but jonson has done a wonderful job of stirring up the hornet's nest in a way I've not seen before. The whole thread was started about gudges, so jonson starts people fighting like bugs in jars. When the thread dies down he just shakes the jar and everything starts over. I have found some of this quite funny, but I'm often credited with a twisted sense of humor. Thanks for the godwin though! ;)
posted by elwoodwiles at 4:10 PM on June 18, 2003


The whole thread was started about gudges, ...
What does Gudges have to do with this?
posted by dg at 4:24 PM on June 18, 2003


Your obsession with belittling rushmc is the elephant in the living room of that press release.

Oh, c'mon, y2k! I like you, your posts, and the bulk of your viewpoints and causes, but you're getting just a little sanctimonious here. What, does jonson's behavior toward rushmc remind you of your own long stint at obsessively heckling hama7? Following him around like a "metahighlander," I think someone said? You should slow down before someone plays the KettleBlack card in your direction.
posted by Shane at 4:26 PM on June 18, 2003


I am curious--what do the women here think of driving by the car wreck of jonson's performance today?

I think it's funny.
posted by padraigin at 4:39 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson is an ass.
posted by eyeballkid at 4:44 PM on June 18, 2003


jonson is my favorite mefite ever.
posted by eyeballkid at 4:45 PM on June 18, 2003


shut up
posted by eyeballkid at 4:45 PM on June 18, 2003


no you shut up!
posted by eyeballkid at 4:45 PM on June 18, 2003


PettyDrudgeFilter

In other financial news, eyeballkid splits two-for-one.
posted by wendell at 5:06 PM on June 18, 2003


Jonson, a word of advice from one who knows:

Take a break from Metafilter for a week-or maybe a month. It may save you from a worse fate.

There is no fixing this thread, no redeeming yourself no matter what you do or what your intentions really are. The only smart thing to do is put yourself on restriction for awhile before you dig yourself in even deeper.

That is, unless you too wish to be a soggy lumpen mass.
posted by konolia at 5:34 PM on June 18, 2003


On Preview: Perhaps "genius" is an overstatement, but jonson has done a wonderful job of stirring up the hornet's nest in a way I've not seen before.
Then you weren't here for neu or a certain *fire...ohhhh, those were the days of truely insane!
posted by jmd82 at 6:28 PM on June 18, 2003


jmd82, I think bunnyfire is doing much better now.
posted by timeistight at 6:58 PM on June 18, 2003


From what I can see and hear, I too believe that bunnyfire is doing well. Kudos!
posted by ashbury at 7:16 PM on June 18, 2003


There is no fixing this thread, no redeeming yourself no matter what you do or what your intentions really are.

At least until you can provide a user page with a soundtrack by Queen.
posted by y2karl at 7:20 PM on June 18, 2003


Hence why those were the days of the truely insane. I don't think jonson's gonna' get banned. Alas, I am glad to hear that bunnyfire's doing better!
posted by jmd82 at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2003


This is, as has been pointed out before, very, very odd. Some of it has been an out-and-out laugh riot, while other parts have made me think, first, "Hmm. That's a very interesting twist for X", and second, "How did I ever get to the point of knowing so much about X and why I am I still reading about all these people?", and then other parts have brought very smug smiles when I really grok the irony involved and then that makes me remember why I am (reading about all you people).

So, all things considered, good thread.

Best wishes, jonson. And bunnyfire.
posted by yhbc at 8:42 PM on June 18, 2003


Is jonson leaving? Can I still be on the list?
posted by dazed_one at 9:19 PM on June 18, 2003


As riffola well said, jonson is a great guy and a good poster who made a (very) bad judgement call. This, I know about, believe me, being the very worst MeFite in that regard, out-jonsoning jonson by several degrees.

He apologized. That's good enough for me. But, still, he shouldn't have dragged rushmc's name through the mud. Rushmc is a highly intelligent, courageous and liberal-minded poster who tells it like it is - or, at least, as he sincerely sees it. He's very much - to my mind - as much the spirit of freedom and MetaFilter as Matt is. He's also been one of the very few who have challenged Matt's occasional forays into authoritarianism.

Plus, he's funny and wordly and writes very, very well.

Like y2karl - another master poster who I genuinely think is above criticism.

Madamjujujive, plep, and the much-missed mediareport are one of a kind.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:23 PM on June 18, 2003


worldy, I meant - though wordly too, in the best sense.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:24 PM on June 18, 2003


Nobody is above criticism, nor should they be, Miguel.

My two bits : I think this thread (no less its 'subject matter') has been the New Metafilter at its absolute worst, and coming hard on the heels of a few others like it, genuinely makes me embarrassed at the moment to be seen as part of this community.

Still, the pendulum usually swings back. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and quit my bitchin'.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:42 PM on June 18, 2003


Also (before I quit bitching) : this.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:18 PM on June 18, 2003


You make anyone look stupid by cherry picking their comments with no fear of retort... How fearless...

About as fearless as going deep in to the archives of a person's blog and leaving nasty little comments, thinking how clever you are that they will never find them.

If you want to talk about vendettas or pettiness, look no further than yourself. Even though I have, for the most part, stopped posting here at MetaFilter, you still bring up your dislike of me at any chance you get.

Grow up and get off your high horse.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:22 PM on June 18, 2003


A few people around here need to get themselves some fake military ID cards.
posted by dg at 10:28 PM on June 18, 2003


stavros, I want to give you a big sloppy kiss.

This kind of shit has no place here, period.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:35 PM on June 18, 2003


It'll all be better as soon as we start talking about banning Miguel from MetaTalk.
posted by Stan Chin at 10:46 PM on June 18, 2003


About as fearless as going deep in to the archives of a person's blog and leaving nasty little comments, thinking how clever you are that they will never find them.

Example please? I have linked to your ditzy little Chelsea bashing on more than one occasion but I don't believe I ever left a comment anywhere on your blog...

If I did, I may owe you an apology but then there is the possibility someone else signed my name or, worse, you've made this up. Shame on you if you did. Of course, with your deletion policy, you have some wiggle room there...

Or is this like our little email exchange where you told me to fuck off and then complained here--how did you put it? Ah, yes: I do find it amusing that y2karl edits our email exchange down to that and leaves out the curse ridden and derogatory emails he sent me --when in fact I had done no such thing. (I will be glad to supply copies of both sides of that exchange as I still have them--I saved them, knowing your track record of lying here.)

I suppose this is because of my comment with the oxblog link about Clinton bashing. That was a bit unfair but, on the other hand, relevant to the topic...

Oh, and Steve? Since Revenge Of The User Page was one of the topics here--that somehow, after clicking on your cherry picked examples, I came across this?

That said, I was heavy handed and self-righteous with jonson here--I will admit that. The rushmc thing still creeps me out. I don't believe I ever accused hama7 of gynecomastia.

And pardon the obligato, folks, but pick on S&L though I have, I don't make up lies about him.
posted by y2karl at 11:52 PM on June 18, 2003


*yawn*
posted by dg at 12:28 AM on June 19, 2003


I saw a robin today.
posted by namespan at 12:39 AM on June 19, 2003


Madamjujujive, plep, and the much-missed mediareport are one of a kind

Don't you mean three of a kind?

I saw a robin today

I cleaned our guinea pig cage last night.

( Reminded me a lot of this place.)
posted by konolia at 1:27 AM on June 19, 2003


i got legz!
posted by kv at 2:08 AM on June 19, 2003


what do the women here think of driving by the car wreck of jonson's performance today ?

Well since you asked - I had no opinion of jonson before this but now I think he's a huge bore.
posted by Summer at 4:33 AM on June 19, 2003


He apologized. That's good enough for me.

when exactly did the little prick apologize? saying "i'm sorry" while grinning sheepishly, crossing your fingers behind your back and motioning your mother over to give you another blowjob is hardly an apolology.
posted by danOstuporStar at 4:55 AM on June 19, 2003


I have received no apology.
posted by rushmc at 5:18 AM on June 19, 2003


Q: How many jonsons does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: One, but it has to be a pretty dim bulb.

A: One. He puts the bulb in and lets the world revolve around him.

A: Two, one to change the light bulb and the other to tell him to make sure he sticks his fingers in the socket first, to see if the electricity is switched on.

A: None. There never was a light bulb...

A: Two. one to steal a new one, the other to go sell the broken one.

A: None. jonsons can fight in the dark

what? this isn't funny?
posted by danOstuporStar at 5:18 AM on June 19, 2003



i have absolutely no idea what this thread is about but i'll comment anyway.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:34 AM on June 19, 2003


I said HITLER!
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:39 AM on June 19, 2003


I am HITLER!

jonson is my houseboy, goebbels. screw that socket boy. let the light shine.
posted by danOstuporStar at 5:47 AM on June 19, 2003


A: One, but it has to be a pretty dim bulb.

What does that say about the dim bulb getting screwed?
posted by Shane at 6:04 AM on June 19, 2003


i have absolutely no idea what this thread is about but i'll comment anyway.

May I have your attention, please: sgt. serenity has written a tagline. Please make a note of it.
posted by y2karl at 6:37 AM on June 19, 2003


I just hope you all know we'll never reach 300.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:43 AM on June 19, 2003


The last four or five MeTa threads I've commented on have been deleted. Coincidence? I don't know, but here's crossing my fingers. . .
posted by dgaicun at 7:07 AM on June 19, 2003


two things:
One: ouch.
Two: rushmc, quoting some advice my wise friend plep gave to me yesterday: Non Carborundare Illegitimati
posted by madamjujujive at 7:12 AM on June 19, 2003


i got legz!!!
posted by mcsweetie at 7:26 AM on June 19, 2003


my cats brizzle smells like shizzle.
posted by quonsar at 7:37 AM on June 19, 2003


This thread is really great...

















...for me to poop on.
posted by dogmatic at 7:41 AM on June 19, 2003


Here, for our collective instruction, is a great just-look-at-yourself page, with the added advantage of starting by dissing Matt-is-God.

I've never understood why people react strongly to offenses and, having some experience, I'd like to explain the logic behind not giving a flying fart.

I'll take the liberty to be long-winded, if you don't mind.

Let's say poster X insults you. You don't like, nobody does. But what is the advantage of your responding? None.

Let's assume you're the vindictive type, who would like to get back at X.

The first lesson of the adversarial philosophy is:

1) Anything that displeases your enemy is pleasing.

a) Nothing is more displeasing to him or her than simply ignoring him.

b) The best way of ignoring X is to naturally post a comment which addresses, in good humour, some other aspect of the thread or another poster.

The second lesson is:

2) Your enemy is quite probably expressing a simple opinion. His dislike of you is secondary. So make your dislike of him secondary too.

a) Express your own, but about the matter at hand, not about X. If you must, congratulate him or her for speaking his or her mind. This is always pleasingly annoying.

b) Always be polite. Remember that hundreds of people are reading and that if they are at all interested in a spat between you and X, it's only in a for-fun, roadside-accident, screw-them sort of way.

The third lesson is:

3) Learn to deconstruct offenses and insults to detect the criticism within. Clumsily worded barbs, if duly interpreted, often contain a raw nugget of objective and truthful criticism about you. Imagine the same words as filtered through someone who likes you a lot (a friend, a spouse, a MeFi buddy) and you'll usually find a scintilla of truth.

a) Remember nobody knows anybody here. We're all dealing with each other's words. This makes it quite pure.

b) Consider that you might be expressing yourself lazily or for effect, in fact provoking the kind of reaction from X you now wish to decry.

c) Regard this experience as an opportunity. Here you have unbiased strangers freely giving their opinions on your own opinions and efforts. This alone is worth gold. Do not disparage X for being the loudest of your critics. He or she did, after all, take the trouble to voice his or her contempt. How do you - one lonely individual - know that there's not something in it?

Finally, the fourth lesson:

3) Words here are set in stone; you can't go back and change them. Imagine yourself as a casual lurker, a year into the future, and how important this potential little spat will seem to you. Not at all, right?

a) When you feel like reacting to an insult; ask yourself if X is worth the time you'll spend reacting.

b) Use your time to praise someone whose contribution you've enjoyed or to make a positive contribution of your own.

Always remember that this is a community. Your main duty is to that community, not to member X or Y. Your second duty is to honestly represent your opinions. Those who insult you, in their clumsy or elegant way, are very probably carrying out those two duties to the best of their knowledge and ability.

If they're just out to insult you - well, they're just not worth worrying about.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:09 AM on June 19, 2003 [1 favorite]


Migs, as is often the case, very insightful commentary. I'd given up on commenting here yesterday afternoon, but you've given me much to think about. I've mentioned that this thread was largely me being outrageous for my own amusement, which is silly, and for which I have genuinely apologized, but there actually is plenty to reflect upon in here, and for that, perhaps as ugly as it is, the thread will serve as a horrible example of the nature of how grudges function in online communties, or perhaps just this online community.

P.S. Miguel, while your commentary was helpful, I couldn't get the article you linked to to load, is there a typo in the URL?
posted by jonson at 8:18 AM on June 19, 2003


Jonson: thanks, mate. The link works for me: http://scourcritical.23degrees.org/people.shtml.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:23 AM on June 19, 2003


If you must, congratulate him or her for speaking his or her mind.

How Dr. Phil instructs responding to negative feedback: "Thank you for caring enough to share. I will weigh your opinion carefully."
posted by debralee at 8:24 AM on June 19, 2003


http://scourcritical.23degrees.org/people.shtml

Nope. Doesn't work for me either. Can you give us a bigger hint about the content?
posted by soyjoy at 8:33 AM on June 19, 2003


Umm, soyjoy, only if you stop bringing up Joe Jackson. Apologies to all for my copying and pasting:

"matt_ISGOD; this person has no regard to public decency. He holds no respect for anybody. People like this kid should just drop dead. Doesn't he realize that nobody wants him around? It's like some sort of retarded game to him. What a moron!

demon_master; this person is the kind of person that complains about projected release windows and their inability to always be correct. I think it would be better if Blizzard just didn't announce a release window so they could never be wrong! What an idiot.

bump artists; I HATE these people, they bump their post because nobody wants to reply. Then they keep bumping them until a whole bunch of people reply to it. If their post didn't suck and wasn't overdone, then people would want to reply to it. There's no reason to bump ever, goddamn retards.

AngryTom; Man this guy posts on forums complaining about them, when he doesn't even HAVE to be there. If he doesn't like it he should just leave! What an a-hole!

honoranddeath@; man this dude's been around for like three weeks and has more posts than I've made in a year! This guy is only concerned about his post count. He argues everything and if you don't completely agree with him you're a moron! He does stuff for shock value alone.

Lord-Temujin; dude this guy a least tries to be nice and helpful, but it seems like he asks questions to get noticed. He seems to want people to think he's intelligent and always thinking. He also argues like there's no tomorrow. Man I just found out, he steal the stuff I say and copies and pastes it. What the hell? I guess imitation is the best form of flattery. He must know I kick ass!

Anybody who wants a fansite kit for a Blizzard game fansite. They just want a beta spot! They want somebody else to do all the work for them so they only have to do minimal stuff. How lame! Earn the beta spot, don't mod a site, good god.

Fabula; man what a complete loser. This person totally bashes the pvp system for world of warcraft, and it ISN'T EVEN OUT YET! This person is a disgrace to humanity.

AaronJade; hahahaha man i don't know if this person is joking or what. He thinks Blizzard games are offensive or sexually suggestive. Man who gives a shit, if you are that fucking scared of being offended move to a country that's underdeveloped and speaks a language you can't understand. Hell, the only way this couldn't work out is if cave paintings offended you. Get with the times loser!

Anybody who posts about having a certain number of posts. These people are complete idiots. If you want to have an ontopic discussion and ALSO say that you have blank many number of posts, that's ok, but I'd rather not see any posts about this at all. It's just goddamn retarded.

thornn; pfff what a loser, starts telling me how an american company should devote all their time to a country that they've already decided to devote some of their time to! Jesus christ what an idiot!

Mck_pl; same as above, also a dedicated loser.

idonahu; this person is a compete fucking loser. He/She breaks the word filter and then tells people how to do it. Complete idiot.

x_Daemon_X or may have been Kerrigore; this person also breaks the word filter on site that young kids go to, and then does it just to show off that she can, so people will ask so she can look cool, etc. Also complains about particular words that are filtered / unfiltered, and then asks blizzard to POST A LIST OF FILTERED WORDS. Yeah that'll fucking happen. *sigh*

Spell_breaker; trust me, just a complete loser slash moron.

Bluebones; ah yes the kid who quotes my site on battle.net. Stupid move. I dont bring this to the forums and neither should he. If I wanted people to see this I'd say it there. Linking is different. Though I wouldn't want anybody but myself linking to this site.

zetablade; 14 year old outwar spamming stupid sack of crap. Should drop dead. Thinks he knows what's up, but never has and never will. One of those kids that will end up at mcdonalds when he's 40. (fast food chains is not a bad thing for teenagers, etc, because that's called an opporunity, not your career haha).
2003 vs40fresh :: scourcritical.23degrees.org:: vs40fresh@23degrees.org "
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:39 AM on June 19, 2003


jonson, now that you're being all grown up and everything, perhaps you'd like to apologize to rushmc? As far as I can see, he's the only one in this train wreck who actually deserves one.

...did Miguel say something?...
posted by languagehat at 9:22 AM on June 19, 2003


soyjoy, only if you stop bringing up Joe Jackson.

oops.
posted by soyjoy at 9:30 AM on June 19, 2003


Michael Rush, you & I have had a number of ugly email exchanges that no one here has read, but within the context of this thread, I accused you of being a pre-operative transexual, and having gynecomastia, which was an outrageous lie (although only truly slanderous if you view such things as negatives). I admit, I did this solely for my own amusement, as Wulfgar & yhbc noted, and it was childish, although I won't say it wasn't entertaining. As languagehat has requested it, and I do respect his request, I humbly apologize to you, and to the others here who have been so incensed, including johnny, y2karl, DanO, & rcade. Let's hope no permanent scars are left, as no permanent wounds were intended.
posted by jonson at 10:12 AM on June 19, 2003


What am I, chopped liver?
posted by timeistight at 10:33 AM on June 19, 2003


I just want to say thanks to jonson and everyone for this fun thread, and let's all get together and do it again soon! It will leech vitriol out of the blue like sucking pus from a wound.
(Apologies for that last analogy.)
posted by Shane at 10:43 AM on June 19, 2003


(And feel free to Metatagline that "sucking pus" statement.)
posted by Shane at 10:46 AM on June 19, 2003


Mmm, custard filled doughnut...

Ich bin ein Bismarck!
posted by y2karl at 11:05 AM on June 19, 2003


no permanent wounds were intended
beyond those necessary for the breast augmentation.
posted by quonsar at 11:18 AM on June 19, 2003


To jonson:

1. "rushmc" will do just fine, thanks. I know you know how to use the site nicks that people have selected for themselves, as you do so with the other seven users you reference in the comment I'm responding to.

2. I accept your apology with precisely as much sincerity with which it was offered.

3. I, too, consider the issues of the unprovoked email attacks still open, but also consider them insignificant. You are not the first to send me offensive emails (yours are easily trumped by the "death threat" I once received), though you are the first to not honor my multiple requests to cease emailing me (I have to wonder at your obsession). I don't "do" grudges on Metafilter, as it was my original assessment that they were very much contrary to the wishes of the site owner (not to mention, my own inclination), and although he no longer chooses to reinforce this opinion (to the severe detriment of the site, as I am on record as believing), I prefer to stick with it. I will neither seek you out especially in threads nor go out of my way to avoid your remarks. Post something I find interesting or worth commenting on and I shall respond to it as I would if anyone else had said it. Ideas are so much more interesting than personalities in a context like this.

My opinion of you, I shall keep to myself. One can only wish that you had chosen to exercise the same discretion.
posted by rushmc at 11:32 AM on June 19, 2003


One can only wish that you had chosen to exercise the same discretion.

You and I have never agreed more, and sorry for using your full name, I was merely adding weight to the discussion. You remain rushmc, rest assured.
posted by jonson at 11:40 AM on June 19, 2003


I think it's time for some crazy make-up sex.
posted by Stan Chin at 12:21 PM on June 19, 2003


*sniff*

I love a happy ending.
And look at that! MCRush kept his cool!
posted by Shane at 12:22 PM on June 19, 2003


Well I, for one, am glad that all of the childishness has ended...
posted by jpburns at 12:27 PM on June 19, 2003


I call last post!
posted by jpburns at 12:28 PM on June 19, 2003


I call last post!

You're always calling 'last post,' mr burns. That trick never works.
posted by Shane at 12:34 PM on June 19, 2003


I declare this thread to be the end of negative, pointless attacks on people here in the blue/grey world. And the end of irony, history, and probably of MetaTalk itself.
posted by norm at 12:52 PM on June 19, 2003


*sniff*

I love a happy ending.
posted by Shane at 1:09 PM PST on June 19

OK, that's a wrap!
posted by y2karl at 1:02 PM on June 19, 2003


Yep... that's it. All done. We outta here then?
300 posts is just too hard to ignore.
posted by Witty at 1:06 PM on June 19, 2003


What a soap opera. Are we all that bored with our lives that we must create these petty something-out-of-nothings? That we must follow the storyline as though it's the first year of Survivor? We are ambulance chasers; lawyers at an accident scene; bystanders telling the jumper to jump; the ring of people shouting at fighters for the bloodiest of blood; the children in Lord of the Flies.

Congrats, whoever is next, for being 300.
posted by ashbury at 1:08 PM on June 19, 2003


300!
posted by Stynxno at 1:13 PM on June 19, 2003


We'll never reach 400...
posted by languagehat at 2:12 PM on June 19, 2003


Funny....I hear a sound of a mighty gnashing of teeth...it seems to be coming from the general direction of California...
posted by konolia at 2:19 PM on June 19, 2003


I bet I could get us to 400... ;-)
posted by jonson at 2:29 PM on June 19, 2003


Ah, ah--moderation in all things, including moderating...
posted by y2karl at 2:53 PM on June 19, 2003


I knew 1142 personally, I worked with 1142, and MetaTalk3331, you're no 1142!
posted by wendell at 3:59 PM on June 19, 2003


My god. You people are still here?
posted by padraigin at 3:59 PM on June 19, 2003


*wishes for the last twenty minutes of his life back*
posted by DakotaPaul at 4:03 PM on June 19, 2003


Slow reader?
posted by dg at 4:36 PM on June 19, 2003


I bet I could get us to 400... ;-)

Damn that's tempting. Like an evil sociology experiment ; )
posted by Shane at 4:46 PM on June 19, 2003


Like an evil sociology experiment

Folks, we have another tagline...
posted by y2karl at 4:51 PM on June 19, 2003


Shane, hasn't this whole thread been little more than an evil sociology experiment?
posted by jonson at 5:15 PM on June 19, 2003


*wishes for the last twenty minutes of his life back*

least you have one...

babylon he mash up the scene and he blaming the rastaman !
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:35 PM on June 19, 2003


Funny....I hear a sound of a mighty gnashing of teeth...it seems to be coming from the general direction of California...

That's actually the sound of the server's hard drive, I think, anticipating more comments to this thread.

(on July 2, 8:57 pm, if we are still posting, I predict it will become self-aware...)
posted by namespan at 5:38 PM on June 19, 2003


"My god. You people are still here?"

It's over.

Go home!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:00 PM on June 19, 2003


(puts shim in door so people can sneak back in)
posted by clavdivs at 6:06 PM on June 19, 2003


Shane, hasn't this whole thread been little more than an evil sociology experiment?

Shh! That was my point, but you don't have to advertise it! People will call you manipulative...

posted by Shane at 6:43 PM on June 19, 2003


dear ashbury,

eat me!

love, me
posted by mcsweetie at 9:28 PM on June 19, 2003


Folks... You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here...
posted by jpburns at 4:46 AM on June 20, 2003


You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
posted by norm at 6:39 AM on June 20, 2003


Bring it over, mcsweetie,
then I can love, you.
posted by ashbury at 7:07 AM on June 20, 2003


Sorry I'm late -- had trouble finding a parking place.

Did I miss anything?
posted by webmutant at 1:21 PM on June 20, 2003


Nahh... the book was better.
posted by Witty at 2:01 PM on June 20, 2003


The trailer was cool, tho'....:

"In a world.... full of petty grudges...

One man... must catalog them all...

Or find a way... to get the community/Matt to do it for him.

Jim Carrey is.... MetaJohnson"
posted by namespan at 6:18 PM on June 20, 2003


(I mean MetaJonson)
posted by namespan at 6:19 PM on June 20, 2003


Okay, now a few days have past, the dust has settled, re-read this thread, especially the parts where people say things like "funny", "joking", "amusement", etc, and then read the son_of_minya rape thread from June 20th, and tell me this nonsense was really worth getting all that angry about? Sigh.
posted by jonson at 10:27 PM on June 20, 2003


Still moderating, are we? Man, hook up a generator to this guy's spin. Amour Propre--the new Oil! The Energy Crisis Is Over!
posted by y2karl at 10:59 PM on June 20, 2003


y2karl, this isn't an accusation, but a legit question - your comments outnumber mine in this thread, yours largely express one point of view (jonson is bad), mine largely express an counter point (jonson's just kidding, calm down), and yet, you get to challenge me repeatedly with moderating the thread, and spinning a point of view, etc. Other than the fact that I posted the thread in the first place, how do my 25 comments here differ from your 29 comments here? How are you not guilty of what you're accusing me of (and repeatedly), and how is it in any way fair for you to lob accusation after accusation at me, and always close with "nyah, nyah, can't reply, otherwise you're just moderating!" Doesn't that seem sort of underhanded? I know I should have sent this by email, but I hope by now the number of people bothering with this silly thread is way down.
posted by jonson at 9:08 AM on June 21, 2003


Yeah, jonson, keep stirring that pot.

What a thread. God.

And I mean that with wide-eyed admiration... and with a certain sense of being aghast. On the other hand, I haven't laughed this hard for days; it's like going to the circus. Clowns, performing seals, and lion tamers.
posted by jokeefe at 10:03 AM on June 21, 2003


it's like going to the circus. Clowns, performing seals, and lion tamers.

"My circus train pulls through the night
full of lions and trapese artists
I'm done with elephants and clowns, I want to
run away and join the office."

--Mike Doughty

Will this be the metatalk thread that finally gets people to go back to work?
posted by namespan at 10:56 AM on June 21, 2003


jokeefe - your laughter (and those of others above) are the reason why this thread delights me so. I'm sorry that some are so troubled by it, and that the level of invective (pretty much entirely directed at me) got so high, but I guess that's sort of a risk you take in playing the role of pot stirrer. And namespan: I should certainly hope not!
posted by jonson at 11:35 AM on June 21, 2003


Nope, not saying jonson is bad--and heck, I can count, too--just that jonson is way overly concerned with what people think of him and keeps explaining what a nice guy he is and what a nice thread this is...

If you are a nice guy, fine--the proof's in the pudding.

A pudding which includes the various malign gratuities you have shown rushmc within this thread. *Clears throat* A facile and insincere apology and all cheerful explanations in the world won't change those facts no matter how many words of explanation you add.

Just consider me the slave riding alongside you in your chariot who keeps whispering in your ear, Remember Caesar jonson, you are not a God have been a real jerk here. Pointing out my flaws and past errors won't help you--I would seem to have less problem owning my faults than you have owning yours.

You've gone on much farther than anyone else has in any other self-created debacle of a thread explaining the purity of your motives. Endlessly repeating what a nice guy you really are doesn't necessarily make it so. It just betrays an incredible reservoir of neediness.

You need to think about firing your press agent.
posted by y2karl at 1:48 PM on June 21, 2003


stavros:

Also (before I quit bitching) : this.

You linked to an eloquent, deeply felt and beautifully articulated post that pretty much sums up Mefi, at its best, for me. This post was made originally in a Meta thread that was responding to this post in Mefi, from the fall of 2001. Both are instructive: the original thread, which I give thanks I completely missed at the time, is... well, you all might want to go back and read it to discover how bad things could get around here--rank inanity and juvenile shit disturbing. So:on one hand a comment which reminds us of the best of Mefi, and a thread from the past which is worse than any I've read here before. I'd say on balance that things aren't getting any worse.

kthxbi ~~**~~!!!!!!!!
posted by jokeefe at 2:02 PM on June 21, 2003


poop
posted by Witty at 11:03 AM on June 23, 2003


I wonder if posting rate follows some kind of a poisson distribution....
posted by namespan at 6:48 PM on June 23, 2003


Am I too late to continue the poo flinging?
posted by kaibutsu at 9:49 AM on June 24, 2003


I hate jonson.
posted by UrbanFigaro at 9:46 AM on June 26, 2003


Ah... Figaro. I was wondering when you'd get here.
posted by jonson at 3:48 PM on June 28, 2003


Really? Why? How was I even on your radar?
posted by UrbanFigaro at 11:25 AM on June 29, 2003


Actually I was just kidding - I've never even heard of you. It just seemed like such a silly statement, the blanket hatred of me, that I felt the need to counter, as though this were a Bond movie and you were my nemesis. Sigh... so often things that make me chuckle just lead to more confusion and misunderstanding, as I think this entire thread has proven.
posted by jonson at 2:23 PM on June 29, 2003


Let's face it, jonson--it's because you're an asshole. Why do you have to be an asshole so much?
posted by y2karl at 5:30 PM on June 29, 2003


Ah... y2karl. I was wondering when you'd get here.
posted by jonson at 8:40 PM on June 29, 2003


Wha - ? You've never heard of y2karl, either?
posted by soyjoy at 9:39 AM on June 30, 2003


I am sorry for that remark--I was annoyed with Faze and then you popped in and made you rerun a conflation of the 'scribbles in notebook' and 'why do you hate X?' comments. Considering the fool you made of yourself in regards to rushmc in the why do you hate dept. in this thread, alone, it's an oddly amnesiac rewrite. You got busted for the 'scribbles in notebook' line noted above, too, and yet you recycled it, again... Have you considered the 'being original' approach to clever commentary? Or was this another example of your hamhanded gift at sub-tle-ty?

So, it was another typical jonson passive-aggressive bait and I blew it it by reacting to it here. Your need for attention has been once again been met and now all you need to do is make the last comment for spin control. You'll win in your own mind once more. Then I'll sneak back in and write something later... heh heh.

You'll need to keep the button for this thread on your links bar until the 14th--it's going to be like an ebay auction in the last hour. Who will be the last dog to pee on the porch? There should be a betting pool...
posted by y2karl at 3:59 PM on July 5, 2003


But I LOVE the "why do you hate X so much" comment. It's my go-to, it never fails to make me giggle. I think, fundamentally you view this thread, and most of my interaction on here, as something I'm doing to impress others, which is why you constantly reference the "spinning" or "moderating", when in fact, all of my comments, whether friendly or provocative, are just being done to amuse, and the audience I'm going for? Me.

You take this much too seriously, and so do a few others here. Review this thread, and review my general comment nature, you'll see that other than on my user page, I'm VERY reluctant to say harsh things about others. In fact, other than the goofy "pre-op trannie" crack about rush, I don't believe I've made a single negative comment about anyone in this thread, despite a TREMENDOUS amount of baiting, the vast majority of it from you.

Frankly, I'm shocked to see that your "asshole" comment was even serious. My notebook comment, and the follow up here of "ah, karl, etc" were complete goofs. I don't hate anyone, not even Michael Rush, he & I have chatted in #mefi, we're cool as far as I know.

So, ya got me, Karl. I'm not subtle, I make a fool of myself, etc etc. Upon reflection, I certainly wouldn't change a thing... But you, sir, really need to take this less seriously. I mean, look at yourself. Aside from this running grudge you seem to have with me here (and let's hope it stays confined to this thread, as you have a tendency to take your grudges across multiple threads - see Faze example, above, or crunchland example, above, or hama7 example, above), you seem to have multiple grudges with muliple mefites, they really seem to eat at you.

Let it go, man, it's just fun. No one insulted your grandmother, or stole your pocketwatch. Just a lark, son, just a lark.
posted by jonson at 7:37 PM on July 5, 2003


Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:40:42 -0700
Message-Id: <2 00307061840.aa50462934@capitolhill.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
From: "y2karl @capitolhill.net"
Reply-To:
To: Jonathan Rouse
Subject: RE: http://metatalk.metafilter.com/mefi/3331
X-Mailer:
Status: R
X-UIDL: 296023989

>Hey there Karl, it looks like your obsession with me
>is running unabated...


The obsession seems to be on your part--you are the
one who popped into the Canadian music thread with
your little recycled passive-aggressive bon mot. I
could have given a shit about you before you started
things and then thought it clever to continue them...

>You have a tendency to not let things go, and I'd
>hate to be YET ANOTHER person on your internal
>grudgelist, but if that's the way you want it, let
>me know.


If you had left me alone, I would have nothing to say
to or about you. Whatever my differences are with
other people, they have been worsened by you sticking
your ego into things. You started your little petty
grudge thread with a comment of mine as an example,
taunted me with the Why Do You Hate...? schtick over
crunchland and then pulled the same routine again
about Faze. You're the one who has trouble letting
things go.

Whatever my differences are with anyone, they are not
things I wish to continue or dwell upon--having a
list of grudges is your act, remember?--and, more
importantly, they are none of your business. My
feelings and my relationships with other people are,
to my mind, fodder for the jonson clevernesses. You
won't find many people that disagree with the
concept 'You should mind your own business'.

If you hadn't have used me for an example for your
thread, and hadn't popped in with your little shot in
that Canadian music thread, I would have happily
continued to ignore you just as much as in the past.
If anyone is obsessed, it is you. You have to have
the last word, take the last lick. I just want you to
leave me alone and I will give you the inattention
you deserve.

I don't want to 'take it to email'--I want you to
leave me alone. I would have no differences with you
if you hadn't started fucking with me. I never did
anything to you before this that I can recall. IF I
bruised your ego with a comment somewhere, it doesn't
come to mind.

I don't what gave you the brilliant idea to start a
thread about people's grudges in the first place. It
seems, however, you think very highly of your little
idea--enough to monitor it daily even now.

I do not want you writing me. Should I feel the need
to say anything more to you or about you, I will use
3331 to respond--as I will do if you mention my name
again or hop into another thread to take a little
shot at me. That gives me a week's grace, at least,
and, who knows, maybe you will find another object
for your passive-aggressive wit.

Please do not write me anymore. Come to think of it--
maybe I will save and post this response verbatim in
3331 when MetaFilter comes back online. Controlling
the discussion there seem to mean a great deal to
you.

Cheers,

Karl
---------- Original Message --------------------------
--------
From: Jonathan Rouse
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:09:57 -0700


Just wanted to offer you the option to take it to
email. You have a
tendency to not let things go, and I'd hate to be YET
ANOTHER person on your
internal grudgelist, but if that's the way you want
it, let me know.
____________________________________________

Boy, I didn't see your comment up there until I just checked to see if MetaFilter was back up--boy, you have to come in and spin things so you look good in your own mind every time, don't you?

And take it to another thread?--isn't that what you just did with that shot in the Canadian music thread?
Odd for you to bring up the notion, all things considered.

posted by y2karl at 7:02 PM on July 6, 2003


PS. At least, jonson, here you have just nine days more to monitor and spin--oh it matters so very little to me: that's why I keep coming back and coming back and coming back... to have the last self-flattering word--then you'll have just your light hearted, just funnin' User page where you can take shots at people at your leisure without fear of getting a contrary response or unflattering view of the bloated jonson ego to disguise.
posted by y2karl at 7:39 PM on July 6, 2003


sorry for using your full name, I was merely adding weight to the discussion. You remain rushmc, rest assured.

I don't hate anyone, not even Michael Rush

Ahem.
posted by rushmc at 8:10 PM on July 6, 2003


Wrong again--you just put the last word on your User page already. And with an over-zealous five links! (And I'm the angry one) Oh, well. Hoisted on my petard--serves me right.
posted by y2karl at 8:17 PM on July 6, 2003


D'oh! Sorry rushmc. Accident, I swear.
posted by jonson at 8:18 PM on July 6, 2003


It was an accident, I swear. jonson, you crack me up.
posted by y2karl at 10:00 PM on July 6, 2003


Thanks, man, amusing people is why I come here! As for the name issue, I promise it really was an accident. I didn't mean any insult by saying rushmc's full name, neither the first time, nor the second (after he asked me not to) I had just gotten used to thinking of him by it. Just a slip up, sometimes it happens, but I'll be very careful not to do it again. FWIW, anyone who wants to refer to me by my name in retaliation is more than welcome!
posted by jonson at 10:18 AM on July 7, 2003


That one minute gap between rushmc's comment and your follow up suggests either an always open window to this thread, some scenario ala Sleepless in Los Angeles--*ping* You've got comment!--or some jonsonoid batsignal appearing in the clouds and you jumping in the Spinmobile and roaring off to 3331 for to adjust the jonson self-image for posterity. I mean, you're not doing it for me and who else is bothering to follow this folly? One minute--man, at least we know you care. jonson, you just keep cracking me up.
posted by y2karl at 12:47 PM on July 7, 2003


It's actually 8 minutes (8:10 to 8:18 here in the PST), but you're right, I was checking in fairly often that night. I actually am curious if anyone else is reading this. Clearly you & I, and apparently rushmc checks in occasionally.

Make no mistake, it's not that I don't care about this thread- I mean, hell, I've posted a thousand comments in it by now, it'd be foolish to say it didn't matter to me! I'm just not very angry about it the way you seem to be. Look back at the insults you've spewed out here at me, and then look at what I've said to you to fire up that level of vitriol. Not a single insult, just the thought that you are carrying around a lot of negative energy with you, and that you'd be better off learning to let go. Look back at your reaction to Faze in that other thread, for one, you absolutely flip your lid when he has said or done nothing to deserve it. Or the same reaction in the initial linked comment about crunchland; or even when you come back to call me an asshole. You're spewing a lot of invective, and it can't be healthy.
posted by jonson at 1:17 PM on July 7, 2003


Spinsational and self-flattering as always, my dear fellow. You take something I say to Faze, when we have had a long history of such exchanges, out of context to prove how angry I am. Wow, I am so impressed by the evenhandedness of it all. And unconvinced. Hmmm. Five links on your revenge page. You seem to be the angry one taking things too seriously now. I, on the other hand, have not a care in the world today. Carry on.
posted by y2karl at 9:10 PM on July 7, 2003


Ah, how I wish I could believe you... your lips say "not a care in the world", but your title tags say "simmering grudge that i will drag from thread to thead, and insert completely out of the blue." You call my comments "spin" without refuting their points; your inclusion upon my page simply occurs because I finally know what defines you, at least here on mefi: a series of hate filled grudges that you carry from one user to the next, be it Faze, or hama7 or crunchland or me or dhoyt or whomever is next or whomever I've left out, combined with a powerless inability to let someone else have the last word (for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting). For a man so calm you seem to be carrying a heavy load upon your heart. Unburden yourself, good sir, you'll feel better... let it all out... breathe...
posted by jonson at 9:23 PM on July 7, 2003


combined with a powerless inability to let someone else have the last word

Oh, and like you don't!

Actually, I'm having fun. I've got jonson's number! I've got jonson's number!
posted by y2karl at 10:09 PM on July 7, 2003


But to be fair, here--I'll let you have the last word:

What's weird is, my list is mostly positive, mentions a couple people doing ugly things, and yet generates such a viscerally negative response. Shane's right, it is there for my amusement - I'm sorry it rubs so many the wrong way. I think, sometimes, a caustic sense of humor translates very poorly online, at least I know emails I've seen in the past have had that effect. DanO, I will challenge you on one point - I do go back and edit from time to time - and remember, the user page is the one part of Mefi that ISN'T permanent, unlike the comments made in the blue or gray, things there actually can be changed. Hmmm.. y2karl has effectively shut me down, I'm leery of further commentary because he's right, I'm clearly moderating this thread (it's become jonson focused, which wasn't the goal, honestly). I will close with this reminder: all the list is, at heart, is a link to things people have said, with a sentence (or sentence fragment) of commentary by me. I'm not making up lies about people, I'm not photoshopping images of them molesting children, I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths. I didn't make anyone type the things they typed, I just linked to them, with a tiny bit of commentary that clearly needs to be taken with a grain of salt, as this thread has proven that I am hardly the arbiter of either good or bad behavior! Hey rush, welcome back! We sure did miss you! Goddamn that jonson. He ruins everything. So, y2karl, all I'm asking is: why do you hate crunchland so much? if only there were some sort of computerized tracking tool to help store and analyze grudges... ;-)
Thanks to all who contributed to this train wreck, it has provided much amusment/distraction/self-reflection, and really, isn't that all any of us can ask? Privately, and via email, I thought I already did... feel free to write me back if you want further detail, I'll share with you some of the delightful messages she has sent me - pure comedy gold. The more I re-read them, the more I am convinced that michael rush is the funniest woman working in comedy these days. While I don't have a blog, if I did, the rush letters would occupy a large portion of it, for they are sheer unintentional comedic genuis, full of pseudo threatening phrases like "You were warned!" and "I'll outlast you!!" Ah, bless her soul, she does make me laugh. And since you've asked, I also wrote a letter to XQ, apologizing to him - his argument above makes sense, there's no need to taunt him in mefi for what he did. Maybe I just need to chill the fuck out. Despite what a number of people here think, the list IS just intended to be an amusing joke. Oh well. I've developed a petty grudge against this thread! It's like Jason in the Friday the 13th series. More of a woman trapped in a man's body, to be clear. She prefers to be thought of as female, at least, until the operation goes through. Look, if you people have a problem with Michael's decision to live life as a woman, you need to take it up with him, don't drag me into this. I make no judgements, the fact that he & I don't like each other has nothing to do with the fact that he feels the body he was born into was a mistake of nature, his gender issues are neither here nor there. Frankly, I'm surprised this didn't come up at the meetup - I've heard he's developing visible gynecomastia from the injections. I am indeed teasing, as far as I know, Michael is enamored of his jewels and has no intention of shedding them. But to those whom I have offended (including former potential jonson allies such as taz, migs, languagehat, pstail, etc), let me say this:
I mean no more offense to women & the transgendered than I have in the past to jews or asians, I'm merely being ridiculous - I mean, come on, were at nearly 200 comments into this absurd train wreck of a thread, who is still taking this seriously? Let's not ascribe too much weight to anything anyone here has said, it's a thread about pettiness, after all. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. Goddamn that jonson. He ruins everything. Wulfgar, you are absolutely right, this entire goofy exercise was for my own amusement, and I'm only glad that a few others had fun. Even those (y2k) with the gnashing of the teeth and the disbelief and such hopefully had some entertainment/diversion out of the whole thing. You're also right that this has been a hideous abuse of the rules of the venue, and for that I apologize, as well as for any truly lasting hard feelings to my fellow mefites. And lastly, to the transgendered community as a whole, my most sincere apologies. Train wreck, y2k, train wreck. Car wrecks seldom make it past 220 comments. Migs, as is often the case, very insightful commentary. I'd given up on commenting here yesterday afternoon, but you've given me much to think about. I've mentioned that this thread was largely me being outrageous for my own amusement, which is silly, and for which I have genuinely apologized, but there actually is plenty to reflect upon in here, and for that, perhaps as ugly as it is, the thread will serve as a horrible example of the nature of how grudges function in online communties, or perhaps just this online community. P.S. Miguel, while your commentary was helpful, I couldn't get the article you linked to to load, is there a typo in the URL? Michael Rush, you & I have had a number of ugly email exchanges that no one here has read, but within the context of this thread, I accused you of being a pre-operative transexual, and having gynecomastia, which was an outrageous lie (although only truly slanderous if you view such things as negatives). I admit, I did this solely for my own amusement, as Wulfgar & yhbc noted, and it was childish, although I won't say it wasn't entertaining. As languagehat has requested it, and I do respect his request, I humbly apologize to you, and to the others here who have been so incensed, including johnny, y2karl, DanO, & rcade. Let's hope no permanent scars are left, as no permanent wounds were intended. One can only wish that you had chosen to exercise the same discretion. You and I have never agreed more, and sorry for using your full name, I was merely adding weight to the discussion. You remain rushmc, rest assured. I bet I could get us to 400... ;-) Shane, hasn't this whole thread been little more than an evil sociology experiment? Okay, now a few days have past, the dust has settled, re-read this thread, especially the parts where people say things like "funny", "joking", "amusement", etc, and then read the son_of_minya rape thread from June 20th, and tell me this nonsense was really worth getting all that angry about? Sigh. y2karl, this isn't an accusation, but a legit question - your comments outnumber mine in this thread, yours largely express one point of view (jonson is bad), mine largely express an counter point (jonson's just kidding, calm down), and yet, you get to challenge me repeatedly with moderating the thread, and spinning a point of view, etc. Other than the fact that I posted the thread in the first place, how do my 25 comments here differ from your 29 comments here? How are you not guilty of what you're accusing me of (and repeatedly), and how is it in any way fair for you to lob accusation after accusation at me, and always close with "nyah, nyah, can't reply, otherwise you're just moderating!" Doesn't that seem sort of underhanded? I know I should have sent this by email, but I hope by now the number of people bothering with this silly thread is way down. jokeefe - your laughter (and those of others above) are the reason why this thread delights me so. I'm sorry that some are so troubled by it, and that the level of invective (pretty much entirely directed at me) got so high, but I guess that's sort of a risk you take in playing the role of pot stirrer. And namespan: I should certainly hope not! Ah... Figaro. I was wondering when you'd get here. Actually I was just kidding - I've never even heard of you. It just seemed like such a silly statement, the blanket hatred of me, that I felt the need to counter, as though this were a Bond movie and you were my nemesis. Sigh... so often things that make me chuckle just lead to more confusion and misunderstanding, as I think this entire thread has proven. But I LOVE the "why do you hate X so much" comment. It's my go-to, it never fails to make me giggle. I think, fundamentally you view this thread, and most of my interaction on here, as something I'm doing to impress others, which is why you constantly reference the "spinning" or "moderating", when in fact, all of my comments, whether friendly or provocative, are just being done to amuse, and the audience I'm going for? Me. You take this much too seriously, and so do a few others here. Review this thread, and review my general comment nature, you'll see that other than on my user page, I'm VERY reluctant to say harsh things about others. In fact, other than the goofy "pre-op trannie" crack about rush, I don't believe I've made a single negative comment about anyone in this thread, despite a TREMENDOUS amount of baiting, the vast majority of it from you. Frankly, I'm shocked to see that your "asshole" comment was even serious. My notebook comment, and the follow up here of "ah, karl, etc" were complete goofs. I don't hate anyone, not even Michael Rush, he & I have chatted in #mefi, we're cool as far as I know. So, ya got me, Karl. I'm not subtle, I make a fool of myself, etc etc. Upon reflection, I certainly wouldn't change a thing... But you, sir, really need to take this less seriously. I mean, look at yourself. Aside from this running grudge you seem to have with me here (and let's hope it stays confined to this thread, as you have a tendency to take your grudges across multiple threads - see Faze example, above, or crunchland example, above, or hama7 example, above), you seem to have multiple grudges with muliple mefites, they really seem to eat at you. Let it go, man, it's just fun. No one insulted your grandmother, or stole your pocketwatch. Just a lark, son, just a lark. D'oh! Sorry rushmc. Accident, I swear. Thanks, man, amusing people is why I come here! As for the name issue, I promise it really was an accident. I didn't mean any insult by saying rushmc's full name, neither the first time, nor the second (after he asked me not to) I had just gotten used to thinking of him by it. Just a slip up, sometimes it happens, but I'll be very careful not to do it again. FWIW, anyone who wants to refer to me by my name in retaliation is more than welcome! It's actually 8 minutes (8:10 to 8:18 here in the PST), but you're right, I was checking in fairly often that night. I actually am curious if anyone else is reading this. Clearly you & I, and apparently rushmc checks in occasionally. Make no mistake, it's not that I don't care about this thread- I mean, hell, I've posted a thousand comments in it by now, it'd be foolish to say it didn't matter to me! I'm just not very angry about it the way you seem to be. Look back at the insults you've spewed out here at me, and then look at what I've said to you to fire up that level of vitriol. Not a single insult, just the thought that you are carrying around a lot of negative energy with you, and that you'd be better off learning to let go. Look back at your reaction to Faze in that other thread, for one, you absolutely flip your lid when he has said or done nothing to deserve it. Or the same reaction in the initial linked comment about crunchland; or even when you come back to call me an asshole. You're spewing a lot of invective, and it can't be healthy. Ah, how I wish I could believe you... your lips say "not a care in the world", but your title tags say "simmering grudge that i will drag from thread to thead, and insert completely out of the blue." You call my comments "spin" without refuting their points; your inclusion upon my page simply occurs because I finally know what defines you, at least here on mefi: a series of hate filled grudges that you carry from one user to the next, be it Faze, or hama7 or crunchland or me or dhoyt or whomever is next or whomever I've left out, combined with a powerless inability to let someone else have the last word (for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting). For a man so calm you seem to be carrying a heavy load upon your heart. Unburden yourself, good sir, you'll feel better... let it all out... breathe...


jonson comment selfllessly
posted by y2karl at 10:48 PM on July 7, 2003


(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting)
posted by jonson at 11:28 PM on July 7, 2003


(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting)
posted by jonson at 11:28 PM PST on July 7


This is fun!
posted by y2karl at 11:39 PM on July 7, 2003


(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting)
posted by jonson at 6:42 AM on July 8, 2003


poor jonson--well, there's only six more days of moderation until the Ebay finish at 11:09 next Monday. This is getting to be more fun all the time. You're hooked.
posted by y2karl at 9:40 AM on July 8, 2003


(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting)

you're right, btw, this IS fun. I've never baited someone so successfully or for so long. You kind of make it easy, with the lastworditis, but still, there's some skill involved on my part...
posted by jonson at 11:07 AM on July 8, 2003


ah, but no there there--just narcissism and spin...

I'm being baited? I'm sticking around? As if!

Yoink-dot-adios-backslash-loser
posted by y2karl at 10:58 PM on July 8, 2003


Oh, and skip the predictions--I'm here until the end. Normally, I'd have lost interest ages ago but given your own consuming lastworditis, this annoys you very much. I like that a lot.

Continue with your self-puffery, by all means. I love to watch you make claims about yourself. Insincerity knows no finer exponent.
posted by y2karl at 11:31 PM on July 8, 2003


Normally, I'd have lost interest ages ago - See? That's what makes me so good at this!

(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting)
posted by jonson at 6:58 AM on July 9, 2003


Now you're grasping at straws, trying to convince yourself you da man. Well, you da man no one can trust, that's for sure. Your word is iron pyrite. That you have proven here.

See, you keep coming back and coming back. You can't resist another spin at the spinning wheel!

And I will be back, 'til the end, ol' spinmeister buddy.

(for proof of this, see your reply to this comment below, which I can promise with 100% certainty you will end up typing and posting) Yoink!--stole your good at this original bit!
posted by y2karl at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2003


This is awesome! I don't think one American has owned another as badly as I own you since 1862. But I'm starting to feel guilty, it's not right taking advantage of one's elders. Tell ya what, y2karl: I'll just post this last message, and then I order you to respond (which you are powerless to resist, since I own you), and then I'll let it drop and you can have the last word, which you have to have, or else the lastworditis will kill you. Knock yourself out, chuckles, and for one last time in this thread: I own you! Think I'm wrong? try and resist posting a follow up... when you fail, which you already have whether you know it or not, sit back, obsessively checking this thread every few minutes to see my response...
posted by jonson at 11:26 AM on July 9, 2003


I told you I would outlast you and I will. Indeed, I'm hardly finished here.

Despite your lip licking zeal, trying to plausibly present yourself in in the most self flattering way possible crumbled days ago, jonson. You own me--oh right. That is so true. You just keep on spinning it, despite the fact that a mere short scroll upwards puts the lie to your whole above-it-all, way too cool act. Yet you keep working at the same tired old bits.

I have yet to present my annotated weeks long jonson follows rushmc from thread to thread to this thread harassment campaign. You are the all time champion grudge holder and harasser here, the best example of this thread's topic--and I am going to lay it out here in detail as the capper, my little spinmeister.

I intend to set in stone here a permanent synoptic record of the jonson of whom riffola wrote above,

Oh I should add that I was talking about jonson based on what I know about him outside of MeFi/MeTa. As for things he's said in this thread... sigh all I can say is that there is a nice guy in there somewhere, if you are lucky you've met him, if not, I am sorry,

just to have it link ready and on hand, should the need arise to demonstrate the jonson schtick.

And I know I can count on your help with this. You've done so much already, these last couple of days--that rising note of desperation is something sweet to see.
posted by y2karl at 2:36 PM on July 9, 2003


Jesus Christ, jonson, you are a piece of work. I just have to do a little prequel here to note that your campaign against rushmc starts back on.... DECEMBER 13, 2002 ? I knew you were being a hypocrite as well as a trouble maker here, but man, nearly seven, count them, 7 months of hounding and smearing another member? Seven months of having a revenge boner against rushmc--you must have come close to passing out a few times from the blood loss to your conscience.

Oh, I forgot--you don't have one...

jonson, I do believe you are the champion, the #1 beady eyed grudgeholder in MetaFilter history!

I can't hold a candle to that, no one here can. And, man, you start dishing it out to other people before you reach ten comments here. Like I said--a piece of work.

Boy, this is getting very interesting. Details at 11:09 PM
Tomorrow.
posted by y2karl at 9:44 AM on July 10, 2003


Upon further examination, jonson, your gratuitous attacks on rushmc, interspersed with phony apologies when other members called you out on them, span across seven months of the nearly twelve you've been a member. And they still go on, considering the clever way you worked the slurs for which you got busted here in this thread back into your continuing attack on rushmc on your user page. I hold a grudge? Perhaps--but I don't hold a candle to you. No one does.

Yes, your user page is a work of art--how did jonson put it once? a schadenfreude that borders on malice--except you went off the deep end, malice wise, with rushmc. You start attacking him in January and keep it up until late in this thread until you dimly realize it's making people dislike you. Well, now you have this alternate user page where people can remember you.

Things are cool with you and rushmc? Hmmm... Not on your part, judging from your continuing gratuitous slur on your get even page.

What I can't figure is this--rushmc never did a thing to you. All this has been purely your gift to him and us. Yes, you've really brought quite the gift to this place--a poison pen with a bottomless inkwell.
posted by y2karl at 11:08 PM on July 14, 2003


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